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< Clinton Dems: Will Obama Fight For Them? | "Unity" Jimmy Carter Style >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Women and self-promotion (5.00 / 6) (#2)
    by catfish on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:15:25 AM EST
    Anyone here recall a study showing that assertive women who tout their accomplishments elicit more negative reactions than men who do the same?

    Heads are exploding over Hillary's non-concession speech last night and that may be part of the explanation.

    Also, my theory is she is just more confident than he is and anytime the two speak side-by-side some will be upset but they won't know why.

    I remember this (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by BoGardiner on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:41:25 PM EST
    It's a corollary to studies that show that women are raised to be far more modest in touting their accomplishments, which is a disadvantage in the workplace.  So when one does it, it seems "unfeminine."

    [ Parent ]
    See works by Deborah Tannen (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by Cream City on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:54:47 PM EST
    for starters, on differences in communication style.  Her books collect together and cite lots of studies.

    [ Parent ]
    Probobly the same reason (none / 0) (#63)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:38:23 AM EST
    some people find the mother in The Manchurian Candidate unbelievably creepy and Hannibal intriguing.

    [ Parent ]
    Speaking for yourself? n/t (none / 0) (#201)
    by BoGardiner on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:50:18 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    What does Hillary want? (5.00 / 5) (#3)
    by Steve M on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:15:34 AM EST
    I can't help it, I just got such a kick out of that line. :)

    Um, I'd think that was obvious. (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:26:50 AM EST
    It's not Health Care Czar.
    It's not Vice President.
    I think she's running for some office or other, let me think, I'm sure it will come to me...

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by Steve M on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:39:07 AM EST
    You know, I understand that a lot of people are asking, what does Hillary want? What does she want? Well, I want what I have always fought for in this whole campaign. I want to end the war in Iraq. I want to turn this economy around. I want health care for every American. I want every child to live up to his or her God-given potential, and I want the nearly 18 million Americans who voted for me to be respected, to be heard and no longer to be invisible.


    [ Parent ]
    seems clear to me (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:43:35 AM EST
    I dont see what the problem is

    [ Parent ]
    How are any of those (none / 0) (#144)
    by FruitlandGenerics on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:03:13 PM EST
    incompatiable with voting for Obama? Because they sure are with voting for McCain.

    Just a thought from an Obama supporter, eager to work with Clinton supporters to elect a Democratic president this fall.

    [ Parent ]

    Well, this is a switch!! Have whiplash?? (3.66 / 3) (#210)
    by FlaDemFem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:05:50 PM EST
    You should..
    an Obama supporter, eager to work with Clinton supporters
    is a total 180 from the trash we have been subjected to by Obama supporters since he declared he was running. The fact that you are "eager" is amusing. Too bad you weren't "eager" to be polite over the last year. Or even "eager" to forgo the slimy attacks and innuendo that the Obama team has flung at the Hillary supporters, and Hillary, for the last year or so.

    I am not eager to work with Obama supporters. I am waiting for them to PROVE that he is worth voting for. If they don't, and I doubt they can, I will write in Hillary. I will never vote for a Republican, but I will not vote for an unqualified candidate just because the Democratic Party was stupid enough to nominate him.

    [ Parent ]

    Hey now (none / 0) (#216)
    by Steve M on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:11:35 PM EST
    Some people suck.  Other people don't suck.  Let's not tar this individual with the bad conduct of some other people who happen to support the same candidate.

    There are some over-the-top Clinton supporters whom I certainly wouldn't want to be associated with.

    [ Parent ]

    In my opinion (none / 0) (#147)
    by Steve M on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:04:44 PM EST
    I'm pretty sure none of them are compatible!

    I also happen to think that if you have two people who are both popular and committed to the exact same goals, you ought to try and get them to team up.

    [ Parent ]

    Personally, it's not my first choice (none / 0) (#166)
    by FruitlandGenerics on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:15:42 PM EST
    but if it's what's needed, it won't stop me from voting for a joint ticket.

    I think she could have a great role in this administration, and she certainly would be a tireless advocate for health care reform.

    What that role should be, however, should be up to the presumptive nominee.

    [ Parent ]

    I loved it, too. Of course, a lot of guys (5.00 / 2) (#206)
    by Cream City on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:01:37 PM EST
    don't hear the dog-whistle to women in that . . . except our Steve M.

    Talking with several women friends last night, each and every one mentioned that line, with great laughter -- and each and every one of us also won't forget the line about being "invisible."

    And much more that Clinton said that made it, actually, a speech about gender -- to women.  So media didn't realize it was a speech about gender, because they only expect that to be lecturing them rather than rallying the troops.  And it was so subtly done that it's part of what puzzled media so much, expecting a concession but getting a speech that made them say "what's that"?  

    That's what perfectly done dog-whistling does.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm basking in our South Dakota (5.00 / 6) (#4)
    by masslib on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:15:46 AM EST
    win.  A great day for the women of that state.  Whatever happens now, after a ten day losing streak in February, Hillary really came into her own as a leader.  It's been incredible to watch.

    And a slap on Tom Daschle (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by TalkRight on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:18:22 AM EST
    When will these leaders recognize the will of the people.. ask Kerry, Edwards the same question .. !!


    [ Parent ]
    Someone last night here listed (5.00 / 1) (#208)
    by Cream City on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:04:33 PM EST
    all the states won by Clinton and lost by party leaders for Obama:  Massachusetts/Kennedy and Kerry, Nevada/Reid, California/Pelosi, now South Dakota/Daschle, etc., etc.

    No wonder they're angry at her and scared by her -- Clinton really didn't need them to win their states.  And now they have to wonder what that means for their own careers. . . .

    [ Parent ]

    Yep (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by janarchy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:18:48 AM EST
    Tom Daschle really delivered that one, didn't he? With some extra special help from Ed Schultz.

    I think we should all email him and say THANKS, TOM! ;-)

    [ Parent ]

    From a (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by andgarden on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:42:01 AM EST
    local newspaper:

    Obama emphasized his message of change. Daschle was featured in some of Obama's campaign ads.



    [ Parent ]
    Don't forget to email the large mouth bassboy... (none / 0) (#124)
    by PssttCmere08 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:54:15 AM EST
    Ed Schultz has been nothing buy annoying this campaign cycle.  As I said yesterday, I wouldn't trust Daschle to deliver my lunch!!

    [ Parent ]
    Indeed (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by andgarden on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:21:22 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Loved the comment yesterday (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by zfran on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:28:33 AM EST
    about Hillary winning Mass/CA/SD in essence, shouting downs Kennedy/Kerry/Pelosi/Daschle. Great point!

    [ Parent ]
    Kerry is now scrambling in Mass!! (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by befuddledvoter on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:40:33 PM EST
    For the first time he is personally calling state delegates for his seat.  Seems there is another Dem who wants to run and the other dem is backed by many in the Mass. state legislature who supported Clinton.  Kerry does not want another Dem, even though he is favored to win, because he wants the summer off.  LOL

    [ Parent ]
    That's what the SDs haven't (3.00 / 1) (#223)
    by FlaDemFem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:21:22 PM EST
    thought about. The fact that Hillary won the most congressional districts, and that her supporters tend to vote the undercard, and in special elections. Obama's don't, as far as anyone can tell. That does not bode well for Obama's supporters in the DNC and the SD ranks.

    Hillary's supporters are quite capable of organizing opposition to them and winning their seats right out from under them. And I doubt Obama will campaign for them, he will be too busy with his own campaign. Although I think they can probably get him to put them in as a footnote in a speech when he campaigns for himself in their states. And I am really hopeful that Hillary will be too busy as well. Heh.

    Why are people who make a living in politics so effing stupid about political reality?? Do they really think we are going to forget what they have done this year? If they do, they are not only stupid but blind as well. Better they should be voted out of office. For the good of the country, of course.

    [ Parent ]

    Shared that with Tom Vilsack? (none / 0) (#130)
    by riddlerandy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:56:37 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    And the Romeny folks (3.00 / 1) (#27)
    by riddlerandy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:28:11 AM EST
    are loving their win in Montana

    [ Parent ]
    I have decided (5.00 / 6) (#39)
    by Steve M on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:32:41 AM EST
    I am going to start calling people like you "unity ambassadors."

    It seems like a respectful title to me.  Congratulations.

    [ Parent ]

    Steve, you are a true gentleman! (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:34:11 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    personally (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:42:29 AM EST
    I like UNITS

    [ Parent ]
    Ooooh oooohh how about (5.00 / 0) (#107)
    by Marvin42 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:49:13 AM EST
    BIG UNITS

    (BIG for Barack Intraparty Goon)

    Sorry couldn't make it work with Sen Obama.

    [ Parent ]

    Love It - Unity Ambassadors (5.00 / 4) (#61)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:38:12 AM EST
    Job requires the same qualifications and skill level as the former head of FEMA. Great job Brownie.

    [ Parent ]
    Hahaha (5.00 / 0) (#90)
    by Valhalla on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:44:01 AM EST
    I took that to mean 'Unity Units'!

    Hmm, I like mine better, no offense!

    [ Parent ]

    Great campaign Penn-ie (3.00 / 2) (#99)
    by riddlerandy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:46:05 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Which would make this thread at least (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by riddlerandy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:41:05 AM EST
    a Unity Consulate

    [ Parent ]
    I checked (3.00 / 2) (#57)
    by riddlerandy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:36:27 AM EST
    and Unity is a two way street

    [ Parent ]
    Yes (5.00 / 6) (#62)
    by Steve M on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:38:15 AM EST
    But even on a two-way street, it's possible to drive in the wrong direction.  Please don't abuse your diplomatic immunity.

    [ Parent ]
    hey now (5.00 / 0) (#67)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:39:28 AM EST
    no preconditions!!!!

    [ Parent ]
    Please post a lot! (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by Marvin42 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:40:21 AM EST
    I hope we have tens of thousands of posters like you across all blogs until Nov election. I really do. I want to make sure there is no chance Sen Obama can win.

    [ Parent ]
    I believe you when you say (1.00 / 0) (#95)
    by riddlerandy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:45:03 AM EST
    that your primary goal at this point is to make sure Obama loses.  Thanks for your candor.

    [ Parent ]
    And he can't do it without you (none / 0) (#211)
    by Cream City on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:06:50 PM EST
    and your beliefs losing it for your guy.  Keep it up, unity ambassador. :-)

    [ Parent ]
    Please see this comment: (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by masslib on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:36:34 AM EST
    http://www.talkleft.com/comments/2008/6/4/121220/7999/30#30

    Hillary's win there last night helped make this happen.  I am sure you can appreciate that.

    [ Parent ]

    Ineed, that is great news, thanks (none / 0) (#71)
    by riddlerandy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:39:44 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Senator Obama to give Hillary? (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by TalkRight on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:16:48 AM EST
    give Hillary a lead role in passing Health Care Reforms.. !!

    HA!! Who is Obama to give?? Hillary deserves that and no one can take it from her!! Neither Obama nor his elitist supporters!

    Obama is (3.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Y Knot on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:28:22 AM EST
    the presumptive nominee of her party, and (one would hope) the next President of the United States.

    If its not up to him to offer to give her a position in his administration, who is it up to?

    That being said, I would agree that she deserves it.  I just don't see where it's offensive to use the word "give."

    [ Parent ]

    how about (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:31:31 AM EST
    if he asks her to take a leading role?

    [ Parent ]
    no no no (5.00 / 4) (#91)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:44:01 AM EST
    the weak man must be in control always.  He gives he does not ask.

    [ Parent ]
    I believe I said (3.00 / 0) (#112)
    by Y Knot on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:50:49 AM EST
    "offer"  and you're saying "ask".

    I think it's a quibble, but I'll concede the point.  He should ask.

    Then she should accept.

    The point is to finally, finally fix the health care system.   I think she'd be excellent in that role.

    [ Parent ]

    It seems to me they have big (5.00 / 3) (#121)
    by Practically Lactating on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:52:56 AM EST
    disagreement on healthcare. She wants mandates, he doesn't.

    Hillary should have no part of that.

    [ Parent ]

    But they both (none / 0) (#149)
    by FruitlandGenerics on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:05:55 PM EST
    have the ultimate goal of providing health insurance to all Americans, unlike McCain.

    Our differences are minor compared to McCain...

    [ Parent ]

    Oh really? McCain says his goal is (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by Practically Lactating on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:21:29 PM EST
    providing health care for all Americans as well.

    From his website:

    John McCain Believes The Key To Health Care Reform Is To Restore Control To The Patients Themselves. We want a system of health care in which everyone can afford and acquire the treatment and preventative care they need. Health care should be available to all and not limited by where you work or how much you make. Families should be in charge of their health care dollars and have more control over care.

    The crux of both plans seems to be the assertion that A) maximizing the efficiency of the system and decreasing costs will lead to health care for all B) that they are uniquely capable of introducing these efficiencies to the healthcare system where everyone else has failed.

    I am not impressed with either plan and I hope Hillary does not agree to help push Obama's fauxgressive healthcare legislation.

    [ Parent ]

    Not really (none / 0) (#189)
    by cal1942 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:35:44 PM EST
    You haven't understood your own candidate's message.  The content of Obama's Change sctick is that he doesn't give a crap what you do.

    [ Parent ]
    She can do that from the Senate (none / 0) (#227)
    by FlaDemFem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:34:24 PM EST
    and do it more effectively since she won't be bound by administration policies in writing the health care program. In other words, Obama can't scr@w it up by insisting on things that he has promised to the health care industry. And if we get complete control of Congress, Obama won't be able to veto it without getting a really black eye politically. She should stay in the Senate, not tie herself to a potentially disastrous administration. Obama isn't good at the grunt work of elected office, and the Presidency is nothing but grunt work punctuated by a few photo ops and a state visit or two. Obama won't like it, or be very good at, in my opinion. So why should Hillary tie herself in any way to an unqualified President? She should stay in the Senate. She does that job so very well, unlike Senator Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    Ask her to do him the honor of being (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by samanthasmom on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:35:35 AM EST
    part of an Obama administration should he win in November is the way it's usually put.

    [ Parent ]
    Don't think it's a position anyway. (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:59:20 AM EST
    Probably means from the Senate. Anyway, he's already Harry and Louise'd her.

    [ Parent ]
    No, he's only the presumptuous nominee (none / 0) (#214)
    by Cream City on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:08:16 PM EST
    because a presumptive nominee has it locked up with sufficient pledged delegates.  Please get that, once and for all.  It's how politics is done, and it's not one of the DNC rules that it can overturn just for him.

    [ Parent ]
    Somerby as always gets it (5.00 / 10) (#9)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:18:57 AM EST
    This concession narrative is something they made up, the fake rumors etc.  It's an artifice constructed by the pundits and they have convinced themselves that it's historical reality.  

    It's amazing (5.00 / 9) (#19)
    by Steve M on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:23:50 AM EST
    Can we get this deal for the general election, though?  Will they demand on a daily basis that McCain drop out?

    [ Parent ]
    Constitutional ammendment (5.00 / 4) (#24)
    by ChuckieTomato on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:26:19 AM EST
    to change electoral college to a November caucus

    [ Parent ]
    With extra help (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by janarchy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:33:32 AM EST
    from the DNC to divine how the people who didn't show up at the polls really meant to vote and thus give Obama more electoral votes than he actually won, plus a few extra to help with national 'unity'.

    [ Parent ]
    I play golf better than my husband does (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by samanthasmom on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:39:13 AM EST
    so I always sport him a few strokes to make the round interesting.  My husband says that Obama needs an "election handicap" against McCain.  He thinks a state the size of Ohio might make the race more competitive.

    [ Parent ]
    They can use tarot cards instead of ballots (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by ChuckieTomato on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:40:04 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I dunno (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by janarchy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:43:52 AM EST
    I think scatomancy is their preferred method of divination. Of course, Donna Brazile could just channel the spirit of her Momma or some other female ancestor if her mother's still alive.

    [ Parent ]
    Why bother? (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by felizarte on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:35:25 PM EST
    The DNC can just declare that so many intended to vote and that would be that.

    [ Parent ]
    Lance Mannion (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by waldenpond on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:34:43 AM EST
    Related to the media evaluation...Mannion has a follow-up piece on the Press Corps Hillary hate and coverage.  Mannion.

    [I know there are lots of people who for whatever reason have to believe that Obama is going to win the nomination because he's a knight in shining armor and his strength is as the strength of ten because his heart is pure.  I won't argue with you, for the same reason I could never bring myself to tell my kids there's no Santa Claus.  They had to find it out for themselves because I'm an old softie.]

    [ Parent ]

    No, the media knows what they were able to pull (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by mogal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:54:03 AM EST
    off and I believe they are very proud this morning. Their sting operation worked. The United States was the mark.

    [ Parent ]
    Do we have the popular vote numbers yet? (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by kredwyn on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:19:09 AM EST


    Thanks Artoo (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by blogtopus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:21:46 AM EST
    She wouldn't be America's candidate without a little cheese, right?

    My wife pointed out all the articles stating "Obama wins nomination", and I said they'd rather spend 5 seconds writing one phrase than 20 minutes writing 3 paragraphs about how he technically hasn't won yet.

    I think Obama is just going after the lazy vote... which means a lot of bad news in November.

    There is no Unity Pony. (5.00 / 9) (#16)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:23:02 AM EST
    Went to the Orange and looked around.  Instead of "Our guy won, so let's rally 'round him and congratulate each other!"
    I found
    "OMG!  How dare she not concede!" (plus other sentiments best left unsaid.)

    Apparently, Clinton didn't follow the narrative certain concerned parties have written for her.  It might take them a while to "get over it".  We should be patient with them as they deal with their disappointment.

    I'll give them until August.  That should be plenty of time.

    It's strange (5.00 / 10) (#23)
    by Steve M on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:25:46 AM EST
    What kind of victory is it, where the losers are more energized than the winners?  Clinton supporters are energized and hopeful (telltale sign of a great speech) while Obama supporters are obsessing over that awful, awful woman.

    [ Parent ]
    phyrric? (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by kredwyn on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:28:50 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    No. (5.00 / 0) (#42)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:32:56 AM EST
    She just deprived them of their victory over Those Awful Clintons.

    [ Parent ]
    Excellent point (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by Valhalla on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:32:09 AM EST
    I'm wondering just how much energy Obama's supporters are going to lose when they finally have to drag themselves away from running against Hillary and turn to McCain.  It just won't be the same.

    [ Parent ]
    it WONT be the same (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:39:33 AM EST
    for several reasons.  not least of which is now we see who the MSM really likes most.
    and if they have really been FOR Obama all this time or AGAINST Hillary.
    any bets?

    [ Parent ]
    The Script Has Been Written (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by santarita on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:27:37 PM EST
    Some time this summer, gas prices will start to go down (thanks again to price and market manipulation by the Saudis and the Texas Oil Cartel, the economy will start to rebound (not strongly but enough to improve the stock market numbers and consumer confidence), Iraq and Lebanon will start to explode again and all fingers will point to Iran.  There will be some dramatic UN showdowns.  We'll lose, of course.  

    Obama will make some trivial gaffes that will be blown out of proportion and the media narrative of Military Experience in This Time of Crisis is what is needed now will make McCain look like Gary Cooper in "High Noon" and Obama look like the deputy that comes in after the action is over.

    [ Parent ]

    I am less and less confident that (5.00 / 3) (#129)
    by inclusiveheart on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:56:22 AM EST
    they will shift their attentions away from her to him at all.  The idea of beating her seems to have become a core priniciple of their coalition to such a degree that it makes me wonder if they can sustain their momentum without her to kick around.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah - I just got taken to the woodshed (5.00 / 5) (#59)
    by inclusiveheart on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:36:48 AM EST
    by one of the big boys for suggesting that offering Clinton supporters something to feel good about on the Obama front rather than just telling them to get with the program would be a good idea.

    [ Parent ]
    It's about power (5.00 / 4) (#77)
    by Steve M on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:41:22 AM EST
    They need her, and by extension her supporters, to submit to their authority.  Whether we all get to the same happy place in November is somehow secondary.

    [ Parent ]
    They aren't going to have much power (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by inclusiveheart on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:43:27 AM EST
    if they blow it in November.

    [ Parent ]
    The irony of it is (none / 0) (#195)
    by felizarte on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:40:41 PM EST
    Hillary could be the whitehouse janitor and she will still always have the AUTHORITY OF KNOWLEDGE.  NO ONE can ever take that away from her.   She will always be the GO TO person because she knows what to do.

    She has asked that her supporters be respected.  They won't and can't do that because they would have to start respecting her number one supporter--Bill Clinton.

    [ Parent ]

    You really got DH upset (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by andgarden on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:48:52 AM EST
    Of course, you're right.

    [ Parent ]
    lol (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by inclusiveheart on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:51:58 AM EST
    ... and calling me drunk and delusional too.

    [ Parent ]
    Since I stopped contributing there in March (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by andgarden on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:00:39 PM EST
    I find that I care less and less about what they think. They have no credibility with me anymore.

    [ Parent ]
    I'll tell you a secret... (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by inclusiveheart on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:09:17 PM EST
    While I am not drunk, I think I probably am delusional.  I always believe that Democrats will pull together and it is rarely true.  Worse, I keep trying to make it so.  lol

    [ Parent ]
    I keep remembering what (5.00 / 1) (#228)
    by FlaDemFem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:43:33 PM EST
    Will Rogers said.."I am not a member of an organized political party. I am a Democrat." Sadly, it's not funny any more.

    [ Parent ]
    Bravo Upsetting DH Is A Good Thing IMO n/t (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:17:40 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Like taking candy from a baby. (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:25:28 PM EST
    Hardly an accomplishment. :-)

    [ Parent ]
    DH (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:56:53 PM EST
    went off on me way back in January when I told her that I thought Oprah might help Obama win Illinois and that's about it.

    DH's head about exploded!

    Where's Oprah now?

    [ Parent ]

    Trying To Recoup Her Ratings (5.00 / 2) (#218)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:12:19 PM EST
    which have dropped considerably after endorsing Obama.  

    [ Parent ]
    One thing that I didn't go into because (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by inclusiveheart on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:07:03 PM EST
    the exchange was already enough as it was was the revelation that I had today about the one way that I think Clinton could still win the nomination.  I think that if the Obama camp fails to go after Appalachia and resists courting Clinton voters, they are actually giving her an opening to come back in and legitimately challenge his nomination - which will have been delivered by super delegates who are going to get nervous if he doesn't make any progress on this front.

    If I were in the Obama camp, I'd be planning a full on initiative to go make as many Clinton voters feel valued by his campaign as would be humanly possible right now.  I'd try to do it as quickly and expeditiously as possible so as to narrow her opening.  If Obama plans to wait until after the convention to do this, I think he is at a much greater risk of being challenged at the convention.

    [ Parent ]

    A world without mirrors. (none / 0) (#173)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:21:01 PM EST
    Oy.  I shouldna have read the whole thing.  
    Gave you some recs while I was there.  Good effort.
    (Beyond that, I'd best not comment.)

    [ Parent ]
    It's funny but I read something yesterday (5.00 / 3) (#146)
    by Grace on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:04:28 PM EST
    I can't remember where - they pointed out that Hillary's supporters reminded them of how people reacted to Bill's impeachment.  While Bill was going through the impeachment, his support soared and people rallied around him, no matter how bad the news was.  Instead of his support weakening, it actually grew stronger.  

    Hillary's supporters are much the same.  

    This would work to her advantage in November.  She's been thoroughly vetted.  The proof is in those 18 million votes.  

    [ Parent ]

    She has more super-dels today (none / 0) (#219)
    by Cream City on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:15:00 PM EST
    than she did yesterday -- eight more, according to realclearpolitics.com's delegate count: 1915 yesterday, 1923 today.

    Now that needs some 'splaining, huh?  Could it be a backlash about Uncle Howard and Aunt Nancy's "stern letter"?

    [ Parent ]

    Oops, misread yesterday's counts (none / 0) (#220)
    by Cream City on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:16:25 PM EST
    and categories -- but, still, she's holding her own and down by only one switch, it seems.  Hang in there, Hillary, to August!

    [ Parent ]
    No concession this week (5.00 / 12) (#17)
    by stxabuela on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:23:32 AM EST
    I just got a call from the Clinton campaign to confirm that I will be attending the state convention this weekend as a Clinton delegate.  My answer:  "Absolutely."

    Got the call last night. Also heard that Hillary (5.00 / 4) (#102)
    by Angel on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:46:27 AM EST
    may show up.  Wouldn't that be grand?

    [ Parent ]
    The People Chose Clinton; Party Elders Obama (5.00 / 9) (#20)
    by GeekLove08 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:24:26 AM EST
    Even after the media and superdelegates, rushing to endorse Obama before the polls closed, tried to suppress voter turnout, Clinton won South Dakota by 10 points, a state Obama was expected to win by double digits, yet no superdelegate (from S. Dakota) endorsed her?

        Stephanie Herseth Sandlin endorsed Barack Obama
        Tim P. Johnson endorsed Barack Obama
        Jack Billion endorsed Barack Obama
        Nicholas Nemec endorsed Barack Obama
        Sharon Stroschein endorsed Barack Obama
        Tom Daschle endorsed Barack Obama

        Cheryl Champman is currently Undeclared

    Show me again what democracy looks like?
    According to ABC:

        Clinton: 17,802,300
        Obama: 17,501,751

    Update: Tim Johnson may keep his promise to endorse the winner of South Dakota. This is why we do not have a nominee until the convention.

    I believe Donna Brazile said back in February that she would quit the Democratic party if Superdelegates decide the race.  I'd happily show her the door.

    (For links click here)

    BINGO! (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Radiowalla on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:44:13 AM EST
    I nominate this as Best Post of the Week!

    [ Parent ]
    ABC Pulled a DNC and (none / 0) (#31)
    by GeekLove08 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:28:50 AM EST
    took some votes away from Clinton.  hmm.  

    Earlier this morning, when I looked at ABC's site, they had Clinton's popular vote including Florida and Michigan at 17,802,300.  Now it is 17,802,135.

    How can she have less votes than earlier?
    http://abcnews.go.com/politics

    [ Parent ]

    They asked (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by cal1942 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:44:14 AM EST
    Carl Levin to do a recount

    [ Parent ]
    As people pointed out here (none / 0) (#66)
    by Y Knot on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:39:13 AM EST
    when Clinton was behind on the popular vote, super delegates are not required to vote the way their state or district votes.

    Personally, I think the creation of the super delegates was a mistake for just this reason, and I strongly support a ground up reformulation of the whole Democratic Party primary process...  but  super delegates were created for precisely this reason... to sway the decision one way or the other in a very tight race.

    And let's be honest, this race is very tight.  I see a lot of people here talking about the will of the people... well Obama and Clinton have gotten an almost identical number of votes a LOT of people want him to be President too.  It could have gone either way, is my point, and that's why we have super delegates.

    Again, I think SD's were a bad solution to this problem, but it's the one we have and the one we have to roll with.  Let's hope Clinton uses some of the clout she's earned this year to change that for the future.

    [ Parent ]

    He said... (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by NWHiker on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:51:45 AM EST
    If I recall correctly these are people who stated that they would vote with their state.

    I don't like the SD system, didn't like it when Clinton had more, really detest it now (I don't like the caucus system either, and I've been saying that since 04).

    Unlike Obama supporters a few months back, I'm certainly not saying that SDs should vote with their district/state/whatever, but if they said they would, then they should.

    One of the things I find the most amusing is people who used to say, after Gore won more votes, that the popular vote was the will of the people and that Bush was an illegitimate president as a result of not winning it, are now saying that, hey! it's the delegates that count and that of course Obama is legitimate, even though more people voted for his opponent.

    Not saying you are doing that, btw.

    [ Parent ]

    That was when (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by cal1942 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:17:15 PM EST
    Obama supporters wanted to petition and coerce SDs to be bound by their state's vote.

    Indeed truemajority.com emailed its members soliciting petition support.

    I unsubscribed.

    What many people on this site believe is that SDs should go with the better candidate.  I don't believe all that many people who are regulars on this site would want to coerce SDs as the Obama camp wanted.  We just want them to think more clearly when making their choice.

    The SDs were created to stop a demogogue or when the people voted a sure BIG loser, like McGovern.

    If the SDs go in the direction the media tells us they're going, they will have become the foolish ones who've supported an unqualified weaker candidate over a qualified sure winner.

    I believe that Sds have been making their decisions so far for any one or more of three reasons:

    Obama has spread a lot of PAC money to SDs, the last I heard a half million more than Clinton.

    Democrats have a long standing fear of the media.  We've seen all too much of that in the past two decades. If the GOP attacks a Democrat and juices up the media, fellow Democrats pile on. Some Democrats piled on Bill Clinton and many others were silent.  Few came to his assistance. When Durbin got into the Nazi dustup, other Democrats piled on, including, indirectly, Barrack Obama. Almost no Democrat rallied to his side.  This phenomenon has been obvious and sickening for some years.  The press hates the Clintons, ergo cowardly Democratic SDs will gladly pile on.

    Some Democrats want to change the constituency of the Democratic Party, foolishly believing that they can shed an old constituency in exchange for a new one. Some of these same Democrats want to abandon the party's standing as a force for activist government. These are the high level Dems who keep talking about a new future for the party.

    SDs don't think like we do. They don't consider whether a candidate would make the best President. They're overriding consideration is their own hides.

    It ain't pretty and it ain't right. It is what it is.


    [ Parent ]

    Anyone watch the McCain speech? (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by sweetthings on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:31:25 AM EST
    Awful. Just awful. Stunningly bad, actually. Even the guys at the Corner can't find much good to say about it.

    I can't help but think that the Straight Talk Express is headed straight for a brick wall.

    I beg to differ.. (none / 0) (#60)
    by TalkRight on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:36:49 AM EST
    The subjects within his speech were highly reconciliatory and almost a wink towards Reagan Democrats, who have always wanted to hear `positive' reasons to vote for him (aside from their utter dislike of Obama).

    For those on Obama's camp, the entire speech appeared "mean and bitter", since they have (naively) expected Republicans to treat their candidate with kid gloves all the way to the White House.

    At the end, McCain seems to have satisfied the former and disturbed the latter, all in a very effective package of "positive aggressiveness", even if his stumbling delivery was a bit `painful' to watch (he needs the same acting coach that trains Obama!).

    The themes that McCain touched upon were definitely the best of the night (in most respects) that gave a clear idea of how this election will fan out if Obama is indeed the nominee of the Democratic Party

    [ Parent ]

    Really? (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Y Knot on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:45:26 AM EST
    I mean, was it me?  Or did McCain's new found "friendship" and "respect" for Senator Clinton seem more than a little bit opportunistic and disingenuous?

    Really?  Pro-Life McCain (who reportedly calls his wife the "c" word in public) is now a friend to women?  I think most women would be smart enough to see through that.

    [ Parent ]

    he is against obama (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by progrocks on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:48:39 AM EST
    and therefore a friend of talkright

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (5.00 / 6) (#120)
    by Steve M on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:52:22 AM EST
    of COURSE it's opportunistic and disingenuous.

    McCain is doing the things that he believes will help him get elected, in this case reaching out to Hillary Clinton's 18 million supporters.  One would assume that anyone seeking the Presidency would look to do the same.

    To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln, if Obama isn't interested in using that army, McCain would be happy to borrow it for a while.

    [ Parent ]

    Of course... (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by NWHiker on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:56:01 AM EST
    Of course McCain is self serving. He sees a whole bunch of voters who got thrown under the bus by Obama and he'll pick them up if he can. Makes total political sense. Remember, there are people out there, as strange at it seems to very liberal me, who are mostly Dem, but so close to the center that it wouldn't take much to push them to the R camp.

    I'll stay firmly under my bus, thank you, I won't vote for either man.

    As for McCain's speech, I just heard excerpts on CNN. I thought it was frigteningly good, actually. Obama sounds like a preacher, which I react very negatively to, McCain sounds reasonable, even when saying things that aren't. Ugh.


    [ Parent ]

    I can't beleive I wrote that. (none / 0) (#138)
    by NWHiker on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:59:16 AM EST
    I wrote "I heard excerpts on CNN". Wow. That was a bold face lie since I don't have TV.

    I heard excepts on NPR.

    I lied, I lied, I lied!

    [ Parent ]

    Clinton and McCain (5.00 / 0) (#162)
    by waldenpond on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:13:58 PM EST
    have been friends for quite awhile.

    [ Parent ]
    Regarding (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Grace on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:23:23 PM EST
    McCain's new found "friendship" and "respect" for Senator Clinton

    McCain has always been friendly with the Clintons (both of them) and has said so on more than one occasion.  In fact, I think it was a couple of years ago when he said Hillary would make a great president.  So, this is hardly something new.  

    [ Parent ]

    Are you serious? (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by sweetthings on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:51:57 AM EST
    It wasn't mean and bitter. It was just plain bad. From almost any standpoint.

    First of all, as you note, his delivery was awful. After Hillary and Obama, both of whom delivered fantastic speeches, McCain literally looked and sounded like a bumbling old man.

    But even from a content perspective, it was bad. Sure, he was reaching out to disaffected Hillary voters, but that's not a very smart move for man who hasn't even shored up his own base. Just about the last thing a Real Red Republican wants to hear is his nominee sucking up to Hillary Clinton. Hillary is loved by Democrats and hated by Republicans for a reason, after all...she's one hell of a progressive fighter. Republicans rightly loathe her for it. So to have McCain, who is already distrusted by much of the Republican base, go out and 'wink at her supporters' is a disaster in the making. Anyone other than McCain could probably get away with it, but McCain doesn't have the trust of the Republican base, and speeches like the one he gave last night sure as heck aren't going to get it for him.

    And finally, McCain put himself forward as a 'change' candidate. That's a stunningly bad judgment call on the part of his campaign. There is simply no way he wins that fight against Obama (or Hillary, for that matter) in this of all years. If he tries to go forward on that theme, he'll be massacred. You don't fight the enemy on their home ground.

    If I were a Republican right now, I'd be very, very scared.

    [ Parent ]

    If I were a Republican right now... (5.00 / 5) (#163)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:13:58 PM EST
    ...I'd be LMAO at the Obama campaign's hamfisted attempts at "party unity" through its continued denigration and demonization of Hillary and her supporters. Reflexively mentioning Roe at every opportunity seems to be the extent of the Obama campaign's plan for unification.

    Hillary has earned the admiration who admire her for her hard work and determination--and that's setting aside the multitude of Republican and indy women who've crossed over to vote for her, and the many more of them who would cross over to vote for her in the general. For all of Obama's talk about post-partisanship, he's still considered, by the majority of conservatives, to be a fringe lefty out of touch with mainstream America. And that's before the GOP 527s get to work on him.

    McCain knows that all he has to do is raise the limbo bar of respect toward Hillary from the knee-length height Obama's kept it for a year to have a chance to woo disaffected Dems.

    [ Parent ]

    whoops... (none / 0) (#165)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:15:22 PM EST
    Second graf should read: "Hillary has earned the admiration of conservatives for her hard work..."

    [ Parent ]
    Relying on Democrats to elect you... (none / 0) (#177)
    by sweetthings on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:23:20 PM EST
    Is a horrible, horrible strategy for a Republican.

    Sure, you try and woo the independents. But only to the extent that you have your base solidified. To say that McCain's base is mushy is an understatement. Heaping praise on Hillary is not likely to improve that situation.

    I have no doubt that McCain and all the 527s are going to lay into Obama with a vengeance. But unless he can seriously up his game, it's not going to matter. The McCain we saw last night will not survive the first debate.

    I'm not saying that we have this thing all wrapped up. McCain has plenty of time to improve, and I suspect he will. I'm certainly not going to take him for granted. But McCain is floundering right now. Hopefully Hillary and Obama can toss him an anvil or two.

    [ Parent ]

    But he's not... (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by NWHiker on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:43:06 PM EST