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Thursday Night Open Thread

Our last open thread is already full. Here's a new one, all topics welcome.

A new Quinnipiac University released today indicates Hillary will win huge in November. She's 10 points ahead and Trump continues his downward spiral. Politico reports she's 16 points ahead in Virginia.

If you want to know about the Clinton Foundation, and why Hillary and Bill did nothing wrong, I recommend you pre-order Joe Conasen's new book, Man of the World: The Further Adventures of Bill Clinton. I received an advance copy (which may not be the final version) and it debunks many myths.

< Rudy Giuliani's Glass House
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    Jeralyn (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:11:38 PM EST
    I hope you get to watch Hillary's speech she gave today. It was a thing of beauty.

    Good timing on a strong speech (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by christinep on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:24:02 PM EST
    Yes, the HRC speech today was well-constructed, comprehensive tho compact ... powerful in the way that speaking the truth is.

    Parent
    Just finished the doc film 'Fear of 13' (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:30:58 PM EST
    recommended by McBain and Peter G.

    Just stop what you are doing right now and watch it. It's only a couple of hours and is absolutely riveting.

    I am more and more convinced the jury system needs to be seriously re-thought. I hate to contemplate that for every Nicholas Yarris and Damien Echols, and hopefully one day Adnan Syed, that come out of these horrible experiences with a spiritual growth and grace that a privileged being such as myself can only envy, there are probably 1000 more that have their spirits destroyed and never get released, or are killed. There quite obviously can be no greater crime or injustice.

    The ups and downs these people (none / 0) (#34)
    by McBain on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 11:14:28 PM EST
    go through....

    DNA evidence can set them free...
    But the court won't order a new test

    Now the court says OK to new testing
    But the lab lost the DNA sample

    Parent

    didnt Scalia (none / 0) (#41)
    by linea on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 12:48:14 AM EST
    make comment to the effect that "factual innocence is no reason not to carry out a death sentence properly reached" (?)

    i expect there is a Scalia "school of thought" in american courts. those who feel the court ruled and the decision should stand... like a referee at a sports game. am i wrong?

    Parent

    Of all the crazy stuff (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:31:35 PM EST
    So far in this cycle Trump campaigning with Nigel
     Farage in Mississippi
    has got to be among the strangest.

    "Nigel who now?  An he don like Brussle sprouts?"

    Oh please please please, send one of Nigel's (none / 0) (#11)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:35:31 PM EST
    army to my door wth a leaflet. Can't wait!

    Parent
    Just the fact that Trump (none / 0) (#12)
    by CoralGables on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:35:50 PM EST
    is campaigning in Mississippi tells you all you need to know about the downward slope of his campaign.

    Parent
    Also (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:40:39 PM EST
    I think it reinforces the idea that he is not campaigning to win but to build a following and an audience.

    It's bizarre really that he seems to want this relationship with the white nationalist parties of Europe.  Which is what Farage is.

    Parent

    wait... what? (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by linea on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:59:40 PM EST
    the former leader of UKIP is a neo-nazi now? cuz he supported Brexit? more libertarian-esque than anything... he supports legalization of drugs and American-style gun ownership. too much Kush today? {{ hugs }}

    Parent
    You are the only person dropping the word (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by CoralGables on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 10:16:32 PM EST
    "nazi" into the discussion.

    Parent
    with all due respect (none / 0) (#25)
    by linea on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 10:30:35 PM EST
    that's what "white nationalist" means: neo-nazi. i read it on the SPLC website. why the over-the-top rhetoric? it's like the crazy-left version of the crazy-right pissy blog. it's ridiculous.

    Parent
    I dunno (none / 0) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 10:36:25 PM EST
    but do you have a better word to describe David Duke et al?

    Parent
    i have no idea (none / 0) (#29)
    by linea on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 10:46:46 PM EST
    if david duke is a white nationalist (aka neo-nazi)  = ergo Nigel  Farage is a white nationalist? i took Logic at university. this doesnt seem very logical to me.

    Parent
    please Coral (none / 0) (#27)
    by linea on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 10:42:38 PM EST
    i dont want to argue with anyone and i value your comments but the previous poster calling Nigel Farage a "white nationalist" is simply painting him with the neo-nazi label and it's just too ridiculously over the top to not rebut. if you feel im mistaken than im sorry. really.

    Parent
    If you want to take issue with that term, then I suggest that you talk to them. Under any reasonable definition, these people are neo-Nazis. They are openly supporting Trump. And thus far, he's refused to repudiate them.

    As far as I'm concerned, Donald Trump and Nigel Farage are both political extremists who have been playing with fire, given their repeated appeals to the darkest fears and anxieties of an unsettled electorate. That Farage would go to Mississippi to campaign on Trump's behalf puts him squarely in cahoots with white nationalists.

    Please don't enable them -- or at least, please don't do it here.

    Parent

    Nigel Farage? (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by linea on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 11:21:01 PM EST
    Nigel Farage openly refers to himself as a White Nationalist (Neo-Nazi)? really?

    or are you spinning this and obfuscating this? the previous poster called Nigel Farage a White Nationalist. what are you doing? are you telling me im enabling neo-nazis if i dont accept the proposition that Nigel Farage is a White Nationalist? really? really really?

    i' would be happy to list my political disagreements with Nigel Farage. the gun issue being the main one. but you really need to take a step back, have a glass of wine, and relax.  hillary is the next president. we dont need this.

    Parent

    Excuse me, but who appointed you ... (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:03:22 AM EST
    ... the final arbiter on the subject of racial and ethnic bigotry? There's absolutely no question that Nigel Farage is a white nationalist. Not only has he made no attempt to hide it, he campaigned on it openly during Britain's 2015 parliamentary election campaign. Your inability or unwillingness to grasp and acknowledge that fact is entirely your own problem. Please stop trying to make it everyone else's, too.

    Parent
    you win (none / 0) (#158)
    by linea on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 07:12:11 PM EST
    i have already stated that i disagree with many UKIP policies.

    Parent
    It's not a matter of winning, ... (none / 0) (#194)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:52:37 PM EST
    ... but about being honest in your characterization of Nigel Farage and his party. Unless you're a British voter, who cares if you disagree with UKIP policies? Most all of Britain disagrees with those policies, because the UKIP's full of white nationalist bigots and ignorant nutzoids. That's why it holds only one seat in the House of Commons. Even Farage lost his own race in the 2015 parliamentary elections.

    Parent
    Exactly. The people there must be thrilled (none / 0) (#13)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:37:21 PM EST
    though - when was the last time they saw a POTUS candidate in August?

    Parent
    Ronald Reagan (none / 0) (#16)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:41:41 PM EST
    in 1980?

    Parent
    But important to keep in mind (none / 0) (#21)
    by CoralGables on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 10:11:08 PM EST
    Mississippi went blue in the 1976 presidential election in a close race. Reagan traveling to Mississippi in early August 1980 isn't like campaigning in Mississippi today. Mississippi has voted republican in the last 9 presidential elections.

    Parent
    I know it seems like yesterday (none / 0) (#43)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:56:48 AM EST
    But that was 36 years ago.

    Parent
    This "softening" stuff (none / 0) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:38:06 PM EST
    Could really be when the bottom drops out.  

    Parent
    Charles Blow (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by FlJoe on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:10:57 AM EST
    was just awesome on CNN, blistered some Trump surrogate "who is this guy?" and called out the "media malpractice" for even letting him spew his nonsense in the first place. Just happened so no link.

    media malpractice (none / 0) (#53)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 08:57:12 AM EST
    for even letting him spew his nonsense in the first place.

    Typical Left Winger attacking freedom of speech.

    Parent

    It (none / 0) (#55)
    by FlJoe on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 09:12:46 AM EST
    is my right and the media's duty to call out nonsense, much less enable it. Your silly interpretation of the first amendment is your go to argument to deflect any and all criticism.

    Parent
    Let me double down (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:38:57 AM EST
    Specifically the First Amendment is to protect political speech from censure by the government. Given that the media is licensed by the government then any attempt by the media to limit speech is dangerously close to suppression.

    And note what she said:


     called out the "media malpractice" for even letting him spew his nonsense in the first place.

    That is not refuting what he said. That is a call for suppression.

    That is a call for censorship.

    Parent

    Sorry Jim (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by FlJoe on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:58:01 AM EST
    the first amendment does not compel any organization to allow any random loon to spew lies, nonsense and bigotry. You are just flat out wrong, as usual.

    Parent
    Gosh thanks for making my point (none / 0) (#99)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 12:49:19 PM EST
    No private organization is compelled but news papers, protected by the Constitution, routinely have OPINION sections in which editorials and views are expressed. TV is somewhat different in that the opinion shows are not labeled as such allowing the viewer to call them biased based on the viewer's politics. So the organizations, be they print, TV or radio, have a responsibility to not suppress political speech.

    Note the construct. See the semicolons?

    or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;

    But I digress.

    However, CNN did not, despite Blow's desire, engage in media malpractice. They had every right to invite the person on and allow him to express his opinion. Just as Blow had the right to express his opinion.

    Charles Blow is calling for CNN to suppress someone's speech that Blow, and 99% of CNN's staff, disagrees with.

    Bow is against freedom of speech.

    And evidently so are you.

    "Surprise, surprise Sgt Carter."


    Parent

    Everyone has a responsibility (none / 0) (#112)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 03:26:39 PM EST
    not to "suppress political speech" except his favorite AM radio outlets..

    My view is that at this point Trump should be given as much rope to hang himself as possible.

    Let him be the slab of carrion for all the flies to latch onto. They'll soon find out he's too unpalatable even for them.

    Parent

    Exactly (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 04:29:56 PM EST
    Let the voters decide

    Parent
    He's trying really really hard (none / 0) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:49:44 AM EST
    Let's try harder.  Shall we?

    Parent
    Or (none / 0) (#83)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:01:09 AM EST
    We can all do exactly what he wanted you to do.

    Carry on.

    Parent

    At least he doesn't sound (none / 0) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 09:14:52 AM EST
    Like he's on lithium

    Parent
    Today is Women's Equality Day, (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by caseyOR on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 02:59:14 PM EST
    commemorating August 26, 1920, the day the 19th amendment to the U.S. Constitution was ratified, giving women the right to vote.

    Nobody gave it to us (5.00 / 4) (#133)
    by Towanda on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:35:25 PM EST
    . . . that's how men have framed it.  If they had wanted to give us something other than candy and flowers, they could have given us suffrage a century or sooner and saved us millions of hours of work -- as well as millions of dollars that we had to raise, with bake sales and even selling off the few possessions that women could hold before property rights, to fund a total of 909 separate campaigns at state, local, and national levels).

    We WON our suffrage.

    And we will WIN again.

    Parent

    To be fair (none / 0) (#183)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 09:59:47 PM EST
    You can't use the term "we" concerning suffrage. You weren't born yet.

    Parent
    Does anyone remember Disney River Country? (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 04:21:07 PM EST
    It was a water/pool theme park which opened in 1976 as part of the Disney World complex in Florida, and was closed down 25 years later in 2001. Anyway, here's what it looks like today, per Seph Lawless' eerie photo essay "Dismaland," which is a most appropriate title.

    Chicago is basically worthless (1.50 / 2) (#136)
    by NycNate on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:42:10 PM EST
    The type of sloppy hyperbolic (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:30:28 PM EST
    thinking that declares a huge multifaceted city "basically worthless" is the type of thinking that leads to declaring giant swathes of humanity worthless.

    You sound like one of those anonymous burntout cops who vent online.

    Parent

    I hope not (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:57:59 PM EST
    My son is there right now for training for his new position.  He loves it.  He loves walking around the city.

    Parent
    You know, after hearing that from people like (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 08:46:33 PM EST
    you for the last couple of years, I was almost afraid to go weekend before last.  Haven't been back to my parents old neighborhoods for many years. But I went anyway, and yes, drove through some impoverished areas on my way from Oak Park to Michigan Ave. In fact it was the first time I had ever seen the proverbial kids playing in an opened up fire hydrant in real life. It is a huge sprawling city - there are all kinds of neighborhoods. And yes some are crime ridden and gang controlled, so you stay away if you know what is good for you. As I do.   But I walked from Mich Ave to Navy Pier and back at night and felt perfectly safe. Plenty of people on the street and on the pier, and a noticeable but not oppressive police presence. Everyone enjoying a Thursday evening - watching the Cubs in bars. Next day I walked the lakefront up to Grant Park and on to the Art Institute. Saw more golden retrievers than people looking like they were contemplating  committing crimes.

    It is still a wonderful city despite the problems of segregation and poverty, and I am proud to have been born there, descended from a few generations born there. I wish everyone there had the opportunities for a better life that they deserve.

    Go Cubbies!

    Parent

    Nobody told me about the veritable (none / 0) (#182)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 09:42:09 PM EST
    armies of homeless people in Seattle before I moved there. WWII veterans eating out of garbage cans..Natives of the Northwest tribes and even Native Alaskans living in the street and scrounging for a meal and lost in the bottle..

    The slow violence of apathy, neglect, and despair..

    But now this year conservatives are suddenly passionately concerned about the state of "our cities" -- mainly because there are a lot of Democrat mayors and because Obama Obama Obama is from Chicago Chicago Chicago..

    How full of sh*t are these people?

    Parent

    Gawd, did you actually read that article ? (5.00 / 2) (#177)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 08:51:35 PM EST
    Hardly some deeply scary riot.  If this is your example of a worthless city you are going to have do do better than that.


    Parent
    What's the view of this Clinton information? (1.00 / 2) (#151)
    by Green26 on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:46:46 PM EST
    It appears this information was compiled by the Associated Press.

    "More than half the people outside the government who met with Hillary Clinton while she was secretary of state gave money -- either personally or through companies or groups -- to the Clinton Foundation. It's an extraordinary proportion indicating her possible ethics challenges if elected president.

    At least 85 of 154 people from private interests who met or had phone conversations scheduled with Clinton while she led the State Department donated to her family charity or pledged commitments to its international programs, according to a review of State Department calendars released so far to The Associated Press. Combined, the 85 donors contributed as much as $156 million. At least 40 donated more than $100,000 each, and 20 gave more than $1 million."

    AP Story.

    This doesn't look very good to me. Isn't the way I'd want our government to be run. Still voting for Hillary, though.


    Here's a view for ya (5.00 / 2) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:53:14 PM EST
    Capt, that article is a mess (none / 0) (#191)
    by Green26 on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:45:36 PM EST
    It doesn't show or prove anything. It's a terrible article. A few conclusions with no support or substance.

    Parent
    It may mot look good to you because (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by JanaM on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 07:26:21 PM EST
    you don't understand the nature of the Clinton Global Initiative. I would have expected every country to have participated in it and made pledges to initiate and fund humanitarian, environmental, educational or health projects.

    Similarly I would expect contributions from the wealthy, not-so wealthy activists, as well as anyone interested in the same kind of work would the Clinton Foundation has promoted around the world. These are the same people who naturally would meet with a secretary of state as well as a president.

    It would be a damn shame if all the incredible work the foundation and the CGI have been responsible for funding, organizing or inspiring ends because of more false accusations from political enemies.

    Parent

    It's (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by FlJoe on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 07:57:08 PM EST
    not that they don't understand, it's willful ignorance. The right and most of the media cast aside the whole concept of philanthropy just to score political points, disgusting.

    Parent
    Jana, you don't understand what the AP article (none / 0) (#192)
    by Green26 on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:49:10 PM EST
    was about. It wasn't about government meetings with Clinton. It was about private citizen meetings with Clinton. It is troubling that so many of her meetings with private citizens were with donors. And it is especially troubling that some of those donors had their meetings set up via people at the Foundation.

    Parent
    The (5.00 / 3) (#162)
    by FlJoe on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 07:36:33 PM EST
    the story has been more or less debunked. Cherry picked data without context. Many, if not most of these meetings were with world class philanthropists(ala Bill and Melinda Gates), who run massive international NGO's that by necessity have to deal with State. Oh and a world renowned Nobel prize winning economist, exactly who you would expect a SoS to meet with.

    This is a typical media smear on the Clinton's presenting everything through a glass darkly.
     

    Parent

    Joe, not the story hasn't been debunked (none / 0) (#193)
    by Green26 on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:50:54 PM EST
    in the least. Feel free to link any story that debunks it.

    Parent
    I find it impossible to believe she only met with (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 09:06:07 PM EST
    154 people from private interests during her time as SoS...so right there I suspect some cherry picking.

    The underlying point that rich people get access to government is age old. It did not start and will not end with Hillary Clinton. Rich people also donate to charities, and probably like to donate to charities run by big names, and go to events like the CGI. Would we rather have them keep their money in a mattress and their opinions to themselves? Maybe. But I'd rather be vigilant about corruption than not have charities that do good work for less privileged people.

    Parent

    Ruffian, the list of people came (none / 0) (#195)
    by Green26 on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:53:39 PM EST
    from the list released to the AP, which they had to sue for, from what I read. It's apparently from the official list that was provided to the AP. There is no indication it was cherry-picked.

    Parent
    The AP will not release the names (none / 0) (#199)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 27, 2016 at 12:01:21 AM EST
    that they include in their list.  A valid, well sourced article?

    Parent
    She met more than 154 (none / 0) (#196)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:55:48 PM EST
    private people while Secretary of State.  That number alone is a red flag.

    Among the 85 that donated to the foundation that AP said she met with was Elie Weisel, Melinda Gates and a Nobel Prize winning economist who was being persecuted.  Real nefarious, right?  They paid Hillary and Bill personally, right?  Pay to play....they made millions off the Foundation?

    Parent

    quinnipiac is one of the better polls (none / 0) (#1)
    by linea on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 08:03:58 PM EST
    but it's really moot (smile).  the number-crunching wonks have the state by state electoral votes indicating a hillary win (~84% change of winning to trumps ~16% chance of winning per nate silver's 538 blog). it's pretty much done. i mean, it is done. it's just not possible for trump to flip the needed states. the election is over as far as im voncerned. president hillary clinton... the first women elected to the office. hopefully, she will have a chance to nominate several scotus justices and the choice and gay rights issue will be secure for our lifetimes.  

    only 5 pts ahead in AZ and basically tied in NC (none / 0) (#2)
    by pitachips on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 08:38:28 PM EST
    I think she will take both - NC very handily but AZ by less than 1%. Romney only won NC by 2 pts and he won AZ by 10.  

    Election night is going to be amazing. I wonder what the GOP will look like in a year.


    even if trump (none / 0) (#3)
    by linea on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 08:55:37 PM EST
    wins AZ (i think he might) he cant flip NC... and also flip FL and OH and IA and he needs all of those to win. cant be done. it just cant be done. election night... i'll be out with friends at the local "social house" and it will be a serious party. there goes my diet. liquid calories are the worse calories!

    Parent
    I'm thinking about (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:14:54 PM EST
    having an election watching party, the first one ever.

    Parent
    what is the (none / 0) (#6)
    by linea on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:23:18 PM EST
    the "Alt-Right" exactly? people are using the term as if it's an actual thing so what is it? teaparty... libertarians... populist nationalists (gasp)... what? what's the stated platform of the Alt-Right? or is it just a slur against donald trump to insinuate he's a neo-nazi or some such political name-calling like associating "liberals" with clandestine communists? like that? i dunno. can sombody explain the term?

    It's a rebranding (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:27:01 PM EST
    Campaign by white supremacists.   So yeah, it's a completely accurate slur against Donald Trump

    Parent
    oh (none / 0) (#17)
    by linea on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:42:47 PM EST
    trump = alt-right = white supremacists?

    cuz trump is a nazi skin-head pro-hitler fascist who wants to exterminate the jews because they betrayed the fatherland and commited deicide by killed jesus? seriously? you people... seriously.

    Parent

    I think your bus is leaving (5.00 / 4) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:44:42 PM EST
    It pulled out of the station... (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:11:36 AM EST
    awhile ago.

    Parent
    i dont know what that means (none / 0) (#20)
    by linea on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 10:01:54 PM EST
    It means "alternative right." (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 10:30:29 PM EST
    It's a term that's been adopted by elements of the far right, including the radical fringe, to distinguish themselves from more traditional American conservatives.

    Parent
    so what are the stated platform and policies then? (none / 0) (#31)
    by linea on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 11:03:07 PM EST
    What am I -- your personal encyclopedia? (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 11:17:34 PM EST
    Look it up yourself. And for the record, I'm really not buying this faux naiveté on your part. I have a sneaking suspicion that you're trolling. As such, I'm done interacting with you here.

    Parent
    ok i did (none / 0) (#38)
    by linea on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 11:52:00 PM EST
    i found it on wiki.

    im hardly naive. i repeatedly mention on this blog that ive attended university and im well-educated. i feel i am challenging some of the more over-the-top posts on this blog. i am also completely astounded that my "lawyerly rebuttatals" are recieved with such hostility including accusations of being a republican troll particularly since all my initial posts on this blog were bernie supportive and the fact that i consider the gun stance by the liberals on this blog to be wholly inadequate.

    Parent

    That is not Acceptable (none / 0) (#46)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:41:45 AM EST
    i feel i am challenging some of the more over-the-top posts on this blog.

    And you will be dealt with appropriately.

    Parent

    Sorry (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:46:39 AM EST
    Trevor but we don't think the alt-right is a thing worthy of praise. And if you consider that "being dealt with" then so be it. We are going to push back against the rotten conservative movement and all it stands for.

    Parent
    The conservative movement (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 08:11:43 AM EST
    does not really exist anymore.

    What does such a movement stand for?

    Conservatives lost the culture wars.  Marriage equality really undid them.  Religious conservatives are finished politically.

    A "robust" foreign policy.  No one seems all that eager for adventures abroad.

    More tax cuts for the wealthy and trickle down?  Not really.  Even the GOP has become economically populist.

    Into this vacuum steps Trump. And voila'  nationalism, xenophobia and bigotry is all that is left.  

    Parent

    Excellent, concise analysis, MKS (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:34:59 PM EST
    in a nutshell that's about it.

    Parent
    The conservative (none / 0) (#51)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 08:19:14 AM EST
    movement as some define it really has no existed since the end of the Cold War. For decades that was their defining force. However, yes, since then conservatives have clung to the culture wars and trickle down economics as the defining issues of conservatism. And yeah, since neither of those became sell-able anymore they now are down to xenophobia, bigotry and nationalism who are people they have been bringing to the dance for half a century.  Now their dance partner has taken over.

    Parent
    I never heard the expression alt right (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 04:29:53 PM EST
    until 2 days ago

    Parent
    ... you really need to get out more often.

    Parent
    You probably (none / 0) (#126)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:18:18 PM EST
    never heard the term before but you apparently go to their websites and repeat their talking points. Either you are ignorant of what you have been passively aggressively doing or you are quite aware just unaware of the catch all phrase for the movement.  

    Parent
    No, No, and NO (none / 0) (#130)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:30:21 PM EST
    You cannot ever associate someone with a group or thing because they have certain like interests.

    KEY WORD  Certain

    And for the record,

    They have co opted some of my "talking points",

    My thoughts are my own, however I do not expect myself to be the only one expressing them.

    A very simple concept

    Parent

    I'm with you DfromH (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 08:53:55 AM EST
    This in the Rudy thread

    from my perspective... (none / 0) (#11)
    by linea on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 08:27:57 PM EST
    dr drew discussed this and i personally consider his analysis definitive

    Was the clencher.   I've said humor troll from day 1

    That confirms it.  No one on earth would say that seriously.

    I'm actually starting to appreciate it.  

    Parent

    Bernie supporter (none / 0) (#54)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 09:07:01 AM EST
    that loves all the Trump kids, and Dr Drew gives the definitive analysis of Hillary.

    It almost follows the textbook approach of an overseas Trump troll.

    Parent

    Definitely overseas... (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:26:40 AM EST
    no self-respecting American would say "i took Logic (HA!) at university".

    Parent
    Still (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:31:15 AM EST
    It's cute that Trevor has a "friend"

    Parent
    Yes, and leave (none / 0) (#110)
    by KeysDan on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 03:11:27 PM EST
    the creative writing, architecture graduate from Slovenia U. wife in her posh dress alone.

    Parent
    that's right (none / 0) (#167)
    by linea on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 07:59:21 PM EST
    re: "Yes, and leave the creative writing, architecture graduate from Slovenia U. wife in her posh dress alone."

    i dont feel it's right to ATTACK A WIFE who is uninvolved in politics because you don't like the politician. that's right.

    Parent

    HLN just cancelled Dr. Drew's show. (none / 0) (#114)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 03:57:57 PM EST
    Coincidentally, this was mere days after he offered his outrageous on-air diagnosis about Mrs. Clinton. However, since Ashleigh Banfield has just announced that she's moving from CNN to HLN, it's likely that Dr. Drew was dropped from the HLN line-up to make room for her. Had they been truly angry with him over his Clinton nonsense, they'd have pulled him immediately. As it stands, his final show is Sept. 22.

    Parent
    I am very happy to say (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:25:54 PM EST
    I had never head of Dr Drew until his tv diagnosis of Hillary.

    Parent
    I have heard (none / 0) (#131)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:30:36 PM EST
    of him before. Mostly because I think he was the Dr. on MTV at one time and that was something my then teenager watched.

    Parent
    HA (none / 0) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:06:56 PM EST
    I think that might have been Dr Dre

    Parent
    Okay. No, (none / 0) (#145)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:14:50 PM EST
    I googled and it's not the same one but believe it or not I do know who Dr. Dre is.

    Parent
    yes (none / 0) (#157)
    by linea on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 07:07:26 PM EST
    the dr drew from MTV and the reality shows on vh1.

    Parent
    All these Dr Drews, Dr Lauras (none / 0) (#127)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:25:54 PM EST
    and Dr Savages almost make me proud of HH Warner and his Kidney, Liver, and Bladder Cure..

    Parent
    Ashleigh Banfield? (none / 0) (#159)
    by JanaM on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 07:17:12 PM EST
    That's disappointing. Who goes from CNN to the Hysterical Ladies Network?

    Parent
    i dont feel that's fair (none / 0) (#156)
    by linea on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 07:05:34 PM EST
    i post on almost every thread that hillary is going to win the election.

    i have stated my support for choice and gay rights.

    i have a more aggresive opinion on guns than possibly anyone on this forum.

    i will not be voting for donald trump in the upcoming presidential election.

    Parent

    To me, the best explanation (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:36:43 AM EST
    I've heard was in Hillary's speech yesterday. The full text is online.  

    Parent
    maybe (none / 0) (#22)
    by linea on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 10:16:01 PM EST
    he's positioning for one of his sons to run in 2020? i think that's doable.

    Heh. If you say so. (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 10:43:52 PM EST
    Just my opinion, obviously, but Trump's conscious -- and at this point, stubborn -- personal refusal to disassociate himself completely from the white nationalist movement and other far-right fringe elements hasn't exactly been his wisest move in a long and storied career. Personally, I think he may have tarnished the Trump name brand beyond any reasonable expectation of salvage for the foreseeable future.

    In other words, he's screwed himself royally.

    Parent

    im obviously missing something (none / 0) (#30)
    by linea on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 10:49:47 PM EST
    cuz other than a couple completely moronic cringe-worth gaffs during the republican primary (months ago) i have no idea what you are refering to.

    Parent
    Well, you got that right. (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 11:10:04 PM EST
    You're obviously missing something.

    Parent
    that was snarky (none / 0) (#37)
    by linea on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 11:24:17 PM EST
    and non-responsive.

    i feel i'm the voice of sanity here. i'm amazed at the level of histrionics on this "posh lawyer" blog.

    Parent

    Don't be amazed (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:00:55 AM EST
    But actually there use to be some informative and reasoned debates.

    Parent
    When was that, Jim? (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 02:29:53 PM EST
    back when you were linking to Power Line, Whirled Nut Daily and the Swift Boaters For Truth and regularly accusing other posters of not "supporting the troops"?

    What I remember is a number of thoughtful, reasonable regulars here saying "either he goes or I go."

    Parent

    That's nice you "feel" that way (none / 0) (#75)
    by Yman on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:51:51 AM EST
    n/t

    Parent
    Jazz afficianados will note the passing of (none / 0) (#39)
    by desertswine on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 12:21:17 AM EST
    oh! desert swine not dessert wine. who are you? (none / 0) (#40)
    by linea on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 12:34:05 AM EST
    i listened to the youtube link and he was very talented. it is very beautiful music. im sorry he passed away. i hope at 91 he had lots of people who loved him. i feel that's all that matters in this world, people who love you.

    Parent
    Hillary (none / 0) (#48)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 07:11:05 AM EST
    appearing on Mornin' Joe at 8:30am NY time.

    Very interesting show today (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 09:31:28 AM EST
    I just woke up so I have not gotten to the interview yet but very interesting show.

    "We've reached a point where we can no longer pretend to cover this in a balanced way.  What he is doing is wrong.  It's dangerous for the country"

    "As far as the party, we are in the black box phase.  We have crashed"

    They have nothing but praise for what Hillary did yesterday.  And this is a republican show.  It's like the Jennifer Rubin (right wing WaPo writer) story linked in the last thread.  

    This is reaching a tipping point.  

    Parent

    The odious Chuck Todd (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:09:03 AM EST
    Just made an interesting point that I had missed in my excitement.

    Since Hillary took the skin off Donald yesterday not a single republican outside the Trump campaign has offered a single word of defense of Trump.

    He's right.  That's interesting.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:22:06 AM EST
    that is surprising. I wonder how many of them now regret going to the convention to support Trump?

    It sure was nice for everybody else to see the Hillary that you and I have known for quite a while now.

    Parent

    she did single out (none / 0) (#76)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:51:57 AM EST
    Bush, McCain and, I think, Romney in her speech.

    Parent
    Bush McCain and Dole (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:58:43 AM EST
    Actually.   I said yesterday the speech was intended to make them choose.   I think a lot of republicans woke up this morning and realized Hillary "went there" and she will almost certainly continue going there.  And they really are going to have to choose.

    The most brilliant thing about the speech is that it contained almost no opinions and no hyperbole.  All she did was repeat their words back to them.   She did the same thing this morning in that interview.

    Btw
    On the interview IMO she gave the best responses I've heard about the foundation.   Everyone should watch it.

    Parent

    I guess I thought her (none / 0) (#86)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:07:35 AM EST
    Speech, though brilliant strategically, was historical in that it identified how hate is being used to play on people's fears. The DT reps on this a.m. Kept claiming that she called his supporters the R word, which I don't believe she did.  

    Parent
    She did not (5.00 / 3) (#88)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:17:11 AM EST
    Call him a racist or bigot.  Intentionally, I presume, because that's where she'd lose the high ground and the rest of the message would have been drowned out.

    Parent
    I believe what BFO is saying (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:25:15 AM EST
    Is that Trump and his minions are saying she is calling his supporters racists and bigots.  

    He is.

    I expect a statement along the lines of "not all Trump supporters are White Supremacists but nearly all White Supremacists are Trump supporters."


    Parent

    I'm sure (none / 0) (#92)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:41:28 AM EST
    Frank Luntz is crafting a response as we speak. It might be a while though before we actually hear it. Running it through those focus groups takes a while.

    Parent
    Yes, that's (none / 0) (#109)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 02:59:45 PM EST
    what I was saying!  And I heard the claims that she was calling his followers the R word on CNN this a.m. while I was waiting for the Hillary interview. I forget which surrogate said this, but I heard it again on another channel, but again, can't recall who said it.  

    Parent
    That is most likely (none / 0) (#123)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 04:30:00 PM EST
    99% accurate.

    In a binary system, they would certainly not vote for Madame Sec

    Parent

    That too (none / 0) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:16:40 AM EST
    Although some comparisons are being made to the Goldwater campaign.

    Query

    DT reps?

    So far I've only heard two talking heads whine about Hillary getting the gutter.  Joe Scarborough (subtly and more in pain than anger of course) and Chris Matthews.   Tweety was very distressed over the "new tone" of the campaign.  Both clearly know their audiences.

    Parent

    Yes, Tweety was (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by KeysDan on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 03:48:34 PM EST
    quite distressed. Nodded in agreement with Michael Steele, former RNC chair and MSNBC contributor, that Trump and Clinton were "holding hands," in the descent.  Tweety deployed his favorite tact, false equivalency, but the other guests were not having it.

    A new guest, Andrew Weinstein, a former Bush aide, felt Mrs. Clinton to be absolutely justified in everything she said, pointing out the dangers that Trump presents to the country and world.  And, told of his own experiences, lately, of vile and scary posts he has received since endorsing Mrs. Clinton, related to his "traditional Jewish last name."  He offered a few examples that do not deserve repeating.

    Tweety challenged him on his reporting that the Grand Kleagle (or whatever) of the KKK endorsed Trump.  Tweety flat out said he thought the guy was wrong about that only to have to admit that what Mr. Weinstein reported was true, after return from a commercial break. I wonder if Mr. Weinstein will be invited back to Hardball, owing to what Tweety must feel was a low ball.

    Parent

    Oh man, I was going to record it (none / 0) (#93)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 12:13:12 PM EST
    What did she said about Foundation....

    Parent
    You might be able (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 12:24:25 PM EST
    to watch it here

    Not willing to sit through the crashes to find out.

    Good luck.

    Parent

    that is, she (none / 0) (#78)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:54:48 AM EST
    Singled out these prominent Republicans for praise.

    Parent
    Whoa boy (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 08:10:21 AM EST
    the poo flinging and meltdowns on the right today are legendary.

    Trump was right (none / 0) (#57)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 09:19:34 AM EST
    Voter fraud may exist after all. But he probably didn't count on it being from his own campaign CEO.

    Donald Trump's new presidential campaign chief is registered to vote in a key swing state at an empty house where he does not live, in an apparent breach of election laws.

    Stephen Bannon, the chief executive of Trump's election campaign, has an active voter registration at the house in Miami-Dade County, Florida, which is vacant and due to be demolished to make way for a new development.

    "I have emptied the property," Luis Guevara, the owner of the house, which is in the Coconut Grove section of the city, said in an interview. "Nobody lives there ... we are going to make a construction there." Neighbors said the property had been abandoned for several months.

    SNIP

    Bannon is executive chairman of the rightwing website Breitbart News, which has for years aggressively claimed that voter fraud is rife among minorities and in Democratic-leaning areas. The allegation has been repeated forcefully on the campaign trail by Trump, who has predicted the election will be "rigged" and warned supporters that victory could be fraudulently "taken away from us".

    SNIP

    Wilfully submitting false information on a Florida voter registration - or helping someone to do so - is a third-degree felony punishable by up to five years in prison.


    See? He was right (none / 0) (#60)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 09:55:32 AM EST
    Bannon is executive chairman of the rightwing website Breitbart News, which has for years aggressively claimed that voter fraud is rife among minorities


    Parent
    You're saying (none / 0) (#66)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:16:29 AM EST
    Bannon is a minority?  Or white supremacists are?  (Hopefully they ARE a minority)

    Parent
    Don't play the race card on me, jb (none / 0) (#71)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:42:11 AM EST
    You know exactly my point.

    Bannon was right.

    Parent

    It's your own words (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Yman on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:57:32 AM EST
    Your quote:

    Bannon is executive chairman of the rightwing website Breitbart News, which has for years aggressively claimed that voter fraud is rife among minorities

    Followed by your claim saying that Bannon was right, with the evidence being Bannon's own Vitter registration

    Parent

    Unlike you Yman (none / 0) (#100)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 12:56:11 PM EST
    I have no political gods and am quite willing to agree when they are apparently wrong.

    You should try it sometimes.

    Now, if he had the house leased and if the lease is current the question is....where is his domicile??

    Professional athletes are required to pay state taxes based on the number of days they are in the state playing even though they may be registered in other states.

    Parent

    Read further (none / 0) (#111)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 03:19:45 PM EST
    Maybe you should have read further:

    Records from the Orange County registrar of voters state that Bannon was registered to vote there from the 1980s until 2014, when he cancelled his registration and began registering in Miami. He had voted in most general elections by mail in California but, according to records, did not vote in the 2012 presidential primary, when eventual nominee Mitt Romney beat candidates including Newt Gingrich, Bannon's fellow rightwinger and Trump ally.

    Bannon also co-owns a condominium in Los Angeles and is known to stay at the so-called "Breitbart embassy", a luxurious $2.4m townhouse beside the supreme court in Washington DC, where his website's staff work from basement offices. A Bloomberg profile of Bannon published last October, with which he cooperated, stated that Bannon "occupies" the townhouse and described it as being "his".

    But according to records at the DC office of tax and revenue, the Breitbart house is actually owned by Mostafa El-Gindy, an Egyptian businessman and former member of parliament. Gindy has received favorable coverage from Breitbart News, which styles him as a "senior statesman", without an accompanying disclosure that he is the website's landlord.

    SNIP

    But then, it appears his ex-wife is just as shady as he:

    Clohesy, who has worked on conservative films produced by Bannon since their divorce, also has a voting arrangement that appears to contravene Florida regulations. Rather than register to vote from her rented homes in Miami, she was and continues to be registered to vote in neighboring Broward County from a mailbox at a shipping facility in the city of Pompano Beach.

    The use of such mailbox addresses is not allowed by Broward County, which requires that residents use their home address. "You have to give the address where you live, so you can't use a PO box," said Tonya Edwards, a spokeswoman for the county supervisor of elections.

    Clohesy appears in the county election register as living at 102 Governmental Center, which is actually the address of the elections supervisor's office. Edwards, the spokeswoman for the office, told the Guardian this designation was intended for homeless people.



    Parent
    So let me understand (none / 0) (#186)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:02:46 PM EST
    he has a house in FL under lease.

    That's bad??

    You remember where Hillary lived when she ran for the Senate?

    lol

    Parent

    Unlike you, Jim (none / 0) (#164)
    by Yman on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 07:49:06 PM EST
    I can read sentences and apply logic.     You claimed that the allegations against Bannon are evidence that supports Bannon's claim (voter fraud is rife among minorities).

    1.  Bannon is ONE person.
    2.  Bannon is no a minority.

    Try again.

    Parent
    I would consider Bannon a minority (none / 0) (#185)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:12:28 PM EST
    Misogynistic anti-Semitic white males certainly aren't a majority.

    Parent
    CG should get over to that house (none / 0) (#94)
    by fishcamp on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 12:14:10 PM EST
    and get some demolishment photos.  It could be a Pulitzer moment CG so get the background lined up.  Watch your yourself over there.  You could qualify for combat pay..

    Parent
    This is too damn funny (5.00 / 3) (#98)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 12:39:29 PM EST
    Bannon finally proved voter fraud...himself

    Parent
    I'm having fun watching (none / 0) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 09:54:22 AM EST
    Trump point out the failure of Democratic leadership in the inner cities.

    Facts are on his side. And the Demo TV Talking Heads just twist and turn. Their chief complaint is that Trump is making his charges on TV and not going to a black church in Atlanta and make them while imitating black's the way Hillary did...I cringe every time I see that.

    And I love the new commercial showing how Trump is a KKK member.....

    Wait.... that was Democratic Senator Harry "The Grand Klaxon" Byrd.

    Nastiest campaign I have ever seen.

    The debates will be sponsored by Mud  Wrestling Inc.

    In the meantime the CEO of EpiPens, Democratic Senator Joe Manchin's daughter,  explains why she has raised the price of the life saving drug/device from $100 to $600. Complicated system...

    "No one is more frustrated than me," she told CNBC

    Oh. I dunno. But I'd guess the folks who don't make $19 million a year might at least come in a close second...

    Anyway, who does she think she is, a Trump?

    I dunno (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by CST on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:01:10 AM EST
    From where I sit the inner city is booming these days, in a Dem city in a Dem state.

    Are there cities with problems?  Yea.  But most cities are not in any way failing, if anything they are facing a major resurgence because that's where young people want to be.  However all cities are pretty much run by Dems.  So both your good ones and your bad ones will have Dem leadership.  Of course Trump isn't really interested in anyone else's success stories.

    Maybe if we had more democrats in congress we could actually get single payer.  Not every democrat will support it, but only democrats will.

    Parent

    Perhaps the latest pharma monopoly (none / 0) (#64)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:09:25 AM EST
    gigantic price hike will shock the conscience of our legislators.

    Parent
    one can only hope (none / 0) (#67)
    by CST on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:18:38 AM EST
    although if that were the case it should've happened already.

    Parent
    And a Democrat (none / 0) (#72)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:45:57 AM EST
    shall lead them?

    Like only Nixon could go to China?

    Nope. Won't happen. A three day story and then business as usual.

    Now if she was a Repub politician's daughter...

    DETAILS AT 11 !!!!!

    Day after day after day.

    Parent

    It's all one big liberal conspiracy.. (none / 0) (#116)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 04:05:41 PM EST
    against the folks in flies-all-over country shoehorned into flimsy lawn chairs and waving little plastic flags.

    Parent
    Same here (none / 0) (#69)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:23:29 AM EST
    in Atlanta. However the truth is the areas that really failing are the rural areas and it's those areas that are attracted to Trump.

    Parent
    I give you (none / 0) (#74)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:50:47 AM EST
    Detroit, Memphis, LA, Oakland, Chicago, NO....

    And Obama had his chance but he only wanted single payer for his base because he didn't want to have them pay for it.

    Out here in flyover country the issue is fairness.

    Parent

    What about all the rural (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:54:46 AM EST
    areas with 20% employment that governed by Republicans? We here in GA have had some of the highest UE in the nation for years yet people like you keep voting for them? What does that say?

    And "flyover" Kansas detests their Republican governor who has been nothing short of a disaster.

    Parent

    By "flyover country" (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by Yman on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:02:05 AM EST
    Do you mean those states that are supported by those of us in the "donor" states?  

    Heh.

    Parent

    LA and Oakland (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 12:27:11 PM EST
    are not failing.

    Have you been there recently?

    LA proper is so yuuge and sprawling it is hard to know which part of it you are talking about.

    Just west of downtown is getting pretty fashionable these days.  The entire Valley is part of the official city of LA and it is just fine and wealthy in some areas.

    Koreatown?  I think that is a really interesting place to go.  Not at all a war zone.

    South Central?  Is that what you are talking about?  Well the not so bad either.  The new Rams stadium and accompanying development will be built in Inglewood.

    And Oakland is not doing so bad, either.   Jerry Brown as mayor (before he re-became governor) championed a downtown redevelopment project that made much of it look really quite good.  All art-deco like.  Big fish market.  Nice sandwich shops.  Office buildings and hotels.

    Jim, it seems in true Trump fashion you believe in stereotypes about "urban" areas.  News flash, people, and in particular, millennials like the big cities.  What is hurting are the small towns of rural America that are viewed as dead ends and are being hollowed out.

    Parent

    Reading comprehension (none / 0) (#84)
    by CST on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:01:46 AM EST
    "However all cities are pretty much run by Dems.  So both your good ones and your bad ones will have Dem leadership."

    Bush had his chance too, but he only wanted less government control over healthcare and higher prescription drug prices.  Now it looks like it will be Hillary's turn.  Maybe if you guys sent her some decent congress people to work with we'd actually get somewhere.

    Out here on the coast the issue is the economy.  And fairness in the eyes of the law, and being treated with respect regardless of your background, and not starting a nuclear war because someone sent a mean tweet.

    Parent

    Who's Harry Byrd, Jim? (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 01:16:21 PM EST
    A neighbor of yours?

    Parent
    Harry Byrd... (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by desertswine on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 01:34:49 PM EST
    Harry Byrd was well before my time. (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 04:08:08 PM EST
    And with career stats like his (46-54, with a 4.54 ERA and a .160 batting average), it's truly a wonder that he's even remembered at all!

    Parent
    He is immortalized forever on some... (none / 0) (#176)
    by desertswine on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 08:46:33 PM EST
    of the beautiful baseball cards of the early '50s.

    Parent
    I thought he was your uncle (none / 0) (#188)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:09:18 PM EST
    Got some personal stories to share?

    Parent
    Yeah, as a matter of fact, I do. (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Aug 27, 2016 at 12:01:17 AM EST
    I'm proud to say that none of them have ever posted race-baiting imagery online of President Obama as an African witch doctor with a bone through his nose.

    Parent
    That's nice. (none / 0) (#82)
    by Yman on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:59:57 AM EST
    I'll be "having fun" on Nov. 9, imagining your reaction.

    Parent
    Harry Byrd for the record (none / 0) (#97)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 12:32:49 PM EST
    It is the sign of a failed argument when the conservatives bring up Harry Byrd.

    Most know this already, but just to set the record straight, Harry Byrd changed.   He apologized.  For decades, he made up for his past.  He repented.  Get it?

     The Harry Byrd that Hillary talked about was the penitent Senator who worked for equality.

     

    Parent

    Are you sure you have the right Byrd? (none / 0) (#104)
    by RCBadger on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 02:36:21 PM EST
    I think you mean Robert C. Byrd, not Harry.  He's the one most rightwingers I know on and offline cite as proof that Democrats are racists.

    Parent
    Robert, I knew that (none / 0) (#106)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 02:49:47 PM EST
    Insidious suggestion (none / 0) (#107)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 02:51:38 PM EST
    I let Jim's error rub off on me.

    Interesting example of how repeating a falsehood can become true.

    Parent

    Apologized? (none / 0) (#115)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 04:01:32 PM EST
    So did Nathan Bedford Forrest but they're still attacking him.... lol

    Huffington Post

    Harry had much to apologize for:

    I shall never fight in the armed forces with a n---- by my side ... Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.

    -- Robert C. Byrd, in a letter to Sen. Theodore Bilbo (D-MS), 1944[13][2

    Byrd joined with Democratic senators to filibuster the Civil Rights Act of 1964,[32] personally filibustering the bill for 14 hours,

    ...Despite an 83-day filibuster in the Senate, both parties in Congress voted overwhelmingly in favor of the Act

    Link

    Using the "N" word on live cable television. While on Tony Snow's "Fox News Sunday" in March 2001, Sen. Byrd, speaking in reference to race relations in the U.S., said:

    "..... There are white n----- I've seen a lot of white n------ in my time. I'm going to use that word. ....

    Link

    Of course by extension if there are white n------
    then there must be black ones in Harry's world. He never actually burned his sheet.

    And then there is Senator Thurmond....

    Parent

    Did Byrd ever post pictures of black men (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 04:11:28 PM EST
    with bones in their noses and watermelon patches on the Whitehouse lawn?

    At least Byrd acknowledged his wrong and apologized.

    Parent

    Racist is as racist does (none / 0) (#135)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:40:28 PM EST
    Nathan Bedford Forest? (5.00 / 3) (#132)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:31:51 PM EST
    You can't tell the difference between him and Byrd?

    Mass killers are different, you know.

    Parent

    War is hell (none / 0) (#187)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:07:08 PM EST
    but you grasp the point. Forrest apologized.

    So did Byrd.

    Of course Forrest didn't have the advantage of 20th century education and examples.

    Wonder what Byrd's excuse was???

    Parent

    Yes, I know you believe (none / 0) (#189)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:32:36 PM EST
    there is no such thing as War Crimes.

    Neglect of POWs who were dying got the commandant of Andersonville hanged.  

    But forget the Civil War, Forrest was responsible for forming the Klan which lynched many.

    And you apparently like the guy. You defend him here.,

    And since you think War is Hell, and apparently adopt Sherman's view of things, how about his direction to kill all the buffalo to starve all the Native Americans.  

    Genocide okay with you too?

    Parent

    His excuse was he grew up (none / 0) (#190)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 11:39:06 PM EST
    around people who fell over themselves trying to make excuses for people like Forrest.

    And some of those people are apparently still around.

    Parent

    Trump's dream running mate (none / 0) (#197)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 27, 2016 at 12:00:58 AM EST
    Forrest also presided over the cold-blooded  slaughter of dozens of disarmed black prisoners at Fort Pillow.

    Not as bad as demo "Harry" Byrd though..

    Parent

    Wait...that's the guy who (none / 0) (#105)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 02:45:51 PM EST
    posts pictures of Obama with a bone in his nose and of watermelon patches on the Whitehouse lawn..

    And seriously, what kind of mind "has fun" contemplating children growing up surrounded by poverty and violence?

    Probably the same type of mind that would have Fun putting big "Cs" on rental applications.

    The type of mind (such as it is) that could actually get inspired by someone like Trump.

    Parent

    One more time (none / 0) (#120)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 04:25:09 PM EST
    Jondee, if you can't take the heat, why did you approve of all the nasties about Bush??

    I mean, grow up.

    Parent

    Oh, I think jondee can handle it (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:01:48 PM EST
    It is not what it says about him.

    It is what it says about someone who posts racist attacks on Obama.

    Parent

    Before you start telling people (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by Yman on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 07:53:37 PM EST
    ... to "grow up", perhaps you should learn to take some personal responsibility.   Before you start whining about some unspecified attacks on Bush by unspecified people,  own the racist garbage that YOU posted on your blog.

    Parent
    One more time. Grown ups (none / 0) (#124)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 04:33:36 PM EST
    and those with even a residual streak of decency and discretion don't post garbage like that, "Harry"

    You're the perfect ambassador for Trump's movement, but not in the way you think you are.

    Parent

    Love the six-year-old thinking.. (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:12:47 PM EST
    those mean other people made me do it.

    From another one of the folks who value "personal responsibility."


    Parent

    For those (none / 0) (#129)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:26:15 PM EST
    who don't know what alt-right is here is your definition. It's basically a conglomerate of many conservative ideologies.

    I guess WIKI is ok (none / 0) (#134)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:40:13 PM EST
    In this case, since there seem to be some "confusion" about the definition, it might be better to let them define themselves.  That is exactly what they did, American Renaissance, a well known alt right website sent this self definition to several journalists including Kasie Hunt who posted it on Twitter in response to Hillarys speech.

    HuffPo discusses that statement and some others.

    Parent

    They sure (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:48:13 PM EST
    are convinced that there's millions of people just like them out there that are waiting to join. Kind of ironic that it's like conservatives that are convinced they are the majority ideology despite losing presidential elections.

    Parent
    I believe there are millions (none / 0) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:55:04 PM EST
    This blog is a heavily moderated leftist site.   Look around.

    Otoh I believe they are very mistaken that dragging there stinking festering carcass out into the sunlight will be "good" for them.

    I actually think that Trump might end up intentionally or not doing the country and even the Republican Party a profound service by elevating Bannon and forcing the nation to confront and discuss this stuff and these people.  

    I perhaps naively believe a majority of the electorate will find it repulsive and frightening.

    Parent

    i believe you are wrong (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by linea on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 07:47:47 PM EST
    i dont believe there are millions of clandestine klan or neo-nazi supporters in this country.  i feel it's just a few cult-like groups with a few dissafected members likely suffering from PPD disorders.

    Parent
    I hope you (5.00 / 2) (#168)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 08:03:01 PM EST
    are right but there are enough of them that they have taken over a major political party in this country.

    The GOP has been dancing with these white nationalists for a good 1/2 a century. Now their dance partner is calling the shots.

    Parent

    You have no idea what you are talking about (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 08:04:13 PM EST
    And btw (none / 0) (#170)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 08:07:43 PM EST
    That's just the formally organized groups.  Which is the actual tip of the iceberg as far as adherents and sympathizers and online followers.  

    But you got a 5!

    This is how we know who you are Trevor.

    Parent

    How? (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 08:26:13 PM EST
    i dont believe there are millions of clandestine klan or neo-nazi supporters in this country.  i feel it's just a few cult-like groups with a few dissafected members likely suffering from PPD disorders.

    Because I agree with this

    No, I have no feelings of hatred and do not display hatred in my posts, unlike some here, who make me laugh. They are just a mirror image of those they claim to detest so much.
    And you know who you are

    Parent

    Because "belief" (none / 0) (#173)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 08:34:45 PM EST
    Has absolutely nothing to do with it.   And not understanding this is fundamentally your problem.

    That is a, rather short, list of actual functioning organizations that are being tracked and monitored by the premier hate watch org in this country.   If yu like I could provide you with a much longer one along with the groups who monitor them. It's a bit of a hobby for me.

    Your or that other persons pathetic "belief" in their existence is almost hilariously irrelevant.   Except it's not.  

    Parent

    Well hardcore, scorched earth libertarians (none / 0) (#178)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 09:01:02 PM EST
    are consistent in their beliefs, but they don't and haven't ever come close to having any significant influence on the national level without the help of their  much larger army of shock troops on the ground composed of xenophobes, religious culture warriors, militia types, and out-and-out white supremacists.

    The relatively small "drown government in a bathtub" faction and the moderate conservatives have been in radical denial for years when it comes to acknowledging the specifics of exactly who makes up the rest of their coalition.

    Parent

    They have also (none / 0) (#180)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 09:06:16 PM EST
    Never come close to admitting their complicity.  That just got way harder.

    Parent
    never underestimate the bottomless (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 09:17:12 PM EST
    capacity for denial.

    I go straight into the belly of the beast and listen to wingnut talk radio about once a month or so. These people are gone. And by that I mean close to clinically paranoid, deeply delusional, and still in the grips of a religious fervor.

    Which is why I now say, in the words of the immortal bard Shakespeare, f*ck the Second Amendment -- until we can get these people medication or therapy or whatever it is they need.

    Parent

    Well maybe (none / 0) (#174)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 08:38:17 PM EST
    you can explain to us how they took over your party and why your candidate (Rubio) thinks they are awesome? Perhaps you can explain why so many members of your own party are unable to stand up to them? Perhaps you can explain in the same way you are always passively aggressively enabling the alt-right on this blog?

    Trump: #crooked hillary
    GOP: #crooked Hillary.

    Question to GOP? Why do you constantly repeat the same phrases Trump does?
    GOP: We hate Trump.

    Rest of America: Well, you sure could have fooled us by your ACTIONS and your WORDS.

    Sheesh.  

    Parent

    I bet the adherents (none / 0) (#172)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 08:30:51 PM EST
    and sympathizers of those groups have enough guns and ammo at this point to pull off a revolution in a Third World country.

    No wonder the right in general is so paranoid about confiscation.

    Those type of people would be the first ones any rational, sane nation would disarm.

    Parent

    Well, you know (none / 0) (#143)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:11:21 PM EST
    it stinks with millennials. I'm sure there are millions that agree with them. My point and I know it wasn't clear is that there are millions more, enough to be a majority in an election, and there are a LOT of them in the south that agree with this kind of stuff. There are enough people in places like SC that agree with their ideology for Trump to carry the state.

    Parent
    I don't thnk it regional (none / 0) (#147)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:31:04 PM EST
    And I live in the red south too, I really don't think this particular thing is regional in that sense.   Many of, especially the most vocal and active, alt right are younger tech savvy and often well educated.   I don't doubt there are southern followers but I really don't think it's regional.

    The kind of dumb inbred racism you and I are familiar with is really the poor cousin of the alt right.   For example European  white nationalists causes is huge with the alt right.   Rachel was talking about this last night and used the example of Donald, no doubt per Bannon, trying to make a talking point of Hillary being the "American Angela Merkel" and it fell totally flat because most of his audience wouldn't know Angela Merkel from Angela Bassett.

    Parent

    Man (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:37:25 PM EST
    you're making it scarier than it already is. It's like all these creepy right wing agenda organizations are joining forces under the Trump flag. This all reminds me of the 90's and the terrorism committed by members of militia groups and Christian Identity groups. Since then they've had 20 more years and the internet.

    Parent
    Good (none / 0) (#150)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:44:25 PM EST
    IMO Trumps embrace of the alt right and his embrace of Nigel Farage which is absolutely the work of Steve Bannon who wants community with the white nationalist parties in England France and Italy is a profoundly terrifying thing.   And I absolutely believe it represents a kind of threat and a level of threat we have not seen or dealt with.  At least in the modern era.

    Not to put to fine a point on it.

    Win or lose in November this is not going away.

    Parent

    No, it's definitely (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 07:02:59 PM EST
    not going away. We the voters can reject it in November however ultimately this is going to be something the GOP is going to have to deal with. It seems right now they have decided just not to deal with it at all.

    Parent
    You are right, Howdy, it (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by caseyOR on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 06:56:48 PM EST
    is not regional, not specific to the South. For decades Idaho has been ground zero for the white nationalist movement. It is tied into the sovereign citizens groups, people like Cliven Bundy and his sons and their cohort, the militias, and the KKK.

    Parent
    It's the same kind of delusion (none / 0) (#161)
    by JanaM on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 07:29:08 PM EST
    that fuels their extremist beliefs.

    Parent
    That statement (none / 0) (#137)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:45:22 PM EST
    could have been written by the Klan 50 years ago.

    Parent
    When someone shows you who they are.... (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 05:47:24 PM EST
    .......believe them.   The first time.

    Parent
    Thank you Maya (none / 0) (#184)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 10:02:17 PM EST