home

Dropping a Google Bomb on McCain

What do you think about Google bombing John McCain?

A political blogger is using a technique known as "Google bombing" to enlist the aid of fellow partisan bloggers to boost the search engine rankings of nine news stories that reflect poorly on Republican presidential candidate John McCain. ... The articles [Chris] Bowers is using range from a story about McCain voting to filibuster a minimum wage hike to an item about the Senate passing an expanded GI bill despite opposition from McCain.

Bowers on the ethics of Google bombing:

"We're just using McCain's own words -- everything we are targeting are things McCain has done or said himself. There's no bias at all. There are no opinion pieces. They are all news pieces that quote McCain himself. Obviously, it is manipulating, but search engines are not public forums and unless you act to use them for your own benefit, your opponent's information is going to get out there. This is the sort of 'do it yourself' activism that is very much in line with the tone of this campaign," Bowers said.

If you want to play, this link will take you to the nine article links.

< Epstein On Habeas And Boumediene | Searching For Leadership on Torturegate >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Then I guess they won't mind when the (5.00 / 7) (#1)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:11:04 PM EST
    google bomb is dropped on obama...

    Just read that Brokaw (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by pie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:42:19 PM EST
    will host MTP through the election.

    I hope he can do a better job.

    Parent

    I think he is a fairly objective journalist and (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 07:17:05 PM EST
    he did have the good sense to tell KO to tone it down over Hillary.

    Parent
    are you kidding? (none / 0) (#131)
    by skippybkroo on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:19:50 PM EST
    my stoner roadie brother could do a better job.

    Parent
    No kidding (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 08:11:38 PM EST
    It sounds like something a bunch of high schoolers would do...AKA: Obama supporters.

    My guess is that the people who would be searching for those negative articles are the same people who Google bomb McCain.

    Parent

    If those are his real words... (none / 0) (#111)
    by Thanin on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:27:39 PM EST
    then thats what matters.  This particular method isnt offensive.

    Parent
    Of course they would mind that... (none / 0) (#110)
    by Thanin on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:25:35 PM EST
    theyre democrats voting against McSame.  Why wouldnt they mind that?

    Parent
    The "tone" of this campaign is (5.00 / 8) (#2)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:11:14 PM EST
    rancid, and reeks of underhanded trolls who want to pass themselves off as democrats. This "change" that got this presumptive nominee to this point, is not the change for the good, but the change for the even worse than we've seen. Are you a good witch or a bad witch???

    And Bowers put it out there for all to (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by nycstray on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:23:47 PM EST
    see, eh?  ;)

    Their heads would be exploding if it were happening to Obama . . .

    Parent

    The plan is super genius ... (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by Ellie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:49:32 PM EST
    ... by keeping the plan only among pro-Obama blogs, no Repugs will ever see it -- or know what hit them!

    The intellectually puny enemy, meanwhile, will be forced to present a balanced, perhaps even flattering picture of Obama. AaaaaHAHAHAHA!

    This is the kind of cunning that keeps the Dems adding to the unequaled political power they've enjoyed for the last half century or so!  

    Parent

    Except that a lot of the "trolls"... (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by dianem on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:27:58 PM EST
    ..ARE Democrats. And some are honest Republicans. The hatred has grown to the point where otherwise good people feel justified in doing things that are wrong in order to counter the things that the bad guys are doing.

    Would you commit murder? What about killing somebody who was about to commit a murder? What if you knew for an absolute fact that they would kill somebody if you didn't take action first? Spreading lies and misrepresenting factual information is far subtler than murder, and it's far easier to justify.

    Parent

    I hate to invoke (5.00 / 5) (#44)
    by pie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:15:40 PM EST
    the followers of a certain infamous leader, but some of the people on the internet have lost all sense of perspective.

    They're being given a sense of importance that has no basis in reality.

    Parent

    Ha! And we thought we had (4.75 / 4) (#47)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:17:36 PM EST
    another King George to contend with. We have a new king on the horizon, and no George Wash. to lead the charge.

    Parent
    yeah (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by skippybkroo on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:23:20 PM EST
    spreading lies and misrepresenting factual information is far subtler than murder, and it's far easier to justify.  

    yeah, cuz it's like, not as bad as actually killing someone.  other than that, it's exactly the same as murder.

    Parent

    Really, it's not like they're gonna use it for war (none / 0) (#159)
    by Ellie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:10:45 PM EST
    ... or otherwise disinform the public about atrocities our government is committing in our name.

    It's GOOGLE ferchrissakes.

    Parent

    Not being a guru of the net and (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:13:09 PM EST
    google, could one "delete" or make disappear any info one doesn't want be seen by others?

    Is it both juvenile and ineffective? (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by datadriven on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:16:06 PM EST


    The new democrats have arrived (5.00 / 10) (#8)
    by Prabhata on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:19:25 PM EST
    to the old place the Republicans used to own.  When the Republicans did it, I new that the head was rotten.  Nothing new with the Obama people.  Come to think, some of those who supported Bush, must now be supporting Obama.

    I knew. (none / 0) (#9)
    by Prabhata on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:20:07 PM EST
    Prabhata, whether you new or you knew, you (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 07:50:36 PM EST
    are correct.  This is like 2000 and 2004 all over, except some of these "supposed" democrats have invaded republican bodies....be afraid, very afraid.

    Parent
    It's lying (5.00 / 7) (#13)
    by nellre on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:24:24 PM EST
    By manipulating the ranking intentionally they lie to every googler.

    It seems to me that the ranking (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:26:00 PM EST
    is something Obama knows something about as it wasn't that long ago that no matter what polically I googled, Obama-related material came up 1st..

    Parent
    No, it's not lying (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by flyerhawk on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:52:52 PM EST
    There is no inherent "truth" to Google page rankings and businesses do this EVERY DAY.

    Parent
    Well if businesses do it every day (5.00 / 7) (#34)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:05:09 PM EST
    then it must be ok.  Whew.

    Parent
    Businesses (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by kredwyn on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:12:30 PM EST
    incorporate meta tags into their HTML to try and generate a higher ranking in the list as a way to promote their company.

    This is different...in motive and means.

    Parent

    Not just businesses; smart non-profits (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by Cream City on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 07:03:10 PM EST
    that hire smart webmasters do it, too.  I was on the board of one, a historical society, that hired a guy who knew the metatag game -- and got the society's site on Google's top ten in no time, which also merited the society some nationwide publicity.

    And that, I think, is a good thing for us all.  It's just adapting the new technology to Wendell Holmes' "marketplace of ideas" -- just as lobbyists are not inherently awful, as many are working for worthy groups.  It's the purpose to which such tactics are put that is the question, not the tactics themselves.

    Parent

    Whatever you say (2.33 / 3) (#46)
    by flyerhawk on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:16:57 PM EST
    I think this is incredibly minor but I'm glad to see that the Obamaphobes have found a way to make this a negative for Obama.

    Parent
    It's a negative (4.75 / 4) (#50)
    by pie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:19:12 PM EST
    for his supporters.

    Like you.

    Parent

    Just in general (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by IzikLA on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:11:57 PM EST
    It's a negative.  That's the issue I have.  This kind of manipulation, to me, crosses the line and is no better than a biased media (which, of course, we do already have, but that's another story).

    I supported Clinton and will be voting for Obama but I just think this is bad, not bad on Obama, just a bad practice in general.  I would hope that his die-hard supporters do not support this tactic.  Obama has said plenty of things with his own words that I wouldn't want being thrust to the top of the news each and every day.  

    Parent

    Once again, why aren't we being (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:24:38 PM EST
    bombarded with why we "should" vote one way and why we "should not" vote another way w/o all this negativity. I know the answer(s), but telling me what's wrong with one, doesn't educate me on what's right about the other!

    Bowers is right that (5.00 / 8) (#17)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:30:16 PM EST
    it "is very much in line with the tone of this campaign."  That is, the juvenile antics of spoiled children.

    It's not that hard to do, so it's not that hard to counteract.  And it's not that hard to set up an Obama-bomb either.

    I have no idea how much play this will get, but if I knew nothing of either candidate, it would not make me lean toward the one whose supporters were doing it.  Some folks are lucky that there's no maturity test for voting.

    P.S. It doesn't seem to be working, either.

    Jr High Activism (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:34:28 PM EST
    Heh heh.  

    Heh.

    Considering that all Bowers is doing is asking (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by halstoon on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:41:02 PM EST
    for help highlighting the things McCain least wants voters to know--meaning things he'll either lie about or flip-flop on--I don't see what is wrong with it. Everything being linked to is an article about John McCain's own words. What's so devious about that?

    When you can't link to what makes you (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:47:57 PM EST
    a better candidate and you resort to links that put down the other guy, that says something about you!

    Parent
    I am fine with it, too. (4.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Marco21 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:41:30 PM EST
    it's going to happen to Obama, also. Of course, then it will be linked to a Wright speech or some "he's a secret muslim" screed and not anything he's actually said, but when you open that door, it's hell to close.

    Parent
    Wonder what Google thinks of this sabatage? (5.00 / 0) (#24)
    by befuddledvoter on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:42:20 PM EST
    Here is the basis for ranking; number of hits is only one variable:

    PageRank Explained

    PageRank relies on the uniquely democratic nature of the web by using its vast link structure as an indicator of an individual page's value. In essence, Google interprets a link from page A to page B as a vote, by page A, for page B. But, Google looks at considerably more than the sheer volume of votes, or links a page receives; for example, it also analyzes the page that casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves "important" weigh more heavily and help to make other pages "important." Using these and other factors, Google provides its views on pages' relative importance.

    Of course, important pages mean nothing to you if they don't match your query. So, Google combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines dozens of aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query.

    Integrity
    Google's complex automated methods make human tampering with our search results extremely difficult. And though we may run relevant ads above and next to our results, Google does not sell placement within the results themselves (i.e., no one can buy a particular or higher placement).  


    Since Bowers has oh so (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by tree on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 06:02:56 PM EST
    helpfully told Google exactly what articles he and his cohorts are attempting to Google bomb, I suspect that the ploy won't work in the long run, and he certainly won't attain his goal by Labor Day. Supreme waste of time for little result, other than an internet circle J^&#.

     (And BTW, 2 of those McCain "news articles" are blog entries, not news, and another one is a piece by Keith Olbermann's producer.)

    Couldn't these people be doing something useful with their time, like calling their Congresspeople on FISA?

    Parent

    I've seen people try to (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Fabian on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:46:19 PM EST
    google bomb before.  I've been largely unimpressed.

    If you are competent at searches, you'll know how to make your search parameters as specific and unique as possible.  I'm not always successful on the first try, but I do know how to use the "not(x,y,z)" parameters to weed unwanted results out.

    If you know what you are searching for, you won't waste time on clearly unwanted results.

    The most effective net hack would be to figure out how to rig the Top Stories that every web news page displays.  (I have to click past a Top Stories page every time I want to read my email.)

    You just noticed it? (5.00 / 5) (#28)
    by karen for Clinton on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:50:49 PM EST
    One of the first times I saw the obamatroll army in action was in February or so on the New York Times Caucus blog.  No matter what the subject of the news item was they all posted about the "peter paul" non-sense case repeatedly and when told it was trash they insisted we google it.

    Although I had long ago vetted that story and found many articles that summed it up as pure crapola, I was stunned to now find the top 10 google searches all led to kos tpm huff etc. stories on how it was under investigation and the Clinton's would fry any day now.

    Even the wiki page on Paul was temporarily overrided and altered to show him as a saint who would finally out the evil clinton's for having Cher appear for a fundraiser...

    Paul's video was a huge hit too.  You tube is highly manipulated and always has been by OB.

    So stuff him, in the old fashioned sense of the word.  And all his hype professed as hope.

    It will of course be used again and again as it always has been by the paid blogger army.

    Delete my comment above if it doesn't fit your movement.  It was just one of the seemingly endless schemes that swayed public opinion.

    Strong arm Chicago Tactics 101, he is a pro.

       

    I don't have much of (5.00 / 5) (#35)
    by dk on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:05:44 PM EST
    an opinion on google bombing per se, though I do have an opinion of the whole demonization campaign against McCain that the A-list bloggers are running (which includes google bombing).

    The problem, of course, is that A-list bloggers have zero (let me repeat, zero) credibility.  I mean, these are the guys who spent months demonizing Hillary, and we all know that most of what they wrote, or at least encouraged, was garbage.  So, now they come along and demonize John McCain.  For all I know, some or most of what they write or link to (or get atop a google search list) is accurate.  But now, as a thinking person, I have to be highly skeptical of it, because I know these people have absolutely no regard for the truth.

    The best, and probably only way, to remove these people from the public discourse is to ignore them.

    Yep. (5.00 / 5) (#38)
    by pie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:08:54 PM EST
    That's it.  It's not the google-bomb crap.  Who cares.

    They don't just want to defeat the person; they want to destroy the person.

    It's unacceptable.

    Parent

    That's true (5.00 / 9) (#41)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:12:16 PM EST
    After the way everything Clinton did and said was distorted, I don't even believe things about McCain that I think are likely true without checking on sources.

    And I don't like McCain, and am not going to vote for him.  But I'll be d*mned if I'll let the pathetic excuse we have for 'news' media or a bunch of blankety-blank bloggers influence my opinion of him (or anyone else).

    Parent

    The bloggers, the media, and all of (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:15:49 PM EST
    the blankety-blank influential people are part of both campaigns and are manipulated, massaged and carassed to carry stories they way the campaigns want. When it gets down and even dirtier than we've seen before (think Karl Rove), then it is, imo, out of control. You win by building yourself up, while cutting the other down (if you must). Obama is not even doing the former.

    Parent
    I rarely see (5.00 / 4) (#69)
    by lentinel on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:49:15 PM EST
    a story about Obama touting anything that he has to say that is at all progressive.

    He is either evasive or silent.

    The Obama camp and its' supporters in the blogosphere rarely if ever printed anything positive about Obama. They just parroted the right-wing's hatred of Hillary Clinton. After all, she ruffled a lot of feathers by trying to get us healthcare in the early '90s.

    So now, it appears that they hope to win the next phrase by dumping on McCain. They're going after his age, for one thing.
    Bad move. I'd vote for several septuagenarians, - Ralph Nader and Helen Thomas to mention but two - before I'd go for Mr. O.

    I know Nader has been portrayed as the boogie man by the left - "he lost us the election" - but all the democrats had to do was adopt some of his progressive ideas. What Nader is saying is mainstream Democrat. Pro Union. Pro Universal Health Care. Pro civil liberties. Pro DEMOCRACY.  It is the party that has lost its' way.

    Helen Thomas has the sharpest mind in the press corps - and she was born in 1920! I'd vote for her in a minute.

    So, they better look for something else.

    Parent

    Not to mention that most Nader voters of 2000 (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by rooge04 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:03:09 PM EST
    I'm familiar with are firmly in the Obama-supporter camp and were from the get-go.  

    Parent
    I lean Green but I liked Gore in 2000 (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by Ellie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:05:38 PM EST
    ... and since he's an eco-stud, he had my vote.

    HRC won me over this year (clearly) and Obama's such a genuine phony, I can't imagine any thinking Green going for him.

    Obligatory Nader Mention: Dems have no business blaming Nader for 2000. They won the election and could have stood their lazy Senate asses up in Congress. If I resent Nader for anything it's for unfairly dissing my dream vintage ride: the Corvair. I intend to have a '63 convertable just to have around and LOOK at once I have have enough dough to buy one and have spousie whacked to eliminate the problem of him touching it.

    (I think it was a later model that Nader made infamous in Unsafe at Any Speed, and it was cleared of the ugly smears).

    Parent

    So far, it appears Obama hopes to win by (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Grace on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:14:40 PM EST
    negative campaigning.  At least it appears that way from what I am seeing.  Where are all of Obama's plans for the future?  What does he plan to do?  

    I'm not interested in hearing how he is different from Bush & McCain anymore.  I want to hear about what he plans to do that is new and different.  

    For example, tell me about you, Barack Obama.  I don't need to know anymore about George Bush or John McCain.  For an old guy, it appears that John McCain has a lot of ideas.  Do you have any ideas?  You are so much younger, I would expect to see twice as many ideas!  So why don't you start telling us about them?!  

    <sigh>

    I guess a girl can dream....  ;-)      

    Parent

    Yes. (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by Fabian on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:56:32 PM EST
    The new fashion on the Left Blogs is to find a new reason to hate John and Cindy McCain every day.

    I wouldn't mind so much if they stuck to the facts.  But they careen from "John McCain was damaged from torture and is unfit to lead." to " John McCain is GWB's evil twin." to "John McCain is the personification of the worst of the GOP." plus "Cindy McCain is a bunch of sexist stereotypes and was a drug addict too!".

    Few facts, lots of speculation and plenty of nastiness does not lead me to trust or like the people and blogs that spew that.

    I got all that from DK, BTW.  I have no idea what other sites are doing.

    Parent

    It's interesting (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 06:03:35 PM EST
    or maybe ironic is a better word, that they've driven off almost all the people they would hope to persuade that McCain is the new Big Evil.

    So even if they kept to rational arguments to vote against McCain, no one's there to hear them, aside from a few brave souls who drop in to see whatever the latest mischief is.

    Parent

    Don't forget his teeth (5.00 / 3) (#82)
    by tree on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 06:09:13 PM EST
    We can't possibly vote for a man with yellow teeth. This kind of cr@p has got to be the height of mass marketing propaganda meets inane politics!

    Parent
    Not new politics. Modernized politics. (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by davnee on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:14:58 PM EST
    The Obama campaign has never been about new politics.  It's just taking the same old sleazy politics and modernizing its practice using the evolving technology of the 21st century.  Innovative, yes.  Inspirational, no.


    OMG. (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by pie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:21:17 PM EST
    I didn't say the Clinton campaign did it. I said I would not be shocked if they did.

    Wow.  Just wow.

    What the heck is wrong (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by flyerhawk on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:39:01 PM EST
    with Molly's comment?

    Have you convinced yourself that this is some truly immoral act?

    Parent

    Do you have to ask? (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:55:02 PM EST
    Right (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by rilkefan on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:59:08 PM EST
    You could more simply say it's begging the question.

    In my view there's nothing wrong with a little announced google bomb, esp. when it's pointing to reputable information.  Maybe someday it will be frowned on generally, but the evil of the day is sufficient.

    Parent

    If only (5.00 / 4) (#53)
    by pie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:24:55 PM EST
    the democrats fought for something, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    I came to believe Clinton would fight.

    Obama is a huge disappointment, especially after observing the actions of his congressional supporters.

    Ugh.

    Democrats really are becoming the (5.00 / 7) (#67)
    by masslib on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:47:42 PM EST
    mirror image of Republicans.  The campaign finance cheerleading when Obama broke faith with his promise to use public funds, and now the no problem with search engine optimization.  We will likely never again in our lifetimes see presidential candidates utilize public funds.  Publically financed elections are dead.  For those who think, this is great.  The ends justifies the means.  Wrong.  The "people" are not funding Obama, just "some people".  We are looking at decades of presidents being selected by a the so-called donor class.  Be careful what you wish for.  Same goes for search engine optimization.  Well, they did this to Hillary.  The information people get going forward will become more manipulated than it was even in the traditional media.  you may like it when it's for your particular candidate, but I bet you won't when people are using it for the next biggest disaster.

    I watched Daschle on FOX (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by Grace on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 07:49:59 PM EST
    today, defending the campaign finance thing.  It was hysterical and I got the feeling that Daschle knew this was high comedy because he was grinning from ear to ear the entire time.  

    First he said Obama had found a better way of "public financing" by allowing all the little people to fund his campaign.  Next, he said Obama had to do it because of the Republican 527s attacking and how McCain refused to do anything about them.  Then he was hit with a question about why the Democrat 527s are outspending the Republican 527s by 2:1 -- and unfortunately, the commentator didn't ask Daschle what Obama intended to do to stop them (which, obviously he can't do anything about them -- and neither could McCain).

    The whole time I'm watching this and I realize that Daschle thinks he just made fools out of the American people and he LIKES it!  He just looked like he was as pleased as a 3-year-old with a shiny new quarter!  This was like the highlight of his whole career!  He's spinning so fast and this is just like "Wheeeeeee!"  :)    

    Parent

    Well, Disgraceful Daschle didn't likeit when (5.00 / 3) (#92)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 07:54:38 PM EST
    the people made a fool of him and threw him out of his senate seat.  This is just a way of trying to make himself relevant again, and trying to make up for not delivering SD to the obama column...really, he couldn't even do that.  Let's face it, if obama is going to be sending his other half to luncheons on a charter jet, he is going to need lots and lots of money.  Matthew Dowd explained today if obama had taken opted for campaign financing, he would have been fine, as he can continue to raise money up until the convention (I believe) and then take the 85 million.  He said, believe it or not, it is hard to spend that much money.  I don't ever expect to get a true answer out of the obama camp.

    Parent
    They don't appear to have (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by Grace on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 08:55:56 PM EST
    true answers for anything, let alone campaign financing.

    So far, this has been a really disgraceful presidential election year.  

    The only part I'm really enjoying is watching McCain come out on various subjects and seeing Obama take an exact opposite stance... then slowly twist, and twist some more, and twist some more... until his stance is practically the same as McCain's.  

    Does Obama have any ideas of his own?  Or is he simply going to run on "I'm not John McCain, McCain is Bush's third term"?  How come I keep hearing crickets when I ask that question?    

    Parent

    Those crickets are going to be a busy bunch! (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:11:18 PM EST
    As for a straightforward, truthful answer on anything, one can hope; but by all means, do not hold your breath.

    Parent
    There is a really funny new one today (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Grace on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:49:58 PM EST
    MSNBC story (cuz you know it isn't slanted):

    OBAMA CALLS FOR CLOSING 'ENRON LOOPHOLE'

    Obama campaign's said today that he plans to ease the impact of rising gas prices by cracking down on excessive energy speculation through closing the so-called "Enron Loophole."

    It's a good read, all about how John McCain is out of touch.  ;-)  

    Way down at the bottom there is this little snippet (in the interest of good journalism, I'm sure):

    McCain campaign fires back

    McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds sent an email that pointed to McCain's support for closing the "Enron Loophole," noting that he was "one of only three Republicans" to support an amendment to do so. Corzine, then a US senator, voted with McCain for the amendment, his campaign said.

    "The truth is Barack Obama is following John McCain's lead to close a Wall Street loophole that was signed into law by President Bill Clinton," Bounds said. "John McCain has supported bipartisan efforts to close this loophole and will work to address abuses in oil speculation. Barack Obama has voted the party line for Democrats who claim the loophole is fixed.



    Parent
    obama continues his "me too" tour.... (5.00 / 4) (#124)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:54:10 PM EST
    THIS is exactly why should Obama win (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by masslib on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 08:39:09 PM EST
    and maybe even if he doesn't, public financing is dead for the rest of our lives:

    "First he said Obama had found a better way of "public financing" by allowing all the little people to fund his campaign."

    I thought publically financed elections was a progressive goal?  This is a farce.  There is no "better" way for publically financed elections than publically financed elections.  Welcome to an elite donor class picking our President for the rest of your life.

    Parent

    Repugs will hammer Obama on 'dirty' money (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by Ellie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:23:29 PM EST
    ... and use, eg, incidents like Michelle Obama taking a charter flight to Wash to "heal" Clinton supporters. (What, the Obama's can't take a bus like other campaigns?)

    It's BS but I predict the Repugs will make a stink about fund-raising and Chicago=dirty election fraud, Should Obama win and before inauguration, IMO that's what they'll go for, since campaign cash is notoriously hard to get down to the penny.

    They'll have the FISA immunity before inauguration to spy on Dems and get whatever dirt they need, too (and I have not one mote of doubt that Repugs are already doing it.)

    Parent

    I believe they said she had to get home to (5.00 / 2) (#169)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:35:43 PM EST
    the kids...guess they spent all the babysitting money; and WTH, it isn't their money paying for the jet.

    Parent
    Oh, I don't doubt that -- Rethugs will use it tho (5.00 / 0) (#175)
    by Ellie on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:04:29 AM EST
    If it's one thing I know about the Repug Reptile Brain, they hate it when non-Repugs spend lavishly, as that means the Repugs overlooked a bunch of money to hoover for themselves.

    I'm predicting the  main attacks on Obama will be about election fraud and dirty funds, and the plane will play into it that way. (Now they own a JET! Blah blah blah)

    Parent

    I think the Republicans (none / 0) (#173)
    by Grace on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:51:06 PM EST
    would best spend their money hammering McCain with a lot of stupid, phony, ridiculous charges that they can pin on the Obama campaign.  That way, McCain will get free airtime to defend himself.  ;-)

    Seriously, they could accuse McCain of some really nasty stuff like:  Throwing his excess garbage into his neighbor's garbage container when his own is full, shopping at Wal-Mart for sale items, secretly buying Arizona lottery tickets, rescuing animals from the animal shelter then gifting them to friends who don't want pets, speeding in his golf cart, hitting on the cute little 70-year-old waitress at the local IHOP, screaming at the sales clerk at Macy's "When I say I want polyester, I mean REAL polyester!  Not this junk that feels like silk!" and, well, I'm sure we can come up with some more "sins of John McCain."  :)

    Parent

    Well Grace, McCain's just not a good person (1.00 / 1) (#174)
    by Newt on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:56:56 PM EST
    and you can joke about him hitting on a cute little 70-year-old waitress, but part of my evaluation of him comes from his doing the exact opposite.  He dumped his wife for a younger, sexier, richer model.  

    That's just not the kind of manliness I respect.  And in the case of McSame, that was only strike one.

    Parent

    Obama's idol (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:06:26 AM EST
    Ronnie Reagan, did exactly the same thing:  Dumped one wife for a new one.  And I'm sure you'll find many people working in his campaign that have done exactly the same thing, probably for some of them, more than once.    

    How can you possible support someone who supports things that you don't agree with?  

    Parent

    It's not a silly thread. (5.00 / 7) (#77)
    by pie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 06:02:06 PM EST
    It's tragedy.

    You wouldn't have to keep defending Obama on a liberal blog if he were a great candidate that we could all support.

    You can look at that six ways from Sunday, and it's not going to change.

    Good luck.  You're going to need it and more.

    The blog may be liberal (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by flyerhawk on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:45:13 PM EST
    but given the fact that the majority of the posters here defend McCain and attack Obama, I hardly call the posters Liberal.

    Parent
    Being a liberal blog, doesn't mean legitimate (5.00 / 4) (#122)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:51:22 PM EST
    questions or comments about dems or repubs can't be asked.  I remember many obamatrons on here that felt it was delicious when they could play gotcha with anything Hillary.  And supposedly they are dems....just looking out for the good of America I guess... :)

    Parent
    And I am pretty sure you don't have to be a (none / 0) (#123)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:52:16 PM EST
    "librul" to post here.

    Parent
    This however is a risible claim n/t (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by rilkefan on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:00:00 PM EST
    Ugh (4.71 / 7) (#140)
    by IzikLA on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:31:45 PM EST
    Is this all you can do?  I was a big Clinton supporter who will vote for Obama.  I come here all the time.  I comment sometimes.  I am Liberal through and through.  

    I think the most disastrous aspect of this campaign was the trash thrown at the Clinton's from day one.  Obama's campaign played into it and, more importantly, benefitted from it.  When I had to watch MSNBC and turn the channel I knew there was something wrong.  But when I couldn't even listen to Air America or Talk Left Radio or the so called progressive media without hearing two seconds of vile being spewed at the Clinton's then I really think we have a serious problem and it has nothing to do Obama or Clinton as individuals or as campaigns.  

    The problem is that the left has been cannibalizing itself from within and you, unfortunately, are still perpetuating it.  We all need to move on and I can tell you with certainty that the way to do that is not to continue pummeling the group of voters that supported the other faction of the same party you call yourself a part of.  I know you are not the only one, but it's got to start somewhere and if I can do it I think you can too.

    Parent

    Do 2 wrongs make a right? (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:40:07 PM EST
    assuming what you say is true, do two wrongs make a right? That is not what my mother taught me as a child.

    Parent
    This site is a liberal site. Most of us, I (5.00 / 3) (#144)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:44:48 PM EST
    suspect are liberal, however, this site is also a dem. site...you can be a dem (at heart) and not be in love with the presumptive nominee. Some of us can forgive, but we cannot forget, and vice-versa. I personally think this country is in deep trouble if Obama is elected, and I thank this site for allowing me to say so. I do, however, believe in dem causes, causes which we may not seen again.

    Parent
    The Problem (1.00 / 1) (#146)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:48:35 PM EST
    Is that love and politics are a poor combination. It leads to the nonsense cult wars and the fallout that we are still dealing with.

    you can be a dem (at heart) and not be in love with the presumptive nominee.



    Parent
    Well, how do we usually vote, (5.00 / 5) (#148)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:52:50 PM EST
    you can vote for a candidate, vote for a party, or, in my case, for this year, I'm voting country and what I believe is best for it. The dem. principles that make us dems seem to be disturbingly missing this year. I can't wait to read the dem. platform as Obama sees it. I imagine I will be quite surprised, or will I?

    Parent
    Uh (none / 0) (#155)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:01:57 PM EST
    To quote digby regarding the latest Newsweek poll that has 55% of americans identifying with Democrats and 36% identifying with Republicans:

    Despite all the sturm and drang of the primary, the two candidates were always pretty much the same on the issues, certainly in comparison to the dinosaur McCain. There wasn't any real argument on substance. Of course the party would rally.


    Parent
    Newsweek!!! They are part of (5.00 / 3) (#160)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:11:28 PM EST
    the NBC family. In order to "sway" people to vote the way "they" want you to, polls are conducted, articles are written. People look at articles and polls and think, hmmmm, if so many think that way, I should think that way too. Please open your eyes. At least look truthfully at how things are accomplished. It's like a magician...you see what they want you to see.

    Parent
    Digby Fooled Again (none / 0) (#162)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:17:02 PM EST
    You better tell her about your inside information. Besides the quote has nothing to do with polls it has to do with the the similarity between Hillary and Obama on issues.

    Since you obviously did not bother to check the link here is a bit more for you:

    Here's some good news. I don't think polls this far out are particularly meaningful, but there is some information contained inside this one that should set people's minds at ease

    [snip]

    The poll explores the fundamental drivers so far in this election and it's mostly attributable to a new party identification with Democrats that's pretty stunning:

    digby


    Parent

    Well, if digby says it, it must be so. (5.00 / 2) (#166)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:26:12 PM EST
    Gallup says nationally, the poll is Obama 46% to McCain's 44%. So what. They are tied. You are being swayed and rocked into the position the candidate wants you to be in. The Gallup poll
    at Gallup.com is a daily tracking poll. Vote your desire, that is what makes America, America, however, tell me why Obama is better than anyone else instead of who's worse.


    Parent
    Swayed And Rocked? (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:21:46 AM EST
    What are you out of your mind. I am voting for the democratic nominee, and no not need any sexing up to do it. Hillary, Edwards, or Obama were all fine for me.  They are all the same on issues and miles away from McCain.

    Parent
    Then say that up front. Those of us (5.00 / 2) (#185)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:30:32 AM EST
    who do not like the nominee appear to have been around a long time and have seen quite a bit when it comes to politics. We are not easily taken in, nor do we believe every single word we hear. That is why you see and read what you see and read here. So many at this site are so very knowledgeable and well read. Vote democratic, but please do it with your eyes wide open. That's all. P.S. I give you extra points because you seem to be wrangling with so many here and are at the ready with your links. At least that shows me you are up for the task.

    Parent
    Listen (3.00 / 2) (#188)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:42:05 AM EST
    I voted for Hillary with my eyes wide open. She is more conservative than I will ever be, and so is Obama. As a NYer I voted against her during her second term as Senator because of her pro war stance. Obama is exactly the same. Both are bad on crime, as far as I am concerned.

    The thing I do not get is for someone who values keeping eyes wide open how you or anyone can imagine that there is some sort of chasm between Obama and Clinton. I have looked at their votes, speeches, policy statements and read tons, there is nothing but style differences.

    They are almost identical. Seems to me many have fallen in love, and the outrage is telling. I am 100% sure that if Hillary clinched the nomination we would be seeing the same kind of nonsense from those who were in love with Obama.

    It is truly mistifying to me, considering that these are Politicians we are talking about.

    Parent

    Obama's stance on just about (5.00 / 3) (#191)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:51:56 AM EST
    everything has been the result of being on all sides of all issues..he's a follower, not a leader, he does not believe in reproductive rights (he believes women and gays s/b given spec. consideration by the courts), he stood on the sidelines of the war and then voted "for" everything to keep the war going but said otherwise during the campaign, he is gravely inexperienced at everything, his campaign has been a bunch of pandering lies, imo. Thread is running low, I could go on, I'll stop.

    Parent
    The interwebs will become the nighlty news (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by boredmpa on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 07:03:49 PM EST
    Nothing good can come of google bombing, it will be overtaken by nasty hit-jobs and simply dissuades people from searching and seeking out new things.  It will actually encourage them to stay with branded/formated/"trusted" content providers.  Because why search for healthcare or political or product information when you could get sent to multiple fake/quackery sites and can't find anything easily?  

    The internet are about easier access to information and as such has the potential to change the information asymmetry in our society (think of the information you wished you could have looked up easily at 18 or 20, or before buying a house, or planning for retirement).  Whether lowering the cost/opportunity cost of access to health care, product reviews, or political information it all changes the game.

    But players/bureaucracies/systems resist change, they resist to protect their market, their culture, their organization.  Frequently, folks resist because deviation from the norm requires work.  So current players and people indoctrinated with certain ways of knowing/understanding the world have a vested personal and or economic interest in managing search results and framing information.  For 90% of the population, google bombing either succeeds (and thereby usually mis-informs) or fails and leaves people with a poor search experience--driving them back to accepted sources.

    We're far better than where we started with information access, but there is and will be tremendous pressures to turn 90%+ of the net into the same old low-information setup as the nightly news.  Google bombing just pushes us further in that direction.

    By itself, this may be minor, (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 08:21:01 PM EST
    add it to all the other stuff going on with the presumptive nominee, and ya get trouble, lots and lots of trouble (trouble my friends, I said trouble)!

    Tacky but not a big deal (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by Manuel on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:00:52 PM EST
    It is the equivalent of defacing or removing the other candidate's signs.  It also reminds me of encouraging crss over voting mischief ala Kos and Limbaugh.  It won't have a big efect.

    That seems kinda (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by mrjerbub on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:40:43 PM EST
    underhanded to me. There's enough going on out there without this stuff. IMHO. I've already decieded not to vote this cycle anyway. It won't matter as Washington State is solid blue.

    Please show me where Democrats have (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Grace on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:12:21 PM EST
    treated ex-soldiers like Kerry and Cleland so poorly?  

    Oh wait!  Now you, who appear not to be a real Democrat, are here spouting nonsense about McCain (or "McSame" as you call him).  It appears to be SOP to accuse our ex-war heros of war crimes now.  

    All this baloney is straight out of past elections -- and you expect us to buy it again?  

    When Kerry And Cleland (none / 0) (#164)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:20:50 PM EST
    Start supporting torture, rewriting the constitution, spying on americans, abdicating the geneva conventions, secret renditions, etc., Democrats will trash them as well.

    Parent
    These things have nothing (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by Grace on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:36:55 PM EST
    to do with rewriting someone's biography of "What they did in Vietnam/Iraq" while soldiers fighting in our military.  

    Why do Republicans have to rewrite history during elections?  Why do they feel a need to tear down people who have shown great bravery in battle?  It's so freakin' hypocritical to pretend to support the military and then spend time tearing down those you say you support.

    Prior to this election, I've never seen Democrats do this.  Of course, now, we've got all sorts of "Dem for a Day," "Dem for a Month," and "Dem for a Year" types in the party so it seems to be accepted by certain population.  

    Parent

    Good Question (none / 0) (#177)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:05:32 AM EST
    Why do Republicans have to rewrite history during elections
    ?Why has McCain rewritten his war experience to run as a leader on national security.  That is exactly what General Wes Clark is talking about.

    Parent
    ????? What are you talking about? (5.00 / 2) (#180)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:13:20 AM EST
    McCain is running as someone capable of being in charge of National Security.  This is because of his experience and biography (military college, military experience, general knowledge from spending 26 years in the Senate and Congress, plus all the committees he has served on).  Those things.

    Contrast that with Obama's experience and biography.  What does Obama have to offer that shows he is capable of being in charge of National Security?  Before you go saying "judgment," I look at that Reverend Wright video and I go "What judgment?" so you better have something to offer outside of that.      

    Parent

    Besides McCain Is Running (none / 0) (#168)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:34:30 PM EST
    On his national security qualifications, so it is fair game.

    General Wesley Clark says

    The truth is that, in national security terms, he's largely untested and untried. He's never been responsible for policy formulation. He's never had leadership in a crisis, or anything larger than his own element on an aircraft carrier or [in managing] his own congressional staff.

    YouTube

    Parent

    This doesn't explain why Obama is better (5.00 / 1) (#208)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 01:55:30 AM EST
    qualified.  If anything, Obama is lacking all that AND MORE!

    At least McCain has a few of the qualifications.  It appears that Obama has NONE!  

     

    Parent

    This is the same slimy kind of people (5.00 / 3) (#163)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:18:55 PM EST
    who would troll bomb people out of existence on Daily KOS for saying something good about Hillary, or something so horrible as "Obama's not a saint, he's just a politician".

    It's dirty, it's small, it's immature, but it's done, as much by Democrats now as Republicans.  Aren't we bigger than that?  I guess not.

    Well, here's Wes Clark's opinion (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:36:24 AM EST
    and it certainly doesn't sound like it applies to Obama:

    Wes Clark: McCain Doesn't Have the Right Kind of Military Experience To Be Commander-in-Chief

    He's a great man and an honorable man. But having served as a fighter pilot -- and I know my experience as a company commander in Vietnam -- that doesn't prepare you to be commander-in-chief in terms of dealing with the national strategic issues that are involved. It may give you a feeling for what the troops are going through in the process, but it doesn't give you the experience first hand of the national strategic issues.

    If you look at what Hillary Clinton has done during her time as the First Lady of the United States, her travel to 80 countries, her representing the U.S. abroad, plus her years in the Senate, I think she's the most experienced and capable person in the race, not only for representing am abroad, but for dealing with the tough issues of national security.

    Well, okay!  But Obama was never First Lady of the United States, travelling to 80 countries.  So, can you point me to the link that says Obama is the greatest now?  

    Otherwise, you know?  This all just sounds so political....  ;-)

    Squeaky may be consistant, however, (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:55:31 AM EST
    in this instance, today, now, I disagree with his/her stances. For me, it is not enough to just be a democrat. The principles I know as democratice ones, the ones I have voted for over and over probably longer than you, have now been seriously compromised. Just reading the threads here of the last few days have proven me out. I believe we are all entitled to our opinions..I've given my opinion(s)and all I've asked is why I should vote for the dem. nominee. I cannot seem to get that answer.

    Baycat57 (5.00 / 1) (#210)
    by baycat57 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 09:37:05 AM EST
    As long as the articles and comments are Sen. McCain's it is simply highlighting his policies and inconsistencies without the innuendos and outright lies of the 'swiftboaters'. As the 'swiftboaters' began their campaign long ago (hints that Sen. Obama is a 'terrorist', 'unpatriotic' and an 'elitist') I cannot see where such tactics are unwarranted. After all the Republican party has made a policy of such things, they shouldn't complain too much when it used against them - but with the truth.

    I always said (4.75 / 4) (#33)
    by pie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:05:04 PM EST
    I never wanted to be like "them."

    I'm disgusted, disappointed, and depressed watching the machinations of these so-called democrats.

    Oh well.  I should just sit back and enjoy the circus. If things weren't so effed up after Bush, I might be able to do that.

    What has happened to people?

    We have two mediocre candidates.  That certainly doesn't help.

    It's almost like no one remembers (4.66 / 3) (#11)
    by NJDem on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:23:31 PM EST
    he was a potential Dem VP four years ago...

    This is why it will be hard to paint him as evil, IMO.  

    Something I read yesterday (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by Grace on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:44:00 PM EST
    said that McCain was running for Kerry's first term and Obama was running for Carter's second term.  ;-)

    Parent
    If we don't do it, they will (4.55 / 9) (#10)
    by dianem on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:21:54 PM EST
    That's the rationale behind a lot of the unethical stuff going on nowadays. The government uses it as a rational for using torture on suspects.  The really charming bit about this technique is that nobody has to actually prove that the bad guys did anything unethical in order to justify behaving just a unethically - all they have to do is hypothesize that they MIGHT do something, and then the good guys feel that they are obligated to "retaliate". I wonder how many people cheated during the primaries because they knew that the other guys people were going to cheat and they wanted to balance the scales? I wonder how many local election officials have put their thumbs on the scales just because they were convinced that somebody else was doing the same for the other party - and they needed to balance things out.

    If just one team is cheating, then eventually they'll get caught and punished. But this strategy results in everybody feeling justified in cheating, and if everybody does it then when someobdy gets caught there is no justice, just more incentive for others to cheat.

    I am not sure what is more laughable (4.20 / 5) (#31)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:02:47 PM EST
    the google bomb or the reaction to it. This was done by both sides in 2004. I am sure the GOP and the McCain people are competent enough to do it to Obama as well and probably have already.

    But the gist of this thread is

    1. Some Obama people are google bombing
    2. Google bombing sound malevolent
    3. Therefore Obama is malevolent

    BTW I wouldn't be at all shocked if the Clinton campaign did it as well during the primaries. Nor would I be shocked if the Clinton Campaign did it, the Clinton voters would think it was great and the Obama voters would think it proved that Clinton was malevolent.

    Talk about a non-story. Must be a slow blog day.

    Got any proof? (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by pie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:06:50 PM EST
    BTW I wouldn't be at all shocked if the Clinton campaign did it as well during the primaries.

    Parent
    It just wouldn't be a "day" if her (5.00 / 4) (#39)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:09:35 PM EST
    name wasn't entangled somehow with all this.

    Parent
    Heh. (5.00 / 4) (#40)
    by pie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:10:57 PM EST
    This is what I mean by destroying.

    I dislike some of these commenters intensely.

    Parent

    LOL. Considering the front of yahoo news (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by rooge04 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:10:48 PM EST
    and google news was a perpetual pool of negative Clinton stories and others titled "Obama to win CA by 10 pts" I'm going to go ahead and guess which side was bombing the interwebz.

    Parent
    Did They Test-Run This (4.20 / 5) (#171)
    by WakeLtd on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:40:57 PM EST
    On Hillary? It doesn't sound like this is the first time Chris has done this. It just sounds like now that the target is going to be McCain he feels safe talking about it publicly.

    I don't have any problem (4.00 / 4) (#4)
    by andgarden on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:14:28 PM EST
    with. . .search engine optimization.

    Sounds Like (3.66 / 3) (#83)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 06:21:26 PM EST
    There is a lot of support for poooor baby McSame here. I hear Bob Perry is looking for funding.

    Just a quick FYI... (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by rooge04 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:33:20 PM EST
    maybe calling a decorated veteran and Senator McSame instead of highlighting why you think he shouldn't be President is not exactly making you sound mature, knowledgeable or comfortable in the abilities of your candidate to get elected.  

    Try telling us why Obama is a good candidate.

    Regurgitating McCain makes you sound like a juvenile.

    Parent

    That Is OK (3.00 / 2) (#114)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:38:29 PM EST
    I am not trying to impress anyone.

    Parent
    squeaky....not to worry. I can see your (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:43:21 PM EST
    allure for obama though....much condescension and arrogance going on.  It's too bad, because there are times you have had some valid points.  And, I know you don't care, but now they are just disregarded with no thought whatsoever.

    Parent
    Obama Has No Allure For Me (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:45:27 PM EST
    I am voting for him because he is waaaaay closer to my position than McCain.

    Parent
    I'll bet you didn't like (none / 0) (#143)
    by Grace on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:44:12 PM EST
    Billary Klintoon either, right?

    Who said there were Republicans voting for Obama?  ;-)

    Parent

    If You Mean (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:06:52 PM EST
    Hillary, I voted for her, but certainly had my eyes wide open and was hardly in love.

    Parent
    Besides Allure (none / 0) (#158)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:10:43 PM EST
    Is about some sort of draw that is about style, sexiness, flattery or other enticing things. That is not how I vote. I thought Hillary had a slightly better chance winning the GE, than Obama.

    Otherwise there was no discernible difference between the two, imo.  

    Parent

    Apparently so (3.00 / 2) (#65)
    by flyerhawk on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:46:43 PM EST
    Molly said she believes it is a common practice and that she wouldn't be surprised if the Clinton campaign did it.  She also said she believes that the Obama and McCain campaigns ARE doing it.

    What is so egregious about that?

    Did the Clinton campaign (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by pie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:49:20 PM EST
    do it?

    Or do you just want to throw out more crap?

    Parent

    pie- they NEVER get (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by kenosharick on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 08:29:29 PM EST
    tired of throwing more crap at Clinton. Second nature- almost like breathing for many.

    Parent
    It is agenda-driven conjecture. (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by lentinel on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 07:19:25 PM EST

    Saying you wouldn't be surprised if the Clinton campaign stooped as low as the Obama campaign isn't saying much for the Obama campaign.

    Parent
    It's kind of catchy.... (none / 0) (#5)
    by DoggieDaddy on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:15:08 PM EST
    Kind of like,

    Bomb Bomb Bomb,
    Bomb Bomb Iran....

    Karma in it's basic form:
    What goes around comes around,
    for both McCain and BO

    This is nothing (5.00 / 5) (#7)
    by jondee on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:16:14 PM EST
    but McCain-hate and it has to stop.

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by flyerhawk on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:47:59 PM EST
    Democrats shouldn't be attacking Republicans.

    They should be attacking Obama.

    Parent

    It will backfire (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by pie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:33:47 PM EST
    if you're not careful.

    I'm of the opinion that Obama's "great qualifications" should be enough to win the presidency.

    :)

    Parent

    I'm of the opinion (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by flyerhawk on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:34:46 PM EST
    that Barack Obama is not responsible for the actions of every person who may support him.  

    Parent
    Barack Obama (4.00 / 5) (#60)
    by pie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:39:04 PM EST
    is irresponsible.

    Great.

    Parent

    Huh? You don't have to hate McCain (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Newt on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:01:18 PM EST
    to hate what he does and what he stands for.  If someone is making McCain's words and actions more accessible to searchers than they would be with just the right wing search usage, it's not McCain hating.

    You could agree or not agree with their methods, but showing people what McCain is really all about is not hatred.  It's disseminating information.

    Parent

    But are they REALLY showing what (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by nycstray on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:06:33 PM EST
    McCain is? I think not. More than likely finding distorted info and bombing it. Not like we didn't just see round one against Clinton. Basically, it's a smear campaign that the O camp "claims" to be above.

    Parent
    They are frigging (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by flyerhawk on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:18:18 PM EST
    articles that have quotes from McCain!

    Parent
    Republicans (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by pie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:31:51 PM EST
    won't care.

    We haven't even begun the campaign season, but you all continue to be annoying and clueless.

    Parent

    pie, pie, pie....you go girl...I will say it since (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 07:49:03 PM EST
    we already know obamatrolls despise me....If this thread is so silly, inane and just wrong, why are you here?

    Parent
    I believe that (none / 0) (#129)
    by mrjerbub on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:16:19 PM EST
    There is a post further up the page that says they were blog entries and one of them form KO's people.

    Parent
    Yeah, diseminating information (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 08:20:54 PM EST
    just like Fox News is 'fair and balanced'.

    Parent
    You know what, Faux News is NOT fair or balanced (1.00 / 1) (#98)
    by Newt on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 08:36:46 PM EST
    and neither is the information out there on McSame.  Personally, I think this is a non-issue in terms of it's affect.  But there is a big difference between this and the Fox distortions.  

    If a young women goes online and finds out that they guy her parents think is a war hero actually bombed and burned villages in Vietnam, and he cheated on his sick wife, then later called his rich wife a c*nt, I'd say that helps make things more "fair and balanced."  Because she's not going to hear that from her parents' conservative friends who are under the misimpression that McCain will protect our country.

    Fox Fake News, on the other hand, is disturbing and dangerous.  Posing as a news channel, they have reported FALSEHOODS about our Democratic candidate.  They deliberately MANIPULATE public opinion, to their own financial and political advantage.  They are deceitful and are a tool in the destruction of my country's democracy.  

    No, highlighting or promoting or even influencing google's search algorithm is absolutely NOT the same as what Fox Fake News does.


    Parent

    Gee, you can just about (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 08:49:00 PM EST
    substitute MSNBC everywhere you mention Fox. Amazing!!

    Parent
    Is anyone so stupid that they don't know (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by RalphB on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 08:54:20 PM EST
    this is what McCain did in Vietnam?  Clueless much?  

    bombed and burned villages in Vietnam

    The ex-wife is supporting him for president so Obama, and his supporters, should really stay the hell out of Sen McCain's marriage.  It didn't work when the GOP tried it on Bill Clinton and won't work much better now.

    he cheated on his sick wife, then later called his rich wife a c*nt

    Do you have a source for this supposed quote?  I've asked before and haven't gotten anything trustworthy.


    Parent

    Who posted that stuff about bombing (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by mrjerbub on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:27:59 PM EST
    villiages? I was drafted and sent there 38 years ago. I thought we were done with the "Baby Killer" thing.

    Parent
    I posted it. I'm a veteran, and I'm against war (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by Newt on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:59:19 PM EST
    especially wars where babies are killed, like Vietnam and Iraq.

    Thank you for your service to our country, even if you were drafted.  

    I volunteered.  But I don't like the way war is waged, and I don't agree with paying for more civilians to be murdered in the false pretense of keeping America safe.  

    Not In My Name.

    Parent

    Yes Ralph, many people still don't know (1.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Newt on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:05:17 PM EST
    the Real McCain.

    And when a man cheats on his wife, especially when she's no longer the "perfect little lady" because of an accident, then how he responses and what he decides goes to his character.  

    When he presents himself as a war hero and the man who is going to protect our country, when he is clearly not willing or able to do so, then his history should be known.  

    I don't care if his ex-wife supports him.  He pays her.  I'm more concerned with his character, both now and in the past.  And that's what these resources do: expose him for the radical right, misogynist, oppressive fraud that he is.

    Parent

    Bullsh!t, I asked for a reliable source (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by RalphB on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:22:15 PM EST
    not some dumb@ss anti-McCain website.  I'm left with the probability that calling his wife a horrid name is just so much internet crap and not true at all.

    If cheating on a spouse is your true mark of "character", you must have just loved Ken Starr in the '90s.

    Parent

    Oh sure, videos of McCain actually saying this (none / 0) (#149)
    by Newt on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:54:15 PM EST
    cr@p he says constitutes a "dumb@ss anti-McCain website."  

    These are actual videos of the man speaking, McCains own words showing he's unfit to be our president.  

    If that doesn't convince you, let's just agree to disagree on this.

    Parent

    It's exactly the same thing (none / 0) (#176)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:04:51 AM EST
    Fox highlights only that which supports its political views.

    John McCain has had a long career and had said many, many things.  Google-bombing 'the worst' of them is exactly what Fox does.  They manipulate the context and omit information they disagree with or don't want people to know.

    It's just a different venue.

    Parent

    Sad (none / 0) (#18)
    by STLDeb on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:31:06 PM EST
    I think it is very sad, in this case Obama supporters (Dems or independents) who want to "google bomb" McCain.  

    Obama should put an immediate end to this kind of shenanigans (did I spell that right?).  Obama has always said he wants to run a different kind of campaign but, unfortunately, his surrogates didn't quite receive the message, specifically when it first came to attacking Hillary, now McCain.

    Both Obama & McCain are trying to run upstanding campaigns but this is getting ugly.  

    Please open your eyes..Obama (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:33:16 PM EST
    knows just about everything going on. He has "people" who oversee this stuff. When something isn't working, a stop is put to it. If you think he doesn't know, then he is not the leader you think he is (and so many of us know he's not).

    Parent
    You're Right (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by STLDeb on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:41:43 PM EST
    You are probably very much right.  

    That being said, why Why WHY do you think people are so drawn to him?  I can understand his message of change/hope, he's very charismatic/charming, has a beautiful family, HOWEVER, he is doing the same thing as every other politician has ever done (unfortunately this time with the help of the media just swooming over him, especially MSNBC).

    Parent

    Exacto. !!!!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:04:08 PM EST
    All the viral tidbits.  

    Parent
    Truly he is omniscient (none / 0) (#68)
    by flyerhawk on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:47:54 PM EST
    He knows all.  His spies are everywhere!

    Parent
    Interesting (none / 0) (#21)
    by lilburro on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:37:27 PM EST
    I wonder if this will be on McCain's radar?  It's probably too silly for him to try to make hay out of it.

    But (none / 0) (#76)
    by Politalkix on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 06:00:27 PM EST
    not such a bomb if one looks at the list of people who endorsed Lieberman including Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton.

    But they are EEEEEVIL and not "real" (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by nycstray on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 06:02:41 PM EST
    Democrats or some such crap  ;)

    Parent
    God One (none / 0) (#137)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:25:30 PM EST
    Typosts are foten hillloriaus.

    I read that as (none / 0) (#167)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:32:03 PM EST
    "Don't conjugate with us."