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Leadership

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:10:51 PM EST
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A Party's Leader should lead. I agree with dday:

Barack Obama could put an end to [the Dems' attempt to capitulate on FISA] today if he wanted. He could tell his colleagues in the House and the Senate that they should not work so hard to codify into law what his opponent is calling for - the ability for an executive to secretly spy on Americans.

. . . Senator Obama has the power to end this. . . . This is . . . an excellent opportunity for Obama to show his leadership skills and where he stands on civil liberties and Constitutional issues. We know that McCain is a mirror of Bush on that score. Senator Obama, you are the party's leader. Do something about this. Today.

Indeed.

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    If she's holding her (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:13:00 PM EST
    breath for that, she'd better change her web background from yellow to pass-out blue.

    Obama won't want to mess up his terrorism creds with -- Republicans.

    DING DING DING DING (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by madamab on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:15:20 PM EST
    This election WILL be about national security creds. The McCainStream Media will make it so.

    No one believes me. I am Cassandra.

    Parent

    Just so I'm clear... (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by madamab on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:26:34 PM EST
    if Clinton is the nominee, the election will be about the economy, as it rightly should be.

    Unfortunately, Obama has zero credibility on the economy after his performance in the Philly debates.

    Parent

    The Pew poll a couple weeks ago... (none / 0) (#63)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:58:07 PM EST
    ...had McCain leading Obama among all voters on who would be better for the economy.

    That Obama has not differentiated himself from McCain on the economy--the traditional linchpin of Dem support--doesn't auger well for the general.

    Parent

    Are you sure? (none / 0) (#77)
    by standingup on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:15:19 PM EST
    The Pew report released May 29:

    Obama holds sizable advantages over McCain as better able to handle the economy as well as the nation's energy problems. Currently, half of voters say Obama could do a better job of improving the economy, while 36% favor McCain. Obama's lead over McCain on the economy is about the same as it was in April (53% Obama vs. 33% McCain).


    Parent
    I stand corrected (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:41:30 PM EST
    It was this Rasmussen poll I was thinking of.

    Parent
    Well, even (none / 0) (#26)
    by pie on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:27:34 PM EST
    Skeletor announced recently that there were no (fake) terrorist threats on the horizon.  But I suppose that some people (who remain under their beds) might attribute that to Bush's strong (yuk yuk) leadership in combating the "evil" ones.

    Parent
    I believe you. (none / 0) (#36)
    by Lysis on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:38:04 PM EST
    And like Cassandra, by the time you're proven right, it will be too late.

    Parent
    Obama could (none / 0) (#106)
    by PamFl on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:02:21 PM EST
    tell dems to vote against expanding FISA & Telco immunity, but he won't. He won't do anything to alienate the repub voters he's courting. His friend Jay Rockefeller has been pushing for this compromise since the old FISA expired. The dem majority we won in 2006 has done nothing but compromise and give in to the repubs. Just more of the same.

    Parent
    He can run an opposition in the Senate now. (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Salo on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:13:02 PM EST
    Parliament Funkobamika.

    Yeah. BTD addressing something (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:14:00 PM EST
    besides the horse race.

    Heh (5.00 / 0) (#10)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:20:15 PM EST
    Anything he does in the Senate now is just showcasing. His record is already history, and now every move he makes will be politically motivated.

    I don't believe he has it in him to care about anyone outside his small circle of friends.

    Can he add another earmark for big bucks to Father Pfleger?

    Parent

    ooooh SNAP!! To my mind, he is still the (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by PssttCmere08 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:25:59 PM EST
    leader of nothing...Hillary still shows more leadership than he does...it isn't in him, because in the immortal words of GWB "It's hard work".

    Parent
    I think he can only do one thing (none / 0) (#28)
    by zfran on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:29:25 PM EST
    at a time...so, this will have to wait...he's trying to figure out what to do about that awful Hillary!!

    Parent
    someone put this in another (none / 0) (#47)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:49:12 PM EST
    thread. from Republico:

    Obama's first test: Handling Hillary

    love that language.
    and as I said before Roger Simon is a "real" reporter.
    americablog says so.


    Parent

    Indeed (5.00 / 6) (#5)
    by andgarden on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:16:44 PM EST
    And interestingly, the Republicans have been very willing to play on this turf. Here's a chance for Obama to demonstrate that he can transform politics. But more importantly, here's a chance for him to end the perception that he has no accomplishments to his name.

    Care to disclose your prediction now? (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:18:12 PM EST


    Parent
    He won't do anything.. (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by rjarnold on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:24:19 PM EST
    He's avoiding all the risky positions and stands that he can. If he does make it an issue I'll give someone $100.

    Parent
    my thoughts exactly (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by clbrune on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:49:53 PM EST
    Disclaimer: I prefer Clinton to Obama, but I also think Obama is much better than McCain.

    That said, I have yet to see one single issue he has taken a stand on.  One thing where he didn't go along to get along.  One thing where he took a political risk for principle.

    And no, giving an anti-war speech to a liberal anti-war crowd in 2002 doesn't cut it.

    Now, if he'd voted to cut war funding... ... ... but no.

    Parent

    I'll take it, but I won't count on it. n/t (none / 0) (#27)
    by inclusiveheart on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:28:45 PM EST


    Parent
    About what? The election? (none / 0) (#19)
    by andgarden on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:24:52 PM EST
    I'd like to see Obama with a solid lead in PA and OH. When I see that, I'll say that he's favored.

    Parent
    No, silly. About whether Obama (none / 0) (#23)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:26:11 PM EST
    will lead re FISA.

    Parent
    He will not (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by andgarden on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:32:11 PM EST


    Parent
    not only will he not (none / 0) (#41)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:44:14 PM EST
    dont be surprised if he comes out for the McCain version.  he has to metoo someone now that Hillarys gone.
    and he has to attract some voters now that he is only going to get half the democrats.

    Parent
    Ouch (none / 0) (#61)
    by Lahdee on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:54:50 PM EST
    I wonder if the super delegates know. I also wonder if they hope he doesn't cause leadership is so, well it's difficult, and oh so easy to mishandle. Don't want to take a risk this early in the game now do we.

    Parent
    It won't happen... (none / 0) (#107)
    by kredwyn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 10:04:25 AM EST


    Parent
    Ah (5.00 / 5) (#6)
    by eric on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:17:20 PM EST
    the naïveté.  Yep, I am sure Obama will get right on this.  

    True believers, these people are.

    Adding to this (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by eric on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:24:08 PM EST
    I do want to say that I do agree that Obama could do this.  I just think that dday is being a bit naive to think Obama will.

    Not trying to insult anyone, especially BTD.  ;)

    Parent

    Actually I think you're trying to insult me (none / 0) (#105)
    by dday on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:54:14 PM EST
    How exactly do you know that I'm naive enough to think that a generally centrist politician's first instinct is to take this kind of risk?

    But where does it get anyone not ASKING for this kind of leadership and just expecting to be disappointed.  Nice way to get yourself through the day, horrible way to actually be the change you want to see.

    And for the record this is something I've called for every time this issue has come up.

    Parent

    It will be a steeeep learning curve for (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by hairspray on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:25:13 PM EST
    the big O.  Unfortunately by the time he gets his sea legs (the GOP will have walked all over him with the help of the blue dog dems) and the country will have bought the "change we can believe in" mantra for another 4 -8 years.

    Parent
    It Is A Hope Based Campaign (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:32:03 PM EST
    His supporters keep hoping that he will actually have all the qualities that they have given him. They have not asked that he do anything for their support and he will give them exactly what they asked for.

    No way will he lead on FISA or any other important issue. In fact, if anything he will go even further right during the GE.  

    Parent

    Obama has a bully pulpit (5.00 / 6) (#7)
    by Steve M on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:17:58 PM EST
    If he chooses to do so, he can hammer an issue from now until November using the biggest microphone known to mankind (er, assuming he somehow manages to secure the nomination, TL friends).

    Democrats play way too much defense on the so-called national security issues.  It's all "You're a bunch of terrorist coddlers!"  "No we're not!"  It would be great to have a nominee who takes up the banner and aggressively hammers the Republicans on these issues, rather than sitting back and letting them do it to us.

    Heck, I might even put an Obama sign (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:19:29 PM EST
    in my yard if he did this.

    Parent
    now that you mention it... (none / 0) (#60)
    by clbrune on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:54:37 PM EST
    ...an Obama stand on FISA would really boost my opinion of him.  Enough to put a sign up.

    FISA has me so ticked off that everytime the DNC asks me for money I point out FISA. Not a dime to the national party (or DSCC or DCCC) until they stand up about FISA and telecom immunity.

    Parent

    this is just the kind of thing (none / 0) (#64)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:59:43 PM EST
    McCain would like to draw him into.  soft on terra, you know.
    wont happen.  it would be the right thing to do but possibly not politically smart.


    Parent
    It might actually be smart (none / 0) (#96)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:59:28 PM EST
    Politically, Every survey I've seen shows the public is very much opposed to amnesty for the telecoms. Most people dislike the telecoms more than they dislike the opposition party. And it would finally put some meat on his resume.

    Parent
    he's been a media darling (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by boredmpa on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:43:57 PM EST
    since before he declared for pres.  he hasn't used that status for the party or for the people, so why should we expect him to start now?  Or even after he's elected (if he actually wins)?

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#44)
    by Steve M on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:47:32 PM EST
    I'm not saying you should expect anything :)

    Parent
    If he did that I'd begin to lose some of (none / 0) (#68)
    by vicndabx on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:04:08 PM EST
    the bad taste in my mouth.

    Parent
    so many jokes (none / 0) (#74)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:12:50 PM EST
    get thee behind me satan

    Parent
    So far, Obama has not (5.00 / 5) (#11)
    by TomP on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:20:32 PM EST
    made this a priority issue.  I doubt he will in light of McCain's use of national security against him.

    Senator Clinton could lead on this.  She actually might enjoy a good fight with the Republicans.  

    Excellent idea (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:23:22 PM EST
    I'm sure she's got a build up of steam she'd like to let out. If anyone's entitled to it, she is.


    Parent
    They would just (5.00 / 4) (#24)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:26:26 PM EST
    accuse her of using it to make her case for the Presidency. And as an excuse to slap her down. Such is the season.

    Parent
    Go to her web site and make a suggestion about (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by jawbone on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:25:04 PM EST
    this issue. She might feel she shouldn't step on Obama's toes, as he says he's against allowing new wiretapping laws.

    Will he do anything? In the past it was not in his MO (modus operandi, not his wife's initials). Think Excelon. Could be quite telling -- so far he has not asked his supporters, such as Jay Rockefeller, to support his stand.


    Parent

    always with a good tip (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by Salo on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:25:52 PM EST
    Clinton could let her energy go into a knowck down drag out fight in the senate.

    Parent
    dissing hillary however does seem to (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by hellothere on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:27:54 PM EST
    be a priority issue.

    Parent
    Why of course. Why didn't I see it before (none / 0) (#99)
    by RalphB on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:10:18 PM EST
    He should let the losing candidate do the leading for him because he's too big a coward.  How revealing.


    Parent
    My prediction is that Obama will (5.00 / 6) (#12)
    by bjorn on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:22:17 PM EST
    show no leadership during the GE campaign. No leadership got him this far why change it now!

    One of Obama's supporters, (5.00 / 5) (#13)
    by Grace on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:22:33 PM EST
    some Congressman, was just on TV.  He was asked about Obama's lack of leadership experience and experience in general.  He said that Obama was going to run on "Change" and "Judgment" in the GE.  

    I'm finding this all very "fluffy."  It's kind of like promising your new husband (or wife) that your marriage will be the best one in the world even though you are both only 17.  You can promise them a lovely house, fine clothes, the best kids, money in the bank -- and forget that it takes a lot of work to create "the best marriage in the world."  Someone with experience would know that.  

    "Judgment"?! (none / 0) (#32)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:32:00 PM EST
    NO! He can't go there! Oy.

    Parent
    Yes, (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by Grace on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:53:54 PM EST
    you see Obama has this speech he gave about 8 years ago, and it showed he had very good judgment. <rolling eyes>

    Oh!  And he married Michelle. <rolling eyes>

    Picked a great church. <more rolling eyes>

    Bought a lovely house in a suburb of Chicago.  <furiously rolling eyes>

    Yes, his lifetime has been nothing but good judgment...  :)

    Parent

    Magic 8-ball says... (5.00 / 5) (#15)
    by pie on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:23:24 PM EST
    no way. Too risky.

    And what will our beloved dems do when left to their own devices?

    Heh.

    He's 0-1 (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:24:32 PM EST
    in leadership so far, FL/MI votes. He can easily get to 0-2 by not selecting HRC and 0-3 on this. Not a great start.

    don't forget (none / 0) (#50)
    by boredmpa on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:49:58 PM EST
    Ballot changes/purging

    Rezko

    Wright

    Claiming credit for other's senate work

    He simply cannot run on leadership/judgment...  and i think this is just an insanely stupid pick politically.  I can't see how the narrative will hold up in the GE.

    Parent

    rezko and wright (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:01:43 PM EST
    are ridiculous. there is no evidence of salacious dealings with Rezko and we all have friends or acquaintances in our lives that in retrospect we say "yikes". Or are you that grand judge of character that has never had a friend or associate that turned out to be a sheister? Wright is free to say what he damned well pleases to his congregation and my guess is if you taped every minister in this country every week for a few years you would find some really embarassing and stupid crap. I find it more embarassing that he actually attends church and worships a god that smote homosexuals, allowed polygamy, authorized slaughter etc. But you cannot get elected as an atheist or agnostic so you gots to have some jesus...

    Parent
    Amen to that... (none / 0) (#73)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:12:38 PM EST
    There's plenty to criticize Obama over...but Rez and Wright ain't it.

    It's as silly as Sniper-gate.  Or the blue dress.

    I'd say lets keep our eyes on the ball but I haven't seen the ball since the primaries started.

    Parent

    I agree that rezko is a bit of a stretch, but (none / 0) (#90)
    by hairspray on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:33:52 PM EST
    then the media made a lot about Bill C. and whitewater and it wasn't anything at all.  However, Rev Wright was clearly out of the mainstream with his comments on AIDs as a conspiracy against blacks by the white society.  Obama sat there for 20 years and no one can tell me that Wright's comments were simply an occasional slip that somehow Obama missed. Sorta like all those votes Obama missed on abortion rights while in the Ill. senate?

    Parent
    Tell that to the media (none / 0) (#93)
    by pie on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:40:50 PM EST
    and the republicans.

    You're not going to be able to control this.


    Parent

    oops (none / 0) (#54)
    by boredmpa on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:51:01 PM EST
    that should have been challenges, not changes

    Parent
    Obama has never shown leadership (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Prabhata on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:42:32 PM EST
    why start now

    HA! HA! HA! (5.00 / 5) (#65)
    by BDB on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:00:22 PM EST
    Now dday is calling on Obama to show leadership?  Gee, you know you might have wanted to do that during the primary when he still needed you.  But since the blogosphere asked nothing for its support from Obama, I'm guessing nothing is exactly what they're going to get.  

    It's GE time, baby, time to move to the right.  Oh wait, Obama did that during the primary.  Okay, time to move to the right some more!  If the bloggers don't like it, why would Obama care?

    GREAT comment (none / 0) (#103)
    by lilburro on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:37:59 PM EST
    you would think bloggers would realize that a candidate who openly claims not to care about Daily Kos is not going to listen now.  Also, we know Obama doesn't even think this way:

    "He could tell his colleagues in the House and the Senate that they should not work so hard to codify into law what his opponent is calling for - the ability for an executive to secretly spy on Americans."

    But that wouldn't be very bipartisan, now would it?  Expect Obama to do little, then find a way to praise the concerns of Republicans involved.

    Parent

    This... (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by Jackson Hunter on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:09:10 PM EST
    would be an excellent time for both he and Hilary to come together on something and threaten to lead a filibuster in the Senate.  Of course, that makes sense so being Democrats they probably won't do it.  (semi snark)

    Obama, whether we like it or not, is the Leader of the Party (God or Dog help us) so he should be a point man on this.  Instead, he's probably trying to figure out how to get McCain's name off of ballots or something.  Hilary should, but as noted above she can't because it would be percieved that she was trying to upstage Obama.

    Him taking the lead on this, and asking Hilary for her support on it, would go some ways to healing our rift.  Not all the way mind you, but it would gladden my heart and increase his chances for my vote.  Not that he gives a flying frick.

    Jackson

    Obama needs to convince us all (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Grace on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:10:11 PM EST
    that Leadership = Great Speeches.  

    As long as we realize that being a great orator is Leadership, he is the Leader we've been waiting for.  

    Experience in leading isn't necessary.  Just give us more motivational speeches.  

    Yeah. I'll be waiting for that. nt (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Jake Left on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:14:31 PM EST


    Some more "leadership" from Obama (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by lentinel on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:16:39 PM EST
    Just in case there are any commie-pinkos out there who think that Barack Obama would talk to adversaries without preconditions, what some terrorist sympathizers would characterize as a "progressive" position, he just straightened them, and us, out.

    Here he is, the peace-maker:

    "Contrary to the claims of some, I have no interest in sitting down with our adversaries just for the sake of talking," Mr. Obama said. (Thank God for that. We can't have talks just for the sake of getting to know one another. Huh uh.)

    Our leader continues: "But as President of the United States, I would be willing to lead tough and principled diplomacy with the appropriate Iranian leader at a time and place of my choosing -- if, and only if, it can advance the interests of the United States."

    Great. He has to choose the spot. (Reminds me of the months of discussion about the shape of the table before our elected idiots could sit down to discuss the end of the Vietnam war.)

    He gets to choose the Iranian leader with whom to speak. We would assume that would be the leader of Iran.

    And - the discussion would have to further our interests. He would have to know that in advance.

    You can bet that our adversaries would jump at the chance to be humiliated by the new commander-in-chief.

    If there is any difference between this posture and that of the arch-fiend McCain, I fail to see it.

    I doubt seriously (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Grace on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:32:46 PM EST
    that he would really want to speak with them.  He'd probably prefer to give them a speech instead.  Do they have teleprompters in Iran?  

    Parent
    Ah, but the test comes when we see (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by RalphB on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:21:02 PM EST
    if all of the people who were 100% behind his old position now pretzelify themselves into 100% behind his new position.  Or they can take the path of the Bush admin and just say that's what he meant all along, everyone simply misunderstood him.  :-)


    Parent
    And thus (none / 0) (#98)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:08:34 PM EST
    the flip flopping portrayal shall be begin.

    Parent
    I Always Found It Curious (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by CDN Ctzn on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:17:07 PM EST
    That over the course of this campaign season, a so-called "Constitutional Scholar" who taught Constitutional Law at Univ. of Chicago has remained suspiciously silent regarding the violations of the Constitution. When last I checked his Web site, there was no mention of the current challenges to the Constitution and how he would reverse the damage already done to it. For that matter, I have never heard, at least to my recollection, any of the "Progressive" blogs or pundits championing any defense by Obama nor protests of outrage made by him to the violations of the Constitution that have already occured thus far in his brief stint as a US Senator.

    I would think that with his credentials, the championing of the Constitution would be one of his passions. I can only conclude that it apparently isn't!

    I guess that he's been too preoccupied spent since entering politics (I believe a grand total of 16 years)with posturing for the Presidency, to worry about a little thing like the systematic dismanteling of the Constitution.

    How true (none / 0) (#97)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:03:31 PM EST
    I have tried to find his stance on this and I can't. I submitted it as a question on any debate I could and evidently no one else thought it was important, beacuse I never heard the question asked or answered.

    Parent
    Move Along Everyone (none / 0) (#100)
    by CDN Ctzn on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:18:30 PM EST
    "Nothing to see here!" they said as thet tried to cover up any trace of a crime.

    Just think, with that pesky OLD Constitution out of the way we won't have to worry about silly things like:
    -Liberty
    -Justice
    -Equality
    -freedom of speech
    -freedom of religion
    -free and fare elections...
    (You get the point)

    No one ever said CHANGE had to be a positive thing!

    Parent

    OOPS! (none / 0) (#101)
    by CDN Ctzn on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:20:20 PM EST
    I meant FAIR elections.
    Damn you spell check!

    Parent
    FISA would actually be a good place for (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Newt on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:20:16 PM EST
    Hillary to step up to the plate.  If she wants the VP spot, this is an opportunity to show she can take the heat of that position.  Democrats are always reasonably afraid to advocate for far-left positions like, gasp, ending a war or stopping government spying.  And rightly so, since not enough of us left leaning liberals reward them for sticking their necks out.  It's really the one place where the people need to lead, and we've failed our leaders miserably.  

    But in this case, the national sentiment is coming around.  She's got more seniority in the senate than Obama, and if her supporters are looking for someone to fight for us, here's an excellent place to show leadership between now and August.

    so hillary is supposed to do the heavy (none / 0) (#91)
    by hellothere on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:33:58 PM EST
    lifting while obama does nothing. for the veep? she's not getting it. she'll be blamed for stealing the limelight from the one the selected for the nomination. how dare she? why should she? i have a novel idea why doesn't she do it for americans and not political calculation.

    Parent
    Priority (none / 0) (#29)
    by rilkefan on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:30:33 PM EST
    It's possible he may want to save capital for the war, healthcare, etc.  Digby is convinced there's something serious driving this FISA nonsense - if so it won't come free.

    I imagine dday realizes that, but it's worth pushing for what we want even if we won't get it.

    Heh (5.00 / 4) (#31)
    by Steve M on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:31:46 PM EST
    Keep that powder dry!

    Parent
    There are caverns full of dry powder (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Salo on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:47:42 PM EST
    huge caverns full of the stuff fulling the catacombs below DC.  You can enter the dry powder vaults from a trap door in Nancy Pelosi's office on capitol hill.   She uses the key to the trap dooor as a paper weight for stack of undelivered her stern letters to dick Cheney to release his papers for the secret deliberation's on his energy task force.

    Parent
    no kidding (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:51:15 PM EST
    and they still cant blow their nose.

    Parent
    ok so remind why i should vote for obama. (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by hellothere on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:31:06 PM EST
    he won't show leadership. check! he talks about change and leadership. check, action, no. check. and i am supposed to sign up and sign the anthem. naw!

    Parent
    There's an army of cheneyorcs to kill n/t (none / 0) (#57)
    by rilkefan on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:51:46 PM EST


    Parent
    no need to waste powder on them (none / 0) (#66)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:00:53 PM EST
    sunlight will do.

    Parent
    Need powder to blow up dirt blocking the sun n/t (none / 0) (#80)
    by rilkefan on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:17:24 PM EST


    Parent
    Exactly. (none / 0) (#35)
    by pie on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:34:01 PM EST


    Parent
    Just saying (none / 0) (#37)
    by rilkefan on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:38:10 PM EST
    We shouldn't get into the habit of beating Obama up every time he's not perfect, esp. when we don't have all the data.  "Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien."

    Parent
    And likewise (5.00 / 4) (#42)
    by Steve M on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:45:17 PM EST
    I don't think we should go too far in the direction of giving people the benefit of the doubt.

    Democrats have been stockpiling political capital since January 2007, and it's hard to see what they're saving it up for other than November 2008.

    Is Obama keeping his powder dry so he can take a bold, courageous step on the war?  Sure, it's possible, but we know what his record is on the war since 2004 and "courage" is not the word that leaps to mind.  Hope springs eternal, but I don't believe there's any fact-based reason to expect sudden boldness.

    When a Democrat refuses to lead, 99% of the time there is no hidden reason other than their own political fortunes.

    Parent

    Courage would have been a good slogan. (none / 0) (#51)
    by Salo on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:50:45 PM EST
    Unbelievable in the context but a fantastic slogan.

    Parent
    Sure (none / 0) (#52)
    by rilkefan on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:50:52 PM EST
    But dday just says, here's a chance to show leadership.  I'll send the Obama campaign some money if he does.  I doubt I'll have to, but I'm not going to start yelling at Obama until I'm convinced he's craven or naively bipartisan or whathaveyou, and day one of his tenure as presumptive leader of the party is time to exhort not condemn.

    Parent
    Ah (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:51:36 PM EST
    Se I yell at all the pols.

    Whenever the cave in on important issues.

    Parent

    Yell not condemn (none / 0) (#76)
    by rilkefan on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:14:31 PM EST
    Also note that I'm in no position to be heard, so I get the luxury of weighing the entire situation.  You have a lever and a place to stand.

    Parent
    I am in the habit of beating up every pol (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:50:59 PM EST
    and never ever giving any of them the benefit of the doubt on issues.

    Parent
    Unfortunately (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by standingup on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:26:09 PM EST
    that has become a novel idea in the blogosphere.  


    Parent
    Everytime he's not perfect? (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by pie on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:04:08 PM EST
    When has he taken a stand on ANYTHING?

    We can no longer afford a president like this when we've already had a Congress that's become a rubberstamp.

    I worry that we're in for it again.  

    Parent

    There are caverns full of dry powder (none / 0) (#46)
    by Salo on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:47:47 PM EST
    huge caverns full of the stuff fulling the catacombs below DC.  You can enter the dry powder vaults from a trap door in Nancy Pelosi's office on capitol hill.   She uses the key to the trap dooor as a paper weight for stack of undelivered her stern letters to dick Cheney to release his papers for the secret deliberation's on his energy task force.

    Parent
    Gunpowder under the capitol? (none / 0) (#82)
    by travc on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:24:46 PM EST
    Why can I not stop thinking of Guy Fawkes all of a sudden.  Maybe this isn't the best imagery to use ;)

    Parent
    Sorry. I've been hearing this (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by pie on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:33:39 PM EST
    for about six years.

    I'm tired of the excuses and the secrecy.

    These people have gotten away with murder.

    Parent

    What's behind this is a simple issue of (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by inclusiveheart on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:46:04 PM EST
    timing.

    Harry Reid said they were going to table the issue until after the primaries and here we are - the day after the primaries.

    The Dems are going to cave and I don't think for a second that either Obama or Clinton are going to try to stop the train.  It has been poised to leave the station just as soon as this race was over.  Sigh.

    Parent

    is his middle name Lucy? (none / 0) (#48)
    by Salo on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:49:12 PM EST


    Parent
    Maybe he meant the 2040 primaries? (none / 0) (#86)
    by AX10 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:30:40 PM EST
    The Dems in congress have been delaying and delaying and delaying and delaying.....

    Parent
    DNC Makes it Official - Obama is the Nom (none / 0) (#38)
    by dazedreamer52 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:41:56 PM EST
    In case anyone missed it, the DNC just updated their homepage to show that Obama is the official nominee.

    Well, isn't that nice (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by pie on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:05:40 PM EST
    in light of the Rezko verdict.

    Let that partay begin!

    Parent

    Obama does not (none / 0) (#58)
    by wobbly on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:52:55 PM EST
    have the "power" to do this.  He's a junior Senator from Illinois, barely into his first term.

    I know he's the Democratic nominee...

    This translates into NOTHING in the United States Senate.

    I hate Obama as much as you do, but this post is crap.

    The Dems.... (none / 0) (#62)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:56:46 PM EST
    will not allow the telecoms to be exposed to any liability, especially after serving as loyal informers...but they have to put on a good show for liberty lovin' lefties.  Besides, they know where their bread is buttered.

    It's much easier for Republicans, they just have to say "WOT" and their base gives them carte blanche.    

    If it were going to happen... (none / 0) (#92)
    by lambert on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:37:44 PM EST
    ... it would already have happened (as with every other opportunity Obama has had to lead, or bring unity).

    The time for Obama to act on FISA was back in January when he could have lent his support to the Dodd filibuster. (And I'd probably be supporting him today.)

    Na. Ga. Happen.

    Obama? Lead? (none / 0) (#95)
    by dws3665 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:41:44 PM EST
    In the immortal words of Alicia Silverstone: "As IF!"

    If only.... (none / 0) (#104)
    by Oje on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:39:06 PM EST
    This could become one in a series of litmus tests for an Obama candidacy. If Obama is the progressive savior that bloggers formerly known as A-listers claim he is, then Obama's actions here will tell us about his leadership. Tepid and unwhipped opposition will not do. It is less than 8 months until the next president takes office. Both politically and constitutionally it makes sense for Obama to make this one of the differences between a Democratic and Republican presidency.

    However, if the bloggers formerly known as A-listers let Obama off the hook on yes another of the blogosphere's signature issues, well then, we will just be witnessing one more progressive policy position lost in the triumphalism of the new left authoritarianism.

    Leadership | 106 comments (106 topical)

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