Saturday Reading and Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:21:13 PM EST
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On Obama, McCain and Robert Stone's Dog Soldiers, a really good diary by Blueness at Daily Kos. I especially like the parts about FISA and criminal law, about how of course we are going to be disappointed in Obama from time to time, but that's no reason not to support him for President.

A few quotes below, but there is much more, so go read the whole thing.

This is an open thread.

Withdrawing from Iraq, establishing universal health care, addressing global warming--each of these goals involves the reduction of suffering. That is why I am a Democrat, and that is why I will vote for Barack Obama.

I will meanwhile no doubt b*tch and moan, if only to myself, about retreats, capitulations, like FISA. But I will also recognize that, at least to me, all the FISA fuss is really about gradations in badness. Because I don't even believe in the FISA court. I work in regular ol' criminal law, and there's far too much secrecy even there. All of it is wrong, all of it serves to frustrate justice, always the powers of secrecy are abused. An entirely secret court? No. I don't think so.

....I will also remind myself that I never once believed that this year, with this Congress, there was ever a prayer of a FISA bill passing without a provision providing for amnesty for the telecommunications industry. ...

Finally, I'll remind myself that I don't even really like the whole idea of "government." Because I'm not really comfortable with someone "representing" me. I'd kinda like to represent myself.

But I work with the system I have. Not the one I dream. So my key is this: who will most work to reduce suffering? Or, to express it in positive terms, who will work most to realize that ageless dream, expressed by Emile Zola through Jean Macquart: "All I ask is a quiet life and happiness and prosperity for all"?

At this time, in this place, the answer to that is the Democrats. Barack Obama. And that is why I am here. I am a dog soldier for Democrats.

Regarding Robert Stone's Dog Soldiers, I've watched the movie, Who'll Stop the Rain, a million times -- it's one of my all time favorites.

The film opens in Saigon at the height of the Vietnam War.

John Converse (Michael Moriarty), a disillusioned war correspondent, approaches Ray Hicks (Nick Nolte), a merchant marine sailor and acquaintance of Converse's from back in the US, for help in smuggling a large quantity of heroin from Vietnam to San Francisco, where he will exchange the drugs for payment with Converse's wife Marge (Tuesday Weld), who (unbeknownst to Converse and Hicks) has become addicted to dilaudid.

When Hicks discovers that he is being followed by thugs connected either to Converse or his suppliers, he goes on the run with Marge and the heroin, and is eventually pursued by the corrupt DEA agent (Anthony Zerbe) who initially set the deal in motion. As Marge is separated from her supply of prescription drugs, she experiences withdrawal, and Hicks decides to help her wean off her dilaudid addiction by using the heroin. Hicks also attempts to find another buyer for the heroin before his pursuers can catch up to him.

Movie trailer here.

Again, this is an open thread.

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Saturday Reading and Open Thread | 114 comments (114 topical)

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Open thread? Time to talk food! (5.00 / 1) (#1)
by MarkL on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:23:30 PM EST

I mentioned that I was interested in learning to cook Indian food. Well, I went to the international market owned by an Indian guy, bought a few spices and ghee, and mentioned that I was interested in learning to cook Indian food. It turns out he has classes on Indian cooking 2 days a week!
I"m psyched. The first one is on Monday.

Madhur Jaffrey (5.00 / 0) (#91)
by gyrfalcon on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:04:29 PM EST

One of my very, very few regrets about moving out to the country was being cut off from good Indian restaurants. An extremely good beginning cookbook is a slim large-size paperback by Madhur Jaffrey called "Simple Indian Cookery." There's a pretty good range of stuff in it, meat and vegetarian, and she sticks to a relatively small number of spices while giving examples of different techniques.

For anybody who wants good fresh basic spices and doesn't live near an Indian grocery (I'd stay away from supermarket versions of these spices since they don't usually have a quick enough turnover and get stale), www.penzeys.com carries most of the basics super-fresh.


: Thanks. I appreciate the spice link! (none / 0) (#92)
by MarkL on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:08:38 PM EST

If you like Tai food (none / 0) (#4)
by samtaylor2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:28:11 PM EST

I recommend taking a class. I didn't take the class, but I had a roomate that LOVED tai food and took a quick class and made the best dishes. I guess the basic stuff is REALLY easy to make, so it translates well into a short class (that is what he said, I think, I aws sorta busy eating the food :)


A lot of the stir-fries are easy, i'm sure (none / 0) (#8)
by MarkL on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:33:32 PM EST

I believe the curries require a lengthy preparation---especially the green curry.
For Indian food, I want to learn to make some popular vegetarian dishes, and basic meat curries.
The vegetarian dishes are things like daal, aloo gobi, spinach dishes, etc. I used to get a spinach and turnip combo at a place in Seattle which was very tasty.


: BTW, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan (none / 0) (#13)
by MarkL on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:39:09 PM EST

ate at this restaurant when he was a visitor at the UW some years ago. I saw him eating there but did not know who it was. I found out later from the owner.

: Indian is so good (none / 0) (#33)
by samtaylor2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:07:04 PM EST

My mom had a practice in Yuba City, Ca, which oddly has one of the largest Indian populations outside of India. The indian restaurants sucked, but my mom (as a doctor in the community) was invited to many a indian dinner (and of course as a polite son I had to come along and make sure she was okay :). The food was so good in these homes. It is now hard to go to these Indian restaurants, now that I know what it is supposed to taste like.

There is a company (none / 0) (#99)
by Grace on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 12:14:00 AM EST

that sells the pre-mixed Thai basics in a can (like red curry, green curry, massaman curry, tom yum soup, etc.) and all you have to do is add the meat or fish and cook it. The company is Aroy-D and I've seen their things available on the internet.

The first time I tried their Red Curry, it was on sale. Well, that got me hooked! I can't find it that cheap anymore but it sure is good stuff and easy to make.


Get an ayurvedic cookbook (none / 0) (#7)
by Jeralyn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:31:57 PM EST

and make some mung dahl. Whole Foods will have 5 pound bags of mung beans and rice -- it also has fresh spices you can buy by weight. They last forever.

I got cloves, gram marsala, cardomon, black mustard seeds, cumin seeds, fennel seeds, cinnamon sticks (just off the top of my head.) I use ghee instead of butter all the time.

I'd love to go to an Ayurvedic spa like the Raj (in Iowa of all places) for five days. I'm just waiting for the time and money to go.


: Thanks. DO you have a recommendation (none / 0) (#9)
by MarkL on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:34:41 PM EST

for an ayurvedic cookbook?

: If you can spare the time.. (none / 0) (#31)
by MsExPat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:03:30 PM EST

I'd highly recommend doing an Ayurvedic spa retreat at the source, at a doctor-supervised sanatorium in the state of Kerala, India. Kerala is where the best ayurvedic doctors are trained and where the herbs are grown.
The traditional treatments are very labor-intensive (sometimes there will be four technicians massaging warm oil into your body at once), so spas that do the ayurvedic thing here in the U.S. either adapt the treatments for Westerners, cut corners, or charge big $$$. It can actually work out cheaper to go to India to do this.

Mmmmmm too cool (none / 0) (#10)
by Militarytracy on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:35:34 PM EST

When you having us all over?


In reading where it says we are going to (5.00 / 1) (#3)
by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:28:06 PM EST

be disappointed in obama from time to time; haven't we already. And, why do we have to settle for this in any politician. The more things change, the more they stay the same!

Because you are going (none / 0) (#5)
by samtaylor2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:30:04 PM EST

To be disappointed in anyone that is not yourself, and even if its just yourself, I am sure you will get down on him or her as well.


Disappointments (5.00 / 1) (#60)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:04:42 PM EST

are one thing. Continual disappointment is another. Of course, I'm not disappointed. I knew who Obama was from the start. Lots of kids going to be disillusioned with politics though.


I am not a kid, I am a man (none / 0) (#66)
by samtaylor2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:15:12 PM EST

I am still very excited.


: Didn't (2.00 / 0) (#67)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:17:01 PM EST

say you were. But aren't most of Obama's avid supporters young voters? Or at least that's what we've been sold. Perhaps it isn't true.

That's a pretty patronizing (none / 0) (#94)
by gyrfalcon on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:08:57 PM EST

comment. We are not children here, y'know.

Personally, I'm not disappointed in Obama, I dislike him and disapprove of him and oppose him. He can't possibly disappoint me, he can only once in a while mildly suprise me pleasantly. So far, he hasn't managed to do that much at all.


Hmmm ... (5.00 / 0) (#34)
by Robot Porter on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:11:18 PM EST

Withdrawing from Iraq, establishing universal health care, addressing global warming--each of these goals involves the reduction of suffering.

Problem is that Obama doesn't support UHC, and I think his statements on Iraq clearly suggest he's in favor of maintaining a large occupying force.

Frankly, I'm sick of these arguments that essentially just say, shut up, and get in line. Or: This is about the best we can expect.

If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.

And I'm not falling for arguments like Blueness offers anymore.

I'll vote for Obama, because I think McCain would be worse. But that won't prevent me from shouting from the rooftops when he's wrong, wrong, wrong.

It's amazing to me... (5.00 / 0) (#39)
by Upstart Crow on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:22:55 PM EST

to watch how the Democrats are now twisting themselves into pretzels trying to justify their selection of Obama. They now issue free passes on an hourly basis. The elaborate rationalization TalkLefters are now using used to explain their choices, the party, and Obama would have horrified you all only two short months ago.

I've been out of the country for nearly a month now, and believe me, if you could see this, the contradiction would split you in two.

In my defense (5.00 / 1) (#40)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:24:27 PM EST

this is Jeralyn's post and I utterly and vehemently disagree with it.


: For the record (5.00 / 1) (#42)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:30:01 PM EST

I sign most of my posts "speakign for me only" even though it is obvious that I speak for me only because there are folks that do not get that and when I take an especially harsh position on people, be they pols or journalists, I do not want Jeralyn tainted with my views.
Indeed, there was a post this week that I wrote that even with my disclaimer was considered not appropriate for this site.
Please be advised that all writers at Talk Left do not agree nor do they agree necessarily on what it even appropriate for the site. The stie owner is Jeralyn so she has the final call on that.

You know what is funny to me? (none / 0) (#105)
by Grace on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 03:06:11 AM EST

A lot of the Democrats aren't crazy about Obama... And a lot of the Republicans aren't crazy about McCain...

So, what is the problem with the two of them? Well, for the Republicans, McCain is too Liberal! And for the Democrats, Obama is too Conservative!

Too funny! We have two candidates trying to stake out a position in the middle and say the same things WITHOUT saying the same things!

That said, I think I'm probably going to vote for the Centrist that has a track record versus the one that doesn't.

I don't like Mystery Meat or Grab Bags either. ;-)


Did (5.00 / 2) (#70)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:21:47 PM EST

anybody else see the article in the British papers about how Bill Clinton is extremely angry at Obama for trashing his legacy and calling him a racist? Also, he's the reason they are having problems getting an agreement with Obama. Bill apparently isn't really interested in campaiging for him since he doesn't want to go out on a limb for a candidate that he's sure will lose in Nov. It's interesting political theater. Also, Bill believes that the reason Obama won't win is his inability to attract to working class voters. He says that Obama can't relate to them or connect with them. I think this was pretty much proven during the primaries but the party decided that this inability with certain demographic groups wasn't important.

You got it right. (5.00 / 2) (#81)
by Upstart Crow on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:22:21 PM EST

That's right. The party told women, the elderly, Latinos, etc., that they were no longer wanted. That this would be a "new party." They went under the bus.


: Yes, and now it's all (5.00 / 5) (#85)
by Valhalla on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:41:51 PM EST

'But Bill is messing things up for us!'
Please. Any groups that didn't rush to the Obama campaign was useless to them. It's the biggest case of 'well yeah, then I don't need you!' cr@p I've seen on a national stage. Well, from Democrats, but it may well be high on the all time list too.
Instead of calling the people of WV, KY and PA who voted for Clinton racists and dumb hicks, or claiming will all disingenuiness that they just 'didn't know' him yet, what the Obama campaign should have said is: I believe the people of __ are mistaken about me. I believe I can and will represent their interests as POTUS. And I will work my heart out to prove to them that their concerns are my concerns, their interests are my interests, and their future is my future.
But no, instead under the bus they went.
Even now, with the full-court press on MSM to convince all those women behaving badly by not supporting him (and daring to say so publicly), the talking points go like this: we know you're grieving now, but when you come to your senses you'll smarten up enough to realize how awesome Obama is.
It's still not let's come together, but get on board or else.

Don't blame him at all (5.00 / 1) (#102)
by splashy on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 02:51:09 AM EST

In my opinion, his attitude is totally understandable. In fact, why should he lend his popularity to someone that put him down so badly?

Especially after the way the DNC did it too?

I'm right there with him. I'm going for McKinney if Clinton is not on the ticket.


I don't blame him at all either (none / 0) (#106)
by Grace on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 03:18:31 AM EST

Bill Clinton was one of the strongest supporters of blacks in the 1990s -- and now they throw him under the bus? Give me a break!

If they plan to treat all of their supporters this way, perhaps there is no point in supporting them anymore. Let them do their own thing. You avoid the bus wheels this way, and they are responsible for what they do and they can take all the glory and credit from it without having to share (which appears to be a "big deal" to a certain demographic within the black community).

Personally, I have to wonder what has happened to black/white relations in the USA at this point. I'm not surprised at all that we could potentially have a black president. What surprises me is how bad things between blacks and whites have become in the last year. Sheesh! Here in Southern California, I always thought blacks were my English-speaking compadres!


The diary is simply Ridiculous (5.00 / 1) (#76)
by koshembos on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:54:43 PM EST

It opens with: "Withdrawing from Iraq, establishing universal health care, addressing global warming--each of these goals involves the reduction of suffering. That is why I am a Democrat, and that is why I will vote for Barack Obama."

Obama already hedges his "withdrawal" from Iraq. He always supported Bush anyway.

Obama's health care is anything but universal. One has to be totally absent from the campaign to believe otherwise.

Even McCain talks about addressing global warming. Expect for the Bush regime whose is made of stone age ideas, everyone wants to address global warming.

Is he confusing Obama with someone else?

: I don't like the whole (5.00 / 1) (#82)
by ruffian on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:24:21 PM EST

'reducing suffering' framework. Not that I am pro-suffering or anything, it just isn't the way I would boil down my political choices. Unless I was trying to act like my political choices made me a candidate for sainthood.
In which case maybe I would like the guy with the halo in his ads.

: Confusing, no just totally stupid! (none / 0) (#93)
by RalphB on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:08:52 PM EST

: Health care (none / 0) (#111)
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 06:19:10 AM EST

is under the bus. Kerry has already said nothing will happen there. So in the end it doesn't matter that Obama's plan isn't universal because he's going to do absolutely nothing on that account.

That diary makes me want to ask what Obama (5.00 / 3) (#84)
by MO Blue on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:37:03 PM EST

will be doing on the seventh day.

Universal health care is not what Obama is offering. High ranking Democratic Senators and Reps. have already gone on record that real health care reform will not be a priority any time soon.

Withdrawal from Iraq IMO depends on what your definition of withdrawal is. Will some troops be withdrawn from Iraq? Probably. Will Obama end the occupation of Iraq? Doubt it. Obama has just recently backed off a time line and his position has always been to maintain American troops in Iraq.

I don't like how white people (1.00 / 1) (#35)
by samtaylor2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:12:26 PM EST

Talk about the race card, as though racism doesn't exist.

I don't like this notion that because the Clinton's have worked within the black community, we can't call them out for the nonsense they said.

I personally think the term "race card" is a racist term, especially as it is used here at TL

That is a fair point (5.00 / 1) (#37)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:15:17 PM EST

how do you feel about men discussing the fact there is no sexism?


Hate it (none / 0) (#38)
by samtaylor2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:19:36 PM EST

I think it is disgusting. Though I have no personal experience of of sexism (though I am sure I have benefited from it), seeing my mother excluded and having to fight sexist jerks and perceptions of the boys club of neurosurgery has made me very aware of its terrible effect.


so you would agree that (5.00 / 1) (#41)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:25:50 PM EST

Keith Olbermann's nanming of Katie Couric as a Worst Person in the World was a heinous act?

worthy of round condemnation by progressives? did you npotice if there was such condemnation?


I generally don't watch that (5.00 / 0) (#45)
by samtaylor2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:39:05 PM EST

It is on the same time as Jim Lehrer. I certainly read about it though. It just seemed stupid. I don't call things like that sexist or the equivalent racial thing racist. There just stupid. They get people all wound up (rightfully so), and then we go back, like us watching a car accident, night after night to get angrier and angrier. Same reason liberals watch Oreilly.

I did not notice a lot of condemnation though. Unfortunately, I think at the time there was too much name calling going back and forth. And if you are name calling, one certainly can't admit that your "side" was wrong. It works both ways.

I don't really understand, how this goes back to my comment about the race card though? Do you think that it is okay for people on this site to use these kinds of phrases? Do you think it is hurtful? Do you think that it makes the TL community feel as though it is a place of acceptance and debate?


I didn't know it was offensive. (5.00 / 1) (#56)
by Joan in VA on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:52:19 PM EST

Since it is to you, then I can respect that and refrain from using it. I do think their mostly innocuous statements were spun in a racial way, though. Things were also said about them that were meant to anger Black people. Obama and his supporters are still saying things that are unacceptable to me. Everybody is not a racist because they don't support him or are not thrilled about voting for him. I don't think dividing voters by race is smart at all.


Don't listen to that tiny minority of name callers (5.00 / 0) (#62)
by samtaylor2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:07:08 PM EST

Calling somone a racist for supporting candidate is just stupid. Trully most Obama supporters that I know (and aren't on the Internet), are good people that supported Obama, that if Clinton had won would have voted for her to. This division is 100% created by internet discussion and the lack of humanity that comes through in the typed word. When we communicate in person, or even over the phone, so much of this nonsense goes away.

Now I don't doubt there were racists that supported clinton, but they aren't racists because of CLinton or supporting her(which I don't fault her for taking their support either). They are racists because there dad and mom were and are ass#$#%$s. I wish the root of racism was in supporting Clinton, it would certainly make dealing with it much easier :)


: Thanks. Good to know. (none / 0) (#74)
by Joan in VA on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:37:23 PM EST

I wish us both the end of all "isms". And everyone else, too, of course. : )

Stupid? Not heinous? (none / 0) (#48)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:47:04 PM EST

that to (none / 0) (#52)
by samtaylor2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:49:41 PM EST

: Ok (none / 0) (#54)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:51:20 PM EST

Were you roundly condemning.. (none / 0) (#44)
by Alec82 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:37:33 PM EST

...Katie Couric's bizarre question about Senator Clinton posed to Senator Obama?

As you know, a lot of it is about chemistry. So just now sitting here talking about it, do you think you're chemically compatible? I'm serious. I mean, can you see working with her or does it just make you think, ugh, no.

Journalism at its finest.


Um (5.00 / 0) (#51)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:49:10 PM EST

I spend a lot of time roundly condemning stupidity. That bit of stupidity escaped my notice.

I roundly condemn it.

What your comment has to do with the matter discussed above is not clear to me. If you are equating Couric's stupidity with Olbermann's sexist offensiveness, say it straight out.

I believe one is clearly worse than the other. Perhaps you do not.


Let me ask you this: (none / 0) (#55)
by Alec82 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:51:53 PM EST

Do you believe that would have been the question if the opponent in the primaries had not been Senator Clinton? Would Couric have cared about Obama's "chemical" relationship with Edwards, followed by an "ugh"?

I don't think it would have.


: I think you are wrong (5.00 / 0) (#58)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:53:55 PM EST

Chemistry is not gender related at all.
Team chemistry is one of the most common concepts in sports.
Your comment strikes me as an absurd deflection.

Katie Couric (none / 0) (#103)
by Grace on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 02:54:58 AM EST

appears to be a very nice person but I don't consider her to be a very good journalist. She never asks anything but "softball" and "stupid" questions. She's like the Ellen Degeneres of news -- Ellen never asks anything controversial either. That's why celebrities always want to be on her show.

And don't even get me started on our media. Our media is failing us. There are too few Helen Thomases and too many Katie Courics.


What two white people (5.00 / 0) (#43)
by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:36:04 PM EST

Were talking about how the race card as though racism doesn't exist?


And as far as TL is concerned (5.00 / 0) (#46)
by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:42:50 PM EST

I now know full well that people at TL can slander the Clintons on this issue and my opinion that it is slander is unwelcome.


That is false (none / 0) (#47)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:46:36 PM EST

my comments on this issue (none / 0) (#57)
by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:53:41 PM EST

Have been deleted in the past..

Maybe I'm not supposed to be outraged by the slander and be less volatile about people making unfounded accusations.


Without seeing what was deleted (none / 0) (#59)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:56:51 PM EST

I can not have a comment on what happened there. I can tell you that calling the Clintons racist is verboten here. Always has been.

you and I have a long standing disagreement regarding Bill Clinton's statement about Jesse Jackson the day of the SC primary. I thought it was blatant race baiting and beneath him. You disagree.


I don't know (none / 0) (#65)
by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:13:59 PM EST

look at this as it might relate to a different issue. Its also not acceptable to call obama a liar because that us slander, but maybe saying its my opinion he's a liar, and others disagree is ok.

And that isn't slander.


Obama is a liar (5.00 / 0) (#69)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:19:07 PM EST

So is Clinton. So is McCain. So is everybody to some extent or other.

But pols more so than everyone else. It is part of the job description.


I could have sworn (none / 0) (#72)
by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:29:31 PM EST

We were told calling obama a liar was no longer acceptable.


Well (none / 0) (#87)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:47:12 PM EST

Then I will be banned too.

All pols are liars.


: Geffen too! (none / 0) (#89)
by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:03:04 PM EST

Lets all be banned!

you are right (none / 0) (#100)
by Jeralyn on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 01:41:54 AM EST

we may not call Obama a liar or any other name here. Same rules for everyone.


Really, now... (none / 0) (#98)
by pmj6 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:27:12 PM EST

Poor Jesse Jackson, he won a primary and now nobody can so much as mention this fact...

Now, my memory may be faulty, but I do recall Jesse Jackson himself dismissing the notion Bill's comment was race baiting. Evidently Jackson has joined the ranks of race-baiters...


: Actually, (none / 0) (#104)
by Grace on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 02:58:27 AM EST

I believe Jesse Jackson won several primaries -- not just South Carolina.
I happen to like Jesse Jackson. Barack Obama is no Jesse Jackson.
Jesse Jackson actually stands for things and has "real principles" and you know what he is for and against. Jesse Jackson would never "sell out" for more popularity or anything else. He is what he is.

I don't understand your post? (none / 0) (#49)
by samtaylor2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:47:25 PM EST

Racism exists (none / 0) (#101)
by Grace on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 02:48:29 AM EST

but it isn't solely confined to black/white issues. What about Asians and Hispanics? Indians?

Anymore, it seems like everyone is screaming about "Racism." If you are a white person living in a black community, you are exposed to racism too. It's not a one way street, you know?

I didn't hear the Clinton's say anything I would even vaguely consider to be racist and I believe the black community exposed itself by claiming that some of their best supporters were "racists." I guess every white person who ever fought for equal rights would be a racist in your book, yes?


'as tough racism didn't exist'? (none / 0) (#116)
by RonK Seattle on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 11:24:09 PM EST

Who's talking that way???

But you seem to be talking as if the race card doesn't exist ... when a large share of Living Color sketches were premised on blacks playing the race card, and that was twenty years ago. (Gawd, that made me feel suddenly old.)


MarkL....Please send some of your dishes :) (none / 0) (#2)
by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:26:45 PM EST

Puppy photos (none / 0) (#6)
by Militarytracy on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:31:56 PM EST

Two of our new German Shepherd pups are what is called "blue". Everyone is very fat and happy today, eyes and ears not open yet but the blues are easy to spot.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28097392@N06/?saved=1

excellent (5.00 / 1) (#19)
by Capt Howdy on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:49:02 PM EST

they are gorgeous. the mom too.


: Thanks Capt (none / 0) (#24)
by Militarytracy on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:53:24 PM EST

Had planned on showing her but she is just a tad small. She's pretty spoiled, even without spoilage she has a great go getter personality. I can take her any place, any sort of little kids, she always knows how to handle herself and people situations. She would have been awesome in the ring if only an extra half inch. Big father, looks like good sized babies.

Can't resist a dog mini-thread (5.00 / 3) (#77)
by ruffian on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:57:05 PM EST

Here are my boys. That is an old picture, from our Colorado days. Unfortunately Ruffian, the red one is almost 11 now and has cancer. He is hanging in there so far though. Still wants to do his normal things and run the show.

I was thinking about German Shepards down the road - hopefully way down the road. I have grown to love the breed through friends that have them. Those puppies are tempting!


Great doggy photos (none / 0) (#97)
by Militarytracy on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:52:47 PM EST

Thank you (none / 0) (#112)
by ruffian on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 06:48:15 AM EST

It's easy when I have such good subjects. I used to be more into nature photography, but most everything has a dog in it now ;-)


: I had a golden (none / 0) (#113)
by Capt Howdy on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 01:30:04 PM EST

who looked more like the redder one who lived to be 21 (people years)
they are beautiful.

Awwwww...puppies! (none / 0) (#16)
by Joan in VA on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:45:45 PM EST

I omitted that they are getting a little (none / 0) (#21)
by Militarytracy on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:49:44 PM EST

stinky today ;) photogenic yet old enough to be mildly smelly and too young to bathe :(


ever see my dog? (none / 0) (#27)
by Capt Howdy on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:56:18 PM EST

I have the yin to your yang.
(or vice versa)


Yes you do (none / 0) (#30)
by Militarytracy on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:00:23 PM EST

Great dog. I'm hunting for a photo another a breeder sent me recently of a white that got a championship. Has a black nose. I almost feel out of my seat though since they say a white can't win anything.


Ghost is a mutt (5.00 / 1) (#32)
by Capt Howdy on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:06:41 PM EST

I have no idea what he is a mix of. probably that white belgian shepherd and husky or malamute. I have him because he was a stray hit by a truck in front of my house and left for dead last summer in AR.
amazingly I just noticed that it happened exactly one year ago today.
in the one pic you can see where they had shaved his hip for surgery. he has an aritficial hip. but as you can see he has learned to use it very well.
I have had many dogs. he is a very special creature.


: He is beautiful. (5.00 / 1) (#68)
by suki on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:19:00 PM EST

Bless you for rescuing him.
I've got two canine rescue boys (both mixes) and they are very handsome and smart. I never worry about security with them around.
I adore them.

: Gorgeous boy (5.00 / 1) (#78)
by ruffian on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:01:39 PM EST

So glad he got a good home. Happy one year anniversary of adopting him (I don't want to celebrate him getting hit by a car).

Nice... (none / 0) (#115)
by Thanin on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 11:31:48 PM EST

puppies rock.


I'll give this about 2 minutes before - (none / 0) (#11)
by Veracitor on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:35:39 PM EST

- somebody slams Daily Kos.

Dog Soldiers is one of the best films ever produced about Vietnam. It's one of the few films that I can bring myself to watch repeatedly. The book is even better. But I've never dug so deep as the DKos diarist. Good read.

Thanks for the link, but I'll give this about 2 minutes before a knee-jerk bashing of DKos begins.

Ill give daily kos 2 minutes beforew it slams me (5.00 / 4) (#14)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:40:34 PM EST

and TalkLeft.


BTW (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:43:43 PM EST

The diary reminds me of a different Dogs - Straw Dogs, because it is about a Straw Man.


Are they (5.00 / 1) (#61)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:06:58 PM EST

still talking about you? LOL! It's like the PUMA's I guess. They say they aren't relevant yet can't stop talking about them.

PS. Not advocating for them here. Just using them as a comparison point.


: Denial is a big factor in his race (5.00 / 0) (#80)
by Upstart Crow on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:19:46 PM EST

...from the beginning.

Sorry (none / 0) (#20)
by Jeralyn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:49:40 PM EST

didn't know about any history there....I liked the FISA part because I hate wiretapping. It's all the same to me. Title III is bad enough. I also believe law enforcement -- the FBI -- should stay away from wiretapping as a means of preventing crime and concentrate on catching those responsible after it occurs. Historically, that's been their job, not crime prevention.

And I just love the movie.


Well (none / 0) (#23)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:52:32 PM EST

I think the diary swats at a straw man anyway so no matter who wrote it and promoted it, I would think poorly of it.


it's also why I (none / 0) (#25)
by Jeralyn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:53:58 PM EST

hate calls to "tear down the wall" between the FBI and intelligence agencies so the intelligence agencies can share info they get with the FBI and law enforcement.


Well (5.00 / 2) (#36)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:14:04 PM EST

if Obama calls for it, the message of this diary is that you should sit down and shut up about it.


: I have (none / 0) (#114)
by Jeralyn on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 02:00:37 PM EST

shut up about it because it's hopeless. After the Patriot Act renewal, it was clear there isn't a prayer of reversing this trend for a long, long time. So I stopped writing about it except when there was news. Why batter your head against a wall? Better to focus on issues where change is possible.
Racheting up the fear of terror, like the fear of crime, continues to be a sales job by politicans. There's no change on this front, by Obama or any other Democrat.

I'll bite (none / 0) (#107)
by Grace on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 03:25:20 AM EST

What's wrong with crime prevention?


DKOS (5.00 / 1) (#17)
by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:46:38 PM EST

Has always posted some good research. Their "white paper" issues work has, as far as it exists, been inpeccable and, I'll go so far to say, far exceeds anything that exists in the main stream media.

It's just too bad that the rest of the site if filled with hate.

All it does is reduce the size of the audience that should be reading the good stuff.

It's like I know TUCC does some good work in the community too. You know.


I see a lot of disenchantment (5.00 / 0) (#63)
by BackFromOhio on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:07:18 PM EST

with the "One" and the movement toward the middle over at DKOS in the comments and in some of the recommended diaries.


: Too late (none / 0) (#95)
by gyrfalcon on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:18:40 PM EST

Edit - Dog Soldiers (none / 0) (#12)
by Veracitor on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:37:50 PM EST

As a VN Veteran, I believe Dog Soldiers is one of the best films ever produced about Vietnam - and one of the few films that I can bring myself to watch repeatedly. The book is even better, but I've never dug so deep for analogies as the DKos diarist. Good read.

Thanks for the link, but I'll give this about 2 minutes before a knee-jerk bashing of DKos begins.


I am eagerly awaiting... (none / 0) (#18)
by Marco21 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:48:06 PM EST

the posting of approved comments at Huffpo for the story "Obama Undercuts his Brand" regarding FISA and his moving to the center on issues.

I am still supporting him in the fall, but I confess I want to see the fur fly between the true believers.

Even Sirota is sceptical, finally: (5.00 / 1) (#26)
by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:55:44 PM EST

"American voters tend to reward politicians who take clear stands," said David Sirota, a former Democratic aide on Capitol Hill and author of the new populist-themed book "The Uprising." "When Obama takes these mushy positions, it could speak to a character issue. Voters that don't pay a lot of attention look at one thing: 'Does the guy believe in something?' They may be saying the guy is afraid of his own shadow."

For once (5.00 / 1) (#64)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:09:03 PM EST

I agree with Sirota. He's got a clear reading of the impression voters have with this type of behavior.


So many of these statements (5.00 / 4) (#83)
by ruffian on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:28:24 PM EST

from Obamabloggers this week have elicited the same response in my head, - 'Are you effing kidding me?!? Now they are seeing this?'

And they really do act like it just occurred to them. I think the time release on the kool-aid doses all wore off at once.


: Seriously. (5.00 / 1) (#88)
by Marco21 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:56:27 PM EST

How many have he;d those yellow slow down signs for months now only to be given the finger from their passing cars?

There are so many things to call obama (none / 0) (#75)
by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:44:15 PM EST

out on. Now they are questioning where and how he received donations, etc.. It is interesting reading:

That post appears to be written (none / 0) (#28)
by oculus on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:58:05 PM EST

by "anonymous."


How Many Variations... (none / 0) (#50)
by santarita on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:48:22 PM EST

on the same theme do we need to see? I get it. Just about any democrat is better than any republican these days. And yes, I know that no one is going to be for everything or even if they are for everything that I'm for that they will be able to achieve everything.

I understand the nature of politics and how legislation gets passed and enacted. I understand that Obama will cave in on some things. After all he told us he would when he talked about post-partisanship and consensus. It's what he caves on that is important. At what point do people start to realize that he is no progressive or even liberal? For some that line has already been crossed.

Is he more progressive than McCain? Probably. I think so. But his record is so scant that it is hard to be more definite. Does the fact that he appears to be more progressive than McCain make me enthusiastic about Obama? Nope. But I will vote for him if it is needed to keep McCain out.

How many more variations on the same theme are there?

Actually (5.00 / 1) (#53)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:50:52 PM EST

This is truly the worst variation of it I have yet seen as it creates straw men and false choices.

I think the diary is utterly without merit. I think Jeralyn's approval of it baffling, especially in light of her own post just below on Obama's move to the center.


: I don't think (5.00 / 0) (#79)
by ruffian on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:19:14 PM EST

the 'I don't like government anyway, so what the hell, let's get behind Obama' argument is a real winner.
Color me baffled as well.

To put things in perspective (5.00 / 0) (#73)
by Politalkix on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:36:56 PM EST

The "moderate" and "maverick" version of John McCain unhesitatingly supported the nomination of Robert Bork to the Supreme Court. How much room does it leave progressives when the same Senator has decided that he needs to make a deliberate move to the right? The linked Politico article also indicates that Ted Olsen and Sam Brownback will oversee McCain's selection of judicial nominees. Both are cochairs in McCain's advisory committee on judicial appointments. Ted Olsen, who is a heavyweight in conservative legal circles, represented Bush in the Florida 2000 saga of Bush Vs Gore.


So... (5.00 / 0) (#86)
by santarita on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:44:07 PM EST

if I follow your reasoning correctly, it is clear that McCain will select judges that are unpalatable to people of a progressive bent. Does it ncessarily follow that Obama would not select similar judges? I know that that is the assumption. But what is it that makes you think that Obama, in a fit of post-partisanship, will not select similarly unpalatable judges?


: Past voting records (5.00 / 0) (#90)
by Politalkix on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:31:26 PM EST

on progressive agenda should provide strong clues.

Interesting things you mention (none / 0) (#108)
by Grace on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 03:36:05 AM EST

Look at how many Democrats that are holding Congressional seats who actually would classify as Republicans if they had the "R" besides their name instead of the "D".

They don't hold many, if any, Democratic values -- so why are they Democrats?

Sure beats me...


Many interesting comments re Obama's move to the (none / 0) (#71)
by imhotep on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:22:29 PM EST

right on the Lindorff and Robertson essays on Common Dreams.

Did anyone read about $250 a barrel oil (none / 0) (#96)
by magisterludi on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:22:53 PM EST

in 2009? I just read about it, but the story is a couple of weeks old. I haven't noticed it in blogs or US news.

: If you are waiting for oil to fall (none / 0) (#109)
by Grace on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 03:46:31 AM EST

give it up. It's not going to fall.
The "news" is a couple of years or more behind the real oil/commodity news. Prices are only going to go up.
Just this past week, we bought a small size folding shopping cart to take on trips (on the bus) to get groceries, etc. We're gearing up for $10 a gallon gas since it's already only a few cents from $5 a gallon around here. But the local bus is still a real good deal at 25 cents a trip! :)

Everytime I go to dkos to read (none / 0) (#110)
by Grace on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 04:51:09 AM EST

I lose any interest in doing so after reading the first few posts.

Tonight, the top issue was McCain being out of touch. Yeah, so he's older than Obama. What else is new? Sure he's switched postions over time. He's been in the Senate for over 20 years.

What really kills me are the polls, which all point to one answer:

Example Dkos poll: Did McCain kill his grandfather?

Possible answers:

Yes
Heck yeah.
Is Christmas in December?
Is Halloween in October?
Does the Easter Bunny come at Easter?
Bodaciously Bonzo!
Spectalunarly Montaganous!
Most likely
Yes, for the most part
Probably since all signs point to it
Not a doubt that he did

How can normal people choose to associate themselves with this kind of * utter garbage** (And I say that in the kindest of terms, assuming your garbage is nothing more than used paper plates and excess packaging.) This is like the Democratic version of the Freepers! And I can't stand the Freepers either!!!!

Where is my Democrat party? We were always accepting of people with other opinions... What happened to us?