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The Olympics As Political Football

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Events
Posted on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:17:17 AM EST
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Matt Yglesias writes about where you can hold the Olympics without feeling like a moral hypocrite:

With Russia beating up on Georgia at the very same time as the Olympics are underway in Beijing, it’s perhaps inevitable that the conversation has now turned to the propriety of Russia hosting the 2014 winter games while under the rule of a “bad actor” regime. This, combined with the boomlet earlier this year for the idea of boycotting the Beijing games, makes me wonder if it wouldn’t be better to adopt a policy of trying to award the Olympics only to unimportant countries.

Well, that sounds nice and all, but of course it will not work, because at bottom, the Olympics are a big commercial enterprise. Whoever ponies up the money, gets the games. And yes, lots of times out and out bribery of IOC officials is involved. I was struck by this part of Matt's piece though:

A rule like “the United States gets to host Olympics but great power rivals whose governments we don’t approve of don’t” has a certain appeal from a U.S. point of view but it doesn’t seem likely to be adopted.

What strikes me about it is couldn't you make a good argument for boycotting the Olympics in the United States given the last 7 years of an unprovoked invasion of Iraq, use of torture, kangaroo star chambers in Guantanamo, evisceration of the rule of law, etc.? Myself, I am past seeing the Olympics as a political event. I no longer believe hosting an Olympics confers any moral legitimacy or acceptance. In some ways, just the opposite.

I do have a proposal for where to have the Summer Olympics at least - just do them in Athens every 4 years. Hell, they invented the Olympics, let's just do it there every 4 years.

Speaking for me only

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    The Olympics As Political Football | 95 comments (95 topical)

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    Thank you! (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Jim J on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:25:06 AM EST
    The only truly historically accurate and fair thing to do is to hold the summer games in Greece every four years. They've shown they can handle it.

    That leaves the winter games, a modern addition. Which means Switzerland, a neutral country, is the logical choice there.

    All moot points, none of it would ever happen. Too many dollars at stake.

    As as long as we're talking about going... (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:28:50 AM EST
    ...Old School, let's have everyone compete naked like they used to.  Wouldn't have to worry about sex testing that way!

    [ Parent ]
    actually (none / 0) (#5)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:33:40 AM EST
    it gotten a lot more complicated than the old school visual indicators.

    Link

    Edinanci Silva

    Born with both male and female sex organs, the Brazilian judo player had surgery in the mid-90s so that she could live and compete as a woman.

    [ Parent ]

    however (none / 0) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:34:50 AM EST
    I am all for opympics Au Natural

    [ Parent ]
    Completely agree with Athens as the (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by bridget on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 05:28:25 PM EST
    permantent place for the Summer Olys

    and like you said it is not only truly historical but it is also a very beautiful place. I lived in Athens for almost a year. Love Greece. Unfortunately for Greece four years ago lots of folks decided to save their money for the upcoming soccer world cup and so we saw lots of empty seats.

    This subject comes up every four years lately and for a while I actually thought Athens would be selected as the permanent site but then ... nothing.

    Switzerland is certainly a country for the Winter games. I have to give that one some thought.

    Sometimes it does feel the US forgot they started a couple wars and that there is no end to it ... yet.
    Handy to be a powerful. You get to make the rules and feel good about yourself doing it. It seems.

    [ Parent ]

    Athens forever (5.00 / 0) (#7)
    by Demi Moaned on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:35:53 AM EST
    Really that seems like a sensible proposal (even though it has about zero chance of being adopted).

    ouldn't you make a good argument for boycotting the Olympics in the United States given the last 7 years of an unprovoked invasion of Iraq, use of torture, kangaroo star chambers in Guantanamo, evisceration of the rule of law, etc.?

    An unimpeachable argument, IMO. Someone had a diary a few weeks ago at DailyKos about boycotting the Beijing Olympics. I replied to the effect that we really had no standing to call for the boycott of anyone else's Olympics. I got an irate reply from the diarist about the censorship and repression in China. But it all struck me as so much special pleading.

    The greatest disillusionment (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:36:09 AM EST
    for me came when I realized that the notion that the United States is "the greatest and rightest country in the world" is just propaganda.

    China is probably awfuler than the US is, but of course, we're complicit because we loves us our cheap Chinese-slave-labor made products.  So are we really the good guys?  Besides, we owe them money so how could we tell them we are boycotting them?

    After watching the Olympics, I suspect that China is more technically astute than we are.  We've lost that race already.

    The winter games will be held in Canada.  Canada is a relatively good player.

    It's all relative.

    sometimes I think Canada is the last sane (none / 0) (#9)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:38:31 AM EST
    country in the world.  I spent a couple of years working there and have considered citizenship ever since.
    it is a wonderful place to live and work.

    [ Parent ]
    New Zealand? (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by oldpro on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 12:22:43 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Ok, I'm going to be the (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by dk on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:48:03 AM EST
    simplistic, naive one and put forward the argument that, even in spite of all the crass commercialism, and the obvious flaws of many nations, the Olympics is still primarily about international goodwill/healthy competition between nations, and encouraging positive goals for young people through sport.

    It seems like the only thing that the nations of the world can agree on is having these games every couple of years.  Do we really want to do away with that over arguments over where they should be held?

    Not necessarily true (none / 0) (#17)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 11:23:45 AM EST
    Some of these countries, China being one, use harsh training methods and force athletes to compete.

    CNN had a documentary about Chinese kindergarten aged children in "training," having to hold hand stands for 3 minutes, and then immediately do 60 situps.

    If the child became a great athlete, it would elevate the lifestyle of the whole family.

    Not the life of a child.

    And then we could talk all day about the cheating with high tech drugs.

    [ Parent ]

    "encouraging positive goals... (none / 0) (#31)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 12:35:33 PM EST
    ...for young people through sport."

    A position some feel China has taken a little too much to heart, especially with their female gymnastic team.

    Olympic athletes are supposed to be at least 16 y/o. As Bela Karolyi said, with regard to the Chinese "woman's" gymnastics team, "If you look close, you can see they still have their baby teeth."

    The Chinese team's average weight of their (at least, supposedly) 16 year-old gymnasts is around 60 lbs. I have a 6 y/o who weighs 62 lbs.

    Oh yeah, anyone else hear about the TV footage of the opening ceremonies supplied by the Chinese? It had been "photoshopped" to make the fireworks  and stuff look much better than it actually was...

    [ Parent ]

    Much better? (none / 0) (#45)
    by cymro on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 03:40:42 PM EST
    It had been "photoshopped" to make the fireworks and stuff look much better than it actually was...

    "Much better" strikes me as a gross exaggeration. Even if they did fake the firework "footprints," the vast majority of the show, including the fireworks, was real. And the entire performance was, IMO, an order of magnitude more spectacular than anything ever previously attempted. It made the typical superbowl halftime show look like a kindergarten play.

    So the Chinese break the world record for spectacular public performances by a factor of 10, and you are carping about a tiny detail not being perfect. This is not a case of complaining that "the glass is half empty," its complaining that one drop from an overflowing glass was spilled.

    [ Parent ]

    Huh. "Tiny detail not being perfect" (none / 0) (#47)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 04:38:09 PM EST
    strikes me as a gross understatement.

    They, with months and months of advance planning, and months of advance work in their special effects studio, created fake stuff and then after the event quickly photoshopped it into the real images of the event before releasing those videos to the news agencies.

    They friggin' cheated. And they planned to cheat from the get-go.

    Sure, it's a gnat on a elephant's @ss, but if it was so insignificant, why do it in the first place? What other "insignificant" things did they/are they cheating on?

    [ Parent ]

    I mean, (none / 0) (#48)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 04:44:07 PM EST
    what other "insignificant" things did they/are they cheating on besides the fireworks and the little girl who "sang" at the opening ceremony?

    A pretty girl who won national fame after singing at the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games was only miming.

    Wearing a red dress and pigtails, Lin Miaoke charmed a worldwide audience with a rendition of "Ode to the Motherland".

    But the [real] singer was Yang Peiyi, who was not allowed to appear because she is not as "flawless" as nine-year-old Lin.



    [ Parent ]
    So she's the Chinese version (none / 0) (#49)
    by pie on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 05:02:38 PM EST
    of Milli Vanilli?

    [ Parent ]
    Sure, (none / 0) (#51)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 05:15:51 PM EST
    except that Milli Vanilli was not gvt fakery. This girl and the faked opening ceremony footage is.

    [ Parent ]
    You know what else was a shocking fake? (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by tree on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 05:20:19 PM EST
    Those Chinese muses weren't really flying in the air, and Li Ning wasn't really ascending to the Olympic torch on his own power! I'm shocked, I say, shocked!  

    [ Parent ]
    Seriously? (none / 0) (#58)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 05:27:29 PM EST
    Someone as smart as you didn't realize the muses and Ning were doing a stunt? Now I'm shocked.

    [ Parent ]
    Seriously, someone (none / 0) (#60)
    by tree on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 05:35:49 PM EST
    as smart as you didn't realize that the fireworks were enhanced when the NBC commentators told you that they were before they happened? Frankly, I ould tell they were enhanced without being told. That's my point. If their enhancement was shocking to you, then why were the flying muses not shocking. Sounds like faux outrage to me.

      Here's another "shocker"- the graphic readouts of swimmer names on the swim lanes? Not really there. Graphical enhancement.  

    [ Parent ]

    Wow. You are smart. (none / 0) (#63)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 05:47:21 PM EST
    Smarter than most, apparently. Congrats.
    Gao Xiaolong, head of the visual effects team for the ceremony, said it had taken almost a year to create the 55-second sequence. Meticulous efforts were made to ensure the sequence was as unnoticeable as possible: they sought advice from the Beijing meteorological office as to how to recreate the hazy effects of Beijing's smog at night, and inserted a slight camera shake effect to simulate the idea that it was filmed from a helicopter.

    "Seeing how it worked out, it was still a bit too bright compared to the actual fireworks," he said. "But most of the audience thought it was filmed live - so that was mission accomplished."



    [ Parent ]
    I knew it was enhanced because (none / 0) (#67)
    by tree on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 06:14:58 PM EST
    I've seen that stuff many times before. I also knew it was enhanced because I WAS TOLD IT WAS ENHANCED as I saw it, by NBC commentators, who knew it was enhanced because they were told it was. It doesn't take a lot of smarts, just a good set of eyes or a good set of ears. One or the other would do.

      The intent of all visual effects, no matter who does them, are to be as seamless as possible and to appear as real as possible. There is no "cheating" here. It is simply putting on a show.

    [ Parent ]

    As I said, (none / 0) (#71)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 06:30:00 PM EST
    since according to the expert on the special effect most people were fooled, and you weren't, you must be smarter than most.

    This has been fun. Good night.

    PS: Does your use of all-caps indicate outrage?

    [ Parent ]

    No, my use of caps indicates that (none / 0) (#79)
    by tree on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 11:22:52 PM EST
    I have mentioned that capitalized fact 3 times before and apparently you weren't able to read it when it wasn't capitalized. If you had read it you wouldn't keep insisting that I could only have known that the sequence was enhanced because I'm extra smart, and not because I have a working set of ears. I thought the caps might help because your eyesight might be impaired. I guess that's not the problem.

     No one was trying to keep a secret about what that opening sequence was, they were simply trying to put on a good show for the audience. Sometimes putting on a good show involves fooling the audience as to exactly what they are seeing.

     This was an entertainment program, not a news event that demanded reality. Entertainment allows for enhancement, whether graphical in nature or otherwise, and if the enhancement is good, it will fool some people. If its really good it will fool a lot of people. Just as good special effects will look real and good stunt work will look like the action hero actor is really taking life-threatening risks.  This does not equal "cheating", unless you think that every movie ever made is a "cheat".  Maybe you do.

    Good night.

     

    [ Parent ]

    has more to do with (none / 0) (#83)
    by bigbay on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:33:17 AM EST
    the promotion of Han nationalism and ethnic purity.

    [ Parent ]
    in regards (none / 0) (#84)
    by bigbay on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:34:44 AM EST
    to the 'cute' girl

    [ Parent ]
    Outrage fatigue (none / 0) (#50)
    by Valhalla on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 05:10:20 PM EST
    Yes, this is bad.  But I'm so tired of people freaking about every little thing, can't work up much outrage on this one.

    [ Parent ]
    Faux outrage (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by tree on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 05:23:33 PM EST
    leads to early outrage fatigue.

    [ Parent ]
    Me either. (none / 0) (#53)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 05:17:58 PM EST
    But I accept it for what it is. Which, apparently, some others here can't bring themselves to do...

    [ Parent ]
    If this is an example of you "accepting" (none / 0) (#90)
    by cymro on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:26:55 AM EST
    ... something for what it is, I'd hate to get into an argument with you.

    [ Parent ]
    \think Marni Nixon, the (none / 0) (#88)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:51:01 AM EST
    singing voice of many a Hollywood star.

    [ Parent ]
    It was much more than "photoshop", (none / 0) (#52)
    by tree on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 05:15:57 PM EST
    please. It was a visual effect created by graphical overlay. Much more sophisticated than Photoshop. And BTW, if you were listening to the NBC coverage they mentioned that it was a visual effect and not just fireworks when the "firework footprints" were shown. I know the NBC audio is pretty boring to listen to, but any one who was listening was informed of exactly what they were seeing. I guess you weren't since you think it was a revelation.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, (none / 0) (#57)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 05:23:57 PM EST
    photoshop is a term that underplays the amount of time and effort and technologiy it took to do it, but is a pretty accurate term at capturing the intent.  
    Gao Xiaolong, head of the visual effects team for the ceremony, said it had taken almost a year to create the 55-second sequence. Meticulous efforts were made to ensure the sequence was as unnoticeable as possible: they sought advice from the Beijing meteorological office as to how to recreate the hazy effects of Beijing's smog at night, and inserted a slight camera shake effect to simulate the idea that it was filmed from a helicopter.

    "Seeing how it worked out, it was still a bit too bright compared to the actual fireworks," he said. "But most of the audience thought it was filmed live - so that was mission accomplished."



    [ Parent ]
    Just as the intent of rigging the muses with (none / 0) (#61)
    by tree on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 05:39:44 PM EST
    wires was to make the audience feel that the muses were flying. That's what shows do, the good ones at least. There is no reasonable outrage about the fireworks footprints. It was a visual effect for the audience.

    [ Parent ]
    Who said anything about outrage? (none / 0) (#65)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 05:58:27 PM EST
    Are you trying to make me defend something I didn't say, and in fact, have already disavowed? (See my comment #53)

    However, to conflate live people floating through the air over a stage on circus wires and a digital special effect who's intent was to appear absolutely real and to fool as many people as possible (though not you, of course) is kind of silly, imo.

    [ Parent ]

    You called it cheating. (none / 0) (#66)
    by tree on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 06:09:33 PM EST
    So are you now trying to say that cheating doesn't outrage you?

    They, with months and months of advance planning, and months of advance work in their special effects studio, created fake stuff and then after the event quickly photoshopped it into the real images of the event before releasing those videos to the news agencies.

    They friggin' cheated. And they planned to cheat from the get-go.

    Excuse me for thinking the above post was a display of outrage on your part. When people use the term "friggin' cheated" I assume they are outraged to some extent.
     The video sequence was part of the opening ceremonies. It was described as a video sequence as it aired on NBC. It wasn't the first time such a thing has happened in a show. It won't be the last time. You are certainly hammering over and over again on this for something that you now claim didn't outrage you.

    [ Parent ]

    Yep, (none / 0) (#69)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 06:24:17 PM EST
    I guess this kind of Chinese gvt-sponsored cheating along with their "heart of the nation" Lin "Milli Vanilli" Miaoke doesn't really outrage me any more, although it does surprise me when others can't accept it for what it is.

    What is interesting is seeing how long you'll continue to hammer over and over again that a circus act is the same as gvt-photoshopped images...

    [ Parent ]

    Its all illusion, baby. (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by tree on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 06:29:34 PM EST
    Some of it is better than others. And its not "cheating" anymore than any other Olympics ceremony is, unless you can point to some arcane rule that says that video enhancement isn't allowed. NBC and ABC would have been outed years ago for "cheating" if it isn't.

    [ Parent ]
    I am trying to remember (5.00 / 5) (#13)
    by Steve M on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:49:20 AM EST
    what we accomplished with the mutual boycotts of the 1980 and 1984 Olympics.  We did accomplish something, right?

    I guess we conveyed the message that we didn't much care for the USSR, and the USSR conveyed the message that they didn't like us much either.  Well, I can see how people might have been unclear on that but for the boycott.

    I remember what we accomplished (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by bridget on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 05:46:20 PM EST
    American gymnasts won a lot of medals and stars were made. Ex.: Mary Lou ...

    Oh, and there is that sad little thing about all the countries who couldn't participate because they had to make the decision to stay home as well out of loyalty to the USSR? Some stayed home to show loalty to the US as well. In the end only the athletes were hurt after years of Oly training.

    I am still unhappy with Carter when I think of Olys 1980. Of course, Russia would stay home the next time around. They had, too. Something about losing face and such.

    [ Parent ]

    Well, I don't know what we accomplished ... (none / 0) (#40)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 02:05:11 PM EST
    but I still have one of these.

    [ Parent ]
    My friend's daughter (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by pie on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:56:59 AM EST
    is in China covering the games as part of a journalism intership with Emerson College and is blogging.

    On opening night, she and some friends (who'd been allowed to view the run-through earlier) went to a crowded expat bar to watch the ceremony.  When the US team came into the stadium, everyone cheered wildly.

    Then the camera switched to a shot of Bush.  Immediately, everyone in the bar started booing loudly.

    Makes ya proud, don't it.

    Oh pie (none / 0) (#72)
    by weltec2 on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 07:32:09 PM EST
    that does make me proud indeed. We are united as a nation after all. (heheheh...)

    [ Parent ]
    Oy. (none / 0) (#75)
    by pie on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 08:29:51 PM EST
    On the bright side, I missed the US men win the 4X100 relay the other night- for some reason (media coverage), I don't enjoy watching the Olympics anymore.  I watched it on the 'net and loved that I didn't have to listen to all the crap.

    It was a great win for those guys.

    Then I got to see a shot of the idiot-in-chief in the stands waving around a little flag.

    How embarrassing to be "led" by such a joker.

     

    [ Parent ]

    Honestly... (none / 0) (#80)
    by weltec2 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 12:36:50 AM EST
    "America doesn't have any problems."

    He's "a sunny guy."

    [ Parent ]

    My problem with the Olympics (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by shoephone on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 11:28:49 AM EST
    is that professional, multi-million dollar salary-making athletes are now allowed to compete. It makes a joke out of what the games are supposed to be. The basketetball games are not to be taken seriously. Kobe Bryant, Lebron James and the rest of those multi-millionaire jokers should not be allowed anywhere near the Olympics.

    Problem is... (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 11:46:15 AM EST
    especially regarding basketball, we got tired of losing with our college kids.

    I liked it better with the college kids too, I rather lose with them than win with an NBA All-Star team...but that's the reasoning.  Considering the track record of our pro ballers (lousy bronze in '04), may as well play the college kids, they would be hard pressed to do worse:)

    [ Parent ]

    What I don't understand... (5.00 / 0) (#21)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 11:54:16 AM EST
    ...is how NBA players can be considered amateurs in any sense of the word.

    "amateur:  a person who engages in a pursuit for pleasure and not as a profession."
    --Merriam Webster  

    The NBA swindled the IOC into being another marketing arm of the league.  

    [ Parent ]

    In fairness.... (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 12:01:45 PM EST
    I don't see many amatuers in the Olympics...the athletes are getting paid whether above the table or below.

    Like when the old USSR said their Olympic team was composed of military personel and government workers...when all they did was train in their sport 365 days a year.  If they were amatuer athletes, then I'm an astronaut.

    [ Parent ]

    These days... (1.00 / 0) (#25)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 12:17:17 PM EST
    ...a lot of economic support for high profile athletes comes in the form of endorsement money. Like Michael Phelps.  He's not getting paid to swim, he's getting paid because he's a highly recognizable/marketable swimmer.  

    An athlete has to be able to buy food and have a place to live.  Whether it's endorsements or payment for living/training expenses (like college athletes), I don't begrudge them that.  But when their income is from playing a sport professionally, that's a horse of another color all together.  

    [ Parent ]

    Honestly... (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 12:24:31 PM EST
    I don't see the difference....whether you get paid 5 million a year to play basketball or only get free room and board to play basketball, you're still a professional basketball player.  It's how you make a living.

    [ Parent ]
    I guess... (none / 0) (#33)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 12:53:52 PM EST
    ...it is a matter of degree in that regard.  

    Hence the arguement that college athletes should just get paid a salary.  As the thinking is that college athletics these days are little more than a developmental league for the NBA/NFL/NHL.

    [ Parent ]

    Absolutely.... (none / 0) (#37)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 01:30:09 PM EST
    college athletes should be paid more than just in scholarships if the sport they compete in makes money for the school, like mens basketball or football.  Or at the least the NCAA should let them take endorsement money or advances from agents.  They're basically slave labor.

    [ Parent ]
    No ifs about it... (none / 0) (#38)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 01:40:02 PM EST
    ...football and basketball are HUGE money makers for the schools and the conferences.  Men's football and basketball also pay for the other less well supported/attended sports.  

    I remember it being a big story here when the NCAA wouldn't let Jeremy Bloom play football for CU if he went out on the professional ski circuit.  They're rather fanatical about protecting themselves at the expense of the athletes.

    [ Parent ]

    The NCAA is no better... (none / 0) (#86)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:36:47 AM EST
    than the IOC when it comes to the shadiness factor.

    Crooked, crooked, crooked.

    [ Parent ]

    As I recall (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Steve M on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 12:04:58 PM EST
    the reason we started sending professionals is that most of the other countries were already doing so.

    Prior to 1992, athletes were barred from the Olympics if they played professionally in the US, but they could participate with no problem if they played professionally in Europe.  I'm not sure that made a lot of sense.

    [ Parent ]

    I like it (none / 0) (#73)
    by weltec2 on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 07:36:24 PM EST
    because it highlights the absurdity of how much they get paid when they lose to athletes who get paid a fraction of that they do but still do it because they love doing it.

    [ Parent ]
    There's no practical way... (none / 0) (#24)
    by sweetthings on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 12:10:13 PM EST
    To sort out 'amateur' and 'professional' athletes. Virtually anyone who competes at the Olympic level takes in a LOT of money, either directly or indirectly. They have to. There's no other way to sustain the level of training an Olympic athlete requires. And as others have pointed out, that rule never applied across the board anyway.

    The Olympics is supposed to be the best of the best competing for gold. Jokers they may be, but it's hard to argue that Kobe and Lebron aren't among basketball's greatest players.

    [ Parent ]

    I stand by my original comment (none / 0) (#34)
    by shoephone on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 01:00:32 PM EST
    They don't belong in the Olympic Games. I'm not a big fan of the endorsements for amateurs either, but I do not see them as being in the same league (pardon the pun!) as multi-million dollar salaries for spoiled brats who often end up with more media attention for their alcohol and drug-induced crimes then they do for their athletic ability.

    But I have to admit, I soured on the NBA long ago. And for football, I only watch college ball there too.

    [ Parent ]

    BTD, best do a bit of research, (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by cpinva on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 12:32:57 PM EST
    before assuming (wrongly) that the politics involved in the modern olympics is strictly a modern invention, it isn't.

    the original olympics were all about sport, politics and money. just because NBC wasn't involved (i don't think!), doesn't mean money wasn't, it was, very much so. the winners received not only the accolades of their peers, but prize money, as well as gifts, etc., from their home governments. they were the first professional atheletes, preceeding the gladiators by several hundred years.

    as well, even though wars stopped during the run of the games, winning atheletes contributed to their country's feelings of moral and political superiority, same as today.

    one final note: before extolling the virtues of the ancients, consider that, in the original games, women not only weren't allowed to compete, they couldn't even watch. any woman caught on the sacred grounds was executed.

    personally, i'll take indoor plumbing.

    After witnessing Hillary run for Prez in the US (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by bridget on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 05:57:57 PM EST
    in the 21. Century I am not particular in the mood of beating up the Ancients right now.

    Who would have thunk even four years ago that a woman candidate would have been treated with such brutality while Mr. Edward's problems were ignored by the press, pundits, commentator, blogs and what not. Talking about a press conspiracy in support of "the male."

    just saying

    [ Parent ]

    Indoor plumbing! (none / 0) (#32)
    by oldpro on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 12:36:54 PM EST
    Good choice.

    My grandmother would approve.

    [ Parent ]

    Whether it's 'Dr. J' or (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by oldpro on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 12:34:57 PM EST
    Maria Talchief or Ella Fitzgerald...I like to watch the best do what they do.

    The Olympics, for the most part, are diverting and entertaining...and touching,sometimes, too...as in the case of both the Chinese and the American men's artistic gymnastic team competitions last night.

    The Mariners, on the other hand...

    Wait'll next year, sigh...

    Oh, the Mariners. (none / 0) (#35)
    by shoephone on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 01:03:50 PM EST
    Second year in a row I cringe when visiting family members want to go to a game.

    Hard to believe now we once had the likes of Randy Johnson, Tino Martinez, Griffey, etc.

    Yeah - maybe next year!

    [ Parent ]

    When the Big Unit (none / 0) (#81)
    by oldpro on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 02:07:34 AM EST
    left, I knew we were doomed.  All downhill from there, tradewise. A-Rod?  Sheesh...

    [ Parent ]
    I was watching... (5.00 / 0) (#42)
    by desertswine on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 02:32:26 PM EST
    the women's beach volleyball and I thought that maybe they have too many sports in the Olympics.

    Maybe at this point they should have mud wrestling or scat singing.

    I read that as... (none / 0) (#74)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 07:47:50 PM EST
    ...scat "flinging".  I can think of a few people who could win gold medals at that!

    [ Parent ]
    I do like the music... (none / 0) (#87)
    by desertswine on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:47:16 AM EST
    that nbc plays when they're doing promos for upcoming events. If I'm not mistaken, it's the theme music from the old Bruce Campbell scifi-western tv series "The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr."

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe it's just because I'm not a kid anymore, (none / 0) (#1)
    by andgarden on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:24:37 AM EST
    but to me it seems like the Olympics has gotten less interesting and less important since Atlanta. This year does seem big, but maybe that's just because of the controversy.

    Media coverage (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Coral on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 11:52:32 AM EST
    of the Olympics has gotten worse and worse.

    This year a welcome addition has been the availability of live and taped coverage over the Internet. I am enjoying watching unfiltered events focusing solely on the athletic performance for the first time in years. And skipping all the commercials and sappy background stories.

    If you are going to include all nations, then politics should be put aside.

    [ Parent ]

    I stopped watching several (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 12:24:56 PM EST
    Olympics ago because I could not tolerate NBC's pre-packaged tripe and the lack of the thrill of watching the games live.  I remember watching live coverage at odd hours when I was a kid.  They'd cover all of the athletes - not just the American ones.  Nadia Comenici was particularly memorable - in the current American-centric coverage we get she could never have been a star in the US.  I loved watching athletes regardless of where they were from get their moment in the sun - it made the whole thing special - and made it the international event it is supposed to be.  

    On Friday of the Opening Ceremonies MSNBC was checking in with reporters as the OCs were starting and ongoing, but wouldn't show any of it live - all in the interest of upping their ratings for the evening "show".  Annoying.   I dipped in for the evening coverage only to find the grating Bob Costas yammering on and cuttng to commercial to come back to list the countries we didn't see at the break.  Given the fact that the program was not live, they could have covered everyone, but they didn't....

    [ Parent ]

    I use the 'mute' button a LOT (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Valhalla on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 03:53:48 PM EST
    Also, today I found out that the online broadcasts do not include yammering commentators so I'll be watching quite a few events that way.

    I like Michael Phelps, love to watch him swim, and wish him well.  He seems like a good guy but maybe that's just a carefully cultivated image, I don't really care either way.  But I'm already so sick of hearing about his quest to break all the records for gold medals in the universe that I find myself almost rooting for other swimmers in some of the contests.  

    [ Parent ]

    I learned my lesson and tape everything (none / 0) (#68)
    by bridget on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 06:16:09 PM EST
    and then watch my tape the next day. Fast forward thru all the commercials and fluff.

    of course, I have to stay away from the news and the  Oly sites and can't participate in TL Oly talks, unfortunately ... but I don't want to be spoilt

    re Phelps
    I know exactly what you are talking about. Was tired about the Phelps brouhaha four years ago, too. It's not his fault the Tv coverage is such but thats how it is ... I was actually rooting for his fellow team mate during the 400m relay swim. And that was just the beginning.

    Also, every Olys I feel like writing NBC since they seem to forget that these are the Olympic Games and not the American Games. Cause we miss a lot of sports that way. I never do because in the past others have done it every four years for me. Hence the taping ;-)

    [ Parent ]

    One year -- maybe it Atlanta 1996 (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Valhalla on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 09:08:18 PM EST
    The number and insipidity of the personal segments about athletes was markedly worse than others and I did rouse myself to complain by letter to NBC.

    I like to hear about athletes from other countries too.  Not, as they are usually described, only for whether they are a threat to the US competitors, but their own stories.  Esp. since a lot of them must have incredible stories of just getting to compete.

    [ Parent ]

    Absolutely ... and I got another pet peeve (none / 0) (#77)
    by bridget on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:19:36 PM EST
    Foreign national anthems are great, too.

    I also enjoy listening to the national anthems of the other countries not just the American one. And at the Olys we have the opportunity to hear v. different ones. It's always great to hear one I haven't heard before.

    I remember hearing the Russian one, very beautiful IMO, a lot in the good old days (maybe because they just had better TV coverage) and finally heard it once or so in Athens.

    Germans did really well in the competition, too, but I think I did hear their beautiful song finally one time.

    P.S. When they played the American anthem for Phelps and it was cut short, wasn't that a first? It sounded odd, too. They played the first part over and over IIRC. I don't think that ever happend before.  

    [ Parent ]

    Of course that was political too ... (none / 0) (#41)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 02:10:23 PM EST
    Romania at that time was seen as "good," because they had stood up to the Soviets.  That was the reason Nadia got so much coverage in the US.

    But there's been a lot of live coverage this year.  The swimming and men's gymnastics last night were both live.

    [ Parent ]

    Until I focus on the individual performances (none / 0) (#14)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:51:16 AM EST
    I feel the same way.  But watching that Chinese gymnast on the rings last night, or Michael Phelps swim, or 100 other examples is still thrilling to me.

    It is hard to tune out the noise though.

    [ Parent ]

    "Olympics confers any moral legitimacy" (none / 0) (#4)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:30:10 AM EST
    its more like buying a fig leaf of legitimacy

    I mentioned.... (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:40:08 AM EST
    on a thread the other day that the Olympics should only be held in free countries.

    Problem is...are there any truly free countries with spotless human rights records?  I'm stumped and can't think of one...which is a tragedy.

    Permanent site would get the focus (none / 0) (#11)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:47:47 AM EST
    back on the sports, where it belongs.

    Unfortunatley there is too much vested interest in maintaining the current system.  How could officials get trips, not to mention bribes, for site selection?  Also it was clear to me from the commentary of the NBC folks during the opening ceremony that they regard international travel as one of the things (in addition to their multimillion dollar salaries) that sets them apart as an elite class. At times it was like listening to travel lifestyles of the rich and famous.  Bob Costas would get so bored going to Greece every year!

    But I do think political football would be a great event to add to the agenda in London 2012.

    This is kinda (none / 0) (#16)
    by andgarden on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 11:02:26 AM EST
    funny:

    BEIJING (AP) -- After the first few days of the Beijing Games, some cracks have appeared in China's perfect party -- empty seats at the venues, disappointing crowds at the Olympic grounds, ticket scalping, a lack of buzz around the city and even official acknowledgment of trickery during the opening ceremony.

    International Olympic Committee officials urged Beijing organizers Tuesday to let more people into the Olympic Green -- the centerpiece zone of the games where most of the main venues are located -- and find ways to fill up the arenas.

    [. . .]

    Wang Wei, spokesman for the Beijing organizing committee, acknowledged there were not enough people in the green and organizers were encouraging more to come.

    Wang said about 40,000 people passed through the area on Monday. The IOC suggested the figure should be increased to up to 200,000 daily and that organizers issue more passes to allow visitors into the green, which covers 2,856 acres (1,156 hectares) in northern Beijing.

    ''We have taken this up with organizers and the politicians,'' IOC marketing commission chairman and executive board member Gerhard Heiberg told The Associated Press. ''They have promised an improvement today and further improvement tomorrow. We hope this is going to take place. We need more people to have a higher atmosphere.''

    Among those affected were the Olympics' global sponsors, who are each paying tens of millions of dollars to be associated with the games but have complained that few visitors have been let through to see their pavilions.
    Heh (none / 0) (#43)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 02:57:09 PM EST
    Crowds too small in China. Gotta be a first.

    [ Parent ]
    Image is everything... (none / 0) (#44)
    by desertswine on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 03:17:15 PM EST
    and nothing is real.

    Even the singer was faking.

    [ Parent ]

    I wonder (none / 0) (#85)
    by bigbay on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:40:30 AM EST
    if a lot of the factory workers who were shut down these two weeks went back to their home provinces

    [ Parent ]
    athens (none / 0) (#36)
    by Turkana on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 01:07:25 PM EST
    too humid and smoggy.

    yglesias actually suggested the usa? because we're exceptionalismistic?

    Sad (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Valhalla on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 05:21:40 PM EST
    There actually are many interesting arguments to both sides of the politics-Olympics debate.  But the bit BTD quotes is sadly not one of them.

    As long as we have countries, it's pretty much impossible to separate out politics from the Olympics entirely.  And there's no nation that's sitting safely in a glass house.  But that doesn't also mean that every nation, no matter their policies, should be allowed to compete.

    Personally, I think any country that does not allow female athletes to try out for the Olympics should be out.  I understand that a lot of people would not agree.

    But there needs to be some sort of absolute minimum standard that the nations agree to, and if you fall below it, then you're out.  Like South Africa was barred during apartheid, or if a country's busy nuking its neighbors, that sort of thing.

    [ Parent ]

    Or if you're at war... (none / 0) (#82)
    by oldpro on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 02:10:25 AM EST
    invading another soverign country.

    Imagaine what a fuss THAT rule woud create!  Both USA and USSR would have gone into a tailspin if their athletes were barred.

    Best way I can think of to prevent/end government-inspired wars.

    [ Parent ]

    original games: Olympia (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:56:52 AM EST
    [really hot in summer]

    [ Parent ]
    been there (none / 0) (#91)
    by Turkana on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 02:48:28 PM EST
    not a lot of infrastructure, and the locals wouldn't want much more.

    [ Parent ]
    When we reached Olympia, it dawned on (none / 0) (#92)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 07:21:14 AM EST
    me 9 days of antiquities might be excessive.  

    [ Parent ]
    heh (none / 0) (#93)
    by Turkana on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 10:58:04 AM EST
    we never tire of antiquities. everywhere we went in greece we could have easily stayed twice as long.

    [ Parent ]
    But were you foolish enough to go (none / 0) (#94)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 01:37:45 PM EST
    in July?  

    [ Parent ]
    ahhh- okay (none / 0) (#95)
    by Turkana on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 02:13:02 PM EST
    no, we migrated with the weather. we were in greece in april, which was perfect! i wouldn't attempt greece or italy or spain in the summer.

    [ Parent ]
    I like different countries (none / 0) (#39)
    by BarnBabe on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 01:48:40 PM EST
    I look forward to London. I enjoyed Norway. I like seeing the faces of the local people. And no matter which country is winning (OK, some of those skiers are a bit egotistical)it is great to see the pride and happiness on the faces even if they aren't from our own USA. We should just leave the Olympics out of it. As for Russia, remember, George looked Putin in the eyes and his gut told him he was ok. I wish we would just focus on the athletes and not on the politicians. And that goes for the Pres in the grandstands.

    Technically (none / 0) (#78)
    by Maryb2004 on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:37:27 PM EST
    the original invented Olympics were in Olympia, not Athens.

    But I agree that the modern summer Olympics should always be in Athens.   I'd pick Oslo for the permanent home of the winter games.  

    The Olympics As Political Football | 95 comments (95 topical)

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