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Thursday Afternoon Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:10:57 PM EST
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Thanks to Big Tent Democrat and TChris for their posts today -- I'm at work and won't be writing until tonight.

Here's an open thread for those of you with other topics on your mind. Please, as always, keep it civil.

< Reactions to Supreme Court Detainee Decision | Probably Innocent, But Still Doing Time >

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    Thursday Afternoon Open Thread | 191 comments (191 topical)
    Top Chef (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Artoo on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:12:18 PM EST
    Who else is glad Lisa didn't win?

    Lisa has been nasty the entire time.... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:25:55 PM EST
    Stephanie deserved her win....felt sorry for Richard though.

    [ Parent ]
    Am thrilled that Stephanie (5.00 / 0) (#144)
    by kredwyn on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:27:06 PM EST
    did win.

    I had my fingers crossed that Lisa wouldn't.

    Did they drop Antonia because they wanted the drama factor that is Lisa?

    I sure hope not.

    [ Parent ]

    Eh, Antonia was kinda of crybaby (none / 0) (#173)
    by angie on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:56:39 PM EST
    people who volunteer to go on these shows and then start crying on DAY TWO about missing their family/kids kind of rub me the wrong way -- no one held a gun to your head, sister. Geesh.
    I'm glad as heck Lisa didn't win and am even more thrilled that "Mr. A Little Too Big For His Britches" got a smack down as well. Maybe if he hadn't waisted all that time making "tabasco ice balls" (which he ended up not using) he could have seasoned his food a little better. Plus, that was the THIRD time he made that "banana scallop" dessert and been oh-so-impressed with himself for doing so. Change the record, dude.
    BTW -- did I hear him correctly? He has a wife? Color me surprised.

    [ Parent ]
    Tabasco Ice Balls....three words you (none / 0) (#199)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:44:12 PM EST
    never thought you would see on TL... :)
    A wife, and a baby on the way...
    I liked Antonia...thought she had a better chance than always at the bottom three Lisa.

    [ Parent ]
    Me (none / 0) (#2)
    by Mary Mary on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:15:19 PM EST
    Though I thought she put out a good meal in the finale.

    [ Parent ]
    PLEASE (none / 0) (#3)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:15:22 PM EST
    Don't mention who won.  I am glad Lisa didn't but I didn't see the finale yet I taped it and am watching tonight.

    [ Parent ]
    Go Lakers. (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:18:34 PM EST


    Go Celtics (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:20:06 PM EST
    If we can come that close to winning in LA with Paul Pierce scoring 5 points I can't wait to see what happens tonight.

    [ Parent ]
    It's up to David Stern.... (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:30:00 PM EST
    which way is the fix in?

    Since he's so busy rigging things the least he could have done was rig the lottery for my Knicks again...lol.

    [ Parent ]

    Oh yea (none / 0) (#66)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:05:00 PM EST
    Although I don't think the Knicks could win with all the refs in the league helping them.  No Offense :)

    Glad to hear you're not a Yankees fan though.

    [ Parent ]

    None taken.... (none / 0) (#75)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:11:06 PM EST
    I agree...it would take a lot more than the invisible hand of David Stern to make the Knicks competitive.

    In NY any serious fan isn't allowed to like both teams...I hate the Yankees as much as I hate the Braves, Phils, and Cardinals:)

    [ Parent ]

    Go Padres! (none / 0) (#21)
    by otherlisa on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:31:25 PM EST
    I don't have a dog in the NBA hunt...

    [ Parent ]
    My thoughts exactly. Beat LA. (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:32:44 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    You guys are on my sh*t list... (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:41:49 PM EST
    after your sweep of my Mets last week.  Just when I think they're turning it around they lose 5 in a row.

    What a frustrating club...at least there up 2-0 today in the 5th coming off last night's nail-biting win.  Please go the distance Johan!

    [ Parent ]

    Hey, Pads have been in the tank all (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:44:41 PM EST
    season.  Give us a break.

    [ Parent ]
    Doing better, though! (none / 0) (#42)
    by otherlisa on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:49:38 PM EST
    I was at the last of the Padres' four in a row, 2-1 victories this last Saturday.

    Whatta game!

    With the NL West in the shape it's in right now, the Pads may still have their shot.

    [ Parent ]

    Good job last night. Those Dodgers (none / 0) (#45)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:51:08 PM EST
    fans were going hoarse, to no avail.  

    [ Parent ]
    And Peavy's back today (none / 0) (#47)
    by otherlisa on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:53:23 PM EST
    Fingers crossed!

    Am I the only one who misses Milton Bradley though, just a little bit? I know he's trouble on the hoof, but I can't help it, I have a soft spot for the guy.

    [ Parent ]

    I was at the game when the first base (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:57:29 PM EST
    umpire taunted Bradley until he cracked, going for the umpire's throat.  I miss him too.  Good baseball player.  

    [ Parent ]
    and he really wants to do well (none / 0) (#58)
    by otherlisa on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:00:15 PM EST
    That umpire should have been suspended, not Bradley. It was shameful.

    [ Parent ]
    Sounds like... (none / 0) (#51)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:56:43 PM EST
    ...the Mets may be in the market for a new coach soon?

    [ Parent ]
    Not soon enough in my opinion.... (none / 0) (#64)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:04:10 PM EST
    I'm a big fan of the Lou Piniella/Billy Martin style of managing....Willie is way too laid back for my taste. My dream choice would be Wally Backman.

    But I think ownership will give him the rest of the year to get it turned around.

    [ Parent ]

    You can have Clint Hurdle... (none / 0) (#74)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:09:32 PM EST
    ...if you'd like.  I can't understand how you go from the WS to the bottom of the lousy NL Western division and still have a job.  

    Where's Earl Weaver when you need him?!?

    [ Parent ]

    No thanks Mile.... (none / 0) (#77)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:13:17 PM EST
    your Rockies clubhouse too eerily resembles a religous cult.

    I guess the Christian God abandoned your guys this year:)  

    [ Parent ]

    Yeah... (none / 0) (#82)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:17:36 PM EST
    ...that was truly sad.  Baseball for Jebus.  Spare me.  

    I guess fundies can't run a government or a baseball team.

    [ Parent ]

    Here's a good image for you Mets fans (none / 0) (#169)
    by scribe on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:51:39 PM EST
    "Universal sign for choking"

    0r, perhaps this one (you can use it for wallpaper, too!)

    It'll haunt them.

    That pile of old clothes along the side of the L.I.E.?  That was Mr. Met, Roadkill.

    After some Shea drunk took it on himself to beat up on Mr. Met.  Ahh, New Yawk.

    [ Parent ]

    How about Gasol and Odom? (none / 0) (#89)
    by Paladin on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:28:22 PM EST
    Those guys have disappeared in this series.  They dominated throughout the Western Conference playoffs.  So if they come back, it would be just as big as Pierce.

    But I'm not feeling too confident.  Tonight will be a big test.

    [ Parent ]

    Difference is (none / 0) (#97)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:33:34 PM EST
    Pierce has played well against the lakers, and Gasol and Odom have struggled against the Celtics.  I have more confidence that Pierce's game is more of a fluke than a trend.  KG has a way of making good players inneffective on offense.  That's why he's so important even when he's not shooting well.

    Tonight is huge though.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm afraid you're right (none / 0) (#142)
    by Paladin on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:24:53 PM EST
    It's the Celtics who are stopping Gasol and Odom, not that they are necessarily having bad games.  The Celtics have a great defense.  

    The Lakers have a great future though.  Bynum will be back next year and Gasol will move to power forward and Odom to small forward.

    You guys are definitely in a good position for this series.

    [ Parent ]

    This series is our only shot (none / 0) (#150)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:32:35 PM EST
    Lakers do have a better future ahead, I think if the Celtics don't win now, we won't win with this team.  The one thing I am optimistic about is KG does seem to be a great coach for the young players we do have and they are learning on the biggest stage possible.

    [ Parent ]
    Rivers (none / 0) (#165)
    by Paladin on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:49:54 PM EST
    Very impressed with him.  So far, he is out-coaching Jackson.  We should both feel pretty good regardless - both teams' futures looked very bleak at the beginning of the season.

    Good luck tonight, though I'll be cheering for the purple and gold.

    [ Parent ]

    More bad news from Zimbabwe (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:19:10 PM EST
    Treason charge on Opposition Party's #2
    Obama moved major DNC ops to Chicago. (5.00 / 6) (#8)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:19:47 PM EST
    Link via Politico

    Figured you'd all be happy about this ;-).

    Resistance is futile-Obama is THE Party now (5.00 / 7) (#11)
    by Rhouse on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:23:11 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    This is just wrong.... (5.00 / 5) (#136)
    by Aqua Blue on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:14:17 PM EST
    Obama and DNC are "1"?

    What about all the other democrats in the DNC?

    Oh...I almost forgot...Obama is the "chosen" ONE.

    Each day, I get more sickened with this total hijacking.    I really did not see this coming...accusing the Clintons of racism, dirty tricks.   What a scam.

    I did not realize the lengths Obama people would go to steal the Presidency and the Democratic
    Party.

    Really sad.   The "hope" candidate has left me "hopeless".


    [ Parent ]

    I guess the New Politics (5.00 / 15) (#16)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:29:15 PM EST
    is Chicago Politics.

    Could the fix have been any more in for Obama? You can't tell me he and the DNC haven't been planning this for a long time.

    This makes me ill.

    [ Parent ]

    Thread up on myDD about this (5.00 / 7) (#22)
    by otherlisa on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:32:38 PM EST
    and of course the Obamacans are praising this decision to the skies - it "saves money!" "shows he wants to win!"

    I don't see how I can vote for this man. I really don't.

    [ Parent ]

    For the short term it MAY save money (5.00 / 20) (#86)
    by tree on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:26:51 PM EST
    but it doesn't in the long term. Either Obama wins, in which case it makes the most sense for the DNC to be in Washington, DC, like it is now, or he loses, in which case it makes absolutely no sense for it to be in Chicago, hometown of the latest Democratic loser. Unless we want to make it like a perverse America's Cup, where the "trophy" DNC resides in the hometown of the losing Presidential candidate for four years until the next losing Democrat is selected.  

    In the short term it also allows a quiet purge of DNC staff who aren't willing or able to pick up and move to Chicago, to be replaced with Obama loyalists. Sounds like real old time politics, ala Tammany Hall. Everything old is new again!

    [ Parent ]

    Ding, ding, ding! We gave a winner! Last paragraph (5.00 / 13) (#96)
    by jawbone on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:33:08 PM EST
    is probably the real reason.

    A purge, required loyalty oaths, etc.

    Authortarian left, anyone?

    [ Parent ]

    And I suppose the blogger boyz (5.00 / 5) (#130)
    by pie on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:01:30 PM EST
    who don't go along will be shut out of info and juicy blog posts.

    Hmmmmmm.

    [ Parent ]

    so much for change from the bottom up (5.00 / 5) (#140)
    by shannon on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:22:19 PM EST
    I wasn't asked about this. Were you??

    [ Parent ]
    From the bottom (5.00 / 5) (#179)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:04:41 PM EST
    of your pockets, up to Barack's cash register.

    Ka-CHING!

    [ Parent ]

    If Obama decided (4.83 / 12) (#25)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:36:07 PM EST
    to move the Party to DC tomorrow, they'd defend that too.

    They scare me. Obama scares me.

    I'm scared. Did I mention that?

    I've got to choose between a crazy neo-con and a crazy religio-con.

    Awesome.

    [ Parent ]

    And unbelievably, with all that is (5.00 / 6) (#79)
    by zfran on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:14:11 PM EST
    said here, all we read about, all we know (and some we don't know yet), no one, absolutely no one who is in a position of authority, is saying or doing anything. Some here have written letters and emails and either none have been answered or responses have been negative...so, what do we do about this vile hate, seizing of our party and the outrage?

    [ Parent ]
    Stop voting (5.00 / 9) (#87)
    by txpolitico67 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:27:04 PM EST
    and sending the DNC money.  No votes and no $$$=death of any political endeavor.

    [ Parent ]
    "Save Money", My Aunt's Grandmother! (5.00 / 3) (#152)
    by creeper on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:34:19 PM EST
    How much do you think it's going to cost them to make the move?

    [ Parent ]
    I have stopped, I stopped a long (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by zfran on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:27:16 PM EST
    time ago, altho' this is a start, will they notice, no. The hate has been allowed out of the bag and it is not going back in. This is becoming Bizarroland.

    [ Parent ]
    Glad I stopped donating (5.00 / 8) (#65)
    by shannon on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:04:56 PM EST
    to the DNC after the Iowa. Gave all my available funds to Hillary -- proudly.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama (5.00 / 3) (#127)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:53:24 PM EST
    Could only wish it ran like Chicago! Mayor Daley has a very high approval rating even among the AA community and those tacky beer drinkin blue collar folks. Daley is too smart to throw the Democratic base under the bus.

    [ Parent ]
    Before everyone freaks out about this.... (2.50 / 4) (#84)
    by r15 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:24:42 PM EST
    There's actually a very good reason for this move. Obama doesn't want to repeat the mistakes of 2004, where Kerry had to fight the DNC at the same time he was trying to fight the Republicans.

    [ Parent ]
    Chicago (5.00 / 12) (#85)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:26:26 PM EST
    is synonymous for many to corruption.  If nothing else, it's great fodder for the RNC 527's to further peg Obama as a corrupt Chicago politician.

    Personally, Obama is creepy.  I don't like anything he's doing.

    [ Parent ]

    And, Obama (5.00 / 2) (#191)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:21:02 PM EST
    is synonymous with Chicago. His friends solidify that.

    [ Parent ]
    Sounds like the fighting with the DNC (5.00 / 6) (#100)
    by tree on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:34:16 PM EST
    was won by Kerry quite handily. That worked out well, didn't it? Well, one result of the hostile takeover will be that no one will be able to honestly blame Obama's loss on anyone but him and his campaign.

    [ Parent ]
    Where did you get the idea (none / 0) (#110)
    by r15 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:41:50 PM EST
    that the takeover was hostile?

    Dean and Obama have the same ideas about the 50 state strategy, etc.

    [ Parent ]

    Its a corporate term (5.00 / 3) (#128)
    by tree on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:56:25 PM EST
     The Obama campaign just won the proxy fight and is now busy subsuming the DNC under its banner.  

    [ Parent ]
    Hmm (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by lilburro on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:39:29 PM EST
    I don't know much at all about DNC organization and the way responsibility is delegated...but is it just me or does it seem like Howard Dean has no power at all?  Is the DNC always this mutable?  

    [ Parent ]
    And no guts either (5.00 / 6) (#34)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:45:10 PM EST
    If I were him I would have resigned a long time ago.

    [ Parent ]
    I have no idea (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Step Beyond on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:45:39 PM EST
    I don't remember reading about a take over of the DNC when Kerry was the nominee. Or any other time either actually. Of course that doesn't mean it didn't happen since I could just have forgotten, never read it or no one talked/wrote about it.

    Hopefully someone with more knowledge will post and compare this to past elections.

    [ Parent ]

    This is extreme. BC ran his CAMPAIGN in AK (5.00 / 6) (#41)
    by catfish on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:48:48 PM EST
    but he didn't up and relocate the entire DNC. Some in the DNC may not even vote Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    Happy? (5.00 / 13) (#88)
    by miriam on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:28:11 PM EST
    I've been laughing hysterically since I read the earlier post. Chicago, Illinois, where the former governor is about to be indicted.  Where political corruption is more common as bread.  Where Patrick Fitzgerald has had a field day (or, rather, a field decade). Where Tony Rezko, William Ayres, and Jeremiah Wright reside.  Where Trinity Church has a different anti-white, anti-American guest pastor ranting every other week.

    What a brilliant tactic to keep those perpetual Obama/Chicago scandals in the news!  Way to go Obama campaign!  

    [ Parent ]

    Obama camp says they can save money by using (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by jawbone on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:28:30 PM EST
    DNC people. I thought there were supposed to be some ditinctions between the Party campaigning and the nominees, in that certain advertising cldn't be coordinated. But I know virtually nothing about campaign finance law. Does that kick in only if Federal matching funds are used by the candidate? Does this mean Obama means to self-finance?

    And, is anyone amazed that so many people will be asked to move to Chicago for the campaign--who will then need to be moved back to DC? Or is Obama going to move the DNC to Chicago?

    WOW!

    Lambert wrote earlier about a leveraged buyout or takeover.  If it's a takeover, it seems pretty friendly.

    Any thoughts about what is really going on here?

    [ Parent ]

    Move the DNC to Chicago? (5.00 / 6) (#115)
    by miriam on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:45:19 PM EST
    Hell, he's going to move the US capitol to Chicago.  When Obama says change, he means CHANGE! And Washington, D.C. is so 19th and 20th century, don't ya know?

    [ Parent ]
    I wondered about this also (5.00 / 3) (#167)
    by Step Beyond on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:51:01 PM EST
    How does it work when the candidates have to fill out expense reports and filings. Can they have the DNC pay for a staff member who is also working for the Obama campaign? Donations to a candidate are restricted/capped, but you could also donate to the DNC then and it would pay for the same staffers. How is that legal?

    That article states:

    The move may also save the campaign money, as the Obama campaign can use DNC salaries and staff to pay for elements of its organizing campaign and avoid some of the duplication that has often dogged presidential efforts.


    [ Parent ]
    Easy (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by waldenpond on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:12:57 PM EST
    GOTV, which is a big part of Obama's GE strategy, can be covered by the DNC.

    Advertising... run it against the Repub candidate and Obama saves money.  Didn't the DNC already run a commercial?

    Research... using marketing data is also being used by the Obama campaign.  The DNC can cover this also as increasing voter turnout.

    Staffing... allocate the salaries.  The hours will be billed to the separate accounts.  If the DNC was not involved, the Obama campaign would pick up all of the cost.  They will micromanage the dollars to bill as much as possible to the DNC.

    [ Parent ]

    Never easy (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by Step Beyond on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:39:22 PM EST
    when things are regulated. I found this.

    Apparently they can work together but the DNC would have a spending limit in that work (around 19 million this year). Plus there are restrictions.

    [ Parent ]

    They'll be ver y happy together... (5.00 / 4) (#145)
    by kredwyn on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:30:27 PM EST
    in the birthplace of Chicago machine politics...and away from the "seat of power" in DC.

    [ Parent ]
    Shades of Avignon (5.00 / 3) (#146)
    by Pol C on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:30:41 PM EST
    Does Obama plan to move the White House to Chicago, too?


    [ Parent ]
    I'm done. I can't vote for him (4.75 / 16) (#38)
    by catfish on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:48:00 PM EST
    too extreme, too paranoid, to arrogant. All the signs are there - no room to disagree, no opponents allowed on the ballot.

    Moves immediately and radically to consolidate power underneath him.

    [ Parent ]

    This does it for me...and just when I (5.00 / 5) (#143)
    by Aqua Blue on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:25:08 PM EST
    was having some second thoughts to give Obama a break and some time.

    Howard Dean undermined Hillary Clinton and cost her the nomination.

    I won't back Chicago-type politics.   Has the Democratic Party become the Soprano Party now?

    No more donations to DNC.  I may send in my card.
    I am outraged that Obama thinks he owns the party simply because he is the nominee.

    This gets worse every day.

    [ Parent ]

    He's not even the nominee yet (5.00 / 6) (#154)
    by catfish on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:36:59 PM EST
    Yes, it does get worse every day.

    [ Parent ]
    Our presumptive nominee (5.00 / 6) (#172)
    by shannon on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:54:13 PM EST
    is being quite presumptuous.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Steve M on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:29:56 PM EST
    Check out Michelle Malkin's strident defense!

    excerpt from Michelle's "thank you" (4.00 / 1) (#125)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:52:21 PM EST
    speech for Obama's successful 2004 Senate race...

    "Let me thank my pastor, Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. (ph) of Trinity United Church of Christ, fellow Trinitarians out there. Let me thank all the elected officials who have stood by me through thick and through thin but most of all let me thank my family."

    [ Parent ]

    She also thanked her mother-in-law, (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:18:49 PM EST
    Marian.

    Hard to figure out that one! Isn't a mother-in-law the mother of your spouse? In her case, Stanley?

    [ Parent ]

    GO Kucinich! (5.00 / 5) (#32)
    by Lora on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:43:46 PM EST
    Kucinich:

    "Thirty days from now, if there is no action, I will be bringing the resolution up again, and I won't be the only one reading it. We'll come back and many of us will be reading this [on the House floor], and we'll come back with 60 articles, not 35."

    If worse comes to worse, there's always a write-in vote (just KIDDING ;-) )

    Is this the impeachment resolution? (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:47:07 PM EST
    Where are you seeing this?

    [ Parent ]
    FYI on the idiom... (none / 0) (#44)
    by Artoo on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:50:16 PM EST
    It's actually, "if worse comes to worst".

    [ Parent ]
    thanks (none / 0) (#50)
    by Lora on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:55:42 PM EST
    I like accuracy.  I will take note.

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks for not freaking out (none / 0) (#57)
    by Artoo on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:00:02 PM EST
    I like to pick nits and so that gets me into trouble sometimes. I never try to be snooty about it, but some people seem to think that wanting things to be correct automatically makes one snooty.

    But, if you're the kind of person who likes accuracy, then you may enjoy this book:

    Eats, Shoots, and Leaves

    [ Parent ]

    I like accuracy too. (none / 0) (#73)
    by davnee on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:09:07 PM EST
    And sometimes it is hard to verify the correct form of some of these sayings.  The one that tortures me is to boot.  I always want to write "too boot," because too makes more sense to me in a phrase that means moreover or as well.

    [ Parent ]
    That is one of my favorites! (none / 0) (#78)
    by samanthasmom on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:14:06 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    2 links (none / 0) (#49)
    by Lora on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:54:40 PM EST
    Sorry, I thought I put the link in the first post.  At Brad Blog.

    Also, there are almost 22,000 who have signed the peition here.  Let's keep it going, let's show them how many folks out here support him.

    [ Parent ]

    Thanks, Lora. :-) (none / 0) (#56)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:59:44 PM EST
    Too bad Kucinich was running for President again this year - he could have focused all his efforts on impeachment. Maybe he could have infused some of his fellow Congresscritters with a little more spine.

    [ Parent ]
    I say.... (none / 0) (#69)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:06:59 PM EST
    too bad nobody voted for him in the primaries.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh. Dennis (none / 0) (#81)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:16:55 PM EST
    had no shot, but he is just about as lefty as I am. :-)

    [ Parent ]
    You can tell... (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:40:50 PM EST
    who the good candidates are by their chances of success...the better the candidate, the less of a shot they have.

    And when the media never talks about a candidate, you know they are really really good.

    [ Parent ]

    Hee hee hee hee... (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:44:18 PM EST
    you are the best Ron Paul supporter evah! :-)

    [ Parent ]
    Paul, Kucinich, Gravel.... (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:12:42 PM EST
    I'm easy...anybody but an entrenched, establishment Dem or Repub.

    Monkeywrench in '08!...:)

    [ Parent ]

    the Impeachment bill is another scam (none / 0) (#60)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:00:47 PM EST
    like the Dems "oil company" and "unemployment benefits" bills this week - with no teeth, but all designed to make Repubs look bad.

    Two months ago, Obama and Dems were railing against Hillary's gas tax suspension proposal. But they were on the Senate floor this week fully supporting a similar proposal while the Repubs used Obama's talking points against Hillary's proposal - "it won't work, the oil companies will just raise prices."

    Same with the unemployment benefits bill. Not all states are averaging 5.5% unemployment, but Dems want to pretend they do - to make Repubs look bad for voting against it.


    [ Parent ]

    Repubs look bad on their own (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by Lora on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:36:06 PM EST
    No "scam" needed to make the Repubs look bad.  They do that all by themselves.  What's worse is to let them get away with it without even a whimper.  Kucinich is doing what a responsible elected representative ought to do.

    [ Parent ]
    my point is... (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:01:56 PM EST
    Kucinich's impeachment bill isn't leaving the House - especially since the Dem presidential nominee is the only Dem to state Bush and Cheney have not committed impeachable offenses.


    [ Parent ]
    Is there another time he said something like that (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Burned on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:45:25 PM EST
    Besides this one?
    Obama, a Harvard law school graduate and former lecturer on constitutional law at the University of Chicago, said impeachment should not be used as a standard political tool.
    "I think you reserve impeachment for grave, grave breaches, and intentional breaches of the president's authority," he said.

    USA Today

    [ Parent ]

    Is it just me ... (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:47:56 PM EST
    or are the usual "I don't wanna be VP" denials a little stronger than in previous elections?

    Webb offered one on Tavis Smiley last night, and though it wasn't Shermanesque, it sounded convincing.

    Anything here or am I reading too much into the standard Veep posturing?

    like someone said (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:06:43 PM EST
    in a previous thread.  they are all afraid of being blamed for his losing.

    [ Parent ]
    Or perhaps they've seen the (5.00 / 0) (#72)
    by zfran on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:07:55 PM EST
    light!

    [ Parent ]
    Or,,,,does not want to lose next reelection... (5.00 / 0) (#148)
    by Aqua Blue on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:30:58 PM EST
    women have long memories.    If Hillary does not get asked to be VP, many females will hold a grudge.

    [ Parent ]
    Was wondering about this too (5.00 / 0) (#193)
    by Valhalla on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:27:42 PM EST
    I don't remember a lot of VP refusals in the past, but then, I'm not sure I paid much attention to VP choices.

    I feel like usually everyone's all coy about it.

    [ Parent ]

    More info please (none / 0) (#46)
    by waldenpond on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:53:07 PM EST
    What did Webb say? Even better, do you have a link to video or transcript?

    [ Parent ]
    I cannot find the exact quote ... (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:11:48 PM EST
    Smiley's site only has a clip, not featuring this comment.

    But what he said was something like this, "Barack is a friend. I will do anything to help Barack.  But I'm not interested in being VP."

    That's not verbatim.  But it's very close to what he said.

    [ Parent ]

    yes, that's very close to Webb's remarks (none / 0) (#133)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:05:06 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    He was on (none / 0) (#55)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:59:07 PM EST
    the Daily Show a couple of days ago and most certainly left the option open.

    Strickland is the only one who has categorically refused.

    [ Parent ]

    Webb said "no" to VP on Smiley (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:07:07 PM EST
    Listen here --
    http://tinyurl.com/6jqgc5


    [ Parent ]
    That clip doesn't ... (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:15:24 PM EST
    feature the comment.

    [ Parent ]
    Rendell said unequivocally "NO!" (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by miriam on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:31:08 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Webb said "no" to VP on Smiley (none / 0) (#62)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:01:42 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I saw (none / 0) (#200)
    by LoisInCo on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:45:10 PM EST
    Bill Richardson say he wouldn't refuse it!

    [ Parent ]
    x (5.00 / 5) (#43)
    by Mary Mary on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:50:03 PM EST
    Yes they do, don't they. Although I denounce the item, I do consider this poetic justice after the hue and cry over the Clintons' supposed racism.

    Blast from the past! (5.00 / 7) (#48)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:53:30 PM EST
    "I am really starting to see Obama as someone who will rush to embrace every right-wing talking point against every Democratic constituencies."  - Kos, 12/31/07

    (Responding to Obama's numerous vitriolic remarks against trial lawyers.)

    http://tinyurl.com/3sjt5w

    Obama bashes trial lawyers - again.
    Jan. 14, 2008
    http://tinyurl.com/4tlyr2

    Flippity-flippity-flop (5.00 / 5) (#83)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:18:39 PM EST
    goes Kos!

    He was right about Obama then.

    [ Parent ]

    Hillary for VP (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:02:41 PM EST
    I have had very mixed feellings on Hillary for VP until this thought occurred:
    Since Obama is looking to be a similar Prez as W, Hillary can take advantage of being the 4rth branch of gov't and run things behind the scenes from OVP. More of the same, right? Obama can complain about how being Prez is hard work and Hillary can wonk out (policy-wise).

    :)

    More on Kerry's primary challenger (5.00 / 7) (#93)
    by Valhalla on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:31:22 PM EST
    from the Globe today.

    this line was funny:

    And now, by backing Obama over Clinton, Kerry faces an opponent. That's not the kind of change he wants voters to believe in.
    D'oh! :-) (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:34:36 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Don't you love it? (5.00 / 8) (#102)
    by miriam on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:35:23 PM EST
    Globe:  "FOR THE FIRST time in 24 years, Senator John Kerry faces a Democratic primary challenge. For that, he blames Hillary Clinton."

    [ Parent ]
    bwahahahahaha (5.00 / 3) (#106)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:39:17 PM EST
    ohh dear,
    -wipes tear from eye-
    thank you for that


    [ Parent ]
    IACF! (5.00 / 5) (#107)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:39:36 PM EST
    Perfect.

    [ Parent ]
    I guess (5.00 / 5) (#109)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:41:14 PM EST
    not voting the way your constituents want has consequences after all.
    who knew?
    I know you I am contributing to.

    [ Parent ]
    I dunno (3.00 / 0) (#117)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:46:26 PM EST
    I mean I like Obama but even I think Kerry is a tool.  I think this is more a refferendum on Kerry than Obama.  I doubt Kennedy would have this problem if he was healthy.

    Kerry is just a bad politician.  He says offensive stuff all the time, constantly suffering from foot in mouth disease.  I swear the only reason he's even an okay senator is that Kennedy keeps him in line when he can.

    [ Parent ]

    You never know (5.00 / 0) (#126)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:52:27 PM EST
    if old is the reason not to vote for qualified candidates this year, he might not be unbeatable.

    [ Parent ]
    I agree Kerry's always been a bit of a tool (5.00 / 0) (#177)
    by Valhalla on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:03:45 PM EST
    but the support for Obama in spite of overwhelming support for Clinton in Mass. made it glaringly obvious at one point in time.

    [ Parent ]
    Hope all the Dems (5.00 / 5) (#112)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:43:18 PM EST
    that voted for Hillary vote for Kerry's challenger.  Kerry will lose by what, 23%?

    That's what he gets for endorsing agaisnt the will of the people of his state.  I guess he is blaming Hillary for being so dang popular in MA.

    [ Parent ]

    Plenty of Obama spporters will too (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:48:14 PM EST
    My whole family voted Obama and not one of us would vote for Kerry in a primary (g.e. is another story).

    [ Parent ]
    If Kerry loses (5.00 / 5) (#123)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:51:32 PM EST
    I could die happy.

    [ Parent ]
    I have already signed on to work on O'Reilly's (5.00 / 2) (#190)
    by samanthasmom on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:19:57 PM EST
    campaign. I can't promise you a win, but we'll do our best to make Kerry work a little harder this time. If anyone else lives in MA and would like to work for a new Democrat, his website is www.edoreilly.com.  Jeralyn, I know you said no recruiting, but this is asking Democrats to work for a Democrat.  It it's inappropriate, please delete.

    [ Parent ]
    bookmarked (none / 0) (#196)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:31:58 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    LOL (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by Valhalla on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:04:32 PM EST
    Finally, real unity within the Democratic Party.

    [ Parent ]
    He needs to be more careful (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:50:06 PM EST
    her supporters could hold that against him.

    I am beginning to think that politicians don't really pay attention to politics. Are these people not watching what has been going on out in the media?


    [ Parent ]

    Of course he does (5.00 / 4) (#138)
    by Nadai on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:20:53 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton - the scapegoat of loser Dems everywhere.  She ought to have that printed on bumperstickers.

    [ Parent ]
    Good grief. (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:17:22 PM EST
    He deserves to lose in the primary simply due to blaming Hillary. Every day I'm more astounded at the stupidity that comes from the party elite.

    [ Parent ]
    a lot of (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:31:59 PM EST
    these attacks aren't obamas fault but they're there and its why I think he won't be able to unite the country like he told us he could.