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Saturday Night Open Thread

By TChris, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:24:38 PM EST
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In response to the request for a new open thread, here it is.

And in keeping with the weekend's celebration of American history and values:

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    Saturday Night Open Thread | 62 comments (62 topical)

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    Thought this might be a nice change of (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:28:44 PM EST
    pace:

    link

    Wow that guy has some moves. (none / 0) (#6)
    by Teresa on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:41:01 PM EST
    I'm not sure what they classify as dancing, but he is talented.

    Parent
    Teresa...he is what is termed a "popper" (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:43:17 PM EST
    and his moves are spectacular....doesn't hurt that he is double jointed either.  Hope you enjoyed the video...

    Parent
    I'll bet he doesn't get tension headaches like (none / 0) (#13)
    by Teresa on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:04:10 PM EST
    I do! I'd love to just be able to pop my back. I can't imagine being able to do that.

    Parent
    Teresa....hmmm, for myself, I would have (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:16:27 PM EST
    to live with the headaches.  If I tried what he does, I would NEVER be the same!  Go to youtube and check out some of his other videos...

    Parent
    Does he lock? Here's some BBoy-v-BBoy violence! (none / 0) (#27)
    by Ellie on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:55:41 AM EST
    Great locking in this showdown.

    The popper was great; amazing flex and micro-control; very E-Asian style.

    Japan and S-Korea are very strong in P&L. Dancing BBoy/Girl style are national obsessions. (N-Korea, not so much :-P)

    IMO it's the cultural "perfect storm" fascination with martial arts, anime, robotics, vid-games like Dance Dance creating a matrix for BBoy/girl dancing.

    Parent

    Ellie....though not well versed on this stuff, (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 10:39:34 AM EST
    I believe he did some b-boy stuff....check out Robert Muraine for his bio and other videos.

    Parent
    Not an expert either -- would love the skill tho (none / 0) (#60)
    by Ellie on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:22:53 PM EST
    An old friend and roomie from dance school days is a choreographer and she works with all styles of dancers.

    She's a big believer in "cross-training", ie, multi-cultural, multi-skills exchange just makes better dancers, period. It's true!

    I did various styles and used to "plug in" as a workout partner or to do, eg, specialty focus. Wish I still had the knees* cause I love P&L. It was just Breakdancing / BBoy style when I was a yoot. It was everywhere.

    * lumbar, abs, plantar fascia, hip flexors ...

    Parent

    Ellie....what a talent you are...dancing... (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 05:11:25 PM EST
    and your writing skills always bring pleasure here...This kid gave up his chance on So You Think You Can Dance because other than the dances he does, he considered too hard...too bad.  Some of these hip-hop and b-boy/girl dancers have certainly turned out to be talented in many dances.

    Parent
    Brutal for a career, you have to burn for it ... (none / 0) (#62)
    by Ellie on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 07:08:10 PM EST
    ... but I found my true love and still do my share of dancing on the side. :-)

    Parent
    would he be a "meme"? (none / 0) (#54)
    by hellothere on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:33:23 AM EST
    good moves for sure!

    Parent
    Thanks TChris. I just wanted to point out that (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Teresa on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:30:40 PM EST
    BackFromOhio has a nice diary up about Obama's "mental distress" comment about abortion.

    Obama also clarified his statement today (sort of).

    I always forget to check for new diaries from posters and there are some good ones.

    Here's a Happy Thought (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:43:29 PM EST
    Only 198 more days of Bush.

    Or on a bad note, 198 more days of potential damage.

    The Onion has a funny video about it. (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by rjarnold on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:53:49 PM EST
    "Bush Tours America To Survey Damage Caused By His Disastrous Presidency"

    http://www.theonion.com/content/video/bush_tours_america_to_survey

    Parent

    Tech Problems with Commenting (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by wmr on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:34:24 AM EST
    1.  When the comments don't offer Reply, does that mean the comments are closed?

    2.  Sometimes comments are nested, sometimes they aren't, and sometimes I don't even get the option to choose my display.  Me or the site?


    yeah (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:52:04 AM EST
    apparently theres a 200 comment limitation.   You can no longer reply but the post comment box still sits at the bottom.  One is expected not to use it after a thread reaches 200 comments and it's good and right to honor that expectation.

    Parent
    OK thx (none / 0) (#32)
    by wmr on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:10:53 AM EST
    Maybe that 200+ has some effect on the lack of nesting, too.

    Parent
    On the nesting problem with closed threads, (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by alsace on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 05:28:18 AM EST
    Jeralyn answered this for me several weeks ago.
    Go to "Your Preferences," select "Comments," then set the "Comment display mode (overflow)" to "Nested."  

    Parent
    Got it now. Thx (none / 0) (#49)
    by wmr on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 10:00:44 AM EST
    I'd been to the preferences page before, but missed the link to Comments.

    Parent
    Andrew is still "Obama high!" (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by DeborahNC on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:23:21 AM EST
    Whereas, several other devoted Obama bloggers are willing to acknowledge Senator Obama's recent flip-flops, Andy maintains that examination of Obama's actions in the last week will show that he is "...one of the shrewdest--as well as one of the most inspiring--politicians in recent history."

    Andy is showing his delusional side if he characterizes Obama using such glowing terms when others, both left and right, are wondering..."what's going on with Obama?" If the article weren't so unfortunate, it would actually be funny, as in satire. Go read it.

    I view Obama's recent policy reversals and questionable statements as quite troubling. On the other hand, Sullivan states that, get this, "For good measure he was the only candidate last week with ads being broadcasts on Christian radio."  It is frightening how a supporter (Sullivan) of a politician (Obama) can remain so enamored of him, irrespective of blatant and major (to me) changes in the politician's positions, that he will construe the facts, so that "said facts," can continue to be framed and portrayed positively, and tries to spin them in a way that defies reality.

    This type of "follow at all costs" behavior by Obama's fans concerned me during the primary and still causes me a lot of discomfort. A Democracy is in trouble when people believe whatever a leader tells them, even if part of their mind feels a tug from its conscience, telling them otherwise.

    Now, Andrew might be knowingly spinning some of these recent events for all their worth, but why? Is he part of the campaign? Otherwise, Sullivan has lost his bearings, as have others before him, when it comes to "all things Obama."

    Bingo! (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Grace on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:44:57 AM EST
    This type of "follow at all costs" behavior by Obama's fans concerned me during the primary and still causes me a lot of discomfort. A Democracy is in trouble when people believe whatever a leader tells them, even if part of their mind feels a tug from its conscience, telling them otherwise.

    This is why some are bothered by the Hitler comparisons, etc.  

    I'm concerned too, when people follow someone when their conscience tells them they should do otherwise -- but I don't know how you stop that.  What can you do?  It's like the Pied Piper.  Play the pipe and we'll follow you.  

    This is very scary to me.  I think I'd like to move to Argentina where the dollar is still worth more than 10 cents.  

    Parent

    The German people... (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Aqua Blue on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 07:42:00 AM EST
    bought the " the apple pie and Motherhood "...and then it was too late.   Fascism creeps in and then the nation is owned and totally controlled.

    Parent
    I think Andrew "hated" Hillary as (5.00 / 0) (#50)
    by zfran on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 10:36:39 AM EST
    he had stated w/passion soooo many times, that he will take any dem but her. He also was soooo taken with Obama from the get go that maybe he must save face now. I stopped reading and writing him a while back.

    Parent
    Yeah! (3.00 / 2) (#43)
    by flyerhawk on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 08:19:43 AM EST
    As Andy Borowitz recently points out.  Liberal bloggers have noticed a disturbing trend in Barack Obama.  Apparently he is trying to the win the election!.

    Liberal bloggers weren't prepared for this sort of move and they are bristling about this turn towards victory.

    Parent

    When some 70% or more of the country (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Anne on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 07:49:52 AM EST
    think we're headed in the wrong direction, when fewer than 25% think Bush is doing a good job, when a significant majority want the war to end - with polling on just about every major issue before us showing that the country is looking to Democrats to straighten things out and set us back on the right track...Obama could have the job of his dreams by solidifying the actual Democratic base, and homing in on basic, kitchen table issues to win over independents and moderate Reoublicans.

    There is simply no need to shape and change his message so that it is turning off Democrats in droves.  Democrats who now feel they have no ally in their presumptive nominee, Democrats who have waited on the edges of their seats for a nominee who could sell their agenda - otherwise known as a philosphy that is best for the country and the democracy - and now have an overwhelming sense of being sold out.  It's like Obama is openly and without shame cheating on the Democratic party that put him through school and supported him for years - and we are not happy.

    Someone is going to have to explain to me how Obama the Cheater is going to bring together the new wife and the old one and satisfy them both; should he actually be elected, I see at least 2 years of muddled and disorganized messages and people running around with no idea what the heck is going on.  Enter stronger Republicans in 2010, with blame for Democrats and the end of what could have been real Democratic domination and real hope for the country.

    Change we can believe in?  I don't think so.

    Every day (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by magisterludi on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 07:58:33 AM EST
    I see more and more evidence to support my belief that we are all being played- every single voter anywhere in the world. The welfare of the people or the earth itself has become a distant second to multi-national profit.

    I see no "leader" on the horizon to save us. It is up to us, if at all.

    Parent

    Didn't Realize This (5.00 / 0) (#44)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 09:00:33 AM EST
    From TVNewser, July 5, 2008
    Adding to the historic nature of the [Democratic National] convention, the final night, August 28, is the 45th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have a Dream" speech.

    I think the fact that the DNC is bending backwards to accommodate Obama's coronation -- or acceptance speech -- at the 75-000-capacity Invesco Field means they're really trying to make this a HUGE SHOW and making it seem Obama's the 2nd coming of MLK! What nonsense!

    (What happened to JFK, is he under the bus with us now? I didn't get the memo!)

    Now I really hope it rains, no pours, just before he makes his speech.

    It is not an either or (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by MO Blue on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 09:13:12 AM EST
    Obama is MKL, JFK, RFK, Lincoln and numerous others that I have forgotten, all rolled into the ONE.

    Parent
    LOL, of course, duh! :) (5.00 / 0) (#47)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 09:34:10 AM EST
    He's Boy Wonder; The Chosen One.

    A couple of my co-workers (all Obamans), I just learned this weekend, are taking the week off from work to go to Denver.

    I'm sure there are thousands more like them nationwide who'll be making the trek to Colorado, so I suppose they won't have a problem filling up the stadium. It'll be great for the city's economy, that's for sure.

    But I'm assuming all of the hotels and motels within a 20-mile radius of the convention sites are booked, so I cannot imagine where these people will be shacking up.

    And for every Obaman, I'd expect one Hillary supporter and/or one DNC protester to show up too. What a party it'll be!

    Parent

    My hope is that most of the protesters focus on (none / 0) (#58)
    by MO Blue on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:50:46 PM EST
    the issues (FISA, choice, separation of church and state, Iraq etc.) rather than Hillary. Probably won't happen but that IMO would be the most productive.

    Parent
    Too bad Obama can't just move the speech (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 09:38:59 AM EST
    to the Washington, D.C., mall.  But I suspect that it may the backdrop for Obama -- i.e., MLK's speech on big screens in the stadium, Obama in front of it. . . .

    Yes, this apparent coincidence in scheduling was pointed out some time ago by posters here who suggested that it just might mean that the DNC scheduled more than the primary season -- the front-loading of caucuses and of certain states -- to coronate Obama as the nominee.

    Parent

    This is great wartime fare. Will (none / 0) (#52)
    by zfran on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 10:39:58 AM EST
    the troops be able to watch the coronation? If the Denver convention ran short of its money goals, who (ha) will be paying for the venue?!

    Parent
    TChris....Seeing that picture makes me (none / 0) (#4)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:35:16 PM EST
    think of the song, Somebody's Watching Me by Rockwell... :)

    Anyone have Wimbledon predictions? (none / 0) (#5)
    by rjarnold on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:36:40 PM EST
    I say Nadal in five sets. It should be a great match.

    rj...I think Venus is going to beat Serena :) (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:43:46 PM EST


    Parent
    To make up for my denseness (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by BackFromOhio on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:31:22 PM EST
    I'll just report that the Williams sisters won the Womens' Doubles title at Wimbledon this afternoon.  I plan on missing the Sunday a.m. talk shows in favor of Federer-Nadal.  

    Kinda late here on the East Coast - & I'll retire for the night after thanking Teresa for her plug.

    Asta manana....

    Parent

    She already did! (none / 0) (#16)
    by BackFromOhio on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:23:35 PM EST


    Parent
    lol....I know...sleep well. (none / 0) (#20)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:55:28 PM EST


    Parent
    TChris, that is a great vid, thanks n/t (none / 0) (#10)
    by Valhalla on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:49:43 PM EST


    Getting the top Draft Picks (none / 0) (#12)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:02:16 PM EST
    I guess.

    Thanks for the video...heh (none / 0) (#14)
    by MichaelGale on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:08:56 PM EST


    They parted ways wuth Devil ;) (none / 0) (#18)
    by nycstray on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:43:11 PM EST


    Good One! (none / 0) (#19)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:45:12 PM EST
    Really hilarious and to the point.

    Andy Sullivan: Obama's right turn "is wiping (none / 0) (#21)
    by Dan the Man on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:33:56 AM EST
    out every reason to vote for McCain".  I think Obama's winning his target demographic.

    I was hoping it would (5.00 / 0) (#24)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:57:40 AM EST
    be a year later when I would say:  TOLD YOU SO.  

    Parent
    some times I feel cruel (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:45:48 AM EST
    thinking its kind of like saying "I told you so" to child after they look around the corner and see their parents putting all those presents under the tree.

    But then I remind myself that its not a child I'm talking about but grown adults behaving like children and they deserve it.

    Parent

    Well obviously (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Steve M on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:57:51 AM EST
    Obama is just lying when he says stuff that Sullivan likes, and telling the truth when he says stuff that we on the left like.  Duh!

    Parent
    Brilliant strategy! (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Grace on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:12:59 AM EST
    The more McCain-like he becomes, the less reason to vote for McCain!  The more Huckabee-like he is, the more it will appease the far right wing of the Republican Party who are very unhappy with McCain!  The more Reagan-like he becomes, the more it will thrill the Reagan Democrats!  

    Simply brilliant!  Who'd a thunk it?  

    And the silly liberal/progressives will have no one else to vote for because Obama is the Democratic candidate!  

    Parent

    Has anyone else given any thought to the (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by Grace on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:29:47 AM EST
    economic fallout of a "shift to the right"?  

    I fully expect us to start hearing that Obama believes in the Trickle Down theory in the next couple of weeks.  And he'll find nebulous language in what he has already said.  

    The US dollar is in terrible shape and the only thing that will fix it is balancing our budget and paying our debts.  I don't know how the USA will do that.  We can't keep printing money forever.  Other countries are onto us.  That's why their currencies keep getting more and more valuable while ours keeps getting cheaper.  We need to live within our means and that is going to be very hard to do.  

    Parent

    Bush has an MBA from Harvard (none / 0) (#37)
    by weltec2 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 05:21:14 AM EST
    Harvard should demand that he give it back. He's giving them a bad name.

    Parent
    What demoraphic is that? (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by daryl herbert on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:22:27 AM EST
    You mean gay narcissist Orwell fans with short attention spans who hate to give credit to other people and used to love George W. Bush until Bush made a few lukewarm statements in favor of a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage?

    I think Obama has that demographic locked up.

    Fact is, Mr. Sullivan has been deep in the tank for Sen. Obama for a few months now.  Every time Obama gives a speech, Sullivan is there to say how wonderful it was.

    Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it doesn't tell us how mainstream voters feel.  You might as well take a poll of Chris Matthews' leg.

    Parent

    Chris Matthews' leg (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Grace on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:52:54 AM EST
    says "Permanent Tingle."  

    Seriously, we polled it to see if he felt anythihg stronger like "electricity" or "stroke-type symptoms" but all he felt were tingles.  Lots of tingles.  

    We're writing a report right now for the New England Journal of Medicine.  "Effect of Various Presidential Candidates on Sensory Perceptions in Leg."  

    Chris Matthews was our only subject.  

    Parent

    Obama is undermining the Republican (none / 0) (#29)
    by MyLeftMind on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:03:39 AM EST
    stranglehold on our country's leadership.  If his outreach to religious groups and right wingers works, they'll have formed a favorable impression of him and won't fall for anti-Obama smears that will deluge us next fall.


    Parent
    That may be true (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 07:50:25 AM EST
    But he is simultaneously undermining our chances for serious progressive change during a small window of opportunity when the country seems ready for it.

    Parent
    I respectfully disagree Dr. Molly (none / 0) (#57)
    by MyLeftMind on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:07:33 PM EST
    I don't think the time to push progressive issues is right now.  Obama is still a blank slate to many right wingers and centrists.  He's been smeared by the right, jet he's created a huge surge of new and newly engaged Dem voters.  Republicans and Independents are taking another look at him because they want to see what we see in him.  

    Now is the perfect time to reach out to those on the right, before the convention and before the GOP smears really hit big time.  If he quells the fears of those who think he's a crazy liberal or "too exotic," if he connects with them now, the right wing's dishonesty won't be as effect when they roll it out big time after the convention.  Once they're on board, his progressive focus won't be as scary to them, it'll just be part of the meme of Obama's willingness to bring together people with disparate ideas and philosophies.


    Parent

    Why would that work for Obama (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by RalphB on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 09:19:53 AM EST
    unless he give them what they want?  If he gives them what they want, why should Democrats vote for him?  Can't you see the basic contradiction?

    How long will that fvaorable impression last if he pulls away from the right?  Jeez.


    Parent

    It's not a basic contradiction because (none / 0) (#56)
    by MyLeftMind on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:59:55 AM EST
    he's not giving them what they want.

    For instance, in a recent TL story about Obama's "mental distress" statements to a Christian magazine, commenters here started putting new words in Obama's mouth, claimed he was anti-abortion, declared that he was against women's legal control over their own bodies, etc.  Yet his record on choice says otherwise.  

    To grasp at a phrase like "mental distress" and make all sorts of claims that Obama is giving the right wingers what they want is just naïve.  Obama needs the votes of right wing and centrist Americans, and many of them are anti-abortion.  He's speaking to them in terms of their framework and philosophies.  

    If he gets their votes, that's a good thing.  Reaching out to the part of our electorate who usually vote against our issues doesn't mean he's giving them what they want.  It means he's savvy enough to speak to their hopes and fears.


    Parent

    Oh Please (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:08:32 AM EST
    The Republicans have been undermining their own stranglehold on the country for years with their disorganized, tone-deaf ineptness.

    The Dem leadership and Obama are just helping them stay afloat with their fantastical capitulation on FISA and Obama's stampede to the Right.

    The economy is (was) the Democrat's strongest point to most Americans.  It is being ignored.  This is the first election in almost 30 years where the 'Moral Majority' (remember that weary old chestnut?) is not controlling the public discourse.  It is being embraced.

    Obama just happened to be standing on the sidewalk when the Great Republican Artifice dynamited itself to the ground and trying to take credit for something he has had nothing to do with.

    Parent

    After Obama is the official nominee (none / 0) (#55)
    by MyLeftMind on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:49:50 AM EST
    it will be time to address the economy and consolidate the base.  

    We're in the doldrums of summer.  This is the perfect time for Obama to reach Republicans and Independents who still don't know much about him except the smears the right wing has started using, such as "he's secretly a Muslim terrorist, he's too black, he's not black enough, his pastor is anti-white, he won't wear a flag pin which proves he's not patriotic, he won't pledge allegiance to the flag, he won't sing the national anthem, he's secretly anti-abortion, he got a special deal on his house loan, etc.  It's all nonsense, but American voters are so easily misled.  If they get to know his positions and form a favorable opinion of him now, they won't fall for the anti-Obama smears that will deluge the media next fall.

    Parent

    No (none / 0) (#59)
    by Politalkix on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:34:29 PM EST
    Please do not downplay the importance of this and this and this and this while talking about the "stampede to the right".
    However, I did not see much hand wringing among HRC supporters when she "lurched to the right" during the primaries; OTOH, there was a lot of gloating about what a brilliant campaign HRC was running (which she did) and how she connected to Reagan Democrats while Obama did not. The behaviour of HRC's supporters during the primaries, IMO, convinced the Obama campaign that they had to move a little right of where they stood, to be able to reach out to HRC supporters. Can you now see the effects of continuing to harp on Republican talking points like "bitter" and flag-pins and 3.00 AM ads and false charges of "elitism" on our national discourse?
    HRC and Obama are now working together to undo some of the damage that was inflicted during the primaries. I am quite confident that in the coming months, the case for voting for Obama, will become abundantly clear to many people who are still quite unsure on where he stands on various issues. Everything takes time.

    Parent
    "Bitter" was another GOP talking point (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:22:25 PM EST
    from Obama?  He was the one who said it.  The first item on your list, so the rest are not worth reading.  Do your research on just what your candidate has been saying.  

    And I never heard a GOP candidate say it about me -- the target of Obama's quip -- throughout the primaries.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#25)
    by squeaky on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:13:34 AM EST
       
    Can a freight train really move a ton of freight 436 miles on a gallon of fuel?

    via Juan Cole

    hmmmm

    Saturday Night Open Thread | 62 comments (62 topical)

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