home

Clinton Dems: Will Obama Fight For Them? Part 2

On Wednesday, Roger Simon of Politico:

. . . Obama is not, one of his senior advisers assured me Tuesday night, going to spend a lot of time in the next few months wooing Clinton supporters whose feelings may be hurting.

I wrote in response "So it turns out the Obama campaign has some not too smart people on his campaign too. Expect a swift rebuke from Axelrod over this."

More . . .

Today's reporting:

In conversations with Mr. Obama and his aides, “I’ve tried to make sure that everyone understood that these women have a right to feel frustrated and angry,” said Senator Claire McCaskill of Missouri, an important ally who is one of his leading emissaries to women. “To try to make that less than real is a huge mistake.”

(Emphasis supplied.) Hmmm. You think maybe Axelrod gave some folks a rebuke? Or did he get the rebuke?

By Big Tent Democrat

< Now They Notice | Saturday Morning Open Thread >
  • Premium Ads

  • Blog Ads

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

    donate to TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Claire McCaskill is the wrong emissary... (5.00 / 13) (#2)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:12:42 AM EST
    ...only slightly better than Donna Brazile. I will never forget how she let herself be used as the excuse of Obamm and Teddy snubbing Hillary at the State of the Union address. Hasn't he got anybody else on his campaign with credibility on this?

    I'm not sure there is (5.00 / 18) (#11)
    by Democratic Cat on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:28:54 AM EST
    I can't think of anyone on his campaign that has credibility on this. Dean doesn't either. This is the "Honey, I really love you, I won't do it again" phase of the abuse. I'm not feeling very forgiving.

    [ Parent ]
    You forget the (5.00 / 8) (#112)
    by frankly0 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:48:43 AM EST
    part we keep hearing too: "We've got to stay together for the kids, you know? We're a family. We've got responsibilities!"

    [ Parent ]
    right on could not be a worse choice (5.00 / 9) (#14)
    by Katherine Graham Cracker on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:30:17 AM EST
    McCaskill has been one of the worse Clinton bashers.  She started in 2004 saying it would be bad for Democrats if Senator Clinton won.
    Obama helped her out in the urban area of Mo and she won and for her to pretend otherwise is a lie

    Not too mention she has crappy stands on immigration and FISA  I find her character wanting and in her career she has not been helpful to other women at all.  She is a horrible terrible person and a liar.


    [ Parent ]

    If Claire is Obama's leading emissaries to (5.00 / 16) (#26)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:45:15 AM EST
    women, you might as well start practicing saying President McCain. She is not only crappy on FISA and immigration. She has voted in support of Bush on Iraq as well. She is extremely proud of how much the Republicans in D.C. like her. Why wouldn't they like her. She votes with them at least half the time.

    The thought of seeing McCaskill practicing her adoring Republican wife look every time she is around Obama is enough to make me ill.

    [ Parent ]

    Claire and Barack (5.00 / 9) (#30)
    by Athena on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:48:51 AM EST
    Why do I see a 21st century Pat Nixon?

    [ Parent ]
    Perfect. n/t (none / 0) (#55)
    by Cal on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:17:35 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Progressive? (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by mmc9431 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:06:04 AM EST
    If they are the picture of the new progressive Democratic party, I'm proud to be a liberal. He votes the Patriot Act and she backs telecom immunity. What a team.

    [ Parent ]
    She received over $14,000 from Obama for her (5.00 / 4) (#31)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:48:57 AM EST
    senatorial campaign! I remember Senator Hutchison from Texas, a rep, telling in an interview that there is a code or agreement between the female senators that they would not campaign against another female senator.

    [ Parent ]
    You are correct about the pledge (5.00 / 5) (#74)
    by zfran on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:42:43 AM EST
    by the women in the Senate, however, it probably doesn't apply to running for president, nor probably does it apply to Hillary!!

    [ Parent ]
    You are implying loyalty (5.00 / 6) (#76)
    by txpolitico67 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:46:40 AM EST
    and that goes out with the dishwater when it comes to the Clintons.  

    Claire McCaskill will probably be a one-term senator when the GOP taints her association with Obama when he loses on a colossal scale this fall.

    Karma will be sweet.

    [ Parent ]

    That's not the kind of feminism I want (none / 0) (#131)
    by mbuchel on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:29:50 AM EST
    If women are going to be viewed as equals in the arena, then this sort of thing (women not campaigning against women no matter what, for perpetuity) certainly doesn't help.
    Does this mean that AAs shouldn't campaign against other AAs too?
    All I'm saying is that we've made a lot of progress - not enough - but to criticize women for voting for Obama instead of HRC just because she's a woman is not progress for women.

    [ Parent ]
    Someone may have been listening (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Lahdee on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:13:56 AM EST
    Hopefully Claire and others are making inroads or we won't be getting our invites to those inaugural balls.

    At work I was approached by a gentleman, an Obama supporter, who wanted to understand why his spouse, a HRC supporter, was so upset with him. Now, it's not like we hadn't been talking throughout the primaries, but he honestly didn't know what to do. "But, we're upset too," he said. "There were some nasty things tossed at BO." "But, you won," I said. We went round and round on that until we broke through with a discussion of respect. Okay, I threw up the pony, but after a time he began to see the light.

    It's as though some Obama-supporters (5.00 / 16) (#7)
    by kempis on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:23:48 AM EST
    aren't content that their guy "won." They also want us to affirm that he was the best candidate all along. That's an unrealistic expectation, to say the least. And it's not helpful--to say the least.

    [ Parent ]
    I remember (5.00 / 15) (#13)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:29:06 AM EST
    atrios talking about the Bush supporters extreme anger after the 2004 election calling it the "anger of the enfranchised". The Obama supporters seem to be the same way

    [ Parent ]
    Basic human dignity (5.00 / 14) (#20)
    by songster on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:36:55 AM EST
    I've been struggling to understand why my feelings are so violently opposed to my rational choice to vote for Obama.  

    It's amazing what a person will sacrifice to maintain their human dignity. Be warned, Obama supporters.

    Perhaps that's "what's the matter with Kansas," too.


    [ Parent ]

    Indeed (5.00 / 14) (#22)
    by Athena on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:39:58 AM EST
    Bingo.  A nomination secured with disrespect will backfire.

    All the bitters and the sweeties out there will now have their turn.

    [ Parent ]

    Just the thought that he might crash the Hillary (5.00 / 10) (#38)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:00:20 AM EST
    event today and have her force him on us so soon, will stop me for watching it live. I will come back here after it's over! I'm physically sick when I see or listen to him as I was with Bush. I have to tape everything in order to be able to fast forwad otherwise I have to turn the TV off. I cannot believe that I will not be able to watch or listen to my president for another 4 yrs.

    [ Parent ]
    If HRC invites (none / 0) (#71)
    by IndiDemGirl on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:38:56 AM EST
    him to her event.  If she wants him there, then he wouldn't be "crashing" the event.  

    [ Parent ]
    Ha, that's exactly the argument I had... (5.00 / 9) (#15)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:30:45 AM EST
    ...with my daughter yesterday. I had to flat out tell her that the fact that Hillary is out of the race doesn't mean that I automatically fall in love with Obama. She said finally, well maybe you'll like him more eventually. I said, yeah maybe.

    [ Parent ]
    yup, let him earn it. the hard way. (none / 0) (#143)
    by hellothere on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:58:55 AM EST
    let him get out there and campaign his heart out in the rural areas, with workers, etc. if he thinks that having michelle run around and tell us about negative bull and despair along with complaining about her bills will get him the presidency, then he and his campaign should hang it up now. i am also not talking about events where people actually come to hear the rock group either. that won't win an election.

    [ Parent ]
    Definitely an unrealistic expectation... (5.00 / 14) (#33)
    by Shainzona on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:51:22 AM EST
    ...because Obama has never been the "best candidate".  Still isn't.  Never will be (imho).

    And you're right - they want us to fall at his knees  begging forgiveness for our ways and then tell him how wonderful he is.

    Not.  Going.  To.  Happen.

    [ Parent ]

    Maybe its because..... (5.00 / 8) (#36)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:53:18 AM EST
    ...we are the mommies. We have to validate their choices....because we always have before.

    [ Parent ]
    It's more than that.... (5.00 / 7) (#155)
    by NWHiker on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:22:17 AM EST
    It's not that they aren't content that their guy one, I think, it's that they know it wasn't a real win. He never really beat her, he got it close enough so the DNC and party elders could finish it for him.

    It's like Rs who are still Gore-bashing. Because they know their guy was elected 5-4.

    I don't follow boxing, so I"m not sure of the proper terms, but Obama never got a knock-out, he got a victory on points, given by a corrupt ref, when his opponent had actually done better and he was barely standing at the end while his opponent was hopping around the ring. They know this. It grates.

    [ Parent ]

    my feelings exactly. (none / 0) (#167)
    by jeffhas on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:07:00 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    misdirection.... (5.00 / 27) (#21)
    by p lukasiak on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:38:46 AM EST
    Why the sudden emphasis on sexism?

    I think its all about misdirection.... because the reason that Obama is the "presumptive nominee" has nothing to do with sexism.  It has to do with the corruption of the DNC.

    While 'sexism' doubtless played a role in the size of Clinton v Obama margins, the simple fact is that CLinton was winning in all the important states despite the prevalence of sexism.  

    Clinton "transcended" gender to a very large extent when it came to the voting booth -- Obama is the nominee because despite the overwhelming evidence that Clinton was the stronger candidate for November, and far better prepard to take on the repsonsibilities of President, super-delegates continued to flock to Obama.

    Obama had TWO GOOD WEEKS in mid-February  That was it.  By every rational criteria, after that Clinton demonstrated that she was the superior candidate.  After Texas and Ohio, the flow of superdelegates doward Obama should have stopped...and after Pennsylvania it should have reversed itself --- IF the superdelegates were looking out for the interests of the country and the party.

    But the more Obama lost, the more SDs he got.   Only complete corruption of the process can explain why Obama build a lead among SDs while losing consistently from March through May.

    [ Parent ]

    I think that Obama is very well aware of... (5.00 / 7) (#23)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:41:58 AM EST
    ...his media darling status. It was there that sexism played to his advantage. It's kind of like St. Augustine's youthful prayer, "Oh lord make me chaste, but not yet."

    [ Parent ]
    Speaking of.... (5.00 / 8) (#49)
    by kempis on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:09:54 AM EST
    Have y'all seen the video of Obama telling the crowd in Chicago this week that at the end of 2016 he'll be nearing the end of his second term and riding in a ticker-tape parade with assorted Illinois pols celebrating the Olympics' coming to Chicago?

    And they say Hillary is delusional?

    [ Parent ]

    Link?? Please???? n/t (none / 0) (#137)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:45:14 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    ah, but that Media Darling status (5.00 / 4) (#58)
    by ccpup on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:19:36 AM EST
    isn't as strongly entrenched as he believes.

    In all Elections, the Republican candidate gets a basic pass from the Press on any lies, any embarrassments from the past, etc. while the Democrat in the race endures a steady drip, drip, drip of revelations and negative spin and a bright as can be highlighting of any gaffes.

    Obama is a veritable gaffe-machine waiting to happen and his past certainly offers up more than enough copy to last us at least through Election Day and probably beyond.

    Barack has a tough road ahead and, as we could see from Hillary's consistent wins despite his "favored" status and the constant cries for her to give it up, I don't think any Press hand-outs (via MSNBC) are going to be enough to surmount the strong feeling people will have that Obama just isn't ready and, besides, there's just something about him they really don't like.

    [ Parent ]

    n/t (5.00 / 10) (#28)
    by Athena on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:47:03 AM EST
    nothing to do with sexism

    Wrong.  There is a multi-layered explanation for how Obama got the nomination, but the sexist climate of the campaign is fairly objectively noted by many.  No one has said - I haven't - that it's the only factor worth noting - but this a common response by the pundits and Obama supporters is to say that Hillary's supporters are mono-dimensional in their analysis.  Wrong.

    Why has it risen as one of the top factors in the post-mortem?  Because it mirrors the actual experience of many of us.

    [ Parent ]

    They are also very uncomfortable (5.00 / 8) (#39)
    by BeBe on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:00:38 AM EST
    when social class, regionalism, and race is mentioned. They have chosen sexism as the "ism" that is allowed to be discussed apparently and gave the press their marching orders. But it is leaving out other groups they went after and those people are going to want a discussion by Obama also. This simply more target marketing.

    [ Parent ]
    I would love to know if they were the majority of (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:04:17 AM EST
    the people to whom he had contributed to their campaigns through his PAC? Would explain a lot. Does anyone know how to find out who were the SD who first endorse Clinton and then switched to Obama before the primaries ended?

    [ Parent ]
    it's common knowledge (5.00 / 6) (#62)
    by ccpup on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:23:48 AM EST
    that Obama was a huge ATM machine for many SDs who through their support to him.

    For them, filling their coffers for their re-election efforts was more important than getting a Dem in the White House.  That's the only way I can excuse away such willful ignorance of Electoral Vote fact.

    [ Parent ]

    oh man (none / 0) (#63)
    by ccpup on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:24:19 AM EST
    need more coffee:

    it's "threw" and not "through"

    Ugh.

    [ Parent ]

    yup and the so called dem elders (none / 0) (#144)
    by hellothere on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:02:37 AM EST
    were all concerned about their power base. we are actually relying on these people to right what's wrong with america? good luck with that! i say let's take this grass roots group and join together to continue to kick their tushes from now on. let them come to dislike us as much as we dislike what they have done. see ya at the polls. w

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe there was something (5.00 / 8) (#43)
    by brodie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:05:00 AM EST
    corrupt in the process, but I suspect more SDs were worried about the highly emotional onslaught against them should they deny the frontrunner and first AA candidate the nomination -- especially in favor of an opponent and her spouse who were being slandered in the media and by the O camp as ruthless race baiters.

    I think too wrt "transcending" that, given the nature of our society, minority BHO was in the position where he had to do some transcending as to his race.  As for my female majority candidate, I wish she'd hammered home a little more the historic nature of her candidacy.   And she missed out therefore in creating a good deal more excitement for her candidacy, not to mention more appeal to the youth.

    [ Parent ]

    Loose Change (5.00 / 5) (#46)
    by Athena on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:07:48 AM EST
    I agree - how can the first female President not be a "change?"  Give me a break.

    [ Parent ]
    that's exactly right - they are so used of (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:30:07 AM EST
    taking our votes for granted they never thought that the "little women" would revolt - in their twisted little minds they wrongly assumed that we would come home to roost because of Roe vs Wade.
    !

    [ Parent ]
    yup george will was saying the women will (none / 0) (#164)
    by hellothere on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:39:50 AM EST
    come back to the democratic party. not in my house!

    [ Parent ]
    hellothere (none / 0) (#174)
    by suki on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:07:26 PM EST
    Just wanted you to know the comment about thread spamming wasn't directed at you. The comment it was directed at was deleted. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

    [ Parent ]
    What's Incredible About This (none / 0) (#132)
    by creeper on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:34:20 AM EST
    is that the superdelegates exist solely to prevent the kind of disaster we are experiencing right now.

    Barring a sudden return to rational thought by the ones who sold out their party in return for campaign money, this nomination is a done deal...bought and paid for by the people who had more dollars than sense in this primary.  

    [ Parent ]

    so you are saying they found it easer to just (none / 0) (#145)
    by hellothere on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:04:30 AM EST
    give in to the hoopla and spin because they were basically chicken and didn't want to listen to threats or cajoling about race or and clinton hate? and having money thrown their way made it easer to salve their conscience? hmm, that's what i thought too.

    [ Parent ]
    This is so true (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by honora on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:16:54 AM EST
    I hope that at some point someone writes the definitive book on the DNC during this election.  I just do not get why they carried Obama through the entire process.

    [ Parent ]
    You're right about the corruption (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by RalphB on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:14:25 AM EST
    and anyone who votes for Obama will be validating that corruption.  The only way to reform the process and root it out is if Obama and the DNC sustains a massive loss in November.

    [ Parent ]
    I've always (none / 0) (#158)
    by PlayInPeoria on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:26:46 AM EST
    thought that their is more than one way to approach a problem.

    How about the Dem Party Base letting the DNC know the outright mistake they made in the MI & FL ruling.

    How about making sure the DEM Party gives Hillary the opportunity to find a place that she can serve her DEM Party loyals.

    She does not have to be Pres to have power in the DEM Party.

    Right now Hillary has them against the ropes...they just messed with the wrong women....and I'm going to follow her lead so she can keep the pressure on the Dem Party. And the Dem Party is going to know that they now have to kiss her bu$$ to keep me in!!

    [ Parent ]

    Reply.... (5.00 / 22) (#24)
    by p lukasiak on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:44:23 AM EST
    The difference is that everytime something "nasty" was thrown at Obama, the entire universe exploded in indignation -- and would explode in indignation based on imaginary nasty things being thrown at Obama.

    But all the crap that was rained down on Clinton was met with approval.  That crap was very real, and very consistently coming from the Obama campaign itself.

    [ Parent ]

    Very Deliberate (5.00 / 8) (#34)
    by Athena on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:51:52 AM EST
    That's why I describe it as a campaign tactic.  Derision will get you to June, but explode in November.

    [ Parent ]
    Rephrased (5.00 / 11) (#8)
    by Athena on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:26:20 AM EST
    I'll turn the question around:  Will they fight for Obama?  

    In these last few days of the wake, I'm only sensing more anger out there, not less.

    The sheer cynicism of dismissal followed by courting is not lost on many Hillary supporters.  We have not just lost a nomination, but endured a hostile primary season where denigration was celebrated.  I can't predict what will happen, but in all of my travels - work, family - I'm seldom meeting any Democrat who's voting for Obama.

    "More Anger" (5.00 / 3) (#125)
    by creeper on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:18:23 AM EST
    I'm not sure about the "more" part.  I'm no madder than I've been for months.

    But my feelings have hardened considerably.  The passion has been replaced by a cold emptiness.  The party I joined four years ago (for the purpose of caucusing for Howard Dean, no less) has revealed itself to be as bad as the Republican party.  Worse, maybe, since Republicans are usually upfront about screwing you.  Dems do it behind closed doors.

    This is just like the end of a love affair that went on longer than it had any business doing.  You can blind yourself to your lover's shortcomings for only so long.  When you can no longer do that, you turn and walk away.  

    [ Parent ]

    I once heard my mother explain to an ex-boyfriend (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:46:07 AM EST
    of mine why I refused to continue to see him: "there's no deader love than a dead love" - that's the way I presently feel about the democratic party.

    It's a lonely world being a democrat in Texas. My argument had always been that we believed in counting all the votes. I've now lost that superiority thanks to the actions of my party. It has shown itself just as corrupt as the rep

    [ Parent ]

    here in SF (none / 0) (#170)
    by boredmpa on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 03:38:22 PM EST
    it's probama all the time.  and it's problematic when a psuedof@g like myself has to explain to a bunch o lesbian friends why obama's campaign was sexist and anti-democratic.  i feel like my otherwise intelligent feminist friends were kidnapped by space aliens.

    i guess we all have our blind spots, but my most recent experience was particularly disturbing because it was after a umm musical that highlighted coalition politics. sigh.

    [ Parent ]

    BTD (5.00 / 10) (#9)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:26:40 AM EST
    this isn't a rebuke. It's desperately flailing around. It's trying to have it both ways. McCaskill is absolutely the WRONG person to use for this.

    having an offender tell me what is and (none / 0) (#147)
    by hellothere on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:08:59 AM EST
    isn't offensive and then giving me permission is well offensive. and women are sexist also. sometimes they are the worst. some of these chickens are marching to their karma trucks for the long drive to november, claire!

    [ Parent ]
    Notice the language.... (5.00 / 19) (#10)
    by p lukasiak on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:27:35 AM EST
    Its never that "women have a reason to be frustrated and angry", but that they have a "right" to be frustrated and angry.

    While I'm not a woman, this "right to be" language is the equivalent of an "I'm sorry that you were offended", faux-apology -- its a failure to acknowledge that the anger is legitimate, and that its not just the media that is at fault, but the candidate and the party itself.

    Analysis (5.00 / 20) (#18)
    by Athena on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:33:50 AM EST
    How subtle - there is a little permission slip buried in Claire's words.  That's a mistake.

    This is a national teach-in on women's anger - whether women will own it, firstly, and then whether the anger becomes political energy and moves us forward.

    This is not just about Hillary - Hillary's treatment exposed how all women are treated.  That's why the resonance is so strong.

    Watch out for the classic tools of delegitimation: analysis becomes whining, anger becomes bitterness, dissent becomes divisiveness.

    But it's all about dissecting the psychological state of the objects of the sexism - those who hurled the mud are defined as the norm.

    [ Parent ]

    Yes! (5.00 / 13) (#57)
    by nfstltx on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:18:09 AM EST
    The anger that men and women feel about the blatant sexism sanctioned by Sen Obama, his campaign, the media is legitimate.  I for one do not want to be healed - as if a process will somehow make it all ok - I want to see concrete real efforts, not just nice words, to make it unacceptable to play this sexism card ever again.  I don't know what those efforts would be but I am reasonably sure they have to start with an acknowledgment of culpability by those who played as opposed to psycho-babble about stages of grief.

    [ Parent ]
    The phrase used above (5.00 / 5) (#82)
    by zfran on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:53:09 AM EST
    "make sure that everyone understood that these women" is quite insulting. The terms "these women" as tho' we were something other than a part of society. Being sensitive, perhaps, but I do not forget, I forgive, but I do not forget!

    [ Parent ]
    What about men? (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by catfish on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:45:41 AM EST
    Lanny Davis friends of mine who were very committed to her campaign.

    It is normal when your candidate loses to take at least a day or two to adjust. Heck we phone banked for her until 8:00pm Tuesday night. And everybody's whining she wan't sufficiently conciliatory.

    [ Parent ]

    those women, sounds like a close first cousin (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by hellothere on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:10:54 AM EST
    to typical white person and bitters to me. "those women" hmm i bet that term was used in an not so nice way by the some of the obama supporters. hehehe

    [ Parent ]
    Indeed (5.00 / 7) (#93)
    by The Maven on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:04:26 AM EST
    The first thing that jumped out at me from Sen. McCaskill's remarks was her presumption that the frustration and anger is somehow limited to "these women".  Message for the Obama campaign:  there were more than a few Democratic men who weren't backing your candidate in the nomination battle, either, and we need to be given a better reason to vote for Obama than "He's better than McCain".

    It was in large part the condescension and patronizing attitude coming from the Obama camp that turned a lot of voters off to Obama in the first place, and they need to be won back over without any presumption that they will all fall in line.  Most will, but that may not be enough to win in November.

    [ Parent ]

    Hear! Hear! (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Calvados on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:42:54 AM EST
    What was said was like an "I'm sorry it upset you" non-apology.

    Even an acknowledgement that there was a wrong, while better, does nothing either to fight for the Clinton (former-)Dems or to woo them back into support of the party's nominee.

    A better approach might be something like this:

    "We are disgusted by the sexism and other shenanigans that have occurred in this campaign, and we are ashamed that this campaign has helped to perpetuate it.  This behavior is going to stop right now.  Here's how: [Insert appropriate changes that we can believe in.]

    We believe our candidate is qualified.  We know we'll need to work to convince you of that.  While we have benefitted from some of these wrongs, we don't see a way to undo what has been done.  We do, however, intend to work to make it up by [insert appropriate uniter-not-divider-type actions here]."

    I don't see it happening, but while apologies may bring closure to some offenses, without something to help bridge the schism, they are just words.

    [ Parent ]

    Words (none / 0) (#139)
    by creeper on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:48:38 AM EST
    are Barack Obama's sole stock in trade.

    [ Parent ]
    How hard he fights for the Clinton Dems (5.00 / 12) (#12)
    by kempis on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:29:06 AM EST
    determines how I'll perceive not just Obama but my former party. I left because I became convinced that working-class Dems were being too "unattractive" for the party as it rebrands.

    I'm waiting to see if I was right. If I was wrong, I'll feel better....But honestly, this nomination has made me question how much the Democratic party has really fought to represent the interests of the working class in this country in recent years. I can't shake the  feeling that I was snookered for 32 years....But I hope I was wrong and I'm just looking at things through a (justifiably) angry lens right now.

    Slick (5.00 / 5) (#40)
    by Athena on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:03:20 AM EST
    "Rebrands."  That could not be more accurate and more devastating.

    Working class?  Women?  Seniors?  That's so retro and 20th century.

    In the new CC-owned Democratic party, these groups have just been outsourced.

    [ Parent ]

    you were NOT snookered (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by txpolitico67 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:48:48 AM EST
    between 1993 and 2000, hence your support for Hillary.

    [ Parent ]
    point taken :-) n/t (none / 0) (#115)
    by kempis on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:51:40 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    well at least we have been snookered (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by hellothere on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:13:02 AM EST
    since 06 with "impeachment is off the table/i have spoken" pelosi.

    [ Parent ]
    Would that explain his non-campaigning in the (4.70 / 10) (#37)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:53:41 AM EST
    Appalachian states? If I were these people, I'd be mad as hell - everyone knows how much money he spent elsewhere so no wonder they came out in force for Hillary. Nobody accepts lightly to being slighted - most people want to feel that you are just as important as the next guy and in this instance the next state!

    [ Parent ]
    McGaskill... (5.00 / 11) (#25)
    by Cal on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:45:08 AM EST
    ...,the self-serving perma-grin wimp, can bite me.  Traitor.  She's old enough to know better.

    "There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women."  Madeline Albright

    No, But Every Woman Should Have Denounced (5.00 / 23) (#47)
    by Blue Jean on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:07:59 AM EST
    the rampant sexism aimed at Senator Clinton, whether they supported her or not, as should every man who cares about equality.

    I've lost almost all respect for Dr. Dean this season, as well as McCaskill, Brazille, etc.  They should have been at the forefront of the Dem party, saying "There are good reasons to oppose Senator Clinton, without the insults, the taunts, etc. that hurt all women, not just Sen. Clinton."  Instead, they were oblivious to it, when they weren't actually cheering it on.

    Now that they've got what they've wanted, (and they've started to realize that they could actually lose this thing without the Clintons and the Clinton voters), suddenly they're aware that they may have crossed the line with millions of women.  It's a bit like watching Larry Talbot change from Wolfman to human again and saying "Wah...?  Did I really kill all those people?  But I didn't mean to!"

    Yes, Dr. Dean, Senator McCaskill, etc, I know you didn't "mean to" come off sounding like a bunch of sexist jerks shouting "Burn the witch!" but that's exactly how y'all sounded.  Good luck with unringing that bell, folks.

    [ Parent ]

    Stood idley by + looked away till the wildfire (5.00 / 9) (#56)
    by Ellie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:17:54 AM EST
    Brazile and McCaskill brought early gasoline, too, for the media to throw on the bonfires under the effigies.

    [ Parent ]
    Come one... (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Cal on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:15:42 AM EST
    ...are you really that clueless?

    [ Parent ]
    Can't today's Turfing Points Memo trolls do better (5.00 / 10) (#61)
    by Ellie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:23:01 AM EST
    OMFG, they still don't get that Sen Clinton's 18 million supporters cut across every category.

    Perhaps you should be trolling -- I mean polling -- the 90% of African American voters who support Senator Obama and ask if they're voting because of race.

    Frankly, you insult the diversity of Sen Clinton's supporters, and you demean other groups that experience racism and other forms of bigotry and whose plight has been rendered invisible by media to make this All About Obama.

    [ Parent ]

    NO, and again, Hillary's supporters (5.00 / 5) (#85)
    by zfran on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:55:12 AM EST
    are men and women. Most of us support the candidate who we deem most qualified. That Sen. Obama used and allowed to be used sexist insulting and vile sexist remarks is appalling and very immature, and before you use the "racist" term back, please note, we have been there...that part of the campaign was highly discussed and not dismissed as the sexism was.

    [ Parent ]
    I Would Submit To You (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by creeper on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:53:59 AM EST
    that what racism there was in this campaign worked FOR Senator Obama, not against him.

    People are so conditioned to fear being called racist that they will do anything to demonstrate that they're not...including voting for an inferior candidate who happens to be black.

    [ Parent ]

    actually HECK YES SHE DARN SURE IS! (5.00 / 2) (#152)
    by hellothere on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:16:04 AM EST
    she is supposed to support her in that she stands up when hillary as a woman is attacked in the vile, demeaning way she was. darn straight i expect it. she can campaign for henry her cat for all i care, but if she can't call sexism when it's there in front of her, she has no right to represent any american woman or man.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, Every WOMEN (5.00 / 3) (#160)
    by PlayInPeoria on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:30:12 AM EST
    should support Hillary because she is a women.

    That does not mean they have to support her for the DEM Party nominee.... but they should stand against they way she has been treated.

    [ Parent ]

    McCaskill (none / 0) (#27)
    by Cal on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:45:34 AM EST
    Sorry, typo.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh, stick with McGaskill. (5.00 / 6) (#68)
    by Radical Faith on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:34:45 AM EST
    I think it suits her.

    [ Parent ]
    lol n/t (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Cal on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:35:36 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    This is worse and patronizing. (5.00 / 7) (#44)
    by masslib on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:05:26 AM EST
    This is not respecting the Hillary Clinton Democrats.

    Take it out on McCain (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by 1jane on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:14:11 AM EST
    Clinton's candidacy is appreciated because she represented the holy grail and the noble effort it took for her and her supporters. This isn't an argument over sexism being worse than racism. Clinton lost because her opponent ran a better organized and smarter campaign, Obama didn't make up the rules.I admire Hillary Clinton but her campaign was filled with tactical errors. She has made it seem normal for a woman to run for president and for our daughters it is the greatest gift of all.  

    Tactical errors like winning (5.00 / 15) (#54)
    by masslib on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:17:18 AM EST
    the big electorals, the big swing states and the swing groups?  What happen to Obama's campaign?  He lost each of the last four consecutive months of the campaign.  He only won 40% of the final 15 contests.  

    [ Parent ]
    And, he couldn't beat her with (5.00 / 6) (#99)
    by zfran on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:21:44 AM EST
    the pledged delegates. That's how strong she is. It took the SD's. I wonder what the Obama bloggers would say had the SD's switched or flat out voted for Clinton and put her over the top. That's how close it was.

    [ Parent ]
    Some of us are unwilling to wait until our (5.00 / 6) (#59)
    by honora on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:20:14 AM EST
    daughters, or maybe granddaughters, can enjoy a female president.  

    [ Parent ]
    The Rulz? (5.00 / 15) (#60)
    by Katherine Graham Cracker on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:22:21 AM EST
    Meanwhile, Obama supporters need to recognize that their candidate is the victor not because he put together a majority coalition, but because he out-maneuvered Clinton. This was a highly intelligent strategy, but it was not a grand feat of majority building. Obama supporters need to recognize that their candidate won not because "the people had their say," but because his campaign out-smarted her campaign. Accordingly, they need to respect the candidate whom they could not beat in a straight-up fight for votes from realclearpolitics

    [ Parent ]
    or, as Pat Buchanan (5.00 / 13) (#65)
    by ccpup on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:28:03 AM EST
    recently said -- and I can't believe I agree with him --, "Hillary is the Nominee of the People" and then he went on to say that Barack was basically the Nominee of the Party Elites who don't like Clinton.

    I don't know about you, but most elections are won by the Nominee of the People, right?  

    [ Parent ]

    I used to think so. (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by suki on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:36:04 AM EST
    Obviously I was very naive.

    [ Parent ]
    It was a tie (none / 0) (#92)
    by Newt on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:03:22 AM EST
    and Pat Buchanan is just trying to extend the animosity between Democrats.

     

    [ Parent ]

    Get used (5.00 / 5) (#100)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:27:43 AM EST
    to it. All of Michelle and Barack's clueless statements are going to be played in an endless loop for the next 5 months.

    [ Parent ]
    It was never really a tie ... (5.00 / 6) (#103)
    by Inky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:34:01 AM EST
    Among registered Democrats, Hillary was always ahead. And any legitimate advantage that Obama once held over independents and disgruntled GOPers (as opposed to GOPers who were gaming the system to elect the weakest Democrat) evaporated after Wright, Bittergate, and other gaffes and past associations were aired. For the final three months of the election, Hillary trounced Obama -- even though he was able to win a few contests where the AA population among registered Democrats was too large to be denied. And of course, she managed this even though she was outspent 2-1, 3-1, and sometimes even 4-1.

    Apparently, the DNC, in its infinite wisdom, decided to side with the candidate who had the edge in fund-raising ability, even as the primary process was demonstrating that money can't win elections when the voters aren't buying what you have to sell.

    [ Parent ]

    Also, the Repubs didn't want to (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by zfran on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:36:33 AM EST
    run against Hillary, think they can beat Obama so imagine if they had both to beat. I think teaming up (I didn't think this at first, but I do now) will win it. Otherwise, no top of the ticket voting for me.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama 'won' because he was carried (5.00 / 10) (#72)
    by honora on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:39:57 AM EST
    by the DNC and because Florida and Michigan were disenfranchised.  Good luck in November.

    [ Parent ]
    let's not forget the complicity of MSNBC & CNN (5.00 / 5) (#110)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:47:19 AM EST
    and being outspent 3 + to 1 and she still pulled off winning the majority of the popular vote! She's extraordinary really!

    The Texas caucuses were a joke - it was anything goes when it came to Obama's supporters - no ID, come right in, no proof of voting, step this way and intimidation galore. I was a driver for 5 elderly neighbors and they were screamed at and told the only reason they were not voting for Obama was because they didn't want a black man as president. They got so close to them that they were scared they were going to be pushed to the ground so asked me to take them home resulting in 6 less Hillary voters caucusing for her.

    These are also going to be 6 less votes for Obama in November.

    [ Parent ]

    SOMEONE needs (5.00 / 7) (#81)
    by txpolitico67 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:53:08 AM EST
    to ask Obama, "Since you won in places like Idaho, Utah and Wyoming, how much time and money do you intend to spend there?"

    Those little red state caucuses do NOT equate to electoral victories.  NOT pissing off more than half the base (see: WOMEN) and winning PRIMARIES in swing states do make a difference.  A BIG one!

    [ Parent ]

    A better-run campaign? (5.00 / 9) (#89)
    by chattedort on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:57:54 AM EST
    There is no effective campaign strategy that can overcome a biased, hateful media and a ruthless opponent willing to use the enemy's lies against you, knowing that the biased, hateful media will not expose the lies.

    [ Parent ]
    You admire Clinton? (5.00 / 4) (#133)
    by waldenpond on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:35:19 AM EST
    Since when?

    [ Parent ]
    oh please don't be so condescending! (none / 0) (#153)
    by hellothere on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:18:21 AM EST
    hillary was demeaned, insulted, deviled and put down in ways i find disgusting. so the after fact she was historical doesn't impress me while the ones who did it march on under false flags. we know the difference. this isn't behind us; it is in front of us.

    [ Parent ]
    The Obama organization (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by samsguy18 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:26:14 AM EST
    Here in Chicago.... There is little doubt in the minds of his supporters that they will easily win this election.Their expectation is the Hillary supporters will fall in line over time.

     

    ain't gonna happen (5.00 / 10) (#67)
    by ccpup on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:32:22 AM EST
    a very recent Gallup poll showed 17% of Hillary Supporters voting for McCain and a solid 22% deciding to stay home.

    That's nearly 40% of her supporters he's going to have to win back and, as it stands, his arrogance is preventing him from clearly seeing he needs to come off his damn high-horse and WORK for those votes.  In the bubble they keep him in, he doesn't need them to win and Michelle and Oprah are already choosing the drapes and -- per his remarks in Chicago yesterday -- looking at a successful second term ending in 2016.

    Perhaps a loss of historic proportions is exactly what the Dems need to clear out the corrupt dross from the DNC. (cough) Brazile (cough) Dean (cough)

    [ Parent ]

    Rest assured that McCain has seen that poll (5.00 / 3) (#75)
    by honora on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:44:05 AM EST
    and is already working to capitalize on it.  I think there is a good chance that he will pick a woman and that would be a game changer.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh, you are SO WRONG! (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Shainzona on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:46:35 AM EST
    If he picks any woman he will have behaved as James Cagney did in the movie where he smashes a grapefruit in the woman's (Jean Harlow?)face.

    Seriously, if you think for one minute that picking a woman as his VP is going to have us swooning in the streets, you are seriously delusional.  Seriously.

    [ Parent ]

    Whoops - sorry I thought you were (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Shainzona on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:47:56 AM EST
    talking about Obama.

    IF MCain picks a women, you're right.  And isn't it sad that the first female president in this country will probably be a republican?

    [ Parent ]

    What's her name, Florina? the ex ceo of Hewlett (none / 0) (#122)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:13:26 AM EST
    Packard who is campaigning for him? - she would be acceptable to the GOP because of her business experience! That would be tragic, if McCain won because of his pairing with a smart woman while Obama spurned Hillary because of arrogance and spite!

    [ Parent ]
    I see Kay Bailey Hutchison (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by txpolitico67 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:18:22 AM EST
    on the horizon.  They (GOP) will start courting her left, right, front and center.  Kay Bay is also a moderate (she is pro-choice for the SCOTUS blackmailers).


    [ Parent ]
    do you remember her history of (none / 0) (#154)
    by hellothere on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:21:59 AM EST
    hitting staffers? kay is a mixed candidate of sorts. she has been better than the other gop senator from texas but that's not saying much. if she doesn't get the gop nod for veep, she might run for governor.

    [ Parent ]
    the concensus is that she is running for (none / 0) (#166)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:04:06 PM EST
    governor because her children are very young and she wants to come back to TX permanently! Now that she's in the minority, she's lost all her powers.

    [ Parent ]
    The way the economy is tanking (none / 0) (#127)
    by brodie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:24:39 AM EST
    right now and gas prices going through the roof, housing market plummeting, health care expenses rising, well in a solidly Dem year, you can bet Team McCain are almost certainly thinking they'll need a game changer come the fall.

    And they would score double, maybe triple bonus points for their side with a solid mod-conservative female VP pick if the Dems run an all-male ticket.

    Either KB Hutchinson or Gov Palin of AK are the two most obvious women he could choose.

    [ Parent ]

    All that McCain has to do (none / 0) (#168)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:11:33 PM EST
    is remind people of the gas lines in 1974 with Carter (wasn't his fault but he was blamed).  Couple that all of Obama's gaffes that bring forth his inexperience, and we'll have President McCain.

    Then maybe we can start over with Hillary in 2012.

    [ Parent ]

    A Sen. Obama loss won't clear anything. (5.00 / 4) (#83)
    by wurman on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:54:33 AM EST
    In fact, during his campaign, Sen. Obama will appoint many operatives to the DNC.  His word alone will sway decisions about both the house & senatorial campaign committees.

    As the nominee, Sen. Obama will re-structure the financial, platform & rules apparatus of the Democratic Party.  Win or lose, the party will be substantially altered before Election Day in November to totally support the needs of the Obama campaign.  If he wins, some of those folks will follow him into the administration in various patronage type jobs.  If he loses, those "minions" will stay in their positions with the party structure.

    The reason Donna Brazile & all her ilk are in positions of power is because Sen. John F. Kerry was the nominee in 2004.

    [ Parent ]

    Let's not forget that these same people lost (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:44:38 AM EST
    elections after elections. Daschle lost the senate twice and his own re-election campaign!!!! and actually seriously thought of running for the presidency - talk about delusional! This will be my consolation when they lose again in November.

    I just don't understand why the SD listened to losers and ditched the winners of 2 elections, one of which was won after the republicans took control of both houses and were at their peak of popularity!

    I feel they backed Obama to atone themselves of the miserable job they did in losing previous elections, therefore, feel they are in the best position to counsel him in the art of not repeating their mistakes by focusing instead on new voters enthusiasn, to give them the win, while ignoring  and ditching the old party's constituency which they blame for their inadequacies!

    [ Parent ]

    well then they are setting the stage then (none / 0) (#156)
    by hellothere on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:23:26 AM EST
    for decades of loss sorry to say.

    [