Brandeis v. Sullivan

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Media
Posted on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 08:06:00 AM EST
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Andrew Sullivan writes:

[T]here is no denying that our liberties have been seriously eroded by the last few years in this respect. I just understand that some loss is defensible in the war we now fight, and wire-tapping, if monitored by the Congress, a FISA court, as well as the executive is a price we may have to pay to keep our intelligence accurate [How does Sully know this?].

Louis Brandeis wrote:

Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.

(Emphasis supplied.) Brandeis was pretty smart, wasn't he?

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Brandeis v. Sullivan | 21 comments (21 topical)

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Brandeis v. Sullivan (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by pie on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 08:14:19 AM EST

Brandeis 10
Sullivan 0

Very wise.... (5.00 / 2) (#3)
by kdog on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 08:17:24 AM EST

that Brandeis...that's why we have a high school named after him.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say.

Though I'm not sold that the men of zeal in this instance don't understand exactly what they are doing.

: Both are wise... (none / 0) (#20)
by CaptainAmerica08 on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 04:45:32 PM EST

Hater.

why yes, yes he was. (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by cpinva on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 09:01:56 AM EST

Brandeis was pretty smart, wasn't he?

which is why he was a supreme court justice, with a university named for him, and andrew sullivan isn't and won't.

"patriotism and religion are the last refuges of the scoundrel."

author's name escapes me at the moment.

Dr. Samuel Johnson's first (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by wurman on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 12:25:16 PM EST

Dictionary of the English Language.


I much prefer this quote (5.00 / 2) (#18)
by Rhouse on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 04:41:05 PM EST

"In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first."
The Devil's Dictionary by Ambrose Bierce


: Time changes all things & Bierce had (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by wurman on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 03:59:01 AM EST

the benefit of knowing about 100 years of the American Experiment. Dr. Johnson could only have observed British subjects & his native land both is & was blessed with a very different order of scoundrels than found here in the colonies.

Brandeis Redux and Marshall-Part Deux on SCOTUS (none / 0) (#16)
by Ellie on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 04:18:30 PM EST

Two actual Leonine Liberals, prescient and brave, teeth and claws intact.

Chickensh!t Dems would settle for O'Connor as their "leftish centrist". Bah.

Bush stacked justice with hard conservatives. We're OWED hard Liberals -- real ones, not plushy toys in non-threatening fursona.


Proud Brandeis alum agrees (5.00 / 1) (#6)
by GOPmurderedconscience on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 10:56:42 AM EST

Mr Bell Curve is making the type of intellectual contortion some Obama worshippers have been up to lately.

The idea that we should let Bush and a Democratic Congress defecate on the constitution because some super secret gains sickens me.

Thank God for Louis D. Brandeis.

Did I say I was a Brandeis grad?

: If you haven't already enshrined your degree ... (none / 0) (#17)
by Ellie on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 04:31:54 PM EST

... in an exquisitely elegant, bold and sublimely nuanced (yet unfussily so) frame of strong metal, displayed on a revolving black velvet display under flawless crystal cabinetry, placed prominently wherever you work and play, then there's just no saluting you.
Nah, what's in your heart and brains is the best shrine.

Warhol's stunning portrait of Brandeis (5.00 / 2) (#11)
by Peter G on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 01:21:16 PM EST

This reproduction doesn't really do the original 1980 screenprint justice (the true colors are more subtle), but it will give you the idea.

: Whoa! Warhol! (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by oldpro on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 02:00:05 PM EST

Thanks a million for this link.
A friend and I were, coincidentally, just having a conversation a day or so ago about the geniuses of our adult lifetimes who, as it turned out, were mostly Jewish. As educated Irish women, we were not surprised.
Love the Warhol treatment of these great 20th century Jews. Interesting that the Brandeis and Kafka portraits were among the most direct and accessible, contrasted with Warhol's treatment of Freud.
Turns out, even in art, the medium is the message.

: Warhol hot and fresh like mama made for lunch (none / 0) (#15)
by Ellie on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 04:08:35 PM EST

The New York Times was unsparing: 'the show is vulgar, it reeks of commercialism, and its contribution to art is nil'
ahhh HAHAHAHAHAHA
:: eye wipe ::
Stop it, Mr Professional Commercial Critic, you're killing me.
Belated Buh byeeee Jesse Helms -- I mean, suck hard the dirt a@@hole.
The world may remember Mr. Helms as an egregious racist, but I hope his achievement history recognizes is being the worst sand painting evah.

I always look at the credentials (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by Prabhata on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 01:44:37 PM EST

of anyone spousing a view. Sullivan has his credentials, and Brandeis has his. Obama has his (flip flop, present voting) and Hillary has hers.

What? Sullivan has credentials? (5.00 / 1) (#14)
by oldpro on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 02:02:23 PM EST

What are they?


: Not on display but he can yank'em out of his arse (none / 0) (#19)
by Ellie on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 04:41:30 PM EST

... if required.
(The above discussion threadlet owes me a new monitor and keyboard.)
As for Sullivan's filing system, well, I won't go there. Seriously.

Stupid Sullivan (none / 0) (#1)
by This from a broad on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 08:08:51 AM EST

There is nothing that Obama could do that Andrew Sullivan (who is not an American citizen and cannot vote) would criticize him for. Unless Obama chooses Hillary as V.P.

: Huh? (none / 0) (#8)
by squeaky on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 11:49:52 AM EST

SULLIVAN: Well, I just think as a candidate, he's so fresher than Hillary, that she harkens back to the '90s. I think she's been a very sensible senator. I think, in fact, it's hard to disagree with her on the war. But when I see her again, all my -- all the cootie vibes --
[laughter]
SULLIVAN: -- sort of resurrect themselves.
FINEMAN: That's a technical term, by the way.
SULLIVAN: I just -- I'm sorry I must --
FINEMAN: We in politics --
SULLIVAN: -- represent a lot of people. I actually find her positions appealing in many ways. I just can't stand her. I'm sorry about that.
Media Matters

: OOPs! (none / 0) (#9)
by squeaky on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 11:51:48 AM EST

I read your comment in reverse... Obviously you are right on the money!

Andrew Sullivan is (none / 0) (#5)
by frankly0 on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 10:43:22 AM EST

such a brainless man.

Look, it's certainly true that our "intelligence" stands some chance of being improved if gut the requirements of FISA, and allow basically unmonitored surveillance of all kinds of communications.

But our intelligence will likewise be improved if we get rid of any constraints on unreasonable search, if we allow every piece of mail to be opened, and if we put up video surveillance cameras in every home.

What a free and brave people insist upon, however, is that they have an inherent right to privacy, and that fighting terrorists or criminals or foreign agents can't abrogate that right.

This is the part that never gets into the simplistic, stupid equations of the living dead like Sullivan.

He is one among those many cowards who will never even have a scent of an inkling about the message of the aphorism "Live Free or Die".

Their lives are predicated on a fundamental cravenness that renders impossible any comprehension of the motivations of our Founding Fathers, of those who fought in the Civil War, or of those who fought in WWII. They are a species apart -- but they are paid to write for The Atlantic.

Well, Sullivan is a Republican after all (none / 0) (#7)
by DandyTIger on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 11:12:16 AM EST

(or was until recently), so I'm not that surprised by his Republican attitudes and ideas. Comparing him to anyone like Brandeis is kind of like shooting fish in a barrel. :-)