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Obama Speaks in Berlin

I've been in court and missed Obama's speech in Berlin today. 200,000 people turned out to hear him. Here's the transcript. He told the assembled crowd he speaks to them as a citizen of the world.

One message: Tear down the walls.

The walls between the countries with the most and those with the least cannot stand. The walls between races and tribes; natives and immigrants; Christian and Muslim and Jew cannot stand. These now are the walls we must tear down.

The German paper says it was clearly taken from Ronald Reagan:

Obama's speech was a clear echo of former US president Ronald Reagan's call to then Soviet leader Mikhael Gorbachev in Berlin in 1987 to "tear down this wall," before the fall of communism.

A big theme was the war on terror: [More...]

This is the moment when we must defeat terror and dry up the well of extremism that supports it. This threat is real and we cannot shrink from our responsibility to combat it. If we could create NATO to face down the Soviet Union, we can join in a new and global partnership to dismantle the networks that have struck in Madrid and Amman; in London and Bali; in Washington and New York. If we could win a battle of ideas against the communists, we can stand with the vast majority of Muslims who reject the extremism that leads to hate instead of hope.

This is the moment when we must renew our resolve to rout the terrorists who threaten our security in Afghanistan, and the traffickers who sell drugs on your streets. No one welcomes war. I recognize the enormous difficulties in Afghanistan. But my country and yours have a stake in seeing that NATO's first mission beyond Europe's borders is a success. For the people of Afghanistan, and for our shared security, the work must be done. America cannot do this alone. The Afghan people need our troops and your troops; our support and your support to defeat the Taliban and al Qaeda, to develop their economy, and to help them rebuild their nation. We have too much at stake to turn back now.

His next theme: This is the Moment (for hope and change):

This is the moment when every nation in Europe must have the chance to choose its own tomorrow free from the shadows of yesterday.

...This is the moment we must help answer the call for a new dawn in the Middle East.

....This is the moment when we must come together to save this planet

....People of Berlin - people of the world - this is our moment. This is our time.

He did have some specifics:

Will we lift the child in Bangladesh from poverty, shelter the refugee in Chad, and banish the scourge of AIDS in our time?

Will we stand for the human rights of the dissident in Burma, the blogger in Iran, or the voter in Zimbabwe? Will we give meaning to the words "never again" in Darfur?

He ended with:

Let us build on our common history, and seize our common destiny, and once again engage in that noble struggle to bring justice and peace to our world.

Again, I didn't hear it but from a craftsman's point of view, it's a beautifully written speech. I suspect the reviews will be very favorable and he'll get a big bounce over McCain.

I'm not crazy about his plans to build up troops in Afghanistan. Neither is German Chancellor Angela Merkel:

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said she would resist any pressure to send more troops to Afghanistan during talks Thursday with US Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama.

Getting out of one pre-emptive war and into another is not something I like to hear. But, the war on terror, like the war on crime in the 80's and 90's, seems to be viewed by all politicians as the magic carpet ride to getting elected.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Good for (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by Emma on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:07:19 PM EST
    Angela Merkel.  I hope she stands strong.

    I don't think it's Merkel who's opposed (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by scribe on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:43:43 PM EST
    so much as it is the SPD whose participation in her grand coalition government makes her Chancellorship possible.  She's a neo-con, German version, and has no deep antipathy toward sending some German troops to Afghanistan.  She and her defense and foreign ministers want to go ahead with more, but the SPD will tear her up if she does.

    What she said, she's saying for her domestic audience and to keep her coaltion from unraveling.  A by-election here or there, and she's lost her coalition and chancellorship.

    [ Parent ]

    I don't. (3.66 / 3) (#9)
    by sweetthings on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:22:56 PM EST
    Someone's going to have to clean up Afghanistan, and troop that Germany coughs up is one less that we have to produce. From a purely selfish perspective, I hope that Obama is able to convince Merkel that allowing Afghanistan to return to it's old ways is in nobody's best interest.

    But I understand why Merkel is skeptical. I would be too.

    [ Parent ]

    Have I ever mentioned how much... (1.00 / 1) (#13)
    by sweetthings on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:24:21 PM EST
    I'd like an edit function?

    The above should read "and every troop that Germany coughs up is one less that we have to produce."

    [ Parent ]

    wonderful speech (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by MrPope on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:09:58 PM EST
    it was just an inspiring speech...people here at my office here loved it....  Now the people who dont like OBAMA will bash him for it ofcourse..thats their job....but it still was a very moving speech...and soooo many people were there... amazing...never seen anything like that..

    Let me be the first to "bash" as (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by zfran on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:07:15 PM EST
    you say. Granted I only heard part of the speech, however, if I had writers, like he did, and I had a prompter, which he had, and I could read, like he can, I, too, would deliver a "inspiring" speech as you say. His message is nothing new, his expressions never change (very solomn), the setting, I thought, was to immense for his stature. I did, however, like his tie. I thought
    the color was nice and it was tied nicely (actually I thought someone probably tied it for him, as candidates have peeps who do that). Sorry, just my opinion.

    [ Parent ]
    And if (none / 0) (#116)
    by mbuchel on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:10:21 PM EST
    my aunt was a man she'd be my uncle.
    And his message is new compared to what we've experienced the last eight years.
    But I'm glad you noticed the tie.

    [ Parent ]
    Better than Bush. (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by tree on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:16:40 PM EST
    There's a great rallying cry for you.

    [ Parent ]
    Did Obama give his speech in German? (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by bridget on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:54:18 PM EST
     so that everyone could appreciate his "gefluegelte Worte" best?

    just wondering ;-))

    [ Parent ]

    I hope (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by CST on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:12:20 PM EST
    Tear down the walls includes the one currently being built on our border.  Also, most people don't consider Afghanistan to be a pre-emptive war.  Whether or not we should still be there TODAY is a different issue from why we went in the first place.

    By pre-emptive I meant (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:25:57 PM EST
    starting a new war in Afghanistan. I wasn't referring to the one after 9/11.

    [ Parent ]
    Afghanistan is where the we should be (none / 0) (#4)
    by MrPope on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:16:02 PM EST
    Not Iraq and not IRAN.

    [ Parent ]
    Afghanistan, Bad Idea (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:24:28 PM EST
    The problems in Southern Afghanistan and NW Pakistan should not be made our worn out troops problem. It is a political problem at best, and should be dealt with politically.

    Pakistan, a country of 165 million people, is composed of six major ethnic groups, one of them the Pashtuns of the northwest. The Pakistani Taliban are largely drawn from this group. The more settled Pashtun population is centered in the North-West Frontier province, with its capital at Peshawar. Between the NWFP and Afghanistan are badlands administered rather as Native American reservations are in the U.S., called the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, with a population of some 3 million. These areas abut Pashtun provinces of Afghanistan, also a multiethnic society, but one in which Pashtuns are a plurality.

    [snip]

    Nor is it at all clear that sending more U.S. troops to southern Afghanistan can resolve the problem of the resurgence of the Taliban there. American and NATO search-and-destroy missions alienate the local population and fuel, rather than quench, the insurgency. Resentment over U.S. airstrikes on innocent civilians and wedding parties is growing. Brazen attacks on U.S. forward bases and on institutions such as the prison in the southern city of Kandahar are becoming more frequent.

    Before he jumps into Afghanistan with both feet, Obama would be well advised to consult with another group of officers. They are the veterans of the Russian campaign in Afghanistan. Russian officers caution that Afghans cannot be conquered, as the Soviets attempted to do in the 1980s with nearly twice as many troops as NATO and the U.S. now have in the country, and with three times the number of Afghan troops as Karzai can deploy.

    Juan Cole

    I appreciate his resolve (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:25:22 PM EST
    on articulating a different Middle East policy, but this still seems like grandstanding to me.

    LOL - Literally grandstanding (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:29:59 PM EST
    in this case.

    [ Parent ]
    Presumptuous, too (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by lmv on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:37:02 PM EST
    I didn't watch The Speech and won't, just like I didn't watch The Race Speech.  Let's just say my life experience gives me the right to think both events were overblown.

    We need to remember that the Europeans hate Bush.  To them, Obama is the great anti-Bush savior.  But, ANY Democrat would have been enthusiastically welcomed just by virtue of party affiliation.

    So far, Obama hasn't received a bump from his trip and about two-thirds of the public believe the press is trying to get him elected.  It may turn out that the helplessly inept McCain campaign actually got a message out, and couldn't have had better timing.  We'll see in a week.

    [ Parent ]

    McCain is polling much better now in MN (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Nettle on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:56:46 PM EST
    Or at least according to one new poll (WSJ/WashPo).  I'm curious as heck if its anywhere near accurate.  He's been touting Pawlenty as VP, maybe that has something to do with it but MN is still a liberal state with a large Wellstone contingent.  Wonder if more are going toward Nader or McKinney here. hey, hold the rotten tomatoes, I'm just sayin'

    [ Parent ]
    I was wondering where he was going (5.00 / 0) (#25)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:34:37 PM EST
    for the first five minutes or so. Talking about German history seemed like a bit of a tightrope walk. I had to go back to work at the point he started talking about defeating communism, so I will watch it all later and see how it worked out.

    It did seem like a follow-up to Reagan's speech.

    agree, that first part was tricky (none / 0) (#58)
    by DandyTIger on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:21:06 PM EST
    as he was giving the germans a history lesson on, um, german history. I was a place where he could have misstepped, but he handled it fine.

    I think the theme of bring down all the walls that divide countries might come back to haunt him if the repubs noticed.


    [ Parent ]

    I'm sure they noticed (none / 0) (#153)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:02:35 PM EST
    But the wall fans aren't going to vote for him anyway.

    I do admire his speechwriter's ability to walk the tightrope.  I have had the same impression during other speeches.  It is a testament to the attempt to say something in a new, maybe riskier way, or something I haven't heard 1000 times.  I do like that about him.

    [ Parent ]

    Not useful. (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by TheRealFrank on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:45:36 PM EST
    First of all, a candidate giving big speeches abroad makes me uncomfortable. Obama is not the president, and hasn't achieved anything yet, internationally. I think appearing in big venues (especially abroad) is something you can do when you've earned it, not when you're still a candidate.

    Secondly, right now, the concern of the voters is very much with down to earth, economic, domestic issues. So a candidate giving some speech in a country across the ocean, talking about bigger world issues, isn't going to be a vote-getter.

    Obama's campaign has done poorly since he got the nomination. He needs to be talking to the voters at home about why he will be better for them than McCain.


    He said he's a citizen of the world (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by catfish on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:24:49 PM EST
    and certain Republicans insist they're Americans, and not citizens of the world. I can't discern why, but it drives them crazy.

    And with the re-design of his plane, supplanting the American flag with his royal O logo, you could make the case he's running for president of the world.

    I know we refer to the president as leader of the free world, but he's taking it a little far. David Letterman joked about the Canadian primary and the European primary. But that was humor.

    [ Parent ]

    The plane is now being referred to as.. (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:27:22 PM EST
    "O Force One."

    [ Parent ]
    They really are calling it Obama One (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by catfish on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:54:14 PM EST
    Soon it will be ONC Obama National COmmittee and USO United States of Obama. Actually should be UNSO United Nation-States of Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Steve M on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:29:52 PM EST
    These statements by Obama are going to drive the one-world types bananas.

    [ Parent ]
    Citizen of the world... (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:35:07 PM EST
    ... is a pretty loaded term when you are running for President, because it suggests that America's interests are not your top priority. It's fine for people like Al Gore and Jimmy Carter who have moved beyond seeking a job looking out for America's specific well-being, but I'd have avoided it if I were Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    maybe (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Nettle on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:03:58 PM EST
    he's just borrowed Oprah's plane. Heck, she's probably got towels, the whole shabang.

    [ Parent ]
    While I tend to agree with you.... (5.00 / 5) (#63)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:26:49 PM EST
    I wish I knew if I'd feel as uncomfortable if it was Clinton giving that kind of speech...

    And I don't think I would be.  Instead, I'd probably be praising her, etc.

    The thing is, I don't think that Clinton or McCain would be doing this to begin with.  Instead, they would be giving a speech to the German equivalent of the Foreign Affairs Council, because "that is how its done."  

    Obama is breaking the mold... I just don't know if it matters if the mold is broken or not.


    [ Parent ]

    I'd have been uncomfortable with that too. (5.00 / 5) (#73)
    by TheRealFrank on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:33:56 PM EST
    If Hillary Clinton had done it, that is. Or any US presidential candidate, for that matter.

    I do know that I probably have a more negative reaction to Obama speeches, because the grandiose tone that he has used in them has really gotten on my nerves.

    But, in general, I just don't think it's appropriate for a US presidential candidate to do this. It feels presumptuous.

    I really want Obama to just get down to business in a more down to earth tone, and start addressing domestic issues in a more concrete manner.


    [ Parent ]

    My thoughts exactly (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by americanincanada on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:23:06 PM EST
    But, in general, I just don't think it's appropriate for a US presidential candidate to do this. It feels presumptuous.

    [ Parent ]
    paging Naomi Wolf.... (none / 0) (#84)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:38:56 PM EST
    "I really want Obama to just get down to business in a more down to earth tone"

    personally, I think his fashion palette is just fine, thank you! :)

    [ Parent ]

    It's seen differently outside the US (4.00 / 3) (#99)
    by lmv on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:46:54 PM EST
    We're not seeing or hearing what Germans or Canadians or Brits are saying watching the speech on TV.  I expect a lot of them feel it's inappropriate.

    I know Reagan's speech in Germany is widely respected but there was controversy outside of the US when he gave it.  I know.  I wasn't living in the US when he gave that speech.  

    Any time an American politician addresses The World as a Citizen of The World, there are people outside the US that think, "Who does this guy think he is, coming here and telling us what to do or what to think?"

    This really bothers me.  He's a Senator, not President.

    [ Parent ]

    He Is Sounding Presidential (5.00 / 4) (#40)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:59:25 PM EST
    Which is a good thing, imo.  About time an American leader was embraced by fawning crowds, because since Bill it has been mainly protests for BushCo.

    I would have been equally proud if it was Hillary. We need more of this and less bombs.

    I have to disagree with Jeralyn (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:02:20 PM EST
    I believe that Afghanistan was ALWAYS the central component to this struggle and, if done properly, could be turned around.

    That doesn't mean that I believe that we should engage in constant search and destroy missions.  IMO, we should establish a base of protection in the south and rebuild it and then branch forward.

    However this mission MUST be multilateral.  We cannot be the only people there and it can't be just strong armed bit players.  

    I haven't watched the speech yet but I look forward to doing so.

    German troops would help (none / 0) (#45)
    by MKS on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:04:06 PM EST
    It would make it clear it was a NATO or at least a multi-lateral effort.

    [ Parent ]
    NeoCon War Cry (none / 0) (#48)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:08:14 PM EST
    if done properly, could be turned around.

    Done properly.... lol  

    [ Parent ]

    I'm very far (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:10:16 PM EST
    from a neo-con.

    But I am also a pragmatist.

    Afghanistan has been a lawless nation for much of the past 40 years.  It is bordered by both Pakistan and Iran.  

    Of course it is a difficult task.  But I have confidence that Obama won't simply tell the Afghanis to embrace democracy and wash his hands of it.

    [ Parent ]

    Do You Think (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:26:41 PM EST
    That the "smart bombs" will be any smarter with Democrats behind them. Not me. They are a policy disaster.  We are not the worlds sheriff, better to use diplomacy and Aid, than bombs and combat missions, imo.

    People have a right to be lawless all over the world and not have to answer to us. I prefer to bring all troops home and concentrate on domestic problems for a change, and I do not mean homeland security.


    [ Parent ]

    Do you think that (none / 0) (#69)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:29:38 PM EST
    Afghanistan retained the right to be lawless when they allowed terrorists to train on their ground that wound up killing 3000 Americans?

    [ Parent ]
    I don't get you (5.00 / 5) (#79)
    by Steve M on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:35:27 PM EST
    How can you possibly support the concept of collective punishment so blithely against an utterly failed state?  Did the people who are getting blown up these days somehow elect the Taliban and empower them to give al-Qaeda a safe haven?

    I'm really hoping that liberals can have a discussion about the mission in Afghanistan that goes beyond "well, that's the good war, so let's stay the course for as long as it takes."  So far, the blogosphere has pretty much disappointed me.

    [ Parent ]

    Different discussion (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:44:51 PM EST
    As I said initially I do not support search and destroy missions and "blithely" killing anyone.

    I believe we should engage in a defensive posture in Afghanistan in which we provide support for Tajik, Turkman, and Pashtun tribal groups seeking refuge from violence and the Taliban.

    Afghanistan is not Iraq and from what I know of the region, we would be welcomed by the locals if we acted appropriately.

    I don't care much for the term stay the course because it suggests that we should be simply trying to out slug our opponent. That will never work.

    [ Parent ]

    Allowed? (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:43:27 PM EST
    Considering that there has been no real criminal investigation of the event of which you speak, I think that we can dispense with the notion that Afghanistan allowed 9/11 to happen. Revenge on innocent civilians has already gone on too long, imo.

    Had this been a criminal investigation, as it should have been, we would have no Gitmo, Patriot act, Secret renditions, State sponsored torture, and all of the assorted BushCo trappings.

    [ Parent ]

    Water under the bridge (none / 0) (#98)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:46:26 PM EST
    I have no desire for revenge.  I have a desire to help a nation that could use our help.  

    This is why I maintain that multilateral support must remain for our presences in Afghanistan to bear any fruits.

    Drug interdiction and random bombings serve no purpose.

    [ Parent ]

    Huh? (none / 0) (#131)
    by ks on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:28:08 PM EST
    "Retained the right to be lawless...?"  What does that even mean? It sounds like a pretty meaningless assertion. Are we going to make them be "lawful", whatever that means?

    "...when they allowed terrorists to train on their ground that wound up killing 3000 Americans?"

    The Taliban is out of power, no?  

    [ Parent ]

    Cosign (none / 0) (#55)
    by MrPope on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:17:53 PM EST
    we are not attacking Afghanistan...we are attacking terror sects within.   As far as i know are they not in one area in Afghanistan mostly?

    [ Parent ]
    what part of Afghanistan's government (none / 0) (#59)
    by Nettle on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:21:55 PM EST
    doesn't the US have control over? Karzai? C'mon.

    [ Parent ]
    its still about oil only now its Afganistan.. (none / 0) (#212)
    by 18anapple2 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 10:50:23 PM EST
     
    Any i.d.i.o.t knows it's still about o.i.l..the all important pipelines thru Afganistan .

    'In 1998, Dick Cheney, now US vice-president but then chief executive of a major oil services company, remarked: "I cannot think of a time when we have had a region emerge as suddenly to become as strategically significant as the Caspian." But the oil and gas there is worthless until it is moved. The only route which makes both political and economic sense is through Afghanistan. [Guardian]'

    The repugs have lost all credibility so now we have a democrat to sell us this war..but it's still about the o.i.l!
    Substitute Pakistan/Afganistan for Iraq and Obama for Bush and its a rerun of the same old arrogant American foreign policy of preemption that started the war in Iraq. Actionable intelligence!! haven't we heard that one before!

    And frankly it's a bit much to be preaching peace ,tearing down walls etc with one side of your mouth and calling for war with the other!

    [ Parent ]

    Really? (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:05:54 PM EST
    Reagan called for the world to fight against terrorism?  Really?

    yes, then the boogyman was called the soviets (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by DandyTIger on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:08:34 PM EST
    but the concept is the same. You always need a bad guy to rally around I guess.

    [ Parent ]
    That's funny (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:19:06 PM EST
    this particular boogeyman came within 200 feet of killing me.  So perhaps I find it a little more real than you.

    Could you point to the part of the speech in which Obama used fear and caricatured enemies?

    [ Parent ]

    answered you, no interested in your new strawman (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by DandyTIger on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:29:08 PM EST
    however. You asked about Reagan and terrorism, I answered about a different boogyman. I'm not saying there was any fear mongering, etc. And I'm not saying this new boogyman hasn't done bad things. I lost two friends on 9/11. The previous boogyman did bad things too, just not as obvious on our soil.

    But the bottom line is, it's a boogyman. Americans driving cars are much more likely to kill any of us than a middle eastern terrorist. So discussing it at all is of course political.

    [ Parent ]

    Really? (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:35:01 PM EST
    Bogeyman - n. - an imaginary evil character of supernatural powers, esp. a mythical hobgoblin supposed to carry off naughty children.

    So I guess we shouldn't worry about terrorism?  It's just a myth?

    For 8 years I had to hear the rabid right hyperventilate about the dangers of terrorism and now I have to hear from the left about I should worry more about getting hit by a car than about terrorism?

    OF COURSE the discussion is political.  What kind of statement is that?

    [ Parent ]

    glad you agree that it's political (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by DandyTIger on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:43:55 PM EST
    and oopsie on misspelling bogeyman.  Yes, you really should worry more about traffic accidents than terrorists. Hope that's not a surprise or any sort of rude awakening. And yes, that means all these liberties we've been giving up and apparently will continue to give up no matter who are next president is will be for absolutely nothing. Sad isn't it.

    [ Parent ]
    But If He Is Elected (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by daring grace on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:16:40 PM EST
    It's completely reasonable for Obama to 'worry' about terrorists. As you point out, terrorism is the new world order of threat just as, at one time, superpowers stood astride the world stage. A U.S. president must strategize with an eye to the possibilities and how to head them off or deal with them.

    Maybe it is more reasonable for unelected citizens to worry about traffic mayhem--especially if we live or work in D.C. and may find ourselves in the path of Novak's Corvette.

    [ Parent ]

    Yes, the Soviets were our "terrorists" (3.50 / 2) (#76)
    by stefystef on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:34:14 PM EST
    back in the day.

    I think the problem is a lot of the Obama followers are too young to remember Reagan and the Cold War days and how Reagan, through fancy speeches, was able to charm Europe (especially Thatcher in England) to go along with his global agenda.  I remember "Teflon Ron" very well.  

    Communism didn't fall because of Reagan, it fell because it's a corrupt system.  But that didn't stop Ronnie for taking credit.

    Obama ain't going nothing that wasn't done before.  A lot of flash, little substance.  Again, an event, a happening, not a real movement.  This is not the first time Obama has invoked Reagan (of course, to draw in more moderate Republicans and Independents) and it won't be the last...

    [ Parent ]

    Agreed, and it doesn't help that ... (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:31:15 PM EST
    the media accepts the idea that we "won" the Cold War.

    Of course, young people could also be reminded that in our two proxy wars "against international communism" (Korea and Vietnam) we lost over 100,000 soldiers.  Approximately the same as US loses in WWI.

    Creating bogeymen can have very damaging results.

    [ Parent ]

    It was a kumbaya speech (sorry for Right Wing (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by catfish on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:21:59 PM EST
    talking point.)

    But there were so many things he was sort of trying to say, such as Mr. Gorbachev, tear down all these metaphorical walls that divide humanity. Like Iran, Bangladesh, Chad, Darfur, Zimbabwe (why Berlin to address all of this?)

    He also had some global warming snippets in there. And some shameless Kennedy imitating about "bearing any burdens."

    It was: Europe, America, let's start being friends. (We already were friends.) It was: let's feed the hungry and care for the children of the world. Let's all get along.

    (why Berlin to address all of this?) (5.00 / 4) (#74)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:33:57 PM EST
    Because Obama's official "status" is that of a US Senator on a 'fact-finding' mission.   Senators do give speeches during such 'junkets', but they are usually 'serious' foreign policy speeches made to "elite" audiences, rather than campaign pep rallies.

    Obama is trying to have it both ways -- I wonder if it will work?

    [ Parent ]

    Obama is co-opting Reagan again??? (5.00 / 4) (#65)
    by stefystef on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:27:32 PM EST
    The "wall" speech from the in 1980s.  ~yawn~

    I remember Americans being so proud of Reagan too.  Like Reagan, Obama's giving alot of flash, little substance or genuine emotion.  

    200,000 people! (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Steve M on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:28:49 PM EST
    Did the Scorpions play or something?!?

    I actually haven't heard a negative reaction to Obama's trip yet, except here on TL.  For the most part people seem to think it looks presidential.

    The greatest.... (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:35:55 PM EST
    Well, just as long as the pundits don't start getting that tingling feeling, and start referring to it as "the greatest foreign policy speech EVAH!!!!"

    I'd had to see the Bangladeshi's thrown under the bus in a couple of weeks.... ;)

    [ Parent ]

    Until he's elected, these role playing displays (5.00 / 5) (#97)
    by Ellie on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:45:29 PM EST
    ... are embarrassing.

    However, not my horse, not my barn; he still hasn't done anything to earn, affirmatively, my vote. I don't think that crowning himself King George IV will help him in the fall.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm really sick of this "looking (5.00 / 4) (#101)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:48:49 PM EST
    presidential" meme.  I daresay if you dressed us all appropriately, photographed us in front of the right backdrops, we could all look presidential. Rock concert-generated crowds help there, too.

    This isn't the presidential version of America's Next Top Model" for crying out loud - but it's starting to feel a lot like the Wizard of Oz, with some of us less concerned with how Obama looks than who is behind the curtain.

    My big fear is that Obama is all about being presidential more than he is about being the president - you know, the actual work part of the job?

    It's all just wearing on my last nerve.

    [ Parent ]

    Me too (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:54:57 PM EST
    It used to be a small part of what people cared about, or at least admitted they cared about. Now looking the part is praised to the skies. It reminds me of that movie "Dave" where they polished Kevin Kline up to be the president.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes. (none / 0) (#175)
    by tree on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:46:02 PM EST
    Bush was a disaster as a President because of what he did, not because of how he looked, or whether he could give a good speech. But sadly I hear people praising looks and speechifying as a major qualification for a good Presidency. Those qualities may be nice and might give you a thrill up your leg, but they aren't the proper indicators of a good President. See Reagan.

    [ Parent ]
    Really (2.00 / 0) (#102)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:52:10 PM EST
    If anyone could look presidential, how come Bush and McSame look like such fools. No, you can not dress up a pig.

    [ Parent ]
    Haha. (5.00 / 4) (#103)
    by TheRealFrank on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:53:45 PM EST
    Bush got elected. People thought he was such a great guy, and the press fawned over him being such a great communicator.

    Yes, you can dress up a pig.


    [ Parent ]

    Bush Looked Like A Cowboy (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:59:57 PM EST
    And many Americans like to think of themselves as in a rootin shootin western or car and cigarette adverts, in their SUV's, just like on teevee.

    Hardly presidential, looking. But he did appear to win.

    The rest of the world saw through the act. Half of America was fooled twice, third time not a chance, imo.  

    [ Parent ]

    Bush Got "Elected' (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by daring grace on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:25:49 PM EST
    in 2000...Funny, I had the feeling the 'election' was settled by the SCOTUS.

    Once in,  the advantages of incumbency carried him into office in 2004. Not much of an electoral mandate there either, actually.

    [ Parent ]

    Bush got elected (none / 0) (#106)
    by CST on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:56:55 PM EST
    But he certainly never looked presidential.

    [ Parent ]
    That's what *you* thought. (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by TheRealFrank on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:58:28 PM EST
    And what I thought as well. However, a lot of voters, sadly, thought otherwise.


    [ Parent ]
    I disagree. (none / 0) (#110)
    by LoisInCo on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:58:34 PM EST
    In the aftermath of 9/11 he presented a very effective Presidential air.

    [ Parent ]
    Right up to the point where (5.00 / 0) (#112)
    by CST on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:01:02 PM EST
    He opened his mouth and something barely resembling English came out.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:05:46 PM EST
    Particularly when he was reading My Pet Goat, or playing guitar during Katrina.

    [ Parent ]
    I should have said the immediate aftermath of 9/11 (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by LoisInCo on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:13:02 PM EST
    Of course Bush is moron and hasn't done much of anything that I approve of. But honestly, there was a glimmer of something there right after 9/11. And it fed him for years. Unfortunately.

    [ Parent ]
    'He passed the test of looking presidential' (none / 0) (#225)
    by andrys on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 03:17:26 AM EST
    It drives me batty too because it's about appearances and it's as if he were auditioning for a ROLE in a movie.

      And much as I thought the lighting was exceptional and he looked happy and rested and the audience we could see in front was genuinely excited by the guy, the speech was more of the same.  I could hardly stand it when he said, "This is the moment when ... This is our time... for the 14th time and then there were more.

      However, this was great for photographers and he does have a certain 'style' (but that used to be admired for first lady more than for the president).  Nevertheless, what he does is raise hope, for sure.  Let's hope he can actually meet some of it.  If nothing else, he has a very effective team, even if the whole thing seemed inordinately grandiose at times.  The big screen outdoors was quite something to see there.  Right now, it's all about marketing (with a mix of religious appeal, "believe in" -- hope...change... moment....time...Reagan walls...

    [ Parent ]

    Yes Pretty Impressive (3.00 / 2) (#83)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:38:26 PM EST
    Taking back our country. This is how it looks.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh squeaky (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Steve M on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:41:58 PM EST
    I'm not ready to click those orange links just yet!

    [ Parent ]
    well jeebus, what do you expect (5.00 / 0) (#121)
    by owenaprhys on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:16:20 PM EST
    with the free concerts before his speech.
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,567821,00.html
    6:33 p.m.: The tens of thousands of Obama fans are being entertained as they await the senator. The reggae musician Patrice kicked things off, followed by the rock band Reamonn.

     

    THIS is Obama WITHOUT the rock Concerts:
    http://www.townhall.com/blog/g/082ab837-a4f6-4a7d-bec3-2fff2d27a681

    [ Parent ]

    I believe (3.00 / 2) (#86)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:39:59 PM EST
    the bands that played before him were simply local cover bands.  

    [ Parent ]
    Just so we're clear (none / 0) (#92)
    by Steve M on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:42:59 PM EST
    I was snarking on the people who always like to claim Obama's crowds are just there to hear the opening act.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (none / 0) (#100)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:47:50 PM EST
    Fair enough.

    [ Parent ]
    no (none / 0) (#127)
    by owenaprhys on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:23:01 PM EST
    He should have (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by LoisInCo on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:43:36 PM EST
    booked The Hoff.

    [ Parent ]
    presidential compared to what (none / 0) (#75)
    by Nettle on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:33:58 PM EST
    Don't miss out, though, the new 'presidential' theme is that everyone simply wants in his pants.  The man-crush rolls on.
    Long as we're talkin' serious politics and all... .

    [ Parent ]
    Hmm (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Steve M on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:39:44 PM EST
    Compared to Bush, I guess?  I dunno.  Presidential means presidential to me.

    I try to stay focused on the issues myself, but for a lot of people, it really does make a difference whether they feel proud of the person who represents our country abroad.  In much the same way as most of us are embarrassed to have Bush as the spokesman for America right now, some people look forward to having a well-respected person like Obama representing us to the world.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I don't see anything particularly wrong with that.

    [ Parent ]

    There has been negative coverage (none / 0) (#94)
    by stefystef on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:43:54 PM EST
    but it has been purged from the MSM and many internet websites.
    The Obama camp spends alot of time and money and effort to eliminate a lot of the negative coverage of Obama.

    There isn't half the negative coverage on TL as I've seen on other sites and the moderators do an excellent job at filtering the more slanderous posts.

    [ Parent ]

    That reminds me of the Ivins quip... (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by Dawn Davenport on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:38:09 PM EST
    ...about Pat Buchanan's speech at the 1992 Republican convention: "It sounded better in the original German."

    (For the record, I though Obama's speech was good, not great, and I'm not comparing him to Hitler.)

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:39:59 PM EST
    and of course Raygun wrote it himself on the back of an envelope while enroute, just like Lincoln. lol

    Thanks for the chuckle.

    Actually, Reagan (none / 0) (#136)
    by oldpro on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:31:57 PM EST
    was a good writer, good speaker, both with a script and extemporaneously.  Before he became president, he wrote a lot of his stuff...reams of it...years worth in archives and some published.

    "The Great Communicator" wasn't entirely a phoney title...he was damn good...better than Obama.

    [ Parent ]

    The part of his speech about (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by my opinion on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:41:04 PM EST
    joining together to fight terrorism is amazingly similar to a speech Bush gave at the German Parliament in May 2002.

    Yes (5.00 / 3) (#145)
    by Hope on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:51:34 PM EST
    He hasn't seemed to notice we've been doing exactly that since 9/11.

    Very little of what he said was new. Most of it is already happening.

    Apart from Germans fighting, which frankly I'm not that keen on. I much prefer Germany pacifist.

    [ Parent ]

    So do I and so do the vast majority of the Germans (none / 0) (#167)
    by bridget on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:23:49 PM EST
    who had enough of war and promised after 1945 that never again would a war start by Germans. But more than once now they have been put between a rock and a hard place.  

    You probably remember that after the Lebanon war the  Israeli prime minister asked Merkel on a visit to Germany (I think it was) to send troops, i.e. ships in the region. So did W.

    I understand that Merkel had no choice and had to send ships to Lebanon. Germans are not allowed to remain "pacifists" as much as they want to. I was told since they are NATO members they had to do it or otherwise leave NATO.  

    [ Parent ]

    I think Obama is aiming too low. (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by MarkL on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:12:05 PM EST
    Shouldn't a man of his stature be trying to figure out how to avoid the "Big crunch" scenario in 100 billion years?


    For someone who "inspired" (5.00 / 3) (#129)
    by sancho on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:25:53 PM EST
    so many into believing he is the anti-war candidate, Obama's rhetoric about Afghanistan should give some pause. Given who some of his advisers are (the same ones who during the Carter administration made Bin Laden a CIA asset to help fight Russia), people with a historical itch to go at it with Russia, his recent talk has me really nervous. Kerry in '04 talked about going after Bin Laden (as a way of reducing the Iraq war), Obama, I fear, wants to go after Obama to extend and expand the ongoing war. Hope I'm wrong.

    One scary thing about the most recent Bush is that he extended the range of what Presdients think they can get away with. Obama, I think, relishes inheriting this sense of increased power.  

    Obama is a hawk---much more so than (4.00 / 4) (#134)
    by MarkL on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:30:42 PM EST
    Hillary, and in practice he may be more of a hawk than McCain, because he is foolish, arrogant and inexperienced.

    [ Parent ]
    preaching to the choir, markl (none / 0) (#220)
    by sancho on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:04:44 AM EST
    and thanks for the reply. i fear Dr. B in President O's administration.

    [ Parent ]
    It's not that it's inappropriate (5.00 / 5) (#138)
    by americanincanada on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:35:48 PM EST
    for Obama to speak in a foreign country. Jesus. And I certainly don't want Bush speaking for me any longer. But Obama is NOT THE PRESIDENT yet, and he may not ever be.

    I don't think it's appropriate for any candidate to be on the stump on my dime and I don't think any candidate should be making campaign rally type speaches on foreign soil.

    and some simply (5.00 / 3) (#141)
    by Chisoxy on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:44:51 PM EST
    dont agree with an unofficial "President" presenting himself to the world as speaking for the US, regardless of individual. McCain did his little photo-op, but kept his ego in check.

    Amen (5.00 / 4) (#160)
    by americanincanada on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:15:24 PM EST
    I don't want a candidate going to a foreign country and speaking for me anymore than I would want my neighbor doing it.

    I have to say the BBC's coverage of this is not fawning at all. They said it was 'well-received' but that there were scattered boos, some protests and they mentioned the rock concert and the fact that it was unprecedented to have a 'candidate' make this appearance.

    Interesting that they keep pointing out the fact that he is not president and may never be. Hmmm...

    Coverage here in Canada has been varied today as well...more cautiously positive than negative but certainly not fawning either. Everyone seems to realize no other candidate has ever done this and that it may not have been a good thing to do to apeal to financially hurting US voters. Too bad our MSM can't see that.

    [ Parent ]

    Does 'President' Really Make a Difference? (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by daring grace on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:52:51 PM EST
    You don't want a presidential candidate speaking for you (speaking for the U.S.) overseas.

    So once Obama's elected president, it's okay? You will feel he speaks for you?

    See, that makes us different, because even though he's president, I NEVER want anyone in the world to believe what Bush says represents what I believe (or what I hope America stands for.)

    From what you say, I suspect that president or candidate, Obama will never really be speaking for you, will he?

    If true, I have no problem with that. It's just that there seems to be little distinction between him as president or presumptive nominee as to where he stands with you.

    [ Parent ]

    So you think it's appropriate (5.00 / 3) (#182)
    by americanincanada on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:57:57 PM EST
    for a candidate to do a staged campaign rally in a foreign country while he asserts that it is inappropriate for him to visit injured troops?!

    No, I don't want Bush speaking for me but he does has the right to represent our country even if I didn't vot for him. He is the pesident. I can be embarrassed, and almost always am, but it is appropriate for him to make those speeches.

    Obama is not even the official nominee yet and he is speaking as though it is a foregone conslusion, no need for votes.

    As the BBC just reminded everyone, no president has ever been elected back home because he was popular in Europe.

    [ Parent ]

    I Have No Problem (none / 0) (#202)
    by daring grace on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 06:49:40 PM EST
    with Obama's trip and speaking overseas. Wasn't McCain over there in June or early July meeting leaders and even fundraising.

    In addition, politicians who aren't even running for POTUS go to other countries all the time, talking policy and making the rounds.

    I don't see the relevance of the two things--speech making and yet not visiting wounded troops.

    But your 'right' or whatever to be embarrassed by Obama, express disapproval, outrage or disagreement has never been questioned by me. It was the framing of those reactions I was exploring, and I think you've made it pretty clear that Obama's actions and choices are not winning any favor with you. I'm still not sure that it has anything to do with his status as presumptive nominee.

    [ Parent ]

    Its not about speaking for me (none / 0) (#200)
    by Chisoxy on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 06:36:27 PM EST
    I guess unless I vote for someone I dont feel they are doing that. But people earn that responsibility and opportunity, neither McCain or Obama have done so. Bush, while I dont like him and never voted for him, was unfortunately selected for that role by the country. Obama has officially only earned the right to speak for the people of Illinois, and should limit himself accordingly.

    [ Parent ]
    Don't Worry (2.00 / 1) (#170)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:32:52 PM EST
    I don't want a candidate going to a foreign country and speaking for me anymore than I would want my neighbor doing it.

    He is not speaking for you, your chimperor in chief has you covered.

    [ Parent ]

    More Reagan? How about JFK? (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by blogtopus on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:46:33 PM EST
    I guess it's better to resemble a speech that says 'Tear down these Walls' rather than one that says 'I am a Jelly Donut'.

    I could throw in my usual blah blah about Obama not living up to my expectations, but what's the point? Neither he nor Obama supporters listen to us anyway except to either A) Take us for granted or B) Tell us we don't matter and/or are stupid refuseniks.

    The fact that he reminded people more of Reagan than of JFK should cause some pause with some people today, make them ask why he sounds like that? Is it how he said it, or WHAT he said? And if it is WHAT he said, what are some other similarities between Obama and Reagan we should take note of?

    Useless Bleating aside, I'm glad that he's at least traveling outside the country.

    Alas, after appearing before a large (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:58:27 PM EST
    and enthusiastic crowd of Germans, Senator Obama has scrapped plans to visit wounded American servicemen and women - now that he's in campaign mode and not Senator mode, he says it would not be appropriate...

    I kid you not - heard it on the news in the car.

    McCain says it is never inappropriate to visit American wounded.

    I have a feeling Obama's decision is not going to sit well with a lot of people.

    This (5.00 / 2) (#158)
    by Hope on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:09:29 PM EST
    is a very silly faux pas.

    Plus he could have just done it in private with no cameras.

    [ Parent ]

    Wonderful /snark (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by americanincanada on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:11:51 PM EST
    he can speak to a crowd of strangers on foeeign soil in a blatantly staged campaign rally but he can't visit us service men and women. Nice.

    I agree...I don't think this is going to go over well and the McCain will probably jump all over it and rightly so.

    [ Parent ]

    That was a military call, apparently. (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by Pegasus on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:59:54 PM EST
    From Yahoo/AP