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One Of The Problems With The Media

Michael Tomasky is one of the better political reporters you will find. Smart, generally fair and well informed. Here, he writes a decent column on Obama's task to unify the Democratic Party and the DNC RBC meeting this Saturday. I have my quibbles with his opinions expressed in the column but I have a real problem with his ignorance of certain facts. Tomasky also wrote this:

A woman in the audience yelled, apropos of what I'm not sure: "What about Iowa? New Hampshire? South Carolina?"

It bothers me that Tomasky did not know why the woman yelled that. Of course I do not expect respected members of the Media to read my rants about the fact that DNC Rule 11, concerning the primary timing schedule, was violated by Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. But he was at the hearing and must have heard Carl Levin's presentation on the subject. [More...]

Moreover, Mike Tomasky is a veteran of the Village Voice and must be familiar with the work of fellow Voicer Wayne Barrett on the subject. Did Tomasky really NOT know why the woman yelled "What about Iowa? New Hampshire? South Carolina?" Really? If so, the question has to be how could he say he did his job as a reporter about this situation?

That bothers me about the Media. Sometimes, they do not do their job. Speaking for me only.

Comments now closed.

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    Good point (5.00 / 7) (#2)
    by andgarden on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:23:03 PM EST
    BTW, even the GOP docked South Carolina by 1/2. They followed the rules, and not the roolz.

    It took me three seconds to figure it out (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by myiq2xu on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:24:59 PM EST
    and I wasn't at the meeting.

    D-U-M-B

    I was standing next to her (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by MichaelGale on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:51:32 PM EST
    when she yelled.  She was enraged that it was even being said.

    She was sitting there quiet and listening and then all of the sudden, apparently she could not longer keep quiet....she just blurted it out.  I looked at her and she gave me that head snap exclamation mark.

    I smiled. I didn't get it. She did.


    Parent

    Sometimes, they appear to be (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Fabian on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:25:12 PM EST
    writing for the high school newspaper.

    I thought the purpose of journalism is to inform the readers.  If they aren't informed about the subject they are writing about, then how are the readers supposed to be?

    Hey wait a sec... (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by kredwyn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:34:38 PM EST
    I worked for a HS newspaper...we were taught better than to not do our research. And we were taught that if we didn't get something...ask.

    Parent
    Apparently, you did not get the memo: (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:42:26 PM EST
    The media is now officially post-factual.

    Would that it were not so...

    Parent

    that sounds like a plan. let's look around (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:59:22 PM EST
    for some high school and college reporters and send them out. they can't do a worse job.

    Parent
    I AM IN SERIOUS MELTDOWN MODE OVER THIS!!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by dotcommodity on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:22:04 PM EST
    that the Superdelegates are, like everyone, under illusions about the simple facts upon which to base decisions. One example: Howard Dean thinks that the youth vote is responsible for the high turnout.

    We have no fourth branch. Zip. Nada.

    I just combed through the AP and Reuters etc, and they all mis state what we saw happen Saturday, to imply that "despite a satisfactory decision to both sides, however, Clinton will press her (unreasonable, obviously, therefor) claims re Michigan."

    Your head explodes.

    And in the old days, you could be sure that litigatormom or someone, would have a big juicy diary exposing this on dailykos, and you'd see the diary sail to the top of the google and your blood pressure would go down a bit...and you could get on with your life.

    Now we are all cramped over here in this tiny blue room and the other places but the rational side of the Democratic party is nowhere as powerful as we were there, simply because of the design of the site, with its many amenities.

    (Conversely, over there now illiterate hordes of youtube kiddies pen 10 word "diaries" racing past with 5 commenters so there is just no point in writing even about other matters there any more. No critical thinkers are left there to read.)

    So where?

    How are we going to fund the Senate races?
    How are we going to write the diaries to influence policy?

    This split they engineered is a tragedy for Truth, Justice and the American Way.

    The facts are that Obama took 4 extra delegates from Clintons voters. Reducing her won delegate count by 4. Thats outrageous!!!!
    Not just getting all the uncommitteds which was ok with the Clinton delegation (could have been Obama Richardson or Edwards) but

    WHAT WAS NOT OK, WAS TAKING 4 OF HER DELEGATES.

    Not:
    "despite a satisfactory decision to both sides, however, Clinton will press her claims re Michigan."

    NO! Taking her voters will away from them! Thats what she will AND SHOULD !!! appeal.

    Now, this morning: my head exploding I combed through all the corp media. NOT ONE had that fact straight. This is reporting?????

    You try and find a quote for me. Anybody? Can anybody find one little important truth in our Godforsaken fascist media?

    I did just listen to Stephanopolis Sunday Week podcast, and he did allow McCauliff to get that across, but  that is the ONLY place I have heard it accurately represented.

    God help me. I can't take it any more.

       

    Parent

    that was a well written and (none / 0) (#182)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:30:31 PM EST
    very thougtful rant. i agree! thanks

    Parent
    On Local TV News (none / 0) (#179)
    by cal1942 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:27:55 PM EST
    the report was simply that the Michigan delegation got half votes and that Clinton had 69 halves and Obama 59 halves.

    The big news IMO was the remarkable removal of some of Clinton's earned delegates to give to Obama and that Obama got 59 halves without his name on the ballot.  The station also failed to report that the Obama campaign had the gall to request a 50/50 split of delegates. Missing as well was the Clinton campaign requesting that the delegates be distributed according to the way people voted.

    This was a Lansing TV station. Just incredible.

    Parent

    As a loyal subscriber to the NYT, I (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:26:43 PM EST
    make sure to check the next day's corrections, which are numerous and sometimes involve easily-discovered historical facts or geography.  Pretty disappointing.

    Stupid is as stupid does. (5.00 / 6) (#6)
    by janarchy on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:27:57 PM EST
    This is one of the biggest frustration of this campaign in general. People don't know the facts and yet continue to spew out arguments based on nothing or hearsay without any research of their own. The MSM doesn't do it. The bloggers don't do it. The fake news shows dont do it. And then it all becomes a big giant echo chamber...based on disinformation, sloppy research and even sloppier reporting.

    Trying to help the press corps do their job (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by marklar on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:47:03 PM EST
    is behind almost every alleged Clinton "gaff" or example of "negative" campaigning. Obama's "fairy tale" war stance; attempts to temper the Obama=JFK/MLK mythology with a little LBJ; "Slumlord"; "Shame on you Barack for your Harry & Louise ads"-- ("what happened to concilliatory Hillary! She's schizoid!"). The list goes on and on. She also should've never had to be thinking up yet another way to explain why she is still in the race(RFK assasin).

    Parent
    I do not accept his premise that Clinton (5.00 / 11) (#7)
    by bjorn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:28:02 PM EST
    has worked her supporters into a lather. This reporter is not the first to make that comment.  I think her supporters were already in a lather, including myself, about the stuff going on in the campaign.  Stuff Clinton only mentioned recently, and even then, only in passing. IF anything, Clinton has stayed in the fight because we have wanted her to, not the other way around.  I don't think the media is giving us, her supporters, enough credit.  

    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:29:05 PM EST
    I agree with your objection. but that is an opinion.

    It bothers me that he was unfamiliar with some basic facts of the situation.

    Parent

    He's a censor. (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:34:13 PM EST
    That's all the press is these days.

    Parent
    Actually, the reporter states (5.00 / 12) (#15)
    by sander60tx on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:35:18 PM EST
    the fact is that Clinton worked them into this lather

    So while it may be an opinion, it is stated as a fact, and one I totally disagree with.  IMO, she hasn't done anything to instigate the anger.  I think it is a combination of the media, the Obama campaign, Obama supporters, and the DNC which has led to Clinton supporters, all on their own, becoming increasingly angry.

    Parent
    "worked them into this lather" (5.00 / 6) (#76)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:12:01 PM EST
    what are we? dirty golden retrievers?

    Parent
    woof... (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by kredwyn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:39:37 PM EST
    I prefer to think of y'all as really big dogs.

    Parent
    Samantha is a yellow dog (none / 0) (#180)
    by samanthasmom on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:28:12 PM EST
    I guess that means I can vote for my dog.

    Parent
    Hey - my dirty golden retrievers (none / 0) (#177)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:26:17 PM EST
    resent that remark.  No one works them into a lather - they are not that easily manipulated, and neither are most of us Clinton supporters.  They do respond when provoked, however.

    Parent
    What a laugh riot you are! You FORGOT to (5.00 / 8) (#93)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:27:02 PM EST
    mention that the media crucified her on a daily basis while Obama was given a FREE RIDE.  And you also forgot to mention that he OUTSPENT her about 4:1 and they're still tied!  

    Parent
    I'm sorry, but when I tried to read your (5.00 / 6) (#96)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:28:11 PM EST
    comment, all I saw was just "blah, blah, blah..."

    Parent
    Just to clarify, my comment was in response (none / 0) (#98)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:29:32 PM EST
    to Blue Sun, not Angel.

    Parent
    Knew that! But thanks anyway. (none / 0) (#100)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:30:07 PM EST
    Clinton is so incompetent but (5.00 / 8) (#102)
    by bjorn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:30:31 PM EST
    somehow she has convinced the whole world Obama is unelectable?  Your argument is not a good one.  She can't be incompetent, and at the same time be so effective that she has rendered Obama helpless.  Take a look at your own whining here.  Neither candidate is perfect. Both candidates have made mistakes.  This is about who will be the better President.  Some of us think Clinton, some of think Obama.  Regardless, it will be over soon.  Your anti-Clinton rant makes it seem like you are actually the person described in the rant, not CLinton.

    Parent
    B.S., I mean Blue Sun, (5.00 / 3) (#111)
    by ChiTownDenny on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:36:15 PM EST
    Lets' be clear about this campaign.  The Obama campaign used race as a wedge issue to win votes.  It worked.  Everything else you state is just hyperbole.  

    Parent
    Well, ..... (5.00 / 3) (#117)
    by tree on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:38:55 PM EST
    She can't be incompetent, and at the same time be so effective that she has rendered Obama helpless.

    ...technically, she could be that incompetent, if Obama is even more incompetent.  Just sayin'...

    Parent

    heh (none / 0) (#124)
    by bjorn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:42:34 PM EST
    Hillary is the best-qualified (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:33:22 PM EST
    candidate in this year's presidential race.

    Don't take my word for it.  Ask newspapers who have interviewed her across the country, ask the voters who have been won over by her intelligence and knowledge of the issues, her fearlessness, her love of this country and its people.

    If Obama had one-quarter of Hillary Clinton's appeal, he'd look better.

    Parent

    Deride his abilities? (5.00 / 8) (#107)
    by cawaltz on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:33:43 PM EST
    Last I saw the damage done to his campaign was not because of Hillary but because of Obama, his supporters, and his acquaintance with individuals who engage in radical behavior. You keep on thinking its all Hillary's fault that Obama's campaign has put it out there that the people in Appalachia won't vote for him because they are all ignorant hillbily racists, you keep pretending its Hillary's fault that Donna Brazile went on TV and said the whit workinclass wasn't important along with Hispanics becaus Obama HAS A "NEW" coalition. You keep blaming Hillary that Daschle went on TV and said the white working class is a GOP demograpic anyway. You keep blaming Hillary while Obama supporters mock the fact that Puerto Rico voted overwhelmingly for Clinton.

    IACF, IACF, IACF. We know, We know IACF is all you Obama supporters seem to know how to say.

    Let me tell you a thing or two if Obama's campaign is so flippin superior then why exactly is he neck and neck with her instead of the overwhelmingly chosen as the nominee? Why has he lost in the swing states and behind in the PV to the [point that Donna had to give him some of Hillary's delegates to help him? I'll tell you why. It's because his campaign is inept and incompetent. The only difference from where I'm sitting is that the Obama camp has folks on the inside willing to rig the primary in his favor.

    Alot of good that's going to do you come GE time. For the record, I'm looking forward to watching the arrogant and obnoxious get their payback come GE time. I'm going to sit at home and toast the idiocy and hubris of those who chose to ignore popular opinion to install their "rock star."

    Parent

    And yet (5.00 / 3) (#114)
    by Nadai on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:38:21 PM EST
    your guy hasn't beaten her yet.

    Parent
    Blue Sun, you always, always write a book (5.00 / 0) (#140)
    by JavaCityPal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:54:37 PM EST
    If you could be more succinct, it would help. I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't read the really long comments.

    I'm sure you have something worthwhile to contribute, but the posts are where the story lies.


    Parent

    lol...pathetic as are your lurkers giving you (5.00 / 3) (#174)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:23:29 PM EST
    high ratings for obama spew.  Go away.  You trolls can't even be gracious when you perceive your boy is winning....nothing makes you happy other than acting like harpies against Hillary (HAH)...brad 12345, jaybat...you go away too.

    Parent
    Not a member of either camp... (none / 0) (#121)
    by kredwyn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:41:24 PM EST
    and actually...I hold you and your fellow fanbase members responsible for that.

    Thanks...

    Parent

    Mismanagement of campaign finances (none / 0) (#139)
    by Prabhata on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:54:27 PM EST
    disqualifies Hillary for POTUS?  Okeedokee.

    Parent
    But it is interesting that he is opining (5.00 / 6) (#26)
    by inclusiveheart on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:39:06 PM EST
    about why some people feel the way they do without finding out what facts and data they are basing their feelings on.

    In other words, "the lather" is based on something more than statements by the Clinton camp.

    I can't get too worked up about it at the moment, but I didn't like the MI decision at all.  The Clinton camp didn't have a bit of influence on my opinion of the decision either.  I think party bosses giving delegates to people who weren't on the ballot sets a bad precedent and that it does not bode well for netroots/grassroots politics if they feel they can do that sort of thing.  My opinion has nothing to do with Clinton.

    Parent

    Another problem is ... (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:46:10 PM EST
    the piece walks the line between reportage and opinion.

    I was always taught that you shouldn't use terms like "worked into a lather" in a piece of reporting.  It's hyperbole.  Not fact.  

    But those rules no longer apply, it seems.

    Parent

    Ooooooooooooooo (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:23:42 PM EST
    The threats!  
    Say goodbye to Obama - and you say goodbye to legal abortion - and contraception - and family planning - and reproductive health - and equal hiring and promotion practices - and equal pay - and maternity leave - and access to safe and economical child care - and Title IX's guarantees of equal education - and lesbian and gay rights - and on and on.  

    Yeah.  The Democratic Senate and House won't do a damn thing, just like the last couple of years.  

    Parent

    It is hard to win, when you have Rachel (5.00 / 2) (#176)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:26:00 PM EST
    Maddow covering for obama..."So should he have to account for every word of anyone who crossed the threshhold of TUCC?  obama doesn't even know Fr.
    Pfleger."  Now there is one of the more blatant lies from the msm....obama gave Pfleger's church a $100,000 earmark...Pfleger was/is part of obama's campaign.

    Parent
    Speaking of "bull goose loony"... (5.00 / 4) (#178)
    by tree on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:26:54 PM EST
    Anyone who believes this:

    Say goodbye to Obama - and you say goodbye to legal abortion - and contraception - and family planning - and reproductive health - and equal hiring and promotion practices - and equal pay - and maternity leave - and access to safe and economical child care - and Title IX's guarantees of equal education - and lesbian and gay rights - and on and on.

    is not thinking on all cylinders. Frankly, if all those things depend on a candidate who voted "present" on Illinois state reproductive issues, you can kiss them all goodbye right now.

    And, BTW, you forgot to mention that failure to vote for Obama makes one uniquely responsible for cancer, bad reality TV, and foot odor... Fear and Blame. The new Obama campaign themes. Maybe those will sell better than Hope and Change

     

    Parent

    Show women like Harriet a little respect, please. (5.00 / 2) (#186)
    by samanthasmom on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:34:45 PM EST
    She's one of the women who worked hard for all of those things you're worried about losing.

    Parent
    If all of these issues are really important to you (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:37:08 PM EST
    then you need to switch your support to Clinton.  She is more electable.  Not only that, she'll actually fight for your issues and not roll over like someone's trained pet.

    I believe it will be very hard for Clinton supporters to support Obama willingly because he is so light on experience, which is a major factor to a lot of us.  

    Therefore, you need to stop your posturing and pretense and come and unite with us (since I know you are really seeking Unity).    

    Parent

    Is it really an opinion? (5.00 / 5) (#27)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:39:39 PM EST
    He says:

    the fact is that Clinton worked them into this lather

    And he makes this statement after a number of things he claims not to know.

    BTD, you let him off too easily on this point.

    The above statement is bad journalism as well.

    Parent

    This is "fair and decent"? (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by herb the verb on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:52:22 PM EST
    "we've been hostage to the Clintons' inability to come to grips with the fact that Hillary was going to lose. Her final descent into rancid demagoguery about Florida and Michigan, comparing them to Zimbabwe and likening the "cause" of seating the states at full strength to the civil rights movement was, for some observers, the last straw.

    Parent
    boring talking points (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by bjorn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:56:33 PM EST
    someone has said these exact same words on many threads of late

    Parent
    Oh yeah, how could we be like a banana republic? (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:01:19 PM EST
    Oh hahahahahahaha.OMFG.  

    I could make a list:

    Florida 2000
    Katrina response
    Abu G
    Abu Graihb
    Guantanamo Camp Xray

    The Democrats rail agoanst these thing but did nothing much to stop them from happening  (post 2006 even!)

    Parent

    So you're here campaigning for John McCain? (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by samanthasmom on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:37:36 PM EST
    Because that's going to be the end result of what you're doing.

    Parent
    Why do you think the "old guard (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:43:45 PM EST
    Democrats" are the ones supporting Obama?  They HATE the Clintons because Bill Clinton didn't pass everything they wanted when he was President.

    The old guard Democratic politicians are only worried about retaining the perquisites of their own personal seats of power and are incapable of taking any moral stand that they fear might threaten their election chances.  And Bill and Hillary Clinton are nothing if they are not part and parcel of the old guard.  Hillary is our past, not our future.  Get over it.

    The Old Guard is the group that is supporting Obama!  If you want Change, you won't find it supporting him.  The only change will be the Oval Office doorplate!

    Obama is our past, not our future.  Get over it.    

    Parent

    So you're here campaigning for John McCain? (none / 0) (#191)
    by samanthasmom on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:39:16 PM EST
    Because that's going to be the end result of what you're doing.

    Parent
    "smart and strong" (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:13:34 PM EST
    this is something we arkansans have known for a long time.
    we always thought she should be the one.

    Parent
    i haven't seen hillary working people into (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:20:00 PM EST
    a lather either. we do our research and think for ourselves. give us credit, the lather belongs to us. i prefer white heather myself.

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by laurie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:20:24 PM EST
    I found this interesting post on a BBC blog:

    I ran for office in Hawaii and won the Democratic Primary in 2004. Having done so, I learned a lot about Hawaiian politics and I met Obama in Waikiki in 2006. He appeared incredibly immature from what I saw when he though nobody was watching. I met people who demonstrated to me how "things are planned out years in advance" and he acted in a way that he knew what was to happen.

    The USA press and, to a slighter degree, the World Press is incredibly biased in favor of Obama, even the BBC writer here. The "machine" owns the press and is heavily behind Obama. Could this be because Clinton truly wants to bring Universal Healthcare to he USA and they know, if elected, she will have a mandate to do so ? Especially considering that is the reason the machine went after her husband's Presidency starting back in 1993/4 , when he put her in charge of doing exactly this, that is bringing Universal Healthcare to America !!!

    I found it interesting-could be true...


    Parent

    Things are planned out in advance! (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:52:41 PM EST
    It's the meaininng of planning. Obama was given the keynote in 2004.  He was obviously being groomed for the job back them should Kerry fail.

    The GOP even put a nutcase up against him in Illinois.  

    Parent

    I must say, I cannot blame this (5.00 / 0) (#159)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:08:00 PM EST
    woman for being upset. She seemed to know what she was talking about. Especially with all the kool-aid drinkers we encounter here. (Not talking about the real world dems here.)I heard Britt Hume say today, that by Nov. all the animosity of the Hillary supporters, including woman like this one, will be healed. I'm not so sure...at least not me!!!

    Parent
    IMO (5.00 / 11) (#8)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:28:07 PM EST
    he knew exactly what she was talking about and was doing his job to frame and shape the story of Hillary and her C*R*A*Z*Y supporters.


    Another distinct possibility. (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:30:41 PM EST
    he probably learned the trick (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:33:59 PM EST
    from MSNBC.  they have made quite a career of it lately.

    Parent
    My Obama-supporting friends are (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:35:24 PM EST
    pretty good at this also.  

    Parent
    I agree (5.00 / 11) (#18)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:35:38 PM EST
    Even on NPR today, during political commentary on Saturday's meeting, they made sure to present audio of a single freaky-sounding older woman from NY that mentioned the phrase 'black man' during her rant so that they could portray the entire event as filled with crazy racist old ladies whipped into a Hillary-or-bust frenzy. The reporter said those words had an 'obviously ugly tone'. They never even got to the issues, just talked about the spectacle.

    The entire media is so incredibly lame.

    Parent

    Didn't you know that all old ladies (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by derridog on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:40:54 PM EST
    are crazy and racist?  You must not have gone to journalism school.

    Parent
    That's why they were executed in Logan's Run (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:46:04 PM EST
    You can't trust anyone over 30 with the franchise can you? They are all corrupted by GenX cynicism and lack of Hope. We Need Obamamen to do the job of the Sandmen.

    Oh wait did you mean seniors? er...

    Parent

    LOL (none / 0) (#64)
    by ChiTownDenny on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:56:11 PM EST
    yeah good movie, but but obama is (none / 0) (#88)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:21:45 PM EST
    over 30. oops, sorry senator, i didn't mean to spill the beans that way. but over 30 is over 30. snark!

    Parent
    Salo (none / 0) (#204)
    by cal1942 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:08:06 PM EST
    I've read comments on Obama sites that actually exude that sentiment.  One commenter on Atrios said 'why can't old people just die.'

    Parent
    And in TL comments I've heard... (none / 0) (#208)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:14:23 PM EST
    people under 30 called every name in the book...that they shoudn't be allowed to vote even.

    People are idiots, what else is new.

    Parent

    Yeah, (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:57:13 PM EST
    They are all "typical white women" like Obama's grandmother "a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe."

    Obama says they are so it must be true.  


    Parent

    Jesus. It's exactly what they did (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by Eleanor A on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:10:19 PM EST
    to Gore's supporters during the Florida recount.

    (smacks head) Don't Democrats ever learn anything?  Anyone going along with the palaver the media's putting out on this needs to have his or her own head examined.

    Parent

    yup, they learned but the wrong lessons it (5.00 / 0) (#90)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:22:42 PM EST
    seems. no wonder gore won't touch all of this with a ten foot pole!

    Parent
    The talk about a Gore candidacy (none / 0) (#214)
    by cal1942 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:34:34 PM EST
    in the years before the primaries started was really way off the mark.  I felt that he was VERY unlikely to become a candidate, much as hellothere said.  The line from Recount comes to mind: 'I can't win even if I've won.'

    In some ways that sounds so much like the situation that Hillary Clinton is in.

    Al Gore knew the score, no way was he getting back in.

    Recount reminded me of the Democrats in Congress that were wavering and wanting to call for Gore to concede. I don't think Gore wanted to be in a position to have to depend again on that pack of cowards or a hierarchy that is too cowardly to fight.

    Now those cowards have their own personal candidate, a candidate running on a platform of giving in. Madness.

    Parent

    The MCM has been working the Hillary voters are (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by jawbone on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:08:10 PM EST
    recist Narrative since NH. I mean, why else would anyone vote for Hillary over Obama? And, of course, Hillary dissed MLK way back in NH, then Bill went all recist by saying Obama's anti-war stance was a fairy tale. And then, OMG, he mentioned Jesse Jackson! (When was the last time we heard from Rev. Jackson, btw? Shortly after SC, iirc, when he actually defended Bill Clinton. Since then? Crickets.

    Parent
    If you're really an Obama supporter (5.00 / 2) (#203)
    by Alien Abductee on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:07:15 PM EST
    and not a GOP troll, will you please lay off with your taunting? All you're doing is inflaming feelings and making Obama supporters look like gloating asses. Why don't you go away until you can figure out how to contribute to party unity instead of destroying it more?

    Parent
    Um, I think my point was (none / 0) (#221)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:10:38 PM EST
    that they singled out ONE wacky ranting person rather than actually REPORT on the substance of the meeting like journalists are supposed to do. Moron.

    Parent
    They are going to have to go into overtime... (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:40:43 PM EST
    ...to brainwash the unwashed this time.  Clinton's making their task so hard because she's had the audacity to win most of the late races.  When will Matthews and tomasky get to go on vacation to Jamaica at this rate?

    Parent
    I'm totally crazy now (none / 0) (#155)
    by Prabhata on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:02:36 PM EST
    I'm joining all those crazy independents who vote Republican.

    Parent
    I would Agree Completely (5.00 / 5) (#14)
    by Dave B on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:34:54 PM EST

    That bothers me about the Media. Sometimes, they do not do their job.

    If only you had replaced "sometimes" with "usually."



    or never (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:38:46 PM EST
    I am trying to think of a single instance.
    so far no go.

    Parent
    Unless, of course, (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:50:05 PM EST
    their job was to pick the most unqualified candidate out of obscurity and turn him into a rock star in six months' time.  

    Parent
    but i thought the job of a reporter (5.00 / 9) (#24)
    by Turkana on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:38:40 PM EST
    was to quote press conferences and cut-and-paste press releases. you seem to think it includes research and thinking. how silly.

    Now see (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:41:07 PM EST
    If he could have quoted the Michigan Democratic Party's press release on the subject, he would have known that. This was a pretty basic point. Maybe Tomasky was not there when Levin testified.

    Parent
    We weren't there either, but we knew. (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by derridog on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:42:30 PM EST
    Yeah, but we all read BTD. (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:44:34 PM EST
    True. But I'm curious, BTD --do you (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by derridog on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:48:56 PM EST
    ever tell these people what idiots they are  -- not in so many words but by confronting them with their ignorance?  I'm happy you tell us, but I"d like to think that someone pointed out the facts to them that they missed while napping, for instance, during the Rules Committee meeting.

    Parent
    Or maybe he was the reporter playing (5.00 / 0) (#144)
    by tree on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:55:42 PM EST
    solitaire on his computer. I think a blogger at Confluence mentioned such a reporter during the proceedings. (garychapelhill maybe?)

    Parent
    Cognitive dissonance (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by miriam on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:43:01 PM EST
    Here's another example of the press's descent into Alice's rabbit hole. No named sources, naturally. Is it any wonder that sales of headache medications are soaring? [bolded emphasis below is mine]

    WASHINGTON -- Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton won another overwhelming victory over Senator Barack Obama on Sunday -- this time in Puerto Rico -- as many Democrats, including some of her supporters, suggested it would be best if she dropped her threat to battle on past the end of the primary voting on Tuesday. --NY Times, 6/2/08

     

    What a sham (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by Brookhaven on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:16:48 PM EST
    As an aside but it's something I've wanted to get off my chest.  "Some of her supporters": like those who voted for the Michigan high thievery on Saturday perhaps.  One in particular who said he was voting for the Michigan massacre (Saturday Night Massacre Two)looked like he swallowed the canary as his beady eyes watched as Harold Ickes fought vailently for HRC and against the highwaymen/women who ruled that committee.  I don't know his name but if anyone does, please post it here because he belongs in the the hall of shame.  

    But, your point is well-taken and an excellent one in terms of how many of these reporters say anything they damn well please and print it as fact.  Bob Somerby is the brilliant keeper of the gate about this disturbing and dangerous trend in the chattering classes for a while now and I don't know what I would do without his wise and powerful commentary about it all.  

    It would at least been more "honest" if whoever wrote that copy said "so and so said such and such but I promised them anonymity for their comment".  We don't even get that.

    And, one thing I've noticed during this campaign are the words these so-called reporters use when speaking about HRC and Obama.  The contrast has
    been startling.  

    In the example you give, miriam, the word "threat" is used to describe the action that HRC may or may not take.  It's a threat.  When nothing she said can be taken as a threat in the least.  Yesterday, after her big win in PR, there was a Yahoo (mostly AP stories which have been imo very slanted in favor of Obama) headline that used the word "grabs" when describing HRC's big win.  Grabs?  Takes it out of Obama's hands.  Since when is an election that is fair and square and the article never says it was anything but use the word "grab" in it's headline?  And, there have been tons of other examples in the words used against HRC in contrast to those used for Obama throughout this campaign.  There are so many things that have been squewed this primary season in favor of Obama and against HRC from the Media (new and old) that has been part of the still untold story here and I hope someone writes it.  Perhaps Marie Cocco from the Washington Post who has written a series of sober and true articles about sexism in this contest.  

    The Fourth Estate has mostly become part of the problem and part of the story (which is FUBR in and of itself) and have not done their job which is to speak truth to power and are endangering our democracy just as much as Bush or Nixon and their cronies.

    Parent

    we are turning into a society that (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:28:07 PM EST
    has non talents and call them stars but they haven't even been in a movie. we have a president who glories in his seeming lack of knowledge. american idol type politics has taken over. single issue voters are manipulated and vote without thinking about the more serious issues. dog whistles abound! and so does hackery in the media.

    Parent
    Very well said.... (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:48:49 PM EST
    hellothere.

    Strange days we live in...strange days.

    Parent

    "dropped her threat" (none / 0) (#181)
    by dotcommodity on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:30:13 PM EST
    "her" threat?
    GRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!@@@##~$$#@
    This supporter will show you threat!

    Parent
    Arlen Specter to Question RBC, DNC? (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by catfish on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:45:15 PM EST
    OK how credible is TownHall? This guy says Specter was/is considering calling hearings to question the legality of nullifying votes cast in a state taxpayer-funded election.

    Specter questions lots of stuff but (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:46:32 PM EST
    that is usually the end of it.  

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 0) (#75)
    by kenoshaMarge on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:11:17 PM EST
    but Arlen was questioning questionable Republican activity and his heart really wasn't in it. Questioning or implying bad Democratic Party behavior would be a lot more fun for Arlen.

    Parent
    yeah, his interest and outrage will be (5.00 / 0) (#99)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:29:51 PM EST
    without end. i wonder just how friendly those love buddy senators who compliment each other and back slap while we cringe will like this.

    Parent
    Maybe he can revisit (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by riddlerandy on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:47:46 PM EST
    Bush v. Gore while he's at it

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Steve M on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:52:03 PM EST
    I don't think Sen. Specter gets to hold hearings any more, unless he changes parties.  It would be a clever stunt, though, after the RBC left the door wide open by adopting such a politically indefensible result.

    Parent
    maybe they'll hold it in a near closet like (5.00 / 0) (#103)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:31:22 PM EST
    the downing street memos were. but all they want is cspan, so don't count the repubs out. they are clever.

    Parent
    He may get Lieberman to do it (none / 0) (#185)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:33:42 PM EST
    Which committee does he still chair?

    Parent
    I hope not (5.00 / 5) (#60)
    by digdugboy on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:54:32 PM EST
    This would distract him from his investigation of the New England Patriots and their Super Bowl victories.

    Parent
    Lots of legal mumbo jumbo (none / 0) (#47)
    by catfish on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:47:02 PM EST
    In the townhall piece:
    But once the Democrats evoke the state's machinery in order to hold a public primary, a bright line is crossed. As the Supreme Court in Gray v. Saunders observed state regulated party primaries "show that the State . . . collaborates in the conduct of the primary, and puts its power behind the rules of the party. It adopts the primary as a part of the public election machinery. The exclusions of voters made by the party by the primary rules become exclusions enforced by the State." Grey v. Saunders went on to assert that "state regulation of this preliminary phase of the election process makes it state action."


    Parent
    This is so weird (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:47:04 PM EST
    I had just finished reading that very article when I decided to visit TL.  Crazy.

    I thought it was just more pro-Obama it's-all-Hillary's-fault-so-it's-her-job-to-fix-it BS.

    I am so done with this election.  I'm almost relieved that she will be out of it soon.  Now I can sit back, relax and purr while they tear The Great One down bit by bit.  And they will.  

    And I'm sure even if he'd missed ... (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:49:23 PM EST
    point, he could have asked someone in the room, or asked a knowledgeable friend while writing the piece.

    It's damning that he doesn't know the facts.  It's equally damning he had no interesting in finding them out.

    This (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by kenoshaMarge on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:24:39 PM EST
    person is supposed to be a reporter. I realize that as a low-information person that only has the benefit of a high school education I may not understand all the ins and outs of being a reporter.  I  know that when I was in school and had to write a report, or when I was in the workplace and my boss asked for a report, I researched and got my facts straight before handing over my work. Isn't that just basic competency?

    These people are not doing their jobs. They are pulling nonsense out of their backsides, presenting it to the public as fact and getting paid large salaries for being hacks. Very few people in the media, print or electronic do their jobs. They are not worth what they get paid and they are not worth the attention we give them.

    Sorry, one of my pet hobby horses. Not to be confused with ponies. That's a whole nother rant.


    Parent

    This from Riverdaughter... (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by mogal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:49:34 PM EST
    Jake Tapper is also reporting that Hillary has refused to accept the new "magic number" of 2118. He sends this message to Obamicans:

    All of which is to say - Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, may reach 2,118 this week, but Clinton may assert that doesn't mean anything.

    Fasten your seatbelts.

    ...and there's more.


    yup she told them on the plane to buckle (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:32:26 PM EST
    their seat belts. hehehe!

    Parent
    She actually said (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:34:29 PM EST
    "Get in, sit down, hold on and shut up."

    Parent
    Now that I think about it, she has a lot of Bettie (none / 0) (#131)
    by mogal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:47:22 PM EST
    Davis in her. And Bettie almost always won.

    Parent
    Betty was great (none / 0) (#162)
    by Prabhata on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:08:53 PM EST
    Spunky lady.


    Parent
    From Bette (5.00 / 2) (#200)
    by samanthasmom on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:51:57 PM EST
    "In this business, until you're known as a monster you're not a star."

    Parent
    I noted at some point last year ... (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:49:49 PM EST
    ...that there would be a lot of ejections form the party and some manhandling. Soimeone upthread caught the FACT that others were ejected from the meeting.

    I'm think Labour circa the 1980s when Kinnock ejected Militant from the party.  only this time they are ejecting people who will be swing voters. And for what cause?  The fools gold of winnning in Nevada and Nebraska.

    I'm not a swing voter. (5.00 / 5) (#65)
    by Boston Boomer on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:56:14 PM EST
    I've voted Democratic since I my first time in 1972.  I'm just one of those nasty, troubling "older women" who have the gall not to warm up to Obama.  I've been thrown out of my party now.  I'm no longer responsible for what happens in November.  I'll be voting my conscience.


    Parent
    I said "will be" swing voters. (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:16:09 PM EST
    careful word selections.

    Parent
    I suspect (5.00 / 3) (#115)
    by cawaltz on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:38:21 PM EST
    due to the "awesomeness" of the Obama Unity Pony us that there will be alot more "swing" voters. I swear the DNC ad its cluelessness is surpassed only by  George W Bush. I swear there is some competition going on for the coveted "most clueless" award.

    Parent
    That's what I said, i think. (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:04:09 PM EST
    This isn't the corrective that Kinnock probably had to accomplish. It's the twilight of the 90s party in some respects.

    Parent
    i wonder if it is the twilight of the democratic (none / 0) (#157)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:07:26 PM EST
    and republican parties as we know it. they appear to have become a mockery of themselves not accomplishing anything for the people but into it for themselves on both sides.

    Parent
    swing plans (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by laurie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:40:00 PM EST
    I heard from someone who is actually quite a nice if totally over-dedicated Obama supporter, something about BO's plans to balance out the defection of Hillary women. New voters will cross over from the Republican camp. These will be -you guessed it- AAs and college kids!!!

    Parent
    the math, the math! i heard they (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:44:40 PM EST
    can't add and substract anymore and this proves it.

    Parent
    The GOP has a rash of (5.00 / 3) (#130)
    by cawaltz on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:47:18 PM EST
    AAs they have been hiding? LOL I am torn between hope they aren't serious and hope they are, just for the entertainment value.

    Parent
    effing hell. (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:56:42 PM EST
    How many black GOP are there?  

    Parent
    Because (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by Nadai on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:48:33 PM EST
    there are just so many Republican AAs and college kids.  How many women voted for Hillary, after all?  It couldn't be more than 10 million or so.

    Parent
    It's basic. (5.00 / 5) (#58)
    by oldpro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:53:45 PM EST
    Who, what, when, where, why?

    If he didn't know why the lady yelled it or what it meant, his first job was to find out...ask her...or anybody!  But to mention his ignorance in a column is just dumb, dumb, dumb...

    ...and very revealing.

    That get's an F in my class.  (Along with sentences beginning with "The fact is..." followed by an opinion...and NOT a fact.

    Back to school, buster...

    Whoops....gets...not get's! (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by oldpro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:54:39 PM EST
    Sheesh.

    Parent
    Whoops....gets...not get's! (none / 0) (#63)
    by oldpro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:55:39 PM EST
    Sheesh.

    Parent
    Media intregity? (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by mmc9431 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:16:05 PM EST
    It's been years since the media did their job. So nothing about them surprises me now. It seems to me that with the consolidation of the media they all just play the game and keep their heads in the sand. Rating and conflict are more important than truth. Unfortunately this has become true of too many within the blog world too.

    The Media - CNN - is reporting that Bill Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by mogal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:19:35 PM EST
    is angry and he even wakes up angry.

    Hey, guess what I'm ANGRY and from what I read a lot of us are.

    Oh, and now they have Purdum on to discuss the "id." This is ridiculous can you believe that Bill would be angry at the media?

    Header: Kranky Klinton eat's Kids. (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:58:24 PM EST
    No sublimimnal there eh?

    Parent
    i wake up angry everyday. (none / 0) (#163)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:09:31 PM EST
    i say to myself i "hate" so and so and then the second one who inspires my wrath. i then tell myself to drop it and think about something else. this isn't healthy, then here we ago again with the dems being dims. the anger starts again. soon i'll back away and begin running or biking.

    Parent
    Purdum is married to Dee Dee Myers (none / 0) (#216)
    by vicsan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:37:42 PM EST
    Bill's former WH Press Secretary. That make this article even worse, IMCPO.

    Parent
    This just in - HRC will not concede (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Eleanor A on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:21:44 PM EST
    or drop out of race Tuesday night...

    According to Fox...

    and abc (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:24:48 PM EST
    ABC News Report That Hillary is NOT Conceding!

    Parent
    What was the statement? (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:27:26 PM EST
    Wheezing across the finish line?

    Oh my.

    Parent

    The statement about Obama, (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:28:12 PM EST
    of course.

    Parent
    I want her to squelch (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:30:22 PM EST
    his declaring victory tomorrow night.


    Parent
    She should make the party issue a formal statement (5.00 / 0) (#168)
    by Ellie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:15:41 PM EST
    If certain SuperD's have thrown their support behind Obama they should do so on the record, rather than have TeamO's aides and assorted courtiers whisper to the media.

    I'm certain their constituents would be very interested to know which ones have led Obama to believe he's to be annointed.

    Parent

    The media make it almost impossible (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:38:53 PM EST
    for anyone to be a "high-information" voter, since "reporting" has morphed into thinly-disguised opinion-writing, where facts are considered irrelevant because everything is a matter of opinion.  

    Ah, but if you listen (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:45:15 PM EST
    to the candidates, you get a sense of their qualifications.

    When I was told to go to Obama's website to get policy positions, I knew we were in trouble.

    Parent

    So true, which is why I make a point of (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:55:55 PM EST
    not letting the media nitwits interpret what the candidates said, and instead listen for myself.

    I know the media does not like people like me, who refuse to automatically accept what they say as truth; I think they very much resent anyone who considers him- or herself capable of reaching an opinion without any media hand-holding...

    Parent

    If you went to the Obama website (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:20:41 PM EST
    and read the policy positions, you'd know we are in trouble!  

    Parent
    SD and MT new polls (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by sotonightthatimightsee on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:44:46 PM EST
    This is a clear case of buyer remorse. Another landslide win for Hillary in South Dakota would prove the point. However, it is in the DNA of Democrats to nominate losers. For the last 40 years, they were able to elect only two presidents. This year, even with all of the stars aligning for them, they still find a way to screw it up to nominate a sure loser like Obama.

    http://www.pollster.com/blogs/poll_arg_montana_south_dakota.php

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html

    She's only 4 points behind (none / 0) (#213)
    by vicsan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:33:30 PM EST
    in Montana? I thought he was suppose to win a landslide there? SD is AMAZING!! 60-34? WooHoo!

    Go, Hillary!

    Parent

    If he was factual (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by waldenpond on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:49:08 PM EST
    he couldn't have done what the rest of the media has done and spun this as... Clinton supporters have no rational basis for not uniting behind Obama.  I noticed a certain meme in the articles this morning portraying the people who were concerned as loons and poor losers.  Facts would only get in the way of bashing Clinton via her supporters.

    I kept saying the Repubs are going to use this... Clinton supporters are portrayed as irrational by one side and what do the Repubs do?

    Well, look at that...they act like the voters matter.

    [Senator Arlen Specter (R-PA), the former chairman and now ranking minority member on the Senate Judiciary Committee, is seriously evaluating whether he should call for Congressional hearings.]  

    Who do you think will capture the hearts of the voters.. the ones who tell people to 'get over it' or the ones who say this..[Specter, probably one of the most legally astute of GOP Senators, contends the DNC is violating one of the most fundamental of all constitutional rules, that once a vote is cast it must be counted]  

    The Dems are going to lose the media war if they don't get control of this.

    The GOP has a better GOTV and mesaage machine. (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:00:48 PM EST
    They are natural oportunists.   They have a potential goldmine.

    Parent
    Holy cow. Arlen Specter (none / 0) (#211)
    by vicsan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:23:17 PM EST
    is defending the voters the DNC screwed over? Did He$$ freeze over? Holy Moly. The Democrats had better settle this issue before he does call a hearing. Otherwise, they are going to look like the fools they are.

    There are times though when Arlen is more talk than substance.

    Parent

    Oh, my dear ones (5.00 / 3) (#137)
    by kmblue on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:50:31 PM EST
    Stephen Colbert said it all ages ago and said it best.  I have his speech (that no one at the White House Correspondent's Dinner "got") safely tucked away in my computer files.

    A tiny sample from Colbert's address to our
    fearless Press:

    But, listen, let's review the rules. Here's how it
    works: the president makes decisions. He's the
    Decider. The press secretary announces those
    decisions, and you people of the press type those
    decisions down. Make, announce, type. Just put 'em
    through a spell check and go home. Get to know your
    family again. Make love to your wife. Write that novel
    you got kicking around in your head. You know, the one
    about the intrepid Washington reporter with the
    courage to stand up to the administration. You know -
    fiction!

    Stephen has my heart forevermore.  

    It is difficult to make an MCMer understand what (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by jawbone on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:55:16 PM EST
    he or she is being paid to not understand. Or at least to not report.

    I'd lay odds that Tomasky darn well knows exactly what the lady was yelling about. But think how much space it would take to explain it for the first time for most of his readers! He is not being paid to elucidate such things. He has a Narrative to manage.

    Rachel Maddow just now on MSNBC, when I clicked over during a commercial, was saying that poor Barack is being held responsible for just about any Tom, Dick, or Harry who crosses the threshold of his former church.

    Rachel! How dare you! Pfleger has been a friend and cohort of Obama's for over 20 years.

    Do not tell she she doesn't know that.

    But she's not being paid to report facts which damage The Narrative.

    Sheesh.


    Do you know who Tom, Dick and Harry were? (none / 0) (#158)
    by Salo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:07:57 PM EST
    They were brothers and also Highwaymen from my hometown village in Burford. All hanged.

    How appropos that she should invoke the merderous theives in connection to the RBc committee.

    Parent

    I may have paraphrased by using that threesome, (none / 0) (#167)
    by jawbone on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:15:11 PM EST
    but her point was that Barack can't be held responsible for what people say at his old church (especially if he's worked closely with them for over 20 years, bcz the MCM won't tell you that).

    Fascinating that Tom, Dick and Harry really existed? This is for real?

    Parent

    how about dick and jane. yup and spot too! (none / 0) (#169)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:16:50 PM EST
    smile!

    Parent
    Speaking of people named Dick, (none / 0) (#218)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:42:46 PM EST
    I wonder what Dick Gephart thinks of this new direction for the party? Anyone? Sorry, this is OT, but has any journalist asked?

    Parent
    that is a good question. he has been absent (none / 0) (#223)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:22:52 PM EST
    and very quiet hasn't he!

    Parent
    Facts (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by Alien Abductee on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:32:12 PM EST
    In some tellings of the tale it's hard to see anything but MI at fault for precipitating this, for a range of reasons, some of them good some of them not so good.

    Levin has wanted to break the hold NH has for a long time. Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong. But the fact that NH didn't play by the rules doesn't absolve MI of the responsibility of playing by the rules. It didn't and thus faced the consequences. NH didn't and got its waiver because its change supposedly didn't materially impact things because it was already in the pre-window.

    No excuse for Tomasky not to know all the history, but I think that people advocating for full seating for MI and FL took for granted that this whole incredibly convoluted tale was all completely known and clear to everyone, and they failed to properly make their case on the whole backstory over the past several months.

    Most of what's been written about it over the past few months has too rarely addressed the whole big-state small-state and frontloading issue and the party trying to bring diversity to the primary process through their changes to the schedule, with conflicting views on what that means and how it can be best made to happen.

    It may not have impacted the final result, but it would have been good for helping people understand and sympathize with MI's frustration over the situation and it would have put their actions into a larger and more meaningful framework. Instead it just degenerated into finger-pointing over who's more to blame for the mess and played into the your-team's-evil my-team's-good madness of this primary.

    unfortunately the real reporting will come (none / 0) (#189)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:37:11 PM EST
    after this is over and i'll buy the well written accurate book. the hack pieces, well i'll know them by their authors.

    Parent
    Exactly. (none / 0) (#1)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:23:02 PM EST


    Who is she? (none / 0) (#16)
    by bjorn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:35:19 PM EST


    here ya go.... (5.00 / 0) (#28)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:39:46 PM EST
    Harriet Christianson (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by Boston Boomer on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:42:18 PM EST
    is a woman who was videotaped after being thrown out of the meeting on Saturday.  There were videotapes of two women who were "removed" from the meeting--on of them had ugly bruises on her arm from being manhandled.

    I don't think it's helpful to call Harriet a racist.  There has been way too much of that kind of name-calling in this campaign.  It really cheapens the entire meaning of racism to keep calling people who simply want a fair shake for the very well qualified woman in the race.

    Harriet, like many of us, can see that the fix has been in for Obama since the beginning. There are million of women and men who are as angry as she is.  Obama needs to deal with that or he'll pay a heavy price in November.


    Parent

    Too little too late. (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by derridog on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:44:35 PM EST
    I'm voting for McCain for the good of the country. At least McCain has a demonstrated history of being able to work with Democrats and, if we vote Dem downticket, we can possibly take care of the Supreme Court problem. Of course, if the Democrats are as lame as they are now, nothing we can do can fix that problem.

    Parent
    I'm not with Hillary.... (3.00 / 0) (#136)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:49:41 PM EST
    but I'm with Harriet.  

    I have no reason to believe she's anything but an American who ain't gonna take it sitting down anymore.  I respect that.  I think she's nuts to vote for Clinton or McCain, but she's what America is all about...crashing the gates of power and being heard.

    If they roughed her up that's shameful.  I hope she raises a massive posse for the convention...I don't think we've seen the last of her.

    Rock on Harriet.

    Parent

    Curious, (5.00 / 0) (#143)
    by ChiTownDenny on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:55:20 PM EST
    if you're not for Hillary, who are you for?  Would you be for Obama and support "crashing the gates"?  

    Parent
    I'm for.... (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:07:20 PM EST
    whoever doesn't have a D or an R after their name.

    I'm the resident third party whackjob around here.

    Parent

    Kdog (none / 0) (#170)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:18:00 PM EST
    I'm the resident third party whackjob around here.

    Well, you got part of the right.

    ;)

    I'm just teasing.  

    I think it's good to have people representing the third party candidates on TL.

    Parent

    Keep teasing Robo.... (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:42:29 PM EST
    we all should lighten up a little.  

    The sun will continue to rise no matter who the president is, and if it doesn't...then it doesn't really matter who the president is....does it?:)

    Parent

    I've been a registered ... (none / 0) (#222)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:16:13 PM EST
    Democrat for 20+ years.  A sense of humor is required.

    Parent
    she was on faux news today (1.00 / 1) (#125)
    by uncledad on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:43:59 PM EST
    and said 99 percent of blacks voting for Obama don't know why. You don't think that is racist?

    Parent
    racist? it might be but then again (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:48:15 PM EST
    women who voted for hillary were called racist and one issue voters. so why did the aa's swing to obama? yup, in part due to pride but it was more than that. it was the racist dog whistles from his campaign as well. that's racist! maybe that what she was trying to say and not doing a very good job. and i am sure you would agree that the comments by rev wright are quite racists too wouldn't you.

    Parent
    Dog Whistles? (none / 0) (#220)
    by uncledad on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:10:20 PM EST
    That sounds a little parinoid. Yes I think some of Rev Wrights statements were racist, they were Rev. Wrights comments not Obama's. I am saying that Harriet woman is a racist, I never said Hillary was and do not think she is. Your a little to defensive!

    Parent
    If racism and lunacy rocks, (1.00 / 2) (#74)
    by KristenWinters on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:10:51 PM EST
    she was the Led Zeppelin of Saturday's hearings.

    I believe Jeralyn stated that the racist clip would not be linked from this site.

    I am offended.  Please remove.

    Parent

    instead of running away from this lady's (5.00 / 0) (#113)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:37:55 PM EST
    rant, i suggest you listen and think about it. she has some very good points and that anger is going to prove to be a very serious problem in november. by the way it is called reverse racism! that is her complaint!

    Parent
    Rock on.... (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by katana on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:13:20 PM EST
    I am offended.  Please remove.

    Of course you're offended.  On what hour, of what day, of which month are Obama admirers not offended?

    Harriett stood up for herself, and to an Obama supporter, an older, white woman standing up for herself is, by definition, offensive to Obama.  (As is anybody not an Obama-acolyte who stands up for herself, and, of course, himself.)

    And therefore, you--though not evidently an African-American man youself--waste not a nanosecond before you leap to the barricades to not only announce how offended you but to demand that a link be removed from the site.

    In all due respect (which, I'm chagrined to say, isn't much), may I ask, who the hell are you to be offended, and who the hell are you to demand that the site-master do anything other than let you visit here?

    You label Harriett the Led Zepplin of the hearings.  To judge by your posts, it wouldn't be inappropriate to label you the Milli Vanilli of this thread.  

    Parent

    Faux offense (3.50 / 2) (#146)
    by Eleanor A on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:56:11 PM EST
    I'd have an easier time believing you if you hadn't been in here flamebaiting everyone for days.

    Parent
    It's not (none / 0) (#86)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:21:02 PM EST
    black and white.

    It's that Obama has less experience and NYS loves her enough to reelect and fight for her.

    I'm sorry you're offended.

    You'll have to get a tougher skin if Obama gets the nomination though.

    Parent

    Doesn't matter if it's racist (none / 0) (#134)
    by independent voter on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:48:57 PM EST
    it's ridiculous and should be an embarassment. I cannot believe anyone is PROUD of this display.
    The whole "tougher skin" thing is very worn out as well. Do you not understand that it is different if it is coming from the GOP?

    Parent
    I'm proud of Harriet.... (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:57:11 PM EST
    and I'm proud of Father Pfleger even.

    It's what goes on in the Oval Office, the Senate, and the House that is the f*ckin' embarassment.

    Parent

    kdog, some days what can i say. (none / 0) (#165)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:13:07 PM EST
    you're the man!

    Parent
    Yeah yeah yeah.... (none / 0) (#217)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:38:37 PM EST
    hellothere...till the next time I go on a Clinton rant that is:)

    I'd vote for you if you ran...I think you're one of the good souls...unlike some of your more militant Camp Clinton cronies...they kinda scare me a little:)

    Look whose talking right...I'm gonna end up in a mighty strange voting bloc myself...

    Parent

    This is America. (5.00 / 0) (#151)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:58:57 PM EST
    We all have complaints.

    Hillary is the best qualified candidate to beat McCain.

    Obama has the backing of a pathethic dem party and the media.

    Just like Bush.  How horrifying is that.

    OMG.

    Parent

    please don't lecture us as if we (5.00 / 0) (#164)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:12:08 PM EST
    are children. we know and understand everything we need to without that.

    Parent
    Racism? or racial resentment? (none / 0) (#141)
    by songster on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:55:04 PM EST
    My first reaction was to be shocked at the racism.  Then I thought again. She said "an inadequate black male."  She didn't say inadequate because black.  To me that implies inadequate, and winning because the party would rather lose than be called racist, or nominate a woman.

    Not a pretty picture, however.  I've been sad about it since seeing it last night.  This is what we've come to, after so many of us were looking forward to the first nonwhite president.


    Parent

    Hey, folks, she's offended... (none / 0) (#210)
    by katana on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:21:25 PM EST
    I am offended.  Please remove.

    Of course you're offended.  On what hour, of what day, of which month are Obama admirers not offended?

    Harriett stood up for herself, and to an Obama supporter, an older, white woman standing up for herself is, by definition, offensive to Obama.  (As is anybody not an Obama-acolyte who stands up for herself, and, of course, himself.)

    And therefore, you--though not evidently an African-American man youself--waste not a nanosecond before you leap to the barricades to not only announce how offended you but to demand that a link be removed from the site.

    In all due respect (which, I'm chagrined to say, isn't much), may I ask, who are you to be offended, and who are you to demand that the site-master do anything other than let you visit here?

    You label Harriett the Led Zepplin of the hearings.  To judge by your posts, it wouldn't be inappropriate to label you the Milli Vanilli of this thread.  


    Parent

    I read Tomasky's piece this morning. (none / 0) (#45)
    by Boston Boomer on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:46:27 PM EST
    I was thinking it was pretty good until I read the line that you highlighted.  I assumed he was being deliberately obtuse.  It's so annoying that the media doesn't check facts.  They just report the "facts" they like and the ones they don't like they "accidentally" get wrong.


    Most of the MSM (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by kenoshaMarge on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:13:08 PM EST
    is either "deliberately Obtuse" or could it be that many of them are just incompetent hacks? As my mother used to say: "six of one - half dozen of another."

    Parent
    Interesting that you wrote about this today. (none / 0) (#89)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:22:20 PM EST
    I was out earlier and had CNN on the radio in my car.  At the top of the hour (3 pm CST) they played a clip from Bill Clinton saying that he thought he had been done with politics but then Hillary decided to run.......blah blah blah.  What struck me was that it didn't really sound like Bill.  Maybe it was just me, but his voice sounded deeper and slower, almost slurred.  Do you think that was intentional on CNN's part?  It was really weird and stayed with me.  Anyone else hear this?

    If it was the same clip I heard (5.00 / 0) (#166)
    by standingup on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:15:07 PM EST
    His voice did not sound the same but I thought it was full of emotion, perhaps on the verge of a few tears.  I don't care what they say about him or them as a couple, he worked his heart out for her campaign.  

    Parent
    bill has put forth more of an effort (5.00 / 2) (#171)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:19:50 PM EST
    than obama and michelle combined in the number of trips and speeches he has made and given. he worked his heart out for his wife. he is tired very tired. all of us are tired.

    Parent
    How? Just tired? Sore throat? (none / 0) (#112)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:36:49 PM EST
    BTD, your own reporting is off. (none / 0) (#104)
    by masslib on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:32:20 PM EST
    The other day you said BO had a lead of 115k.  Then after PR you gave him a lead of 20K.  That doesn't compute.

    True (none / 0) (#122)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:41:34 PM EST
    But I reran my math. I was wrong with my 112k number.

    I'll show my work after tomorrow night.

    Parent

    Don't bother. You are giving (none / 0) (#154)
    by masslib on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:02:22 PM EST
    Obama way more votes than he deserves already.  Face it, she got more votes.

    Parent
    I think he knows perfectly well what she meant (none / 0) (#194)
    by akaEloise on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:42:45 PM EST
    He's trying to be cute and write breezy, informal copy.  It's part of the trend of mainstream journalists trying to be more like bloggers (or more like what they think bloggers are like) because they think this will bring their straying audience back into the fold.  Unfortunately, most of these journalists are not used to writing without an editor or two looking over their shoulder and challenging their assumptions.  And newsroom budgets don't allow for that level of staffing any more.  

    Why do some Obama supporters (none / 0) (#196)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:46:34 PM EST
    sound so much like Right Wingnuts?  Am I the only one who thinks this way?  

    Some of the posts on this particular thread remind me so much of the Wingnut posts from 1998.  Are we get recycled material?  

    yes. Not even original attacks. (none / 0) (#219)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:52:25 PM EST
    False journalism should be no surprise (none / 0) (#198)
    by wurman on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:48:00 PM EST
    Here at Talk Left the phony reporting needs to be recognized as a constant function of the day-to-day business of government.  Several comments refer to wishing that reporters, talking heads, pundits & pontificators "do their jobs."  They are very professionally doing the jobs they are paid to do.

    The plausibility factor falls apart because of a failure by most readers to recognize the actual paymaster for media folks in the USA.

    Here's a link to Tripod,  I don't hold the site as a "go to" source, however the quotations are accurate & on point to any discussion of the media in general & specific reporters.  They simply do their master's bidding.

    "The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media."
    --William Colby, former CIA Director, quoted by Dave Mcgowan, Derailing Democracy

    "You could get a journalist cheaper than a good call girl, for a couple hundred dollars a month."
    --CIA operative, discussing the availability and prices of journalists willing to peddle CIA propaganda and cover stories. Katherine the Great, by Deborah Davis

    "There is quite an incredible spread of relationships.  You don't need to manipulate Time magazine, for example, because there are [Central Intelligence] Agency people at the management level."
    --William B. Bader, former CIA intelligence officer, briefing members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, The CIA and the Media, by Carl Bernstein

    "The Agency's relationship with [The New York] Times was by far its most valuable among newspapers, according to CIA officials.  [It was] general Times policy ... to provide assistance to the CIA whenever possible."
    --The CIA and the Media, by Carl Bernstein

    The direct connection between call girls & reporters is not without merit, although Colby's statement is the most relevant & accurate.


    The media are generally lazy (none / 0) (#205)
    by gandy007 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:13:15 PM EST
    Having dealt with the media; print, TV, and otherwise, in my earlier incarnation, I consider that to be a fact.

    They would come to me, expecting to be spoon fed complex information broken down into baby bites.  In addition, as a result of this laziness, they are notorious for copying each other and thus perpetuating misinformation, ad infinitum.

    To me a good and insidious example of this is the general misconception about the Michigan "compromise".  This relates to the idea that the Clinton campaign is quibbling over a mere four delegates.  Admittedly, if this were so, it would come off as a bit petty.

    Sorry for the length of the following, but I would like some input before I disseminate this further.
    I sent it to the writers mentioned by you, BTD, with regard to the article in the WSJ about how Bill was a deal breaker for naming Hillary VP. It was my attempt to educate them, but if I misspoke I would appreciate being corrected.  All I've learned about it has been essentially through osmosis here.

    "Overall a thorough article.[Had to throw them something to get them to read this.  Sorry for the subterfuge]

    That is, with one understandable, but glaring, error, unless I misunderstood the implications. You say, "Sen. Clinton won the Michigan primary with 55% of the vote; 40% went to "uncommitted." She argued that she deserved 73 delegates. Instead, the committee gave her 69, to 59 for
    Sen. Obama."

    The common misunderstanding among the vast majority of the media seems to be that what is at stake is 4 delegates. While that is actually an 8
    delegate swing, that is hardly the issue. To argue over such a seemingly trivial matter seems petty.   Unfortunately a poorly worded statement by Ickes and Flournoy helped to foster this idea.  While I don't have the statement before me it went something like this, "not only did they give Obama 55 uncommitted delegates, they also gave him 4 of Clinton's". This can be misconstrued as acquiescing in the 55, however grudgingly.  The
    statement went on with some elegant language about why this was unfair. Bad focus. In my opinion, the emphasis should have been on the holy rules.

    The truth is that the actual Clinton position, as I understand it, which should have been stated in plain English, was that she should have gotten 73 delegates and he should have gotten none. This result because he was not on the ballot.  Worse, he affirmatively took his name off the ballot for tactical reasons.

    This 118 delegate swing would close the gap substantially and change the magic number upwards, giving Clinton some breathing room.

    By their own sacrosanct rules, neither the DNC or the Rules Committee has the power to conjure up delegates not based on votes received.  The rules specifically prohibit the delegates of one candidate to be transfered to another, much less to one not even on the ballot. Further, the almighty rules say that the status and integrity of uncommitted delegates shall be given the same status and protection as that of  committed delegates.

    If you don't believe me, consult with a rules expert, just not Donna Brazile who still has the nerve to call herself uncommitted for cover.

    Thank you for your consideration."

    Hope this is not too long.

     

    Oops (none / 0) (#215)
    by gandy007 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:36:14 PM EST
    Looks like  my math was off.  She would only have 4 more, but he would have 59 less. More like a 63
    delegate difference. The most important aspect is, of course, that it puts Obama 59 delegates further away.

    Big change, but not a 118 delegate swing.

    BTW, while writing this, I checked my email and found this from from June Kromholz, the WSJ writer:

    "Thanks for the note.  I understand the courts have refused to entertain intra-party lawsuits, which rules out legal redress.  That means any
    appeal must go to the credentials committee, where 25% of the members must sign onto a minority report for it to be reconsidered.  Without
    that, as I understand it, the rules committee has the discretion to take the action it did."

    June Kronholz

    Can she possibly be correct?

    Parent

    That is pretty sad (none / 0) (#207)
    by vicsan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:13:49 PM EST
    that he wouldn't know what she was yelling about. If I know what she's talking about, surely a political reporter should know. shaking head in frustration

    Does anyone wonder why we are in the situation we find ourselves? I don't. The media is inept, to say it as kindly as I can.:(