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The Fairy Tale Revisited

Barack Obama is having a press conference this morning and it is being dominated by questions about the 'race card.' That makes it a good press conference for McCain. The big hook for McCain is the fact that Obama supporters disgracefully smeared Bill and Hillary Clinton during the Democratic primaries. The McCain riposte to pushback from Obama supporters is "that's what you said about Bill and Hillary Clinton." Take Bob Herbert for instance. Today he writes:

John McCain didn’t appreciate them. RACE CARD! RACE CARD! The McCain camp started bellowing, and it hasn’t stopped since. With great glee bursting through their feigned outrage, the campaign’s operatives and the candidate himself accused Senator Obama of introducing race into the campaign — playing the race card, as they put it, from the very bottom of the deck. . . . Senator McCain is the head of a party that has viciously exploited race for political gain for decades. He’s obviously more than willing to continue that nauseating tradition.

Here's the problem -- Bob Herbert spent the entire Democratic primary accusing Bill and Hillary Clinton of having no class, being persons without scruples and of playing the race card. He is now disqualified from pushing back against John McCain's race baiting and disgraceful campaign. Indeed, McCain welcomes a blast from Bob Herbert. Why? Because he can quote what Herbert wrote and said about Bill and Hillary Clinton. More . . .

A few examples. This one:

The Clinton camp knows what it’s doing, and its slimy maneuvers have been working. . . . [I]t’s legitimate to ask, given the destructive developments of the last few weeks, whether the Clintons are capable of being anything but divisive. The electorate seems more polarized now than it was just a few weeks ago, and the Clintons have seemed positively gleeful in that atmosphere.

It makes one wonder whether they have any understanding or regard for the corrosive long-term effects — on their party and the nation — of pitting people bitterly and unnecessarily against one another. What kind of people are the Clintons? . . .

Or this one:

Class is not a Clinton forte. But it’s one thing to lack class and a sense of grace, quite another to deliberately try and wreck the presidential prospects of your party’s likely nominee — and to do it in a way that has the potential to undermine the substantial racial progress that has been made in this country over many years.

The Clintons should be ashamed of themselves. But they long ago proved to the world that they have no shame.

These are just a couple of examples and this was seen all over Obama World, from Bob Herbert, Eugene Robinson, to Jim Clyburn to bloggers like Josh Marshall, Kevin Drum, Matt Yglesias, Ezra Klein, etc.

The fairy tale has come home to roost. All the dirty work these folks did during the primaries to slime Bill and Hillary Clinton is now fodder for John McCain. Of course he was going to going dirty, ugly, negative and would race bait. The wonder is none of these folks realized that when they said and did anything about Bill and Hillary Clinton to favor Obama that all of it would come back to haunt Obama in the general election.

Of course their behavior was disgraceful, but more than that, it harms Barack Obama now.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

(Comments over 200, thread closed.)
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    Well.... (5.00 / 8) (#2)
    by lambertstrether on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:46:23 AM EST
    ... you're obviously a racist.

    NOTE For the irony challenged: If you think this note does not apply to you, consider that it might.

    You're hurting my brain this morning! (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by BoGardiner on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:38:59 AM EST
    My cup of irony never runneth over so well as yours.  Especially before I've had my morning coffee... after you've kept me up too late with another masochistic headpounding about such trivia as Obama's seismic shift on offshore drilling.  

    [ Parent ]
    The money quote: (4.75 / 12) (#203)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:13:36 AM EST
    "If, in order to get that passed, we have to compromise in terms of a careful, well thought-out drilling strategy that was carefully circumscribed to avoid significant environmental damage -- I don't want to be so rigid that we can't get something done."

    I guess the real fairy tale is that Obama will take a principled stand on anything.

    Sigh.

    [ Parent ]

    Double points for Irony (5.00 / 15) (#3)
    by ruffian on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:53:08 AM EST
    because when they weren't writing about the Clintons' horrible racism, they were writing about the horrible Clintons saying things about Obama that McCain could use against him in the general election, eg. hadn't crossed the CiC threshold, etc. (all the things McCain would have obviously used anyway).  

    It took them to give him the ammo that he would not have otherwise had.

    Can I be forgiven one mordant chuckle?

    Good point (5.00 / 9) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:58:09 AM EST
    It turns out Obama supporters have handed McCain  his most potent GE weapon.

    It is worthy of a post. I will do one later and credit to ruffian for thinking of it.

    [ Parent ]

    Hey, thank you (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by ruffian on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:02:29 AM EST
    You will do it more justice than I can.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama has really (5.00 / 11) (#180)
    by TruthSayer on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:02:40 AM EST
    You keep saying yesterday and today that McCain is playing the race card but fail to mention what we all know that it is Obama who brought up the topic that McCain will go after his race. That's the reverse race card and Obama was trying to smear McCain as a racist when McCain did nothing to deserve that.

    Why is it you don't mention that it was Obama that instigated this race thing and is playing the race card - not his supporters.

    And yesterday a number of posters who disagreed with your take that McCain was the one playing the race card asked you to explain why it was him and not Obama doing so. You said you would do that but have not. In fact you are here today blogging the same false myth as yesterday.

    Obama is the one who played the race card in the same way that he did against Clinton and you are giving him a pass. Why?

    [ Parent ]

    The bigger irony (5.00 / 11) (#98)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:15:15 AM EST
    to me is that the Very Serious charge against the Clintons initially, by Josh Marshall very strongly and by others in actual media, was that the Clintons were dropping subtle racialized hints precisely in order to provoke a defensive reaction from Obama on race so that he would end up having to define himself as a black man (which of course nobody had noticed up to that point).

    And now here we are in the general, and who starts talking about race with zero provocation?

     

    [ Parent ]

    Now, nobody noticed it in Iowa (5.00 / 9) (#127)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:34:30 AM EST
    even before the primaries began.  Nobody noticed a six-foot-tall African American woman in Iowa, taller even than the corn that grows there.  

    That is, not until Michelle Obama shouted out there that "Ain't no black people in Iowa!"  

    Before the first vote was cast.

    [ Parent ]

    Huh. Maybe McCain would (5.00 / 10) (#121)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:31:35 AM EST
    not have noticed that Obama never had a whit of experience -- in the military, on a committee, even one where he showed up -- for CiC.  That's what an Obaman in my family told me when blaming Senator Clinton, she of armed services committees and such, for bringing Obama's inexperience to McCain's attention.

    Ah-ten-shun!

    [ Parent ]

    Of course they wouldn't have noticed (5.00 / 10) (#133)
    by cmugirl on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:37:42 AM EST
    Republicans are stupid people, didn't you know that? Especially their strategists and people who run their campaigns.  They would NEVER have known to look at his record or his words without Hillary and her supporters telling them.

    [ Parent ]
    Haha (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by JimWash08 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:42:15 AM EST
    I do remember reading that RNC and 527 personnel had been dispatched to various key places (Chicago, Harvard University, Hawaii, the law firm in NYC where Obama worked, etc.) to mine information for a supposed 1,000-page dossier on him for the GE.

    [ Parent ]
    Sen. Obama could walk a very (5.00 / 10) (#5)
    by zfran on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:55:48 AM EST
    fine line between being black and white and go back to his theme (way back before the primaries)of being post-racial. He seems to only want to play up the black side. Of course, he may lose some AA votes, but hey, he may gain more white votes. I thought being post-racial was a good move to begin with but he has slipped away from that. If the Obama campaign can talk about McCain personally, instead of policy issues, why can't McCain do the same? The only "racially charged" rhetoric seems to be coming mostly from Obama's side.

    Ludacris still on his iPod, even though Obama said (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by catfish on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:08:19 AM EST
    he was concerned about his daughters hearing those types of lyrics (but Ludacris is a "great talent" and a "great businessman.) Notice they had a spokesperson denounce the lyrics of the latest rap, where he called Hillary a b**.

    [ Parent ]
    Why, Of Course (4.50 / 8) (#31)
    by JimWash08 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:21:35 AM EST
    When a mouthpiece does the talking for you, you walk away from the issue unscathed.

    Obama, himself, should have come out against Ludacris' ludicrous raps if he really felt strongly about its harsh and demeaning implications.

    Reminds me when he dealt ever-so-lightly with Bernie Mac and some stupid comments he made at a Chicago fundraiser recently. T'was basically a slap on the wrist.

    [ Parent ]

    It was - that was bad. Just kidding. (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by catfish on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:49:42 AM EST
    Stuff like that makes my blood boil. Cannot explain it.

    [ Parent ]
    " Just messing with you man" (5.00 / 3) (#177)
    by Andy08 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:02:06 AM EST
    is what what Obama told Bernie Mac after the weak attempt to ... (not sure to what.).

    [ Parent ]
    Here's the 411 (5.00 / 3) (#194)
    by JimWash08 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:07:13 AM EST
    That's why he might pick Sebelius (5.00 / 5) (#18)
    by catfish on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:09:10 AM EST
    he could highlight yet another facet of his bio, his typical white mother from Kansas. Mommy! You're my veep now.

    [ Parent ]
    "Slipped away?" Yes indeed, if you (5.00 / 3) (#99)
    by derridog on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:17:46 AM EST
    call deliberate and choreographed behavior designed to demonize your opponent "slipping."  I guess O just has no idea that he "periodically" meanders into the dark side.

    [ Parent ]
    About the "fairy tale" (5.00 / 13) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:56:38 AM EST
    From Sean Wilentz:

    The Obama campaign's "fairy tale" gambit was particularly transparent. Commenting on Obama's explanation of why he is more against the war in Iraq than Hillary Clinton, and disturbed by the news media's failure to report Obama's actual voting record on Iraq in the Senate, the former president referred to what had become the conventional wisdom as a "fairy tale" concocted by Obama and his supporters. Time to play the race-baiter card! One of Obama's most prominent backers, the mayor of Atlanta, Shirley Franklin, stretched Clinton's remarks and implied that he had called Obama's entire candidacy a fairy tale. (The mayor later coyly told a reporter for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that she had not intended to criticize Clinton: "Surely you don't mean he's the only one who can use the phrase 'fairy tale,'" Franklin said, in a tone that the reporter described as "mock indignation.") Appearing on CNN, one of its pundits, Donna Brazile, hurled the wild charge that Clinton had likened Obama to a child. "And I will tell you," she concluded, "as an African American I find his words and his tone to be very depressing." With those kinds of remarks--"as an African American"--the race card and the race-baiter card both came back into play. Although Brazile is formally not part of Obama's campaign, her comments made their way to the South Carolina memo, offered as evidence that Clinton's comment was racially insensitive.



    Ah, the greatest hits (5.00 / 18) (#8)
    by ruffian on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:01:22 AM EST
    This is when Obama lost me as a supporter - he did nothing to shut this down, in fact he and Michelle encouraged it.

    He did not lose me as a voter, but as a money-giving, time-spending supporter. Since i live in Florida, my money would be more useful than my vote.

    I just mention this because I want it clear that actions have consequences.


    [ Parent ]

    For a supposedly "post-racial" candidate (5.00 / 12) (#93)
    by BernieO on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:11:43 AM EST
    he sure goes out of his way to inflame racial tensions. And tolerates others doing so, too, (like Rev. Wright) if it benefits him. I cannot imagine Colin Powell pulling this kind of garbage. I wish he would call up Barack and chew him out and threatened to publicly criticize him if he doesn't stop playing the "victim of racism" card.
    I know several people who are afraid to speak honestly now or write letters to their newspaper criticizing Obama because they are afraid their AA coworkers and friends will think they are racist. I assume that was Axelrod and O's intentions because I cannot believe they really think people like the Clintons are racist.

    [ Parent ]
    Good thing (5.00 / 3) (#107)
    by pie on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:22:27 AM EST
    no one can see how we vote then, isn't it.

    [ Parent ]
    Your vote would help. How can you vote for him (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by derridog on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:21:20 AM EST
    when you see so clearly what he is doing?

    [ Parent ]
    Have you noticed how Michelle and BO (4.36 / 11) (#162)
    by Shainzona on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:54:05 AM EST
    slip out of their "Harvard diction" into AA speak when they appear before certain audiences?  I remember seeing one video of Michelle (I think in SC) when you would have thought she was right off the streets of some big city, talking about "folks" and "you know".

    They are quite a pair of actors/frauds.

    [ Parent ]

    But when (5.00 / 3) (#227)
    by BackFromOhio on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:24:19 AM EST
    Hillary does it, the media calls her out.

    [ Parent ]
    Sean Wilentz (5.00 / 4) (#183)
    by Andy08 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:03:44 AM EST
    wrote repeatedly about this during the primary.
    They were all excellent pieces.

    I wish they were quoted, posted and reposted during the primary...

    [ Parent ]

    I thought you said you disagreed (none / 0) (#10)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:05:20 AM EST
    with Wilentz on that?

    [ Parent ]
    In fact (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:09:21 AM EST
    I think I blogged as much as anyone about the fact that Obama the Senator had the same record on Iraq as Hillary clinton. They were both too timid.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes. You did. (none / 0) (#109)
    by derridog on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:22:47 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    On the fairy tale? (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:07:25 AM EST
    Never.

    I disagree with Wilentz that Bill Clinton's mention of Jesse Jackson was not racial. He was attempting to diminish Obama's win in South Carolina and used Jackson as the comparison. It was very wrong of Clinton to do that.

    [ Parent ]

    Gotcha (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:08:42 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Jesse Jackson, Himself, Didn't Think So When Asked (5.00 / 6) (#26)
    by JimWash08 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:15:37 AM EST
    about the comment.

    He was attempting to diminish Obama's win in South Carolina and used Jackson as the comparison.


    [ Parent ]
    But he was reacting to the storyline (5.00 / 14) (#108)
    by BernieO on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:22:36 AM EST
    that was being pushed in the media that Obama's win in SC was amazing, when in fact it was anything but. It was nothing new for an AA candidate to win there since African Americans are the largest demographic group in the SC democratic party, and black candidates can easily win in that state's primaries.
    I remember being shocked to see just how poorly Obama had done with the white voters, coming in dead last behind Edwards and Clinton, and that media was ignoring this important sign of potential weakness in favor of acting like this win was strong evidence for Obama's viability as a candidate in the GE. Convincing the SD's of this was a way to undermine Clinton's support with them, so perception of GE strength was extremely important.

    I still do not see what was wrong with Bill pointing this out, except for the fact that by then he should have known that the media would spin it to make him look bad. Using overwhelming support from a demographic group that only makes up 12-13% of the US population to prove a candidate's will be strlong in the GE is just silly, especially when that candidate's opponent is favored by women who are the largest group in the country at +50%.

    [ Parent ]

    Exactly. I entirely disagree with BTD (5.00 / 16) (#136)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:40:16 AM EST
    and others on this who saw it as racial.

    When Clinton won in states with women governors, women in Congress, etc., it was pointed out that women did well in those states.  (Of course, when she pointed out that she was up against in the states of Iowa and Mississippi with their sorry records on electing women, she was being bad bad bad for pointing it out.  And NO one, not even Clinton, pointed out how much she was up against it in Wisconsin, the last state to send a woman to Congress -- not until 1999.)

    [ Parent ]

    Reactive Campaign Tactics (4.91 / 12) (#164)
    by BackFromOhio on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:54:55 AM EST
    Those of you who have the chronology down pat -- I'm asking if focusing on every little thing the Clintons so as to be able to call the Clintons out for playing the race card wasn't a strategy of the Obama campaign for solidying the AA and "faculty lounge" bases to win the primaries? It seems to me it was and, unfortunately, the Clintons were caught unaware until it was too late. If the Dems are doing this now as a strategy to win the GE, imo, it will continue to backfire.  

    [ Parent ]
    It was. It was also very wrong of (5.00 / 11) (#111)
    by masslib on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:25:17 AM EST
    Obama to run around SC and imply to african american audiences that the Clintons were trying to "hoodwink", "bamboozle" and play them the ole "hokey doke".  I think BC was pissed and he handled it poorly.

    [ Parent ]
    He Did That In S.C. Too? (5.00 / 4) (#135)
    by JimWash08 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:38:41 AM EST
    I thought he did that in Alabama and Louisiana before the primaries in those states.

    I distinctly remember him saying that at a pre-Primary rally in Alabama and the CNN reporter pointed out how it was the one time she hardly saw any white voters in the auditorium.

    So, it seemed quite apt for him to use those words then.

    But in S.C.? Wow, that is really low and despicable of him. Urgh.

    [ Parent ]

    Yes, he did it in SC, with great abundance. (5.00 / 5) (#157)
    by masslib on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:49:54 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Indeed in SC (5.00 / 7) (#192)
    by Andy08 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:06:52 AM EST
    is where it started full blown. Remember the
    Obama campaign sent to reporters in SC labeling Bill Clinton as racist? Russert brought it up
    later on on one of the debates.

    [ Parent ]
    Similar Tactics (5.00 / 2) (#206)
    by BackFromOhio on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:14:13 AM EST
    Isn't the campaign using similar tactics now against McCain with not so subliminal code words for "he's too old"?

    [ Parent ]
    I will always respectfully disagree on this (5.00 / 17) (#114)
    by Jjc2008 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:26:52 AM EST
    Comparing a black candidate to a black candidate is no different to comparing a woman to a woman.  The next woman that runs a successful campaign will be compared to Hillary.  Some will probably scream sexism and I will disagree (though I don't imagine I will still be alive to see such a thing).  
    Comparing Bill Clinton to Jimmy Carter because they were both southern white men was logical.

    One's ethnicity is as much a commonality as ones accent, religion, regional origins, gender are used because statistically there is a reason.  An AA democratic candidate will have some different appeal or non-appeal to certain groups but a common appeal or non appeal with some groups.  Just like having a southern accent might.  Just like being a northeaster white male.  Just like being catholic.  I guarantee that the next time a catholic runs close to winning the WH, he/she will be compared to JFK, particularly in how he/she does in the south.

    Yes, it was racial but not racist.  The Obama campaign and/or its surrogates made it racist and I found that quite insulting to Jesse Jackson and all the positive gains he made for the African American community over the years.  I know Jesse has made some mistakes and gaffes  But at the same time, Jesse made people thing, made them feel uncomfortable enough to rethink some things.  He pushed the envelope.   And yes as much as that alienates some it also brings issues of race to a point of discussion at a time where people were way less open to change than they are now.  
    Just my point of view.

    [ Parent ]

    I agree it was deeply insulting to Jackson (5.00 / 15) (#153)
    by BernieO on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:48:06 AM EST
    that people acted as if comparing Obama in any way to Jesse was comparable to comparing him to someone like Hitler, or maybe a pedophile. At the time I was shocked that Obama said nothing to walk this back a little. When Jackson made his infamous castration comment I immediately assumed his anger was rooted in the fact that Obama had stood by and allowed the media and his supporters to talk about Jackson in this incredibly humiliating way as if he were some kind of monster.
    I, too, have issues with some of the stupid things Jesse has done, but he has also worked his entire life to improve life for the African American community and has made a real difference. For him to see his own community allow him to be dissed like that had to be excruciatingly painful, just as being tarred as racists was for the Clintons - and their supporters.
    The right loves to demonize Jackson because they hate that he has pressured American corporations like Coca Cola to improve their hiring of minorities and he has often succeeded. You would think by their reaction that Jackson had gone around murdering CEOs. All most people ever hear about are the dumb things he has done. But in addition to effectively putting well-deserved pressure on corporate America he has also preached personal responsibility to the AA community for years through his Operation Push something conservatives love to hear.
    Despite his obvious flaws, Jackson deserves better treatment than this.

    [ Parent ]
    Well stated! (5.00 / 10) (#185)
    by EL seattle on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:03:52 AM EST
    I agree completely that "Yes, it was racial but not racist."

    They say that when you're carrying a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.  This campaign is bound to have a lot of challenges for the Obama team.  Some of these challenges are not related to race at all.  Some are slightly related to race.  And some will actually be racist matters.  But for folks to cry "racist!" at every problem is as productive as using a hammer to fix a crack in a windshield.

    [ Parent ]

    If Clinton's remark wasn't racial... (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by Shainzona on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:57:29 AM EST
    then why was the reference to Jackson "wrong".  I've never clearly understood that.

    [ Parent ]
    Even if you know that a woman is pregnant... (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by EL seattle on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:09:59 AM EST
    ... it's wrong to mention that at the wedding.  

    There's a time and a place for everything , and it's impossible to look graceful when you're trying to extract your foot from your mouth.

    [ Parent ]

    You can only believe that if you (5.00 / 13) (#226)
    by derridog on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:24:02 AM EST
    believe that mentioning Jackson's name in the same sentence with Obama was an insult to Obama. Therefore, Jesse Jackson is, by implication, a person so low as to taint anyone associated with him. Is it any wonder that Jesse didn't see why this was an insult?

    I didn't either. It took me five minutes listening to the pundits talk about this before I figured out why it was racist of Clinton to mention that Jesse Jackson had also won SC in 1988.  Yes. Jackson is black, so, by mentioning him, Clinton was making note of the fact that Obama was also black, but Obama was constantly playing up his own blackness in spite of the fact that he's half-white and that he was running as the "postracial candidate."  In fact, he still does that. The person most concerned with Obama's blackness is Obama.  

    There's also the fact that the Clintons may be a lot of things, but racist isn't one of them.  Clinton was friends with Jackson and it's entirely possible he just made this comment without even thinking about it.  And then there is the question of who benefitted?  Why would the Clintons go into SC and deliberately alienate black voters?  Does that make any sense at all?  Who DID benefit?  Obama. By claiming racism, Obama took the black vote away from Hillary, when it had earlier been split. So please don't talk about the Clintons' dirty politics. Give me a break.

    In fact, I would rather have Jackson running today than Obama.  At least Jackson cares about blacks, the poor and stands up for things that I believe in and isn't just faking it.

    [ Parent ]

    and the revisiting (5.00 / 13) (#13)
    by ccpup on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:07:45 AM EST
    of how the media played the race card against the Clintons with Obama is yet another unfortunate and angry reminder to those who supported Clinton just what kind of candidate Obama really is and how the Clintons were unfairly and savagely maligned.

    Not exactly the best way to get all aboard the Unity Express.  Funny, though, how it looks like the underside of a bus.

    Huh.

    You know what they say about karma... (5.00 / 8) (#129)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:35:37 AM EST
    It is a big ole b!tch...

    [ Parent ]
    The haunting. . . (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by LarryInNYC on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:10:19 AM EST
    I have to say, I don't necessarily see this:

    The wonder is none of these folks realized that when they said and did anything about Bill and Hillary Clinton to favor Obama that all of it would come back to haunt Obama in the general election.

    I'm afraid that the logic and depth of political interest that leads you to your conclusion -- that if Bob Herbert et al make claims about racism those claims ought to be considered suspect and political on their face -- is not shared among the wider electorate.

    I agree with you that those claims launched against the Clintons were largely spurious and that they call into question the honesty and judgment of the people who promulgated them.  I just don't think the broader population will follow that argument.

    That doesn't mean this will be a net positive for Obama.  In the Democratic primary the claims may have helped him more than they hurt him (and I believe they did hurt as well as help).  In the general election the net balance may well be negative.  But that's not due to the primary history -- just to the fact that Obama has worked hard to present himself as a candidate for all people, not the quote black unquote candidate and anything that interferes with that narrative will probably trigger some degree of backlash voting.

    Talking about race is bad for Obama (5.00 / 7) (#23)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:12:09 AM EST
    Not what he called talking about race in one of his world's greatest speeches, but stuff like what we're seeing now.

    It isn't South Carolina anymore.

    [ Parent ]

    Talking about race in this way. . . (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by LarryInNYC on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:16:55 AM EST
    is bad for him.  Discussion of "race cards", "entitlement", etc is bad.

    But there is a racial narrative that I think would work for him, and that's the idea that middle-of-the-roaders have the opportunity to vote for this candidate who is centrist, masculine, Christian, etc and to receive some form of absolution for their own personal histories and the national history of racism.

    I don't know how Obama gets this idea across (you can't state it baldly, obviously) but that kind of narrative works for him, I think.

    [ Parent ]

    In other words, what I said. :-p (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:19:28 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Yes, but. . . (5.00 / 5) (#30)
    by LarryInNYC on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:20:27 AM EST
    I used more words.

    [ Parent ]
    The idea was (5.00 / 6) (#40)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:29:19 AM EST
    for Obama to foist the responsibility for the National Dialog On Race onto the American people.  Obama does his part by making a speech and he's done, quits, over, fini.  

    Clever.

    [ Parent ]

    what 's a good way to talk about race (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Katherine Graham Cracker on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:21:26 AM EST
    In way Obama kind of started a better discussion when he talked about his grandmother's personal prejudice but it was picked up and twisted by the media.   Race, as has been pointed out before, is always a part of American political campaigns.  The media (sic) as always merely covers the sensational and things they can twist but the rest of us could do a better job.  When the Clinton's tried to start a national conversation on race I attended a couple of workshops(for lack of a better word) and was sorry when the conversation ended.  I thought it was a good start at helping people understand racial issues and how to move forward.

    [ Parent ]
    The race narrative you propose (5.00 / 5) (#144)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:43:49 AM EST
    is the same assuage-white-latte-liberal-guilt undercurrent that did work well for him in the primaries.

    But now it's the GE.  That riff does not work nearly so well with the general voting population, since the major demos that are susceptible to it are already supporting him, and made up a much higher percentage of Democratic voters than they do the general population.

    Since that sub rosa meme has already been circulating for 6 months and has not been successful  in garnering any significant additional support so far, it seems unlikely to be a winner going forward.

    [ Parent ]

    Exactly. Only liberals have white liberal guilt. (5.00 / 5) (#152)
    by masslib on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:46:59 AM EST
    And some liberals don't see a vote for Obama as a way to rid them of that.

    [ Parent ]
    He doesn't have it in him, his memoir revealed thi (3.00 / 4) (#29)
    by catfish on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:19:58 AM EST
    he is very obsessed with race (and I cannot blame him.) But he IS suspicious of everybody. That's OK, I understand it, a few white presidents were probably suspicious of black people. And he talked about reparations at the UNITY '08 conference for journalists of color. I thought reparations were a fringe idea, but he brought it up in his law teaching days too.

    [ Parent ]
    Feh. (5.00 / 5) (#36)
    by LarryInNYC on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:25:38 AM EST
    When asked about reparations:

    "There's no doubt that when it comes to our treatment of Native Americans as well as other persons of color in this country," Mr. Obama said, "we've got some very sad and difficult things to account for."

    "The best reparations we can provide," he said, "are good schools in the inner city and jobs for people who are unemployed."

    Which is spot on, if you ask me, and certainly not a statement in favor of reparations.  I think you're treading on the Talk Left prohibition against spreading false information.

    [ Parent ]

    He brought it up (5.00 / 0) (#65)
    by catfish on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:51:20 AM EST
    at UNITY '08. What is he talking about with deeds? Can a reporter find out so we can put it to rest?

    [ Parent ]
    Agreed (5.00 / 0) (#70)
    by BoGardiner on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:54:20 AM EST
    There's enough real concern about Obama without making up stuff.  Let's keep it real.

    Would so prefer to see us debate the argument and not the potential derangement of the commenter.

    [ Parent ]

    I am FOR racial diversity (5.00 / 0) (#76)
    by catfish on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:59:34 AM EST
    we need MORE judges of color, candidates of color and journalists of color. This is a question that needs to be aired. What did he mean when he said this.

    [ Parent ]
    Carlos Mencia, a comedian, (none / 0) (#95)
    by Radix on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:13:53 AM EST
    already came up with this. Quite funny really.

    [ Parent ]
    The only thing missing from Herbert's (5.00 / 16) (#32)
    by Anne on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:22:14 AM EST
    column was the tag line: "I'm not Barack Obama, but you can be sure he approved this message."

    The only thing that makes me feel any better about Herbert's column is that probably the only people who are still reading him are people who are so in-the-tank that they accept what Herbert writes - then and now - as actual fact.  I made an exception today to see more than just the snip BTD provided, and even then, I could not get all the way through it it was so vile.

    I'm no McCain fan, trust me.  I listened to part  of the Q & A's from an appearance he made yesterday, and it was awful, just awful; I am no more interested in a President McCain than I am in a President Obama.

    But McCain's ad wasn't racist.  And just because the audiences Obama is delivering his they're-going-to-demonize-me speeches appreciated his "warning," doesn't mean Obama's motives and meaning were the purest-of-the-pure; his remarks were clearly designed to (1) float an accusation of something that had not happened as if it already had, (2) eliminate the discussion of race by appointing himself judge and jury on the whole issue and (3) effectively tell people the only way to make up for the consider-them-real-injustices-because-they-are-inevitable, visited upon Obama is to (4) vote for him.

    Post-racial my patootie; if anything, this campaign (Obama's) is moving us farther away from a true post-racial environment than we have been in decades, and people like Herbert are willing and active participants.

    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by lambertstrether on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:37:18 AM EST
    Anne:

    His remarks were clearly designed to (1) float an accusation of something that had not happened as if it already had, (2) eliminate the discussion of race by appointing himself judge and jury on the whole issue and (3) effectively tell people the only way to make up for the consider-them-real-injustices-because-they-are-inevitable, visited upon Obama is to (4) vote for him.

    So what's not to like?

    Clearly, "smart" politics.

    [ Parent ]

    Not so smart if people (5.00 / 8) (#94)
    by Anne on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:12:01 AM EST
    are calling BS on it, though.  "Smart" is when it doesn't turn around and bite you in the butt.  "Smart" is when you get away with it.

    No, this was not smart, it was all kinds of stupid.

    [ Parent ]

    And (5) to shut down legitimate criticism (5.00 / 11) (#115)
    by BernieO on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:26:56 AM EST
    by making opponents fear they will be portrayed as racists. I have heard several pundits say that calling Obama arrogant is racist, even though this was and is a common criticism of Bush.

    [ Parent ]
    Ah, must have been pundits here (5.00 / 11) (#141)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:42:41 AM EST
    coming to visit TL when they tied up threads with the same line here the last couple of days, saying that "arrogant" is racist.

    Unfortunately, I know a lot of arrogant folks.  Wait 'til I tell them that they're black.

    [ Parent ]

    Bet they will be shocked (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by BernieO on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:49:47 AM EST
    to find that out.
    Hilarious!

    [ Parent ]
    LOL (5.00 / 2) (#207)
    by Rhouse on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:14:30 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    obama's latest backpedal/flip-flop (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:37:08 AM EST
    is that McCain isn't racist, he's cynical!!


    [ Parent ]
    Ha. There is nothing more cynical (4.91 / 12) (#145)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:44:09 AM EST
    than a Chicago machine pol.  Aka Obama.

    Well, and the American voter these days.  I can see his cynicism and raise him a chip.  To match the one on his shoulder.

    [ Parent ]

    Cream....and might I just say OOH SNAP!! (5.00 / 4) (#200)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:10:42 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    This and the new book Obama Nation (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Saul on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:24:02 AM EST
    is not going to help either.  The author of Obama Nation was the Swift Boat author also.  He claims everything he says about Obama is footnoted with web sites to go to if you don't believe him.

    Oh, goody. (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by LarryInNYC on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:27:37 AM EST
    Web sites.

    [ Parent ]
    Sounds familiar... (5.00 / 4) (#130)
    by blogtopus on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:36:45 AM EST
    Oh yeah. "If you want to know more about his positions, go to his website!"

    Or, his books. Take your pick.

    [ Parent ]

    The interesting thing about how (5.00 / 12) (#37)
    by samanthasmom on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:27:00 AM EST
    this is playing out is not that the dynamics have switched - even if only temporarily, but how this will affect Obama's ability to combat any negative campaigning that John McCain might do in the future. Obama will no longer be able to accuse the Republicans of being racists and/or race-baiters and expect the burden of proof of innocence to fall on McCain. Obama is going to have to be able to show definitively that he has been the object of racism. As long as McCain keeps it subtle enough for plausible deniability, he has a free ride. If this were a game of chess, "Check" from McCain.

    What it means is that Obama has to go negative (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:29:12 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Yup - for samanthasmoms reasons (5.00 / 17) (#47)
    by ruffian on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:36:10 AM EST
    and also because the other thing McCain did this week was steal Obama's thunder by using all of the best images from the foreign trip against Obama. I'm sure Obama wanted to make some ads using the scenes of adoring crowds, looking presidential, etc.  McCain has effectively ridiculed all of that this week by using those images in his own ads.  I think he stole Obama's positive campaign.

    These guys are not playing around.

    [ Parent ]

    True. (5.00 / 11) (#55)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:41:30 AM EST
    It trivialized the trip and it was a pre-emptive smackdown of the meme of populism.

    Strike at their strengths!  

    [ Parent ]

    And Dems fight back (5.00 / 17) (#60)
    by ruffian on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:47:28 AM EST
    by whining about Paris and Britney in the ads.

    [ Parent ]
    Didn't obama compare himself to (5.00 / 4) (#142)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:43:21 AM EST
    Paris or Britney waaaay back when?

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, he compared himself to Paris Hilton (5.00 / 5) (#149)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:45:27 AM EST
    a week after he got into the Senate.  The link is on an earlier thread.  Haven't seen it in media yet . . . but give it time.  McCain camp has got it, I betcha.

    [ Parent ]
    Good Analysis (5.00 / 7) (#61)
    by JimWash08 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:47:45 AM EST
    Also, Obama did not get the "Bump" he and his handlers were expecting, and according to reports of various polls I've seen, not many thought the trip helped him beef up his poor foreign policy/relations credentials either.

    The McCain ads changed the talking points for the Obama campaign, which was a slick, but smart move.

    [ Parent ]

    I heard Candy Crowley on CNN (5.00 / 7) (#66)
    by ruffian on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:51:22 AM EST
    say something like 'Obama, traveling overseas to get foreign policy credentials....'

    I don't think that was the kind of description he really wanted out there.  We are in a world where not only what candidate do but why they do it are completely transparent.  JFK did not have to deal with that when crafting his image.

    [ Parent ]

    the Media (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by ccpup on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:53:40 AM EST
    is in the tank for McCain.  Not all of them, mind you.  But the people in the shadows who write the pay checks for the people who write the pay checks for the on-air talent or journalists have always been for McCain.

    You won't see it now, but, post-convention, it'll be obvious in very subtle and not-so-subtle ways who they're rooting for.

    [ Parent ]

    That May Be True (5.00 / 4) (#89)
    by JimWash08 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:07:58 AM EST
    To an extent. I also believe that Obama also has contributed to the bias.

    But, now that you mention it, the media honchos may have sought to prop Obama up during the Primary to pair him with McCain, bacause many have often said that Obama would be the easier candidate to beat than Hillary.

    But, maybe that's just the conspiracy theorist in me, all hopped up on coffee this morning, talking.

    [ Parent ]

    you're right (5.00 / 5) (#101)
    by ccpup on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:18:25 AM EST
    I always believed the Media has been in-the-tank for McCain and shamelessly pushed Hillary out of the race -- with a confusing assist from the DNC and her own Party -- because they knew she was the real threat, not Barack.

    And now, as we head towards Fall, you'll begin to see subtle and not-so-subtle indications -- especially during the debates and the post-debate coverage -- of the Media loyalty to McCain.

    [ Parent ]

    Media and McCain (5.00 / 2) (#211)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:15:35 AM EST
    I have to say I think you are quite wrong on this.  I see very little serious criticism of Obama, just enough to keep a veneer of credibility, but they're hitting on McCain quite seriously.  Almost all of it is on non-substantive stuff, to be sure, but almost nobody in media is talking about substance these days.

    Out of the thousands of talking heads I've seen on TV yapping about Obama's "dollar bill" remarks, I've heard only one acknowledge that he did, in fact, specifically and by name refer to the McCain campaign in one of those riffs.  They're twisting themselves into the very familiar pretzels to explain why Obama wasn't talking about McCain.

    Margaret Carlson, unbelievably, insisted that the "dollar bill" riff was Obama "reaching out" to white voters.

    [ Parent ]

    The media is mad with Obama (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by MichaelGale on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:26:39 AM EST
    I am not an Obama fan but they are pouting and sniffling like five year old petulant little brats.

    They are angry about his ducking them to see Hillary in DC and they are upset at few personal interviews and smarting over being treated like a orphan children in Middle East and Europe as they were fed info and had no access.

    The entire bunch belong in the fairy tale as people are watching:

    Media Darlings

    [ Parent ]

    oh wow (5.00 / 9) (#67)
    by ccpup on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:51:22 AM EST
    I had never thought of that.  Of course, the overseas trip was, in part, an opportunity to gather footage of Obama looking "Presidential" as well as "popular".  Now that McCain has used that footage against him -- in a clever bit of political jujitsu --, it becomes much more difficult to use not only the overseas footage, but also the crowd footage of events here at home.

    Obama will, of course, use it still.  But whatever positives it would have had have been blunted and the threat of backlash or of people responding negatively (or not at all, which is worse) is greater.

    I hate to say it, but the McCain camp ran circles around Obama on this one.  I'm reluctantly impressed.

    I wonder when the Obama Team will have it's Democrat Party Leader ordained shake-up?

    [ Parent ]

    Thanks for fleshing it out (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by ruffian on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:55:13 AM EST
    That's exactly what I meant.  Now whenever I see an Obama ad with the big crowds, I'm gonna be thinking  'huh - britney!' on some level anyway.

    I saw yesterday that McCain just made an ad buy to send those ads out wider.  They must be having the desired effect.

    [ Parent ]

    McCain is also (5.00 / 8) (#83)
    by ccpup on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:03:58 AM EST
    using YouTube for other ads.  And it seems to be working as the Views are impressively large.

    I fear Obama has underestimated McCain and his team.  In fact, I suspect that he and his campaign team got a bit cocky and thought it would be something akin to a cake walk against The Old Guy into the White House.

    But McCain and those advising him are old hands at winning campaigns.  I'm not so sure about Obama and his team as, in all reality, this is the first serious campaign Barack has had to compete in (losing his first race for Congress, then legally purging his opponents off the ballot for his State Senate Seat and then running against non-resident Alan Keyes for US Senate after knee-capping his Republican opponent by releasing his private divorce papers).

    Chicago politics ain't National Politics.

    [ Parent ]

    You left out using the DNC and their surrogates to (5.00 / 4) (#100)
    by Angel on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:17:53 AM EST
    take Hillary's nomination away.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama camp knew McCain would go neg (5.00 / 3) (#132)
    by catfish on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:37:18 AM EST
    they eagerly awaited it as a chance to raise money. Politico: McCain attacks rake in dough for Obama.

    But money can only go so far. It's like Joe Trippi saying the Internet can win an election. Like he wants to run some avatar for president. You need a candidate.

    [ Parent ]

    And Obama needs 3 to 5 times as much (5.00 / 6) (#155)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:49:23 AM EST
    as McCain to beat him, according to earlier quotes from Obama's camp on the game plan.  Just as Obama had to outspend Clinton by three to five times as much in the states in the primaries -- and even then, couldn't beat her in many of them.  The last time that worked was in Wisconsin, where Obama spent five times as much as Clinton, according to tallies here.  (And I think many other factors were as or more important.)

    Obama will not have three to five times as much available to him, from the fundraising so far -- in terms of total funds.  The DNC's fundraising is abysmal.  But the RNC has huge bucks to help back McCain, which -- with the public funding -- puts him ahead overall.

    [ Parent ]

    on another note (5.00 / 11) (#97)
    by ccpup on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:14:34 AM EST
    it's more than thinking 'huh - britney!' than it is linking Obama to being a Celebrity.  Most Americans (and especially those considered blue collar and rural -- voters Obama didn't make any in-roads into during the Primary and which are sitting ducks for McCain) have a low opinion of Hollywood and of vacuous celebrities who, in their opinion, don't work at all.  They're given a great deal -- millions of dollars for a movie and special treatment wherever they go -- for really doing "nothing".

    To effectively begin the linking of Obama to those who allegedly do nothing and are given great rewards in return is a brilliant plan.  Why?  Because Obama does not have the resume to back up his assertion that he DOES work hard and deserves the "prize" of the Presidency.  American know him as the guy with adoring crowds who faint when they see him.  

    And when you're a candidate for President up against an opponent who has a long record of service, you're on very, very shaky ground when you have to convince people you work hard.  Because when you start defending something, people automatically question Why you're defending it.

    I suspect there were those in the Obama camp who understood the direction the ad was leading in and tried to change it by insisting it was racist.  

    But, as they had grossly overplayed that hand against the Clintons in the Primary, it blew up in their face and, now, the ad has gotten more attention than it would have, the Obama camp is temporarily knee-capped in making claims of racism and John McCain has reminded everyone why Republicans usually beat Democrats in Presidential Races.

    [ Parent ]

    That's what I meant with the (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by ruffian on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:34:29 AM EST
    'huh- Britney' shorthand.  Should have been 'huh - another celebrity. '

    You are dead on about the resume.  He would not have had to make a transparently obvious trip to get foreign policy credibility if he already had a record to stand on.  

    [ Parent ]

    Another tidbit (5.00 / 5) (#118)
    by ruffian on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:30:02 AM EST
    This I heard in an interview with a woman on McCain's communication team yesterday on XM. They used the best footage from Obama's trip so that they could not be accused of using deliberately unflattering footage of him.

    That is what I call firing on all cylinders.  I could be wrong - I've heard most of liberal talk radio calling these the worst ads ever for McCain, and laughing at how good they make Obama look.  I think they are missing the point.

    [ Parent ]

    I think most liberal pundits (5.00 / 8) (#172)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:59:25 AM EST
    are missing the very, very important point that these ads are not aimed at them.  Of course they think the ads help Obama -- the ability to draw big crowds was a key selling point to them in the first place.

    [ Parent ]
    God forbid (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by ccpup on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:59:44 AM EST
    they ever catch Obama getting into an SUV with tinted windows clutching an iced coffee.

    That'd be all, folks.

    ;-)

    [ Parent ]

    I am not a McCain supporter by any means... (5.00 / 3) (#179)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:02:36 AM EST
    ...but isn't it striking that even Obama's opponents have to be careful to not use footage about him that is "too negative?" That's a very stunning PR victory that Obama has won, especially I think by accusing Clinton of dogwhistles in their campaigns. So they reap the rewards, but now also have to accept the repercussions of that strategy.

    [ Parent ]