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Pelosi: Sexism No Big Deal

Nancy Pelosi is fast becoming the most disagraceful Democratic official in Washington, DC. Lynn Sweet reports:

Pelosi does not spend a lot of time worrying about sexist remarks people make. . . . “Is there sexism? Probably so,” said Pelosi. . . . Of course there is sexism, we all know that. I mean but it is a given, it is a given . . .

Pelosi said she wanted to know more facts before she made a final pronouncement about sexism and the Clinton candidacy. "I myself find that I get a tremendous upside from being a woman and I don't spend a lot of time worrying about sexist remarks that people make."

(Emphasis supplied.) Sexism? 'Who cares?' says Nancy Pelosi. What a disgrace.

Speaking for me only

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    To be fair.... (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:34:16 PM EST
    She didn't say sexism is "no big deal", she said she doesn't spend time worrying about sexist remarks.  She also said "of course there is sexism".

    And if that's how she really feels, good for her...she refuses to be a victim or let what some knucklehead says bother her.  Seriously, what's wrong with that?  Does the fact that Pelosi is a woman mean she must sacrifice her personal opinion and go along with the pc pack simply to appease others?

    Heh (5.00 / 6) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:34:56 PM EST
    To be fair, your comment is absurd imo.

    [ Parent ]
    She's obviously (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Salo on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:57:43 PM EST
    talking about the primary.  And downplaying what was obvious in the media.  If the speakership were anything like the lightening rod that the Presidency is, she'd sing a different tune.  

    I suspect that Krma will get her soon enough if the HOUse GOP get their act together in 2010.

    [ Parent ]

    Heh (1.00 / 1) (#62)
    by jondee on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:07:17 PM EST
    Is that why you deleted mine?

    If you're so concerned about sexism, why wasnt the subject ever broached before it became an issue in connection with one of the most powerful women in America?

    I think that's a fair question.

    [ Parent ]

    BTD has written on the subject long before (5.00 / 5) (#71)
    by A little night musing on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:17:48 PM EST
    For example, and heaven help me I've had to go back to the Orange Site for this:

    On Larry Summers' comments on women in science.

    He's no johnny-come-lately to the issue.

    [ Parent ]

    Really, research first, then type (5.00 / 4) (#84)
    by Cream City on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:31:27 PM EST
    as you are way off base re BTD.

    [ Parent ]
    I deleted yours because (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:08:43 PM EST
    I could not insult you in the manner you deserved and deserve now.

    [ Parent ]
    LOL Smile of the Day (none / 0) (#191)
    by Ellie on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 06:15:04 PM EST
    You never disappoint.

    [ Parent ]
    She is saying that she is better off (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:35:45 PM EST
    because she is a woman. That is the context in which she dismisses sexism.

    [ Parent ]
    Pelosi's comment does rather (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Salo on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:01:21 PM EST
    fly in the face of all income data.

    [ Parent ]
    I think you are correct (5.00 / 6) (#37)
    by Gabriel on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:43:37 PM EST
    The only problem is that as a national political figure she doesn't just speak for herself, she is setting an example.

    [ Parent ]
    Looking to politicians.... (4.00 / 2) (#132)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:04:21 PM EST
    as an example is as foolish (or more foolish) as looking to ballplayers as an example.

    Not that I'm sold that she is setting a bad example here, you could argue she is setting a good one...telling women to pay no mind to sexist remarks, to demand your rights, to not allow yourself to be victimized, and to achieve in spite of the obstacles of real sexism in society.  And to use your womanhood to your advantage when possible.

    [ Parent ]

    You're a guy, right? (5.00 / 3) (#207)
    by echinopsia on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 08:17:57 PM EST
    Otherwise maybe you'd realize how absurd this remark is.

    Because ignoring sexist remarks, demanding your rights, refusing to be victimized, to achieve in spite of obstacles and to "use" your womanhood to to your advantage? Might sound easy and obvious.

    Unless you'd ever tried it.

    Sexism is not a problem because women don't do these things. It's a problem because doing them is either impossible or gets you nowhere.

    [ Parent ]

    Sh*t I know it ain't easy.... (none / 0) (#218)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 10:16:55 PM EST
    It ain't easy for the individual in general to get a fair shake, never mind being a woman...or a minority, or probably most of all simply being born into sh*tty circumstances.

    It's not absurd at all to demand your rights and your due...it's our only option.  

    [ Parent ]

    Not that's not what I said (none / 0) (#227)
    by echinopsia on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:01:40 AM EST
    It's not absurd to demand your rights and your due.

    It's absurd to think that's ALL that is necessary.

    I've lost several jobs by asking for my due and demanding my rights.

    [ Parent ]

    Excellent -- that's the point (none / 0) (#112)
    by Cream City on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:26:00 PM EST
    Pelosi apparently misses, too, Gabriel.

    [ Parent ]
    But she is from the same crowd... (4.33 / 6) (#30)
    by ineedalife on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:39:14 PM EST
    that demanded universal outrage if any statement could be imagined to have racial overtones during the primary. She is a hypocrite.

    [ Parent ]
    Yup. (none / 0) (#51)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:58:07 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Here's a clue Nancy (5.00 / 21) (#27)
    by ineedalife on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:35:47 PM EST
    If you can replace every use of "sexism" with the word "racism" in your statement, and you have the same reaction, then you can sleep at night. If, on the other hand, it doesn't sound right, then do something about it.

    Excellent. This is the key. (5.00 / 6) (#43)
    by Cream City on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:47:27 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Spot on (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by zebedee on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:24:31 PM EST
    Spot on! And in this quote from the article:

    "But I do think that being a woman has a positive upside in the campaign, probably offset by more sexism"

    How would this sound?

    "But I do think that being black has a positive upside in the campaign, probably offset by more racism"

    [ Parent ]

    Sounds eerily similar to comments (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by Practically Lactating on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:42:37 PM EST
    by Geraldine Ferraro that provoked such a tizzy.

    [ Parent ]
    Um... (3.00 / 3) (#162)
    by anydemwilldo on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:12:41 PM EST
    Ferraro got in trouble by suggesting that Obama wouldn't be politically competitive unless he was black, and then later for rationalizing white "racial resentment" as something distinct from and more excusable than "racism".  I don't see anything close to an analogue in Pelosi's statement.

    Honestly, I think people need to lay off Nancy Pelosi.  It's fine to criticize her policy, or disagree with her candidate alignment (she was never much a friend of the Clintons).  But this kind of gotcha-ism really isn't warranted.  Let's remember that she, too, is a extraordinary successful woman operating in the same world as Hillary is, and snapped quite a few panes of glass on her way up too.

    [ Parent ]

    shock of the century (5.00 / 4) (#167)
    by dws3665 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:21:34 PM EST
    "Honestly, I think people need to lay off Nancy Pelosi."

    Of course you do.

    Pelosi is an extraordinary woman - by definition, a trailblazer. Which is what makes these comments by here even WORSE, not worthy of being overlooked.

    [ Parent ]

    Um, not exactly... (5.00 / 6) (#190)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 06:10:46 PM EST
    What Ferraro said was:

    "If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman of any color, he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."

    The emphasis is mine.

    See, if Obama had been white, he would have been like all the other white men on the stage, except he would have had a lot less experience, so he would have been a whole lot less intriguing.

    If he has been a woman, he would have been in the same position Hillary was in, regardless of race.

    Ferraro's comments were about this man at this time - it was a contextual frame, not a racial one, and it still amazes me that people chose to take it the way they did.  But then, those same people consistently took things the way they did because it worked for them.

    If we're going with the whole "feet to the fire" meme, there is no reason to lay off Nancy Pelosi, as long as she is speaking on issues that affect the people.

    Nancy Pelosi is the daughter of one mayor of Baltimore, and the sister of another.  She lived and breathed politics, had contacts and a network like nobody's business.  She was not an unknown who had never had entree to the halls of power - regardless of her gender, she started with advantages that other women have not had, and she knows it.

    First female Speaker of the House was an enormous glass pane to break through and with it came obligations - not the least of which was to work to create an environment where sexism is just as abhorrent and politically incorrect as racism - and that means speaking out when boundaries are crossed.  She should have been front and center calling people on their sexism instead of pretending it didn't exist until it was safe to do so without making her candidate look bad.

    [ Parent ]

    Like the "second act" mantra Pelosi uses (5.00 / 4) (#198)
    by lmv on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 07:03:17 PM EST
    She claims this is her second act after staying home to raise her kids.  What she leaves out is that she was a rich, well-connected woman who was seen as the consummate party insider and, of course, a prodigious fundraiser/donor.  

    Pelosi was the heiress apparent for her Congressional seat, a reward for all the work she did for Dems while supposedly just a stay-at-home mom.

    First, how many stay-at-home moms have time, with 5 kids, to work their way up the party volunteer ladder?  The few who are rich and well-connected.

    Second, as a working mom, I'm not sure what to make of this whole "second act" thing.  I'm inspired that Pelosi found a vocation in her mid-forties.  But, I find the whole "I raised my kids THEN did something for me" line to be a little much.  Is she saying working moms like Hillary (cough, cough) are selfish?  I'd like to believe Hillary, and all working moms, are role models for their kids.  That's a win-win in my book.

    [ Parent ]

    This is a brilliant post, Anne! (none / 0) (#225)
    by bridget on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:02:44 AM EST
    "Ferraro's comments were about this man at this time - it was a contextual frame, not a racial one, and it still amazes me that people chose to take it the way they did.  But then, those same people consistently took things the way they did because it worked for them."

    --
    And that is so true. It always amazed me too that nobody pointed that out.

    Shortly after the Ferraro brouhaha Kerry was asked why he thought Obama was the best candidate for the Dems and he said right away "because he is black." His whole comment told how right Ferraro was in pointing out that the country was caught up in the concept. But nobody said a peep about Kerry's statement. I don't have the link but the Kerry comment should be on the net somewhere.

    [ Parent ]

    snapped quite a few panes of glass on her way up (5.00 / 4) (#208)
    by echinopsia on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 08:25:56 PM EST
    And let the shards fall point-down on the ones below her.

    In other words, she made it to her level and pulled up the ladder. Not admirable behavior - rather Republican-like, in fact. "I got mine, scr*w you."

    [ Parent ]

    Lest we forget, this is the Speaker (5.00 / 9) (#32)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:40:36 PM EST
    who stated those pushing her to tie Iraq war funding to a withdrawal deadline were "a distraction."

    It's a given?! (5.00 / 4) (#35)
    by nycstray on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:42:56 PM EST
    Well, gee I wonder why?

    Thanks for the support there, Nancy.

    But make sure (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by LoisInCo on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:44:37 PM EST
    to vote for her sweeties, because she has D next to her name.
    Fish, plankton, sea greens and protein from the sea.
    what Nancy really meant (5.00 / 14) (#44)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:47:54 PM EST
    "I don't spend a lot of time worrying about sexist remarks that people make"
    about Hillary.

    I've got mine sayeth Nancy Pelosi (5.00 / 4) (#48)
    by davnee on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:53:42 PM EST
    I made it to the top.  No need to look back. No need to lend a helping hand.  Let others make the most of that tremendous upside of being a woman.  

    What's the point of electing women to high office if they refuse to look out for other women?  I'm not asking for preferential treatment or single issue agendas.  I'm just looking for women to watch each other's backs, which at a minimum should mean sheathing your own knife when a sister is fighting the good fight.

    This is why EMILY's List is off my list now (5.00 / 9) (#56)
    by Cream City on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:00:40 PM EST
    as I have seen my own Congresswoman who benefited from it as well as too many other women forget why they got the E-List endorsement: not just for being born with vaginas but to use the brains they were born with, and the money we give them, to improve the situation and status for the majority in this country.

    So I give only to individuals now, and only after they pass my rather stringent test.

    [ Parent ]

    "that tremendous upside (5.00 / 9) (#59)
    by A little night musing on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:03:43 PM EST
    ... of being a woman." Heh. Yup, indeedy.

    This reminds me of something that happened way back at the end of January. I was at a faculty development event where, as part of an exercise (don't ask) we were asked to line up against one wall or the other or somewhere in between depending on how much we agreed or disagreed with certain statements. One of those statements was, "Hillary Clinton is taking unfair advantage in the campaign from the fact that she is a woman." Well, pretty much we all lined up on the "disagree" side of that one. And one man there said what needed to be said to that one: "If being a  woman is such an all-fired advantage, how come we have 43 presidents and every single one of them is a man?"

    (I was glad he said it so one of us "gals" didn't have to.)

    [ Parent ]

    Yes, I do wish she would enlighten us (5.00 / 4) (#69)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:16:36 PM EST
    on that point. How as it helped her? Does she think she is using her feminine wiles to get her way?  If that is true than she is sure asking for all the wrong things.

    [ Parent ]
    Allow me to translate: (5.00 / 4) (#94)
    by dws3665 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:02:53 PM EST
    Lyrical Nancy:

    I'm a girl, and by me that's only great!
    I am proud that my silhouette is curvy,
    That I walk with a sweet and girlish gait
    With my hips kind of swivelly and swervy.

    I adore being dressed in something frilly
    When my date comes to get me at my place.
    Out I go with my Joe or John or Billy,
    Like a filly who is ready for the race!

    When I have a brand new hairdo
    With my eyelashes all in curl,
    I float as the clouds on air do,
    I enjoy being a girl!

    (thank you, Rogers & Hammerstein)

    [ Parent ]

    Wonderful anecdote, a little night . . . (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Cream City on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:29:27 PM EST
    and bless the one guy in the room willing to speak up.  Maybe a few more got it.  But only a few. . . .

    And you have my sympathies for what sounds like one of those awful sessions with "facilitators" whom admins inflict on faculty.  Ugh.  And what always burns me is that the admins pay enormous amounts to bring in these outsiders who do what many faculty can do -- and are doing in classrooms at measely salaries.

    Ah, summer.  Life without administrators. :-)

    [ Parent ]

    If she benefits from being a woman (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by catfish on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:21:41 PM EST
    that advantage will go away if there are more women. If she's nothing special, if there are women everywhere, where would she be? Sexism, as are a lot of "isms" is largely unconscious. Women, feminists, can be quite sexist.

    All outgroups do this to some extent. I was guilty of this myself, you want to be one of the guys, you sort of are one of the guys, you don't want to be shrill, so you pile onto the "whiney" women who are vocal enough to denounce sexism.

    [ Parent ]

    Disgraceful (5.00 / 8) (#63)
    by nell on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:09:14 PM EST
    There are no other words to describe Nancy Pelosi's comments today. She sets such a poor, poor example for young women.

    My first experience with sexism was in high school. I had earned the right to go compete at a national debate conference in a far away city through my past performances. A few weeks into the preparations, the coach pulled me aside and told me he didn't think it was in my best interests to go. When I demanded to know why, he said it was apparent to him that the male student leading the delegation had a crush on me and that I would be a distraction to him. I would be a distraction to him...not the other way around, he agreed, I would not be distracted by the male student...and yet I was the one who was not allowed to go...

    Thank goodness I had female role models around who encouraged me to raise he*l, which resulted in a note getting put in his file. When he pulled the same crap again a few years later with another female student, he lost his position as coach.

    But according to Nancy, I shouldn't have been bothered, not in the slightest...

    What the.....?!?!? (5.00 / 9) (#64)
    by kempis on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:10:42 PM EST
    Pelosi said she wanted to know more facts before she made a final pronouncement about sexism and the Clinton candidacy. "I myself find that I get a tremendous upside from being a woman and I don't spend a lot of time worrying about sexist remarks that people make."

    Oh. My. God.

    What is it with Pelosi and Dean, who also claimed to be in the dark about sexism in the media--until the DAY AFTER Hillary suspended her campaign.

    These people make me so glad I changed my party registration, but they're making it so hard to support their (hand-picked) nominee.

    I do not know what the Democratic party stands for any more.

    Pelosi has said a lot of stupid things this year (5.00 / 5) (#65)
    by SoCalLiberal on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:11:29 PM EST
    I think she has a hatred of Hillary Clinton.  But as to why that is?  I can't exactly understand.  I mean, Hillary doesn't hate her.  

    Now there are some though, the blood thirsty Hillary haters who point to Nancy Pelosi as "a woman who made it on her own".  I have a problem with this.  I was a big Pelosi fan prior to the primaries but even I would acknowledge the fallacy in believing that all of Pelosi's acheivements came on her own.  She came from the most politically powerful family in Baltimore.  She used the connections to foist herself to the top.  She also married wealthy and used that money to get to where she is today.  And I don't have a problem with it mind you but I think it's unfair to try and pretend that Hillary is a woman who simply got ahead because of her husband and Pelosi is a completely self made woman.

    They're both politicians (5.00 / 2) (#164)
    by anydemwilldo on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:16:06 PM EST
    I doubt either "hates" the other, in an emotional sense.  But clearly they are rivals, and while they align on most policy concerns they tend to make very different decisions as to staff selection, candidate support, etc... That sort of thing happens all the time in politics (c.f. Kennedy vs. Johnson) and isn't particularly notable.

    Trying to pass it off as hate, and especially trying to interpret it as one-sided, seems overly simplistic to me.

    [ Parent ]

    pelosi hatred? (2.00 / 1) (#222)
    by kelsweet on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 11:59:55 PM EST
    Pelosi is scared to death of Hillary Clinton's power, and knows she doesn't hold a candle to Clinton.... IMHO.

    [ Parent ]
    to think this person is third in line to the (5.00 / 5) (#68)
    by kimsaw on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:16:29 PM EST
    presidency is frightening. She's an embarrassment to the women who shoulders she stands on. Her comment is far from heroic. She's unprincipled in the art of governance, she heads the pack of  leadership delinquents. She's does not stand as a beacon of hope or change in the Democratic Party, and apparently is ready to throw a female comrade under the bus if necessary.  She leads a party that does not do what's right on behalf of the nation's people but what is politically convenient and expeditious.

    The victimization as sited by Pelosi  and the inability to scientifically speak to the impact of sexism in Clinton's run is nothing more than political doublespeak or just outright stupidity, neither bodes well as an example of women in politics. First, she claims to be a victim, and its an accepted given, yet she needs to know the  facts before she can speak to the impact of sexism in Clinton's run. Where has this woman been for the last year and a half?

    There's only one thing I can say with leadership like this, my friends, we are in deep, deep trouble.

    It's not the remarks so much... (5.00 / 3) (#73)
    by goldberry on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:19:36 PM EST
    ... the de facto barriers to higher positions.  Throughout the campaign, Clinton was held to a MUCH higher standard.  If she had to win a state, she had to win it by more than 20 points or she was done for.  If she had to win a debate, she had to reduce Obama to a burning cinder rhetorically or she was an utter failure.  
    I think one of the most insulting things was when someone proposed that she could run for governor of NY to get executive experience before she re-ran for president.  Did anyone make the same observation about Obama?  No.  How come he doesn't need executive experience?  Better yet, why is it he requires no experience at all?  


    you are joking, right? (4.33 / 3) (#144)
    by tben on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:32:31 PM EST
    Obama's lack of experience has been one of the constant themes of this campaign season - the focus of all his opponents criticism, and the obvious centerpiece of much of the media coverage. How can you possibly deny that?

    Someone suggested Hillary run for gov? My god, the idea that Obama should do two terms in Sprinfield then come back in 2016 was heard constantly.

    [ Parent ]

    um... (5.00 / 3) (#169)
    by dws3665 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:23:21 PM EST
    what media criticism of Obama? heard constantly where exactly? CNN? MSNBC?

    I don't think you were watching the same primary season the rest of the country was.

    [ Parent ]

    It's really pretty amazing (5.00 / 10) (#77)
    by frankly0 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:25:16 PM EST
    to see what so many rabid Obama supporters like Pelosi have reduced themselves to in order to justify their behavior on his behalf.

    The obvious question of the Democratic leadership after Clinton's treatment was: why didn't you speak out against the sexism and misogyny?

    Answer: because sexism and misogyny are no big deal.

    People keep saying that McCain is so terrible on policy that no one should vote for him. But why should anyone vote for Democrats like these, who only undermine the relatively smallish progress we have made over the decades on sexism?

    Genuine progressives have no party anymore. That's the simple truth.

    Why would it be so terrible to punish the Democratic Party into being a decent party -- a party a progressive might support -- by denying them our votes?

    I'll tell you one thing that will certainly get the Democratic Party to listen to our complaints: play an important role -- if merely the passive one of not going out to vote for Obama -- in bringing the sneering, sexism-tolerating, Obama wing of the Party down in November 2008. That's a lesson they will certainly understand.

    And the real problem is that it is probably the only lesson they will understand. Indeed, if they win, having gladly tolerated and/or encouraged sexism and misogyny, as well as having sneered at the working class voter, the exact opposite lesson will be learned: that they can engage in all the sexism, misogyny, and trashing of the working class their hearts might ever desire. And I think we can see that their hearts desire a really big pile of it.

    Here's the thing - when it would have (5.00 / 8) (#85)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:33:18 PM EST
    been meaningful to speak out, it also would perhaps have helped Clinton and undermined Obama.  Now that the dust is settling, how can Pelosi now come forward and decry the sexism without looking craven and hypocritical?

    Obama had the same problem - sort of - with respect to the Bill Clinton presidency.  To say nice things about it might have attached to his opponent, so he wither never said anything and pretended we had no president those 8 years, or, when he could, he lumped Bill in with the errors of past, Republican presidents.

    What Nanacy doesn't seem to get is that the issue is not whether someone is personally offended; this isn't something that can, or should, be handled with one of those weaselly apologies where one person is sorry about something only if someone else was offended or hurt by it - it places all the burden on others, and none on the "perpetrator."  I really really hate that.

    If no one had stood up for racial equality, and had taken the Pelosi position that it was all just much ado about nothing, how much progress on that front does anyone think there would have been in the last 50 years?

    As a woman, I am willing to stand up for myself, to speak out on my own behalf and on behalf of others, to call people on their sexism.  I am not willing to elect people to legislative positions, who have the ability to move us forward in areas that affect women, but who choose to pretend that nothing needs to be done.  There is something very insidious about the attitude that if we have to complain about something, that must mean we don't see ourselves as equal - so we should just shut up and get over ourselves.

    Pelosi is playing politics, as usual, but what she said should not be taken as closing the subject.  Lately some of the stuff that comes out of Pelosi's mouth is all too reminiscent of the horribly snide and cutting things Barbara Bush used to say.

    Perhaps this is because (5.00 / 4) (#87)
    by Alien Abductee on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:35:12 PM EST
    there are no Pelosi nutcrackers, no Elizabeth Dole nutcrackers, no Christie Todd Whitman nutcrackers, no Kathleen Sibelius nutcrackers, no Ann Richards nutcrackers, no Geraldine Ferarro nutcrackers, no Dianne Feinstein nutcrackers, no Kay Bailey Hutchison nutcrackers...

    Hillary alone seems to bring out these vicious, blatant sexist assaults while other women in politics - not a shrinking violet among them - are subject to whatever persistent sexism is free-floating in society but not to the utter vitriol and unreasoning assaults she is.

    I suggest this is a result more of the RW's propaganda campaign against her for the past 15 years that has created such high negatives for her. This negativity that has been created around her then gives free rein to the latent sexism that wouldn't be thrown at anyone else, even if it continues to operate in the background and influence voting behavior in quiet ways. Sexism is used as a weapon against her because the negativity is so profound that it gives license that is not freely expressed against other women.

    Not taking account of this reality about HRC and sexism risks causing people to dismiss, as Pelosi does, the whole idea that sexism persists, because it is far more virulent against HRC in its public expression than it is against other women. In short, I suppose what I am saying is that Hillary is not the best focal point in a discussion of sexism because she is a unique example because of her history and this distorts the discussion of how sexism actually operates against the rest of us.

    Actually that makes her a great focus (5.00 / 3) (#96)
    by davnee on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:04:16 PM EST
    Because she loosens the inhibitions enough to see the sexism and misogyny that bubbles just under the surface come gushing forth.  And I would suggest that, even given right wing framing, these inhibitions are not particularly strong.  Look at how easily alleged progressives bit on the right wing framing of HRC in order to release their inner sexist.  It wasn't just R's attacking her.  Better to see the beast in all its ugliness, mouth foaming and teeth gnashing, than to let it politely continue to wear grandma's bedclothes while it eats us.

    Hillary has done us all a great service.  Her struggle showed us the depth of the vitriol and the extent of the dismissal.  We can fein blindness no longer.

    [ Parent ]

    She may bring raw sexism into relief (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Alien Abductee on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:26:39 PM EST
    but she isn't representative of the situation for the rest of us. The almost cartoon-like sexism against her is easier to expose and refute because it's so outrageous and over the top. To say that's what women generally face is simply objectively not true. It's much more subtle and institutionalized. The things that were said about Hillary on TV would, I think, not be thrown at anyone else. So using her as an example to discuss the broader problems of sexism has limited usefulness and can be ultimately misleading if one is not very careful. My opinion anyway.

    [ Parent ]
    She removes any pretense of great progress (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by davnee on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:45:48 PM EST
    You may be right that HRC brought forth an extreme reaction.  And I'd say that extreme reaction was partly a result of her history and partly a result of being the first woman to be so seriously close to becoming POTUS.  But would we better off without this instructive example?  How can you have a productive discussion of sexism if those in the debate can lapse into denial about the scope and depth of the problem.  What's misleading about what happened to HRC?  That sexism is even more insidious in everyday life because it is muted by a pc veneer of politeness?  Perhaps.    But I sense that that is not necessarily what you are driving at.

    [ Parent ]
    The instructiveness of (none / 0) (#141)
    by Alien Abductee on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:26:25 PM EST
    her example doesn't extend much further than herself is my point.

    Pelosi, for example didn't suffer a sexist assault when she became Speaker. She's demonized by the RW, but for being a California liberal, and the attacks on her for that aren't particularly genderized that I've noticed, though I'm sure there are examples of that among the lunatic right wing. When Geraldine Ferraro ran with Mondale there was no campaign of vicious public sexism directed at her, especially not on TV.

    While those examples aren't POTUS, they're both very powerful positions, so if what you say is true - that the threat to the male hold on power is what brought it out - they should have suffered the same kind of sexist assault Hillary did. But they didn't. Which makes me reiterate my original point, that sexism against Hillary is a unique case and not representative of sexism as the rest of us experience it. It's not that there's a "pc veneer of politeness" on it - it's just of a completely different order. In Hillary's case it's something calculated and used against her to get to a goal, political power.

    I'm not sure much of the sexism that went on against Hillary was anything but that calculated form, a weapon against someone powerful. Not much like the garden-variety sexism that tends to be more unconscious and can be more effectively dealt with by educating and raising consciousness on the issue rather than simply hitting back.

    [ Parent ]

    Absurd. (5.00 / 1) (#209)
    by echinopsia on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 08:46:56 PM EST
    When Geraldine Ferraro ran with Mondale there was no campaign of vicious public sexism directed at her, especially not on TV.

    There most certainly was. How can you ignore "Fritz & T!tz"? Did you forget GHWB's remarks about their debate? Barbara Bush calling her a "rhymes with witch"?

    Did you sleep through all that? The sexism in the 1984 campaign was disgusting - though not as bad as in this one.

    [ Parent ]

    I remember Barbara Bush's (none / 0) (#214)
    by Alien Abductee on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 08:55:07 PM EST
    comment, not the other. It was hardly some media onslaught.

    [ Parent ]
    I think your argument (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by frankly0 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:05:14 PM EST
    just doesn't give due consideration to the fact that Hillary, given her background and who she is, does little more than give people cover to express their inner sexism and misogyny, and to use it to downgrade "undesirable" women (that is, women standing in the way of someone's ambition).

    These people allow themselves to be as blatant in their hatred and ugliness toward women in Hillary's case because she offers them a culturally/politically tolerated excuse. But virtually any woman will have things about them that could be trumped up into excuses for such treatment. Maybe the woman aspiring for the corner office seems too ambitious -- that would be the excuse. Or she sometimes doesn't listen to people -- that would be the excuse. Or she demoted an underling whom she deemed wasn't performing well -- that would be the excuse. Excuses can always be manufactured for the particular woman in question.

    And the problem, among other things, is that, once the genie is out of the bottle, it can't easily be put back. Our culture now has a clear example in which sexism and misogyny is openly tolerated, even by so-called progressives. If the right wing tolerates it, and progressives tolerate it, whose left of importance not to tolerate it?

    The next time a woman is treated with utter disrespect, how can Pelosi possess the moral authority to speak up on her behalf? How can Howard Dean? How can the Democratic Party?

    [ Parent ]

    Well, as I said above (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Alien Abductee on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:41:57 PM EST
    other women in politics don't get that treatment that Hillary does. She got it before she ran for POTUS. She had the unfortunate fate of being the spouse of a Dem president at a time when movement conservatism was at its most fresh and virulent, and that's left its scars in ways that permit things to be said about her that aren't being said about other powerful women.

    For Hillary, it's about the demonization rather than about sexism. You think that everything that that demonization allows is what really lurks beneath polite society when it comes to women? I disagree. I don't think women are hated the way HIllary is by so many people. She's far more the victim of propaganda. The sexism is incidental, not a real expression of sexism in society broadly. It's unique to her political persona. Not that it can't or won't be cultivated for another woman in future - I'm sure it will. My point is just that this is different from sexism per se and shouldn't be confused with it.

    [ Parent ]

    There's so much wrong this (5.00 / 4) (#165)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:17:04 PM EST
    that it's hard to know where to begin.

    The 'unfortunate fate of being the spouse of a Dem president' shows sexism already.

    It's possible to demonize without sexism - many examples exist. She was demonized but she was also the victim of sexism.

    Is calling a woman a b!tch on nationwide TV sexist or not?

    Is selling Hillary nutcrackers all over the place sexist or not?

    Is mocking her speeches as 'looking like every man's ex-wife in front of the courtroom' sexist or not?

    To argue that Hillary was not the victim of sexism is unbelievable at this point. Maybe I should just take the standard tack around here:  Are you a Republican?

    [ Parent ]

    I'd just like to point out here (none / 0) (#219)
    by Alien Abductee on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 10:47:20 PM EST
    that someone saw fit to delete my response to Dr Molly and leave this comment with its slur as if unanswered. It wasn't. And the slur is left undeleted. If you're going to sterilize comments for civility you should try a little harder to be fair.

    [ Parent ]
    I Look Forward To Seeing (none / 0) (#228)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:25:33 AM EST
    Your continued fight for women's rights by challenging sexism and misogyny whenever it rears its ugly head. Particularly, I am eager to see you defend Michelle Obama, the future first lady.

    [ Parent ]
    Other women in politics (5.00 / 6) (#176)
    by frankly0 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:53:03 PM EST
    don't get the treatment Hillary does in no small measure because they lack her prominence. They aren't going to have nutcrackers built to ridicule and dehumanize them because they aren't famous enough.

    Really, your rationalizations are getting out of hand.

    How can you pretend that, historically, the hatred that has been directed Hillary's way has not been based quite directly on misogyny? How was it that Rush Limbaugh and others demonized her in the first instance? As a "Feminazi". She was excoriated because she said once upon a time that she didn't just want to sit home making cookies. Everything about the history of hatred toward Hillary had to do with her image as a woman who would not conform to reactionary standards of how a woman should behave. Acting as though that has nothing to do with the nature and depth of Hillary hatred is absurd and inexcusable.

    In short, for over 16 years now, Hillary has represented a particular type of woman -- the modern, "uppity" woman who thinks she can be out in the world every bit as much as a man -- that all kinds of people in society have resented or openly hated. It's been obvious how much the Rush Limbaughs of the world have hated her. But what has become apparent is how many on the so-called progressive side fall right in with this sentiment.

    Really, can you be honest about that history? Or are you just going to find another way to deflect that fact?

    [ Parent ]

    Many women are prominent (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by Alien Abductee on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 05:22:37 PM EST
    I think sexism as it applies to most of us arises from attitudes and habits that people can be educated out of. What Hillary has been subjected to isn't sexism so much as a political assault that's used whatever comes to hand, including sexist language and stereotypes. But it isn't arising out of sexism but out of political opposition, and can only keep being used because the 90's propaganda campaign against her was so successful, because those attitudes were more prevalent then and she was breaking barriers.

    If it were really still about sexism Pelosi and all those other prominent women in politics I mentioned above would be getting something similar, though maybe less intense, but they're not. That's not rationalization, it's just trying to see what this really is and what it isn't.

    If I had to boil down my thoughts on this to something pretty stark, I'd say what Hillary was hit with needs to be pushed back by hitting back hard politically. More real, organic sexism is better dealt with through educating people about the implications of their old habits of relating and old prejudices.

    [ Parent ]

    Well said. (5.00 / 0) (#181)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 05:26:53 PM EST
    What Hillary has been subjected to isn't sexism so much as a political assault that's used whatever comes to hand, including sexist language and stereotypes. But it isn't arising out of sexism but out of political opposition
    although I don't think some here will have open enough minds to consider what you write.

    [ Parent ]
    I think what it comes down to (none / 0) (#187)
    by Alien Abductee on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 05:45:59 PM EST
    is that while I understand BTD's campaign on this as a political effort, it shouldn't be mistaken for work on the real problem. I think shaming is effective in the short term in that it can silence, but only education and consciousness raising can affect the root of the problem. And education is advanced more by sharing of perspectives than by the sarcasm and push-back attacks that are useful politically.

    [ Parent ]
    political opposition? (none / 0) (#192)
    by DJ on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 06:18:34 PM EST
    are you kidding me?  I have seen lots of political opposition but never what I saw displayed by the political pundits.  For you to deny the unbelievable hatred, sexist, vile behavior that I saw brings your "open mind" in to serious question.  I am not naive enough to believe that it is not a part of our world and do not get overly concerned when I see it to a much smaller extent..which I do often living in Texas.  But what happened to the first viable female candidate for president was disgusting.

    I can imagine that there were many who saw black children being taunted and worse as they went to schools in Arkansas, who watched people being smeared and worse because they were fighting for racial equality, who listened to the attempts of racist politicians  excuse these actions, the nastiness that came from their mouths...I am sure there where many who excused that behavior.   But for many and I hope for most of us...actually seeing the blatant behavior makes it insulting to be told it is not really there.  There has been a serious line that has been crossed, we see it,  and things will change.

    [ Parent ]

    Hmmm (none / 0) (#196)
    by Alien Abductee on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 06:33:52 PM EST
    There's no excusing or denying going on, at least not from me, and if you think that's what I'm arguing here you don't understand what I'm saying. I'm trying to draw distinctions that can be useful going forward.

    [ Parent ]
    Sexism for the sake of sexism (none / 0) (#203)
    by Fabian on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 07:38:07 PM EST
    versus
    Sexism for the sake of political/professional/whatever advantage.

    When you put it that way, it really doesn't make one dime's worth of difference to me.  It's just as wrong no matter who does, or why it's done or whether it is done in public or private.

    [ Parent ]

    Well, too me there is a large difference (none / 0) (#215)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 08:56:50 PM EST
    between sexism and misogyny, and using gender-specific language to express your dislike of someone.

    iow, if I dislike you because of your politics/personality/favorite sports team/whatever and use gender-specific language to express that dislike, that is much different, imo, than disliking you because of your gender.

    I'm not saying using gender-specific language to express negative feelings toward someone is totally okey dokey, I'm saying it is not always the same thing as sexism and misogyny.

    True there probably are some nutters that dislike Hillary only because of her gender, and likewise some nutters that like her only because of her gender, but in the main I don't think that's the case.


    [ Parent ]

    You completely refuse (5.00 / 2) (#206)
    by frankly0 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 08:16:14 PM EST
    to address the core of my point.

    Hillary hatred has always been based in misogyny, going back to its primeval origins in Rush Limbaugh's trash radio talk about her.

    She was, in the right wing radio media, always the "Feminazi", the "ballbuster", the "dyke". It was always built around that core of misogyny. It doesn't matter in the slightest that they were doing it to serve some larger political purpose. The fact is, they tied her to the ugliest possible stereotypes of women, stereotypes that they knew would resonate in the larger culture. Those stereotypes of women and of her as an icon of a certain type of modern woman have everything to do with Hillary hatred. It started with the right wing, but spread, quite deliberately, into the larger culture. It's not hard to see this, if you have a mind to do so.

    And there is no women in the US who has taken on the iconic status Hillary has had to since 1992, and pretending that because other women haven't endured the level of open misogyny and sexism that Hillary has that means that sexism isn't the real or basic issue behind how Hillary was treated is mindless and, I think, well less than honest. She, as the icon of the modern, "uppity" woman, is inherently sui generis -- but what befalls her represents a far, far larger problem precisely because of who and what she stands for.

    I wonder why you can't bring yourself to acknowledge these obvious points.

    It couldn't be that you are so desperate to make sure women aren't upset at how she was treated that they might not want to support Obama, would it? Because that's the only explanation I can come up with for how you so steadfastly look the other way when I make this point as plain as day right in front of your face.

    [ Parent ]

    I don't refuse to address it (none / 0) (#211)
    by Alien Abductee on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 08:52:19 PM EST
    In fact I agree with it. But you don't seem to want to address my point - that whatever misogyny-based Hillary bashing goes on, it really has very little to do with the actual current state of sexism toward women in general, as shown by the fact that other powerful women don't get anything like the same treatment. It's a holdover, a relic, that only still works because she's got such high negatives. To base thinking about the current state of sexism in society on her unique situation is to mislead yourself.

    As part of a political argument on Hillary's behalf, fine, but as a condemnation of sexism per se, well, I don't think it's all that applicable to anyone else's situation, because society has moved on for most, leaving only the more stubbornly institutionalized and less obvious forms of sexism operative against most women, not the awful blatant cr*p we saw in the media this primary season. Hence Pelosi's shrug.

    [ Parent ]

    That Generalization Is Silly (none / 0) (#229)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:38:45 AM EST
    And you cannot possibly mean it.

    Hillary hatred has always been based in misogyny, going back to its primeval origins in Rush Limbaugh's trash radio talk about her.

    Many women never forgave Hillary for not dumping Bill when he cheated on her. Hardly misogny.  Many who in intensely disliked Bill Clinton see Hillary as more of the same, and dislike her as a package deal, again hardly misogyny.

    I am sure that there are also many who hate Hillary for being too conservative, and voting for the AUMF. But for whatever reason you have made a silly general statement that does not help those who are working to raise awareness by calling attention to actual cases of sexism and misogyny.

    [ Parent ]

    Women don't complain. Nothing changes. (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by dianem on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:08:40 PM EST
    Minorities complain whenever there is an attack. People in the media know that if they make a comment that is racist then there is a good chance they will lose their job, or at the very least have to suffer the indignity of being the target of a negative campaign. Women don't complain. We just shrug and go along with it. The media knows that they can get away with it. It's not Pelosi's fault - society tells her in myriad ways that she should not complain. Stand tall, don't whine, don't fight. Just do the best you can.

    Of course, Pelosi also represents one of the more liberal districts in the nation. I'm not sure what effect that has on her perception of sexism.

    You must have missed the articles in Ms. (5.00 / 0) (#116)
    by Cream City on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:30:13 PM EST
    on role modeling and mentoring.  Pelosi did, too.

    Too bad she hoovers so badly (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Fabian on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:34:15 PM EST
    at it.

    All the excitement I was feeling at seeing the first female SOTH evaporated when she said that impeachment was off the table.

    She's going up against the Bush administration who repeatedly used the meme "all options are on the table" and she does what?  I hope that's her epitaph in the history books.

    "Getting the Job She Wanted" (5.00 / 3) (#118)
    by creeper on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:35:05 PM EST
    and when she got it she forgot every single woman who helped her get there.

    If nobody ever complained, women and blacks would still not be voting.

    One female four-star general and a female Speaker don't even begin to demonstrate equality.  

    You don't have a clue.

    and because she rose above it (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by dws3665 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:37:47 PM EST
    that means that everyone else should have to put up with it, too?

    to characterize her behavior on this issue as "deciding not to complain" is hare-brained. she is not just "deciding not to complain," she is invalidating complaint.

    you've come a long way, baby.

    Could she have meant she ignores it and (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by samtaylor2 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:54:41 PM EST
    has to work harder.  Now I am not speaking from a female perspective, but growig up both my parents (black dad and white mom), said don't care what they say about you just work harder and be smarter and you will get where you want.   Could this be the spirit of what she is saying, and if so I think it is actually a good message.  Though obviously while we are working harder, our elected officials need to try to tear down the walls that are making us have to work harder.

    And people wonder why there is a PUMA phenomenon? (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:08:00 PM EST


    Unipolar depression is not feeling down (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by samtaylor2 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:13:22 PM EST
    That is completely uncalled for.  Depression is a serious health concern that costs many lives each year, costs billions of dollars, and effects huge percentages of our population.  Thinking about depression differently then a broken leg shows your ignorance in regards to the human body and healthcare in general.

    I don't think a full accounting (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Alec82 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:29:38 PM EST
    ...is possible right now.  I don't really find Pelosi's words evil or remarkable or objectionable.  

     I'm interested in reading, in a year or so, a complete, relatively objective account of the role of gender (and race) in the primaries, but until then my own observations:

     1. It would be difficult to divorce sexism from much Clinton bashing.  Nevertheless, there are criticisms of Senator Clinton that are entirely unrelated to her gender.  

     2.  It seems that many prominent politicians get where they are through name recognition and connections.  Senator Clinton, it seems fair to say, would not have had the chance to run for the senate (in a state where she had not lived, no less) without it.  This also applies to Pelosi.  Doesn't really apply to Senator Boxer, who has been a very consistent liberal voice and did it largely on her own. So on this point, color me a bit skeptical.

     I'm not denying Senator Clinton's accomplishments or the presence of sexism in the media and the US in general.  But I doubt anyone here is really prepared to have an honest discussion about it, or to objectively evaluate what Pelosi said.  If you want to demonize her for her many shortcomings as a politician, I say feel free.  But I don't think she deserves it here.

     

    I find it enormously interesting that (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 06:20:21 PM EST
    race was such a hot button issue that it need only be tangentially part of something for there to be immediate, harsh, blistering and strident condemnations of the person who allegedly said it, and anyone and everyone associated with that person back to Adam and Eve - any attempt to have a reasonable discussion or offer context was met with a "talk to the hand" response.  The only people allowed to speak were the ones "offended" and the rest of us were told we just didn't understand.

    But when we are talking sexism, oh - let's not have that discussion now...let's wait a year or two so we can be ever so objective.  Let's not bruise any feelings or offend any tender sensibilities by discussing the perniciousness of sexism in all areas of our lives.  That's just so unseemly.

    We'll just agree that there is sexism, but we'll look the other way until it's not likely to have any impact on a political campaign.  Heaven forfend.

    When I read comments like yours, I just want to throw up at the mind-numbing obtuseness.

    [ Parent ]

    Democratic leader Pelosi (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by cawaltz on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:41:13 PM EST
    Is it any wonder that I can make he statement that the emocratic party has ceded it's right to claim the moral high road regarding women's issues BTD?

    Just because it "personally" does not effect Nancy Pelosi means that there is no reason to worry about the millions of women that it does effect andthe impact it has on their lives and consequently on the lives of their families? Self involved much Nancy?

    btd posted the link to the entire article (5.00 / 0) (#153)
    by DFLer on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:53:32 PM EST
    Readers have the responsibility to go there and read the whole thing themselves.

    He was not hiding anything as brainerd implied.

    BTD speaks (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by lentinel on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:09:21 PM EST
    for a lot of us when he keeps this issue in focus.

    Agreed 100% (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by lmv on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 07:12:20 PM EST
    BTD posted about this all primary season.  

    His post about another dream dying when Hillary conceded brought me to tears.

    BTD gets it in a way no other commentator seems to, male or female.  And, that goes to show you that compassion does not favor either gender.

    [ Parent ]

    Mdm Speaker's Lost Her Marbles (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by JimWash08 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 05:09:15 PM EST
    I'm sorry, but as that rude as that may be, she really has.

    My respect for her totally diminished as soon as as she was hinting at Hillary to pack it up, and then she really got to me when she flatly said that the Dream Ticket will not, and should not happen.

    Nevermind that she refused to take W. and his cronies on after taking the House seat; I was willing to close an eye, hoping she would wield her powers and lead more substantive efforts with her fellow Congressmen.

    Now, throwing Hillary under the bus in the Spring wasn't enough for her. She yanks Sen. Clinton, slaps her around and then tosses her right back under with these absurd remarks.

    This lady, and all those who were complicit in the DNC's efforts to extinguish Hillary's AND Bill's reputations and service to this country, should be paid their dues. She, Dean, Reid and their good friends need to re-learn how to earn their respect and keep.

    BTD, this on going series of yours.... (5.00 / 2) (#186)
    by masslib on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 05:43:23 PM EST
    should really be collected and sold as a book.  This needs to be brought out into the light and I don't think anyone else has done this so succinctly.  

    You have no idea how I appreciate this.  

    With all the tremendous (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by masslib on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 05:52:35 PM EST
    upside of being women, do we really need the Democrats?  I mean, equal pay, reproductive rights, combatting domestic violence, sure those things seem important but arn't they really a distraction from the major upsides of being women?

    I reject (5.00 / 2) (#200)
    by mkevinf on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 07:23:00 PM EST
    the notion that Pelosi's stance has anything to do with being a Boomer.  Maybe that's because I'm so tired of hearing my generation trashed in sweeping generalizations that would not stand the scrutiny o a fair analysis of what we've done and what we're doing, which runs a gamut that's as long as we are numerous.
    Part of what galls me about Obama is his page turning, contemptuously rejecting the foundation which my generation - Hillary's generation - helped to build so that even a man such as he is could succeed in America.  And I'm not referring to his race when I say a "man such as he is".

    Sounds like she doesn't want anything (4.92 / 13) (#6)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:26:07 PM EST
    to intrude on her "beautiful mind".

    Beautifully said (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:27:28 PM EST
    and it helped me create a beautiful place in my own mind where my image of Nancy Pelosi must reside.  Thank you

    [ Parent ]
    Colbert should do a segment. (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Salo on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:55:10 PM EST
    he doesn't see gender anymore you see just like he doesn't see race. "Feminism is dead, B**ches!"

    [ Parent ]
    There's something about the Democratic (4.90 / 11) (#1)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:21:35 PM EST
    House leadership that just isn't quite right.

    No kidding friend (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:25:43 PM EST
    what is it though?  You are good at reading through the hunting blinds.......what is up with them?

    [ Parent ]
    My hundred-miles-away read (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:28:46 PM EST
    is that there are lots of people there who are better at raising money than coming up with political strategy.

    [ Parent ]