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Time To Worry? McCain By 3 In Colorado

So say the Rocky Mountain News poll:

Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama are neck-and-neck in Colorado, solidifying the state as a key, swing area that will be pivotal in deciding who becomes the next president of the U.S., according to a Rocky Mountain News/CBS4 News poll released Friday. "It's a heck of a horse race in Colorado," said pollster Lori Weigel. "We're officially a purple state now."

. . . Overall, Coloradans favored McCain 44 percent to 41 percent, but the gap was within the poll's margin of error of plus or minus 4.38 percentage points. McCain also had a slightly higher approval rating, 55 percent to 53 percent, also within the margin of error.

This is the first time I have seen a non Rasmussen poll with McCain leading in Colorado. Yes, it makes me worry. Colorado is pivotal to an Obama electoral map strategy. I thought he would win it easily.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

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  • Display: Sort:
    Bound (5.00 / 0) (#1)
    by tek on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:43:19 PM EST
    to happen.  These people have "Respect Life" on their license plates.  

    Not all of us do..... (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by Jjc2008 on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:11:30 PM EST
    it's a plate one must order special.
    Don't put us all in that category.
    H*ll I live in the shadow of Dobson's Focus on the Family, and NEW LIFE and I am as liberal as it gets.

    Problem is my county is tres conservative.  In the years where they gerrymandered, they pretty much gave up this area to the rethugs.....while they gave Boulder to the dems.  

    Anyway, I think a lot of people like me, who feel we were screwed over in the caucus system are still deciding what to do.

    Parent

    Time to worry? BO has told Wes Clark that... (4.25 / 4) (#106)
    by Shainzona on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:54:31 PM EST
    his services are "not needed" in Denver.

    I am speechless.  

    Bye bye BO!

    (BTD go read Steven Clemons.)

    Parent

    Considering (5.00 / 10) (#125)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:12:20 PM EST
    alot of Obama's base chose him for his speechifying and the fact that the media wouldn't crucify him it seems counterproductive to criticize the General for using the media.

    If Team Obama were smart they would be looking at Clark as an opportunity. The guy has the national security credibilty and the connections in the media. It's a flippin' two fer.

    Parent

    And how many (5.00 / 3) (#151)
    by lilburro on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:35:08 PM EST
    of the slate of speakers appear often on cable shows?

    Clark isn't just any other surrogate.  As far as I know there's no "rule" that only elected officials should speak.  And I recall many online dreaming of his role in an upcoming Obama administration, if it would be possible to bypass the Sec of State rules and put him in the position.

    Leaving him out of the convention makes little sense, especially when one of the convention themes is HIS OWN MOTTO.

    Parent

    The "Respect Life" plate (none / 0) (#103)
    by echinopsia on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:54:03 PM EST
     is to commemorate Columbine.

    The anti-choice people adopted it as their own, but that was not the original purpose of the plate.

    Parent

    Really? (2.00 / 1) (#199)
    by Steve M on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 07:12:16 PM EST
    Hard for me to believe that one.

    Parent
    As I recall, and I lived there at the time (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by ruffian on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 08:07:14 PM EST
    The right-to-life crowd pushed this using Columbine as the excuse. They said 'oh yeah, its for Columbine' but it was obvious to  many of us what was going on.  Talk about your dog whistles.

    Parent
    A shoo-in? (5.00 / 11) (#5)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:46:30 PM EST
    Obama and everyone who wants him to win need to start seriously worrying about those undecideds, IMO.  The longer the campaign goes on without Obama giving them a good reson to vote for him, the higher the odds they're going to end up breaking for the familiar figure of McCain.

    This more than anything (5.00 / 11) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:48:13 PM EST
    has me rethinking my shoo in argument.

    I thought he was solid in Colorado, which to me meant he was solid in NM and Nevada.

    This is the entire Obama straegy, win Colorado, NM, Nevada and Iowa.

    Ohio is an afterthought for him. And Florida? Not even thinking about it.

    He should have picked Hillary.

    Parent

    Well, it's time for him the cut the vanity (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:51:05 PM EST
    projects. I wouldn't advise anyone to give him any money until he pulls out of Georgia.

    What's really concerning is that he's spent seven figures in FL to McCain's none and has gotten nowhere.

    He's finally going negative in Ohio.

    Parent

    Georgia is a joke (5.00 / 4) (#35)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:59:11 PM EST
    I can not believe anyone seriously thought about Georgia. I think the idea was to make McCain spend money there. McCain blew them off as he is doing in Indiana, RIGHTLY.

    Parent
    McCain understands (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:00:39 PM EST
    that the swingstates are the ballgame.

    If he's losing Georgia, he might as well just blow his budget on the catering.

    Parent

    Lol, totally agree (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by SoCalLiberal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:49:05 PM EST
    this whole Georgia and Indiana thing is foolishness.  I think it'd be great if we could win them but it would cap off the evening and most of us would be drunk by the time that occurred.  Swing states are where the election is going to happen.  

    Parent
    You're (none / 0) (#110)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:59:24 PM EST
    right about GA. He's doing overkill down here and probably losing more votes than he gains by advertising here.

    Parent
    That's interesting. (none / 0) (#165)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:00:52 PM EST
    I would be very interested in hearing why you think his ads are having that effect.

    I saw one here the other day - in DC - where he'll win no problem - and thought it was all over the place - the ad I mean - but I'd be interested in why you think he's having a negative impact in Georgia.

    Parent

    It's overkill (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:37:43 PM EST
    and the ads are unfocused. In one ad he makes false claims about welfare reform. McCain hasn't even bought one single ad that I've seen. Ras had McCain up here by about 10 which is probably right if Barr takes about 8 pts.

    Parent
    Target: Virginia (none / 0) (#174)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:08:45 PM EST
    (also the Olympics national buy.)

    Parent
    It was on my local cable CNN (none / 0) (#195)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:57:04 PM EST
    channel - it wasn't an Olympics ad buy - and this cable outfit I think only applies to Northern VA which is also a gimme for Obama.

    But the larger point was that the ad was a kitchen-sink ad.  In fact, I have seen it numerous times and there were so many things going on that I can't remember it well enough to recount it.  It was a Chinese Menu rather than a comprehensive story line.  I'll note also that my impression of the issues they addressed was that it wasn't like it was impossible to link them together to create a memorable narrative - more that each topic was tackled in a discrete soundbite that did not seem to relate to the one that came before it.  There was a part that related to economic fairness that stuck out like a sore thumb imo.  Like Seasame Street's "Which one of these things is not like the other"...

    Parent

    NOVA is ground zero (none / 0) (#196)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:59:13 PM EST
    You think Democrats can get away with not advertising in Philly if they want to win statewide in PA? Statewide margins matter, so you have to run up your base.

    Anyway, sometimes candidates will do national cable news buys so they can get buzz.

    Parent

    Philly and NOVA are not comparable (none / 0) (#201)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 07:42:44 PM EST
    at all.  If it is a national ad - fine - but if it is a local ad it was a waste of money.  This area is largely empty until school starts again in a few weeks.  There is no one around here right now and I have to tell you that it is pretty nice when you have to drive somewhere.

    Parent
    I think you're wrong about this (none / 0) (#204)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 08:10:20 PM EST
    It's important to be on TV early in the states you intend to compete in.

    Parent
    My mind is often in the gutter (none / 0) (#141)
    by standingup on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:23:58 PM EST
    I know you mean the state of Georgia but thanks for giving me a great big laugh when reading your first sentence.

    Parent
    The DNC should have (5.00 / 8) (#18)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:52:27 PM EST
    picked Hillary.


    Parent
    Java....they didn't pick her because she will (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:05:18 PM EST
    take them to task for all the screw-ups they have and keep committing.  And, it would just be awful if we actually got America back on track with jobs, equal rights, more money in our pockets, a balanced budget and such :):)

    Parent
    I don't think she would (5.00 / 6) (#54)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:11:58 PM EST
    Hillary's made her own fair share of mistakes. However, I do think there may be some control issues. I always get the impression that Obama would be far easier for the party powerbrokers to control then Clinton and THAT is why I suspect they worked hard to sink her. Couple that with the chance to appeal to bright, shiny, new voters. That's just my theory of course.

    Somehow Obama always strikes me as a Trojan Horse, rather than the Unity pony I keep getting told to ride.

    Parent

    stay off that Unity Pony! (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by ccpup on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:16:04 PM EST
    I tried to ride it briefly and came down with blisters and a rash that wouldn't go away for two weeks.

    Just not worth it, in my view.

    :-)

    Parent

    The may THINK he's easier to control (5.00 / 5) (#85)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:40:52 PM EST
    but I bet they've found out different by now.


    Parent
    I keep hoping (5.00 / 3) (#95)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:48:32 PM EST
    that all these are Obama's brilliant ideas, because it would really pain me to find out that the entire Dem leadership thinks like this.

    Parent
    My view (5.00 / 4) (#98)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:49:43 PM EST
    It was a bunch of Dem DC powerbrokers that pushed him to run and they have been pulling his strings. I truly see Obama as a wild card and the shifting I see to the right(despite the fact the country is screaming course correction) have me heavily concerned about the fate of the party.

    Parent
    I think you're right. (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:08:43 PM EST
    Something that few people really factor in here is how many years the Democratic members of Congress were excluded from power.  A lot of people who've been around for a while blamed President Clinton for the Republican Revolution and I think people like Kennedy decided that it was better for their personal sphere of power to groom someone for the Presidency than it was to have not only the Clintons, but also a more experienced politician who had the potential to take power from them.

    After the 2006 sea-change, there was a little reported Congressional surge of Democrats just bursting at the seams to get bills onto the floor that they had been only been dreaming about for the past 12 years.  Pent up frustration exploded into a lot of petty in-fighting from what I understand.

    Parent

    Yes! (none / 0) (#175)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:10:17 PM EST
    That's been my impression as well.  Not from any huge things (outside of moving HQ to Chicago), but Dean seems to have been sent off on a bus tour promoting registration instead of handling DNC business, Pelosi seems to be a bit behind the curveball on major Obama announcements (drilling, Hillary in nomination), certainly the platform has been highly Obamacized, and clearly the convention speakers and agenda has as well.  He's like the PoMo Prometheus.

    Parent
    BTD - did you hear Wes Clark is not (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Shainzona on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:56:12 PM EST
    even invited to be in Denver?

    Parent
    Maybe it will turn out I was correct (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by kenosharick on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:13:34 PM EST
    about Wisconsin as well. I still think my home state will be razor thin.

    Parent
    I don't think Obama needs Colorado. (5.00 / 3) (#131)
    by Grace on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:19:29 PM EST
    He has a 50 State strategy and maybe Colorado is one of the seven or eight he doesn't need?  

    Parent
    Oh BTD (5.00 / 3) (#139)
    by nemo52 on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:23:18 PM EST
    I never thought Obama would be a shoo-in.  I though Hillary could beat the republicans, though, and this just makes me sad.

    Parent
    Colorado (none / 0) (#169)
    by christinep on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:04:50 PM EST
    No Democrat is ever a shoo-in in Colorado. Perhaps, good press and other breaks from the press could help the Democratic team in Colorado. (Note: Udall didn't just alter his energy position here to include some offshore drilling because Democrats win easily in Colorado.) I think Obama can win Colorado.... But, the VP choices on both sides could slant that. Example: Maybe Richardson or Schweitzer helps (Richardson with Latino/a votes; Schweitzer with the west slope and plains populism.) Then again, Romney might help McCain quite a bit in Colorado and Nevada.  At this point, who knows?

    Parent
    and the dumber it looks to pick an (5.00 / 6) (#11)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:49:19 PM EST
    unfamiliar Kaine as VP if that is who it is. People can only tolerate so much change when they are scared.

    Parent
    Well, he's coming back to work (5.00 / 10) (#17)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:51:52 PM EST
    which may help.  It was a mistake even before the eastern Europe blowup, but that made it an even worse mistake -- along with his blowing it in discussing it when he came off the beach for a bit.

    Two vacations in little more than three months sounds too much like Bush, and this country has not forgotten that he was on vacation when Katrina hit.

    Worse than the Colorado situation alone is the larger picture for electoral votes.  Ten days ago at electoral-vote.com, the projection was that Obama had 316.  Now he has 275.  And the 13 tied votes, Virginia, are unchanged.  All of the pickup has been by McCain.

    Parent

    Late deciders a big problem for Obama imo (5.00 / 8) (#24)
    by davnee on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:56:15 PM EST
    I really don't think he can afford to be neck and neck with or just a length ahead of McCain come November.  If the primary is any guide (it may not be), then Obama's support tends to be overstated in polls, and late deciders tend to break for the familiar against him.  I always thought he needed at least an 8 or 9 point lead coming out of the conventions (preferably much more) to have a comfortable shot at winning.

    Parent
    Me too (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by SoCalLiberal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:20:29 PM EST
    I noticed that in so many states, Obama would simply flatline wherever the polls had him.  I remember he had a lead in Texas on the eve of the primary but was at 47%.  There was one poll that had them tied in Ohio on election eve at 44% each.  Similarly in Pennsylvania, Obama was at 45% on election eve.  

    We'll see if the general is any different.

    Parent

    Sorry (none / 0) (#132)
    by mbuchel on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:19:40 PM EST
    But your statement is just false.  There was no evidence of any Bradley effect or underperformance of any sort during the primaries.  If anything, the numbers show he overperformed the polling average during the primaries.
    See 538.com for the data.

    Parent
    that was a Democratic primary (none / 0) (#181)
    by bigbay on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:22:04 PM EST
    I think it will be much different in the general..

    I always look at the favorability ratings. If they don't jive with the poll result  then I think there's some deceit going on.

    Parent

    BTD (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:49:28 PM EST
    surely you didn't believe that Obama was going to carry CO? Obama seems to be following the same trend that Kerry had in 2004. He may not even do as well as Kerry did is something that you might want to consider. McCain hasn't even started on Obama either.

    I did and do (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:50:53 PM EST
    What worries me is that it is even close.

    Parent
    I never (5.00 / 8) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:56:43 PM EST
    thought it would be anything but close in an Obama/McCain matchup. I know people here don't want to believe it but McCain is a far superior candidate to W. and Obama is a much weaker candidate than Kerry. So even "with the wind at Obama's back" that tends to equalize things among the public. The sad thing is that of all the candidates we had competing Pelosi et. al. picked about the worst one of the pack to nominate.

    Parent
    Not time to panic (4.00 / 1) (#91)
    by AlSmith on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:44:37 PM EST
    Frankly most people arent paying attention.

    Obama is doing about as well as can be expected with an odd name and gibberish catch phrases.

    With the saturation bombing of tv ads that has been going on all year I wouldnt be surprised if they are ignored the rest of the way and dont move the poll meters much either way.

    The election will be probably be decided in September and October by debates and current events, which is probably the way it should be.

    [It would be nice if a block of 200 SD's got together and shook Obama before the nomination to make sure nothing fell out. The parallels between him and Edwards narcissism are a little unsettling]


    Parent

    Sorry (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:06:27 PM EST
    but I believed this back in 2004 and it's not really true. Obama has had a massive amount of press. He's really run a poor campaign since March. I doubt that the poll numbers are going to change much. I expect it to be neck and neck until the end with McCain squeaking into office. Obama spending literally millions down here in GA is beyond stupid at this point. If he had a 10 pt lead? Yes, it would make sense but he's losing here and even spending money in FL hasn't helped him.

    Parent
    Ga6th- I live in West Ga. (Carrollton) (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by kenosharick on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:20:00 PM EST
    and have been shocked at the Obama barage on TV. What a waste- I work and go to school on a college campus and even there see little to no support for Obama.

    Parent
    There's this big myth out there (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by SoCalLiberal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:04:02 PM EST
    that there are all these young people who just worship Obama and are chomping at the bit to vote for him.  I am not seeing it.  I think at the Ivy's and the private schools, Obama is a big deal.  But I don't think he's that big of a deal.

    Parent
    Please stop with the 'funny name' (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by honora on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:23:01 PM EST
    stuff.  Everyone knows who Obama is and the decisions are being made on whether or not the people trust, like and believe him.  I know so many people that really do not want to vote for him, but feel that they have no choice.  After McCain and the RNC finish with Obama, I think those people will vote for McCain.

    Parent
    Sorry! (none / 0) (#152)
    by AlSmith on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:37:45 PM EST
    Sorry but he has a funny name and that is a liability in politics. McCain is old and has a comb over. Face facts. I have a funny last name too that would hurt me if I ever ran for anything.

    Obama/Byah doesnt trip off the tongue, and they have to factor that in. Clinton/Biden does ;-)

    Parent

    Clinton/Clark is catchier ;) (5.00 / 2) (#161)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:53:16 PM EST
    Time to worry?.... (5.00 / 15) (#14)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:50:24 PM EST
    Many of us have been worried since the first cry heard 'round the world for HRC to drop out of the race.

    All this convention agenda information has me far more upset than a 3 pt. difference in one state poll.

    Was CO ever really a given for the Democratic candidate?


    Java....yer soooooo smart :) (none / 0) (#19)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:52:44 PM EST
    Thanks, Psstt (none / 0) (#25)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:56:35 PM EST
    Colorado has always been (5.00 / 10) (#22)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:54:35 PM EST
    a tossup. If McCain picks Romney, I've said many times I think McCain will win here. Romney trounced McCain in the Republican Caucuses.

    Colorado is far more than Denver, Boulder, Aspen and Telluride.

    One reason the Dems need to win here is to get Mark Udall into the Senate. That would give us two Democratic Senators. I'd also like to see Jared Polis win Udall's house seat.

    We have 19 ballot initiatives, including the "personhood" amendment that will bring the radical right out in force to vote in November.

    Obama's chances in New Mexico and Nevada are even less than they are in Colorado. I've critized that electoral strategy for months. The Dems need to take Ohio, PA, Fl and MI. These western states won't be enough, and they are very much in doubt.

    Udall is going to win (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:56:40 PM EST
    Bob Schaffer doesn't have the NRSC white knight this year.

    Parent
    I would (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:58:46 PM EST
    think that Udall could win regarless of what happens to Obama. Didn't that happen in 2004 with Salazar?

    Parent
    You got that right (5.00 / 11) (#59)
    by Jjc2008 on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:19:08 PM EST
    I am down here in Colorado Springs. YOU KNOW what that means......
    This county elected the most ignorant, pathetic, poor excuse for a congressman ever in 2006.  WHY?  I watched this man debate my candidate (I worked for Fawcett), and it was amazing.  An 8th grade student, a mediocre one at that, could have beaten Lamborn in a debate.  But the Christian Coalition would have none of it.

    I always knew it would be tough in CO.  But after what I witnessed at the caucuses and saw what it did to the "workhorses" like myself...the women who for years did the grunt work here..I saw the writing on the wall.

    I'm not a PUMA but I am not committed to THIS democratic party at all and every one of the women I got involved two years ago, and who were excited, are done.  Tired.  We keep getting kicked in the teeth.  It was bad enough when it was the rethugs.  But when our own party treats us like yesterday's trash, then all I can say is....
    have fun boys. I'm done.

    Parent

    Says it all. (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:25:08 PM EST
    Time to worry... (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by kempis on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:34:20 PM EST
    Jeralyn: The Dems need to take Ohio, PA, Fl and MI. These western states won't be enough, and they are very much in doubt.

    And I'm amazed that people are accepting PA as a solid Obama state. I don't care what the polls say; it's going to be a toss-up, just as it was between Kerry and Bush in 04. Kerry won--barely. And McCain is much more popular in PA than Bush was in 04.

    Yeah, I think it's time to be worried. But then I was worried when I realized that the DNC was hellbent on running the guy who probably would not win.

    Parent

    Romney (none / 0) (#184)
    by bigbay on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:28:41 PM EST
    I always thought Romney's strength in the West would end up giving him the VP nod. Also it turns Michigan into a toss up. And he has a lot of money.

    It's true a few southern fundamentalists might not vote for him, but those states will be Republican landslides anyway.

    Parent

    Agree (5.00 / 2) (#207)
    by IzikLA on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 08:15:24 PM EST
    100% with this assessment and, unfortunately, McCain has the luxury of picking his VP after Obama... He can gauge where he is going to need his strengths...

    Parent
    The Obama campaign has been weak. (5.00 / 8) (#26)
    by TheRealFrank on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:56:37 PM EST
    First, they allowed McCain to define himself in his ads as, well, anything he wanted: a "maverick", a war hero who is thus automatically a good leader, and even an environmentalist. Then they did a bad job responding to the McCain (and 527) attacks. Here in NM, the ratio of McCain ads to Obama ads is about 3:1 (!). Obama is getting pounded.

    Also, they have allowed McCain to look more like someone who is down with the people than Obama. His campaign's approach of generating publicity with big media events worked well in the primaries, because it is a series of events, and it was a good match. But it is no longer working, and they seemed slow to realize that.

    I can only hope that they get their act together after the convention, because if they continue like this, they will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.


    The Original Maverick (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:03:05 PM EST
    That's a good ad by McCain.

    Parent
    Yup ... (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:07:26 PM EST
    everyone claims Obama is the king of political jujitsu, but in that ad McCain shows he's pretty good at it as well.

    During the Olympics McCain's ads pop, Obama's don't.

    Obama really needs a new "sell the sizzle" ad, and a new attack ad.

    Parent

    Attack ad (none / 0) (#130)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:16:22 PM EST
    Heh. That's kinda funny. Team Obama got the vapors when Clark went on TV and went negative and made the point that military service did not necessarily mean that McCain would do a bang up job as CiC. I wouldn't want to be the poor person tasked with creating the negative ad.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:54:46 PM EST
    I suggested what he needs, not what he'll do.

    Parent
    I've watched alot of Olympics and I've seen (none / 0) (#158)
    by tigercourse on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:50:31 PM EST
    McCain's ads many, many times. I've only seen Obama's once or twice. I don't understand it, they both payed roughly the same amount of money, but Obama certainly isn't getting any bang for his buck.

    Parent
    I've watched enough Olympics and (none / 0) (#200)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 07:36:14 PM EST
    haven't seen an Obama ad nor a McCain ad. Apparently both think the Seattle area is already decided.  

    Although, there are lots and lots of Seattle area folks on this board who may have watched lots more NBC coverage than I did and report this differently than I have.


    Parent

    They both made national buys (none / 0) (#205)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 08:12:08 PM EST
    and I'm sure that the buys have run nationally on NBC. They were both on even here in New York.

    Parent
    Maybe after the convention (none / 0) (#37)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:02:40 PM EST
    and all the religious leadership, McCain will announce his VP as Romney.

    I didn't see any Mormon speakers scheduled at the DNC.


    Parent

    Ignore the polls (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by HonoraryClinton on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:03:31 PM EST
    Obama is changing the election map and the old models aren't measuring what we already know; Obama is going to win. These polls don't mean a thing. The average person isn't even paying attention to politics right now. After his vacation and the Olympics you will have two huge moments for Obama, the VP and the convention. Those are going to be big winners for Obama and also kick off the real election. The campaign is flush with cash and has a great online and ground operation. And need I remind you, Obama is going up against the human gaffe machine who has taken the religious vote that was a lock for republicans and somehow put it in play this year.

    Meanwhile John McCain is starting wars and running on a platform of promising bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.

    Soooo not worried.

    Is this kool aid or just snark? (5.00 / 6) (#41)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:05:16 PM EST
    Snark (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:07:25 PM EST
    I am sure.

    Parent
    :) I read it twice, then (5.00 / 4) (#58)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:17:22 PM EST
    slowly backed away. It seems serious.


    Parent
    "bottled hot water (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by jpete on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:21:14 PM EST
    to dehydrated babies" might be a clue.

    Parent
    sounds to me (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by coolit on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:49:54 PM EST
    like some of my friends who never followed politics.  were more into pop culture, and have been lured by obama into the excitement.  

    they pretty much parrot ideas that they hear from other people without thinking about them.

    that's what this guy sounds like.

    Parent

    I find humming a pretty little song (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by ap in avl on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:09:10 PM EST
    makes me feel better too.....

    Parent
    What happens to the polls (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by Little Fish on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:05:54 PM EST
    when Obama doesn't pick Hillary as VP? I know my mom is counting on him picking her. She won't vote McCain, but she might not vote at all.

    People who don't read blogs think he will (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by catfish on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:07:35 PM EST
    pick her.

    Parent
    I've been wondering this too (5.00 / 4) (#50)
    by davnee on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:09:37 PM EST
    I wouldn't be at all shocked if Obama gets no bump coming out of the convention.  I really do think there are a lot of Clinton voters and indies out there (not PUMAs,mind you,  just ordinary types that aren't real tuned in), who just assume she is going to be on the ticket.  What happens when she's not?

    Parent
    My mom assumes as well (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Little Fish on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:22:51 PM EST
    she insists he's picking her, she's just waiting for the announcement.

    Parent
    Obama: be courageous (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by catfish on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:06:58 PM EST
    obviously the superdelegates will not overturn the nomination to Hillary, nor should they.

    This suggestion is totally out there, but it was born from audacity: Obama could be the ultimate "different kind of politician" if... he... stepped aside, agreed to be Hillary's veep, told his followers she is the true nominee of the Democratic voters.

    Not gonna happen. But some of us can dream.

    Overturn what? (5.00 / 4) (#55)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:14:27 PM EST
    The supers don't vote until convention. Obama is several hundred pledged delegates short of the nomination.

    Sure, I think he's coming away with the nod, but he doesn't have it locked in place now. The supers should do what they need to do to put the best candidate on the D ticket to win this election. There's nothing to overturn. Nothing is set in stone, yet.


    Parent

    Agreed, but they (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by jpete on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:26:55 PM EST
    haven't looked too interested in the best candidate.  What they have been interested in is using their power to king-make.  And it looks as though they may be complete screw-ups.

    Parent
    Correct, and I, for one of (5.00 / 6) (#70)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:28:59 PM EST
    millions, will not be rewarding them for it.


    Parent
    Please. (5.00 / 3) (#176)
    by Upstart Crow on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:13:44 PM EST
    It would be disaster for HC to take over the reins at this point. She'd be getting a very late start.  Personally, I think it would be disaster to join BHO's Titanic. She should distance herself from the mess, and wait till after DNC heads roll in November. She'll come out with her head high and clean as a whistle.

    Parent
    Also, (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:08:21 PM EST
    this part is so wrong (5.00 / 5) (#65)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:26:13 PM EST
    and his agreement to a roll-call vote on Mrs. Clinton's candidacy at the convention should bring her disappointed supporters into the fold.

    First he blows us off and now they think a sham roll call is "it"?

    Parent

    the use of "disappointed" (5.00 / 7) (#69)
    by Little Fish on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:28:54 PM EST
    says to me that they really don't get it.  


    Parent
    heh, I missed that. (5.00 / 5) (#81)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:39:27 PM EST
    They REALLY don't get it.

    I wish I was just disappointed and had a decent other Dem to vote for. Sadly, neither is true.

    Parent

    This casual attitude will be to his peril (5.00 / 7) (#72)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:33:31 PM EST
    These bozo's really don't get it. We saw them deal from the bottom of the deck, we are abundantly worried about the lack of qualifications, judgment, and ethics in the party's chosen one.

    He wasn't the winner, he was annointed. That process belongs in a church, not in a democratic government.


    Parent

    CO evangelical votes? (none / 0) (#160)
    by jedimom on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:52:53 PM EST
    with things shaping up this tight, it would seem they need to focus on getting the 17% of the HRC supporters on board..apparently it was Leon Panetta tapped to bring us into the fold, but with comments like this I dont see that going anywhere fast, they seem focused on the evangelical vote instead?

    http://tinyurl.com/5onl85

    ..."There is a sense of entitle-ment that almost seems to be inbred," Panetta said. ....

    will the religious focus at the convention help in CO with voters?

    Parent

    Oh please. (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by Upstart Crow on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:15:28 PM EST
    Letting a defeated candidate be named at the convention is the usual courtesy. It was outrageous that this was almost taken away.

    BHO didn't do any big favors. He refused to commit an outrage, that's all.

    Parent

    Interesting article that perhaps (5.00 / 8) (#82)
    by ap in avl on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:39:51 PM EST
    highlights what's happening in Colorado.  

    I think people are sick of hearing "just words".  Wishful thinking, "hope and change" memes really don't mean anything when people are losing their jobs and homes.  

    This campaign is trying to coast in on an image.  Adding a halo of Christianity seems more important to them than addressing the real needs of the voters.

    Parent

    Obama has to talk kitchen table issues (5.00 / 5) (#153)
    by kempis on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:38:40 PM EST
    He has to dial back the broad themes and start punching McCain on specifics, like McCain's health care plan, which will probably scare more Americans than Obama's middle name.

    The common complaint is that people aren't sure what Obama stands for or what he'll do. Unless he can do what Hillary did and connect with voters on policies, he will not close this deal. In the battle of vague impressions, McCain may actually win by coming across as more substantive and less ethereal, thus stronger. Obama needs to convince people that his plans will make their lives a whole lot better than McCain's will.

    Parent

    Alternate Title (5.00 / 4) (#198)
    by FreakyBeaky on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 07:05:24 PM EST
    "Allies ask Obama to Be More Like Hillary"

    I could bang my head against the wall right now.

    Parent

    Slow-motion train wreck, that (5.00 / 10) (#48)
    by Anne on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:09:02 PM EST
    shouldn't be any surprise - he's having the same problem in the general that he did in the primary, exponentially outspending his opponent, but not seeing the results in the polls.

    At some point, it has to come down to one basic truth: he can't win on his own merits, and the only person who could probably help is the person he seems bound and determined not to choose: Hillary.

    So.  I guess we'll know soon enough whether Obama is capable of real political brilliance, and chooses Hillary for VP, or if he will reinforce the growing belief that his egotistical blindness convinced him he didn't need to, and he chooses someone else.


    Sorry, but (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by blcc on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:57:43 PM EST
    H*ll No!!

    How is picking Hillary as VP supposed to make me feel better?  

    Is it a similarly brilliant strategy to call me "Sweetie" after you grabbed my bum and pinched my cheek?

    Maybe I'm not stupid enough for political gamesmanship and consolation prizes.

    Parent

    Even if he picks Hillary (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:08:25 PM EST
    it'll look decidedly unenthusiastic.

    The whole convention feels like the purpose is fait accompli, a done deal - no discussion, no dissent, no discourse, no dialog, no conversation.  

    Parent

    Therefore....no deal. (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:32:58 PM EST
    Hey, him picking Hillary (5.00 / 3) (#171)
    by Anne on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:06:24 PM EST
    would not be enough to get me to vote for him, but I think it's pretty obvious that it's probably the best shot he has to win this thing.

    I've been saying for some time now that with the top of the ticket having such a high "Ugh" factor, there is no one - not even Hillary - who has a "Wow" factor high enough to offset it and make me feel good about the ticket.

    Parent

    Merits??? That's soooo status quo! (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by RonK Seattle on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:16:12 PM EST
    No. "It's old politics" ;) (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:23:57 PM EST
    Rasmussen of Tavis Show (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by samtaylor2 on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:23:45 PM EST
    I was listening to the Tavis show and they had Rasmussen talking about the poll numbers.  It was interesting in that he was talking about his numbers as looking very positive for Obama.  Regardless of the truth, it is interesting that these polling companies, can spin their product to fit whatever group they they are selling it to.  Lies, damn lies and statistics.

    ALso, there was an article in the Washington post today, about the metric that needs to be followed right now is the number of people registered.  The polls changing daily, it says, is not as interesting or important.  Does anyone know where this information is being tracked?

    Anyone who lived through 2004 knows (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:26:18 PM EST
    that the polls were more accurate than the predicted magic.

    Parent
    Sorta slow today (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by samtaylor2 on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:35:59 PM EST
    What do you mean by predicted magic?

    Parent
    Can't you rattle off (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:38:23 PM EST
    the reasons Kerry was really going to win, even though the polls said otherwise?

    My favorite: the cell phone only kids would save him.

    Parent

    Even Ned Lamont was going to win (none / 0) (#136)
    by RonK Seattle on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:21:40 PM EST
    ... from 10 points down, through similar neoteric necromancy.

    Parent
    I meant to write (none / 0) (#63)
    by samtaylor2 on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:24:42 PM EST
    Number of people BEING registered

    Parent
    Heh, sounds (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:24:54 PM EST
    really selfish to someone who has no idea what water rights are all about.


    I didn't realize (none / 0) (#87)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:42:19 PM EST
    that water rights could be influenced by the change in population.  In a humanitarian light, it seems just.  Another POV would be that more populous states would leverage more and more water for themselves, which is a competitive disadvantage for the less populous states - even if those states should have greater claim to the water by virtue of geography and hydrology.  

    Parent
    Inevitability (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by Demi Moaned on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:30:03 PM EST
    I'm worried. But I also see the arguments of the "What, me worry?" school and I can't say that they're wrong.

    What has bothered me is that even granting the "he's winning" arguments, is that the margin of his lead is so small in a contest that is clearly overwhelmingly advantageous to the Democrats. And it also bothers me that he is running such a conventional Democratic-style campaign, when an agressive challenge seems warranted.

    That said, I don't think anyone really knows what factors are determinants. What I do know is that whether McCain wins or Obama wins, the actual result will be seen to have been inevitable in the post mortem.

    What is the message that going on vacation sends? (5.00 / 5) (#75)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:35:40 PM EST
    That he doesn't care if he wins, and he won't fight for you.

    Obama needs to come off as if he cares who wins this election, and he's just not now.

    Parent

    If he'd fight for anything (5.00 / 10) (#79)
    by Demi Moaned on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:38:37 PM EST
    ... it would send a message that he'll fight for something-- vacations or no. To me Obama has done nothing to invalidate the classic charge: Democrats are weak and don't stand for anything.

    Parent
    There is a proven fighter out there (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:47:02 PM EST
    apparently willing to take on that role for him. Unfortunately, he won't pick her.

    Parent
    Demi - I can pretty much guarantee (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:56:02 PM EST
    that if the voting democrats allow the DNC and Obama to be rewarded for their horrific, anti-democratic behavior this year, they ARE weak and don't stand for anything.


    Parent
    Cutting off your nose to spite ... (none / 0) (#123)
    by Demi Moaned on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:10:54 PM EST
    So, what are you suggesting? The rewards and the punishments fall on the country as a whole-- far more than on the candidates themselves. Electoral politics is largely a series of binary choices, most of them unsatisfactory.

    Depend on it: If Obama loses, the post-game analysis will not attribute it to a failure to please us or anything remotely resembling the reasons you cite.

    Instead we'll hear endlessly about how Obama was too liberal for such a center-right country as this.

    Parent

    No, they aren't binary choices (5.00 / 2) (#166)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:01:21 PM EST
    McCain

    Obama

    Abstain

    Third party candidate (Barr, Nader)

    Write in

    There are far more choices then two. Now the results may be skewed towards the two choices but there are more than two choices.

    Furthermore the reasons people aren't supporting Obama aren't binary either. People aren't computer programs. The Obama campaign would do well to remember this.

    Parent

    And if he wins (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by tree on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:49:24 PM EST
    we'll be told endlessly that he had to tack right in order to win, and that since he tacked right to win,  he's going to have to govern from that point. I don't think there's any chance he will governed from anywhere but center right, but we will be told endlessly that that's now OK, and that all Dems should be center right if they want to win.

    In other words, it won't matter who wins. The status quo meme will support the status quo.

    Parent

    Or that we are all racists. (none / 0) (#179)
    by Upstart Crow on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:19:30 PM EST
    100% right! (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by blcc on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:02:57 PM EST
    No matter what happens on November 4th, EVERYONE in the country will wake up on the November 5th and say "Oh that was so obvious - we saw it/should have seen it coming a hundred miles away."

    (Or at least since June 6th)

    Parent

    This story breaks my heart for the (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by athyrio on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:33:43 PM EST
    Democratic party as well as Gen. Clark, for whom I have a great deal of admiration....

    the Obama campaign decision

    I just pray it isn't true....

    It's pretty much in character for the O-campaign (5.00 / 4) (#80)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:38:58 PM EST
    Clark is a busunder. He should have the seat next to Rangel.

    Do Americans like this characteristic in their leaders?


    Parent

    Wes Clark Jr. (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Little Fish on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:45:19 PM EST
    I guess that settles that. Thanks. (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:51:57 PM EST
    He even called to see if he was going to be asked to speak? What a diss to a fine man.

    Parent
    That's freakin' depressing. (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:04:06 PM EST
    Elise's responses to him (5.00 / 3) (#143)
    by kredwyn on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:25:06 PM EST
    are a bit sad given the vast amount of time and energy Gen. Clark's put into supporting any number of Dems who ran in 2006.

    Parent
    There are only a few individuals (5.00 / 3) (#146)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:32:07 PM EST
    who can remind me why I don't post there anymore.

    Parent
    seriously... (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by kredwyn on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:52:50 PM EST
    THIS is a sign of trouble (5.00 / 7) (#74)
    by nell on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:35:24 PM EST
    Obama tells Wes Clark not to bother coming to the convention - there is no reason.

    http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2008/08/obama_to_genera/

    Seriously, what on earth is wrong with this man and his campaign? He kicked out Wes Clark, snubbed Charlie Rangel, but let's not forget, he did reward the man who is responsible for Obama's nomination with his disgusting race baiting - Clyburn.

    It says to me that Obama is one of the (5.00 / 7) (#83)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:40:29 PM EST
    you're either with us or against politicians. He values his message for change and loyalty to him above any issue even if it costs him down the line. Same with the Rangel decision.

    Parent
    Another point of bushalike (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by RonK Seattle on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:24:53 PM EST
    Yeah he is, and I really dislike that (5.00 / 0) (#211)
    by SoCalLiberal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 10:57:17 PM EST
    He's basically the second coming of Bush.

    Parent
    Does anyone doubt (5.00 / 8) (#77)
    by Manuel on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:38:21 PM EST
    that if HRC was the nominee she would long ago have moved decisevely to unite the party.  She would have secured the base by naming Obama the VP.  Only then, would she have made her forays to the middle.  Obama continues to reach out to republicans, independents and evangelicals without securing the base.  Does he really think that he can take the traditional Dem voters for granted? I don't understand it.  I think this is making the race much closer than it needs to be.  I expect Obama like Gore in 2000 to turn towards a more populist message if the race stays close.  The problem is that I don't know if he can pull that off.

    I think you might be (5.00 / 8) (#84)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:40:30 PM EST
    expecting more from Obama than he is capable of delivering.

    In fact, I think most of his supporters are, too.


    Parent

    She wouldn't have needed to go (5.00 / 5) (#96)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:48:33 PM EST
    much to the center. She was talking about issues and that was bringing voters over to her. She was doing well with some of the religious vote also, without having to put together groups to focus on them and all the other pandering Obama is doing. Obama supporters claim nobody wants to listen to a wonky stump speech, methinks they weren't paying attention.

    Parent
    But Obama doesn't like (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:53:36 PM EST
    all that wonky stuff!  Or pushing the Democratic brand.  He likes pushing Brand Obama, which would be great if it worked and if it wasn't so susceptible to the GOP's attacks.

    Parent
    That's the confounding thing (none / 0) (#116)
    by Manuel on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:03:51 PM EST
    In going for the landslide, Obama may be putting the election at risk.  Of course he may get more moderate Democrats elected.  Is that what this is about?  That is what bothers me about the fifty state strategy.  It sacrifices depth for breadth and damages the brand.  I don;t think the resulting coalition will be very durable.

    Parent
    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by kenosharick on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:26:09 PM EST
    and Hillary would be running a more "traditional" campaign- going after Oh,Mich,Fla, Penn. She would be trouncing mccain in the electoral college.

    Parent
    It's just a completely different dynamic (5.00 / 4) (#155)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:43:09 PM EST
    we now have a personality based campaign where media drives the outcome.

    one can argue that's the way it will always be and there's nothing that can be done about it, but part of supporting clinton (for me anyway) was this idea that an election would be about something different.  a record.  not just ideas discussed in a contrived media environment, ideas given a fake sort of equal time on news shows, (which dilutes change as a possibility, turns it into a slogan, and reduces the contest to a series of character attacks and a popularity thing) but certain expectations that could be thought of as realistic.  You could say "I will vote for Clinton cause I believe she'll do this, this, this and this."  Not so much "I'll vote for Obama because he says he believes...... " etc. etc. etc.

    Anyway, I have a hard time comparing the two political styles.  to each their own.


    Parent

    I don't know if it is that different from 2000 (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by Manuel on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:56:38 PM EST
    The media, as documented, played a role then too.  This time around, the Dems have more of the media with them but they are not taking advantage of it to push progressive issues.  That is what's frustrating.

    Parent
    That's why the media is with them (5.00 / 2) (#167)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:03:29 PM EST
    In part because they know the Dems now in power won't push the progressive ideas too strongly.

    The question remains:  Why?

    Parent

    Yes. True. (5.00 / 3) (#180)
    by Upstart Crow on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:21:57 PM EST
    She would have done his work for him, and cleaned up his messes after him.  And she would be blamed when he lost. That's why I'm glad she won't be on the ticket. Let him fall on his own fanny.

    Parent
    I rated you a 5 (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by ccpup on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 08:06:26 PM EST
    because you used the often ignored, but oftentimes hilarious, word "fanny".

    What that says about me, who knows?  But thanks for the chuckle.

    :-)

    Parent

    Are you getting it now, BTD? (5.00 / 8) (#88)
    by goldberry on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:42:27 PM EST
    It doesn't matter how much of a media darling Obama is now.  He can't expand his base.  There are only so many African Americans in the country and he used them all up in the primaries.  His voters aren't going to get any bigger.  And now that the Dean Democrats have decided to cut the pie and through away half of it, he can't expand too much within the party either.  

    The only way the Democrats can prevail in the fall is with a unity ticket where Hillary is in the top spot and Obama is the VP.  That will unite the two factions of the Democratic base and allow for Hillary to poach moderate suburban Republican women.  

    Dean's dream of a 50 state strategy needs a lot more ground work.  This election cycle was not a good time to test a theory.  We have taken an almost sure victory and turned it into a nailbiter- with the help of the media, regardless of Obama's status.  

    WOOT!  How's that for sounding nutty?  

    it's like the business (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:52:45 PM EST
    that attempts to expand too fast and crashes, burns and ends up in bankrupt to boot. Appealing to groups of voters needed to be done incrementally and not at the expense of the base.

    Parent
    It's going to be Hillary as VP. (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Lysis on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:42:50 PM EST
    Mark my words.  They're waiting until the very last minute to announce it so the backlash online will be drowned out by the convention coverage.   The speaking slots will be switched for President Clinton and Senator Clinton, and that will be that.

    From your lips to God's ears (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:01:06 PM EST
    I'm tired of feeling like a refugee.

    Parent
    I don't know if they will switch (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by MichaelGale on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:01:35 PM EST
    but I think it will be Hillary too.

    Parent
    Talk about hope... (5.00 / 4) (#154)
    by lentinel on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:41:29 PM EST
    I think Clinton is the Obama campaign's only hope.

    Parent
    Yeah, right (none / 0) (#111)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:00:05 PM EST
    Obama has proven time and again that he has a far greater respect for men like Wright, Pfleger, Reagan, and Clyburn than they do for Clinton (Bill), Wes Clark, Charlie Rangel - just to name a few.

    The instant the convention has declared him the official nominee, the only place Hillary will be found is under the bus that brought her there.

    He's having a really difficult time holding onto his supporters. You really think they don't have a pretty good idea of how many millions of his dedicated supporters he will lose to that decision? You don't have to travel too far on the internet to know that the number of HRC supporters who will vote for a ticket with her in second position to him will not make up the loss.


    Parent

    I don't think he wants it to happen. (5.00 / 3) (#124)
    by Lysis on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:11:14 PM EST
    But I think it's becoming a necessity. The numbers are going south just as the decision needs to be made, and something dramatic needs to be done.  She's the only one who can bounce him back.

    I disagree with you about his supporters, who have proven time and again that they'll fall in lockstep.  It will be a brilliant political move that shows how gracious he is.  

    He's sent out every trial balloon other than Hillary and none of them have caught on. It's going to have to be her.  

    Parent

    I don't see him doing it (5.00 / 3) (#135)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:21:19 PM EST
    It would be admitting he needs her, and I don't think he sees it. He seems to be making some pretty piss poor decisions these days. Dissing Rangel and Clark for starters. . . .

    Parent
    Yes. (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:47:32 PM EST
    It's this year's political IQ test.

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:22:38 PM EST
    It is problematic that Obama's extreme loyalists (who really aren't loyal to much of anything at all but hating Clinton) consider Clinton as VP a dealbreaker for them as far as supporting Obama is concerned.

    .... that Obama's base would have a much larger problem with Clinton being VP than Clinton's base would have if Clinton chose Obama to be her VP....

    to me that's one of the defining characteristics of the unity problem.

    Parent

    Are you getting it now, BTD? (5.00 / 4) (#90)
    by goldberry on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:43:33 PM EST
    It doesn't matter how much of a media darling Obama is now.  He can't expand his base.  There are only so many African Americans in the country and he used them all up in the primaries.  His voters aren't going to get any bigger.  And now that the Dean Democrats have decided to cut the pie and through away half of it, he can't expand too much within the party either.  

    The only way the Democrats can prevail in the fall is with a unity ticket where Hillary is in the top spot and Obama is the VP.  That will unite the two factions of the Democratic base and allow for Hillary to poach moderate suburban Republican women.  

    Dean's dream of a 50 state strategy needs a lot more ground work.  This election cycle was not a good time to test a theory.  We have taken an almost sure victory and turned it into a nailbiter- with the help of the media, regardless of Obama's status.  

    WOOT!  How's that for sounding nutty?  

    Dean shouldn't (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:54:28 PM EST
    even be associated with the 50 state strategy amymore IMO. He gave up his claim to that when he choose to null and void Michigan and Florida this campaign cycle. It's now the 48 state strategy or 55 state strategy depending on whose campaign you are talking to.

    Parent
    Hope I'm doing this right: (none / 0) (#209)
    by blcc on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 08:50:23 PM EST
    He could lose Colorado (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Grace on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:45:18 PM EST
    but gain California which has had a long drought.  I dunno if that is news the Obama camp would want to scream too loudly about.  

    It's not the 3-point lead... (5.00 / 3) (#105)
    by Dawn Davenport on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:54:29 PM EST
    ...that concerns me; it's this particular crosstab from the poll, which I found in another story about the poll:

    "But McCain currently has an even larger, 8 percentage point advantage on one of the poll's key follow-up questions, asking respondents to say which candidate "shares your values."

    "On that question, Obama has a slight, 4 percentage point advantage among women. But among men, McCain wins hands-down, 52 percent to 32 percent."

    Ye olde gut check. (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:01:55 PM EST
    People vote partly based on it.  I think the first question people ask is "Does either candidate have a deal breaker?".  If no deal breaker, people want a certain comfort level with a candidate thus the "shared values" and "have a beer with".

    Parent
    I lived in the West my entire adult life (5.00 / 4) (#118)
    by esmense on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:04:45 PM EST
    (currently in Washington State) and have relatives in Arizona, Utah, New Mexico and Montana. (I've also lived in both New Mexico and Arizona.)

    Frankly, knowing the political culture of these states, I have never thought Obama's chances against McCain in McCain's home territory were quite as rosy as his supporters keep projecting -- and never thought much of the reasoning their rosy projections were based on (that, unlike they had done with any Democrat in the past -- or would do for Hillary -- right leaning independents and Republicans would cross over, in significant numbers, to vote for Obama). Anything is possible, of course -- all my relatives will vote for Obama. But they always vote Democratic.

    I've always suspected that many of those Republicans/Independents voting in the Western caucuses were voting against Hillary rather than for Obama. And that there was a very likely chance they would go back to the Republican party in the fall (as they did with McGovern in '72). Polling seems to indicate that is starting to happen now.

    Perhaps it IS time to worry, just as many of us... (5.00 / 2) (#149)
    by Larry Bailey on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:33:34 PM EST
    ...were worried back in Jan-Feb-Mar.  The latest Real Clear averages (and the trends) for the Battlegrounds are not something to pooh-pooh away in what was supposed to be a runaway Democratic year:

    Colorado -- McCain +0.5

    Virginia -- McCain +0.6

    Missouri -- McCain +2.3

    Michigan -- Obama +3.2

    Ohio -- Obama +0.5

    Florida -- McCain +1.8

    The last time a Dem. won Colorado (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:16:55 PM EST
    was 1992 when Perot took a quarter of the vote, mostly from George HW Bush.

    Colorado is not a blue state. Obama can win, but it will not be easy.

    It could just be the presumptive nonminee (5.00 / 2) (#186)
    by D Jessup on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:31:24 PM EST
    "What on earth gave you the impression that a black man would ever carry a Great Plains state in a walk?"

    Demos have been loosing CO since 92 and they have all been white.  

    The unraveling has begun (5.00 / 3) (#192)
    by Lou Grinzo on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:48:02 PM EST
    I think we're seeing the unraveling of the Obama myth.  (I'm not using "myth" in a negative sense, I hasten to add.)  Many of his supporters were less experienced politically, and they believed their own tales of wonder about winning traditionally red states, like CO, bringing a "new kind of politics to Washington", etc.

    What we're seeing is the electoral map slowly morphing into its old form, and a candidate who's not fighting back hard enough (paging John Kerry), largely because he's never faced a really tough Republican opponent, and refuses to make the obvious VP pick (Clinton).

    Unless someone shakes up the Obama campaign and fairly soon (as in right after the convention), I think 2008 is going to look a heck of a lot like a rerun of 2004.

    Really? (none / 0) (#208)
    by sj on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 08:30:10 PM EST
    After the convention?  I've been known to procrastinate so I have no business throwing stones, but then I'm not running for national office.

    He should get off the stick already.  Like last week or last month.  Since those opportunities are gone then he should do it tonight.

    But he won't.

    Parent

    Obama lost a long time ago (5.00 / 5) (#194)
    by Prabhata on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:52:36 PM EST
    Only hard core Hillary hater Democrats did not see it (Pelosi).  The TX, PA, and OH should have woken up who were snoring, but if that didn't do it, the huge loss in WV should have shook up all Obama supporters to move over to Hillary.  It's not too late to do that.  Brazile told us, old Democratic coalition (Hispanics and blue collar workers) that we were not needed.  Obama has told General Clark that he is not needed.  Obama talks unity, but he has no clue how unity is put together.  I hope he loses because anyone with his mentality should not be president.  Anyone with his background should have never been selected to be the nominee.

    I never believed he would win Colorado (5.00 / 2) (#206)
    by ruffian on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 08:12:28 PM EST
    After living there for 14 years (not an expert still, I admit, and I moved away 3 years ago). I know it is turning more blue, but I also know it has a long way to go in most sections of the state.  The Denver-Boulder area and some of the mountain towns will be for Obama, but I doubt he will do well in the rest of the state. As in the primaries, demographics are destiny.

    Not in this red state (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by lmv on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 11:45:20 PM EST
    Donald, I usually agree with you but you're wrong on this.

    My VERY white, VERY evangelical, VERY Rush-Republican friend told me last year she was going to look at Obama - especially if McCain were nominated - and so were many of her church friends.  They loved his 2004 speech.  They're tired of the war, pro-environment, and were excited about Obama's open religiosity.  

    She won't now but not because of racism.  Because she took that look and didn't like what she saw.

    For people out here, being self-reliant is a tenet of faith.  You're judged on your character, the company you keep, and your merits.  Unfortunately, a lot of people do consider your church to be a measure of your character and I'll give you that point.  But that's not racism.  

    For many of my Republican friends, Colin Powell was too moderate but they love Condi.

    I wish people in the blue states would stop the meme that Americans in flyover country are rubes.

    For the record, I'm no Republican but I'm not a Democrat anymore.

    TalkPUMA (3.00 / 2) (#210)
    by HonoraryClinton on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 09:07:43 PM EST
    Well this thread is pretty decisive. I was wondering if there was any way to rally together and unify our party, but I see now that the party is fine--it is an outspoken group of commenters here who are blinded by Hillary Hysteria that are the problem.

    The party isn't doomed because Obama isn't doing things YOUR way, but keep telling yourself that. I had hoped the unique focus on crime that Talk Left offered would be enough to keep this site from becoming a "Bitter Knitter" parody sprung to life, but that's not happening. You attack those you disagree with and beat the dead horse so much that that the ashes have long since blown away with the wind. Shame, because the group of commenters have destroyed what was a great site that spotlighted an important facet of democracy.

    I think Obama wins in a walk regardless of VP, but that isn't really important. That's just my opinion. You are entitled to disagree. It's just a shame you couldn't do so without the petty snark playground mentality. I had genuine hopes for unity because I still believe, and especially after watching McCain kill "The Maverick" for good on Rick Warren's stage tonight, that it was important to set our differences aside and focus on what we have in common in order to ensure we don't suffer through a McCain presidency. But it is clear that I will have to go else where for that kind of talk. Watching the Republican playbook unfold in these comments has been sad. I don't believe Jeralyn or BTD intended to see things devolve this way and it is shame it did. I remained a lurker for a long time before I decided to dive in, and that is a decision I regret. I can't recall a more bitter, unfriendly group. And I suppose that is precisely why I am leaving. There are plenty of sites that are focusing on taking back the country from the hands of criminals. It used to be this was one of those places.

    So cue up the snark and bitterness, then delete and call me a troll. I don't care, because I'm off to places where every other comment isn't slamming Obama and bemoaning the fall of the party because Hillary didn't win.

    Oh and this is the part where you accuse me of hating women I guess.

    I'm gone, but I doubt I will be the only one leaving as this continues is regrettable slide.

    </TalkLeft>


    And you were here in the first place because. . .? (5.00 / 0) (#213)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 12:48:02 AM EST
    To "unify" the party I'm sure!

    What's the phrase? "Unity ambassador." Indeed.  

    Parent

    It is out.... (2.00 / 1) (#197)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 07:01:57 PM EST
    ...and it will cost him Colorado.  

    The first one you saw? (none / 0) (#2)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:44:33 PM EST
    I see you mentioned. . . (none / 0) (#3)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:45:47 PM EST
    Anyway, I think CO is a tossup now.

    Very concerning to me.

    Parent

    Very concerninhg to me (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:46:40 PM EST
    If Colorado can be lost, then to me that means Nevada and NM are also in play.

    Parent
    McCain is usually ahead in NV (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:48:33 PM EST
    Now you know why Obama cares so much about Virginia and Indiana.

    Honestly, this is why the PA, OH, FL map usually makes more sense.

    Parent

    Hillary would win him florida (5.00 / 10) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:50:23 PM EST
    and the election.

    I hate the Obama campaign right now.

    Can they possibly blow this thing?

    Parent

    This has been the trend since Berlin (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:52:45 PM EST
    I trust the trackers for trends more than you do, which is why these numbers mostly confirm what I already knew.

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:56:38 PM EST
    I do not pay attention to the trackers, too volatile.

    I know Obama is not going to win Indiana. Bayh is useless for that.

    Virginia he can win. Kaine makes more sense than Bayh.

    But Hillary gets him Florida. 27 EVs. The most really in play. Not to mention the money. This is nuts. Nuts that he won't pick Hillary.

    Parent

    Kaine (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:04:58 PM EST
    will put me in the opposition camp. I worked my heart out for Webb and to get Kaine in the Governor's office. I WILL NOT repeat the experience if the party insists on putting an anti choice, marriage is between a man and a woman candidate on the ticket with Obama.

    Parent
    Hillary could have won every state (5.00 / 7) (#51)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:10:49 PM EST
    Obama can, and then some.

    Why should she take second chair just to get Obama a win. The way he is treating the anniversary of women's voting rights vs. the big deal he's making over the anniversary of the MLK speech (great speech, for sure) is a big vision for how Obama feels about women.

    Then, speeches is where his passion lies.


    Parent

    AND a SURE 21 for Penna (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by BarnBabe on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:28:26 PM EST
    And most likely Ohio. Virginia only gives him 13. Why does he want to take this chance?

    Parent
    IN the middle of the night this morning (none / 0) (#32)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:57:47 PM EST
    Mark Halperin hinted at a rumor that Obama might.

    Parent
    BTW, (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:54:28 PM EST
    electoral-vote.com. Give IN and VA to McCain, and that's where we probably are.

    Ohio is crucial again.

    Parent

    They have Indiana for Obama (none / 0) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:57:45 PM EST
    which is just wrong.

    Parent
    And another thing (5.00 / 8) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:55:02 PM EST
    $51 million is not good for Obama in fudraising in July.

    McCain opted in, he gets an extra $85 million in September. Obama needs to be doing $70 million per month for the opt out to make sense.

    Another reason he needed Hillary.


    Parent

    And, another example of that (5.00 / 7) (#33)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:58:32 PM EST
    judgment factor so many of us were/are uneasy with.


    Parent
    McCain is planning on spending (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:41:25 PM EST
    20 million this month in TV advertising.

    I wonder if he bought slots during the Dem convention . . . .

    Parent

    Yes he did (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by RonK Seattle on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:12:39 PM EST
    Supporting democracy (5.00 / 6) (#30)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:57:04 PM EST
    would help him win. The DNC needs to allow an open, fair floor fight. Enough with the coddling him already and stacking the rules to benefit him.

    Parent
    BTD- and Wisconsin (none / 0) (#147)
    by kenosharick on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:32:25 PM EST
    don't forget Wis. (trust me)

    Parent
    I edited (none / 0) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:45:56 PM EST
    I do not follow Rasmussen polls. He is a Zogby imo.

    Parent
    He weights for party, which is unkosher, but (none / 0) (#7)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:47:09 PM EST
    his toplines usually seem about right.

    Parent
    When you get a chance, can you comment (none / 0) (#8)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 03:47:30 PM EST
    or post on what KagroX just posted about?

    Parent
    Heh. Just a snap judgement, but (none / 0) (#156)
    by Edger on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:43:46 PM EST
    I'd go back to calling it for Obama, BTD.

    McCain has a problem that he can't do anything about, I think. ;-)

    Princeton psychologist Alexander Todorov has demonstrated that quick facial judgments can accurately predict real-world election returns. Todorov has taken some of his previous research that showed that people unconsciously judge the competence of an unfamiliar face within a tenth of a second, and he has moved it to the political arena.

    His lab tests show that a rapid appraisal of the relative competence of two candidates' faces was sufficient to predict the winner in about 70 percent of the races for U.S. senator and state governor in the 2006 elections.

    "We never told our test subjects they were looking at candidates for political office -- we only asked them to make a gut reaction response as to which unfamiliar face appeared more competent," said Todorov, an assistant professor of psychology and public affairs.
    ...
    What was unknown to the participants in the third experiment was that the image pairs were actually the photographs of the two frontrunner candidates for a major election being held somewhere in the United States during the time of the experiment in late 2006. The races were either for state governor or for a seat in the U.S. Senate. In cases where an observer recognized either of the two faces, the researchers removed the selection from the data.

    Two weeks later elections were held, and the researchers compared the competency judgments with the election results. They found that the judgments predicted the winners in 72.4 percent of the senatorial races and 68.6 percent of the gubernatorial races.



    Heavens to Woolworth! (5.00 / 2) (#164)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:56:49 PM EST
    Now let's turn the folks with the voice-testing machines loose on these guys...you know, the machines which tell us who is lying!

    Oh.  Never mind.

    Parent

    This is a negative for McCain? (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by Molly Pitcher on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:26:49 PM EST
    "His lab tests show that a rapid appraisal of the relative competence of two candidates' faces was sufficient to predict the winner in about 70 percent of the races for U.S. senator and state governor in the 2006 elections."

    I'd say it is an open invitation for discrimination in action.

    Parent

    I didn't think of it that way. (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by Edger on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:31:09 PM EST
    I'm rather color blind.

    McCain doesn't look overly bright, though. In fact he looks downright stupid beside Obama.

    Or beside almost anyone, for that matter.

    Parent

    Kerry didn't think so. (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by D Jessup on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:34:12 PM EST
    or Feingold (5.00 / 3) (#189)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:37:18 PM EST
    Alot of folks on our side of the aisle respect McCain. They may not agree with him all the time but they respect him.

    Parent
    I respect my cat. (5.00 / 0) (#191)
    by Edger on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:43:57 PM EST
    But the cat isn't very bright.

    Parent