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Satire?

The latest New Yorker cover has sparked a lot of justifiable outrage. Obama spokesman Bill Burton said:

“The New Yorker may think, as one of their staff explained to us, that their cover is a satirical lampoon of the caricature Senator Obama's right-wing critics have tried to create. But most readers will see it as tasteless and offensive. And we agree."

The cover artist Bill Blitt responds:

think the idea that the Obamas are branded as unpatriotic [let alone as terrorists] in certain sectors is preposterous. It seemed to me that depicting the concept would show it as the fear-mongering ridiculousness that it is.

My view is that as satire it utterly fails. Satire of issues like this almost always do. Satire involving racist, sexist and religious stereotypes just do not work and I wonder when folks might wake up to that fact. Or will they continue to yell "PC!"

Speaking for me only

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  • Display: Sort:
    It is tasteless. (5.00 / 7) (#2)
    by pie on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 08:57:40 PM EST
    But it's mild compared to what they may face down the long road.

    Just ask the Clintons.

    Welcome to (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by pie on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:08:36 PM EST
    Election 2008.

    It's begun.

    Parent

    Tee Hee (4.00 / 4) (#15)
    by talesoftwokitties on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:09:51 PM EST
    Sorry can't get outraged about this.

    Parent
    It as tasteless as what the New Yorker (5.00 / 18) (#23)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:15:11 PM EST
    repeatedly printed for weeks about Senator Clinton -- not only ridiculous cartoons but also sexist crap in coverage.  Once again, we see that only racism matters?

    I'd note that the New Yorker treated New York's junior Senator with more fairness and balance in past, until the woman wanted to be president.

    Parent

    I knew I liked you. (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by pie on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:19:36 PM EST
    Now I'm convinced.  :)

    Parent
    Does that justify it? (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by samtaylor2 on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:22:03 PM EST
    I don't "justify" freedom of speech. (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:29:36 PM EST
    By your own logic... (5.00 / 0) (#103)
    by Thanin on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:00:36 PM EST
    what you claim they did to Hillary was also free speech and therefore doesnt need to be justified, correct?

    Parent
    Correct. I wasn't questioning (none / 0) (#112)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:09:11 PM EST
    the justification for the coverage of Clinton.  I just disapproved of it.  So if Sam wants to rephrase his question in a way that I can answer it, fine.

    Parent
    of course not! (4.00 / 4) (#58)
    by Josey on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:32:33 PM EST
    and Obama's race-baiting and sexism are also inappropriate.


    Parent
    Race baiting? (5.00 / 0) (#122)
    by samtaylor2 on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:19:48 PM EST
    You got me.  I find that term so deeply offensive

    Parent
    The term (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:54:44 PM EST

    The term or the activity?

    Parent
    Race Baiting? (none / 0) (#78)
    by squeaky on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:42:01 PM EST
    That's a tricky one, because, in your case (context and all), bringing it up amounts to race baiting.

    Because of ypur position, (that Obama is a racist and a misogynist) you have less leeway with your claims.

    Parent

    squeaky - (4.20 / 5) (#194)
    by Josey on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 06:25:26 AM EST
    your post seems Obama-esque: the Obama campaign didn't engage in race-baiting during the primary. It was all in our imagination. Move along...

    Allow me to add "crazymaking" to the list of reasons I don't support Obama.


    Parent

    and the article (none / 0) (#174)
    by boredmpa on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 12:25:56 AM EST
    well...whatever the grit/story about chicago, it really takes a naive/generous view of his votes.

    Parent
    Yes, ask the Clintons... (5.00 / 2) (#176)
    by Fredster on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 12:33:43 AM EST
    Were you that upset when TNR did this cover?

    http://blogs.chron.com/beltwayconfidential/tnr.jpg

    Parent

    I did not much like it (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by andgarden on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 08:57:59 PM EST
    But I admit that this is a bit of a grey area for me

    I'm with you (5.00 / 0) (#75)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:41:49 PM EST
    It's not harmful or bad, just tasteless.

    Parent
    One question (5.00 / 6) (#4)
    by ghost2 on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 08:59:00 PM EST
    Honestly, what was your opinion about the infamous cartoons published in Denmark, which insulted a whole religion, but everyone called those who were offended a bunch of backwards people who didn't know about, "freedom of expression"?  

    I'd say in the same light, New Yorker is entitled to its opinion and its jokes.

    See Riverdaughter, and the Cover of The New Republic on Hillary that was published.

    Heh. (5.00 / 10) (#6)
    by pie on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:02:28 PM EST
    Hillary has seen it all.

    She's still standing.

    Parent

    No One I've Heard Questioned (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by daring grace on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:13:35 PM EST
    their right to publish it. Just as people who find it offensive have the right to say so.

    Parent
    NOBODY is suggesting (5.00 / 4) (#60)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:34:14 PM EST
    they're not entitled to print it!

    Fer gawd's sake!  Nobody is calling for censorship.

    They're entitled to print it, we're entitled to complain about it and label it stupid and tasteless.

    Which I do.

    Parent

    Honestly (3.80 / 5) (#5)
    by andgarden on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:00:01 PM EST
    I don't think that New Republic cover compares. This one is much more offensive, if one is to be offended.

    Parent
    Who remembers this one? (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:04:18 PM EST
    link

    Obama and Michelle are treated very respectfully.


    Parent

    I find the Spy cover offensive (5.00 / 6) (#62)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:35:01 PM EST
    because I really hated Hillary's headband era.

    More to the point, each cover is making a point -- but quite differently, and not equitably.  The New Yorker cover is mocking the stupid rumors that Obama is Muslim, that the fist bump was a "terrorist bump," etc.  But the Spy cover is mocking the Senator herself.  So it is not political satire.

    There is more to say about the differences, but I'm writing lectures for a different class just now. :-)

    Parent

    "Headband era" (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:43:54 PM EST
    Yeah, me too.

    Hey Cream, would you consider posting some of your reading list for classes and/or a syllabus?  I'd be very interested.  (of course, would also entirely understand if you did not feel comfortable doing that).

    Parent

    Ye goddesses, you must love pain (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:13:03 PM EST
    I mean, some of these syllabi would break the copier budget in my department -- but fortunately, I post them on my online course tool now, with cool click-through links to ereserve and all.  Of course, none of that is available to those who don't pay tuition . . . but let me see if I can come up with a way to do this.  I was going to get to putting up my own site this summer -- but then I got all wound up in researching for lectures and PowerPoints for another new course for this fall, and now I feel out of time even with six weeks left of summer.:-)

    Parent
    Hmmm, in my day syllabi were usually (none / 0) (#142)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:42:39 PM EST
    a page or two -- or did you mean the actual reading (or maybe it's been so long since I've been in a classroom I'm misremembering what the terms mean altogether!)

    If you put up your own site, I would love to see it.

    Parent

    Nope, the syllabi (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:44:33 PM EST
    themselves tend to run to many pages.  In part, I tend to create courses for which there are not textbooks yet, so I pull readings from here, there, etc. . . . while putting the writing of textbooks on those topics on my to-do list.  

    And then along comes a new technology to learn like putting up a web page, or classroom clickers -- that's next after a web page, and it was PowerPoint tricks before that -- and the to-do list just gets longer.:-)  And I just got notified that we now have a different online course tool for this fall, new tricks to learn for an online discussion forum and more.  Remember when you only had to listen to the prof and participate in discussion twice a week?!  

    Parent

    Doncha just love it (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 03:49:56 AM EST
    when morons complain about how educators have it so easy with short workdays and summers off?  (My dad was a prof., too)

    Parent
    Want to go back in time and (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by pie on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:05:28 PM EST
    look at covers and articles about the Clintons?

    That was then; this is now.

    What will tomorrow bring?

    Tasteless covers about John McCain?

    Parent

    Except most of them weren't satire (5.00 / 4) (#48)
    by dianem on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:25:44 PM EST
    The covers about the Clinton's tended to be quite serious.

    Parent
    Riverdaughter made a specific comparison, (none / 0) (#12)
    by andgarden on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:08:02 PM EST
    which you referenced. I say there is not comparison.

    What exactly is your point about saying that there will be more of this? FUD, it seems to me.

    Parent

    There is no comparison. (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by pie on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:15:55 PM EST
    I'm just telling you gently that it probably will get worse for Obama.

    He hasn't seen anything yet.

    Parent

    What does FUD mean? n/t (none / 0) (#35)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:19:58 PM EST
    Fear, uncertainty, and doubt. (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:21:49 PM EST
    Not completely sure how it applies here.

    Parent
    Nostalgic for Mad Magazine covers. (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:12:02 PM EST
    Me Too (none / 0) (#54)
    by squeaky on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:30:26 PM EST
    Great link. Thanks. (none / 0) (#68)
    by oculus on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:37:38 PM EST
    And The Next One (none / 0) (#109)
    by squeaky on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:06:23 PM EST
    Arnold Newman on Mt Rushmore.

    Considering that the source of Alfred E. Neuman was a face from a nasty anti semitic nazi propaganda poster.

    Parent

    Oh look! (none / 0) (#117)
    by tree on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:13:10 PM EST
    There's a February 1994 cover of Bill Clinton and Al Gore as Beavis and Butthead. And another cover in October 1994 of "The Clintstones". Then there's the whole September 1997 "Clinton Bashing Issue". Do we need to get retroactively  appalled at Mad Magazine?

    Parent
    Wow, thanks for the MAD link Squeaky! (none / 0) (#114)
    by Ellie on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:11:15 PM EST
    I had to dump a bunch of mildewed inherited ones because, though hilariously funny, as raw Hazmat they were simply too dangerous to personal health (and smelly) to read.

    Off to look for 2001, A Space Idiocy.

    Parent

    WOW!! (none / 0) (#158)
    by hairspray on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:11:08 PM EST
    I did see a pic of obama's face super- (none / 0) (#169)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:58:38 PM EST
    imposed on Jim Carrey's body in the Liar, Liar movie poster...

    Parent
    I was offended by the New Republic cover. (5.00 / 11) (#18)
    by samanthasmom on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:13:06 PM EST
    Not at all by the New Yorker. The cover of the New Republic was a personal insult to Senator Clinton. The cover of the New Yorker is making fun of the people who believe these ridiculous things about the Obamas, not the Obamas themselves. The New Yorker cover is directed at a sophisticated audience. The Obama supporters, highly educated as they are, should be able to recognize it as satire. The old biddies who continue to support Clinton grew up with Mad Magazine, and we'll catch on to the intended humor, too. If Senator Obama can't appreciate the humor, he should just brush the cover off. Whining is unattractive.

    Parent
    Exactly (5.00 / 6) (#46)
    by sarahfdavis on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:23:47 PM EST
    The New Yorker cover makes fun of the people that attack the Obama's with those slurs (militant, muslim, america hating).
    The New Republic cover was misogynistic towards Hillary.


    Parent
    I don't (4.00 / 4) (#39)
    by MichaelGale on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:21:16 PM EST
    the new Republic cover of Clinton was hateful.  The New Yorker is offensive to those who are offended by it. I'm not.

    Parent
    Wow (5.00 / 8) (#8)
    by Jane in CA on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:03:16 PM EST
    And the New Yorker claims it is just trying to defuse stereotypes with this cover?

    You know what they say about "friends like these ..."

    I reacted the way you did (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by andrys on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:12:45 PM EST
    I JUST posted about it in the Chicago/NewYorker/Obama thread so won't repeat it here, but if another opinion is wanted, this was my own opinion, as a Hillary supporter.

    Parent
    I Read Your Post (5.00 / 6) (#89)
    by Jane in CA on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:46:09 PM EST
    and thought it very well reasoned. I agree with your point that although it is clearly meant, and will be interpreted, as satire by the readers of the New Yorker, the potential for it to go viral in a negative way is significant.

    And that's what concerns me.  I don't like the cover.  I do find it offensive but, more importantly, I believe it trivializes the more subtle but very real concerns that many of us have about Senator Obama.  This cover perpetrates the notion that non-supporters are afraid because "Obama is muslim", "Michelle is a militant black supremacist," etc. In other words, it allows the Obama campaign to focus on non-issues, thus deflecting the narrative from more substantive issues such as, what does this guy really stand for?  Is he going to support the issues that are important to me?

    Obama has given so many conflicting statements that it is very difficult to be certain where he stands on a great many issues that are important to me. I would far rather that the media concentrate on forcing the senator to define his stance on these issues rather than giving him these kinds of easy outs. Who thinks we'll hear anything about his real position on Iraq as long as he has these ridiculous strawmen to denounce?

    I'd also add that anyone swayed by this absurd cover was never going to vote for Obama anyway.

    Parent

    I find this. . . (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:51:10 PM EST
    I believe it trivializes the more subtle but very real concerns that many of us have about Senator Obama.  This cover perpetrates the notion that non-supporters are afraid because "Obama is muslim", "Michelle is a militant black supremacist," etc. In other words, it allows the Obama campaign to focus on non-issues,

    extremely astute.  There is definitely a political play for the Obama campaign in publicizing the very worst trash that's said about him -- the stuff that, say, 75% of the country would be repulsed by.  Or, at least, dislike enough to make it more likely that they'd vote against the trash and therefore for Obama.

    Like Jesse Jackson's comments, the cover seems like something ostensibly negative that Obama could make a lot of hay over.

    Parent

    Agree with both of you (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:12:25 PM EST
    I've noticed that the last few weeks, both CNN and Newsweek have presented the anti-Obama voters by quoting solely people who object to the fact his name as indicating he's secretly a Muslim and similar sentiments.  For the pro-Obama side, they quote 'strategists' and 'analyists'.

    My guess is that this cover would have gone almost completely unnoticed if Obama's supporters and various other hair-trigger pc'ers hadn't made it such an issue, and that they largely would not have done that if they didn't think it would help them more by gaining support from some than hurting them with those who would somehow believe the Muslim/terrorist/etc implications of a literal interpretation.

    Parent

    Your second graf is fascinating (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:07:39 PM EST
    and another level to ponder that hadn't occurred to me might have been behind the New Yorker's thinking -- especially in the context of its coverage of the primaries.  I am going to give your thoughts more  thought and may have a conversation with a friend who is an editorial cartoonist. . . .  Thanks.

    Parent
    thank you (none / 0) (#119)
    by Jane in CA on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:16:34 PM EST
    and I'd be extremely interested in any feedback you might receive from your friend ...

    Parent
    Just talked to a journalism (none / 0) (#167)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:50:05 PM EST
    prof and friend about this, an advisor of a student paper who actually teaches a course on cartooning (and comics! so cool) -- and he was too tired to ponder it much tonight, but we both suspect that this will be an interesting discussion.

    Btw, I'm planning to watch CJR online, the Columbia Journalism Review, for some discussion of this in a media trade publication.  And my friend is on lots of journalists' listservs, so I'm hoping to get more insider reaction.  There are a lot of good analyses and discussions published already, of course, about the perils of editorial cartoons.  I have read that editors sometimes feel that they get more letters on those than just about anything -- except comics and sports columns.  There is no way to please everybody in sports journalism . . . and, of course, there are far more readers of comics and sports columns than there are of editorial cartoons.:-)

    And newspapers don't put their editorial cartoons on the cover.  At least, not anymore.  Now we may see why.

    Parent

    Trivializing the real concerns (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by andrys on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:34:33 PM EST
    EXACTLY.  I wish the real questions would be faced instead of what this will start and keep up probably through the GE.
    HuffPo already has over 625 posts up with 535 waiting for moderators to view them first.

      While I wish he weren't our candidate, no rejection should be based on this kind of thing.  What a step backwards.

      As for those already decided, there have been a lot of people undecided and still there (because our choices according to what some of us prefer in a President are not great), and lately many who have been drawn to him are stopped by the latest unexpected shifting on so many things.  OR just detailing thoughts that were more to-the-right than we'd hope in a Dem candidate.   More or less like so many others who've been supporting him.  

    Parent

    Great political cartoons... (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by dianem on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:30:50 PM EST
    ...always offend people. That's what they're supposed to do - to wake people up, get their attention, make them think. This cartoon doesn't make fun of anybody's race, religion, or gender. It doesn't show the Obama's doing anything embarrassing, it doesn't violate any religious edicts. It gets attention and makes people think. I'm not a big Obama fan, but if he loses I'd rather it be based on his qualifications, or lack thereof, than on lies that are believed by the general public.

    Parent
    wha?? (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by hughman on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:09:39 PM EST
    this cover is obviously meant to be satiric. look at the mag it's published on. anyone claiming anything else obviously has no sense of distance or perspective on the subject it portrays.

    the cartoonist (and it is, after all, a cartoon) made clear his obvious intent. which most sane people assumed already.

    if the nutbags take this and make something more out of it - which they will - it's not rational thinking, it's them. if the CARTOON were drawn about McCain in the same way, they'd make a big deal out of that too. that's what they do.

    furthermore, if this wasn't getting the hubris on the left wing sites as it has, it would have probably not gone that noticed.

    Believe it or not, satire can be offensive (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by andgarden on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:13:19 PM EST
    And if I saw this on a newsstand, I certainly would have noticed.

    Parent
    I'm inclined to agree.... (5.00 / 4) (#22)
    by kdog on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:15:03 PM EST
    there is nothing wrong with the cover, there is nothing wrong with not liking the cover or the satire.

    If people don't get it it's on them, enough with catering to the lowest common denominator.

    Parent

    I agree (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by coolit on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:18:12 PM EST
    No one seems to care what I'm offended by.  Aren't his supporters the one's that say, "get over it?"

    I even like offensive humor sometimes.  It makes you think.  Being politically correct is thoughtless.  It allows us to not think, just react to anything that might not be soft and fluffy.

    Parent

    Voters are often (none / 0) (#33)
    by Coldblue on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:19:29 PM EST
    the lowest common denominator, no?

    Parent
    They're not the New Yorker readers (none / 0) (#67)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:36:53 PM EST
    and the Obama campaign knows it.  Any outcry on this is just more of the stuff that is getting wearying.

    Parent
    I don't think anyone disputes ... (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by Demi Moaned on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:17:22 PM EST
    that the cover was meant to be satiric.

    The question is how will be it used as it is widely disseminated in our popular culture. The jury's out for me, but the argument that it will fan the flames of the ignorance it purports to ridicule is one I cannot dismiss lightly.

    Parent

    Intent matters (5.00 / 5) (#74)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:41:33 PM EST
    Intent is not the whole of it by any means, but the intent is not perpetuate stereotypes but to defuse them.  Or, perhaps, since it's the NYer, to mock them.

    Intentionally exploiting ignorance -- of history, of overblown and incorrect interpretations of political correctness, and narcissistic naivete -- was on the daily lunch menu for one campaign this year.  So on that score, I don't think the Obama campaign comes out ahead.

    Parent

    Wow. Wonderfully well put. (none / 0) (#87)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:45:38 PM EST
    The racist, muslim furiner bigots (none / 0) (#52)
    by sarahfdavis on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:28:16 PM EST
    aren't the new yorker's audience anyway. so they won't see it
    to have those backwards perceptions affirmed anyway.
    The liberal elites are the ones that read this pub and they should get the satire. If not, they should look at why they are offended.


    Parent
    If a New Yorker is widely read (none / 0) (#70)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:39:19 PM EST
    for once, it would be a good sign of a rise in literacy in the American public and an interest in actual societal and political analysis instead of soundbytes.  I wouldn't worry about it happening anytime soon.

    Parent
    I just hope the cover flap (5.00 / 7) (#20)
    by MsExPat on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:13:27 PM EST
    doesn't take the spotlight off Ryan Lizza's excellent and balanced chronicle of Obama's Chicago years. A real eyeopener that pretty much dismantles the media's Obama hagiography.

    The New Yorker seems to be working hard to make up for all those pro-Obama, Clinton-bashing Herztberg screeds.

    But how I wish they had run this piece before the primary!

    Yeh, I also think the NY now knows (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:22:09 PM EST
    it blew it by not maintaining its usually better standards of balance by not reining in Hertzberg.  In many decades of reading the mag and looking forward to when it finally would land in my mail, I never before found myself wanting to throw it across the room and not even wanting to read it.  

    I still approach each issue with trepidation.  A lot of trust has been destroyed by the media themselves this year.  Coverage of the level of cable channels I can get for free and don't need to find between the covers of once-reputable magazines.

    This cover, though?  It's the New Yorker.  The covers often ask of the reader a level of context and analysis.  Interesting, of course, is that the outcry from the Obama camp may get more audience for the Liazza piece.  Is that the best idea?

    Parent

    When I first looked at the cover on (5.00 / 4) (#45)
    by oculus on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:23:28 PM EST
    Huff Post, I though Obama was portrayed as a WWII U.S. sailor fist bumping Angela Davis!

    Parent
    Hah!! (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:46:02 PM EST
    Would that it were so...

    Parent
    There is a photo of Ms. Obama (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:04:23 PM EST
    not that long ago with the Angela Davis hairdo, actually, pre-Jackie O makeover.  I thought the 'fro really worked better for her.  But then, I've always been envious of curly hair on anyone. :-)

    Parent
    While I found it a bit galling. . . (5.00 / 0) (#49)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:27:06 PM EST
    that Hertzberg was supporting Obama while I was supporting Clinton, I looked and couldn't find any actual unfairness on his part.  His writing continued to be insightful and witty -- the only difference is that it was my ox getting Gored.  I did have a break in my subscription during the primary season for a month or two, but I did see a number of Hertzberg's TotT pieces and I don't see any vicious unfairness on his part.

    And his statement "Barack Obama is a the politician of a lifetime.  Unfortunately for Hillary Clinton, it's her lifetime." was a concise summation of the primary for me.

    Parent

    "The Politician of a Lifetime" line (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by MsExPat on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:33:47 PM EST
    now has a whole different meaning after reading Ryan Lizza's article!

    Parent
    My copy won't come. . . (none / 0) (#64)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:35:32 PM EST
    until tomorrow, but I don't suppose there's anything in there that shows Obama to be less of a politician than I think he is, is there?

    Parent
    No, but it will give you specifics, facts (none / 0) (#72)
    by MsExPat on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:40:55 PM EST
    and anecdotes to support your original opinion. In other words, this is the full C.V., as opposed to the thin, highly edited resume that was making the rounds during the primaries.

    Parent
    Hillary Clinton's lifetime(s) (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by MichaelGale on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:35:08 PM EST
    .....Unfortunately for Hillary Clinton, it's her lifetime." Interesting statement.

    I think Senator Clinton has had a few very unique lifetimes so to speak.  I am sure there is another two or three on the horizon.

    Parent

    Barack Obama (none / 0) (#65)
    by pie on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:35:44 PM EST
    is the politician of a lifetime for those who will die before another black man is a nominee.

    It could happen in eight years.

    How old is Hertzberg?

    What a crock.

    Parent

    Bizarre claim (none / 0) (#133)
    by rilkefan on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:35:29 PM EST
    See e.g. this.  He was viciously unfair full stop.

    Parent
    Yeh, and he kept up with that (none / 0) (#147)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:50:45 PM EST
    bandwagon that kept saying that she was dragging out the primaries, that she had lost -- at the time when she was on that great winning streak, which is what caused the boyz on the bus to call for her head, etc.  It really was well below New Yorker standards.

    By which I mean that it's fine go negative and snarky and such, as the New Yorker does so well.  But it could be counted on, in past, to stick to the facts as the basis of its analysis.  Hertzberg read, instead, like a run-of-the-mill blogger no longer reality-based.  And at least those bloggers only use up bandwidth.  Hertzberg became a waste of trees.
     

    Parent

    The New Yorker did the same with the Iraq War (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by MsExPat on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:31:03 PM EST
    They more or less hopped on the bandwagon with all the other "war hawk" pundits. Then, later, when they figured out it was a disaster, they began running all those Sy Hersh investigative pieces.

    I don't particularly like this "Obama Terrorist" cover, because as satire it's pretty ham-handed and dumb. Very adolescent stuff, really. Sterotype satire is quite difficult to pull off. The British are very good at it, though.

    Parent

    So terrible (5.00 / 0) (#86)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:45:20 PM EST
    to have to avoid Hertzberg in particular.  Man, how I used to love his writing when it was directed at actual bad guys.  Honestly, he's one of the last people I would have expected to drink the Kool-Aid.

    Parent
    Same here. That's why it was so upsetting. (none / 0) (#100)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:56:42 PM EST
    For 99% of the media, I have no high expectations.

    Parent
    I wasn't surprised (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by MsExPat on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:10:24 PM EST
    because all the smarty ex-Harvard liberal pundit boys in New York/DC media (Kurt Anderson, Michael Kinsley for instance) were going goo goo for Obama.

    Two reasons: it made them feel cool, instead of like privileged wonky white-boys.  And, also, these guys come out of the era when the Lampoon, the Crimson, and indeed Harvard were male clubs. Even though they are liberals, they still have, uh, issues about powerful, opinionated women....

    Parent

    Could be.... (none / 0) (#181)
    by oldpro on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 02:20:42 AM EST
    but then, why would Michael marry Patty Stonesipher...not exactly a shrinking violet.

    Parent
    Please... (none / 0) (#183)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 02:36:14 AM EST
    this is like that joke/denial of sexism that goes "of course I don't hate women, I married one, didn't  I?"

    Parent
    Nah... (none / 0) (#189)
    by oldpro on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 03:26:21 AM EST
    not the same thing.

    Men who hate women ordinarily marry women they can dominate, humiliate, control.

    That is not the case here.

    Still, there's a problem.  I think it is elitism.

    Parent

    The Net is what it is (5.00 / 0) (#146)
    by andrys on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:50:16 PM EST
    I can't tell you how many people tell me they get emails about Obama's Muslim background and they worry about it -- that includes members of family (we have big families).  

    One thing that groups of friends and family members have learned how to do on the Net - and that's to email go large groups worried-over-stories to one another, piles of them.  

    Once a digital image is on the Net and it causes emotions to go high, it gets distributed everywhere, out of context, etc.  You know the usual hysteria in those kinds of email too.

      And the New Yorker has a bigger reading-audience than I could have guessed.  I was quoted in a story last Fall about a big piano fraud in the UK, and after the very long story came out (and my main quote was near the end so you would think most people wouldn't get that far), I heard from people I hadn't talked to in 37 years, 25, 20 years.  It was quite incredible.  Also heard from current friends I didn't mention it to.  I'm not a subscriber myself.  

      But that cover - it'll become a poster.  Too easy to go down to the local shop and get one made for $10 these days.  Not to mention it's free to print off the web.

      There's a lot of wishful-thinking in some of that worry too, I sometimes think, due to racial fears in general, and this is how people express it.  But I do know some people want to vote for him because they're Democrats but just don't know what to think, and this won't help when it circulates without context.

    Parent

    Good question (none / 0) (#81)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:43:09 PM EST
    Why didn't they commission this piece before the primaries were over? It's academic, at this point.  Their readership is overwhelmingly Dem.


    Parent
    They probably DID commission the piece (5.00 / 0) (#94)
    by MsExPat on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:49:54 PM EST
    during the primaries. New Yorker articles are painstakingly copy edited and researched, and usually have a fair amount of "lead time". Ryan Lizza's piece had a lot of interviews--not just phoners, but personal ones--and reportorial footwork. That's hard to pull together on a dime. I'd guess he'd been working on it at least six weeks, possibly longer.

    And I wouldn't be surprised if the New Yorker DELIBERATELY ran the piece after the primaries were over.

    Parent

    I vaguely recall. . . (none / 0) (#90)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:47:06 PM EST
    that they did have a piece on him during the primaries -- or leading up to them (I'm thinking last fall, maybe?)  I don't remember it being exceptionally complementary, either.

    I need to look back, because it's odd they'd do two in one year.  I may be mixing it up with some other publication.

    Parent

    It has nothing to do with race, gender (5.00 / 5) (#26)
    by dianem on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:17:09 PM EST
    ...or religion. Obama isn't doing anything religious - he's fist bumping his wife. It isn't as if she's wearing a burka or he's kneeling and praying. This is actually an excellent commentary on the portrayal of Obama as a Muslim and his wife as anti-American.  It's totally, clearly, over the top political cartooning of the highest order. It could not possibly be mistaken for a serious insult by anybody who isn't looking for insult.

    I hope they don't apologize. This brings up something that needs to be addressed, not dismissed. A surprising number of Americans believe that Obama is a Muslim and Michelle is not a loyal American. This kind of cartoon can open up exactly the kind of discussion his campaign needs to have. They should be welcoming it, not criticizing it. This kind of thing can turn around elections - by making it clear to people that their prejudices are ridiculous.

    Politically speaking (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:21:12 PM EST
    These discussions don't fair well in the media because the media feels compelled to turn it into a debate with two equally represented side, when the truth is there is no side to represent here but the truth.

    For instance:  They had a "debate" about Kerry's war record.

    Parent

    You can't debate Obama being Muslim (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by dianem on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:35:55 PM EST
    ...or Michelle being a terrorist. There is no way anybody can sound anything but ridiculous saying "Does Michelle Obama have terrorist leanings? Yes or No?" or "Is Obama secretly a Muslim who is going to destroy American?".

    Parent
    I didn't think (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:43:45 PM EST
    You could debate Kerry's war record.  And the media went ahead and did it.

    Bad miscalculation on my part.  His too, I think.

    Parent

    But the faux even-handedness of the media (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:49:07 PM EST
    (this has long been an extremely sore point with me, btw) is faux in a way that tips the argument toward the side of whatever issue they believe or have an interest in promoting.

    I expect no faux-balanced reporting on this cover at all.

    And if I'm wrong, then it will mean that BO's media darling status has finally and truly ended and herald the beginning of the MSM's stampede to defeat the Dem once again.

    Parent

    Ergo (none / 0) (#97)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:52:42 PM EST
    The Obama campaign's reaction to this is politically motivated.  

    Blitt better like shrimp and remember to tip the bartender.


    Parent

    We'll see, I suppose (none / 0) (#102)
    by dianem on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:00:23 PM EST
    I asked my husband what he thought of the cover, and he was in the "offensive" camp. Keep in mind that Kerry's war record was not really debated much in the media - the swift boat allegations were. They were from veterans, and thus had to be taken seriously. This cover isn't meant to be taken seriously, so it will be difficult to discuss it as if it were. Theres a flag burning in the fireplace and a picture of Osama bin ladin on the wall of the oval office, fercryingoutload. If Obama supporter's can't turn this into an advantage, I'll be surprised.

    Parent
    Maybe not much (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:09:07 PM EST
    But it wasn't on FNC, it was on CNN and it was typical talking head pundit theater.  A debate about Kerry's war record.  One person arguing for it citing facts, documentation, testimony, etc.  The other person using hyperbole, hearsay and rhetoric.  And the moderator pretending both had made a valid case.

    That's when I knew Kerry lost that debate.


    Parent

    I get the satire, in an academic sorta way (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by samtaylor2 on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:18:53 PM EST
    And it is satirical, and in a classroom it would spark interesting debate, but in the real world where people aren't going to read the article, or take the picture within the context of many great New Yorker covers, it is irresponsible.  

    Unfortunately, I am guessing the editors didn't say, boy this is great satire, they said this is going to sell a lot of copies, which makes the picture and their publishing of it not intellecutally honest.

    I also don't understand the response, it happened to Clinton so it is okay now that it happened to Obama?  

    Really, it's the New Yorker (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:25:21 PM EST
    and not sold that much on newsstands next to the far more popular race-car and soft-porn mags.  The most likely nonsubscribers to see it are postal workers.

    And they've already seen it all, so they're just about blind to it all.

    Parent

    Good line about postal workers. (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by OrangeFur on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:40:00 PM EST
    I'd also add people waiting in their dentists' offices.

    Parent
    You have a classy dentist (none / 0) (#148)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:52:39 PM EST
    and I have to bring my own magazines to be spared the stuff that I find in my dentist's office.  Ugh.

    Parent
    It goes with the (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by pie on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:32:03 PM EST
    territory.

    Whatever is said about her, she remains above it all.  She takes on all detractors.

    Obama has a lot to learn.

    Parent

    Dontcha ever get tired.... (5.00 / 0) (#80)
    by kdog on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:42:19 PM EST
    of catering to people who only look at the cover, who only look at headlines?

    I mean lets face it...these people are hopleless...we could sanitize every political cartoon that could potentially be misunderstood and these people would still be clueless.  And the rest of us with half a brain are left with our thoughts less stimulated.  


    Parent

    I don't get it (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by blogtopus on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:19:26 PM EST
    Now all the artists in the nation have to relinquish their imagination / creative ability so that the Right Wing won't be able to use it to their advantage? Is THAT what I'm seeing here?

    What a non-issue. Obama needs some thicker skin and a bigger sense of humor if he's going to survive past September (we know he'll make it past August because the DNC has their official candidate stretcher ready to push him out the convention hall doors.)

    As an artist (more specifically an illustrator), I have to say the illustration itself is hilarious and meant to appeal to all those in the 'creative class' who supposedly have the mental capacity to see the backward slap at the Right's view of Obama. The only people who aren't supposed to "get it" are the ones who hate him already, no?

    He's going to be "disappointed" (5.00 / 0) (#124)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:22:21 PM EST
    a lot, I would bet.  He's "disappointed" in the New Yorker cover, I also would bet.  Points to him for not losing his temper at those times, as he knows not to match the rumors about McCain's impulse management.  Not sure, though, that the "disappointed" thing works that much better.  With the media, sure, but if he gets "disappointed" about the American public, they won't like the patronizing tone.

    My way of agreeing that, yes, he needs to work on handling the inevitable with humor -- because, yes, inevitable it is.  In September for us, but maybe even mid-August.  It's an odd calendar this year with the late conventions, and I bet that the GOP is having a hard time holding back.

    Parent

    LOL at the Obama camp's (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by LatinoVoter on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:20:50 PM EST
    outrage. Where was the outrage when the satire site of the HuffingtonPost published those sexist fake magazine covers of Michelle? Oh there wasn't any. In fact when Wright became mainstream news the Obama camp legitimized HuffingtonPost by posting the first response on that blog.

    Them throwing a hissy fit over this cover after what they let slide from the Huffpo is hilarious.

    Ladies and Gentlemen, your New Democratic Party
    (magazine covers from Huffpo's satire site)

    Wow, I almost dropped my souvenir HRC nutcracker! (5.00 / 6) (#69)
    by Ellie on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:37:58 PM EST
    ... in shock.

    But TeamObama was nowhere around to counter that bigotry as it was the "good" kind that assisted their campaign.

    I wish them well in fighting this. As someone who has been a longtime activist with NGOs or in personal activism, I support global human rights and oppose bigotry and persecution of any human being.

    I oppose it even when it's fomented by cynical political campaigns designating Typical White Persons like myself as racists because it's "brilliant" campaign strategy and later, "just" politics moving to the center.

    I extend an invitation to Team Obama to notify me for Pester-Web duty, once the racism reaches lawn jockey proportions and conventional media laugh along as they did at non-compliant women using the nutcracker (AKA the Feminist Lawn Jockey) as a prop.

    Perhaps the advice I was given by them might be applied to this case: are they being too "sensitive", lacking in humor, failing to heal, being irrationally angry and looking for an excuse to be grumpy?

    They're setting up ANY 527 ad (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:44:20 PM EST
    to be denounced as racist, I suspect.

    Republicans really won't be stopped by that.

    Parent

    a different view (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by TChris on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:48:48 PM EST
    If the cover were on a different magazine I would be suspicious of the motive behind its publication.  On  the cover of the New Yorker I view it as an artist's use of satire to expose the perspective that some members of our nation have of Obama--a perspective that is in fact influenced by stereotypes and that some members of the Republican hit squad will try to reinforce.  The fact that some people might not get it (and not many of those people subscribe to the New Yorker) isn't a good reason to decline the opportunity to make an artistic statement about the issue of race in this election.  Tasteless, sure, but I think that's the point.  It is the ideas being lampooned that are offensive, not the lampooning of them, at least to me.  I think the cover "works" by contributing to an important and ongoing national discussion about the need to view each other as people, not as stereotypes.  I don't fault the New Yorker for trying to advance that discussion.

    I don't think anyone questions the motive. (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:01:50 PM EST
    It's the wisdom of doing it that I think is being debated.

    I personally think the point could have been better satirized if it were John and Cindy McCain in the picture.

    Parent

    I might have chuckled at that one! (none / 0) (#121)
    by andgarden on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:19:31 PM EST
    Now that -- that is funny, Larry. (none / 0) (#126)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:23:28 PM EST
    Seriously. . . (5.00 / 0) (#128)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:26:32 PM EST
    the point the cartoonist says he's trying to make -- the ridiculousness of all the loony claims made about Obama -- would be better shown by making the McCains the target.

    But I doubt even the New Yorker has the guts to publish a cartoon like that.

    Parent

    Being the New Yorker, it actually (none / 0) (#98)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:54:15 PM EST
    is mocking the non-sophisticated rest of the country as usual, I would guess.  The bitter Midwesterners clinging to guns and (mainline Protestant) religion.

    For context, of course, recall the famous New Yorker covers (1939 and 1987, I think) of the map of this country as seen by New Yorkers.  Of course, those were especially brilliant because they managed to mock not only the rest of us as barely on the map but also New Yorkers' worldview.

    Parent

    What makes you think. . . (none / 0) (#99)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:55:43 PM EST
    those covers were mocking New Yorkers' world view?

    Parent
    Ah, NYC Larry, you are the exception (none / 0) (#104)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:01:13 PM EST
    of course and no doubt know that there is an entire state between Chicago and the Canadian border.  And some Great Lakes, too.  I use those covers on PowerPoints in one of my classes (on a relevant topic, really -- a series of maps of where people around the country "place" the Midwest; it's hysterical), and students today who have not seen those covers on posters everywhere, as we did, find it an absolute howler that Chicago is on the border.

    Parent
    Of course I know where Chicago is. . . (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:04:29 PM EST
    It's at the Ambassador Theater on 49th street -- although I think it might have closed.

    Parent
    I've heard of the Midwest (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by MsExPat on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:15:39 PM EST
    but I've never gotten around to applying for a visa.

    Parent
    We're the best-kept secret (5.00 / 0) (#129)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:28:32 PM EST
    in the country.  Oh, and you don't need a visa.  You just need to know the three best dips for cheese curds and/or ingredients for entirely white-food casseroles aka "a dish to pass" with canned chicken in it and/or you need to do the chicken dance at the border.  

    That's where we have our fun, seeing if anyone can figure out just where are the borders to the Midwest. :-)  

    Parent

    The chicken dance! (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by A little night musing on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:35:18 PM EST
    Oooh wait! I know that one! But... the guy who taught it to us was Israeli. -?!-

    Is the Midwest near the Middle East? ;>

    Parent

    Cheese Curds!?@#? (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by MsExPat on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:42:28 PM EST
    In my life, I've eaten a lot of off the wall things, from goose feet and duck tongues to fried locusts and roasted witchety grubs.

    I wouldn't recognize a cheese curd if it walked up and kissed me.

    Hmmm. A most exotic country, this "Midwest".

    Parent

    I can brag to having eaten (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:46:01 PM EST
    fresh cheese curd, while in the Midwest, in fact.

    But never had fried cheese curd.  An opportunity that passed me by...

    Parent

    Yeh, 1000 calories a curd (5.00 / 0) (#153)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:57:05 PM EST
    once you take the fatty stuff and deep-fry and then dip it in a fatty dressing, mmmmm.  And wash it down with a brewski.

    That's why we needed the chicken dance, a way to work off the calories that can be accomplished without spilling a drop.  Btw, I'm proud to be in the town that not only leads the country in cheese-curd consumption but also is the site of the creation of the chicken dance.  Not a coincidence.

    Parent

    The Obama campaign (none / 0) (#101)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:59:29 PM EST
    Doesn't want to have that discussion.

    Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton called it "tasteless and offensive"


    Parent
    And hasn't Obama himself spent (none / 0) (#120)
    by nycstray on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:17:10 PM EST
    a fair bit of time trying to call this (BS rumors) out? Heck, he's got a page on his site dedicated to it. Seems to me he might want to use the cover for discussion vs outrage. For instance, the "Muslim" issue needs to be handled more even handedly vs outrage, imo. But then again, seems like it's the same mouth piece that said Hillary was waiting for Obama to be assassinated . . . Maybe they aren't the people to have the "national discussion" after all.

    Parent
    Obama's bungled the "Muslim" issue (5.00 / 4) (#130)
    by MsExPat on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:33:52 PM EST
    Because time and again his response is "I'm not Muslim, I'm Christian, and you are smearing me if you suggest otherwise."

    Why doesn't Obama instead say, "I'm not a Muslim, but why would this be a bad thing? America is home to millions of Muslims...they are part of our nations' fabric as are Jews, Hindus, etc.

    As Naomi Klein has pointed out, Obama has an opportunity to open up a really fruitful and consciousness-raising dialogue.

    Instead of taking the high road here, he's running in the opposite direction.

    Parent

    Agree 100% (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by A little night musing on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:41:31 PM EST
    I wish wish wish he would show some leadership on this matters (and some others). He has the opportunities being handed to him on platters; why not use that famous inspiring rhetorical ability to move the national discussion to a better place?

    Parent
    "tasteless and offensive" isn't quite (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by nycstray on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:42:53 PM EST
    the right direction, eh  ;)

    Thankfully, I'll be missing all the "outrage" this fall. The baseball/football overlap should do me just fine. Politics? What's that?! If he gets elected, are we going to have to put up with 4 yrs of "outrage"? Oy.

    Parent

    I am not suspicious of the motive (none / 0) (#166)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:45:41 PM EST
    I am saying the attempt at satire failed as it almost invariably does when it involves sexist, racist and religious stereotypes.

    Do you think it was successful?

    Parent

    I suspect that the majority of voters (5.00 / 0) (#123)
    by Mari on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:21:56 PM EST
    are not sophisticated enough to see the cover as satire. There is an undercurrent of suspicion about the Obamas that will flare to surface with this cover. It could be a good opportunity for Obama to clarify himself. He has to be careful though, because he's complained and whined too often in the past in response to routine political jousting. The media and the general public won't take him seriously. He may very well reap what he has sown during the primary.

    This is the New Yorker here... (none / 0) (#137)
    by OrangeFur on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:38:25 PM EST
    I can't imagine more than a sliver of its readers could see the cover as anything but satire.

    Parent
    Unless television news picks it up (none / 0) (#155)
    by Mari on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:00:36 PM EST
    most people won't see the cover. Only avid internet political readers are probably following this and of course, readers of the New Yorker will see it.

    Parent
    Kinda funny to me (5.00 / 4) (#125)
    by Steve M on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:23:03 PM EST
    You know how you know it's not real?  There's no bus!

    Crying wolf ... (5.00 / 3) (#135)
    by OrangeFur on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:35:59 PM EST
    Is the cover offensive? I haven't really looked into it, but I'd be astonished if the New Yorker meant to perpetrate or promote the Obama/Muslim misconceptions in any way. My strong tendency is to believe the New Yorker on this one.

    The Obama/Muslim stuff is so obviously known to be false that I can't believe people are still accusing other people of perpetrating it. No minimally respectable person would dare promote these rumors, and yet the reputations of good people are repeatedly slandered by the suggestion that they're immoral enough to do so.

    To wit:

    1. Bob Kerrey, who made the suggestion that Obama's heritage might be helpful in reaching out to the Middle East. Immediately deemed a racist.

    2. The Clinton campaign generally, because Matt Drudge spread an unsubstantiated rumor that it was distribution an easily available press photo of Obama wearing tribal clothing.

    3. Hillary Clinton herself, who forcefully rejected the notion that Obama might be Muslim on 60 Minutes, only to have irresponsible journalists and overactive bloggers accuse her of vilely promoting the issue.

    Enough already. These days, the rumors seem to get the most play when the Obama campaign or its supporters baselessly accuse someone else of promoting them.

    It was shameful (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by Mari on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:06:15 PM EST
    the way Obama kept saying he is Christian while implying something was wrong with being a Muslim. He needs to show some backbone. He has no loyalty to his family. Wasn't his father Muslim?

    Parent
    Yes, and he has Muslim relatives (5.00 / 3) (#160)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:18:12 PM EST
    and so do a lot of people in this world, including a lot more Americans than many people think is so.

    I think the reluctance to address this is more likely because it then leads to the revelation for a lot of people that Obama's heritage is, although from Kenya, actually Arab.  (I.e., a large group of Arabs migrated there generations ago, and Kenyans make the distinction, I'm told.)  And I certainly can understand that, in these times, it would be even more difficult for a lot of people to deal with that -- as few of us here are taught much about how marvelously diverse is the continent of Africa.  (I'm fortunate to have family there who are trying to catch me up fast.:-)

    Easier to just stick with calling him African American.  And, I suppose, to avoid the Muslim issue -- at least for now, and maybe he hopes to have the weight of the Oval Office behind him to clarify all this and improve understanding of it all.  I, for one, also would be happy for him to focus far more on the economy. :-)

    Parent

    The worst aspect was that Obama himself (5.00 / 4) (#161)
    by andrys on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:32:35 PM EST
    told his rallies (after a key Debate in which he said he believed her and they'd get beyond it now) that "She ...  leaked the photo ... of me" in Kenya garb and then at the same rally (I watched live moments from both Mississippi rallies), he accused her (to his fans) of "not supporting me" on 60 Minutes.

      These are the actions of a young person hoping to get the parents or the authorities to do something about his wicked sibling, fully aware she most certainly did defend him.  These were calculated to build antipathy that 'she' would do these awful things to him and it was meant to create a form of hatred which we see to this day on forums, in which they cite #2 and #3 as evidence Hillary is 'evil" ...

      So it has been difficult for me to come to support him.  I find it repellent.  Not to mention his awful No's on revotes and then taking delegates assigned to him from her.

      It is fundamentally wrong and shows a large lack of character in my own view.  

      RE that 60 Minutes episode, Media Matters has expanded that article - and it takes either liars or ignorants to keep writing out in boilerplate on the various forums the Obama versions of what happened.

    Parent

    Everyone who... (5.00 / 4) (#178)
    by OrangeFur on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 12:45:44 AM EST
    ... promulgated the lie that Clinton was doing anything other than rejecting the Obama/Muslim rumors has a permanent spot on my lost-respect list. Bob Herbert, Harold Meyerson, Josh Marshall, etc. etc. This was a media-invented smear of the first order.

    Parent
    Looking back, it was just (5.00 / 3) (#179)
    by Cream City on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 01:26:08 AM EST
    reeling from one incident of hype to another, wasn't it?  And that was the plan, I'm sure of it -- and the media you name and many others just bought it.  Some -- Eugene Robinson, for one -- even helped to start it with the musings misstating a Bradley effect (misstatements never corrected, and the theory -- and only that -- continues to be misstated) and the outcry that "fairy tale" was a racist slur, although I have yet to find an explanation of what the phrase has to do with race.

    I've got to chart this some day, but it seemed from then on that every few days -- with every primary -- came the incidents you note and so many more.  I know I was reeling, trying to keep up with it, so I cannot imagine what it must have been like in the Clinton camp.  And of course, for the Clintons, it was so Rovian to attack them on this.  I fully understand Bill Clinton just staying away from it all now, if only for his health.


    Parent

    The "fairy tale" phrase - it was used (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by andrys on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 04:18:37 AM EST
    in Machiavellian style at first by Brazile (for a WEEK) and then by others including Robinson and the superdelegate from South Carolina after Bill Clinton went on a tear at a small rally about how Obama's voting record on Iraq did not show him being against the war when he became a senator  -- his voting on Iraq war funding was identical to Hillary's -- they both were being careful not to de-fund protection for the soldiers already there since BushTeam had control of where the funds would go and they were claiming it was for the troops (who didn't have proper tank equipment or protective wear).  Obama differed only in that he voted to approve Casey while she voted No.

      So, after explaining his voting was the same as Hillary's, Clinton said "this whole thing has been a fairy tale" meaning in his summation the description he just gave of the bad reporting on Obama's alleged anti-war stance as a U.S. Senator and his vaunted 'record' of opposing the Iraq war.  

    You'll see this in unedited tapes.  Brazile complained loudly for a week that Clinton had called Obama's CAMPAIGN a 'fairy tale' which he had not.  Others jumped on, which you saw.

      It served to finally get the voting bloc that had still been supporting Clinton, because they became convinced that Bill Clinton had utterly belittled Obama.
      Michelle had said that they had to "wake up" !

    Politico got the transcript  of the BClinton remarks from Swamp Politics and then wrote

    "Anyway, The Swamp has Clinton's full transcript, and he's right that the "fairy tale" quote refers to media coverage. He was also pretty hard on Obama's experience in the exchange..."

      And some will remember that Tim Russert in one interview/debate holding up suddenly (as only he could) the several-page memo that ObamaTeam was passing to select press telling them to watch for racial code in the words of the Clintons and listing which ones and what they meant, decoded, so to speak.

      It's on Youtube at the end of a long clip.  Obama says to Russert in this video not only had they stopped doing that but it would not be done again - he said this in the most respectful and apologetic way, to Russert.

      Re the Iraq war and their varying environments at the time:

      In years 2004 and 2006, Obama had a different take on his opposition vs Hillary's and you can see his two quotes on his not having seen WH memos since he wasn't a US Senator yet while she had to vote and more details on that plus other aspects of it.

      Just this May I was watching him tell crowds that he would get the troops out by the end of 2009 (this is on videotape) and then said that he was against the war in 2002, against it in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008.  

      Being against it while voting for funding is not very different from Clinton giving a speech before voting that

    "My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of pre-emption, or for uni-lateralism, or for the arrogance of American power or purpose -- all of which carry grave dangers for our nation, for the rule of international law and for the peace and security of people throughout the world."

      It was a vote for a last ditch effort to avoid war (and it would have worked but Bush paid no attention to the Resolution's wording re conditions and he should have been impeached).  People have managed to spin it into a "Clinton Wanted War" vote.

      Re Obama's speech against the Iraq War (NO tape exists so he had to go into a studio and film a re-enactment of what he says he said that day which you can see moments from on one or two of his tv ads) -- Axelrod and Team have confirmed they had to re-enact it as there just was no tape of that speech.  It was apparently not a big crowd or event.

    Parent

    Returning to BTD's comment (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by A little night musing on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:12:48 PM EST
    Satire involving racist, sexist and religious stereotypes just do not work

    I've been thinking about this (wondering if I agree with it). I think there's something to it.

    The problem is that jokes employing racist, sexist, or religious stereotypes are also used to reinforce those stereotypes or in group-formation or establishing group membership (where reinforcing the stereotype also comes into play). Could I see this cartoon being used by someone who believes Obama to be a dangerously left-wing revolutionary (and I am amazed to find there are such people) not as satire, but as that other kind of joke? It's so clear to me that it's a New Yorker cover, I think I would recognize it as such even without being told, but absent that context, I dunno, maybe, yes.

    And that's a problem. Being a cartoon and easily available it can be ripped from its context.

    There's also the aspect of "it is ridiculous that people think these kind of things about the Obamas but they would indeed be bad if they were true." For example, that it would be a bad thing if Obama were a Muslim (but he is not). And in that sense even the satire works in a direction of reinforcing bad stereotypes.

    Dang. I've got to think about this some more.

    It would go a long way to explaining my discomfort when I saw the cover even though it was clear to me what the artist intended by it. (The rest of my discomfort being the thought that "OMG we'll never hear the end of this, and that's it for discussion of real problems we may have with Obama.")

    And some would think, 'New Yorker' ! (5.00 / 2) (#168)
    by andrys on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:52:13 PM EST
    That's an long-time established traditional American magazine and they have that on the COVER!

      As noted, few might read the articles inside, though this article, balanced as it is, could still cause problems.

      But at least they're readying the audience.  The 527s will just illustrate with video, clearly, to mainstream audiences in primetime TV ads, the relationships involved in all the Chicago deals, the inability to reach across the aisle while the Repubs were in charge and the willingness to take credit for others' years-long bill-creation work in order that Jones and he could build up a record for himself as when he asked Jones if he'd like to make a U.S. Senator.

     The absence of records for the time he was state senator (no staff) and getting campaign funding, the interactions with Rezko which in a debate were said to amount to a few hours of work for O's law firm and now we know they took vacations together and bought property in tandem while not admitting it until he had to, this past year (no law broken, just bad judgment and some untruths for awhile).  Rezko has been found guilty of "influence peddling" so his majority fundraising is a sensitive issue along with the two gatherings for Auchi (the Iraqi money man) and introductions ("look whom I know"), and there are Republicans heavily at work on this for months now but they won't be focusing on it until after the nomination is secured in late August.

      Lately the Sun-Times is focusing on grants given to people to improve poor areas for which hardly anything was done, for $100,000 in one case.  It's that Chicago history that won't be helping.   LOTS of videos of the slums of Rezko that Obama helped get more funding for Rezko for (no one knows if he knew -- complaints were forwarded to proper authorites, his campaign staff says).

      Supportive Democrats need to be aware of this too.  
    It's said that Jones is being seriously investigated now and the governor involved in that Rezko influence peddling may himself be indicted.  This is just stuff they'll point out and let the viewers decide.  

      The primary audience that saw so much of his long-time Chicago associations saw them on cable news, which is a small crowd, and the primaries-involved are a subset of the general electorate.  It'll be 'new' to many.

      Mainstream stories like the New Yorker one also, while mild, clearly show he is not 'new politics' except possibly smarter politics (until March).  I think he's a gifted guy but I haven't found a core yet of strong beliefs or things he cares about (except for some things he says that surprise in the wrong direction lately).
     

    Parent

    South Park Satirizes Racism/Sexism/etc (5.00 / 0) (#162)
    by Dan the Man on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:35:31 PM EST
    all the time.  And it's pretty popular.  My guess is you are not a South Park fan?  I'm not saying this as a defense of South Park humor - I don't watch it because I don't like it for its type of humor.  But I would like to point out the youngens (and Obama bloggers) that Obama likes to court so much are the big South Park fans and  those youngens liked Obama much more than Hillary Clinton because he was so much more like them.

    Isn't it ironic (don't ya think?), that Obama doesn't appreciate the humor of all those people who thinks he's so cool and just like them (unlike Hillary of course).

    Popularity? (none / 0) (#164)
    by A little night musing on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:44:08 PM EST
    Not sure what the popularity (or unpopularity) of that sort of satire has to do with it.

    Parent
    97% of the liberal blogosphere loves South Park (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by jerry on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 02:57:52 AM EST
    I don't watch it, but I don't watch much TV, and have too much ADD these days to sit still for it, but the interesting South Park connection I see is that if you wander across the liberal blogosphere at the bloggers up in arms tonight about this New Yorker cover, you'll see that the vast majority of them have lots and lots of positive things to say about South Park, and how wonderful it is for them to be offend people, and to say crude, bigoted, homophobic, anti-religious statements about Tom Cruise, and Al Gore, and anyone they damn well please.

    So it's more pearl clutching if you ask me, but this time it's our prime time liberal bloggers clutching the pearls.

    Parent

    I was embarrassed that the NYT mag (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by thereyougo on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:41:20 PM EST
    chose to show this as satire, but, reasonably the Obamas should get used to it. Its not like its not obvious, I mean, with a name like his its inviting this sort of thing. They should have thick skins by now.

    The Obamas should be worried about how HE is coming across through his own statements, and his supporters who appear to excuse anything he says.

    I Want to Move to England (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by rorschachtest on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 12:33:48 AM EST
    I want to move to England. Political satire is supposed to be tasteless and offensive. I am a New Yorker who has read and loved the New Yorker every week since 1960, when I was 15. I enjoyed the cover, as I have enjoyed other covers by the same artist. I laughed aloud.

    What I did find offensive was the response of the Obama campaign. If they had any humor or political shrewdness, they would have laughed, said they loved it, thanked the artist profusely for doing more to defuse the absurd smears than the campaign had managed in 18 months. Instead, the cover is going to appear everywhere in America tomorrow. Obama is going to come across as an unsophisticated mid-Westerner who can't handle New Yorker humor. And many more people are going to read the inside story, depicting him as the ultimate pol. The ultimate pol would have handled this more intelligently.

    PBS urgently needs to do a special on political cartoons in American history, or better still, in English history.

    I agree (none / 0) (#180)
    by Salo on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 01:43:20 AM EST
    He's a thin skinned whiner.

    Parent
    Yes, but that seems to be all the rage this year. (none / 0) (#182)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 02:33:50 AM EST
    So maybe their response will help him.

    I would like to think this tempest in a teacup would not affect the political discourse, and esp. not distract from the extremely serious issues at stake in this campaign.  But diversion has been a successful tactic for the Obama campaign for months.  It'll be interesting to see if this will become yet another diversion.

    Parent

    Pant suit (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by phat on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 03:02:43 AM EST
    This shouldn't surprise people. It was bound to happen. The New Yorker is not what it used to be, it hasn't been for some time.

    If the press are willing to use sexist codewords to define Clinton they are just as likely to not be afraid of using any of the other codewords to define Obama. The floodgates were opened months ago and now we are beginning to see the inevitable outcome of that.

    This is going to be a brutal summer.

    It was predicted, I'm afraid.

    Not getting what's sparking this outrage (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by Ellie on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 03:04:52 AM EST
    The cover's tepid compared to the editorial cartoons on other candidates in this campaign and past ones.

    It's not even close to what the Obama campaign (and its supporters) have fanned for the cynical purpose of removing a rival in the primaries.

    This cover tempest strikes me more as the campaign's attempt to see what kind of levers it can pull against any (critical) media covering Obama outside the campaign's tight control. It's a test to see if media blink and who'll run with it.

    However, the Rethugs helpfully provided pundits with a target for their frat humor pile-ons. Obama's NuDem Boss Machine can't provide the same service using racism as leverage.

    My guess is that even In The Tank for Obama media will balk at this control device.

    Anyone see Jon Stewart telling a palpably uncomfortable audience during a flop sweat-filled moment -- after a bit criticizing Obama -- that it was okay to laugh?

    I don't remember outrage (5.00 / 2) (#197)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 07:46:58 AM EST
    when HRC was satirized on SNL. Or did I miss a press release?  Is this another freedom he would like to suppress under the FISA bill?  I am sure they could add something last minute...

    remember the attacks on Bob Kerrey (none / 0) (#198)
    by Katherine Graham Cracker on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 08:31:10 AM EST
    And then Obama supporters started using Hussein as their middle names too.  No matter what --the Obama response is outrage that HE would be treated this way.  It is a great opportunity to make fun of the rightwing rumors but instead they give them credibility .

    Parent
    I heard a wonderful comment (5.00 / 0) (#199)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 08:46:42 AM EST
    on the Obama network just before I came to work.
    talking head: "If you have to come on TV and explain it maybe its not appropriate?"

    translation:
    if we are to stupid and thin skinned to get it it is not appropriate.

    Meh, it was satire, (5.00 / 0) (#208)
    by shoulin4 on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 11:05:07 PM EST
    it (the cover) just wasn't done very well. Yes the New Yorker is "liberal" but walking by a news stand with a magazine with a cover like that, and it may just confirm some underlying biases. That's the whole point, I think. On the other hand, what are you going to do about people who still think the Earth is flat?

    If you think the image is controversial... (4.75 / 4) (#149)
    by dianem on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:52:54 PM EST
    ...wait until you read the article that goes with it. I'm only halfway through, but ... wow. It is not flattering toward Obama. I suspect that any opposition Obama's campaign has to the cover is at least partially intended to diminish the impact of the story. They need to turn the nation's attention to something until the article becomes old news. That's going to take something pretty impressive - the cover may do it.

    it is very typical (4.33 / 9) (#7)
    by coolit on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:02:49 PM EST
    for Obama and his people to take something, that is meant to be innocent, and turn it into something racist.  I don't know why people haven't caught on yet, it happens nearly every week.  Any time anyone remotely politically incorrectly refers to Obama he reacts with, "RACISM!  RACISM! RACISM!"

    It is his attempt to inoculate himself from all criticism he forces the extremely squeamish media afraid to say anything negative about him.  And do you know what??  It's working.

    I am sure they will apologize.  I will not.

    And I wont vote for him.

    He is a different kind of politician.... the worst kind.  He has used race to manipulate the entire campaign.  

    As for policy, he is either wrong or a complete flake on every important issue.

    The thought had occured to me (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:07:49 PM EST
    What if Axlrod, Pelosi, Obama and co. got together and somehow managed to redeploy the word "capitulating" back out into the American lexicon as a word inundated with racist overtones?

    That might be one way for him to deal with his "friends from the left."

    Anyway.  It's scary stuff.  Everyone's fair game at this point.

    Parent

    Racism Isn't the Issue of This Cover (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by daring grace on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:18:15 PM EST
    to me.

    The issue is it crudely reinforces insidious lies about Obama and will be used by those who delight in spreading these lies.

    What's more I can see the media feeling free to slime Obama and Clinton in this way, but when do we get the one 'satirizing' McCain and his wives and his temper etc, not to mention his age?

    Parent

    Uh, it's mocking anyone (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:28:07 PM EST
    who takes seriously the stupid Muslim stuff.

    Now we apparently will have a new subgroup that takes seriously the New Yorker covers.  

    Parent

    karma is a tough lady. what goes around (5.00 / 3) (#140)
    by hellothere on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:42:14 PM EST
    comes around so to speak. the point is this man decided to run for president. he should know what was waiting. it isn't pretty. i wouldn't want to expose myself and family to that. this is going to happen and probably worse. i just can't work up any outrage about it. i am sorta out of outrage. it was used up in the primary. he ran for it knowing these things would happen. so what are we going to do walk on egg shells for four years. the bloom will wear off and the criticism some well meant and some not will come.

    Parent
    Reinforces them? (5.00 / 0) (#76)
    by dianem on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:41:54 PM EST
    It tears them to shreds. There is nothing subtle here. If it were just Obama in African garb, it might be considered reinforcing stereotypes, but how could anybody take the image of Michelle Obama dressed that way seriously?

    Parent
    Well, yes.... (none / 0) (#152)
    by oldpro on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:57:02 PM EST
    her outfit is clearly an over-the-top put on.

    What grabbed me, though, was her expression.  He sure as H_#/ got that right.

    Parent

    What lies? (none / 0) (#44)
    by coolit on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:23:11 PM EST
    He wore an outfit that looked just like that.  So what?  It doesn't have anything to do with him as a president.  

    Parent
    Well, I'm ambivalent on objecting to satire (none / 0) (#50)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:27:55 PM EST
    because of how badly-intentioned or ignorant people will use it.

    And even more ambivalent after watching 17 months of the Obama campaigns encouraging sentiments just as disrespectful, sexist, and worse against Sen. Clinton.

    The problem here is less the picture itself than that the average person (who probably does not read the New Yorker, I don't think it has anything like the circulation of Time or Newsweek) will see it and not realize it's satire.  Maybe they should have put some sort of PC warning on the cover.

    I'm sure many objected to Swift's A Modest Proposal on the grounds that it encouraged cannibalism.

    Parent

    "the ignorant masses", (4.00 / 1) (#205)
    by Blowback on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 09:05:19 PM EST
    I agree it is satire and being a long time reader of The New Yorker, I have no problem understanding this.

    Unfortunately, I also believe that "the ignorant masses", a phrase I heard often while living on Capitol Hill in DC during he 1990's, is also true. i.e., the ignorant masses are the people who brought us W, as a drinking buddy in 2000 and I am sure they fail to even comprehend the irony of the New Yorker cover.

    Bottom line, I think this cover will inflame many of the masses to vote for the re thug candidate, McCain, come November.

    Hmmmm, I thought it was a great cover. (none / 0) (#1)
    by Shainzona on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 08:55:40 PM EST
    But then, I'm only speaking for me!

    Um, if you don't think it's satire, then I see (none / 0) (#25)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:16:35 PM EST
    racist and religious stereotypes, but sexist?  Where does that come in, just because Michelle's on the cover?

    There's a little bit of Maureen Dowd. . . (none / 0) (#30)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:18:52 PM EST
    ("I don't understand, everyone I know voted for Gore!") in the cartoonist's response.  If he doesn't understand that thousands of copies of this cartoon are going to be circulated (under the caption "What the liberals in New York really think about Obama") he's nuts.

    I think there's a little of MoDo in the Cover (5.00 / 6) (#43)
    by andgarden on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:22:49 PM EST
    Because it's trying to be funny, but it's just offensive.

    Parent
    Bingo (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:48:19 PM EST
    Amen... (none / 0) (#61)
    by kdog on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:34:54 PM EST
    if the cover of the New Yorker makes you believe the Obamas are Black Panthers you're beyond help.  No sense restricting the scope of the grown-up conversation.

    Did the New Yorker endorse (none / 0) (#71)
    by oculus on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:39:34 PM EST
    anyone in the Dem. primaries?  I'm thinking William Ayers and Bernadette Dorhn reference here.

    Parent
    The New Yorker. . . (5.00 / 0) (#73)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:41:16 PM EST
    has no editorial board in the sense that a newspaper has, and doesn't endorse politicians.  That said, a number of writers for Talk of the Town clearly tilted towards Obama.  I thought of suggesting they change their name to "The Chicagoan".

    Parent
    Ha. (none / 0) (#79)
    by oculus on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:42:11 PM EST
    BTW, have you repented yet?

    Parent
    Nope. (none / 0) (#85)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:44:39 PM EST
    Proud Bloomberg voter all the way.  A real victory for liberalism over blind party loyalty.

    Parent
    BTD, a question: (none / 0) (#95)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:50:37 PM EST
    Is saying that satire failed saying it is racist?

    Whether satire fails is up to each viewer, of course.  But then, if that viewer sees it as racist, does that make it racist -- for one and all?

    I think there must be some legal reasoning on this.    If how a viewer sees it is the measure of it, is that the peril of, say, the "reasonable woman" standard for a hostile environment?  I still grapple with how reasonable that may seem but how unreasonable it can become for a judge or jury.

    Hopefully BTD will give his take as well, (none / 0) (#136)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:36:47 PM EST
    and hopefully this isn't too OT, but here's my take on the 'reasonable person' standard in law.  I've not had much success explaining this to non-lawyers (my failure rather than theirs), so we'll see how I do here.

    TRP standard is really an entirely subjective standard that is discussed and implemented throughout the legal system as if it were an objective one.  Or maybe another way to put it is, it is subjective standard yearning to be an objective one.  We pretend it's an objective one because it's the only way it all works.

    In any one case, the 'decider' of TRP standard is the judge or the jury.  They are supposed to evaluate a case that uses TRPS not based on their own subjective feelings but on how they imagine a reasonable person would view whatever the issue is.

    In practice, this is pretty darn hard for anyone to do.  It means putting aside your own opinions and feelings and producing some sort of other person-ideal.  How do you do that?  Do you imagine some sort of average opinion of reasonableness based on the people you know?  Go by what most people would do or feel?  Pick one person you think is a pretty reasonable person all 'round and imagine how they would decide? (but then that just creates a little circle of subjectivity bending back on itself).

    Over time, common law precedent amasses and the law gets some sort of picture of the weight of a reasonable person.  That gives the legal system a standard that is at least nonrandom and predictable.  For more novel situations, the reasonable person std doesn't really exist outside the courtroom of that one case.

    And yet in the end, even though the RP is fictional and imaginary, and often sloppily defined, for many sorts of issues there is no better standard to use.  It works out in a practical way that it doesn't quite in an abstract way.

    On this cover issue, I think the best you could say, if you assume it fails as satire, is that it is either thought to be racist by the majority of people (or not if not).  But the reasonably person standard perhaps should not be applied because while workable as a legal concept it's not quite apposite as a social/political critique one.

    IMHO.

    Parent

    Thanks -- that's very thoughtful (none / 0) (#157)
    by Cream City on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:09:12 PM EST
    again, as I have come to expect from you.  And about what I have gathered, though not all in one place, about the problems -- but also the utility -- of the  "reasonable person" standard.

    But about the cover -- again, this reply seems to be equating "offensive" with "racist."  And that is happening too much in this campaign, I think, and perhaps to the detriment of calling out racism.

    Let me try again: If I'm offended by something, and it happens to have people of color in it, it does not necessarily hold that what I find offensive is racist.  I.e., it could offend me for other reasons.  But does it hold, then, that if most people find it racist, it therefore is racist?  No.  As has been pointed out, intent matters.  

    I agree, of course, that the court of public opinion operates differently from the courtroom.  But this blog is neither the public at large, following whatever CNN says is racist, nor is it a courtroom -- fortunate as we are to have so many commenters who are lawyers and thus are trained in thinking more logically than most.  

    Parent

    I agree (none / 0) (#170)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 12:06:48 AM EST
    I don't think I quite got your point the first time around.  

    BTD describe it as sexist, and I just don't see that at all.  As for racist, the closest I could come is that if the intent were a slur and not satire, it connects Obama with Muslimism and many Muslims are Arabic or African.  That's pretty weak.  In any case, the dominant slur here is painting the Obamas as terrorist and Muslim, which, as you point out, is offensive but not necessarily racist.

    Racism is the strongest knee-jerk term on the 'ism' landscape, so of course it's overused the most.  It's the most damaging to an opposing argument whther the opposing argument is legitimate or not.

    However, conflating the two -- offensive and racist -- is just intellectually sloppy, intellectually disingenuous, and diminishes true occurences of racism, all of which I'm exhausted with this year.  Whether most other folks are too I guess remains to be seen.

    Parent

    As I understand it (none / 0) (#150)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:53:30 PM EST
    Intent is supposed to be a big part of the law.


    Parent
    Depends on what's at issue. (none / 0) (#171)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 12:13:35 AM EST
    Most crimes require intent.  In general, if it's something the state can restrict your liberty for or execute you for, there's an intent element.

    For negligence law, though, intent doesn't matter.  The standard is whether you took due care to avoid harm to others or property.  For negligent acts, the penalties are civil damages, usu. money.  Basically it's saying if you caused a harm but didn't mean to, but weren't enough paying attention to avoid it, you have to make up for the harm.  Obviously many folks think of civil penalties as punishment but that's not what it really is.  (there are exceptions to all this of course).

    So if we wanted to analogize the NYer cover to the law, we may be better off taking in terms of negligence, at least in regards to the responsibility (or not) of a publication to avoid printing something which could be used badly by badly intentioned people.

    Parent

    As I parse BTD's post (none / 0) (#173)
    by Cream City on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 12:24:08 AM EST
    there was not a suggestion that this cover was sexist.  It's a sentence/paragraph construction thing.  He is, I think, saying that stereotypes are problematic in satire, no matter the sort of stereotype.

    Re the rest of your post, thanks again.  I would not want to be the lawyer trying to make that argument in this sort of case.  I have followed several others, such as the Carol Burnett-National Enquirer case that was positively pathbreaking.  But that path is still difficult and perilous to trod -- and would be political suicide for a liberal/left/whatever politician to attempt, of course.

    So the Obama camp is doing the usual dance.  Obama said he wouldn't deign to comment on it.  So the campaign staff did comment on it.  Now, as long as Obama and/or the campaign doesn't start trying to explain what it did or didn't mean, it may have handled this well -- that is, if it really wants to bring attention to the article inside the magazine.  That, I would not do.  But I can see how they could construe the article as according him what he needs -- which is a history of political experience, albeit learned through taking some serious early hits for inexperience.

    Parent

    BTD, this question is essentially moot (none / 0) (#172)
    by Cream City on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 12:14:09 AM EST
    now that I've read your comment #166.  It clarifies what you were saying -- or asking, as it were.

    Not that I have an answer to your question.  Yet.  But you can ignore mine here.

    Parent

    The article was very good (none / 0) (#127)
    by samtaylor2 on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:24:31 PM EST
    It trully did a very good job of showing the development of a political mind.  It is refreshing not to read someing pro or con, but just describe something that is imporant. I would love to read the same type of article about John McCAin or Hillary.  

    A Political Mind? (5.00 / 0) (#134)
    by MsExPat on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:35:55 PM EST
    or a Pol?

    I'd say the New Yorker piece chronicled the development of the latter.

    Obama: Throwing his friends under the bus, since 1991.

    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#144)
    by A little night musing on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:44:28 PM EST
    Actually, my first reaction after I read the aricle (and which I meant to post here, but forgot) was:

    Obama's a pol? Who'da thunk? ;)

    Parent

    Umm (none / 0) (#195)
    by samtaylor2 on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 06:53:42 AM EST
    He is a great political mind, that has translated into an amazing politician.  What is your problem with that?

    Parent
    Gotta agree with the artist here. (none / 0) (#154)
    by Radix on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:59:46 PM EST
    Sadly, for all to many Americans, this is exactly what they believe about the Obama's

    Now there is outrage about the New Yorker? (none / 0) (#175)
    by Manuel on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 12:33:04 AM EST
    There wasn't much back when Liza did the hack job on Bendixen.

    Bill Pryor? That's Richard Pryor of course.... (none / 0) (#185)
    by jerry on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 02:52:52 AM EST


    Inflammatory effect (none / 0) (#193)
    by gwfrink3 on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 06:16:25 AM EST
    Here in North Carolina, the home state of the late U.S. Sen. Jesse Helms, racism is a blunt instrument. Appeals to racism are well-understood here as inflammatory only in part because burning crosses still sometimes flower overnight on well-kept lawns. Obvious satiric intent does not alter the cartoon's inherent appeal to racism and, as a result, its inflammatory effect.

    Europeans think Americans have ... (none / 0) (#196)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 07:45:57 AM EST
    no sense of irony.  The reaction to this cartoon suggests they may be right.

    amen brother (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 08:55:30 AM EST
    Failed satire (none / 0) (#200)
    by lizpolaris on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 08:52:31 AM EST
    The clueless artist doesn't get that it isn't satire if you're targetting the wrong subject.  Blitt states that the intended target of his 'satirical' cartoon is supposed to be the fearmongering people who depict this candidate as unpatriotic.  Only one problem with that - the fearmongers aren't the object of scorn in the cartoon.  The object of scorn in the cartoon drawn is the same candidate which the fearmongers are excoriating - using their own memes!  As completely opposed to satire, what this does is drive those memes.  Thus this isn't satire at all but endorsement.  So at satire, Blitt misses his target completely.  Fail.

    The satire failed (none / 0) (#202)
    by ding7777 on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 09:35:27 AM EST
    only because people who believe Obama is (or might be) unpatriotic will not see the mockery of that absurdity.

    Parent
    Artist intention gone wrong (none / 0) (#203)
    by Rashomon66 on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 10:38:12 AM EST
    The question is what is the artists intention in creating the cover. He says it is to mock the ridiculousness of the Obama haters. But unfortunately no matter what he says his cartoon actually plays right into the hands of the Obama haters. The New Yorker has often made fun of politicians but this takes it to another level that I think some people won't get. True, most will shrug it off. But comments on right wing blogs are already showing that they not only think it is a good cover - but one that tells the truth about the Obamas. That is why the cover fails to do the job it intended.

    I don't get the Outrage (none / 0) (#204)
    by jb64 on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 10:55:04 AM EST
    I thought the cartoon was funny as hell. I can't see how this hurts Obama at all. If you are a racist, you're already not going to vote for Obama. If you're a right-wing idealouge, you're already not going to vote for Obama. Where's the harm?

    If we're going to cry wolf at every slight, clumsy statement, or innocuous cartoon about Obama, the public is going to become immune to real outrages that are in store down the line. The left's reaction (and indeed the candidate's as well) confirms every stereo-type about humorless PC type liberals.

    Also, as far as facts & the masses (none / 0) (#206)
    by Blowback on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 09:08:05 PM EST
    are concerned, we saw how well the false statements of the Swift Boaters worked against Kerrey in 2004, I think we have again the same situation here.

    Facts, we don't need no stinking facts!

    Just remember two things that Bush (none / 0) (#207)
    by Blowback on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 10:56:51 PM EST
    said, perhaps the only two true things he ever said:

    1) CATAPULT THAT PROPAGANDA

    "See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in," he said, "to kind of catapult the propaganda."

    2) "Money trumps peace." (On tonight's Late Night Letterman Show)


    BTD says... (none / 0) (#209)
    by bayville on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 12:43:13 AM EST
    "Satire involving racist, sexist and religious stereotypes just do not work and I wonder when folks might wake up to that fact. Or will they continue to yell "PC!"

    Is this written with tongue in cheek?

    If not, what are the groundrules and boundaries for satire nowadays?

    Out-of-bounds: religious nuts, bigots, chauvinists, right-wing fanatics and Democratic politicians.
    In-play: sit-coms, breakfast cereal, The Hummer and Lee Greenwood (borderline?).

    If this is the case, the so-called liberal blogosphere has become more vanilla than Kirk Cameron...who is by the way NOT FUNNY (not satire).

    I found it a classic New Yorker cartoon. (none / 0) (#210)
    by laurie on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 02:11:45 PM EST
    What I did enjoy was the "making it" bio.

    And what I'm certain is that if they cry outrage enough, Obama's on line contributions will begin to soar. Any mention of unfair racism and those dollars flow in...

    Racism?! (none / 0) (#211)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 03:56:31 PM EST
    Let us know when you get back from lunch: the racism is the least of it. That image is the kind of thing you expect to see on the cover of The Spectator or The Greater Israel Post, and resonates a little too closely with the constantly-in-circulation meme of the unhinged Right that Obama is some kind of crypto Mooslim terrorist-symp who secretly hates America and wont protect "us".

    You have to wonder why what is possibly the most famous mag in the U.S chose this particular "satirical" image (which is meant non-satirically these days in so many places), to portray on it's cover right in the middle of closely contested campaign when it's been so firmly established that most Americans generally a) dont get satire,and b) respond viscerally to images, particularly ones they have repeated exposures to.

    Just dont satirize (none / 0) (#212)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 04:00:43 PM EST
    anything about the longsuffering HRC, or as the medieval monks used to say, next you'll be laughing at God.