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Unity

I am amazed at the view expressed by Obama supporters that unifying the Democratic Party is a problem for Hillary Clinton. Like me, they all expect Barack Obama to be the nominee, but they insist that the problem of unifying the Democratic Party belongs to Hillary Clinton. This is an incredibly obtuse view. Obama is going to be the candidate who will win or lose in November. It will be HIS job to unify the Party. Ezra Klein does not see it that way:

[There is an] authentic, deep anger among Clinton supporters. And that's not a problem the Rules Committee can resolve. This one is up to Clinton herself.

Um no. That is up to the likely nominee, Barack Obama. It will be his campaign this Fall. Not Hillary Clinton's campaign.

POST SCRIPT: And here is Meteor Blades berating angry Clinton supporters. There is a winning strategy. Not. Unity? Not hardly. And maybe never if people like Ezra Klein and Meteor Blades have their way. Yelling at people who consider themselves aggrieved is not exactly a smart way to bring them back in the fold. Time for some OBAMA supporters to grow up.

Speaking for me only

Comments closed

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  • Display: Sort:
    Thank you, BTD. (5.00 / 29) (#1)
    by madamab on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:08:31 AM EST
    I am with you 100% on this one.

    As I said in the last thread, some Obama supporters appear to confuse "Unity" with "submission."

    Which candidate really has the low-information voters? The Obamans seem to be rather unable to understand the meanings of simple English words.


    There is a sense of entitlement (5.00 / 28) (#5)
    by andgarden on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:09:44 AM EST
    somewhere on the border of Obama and his supporters. It is really quite off-putting.

    [ Parent ]
    And yet they say (5.00 / 20) (#15)
    by madamab on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:17:16 AM EST
    that Hillary is arrogant and entitled.

    But what do they base that on? Mark Penn's campaign strategy?

    When HRC supporters say Obama is arrogant and entitled, they can point to specific words and deeds by the candidate himself. BitterCling comes to mind. Obama blames and derides voters for not voting for him. It's their fault for not understanding His Greatness.

    HRC would never do that or think that. She works her butt off for every vote.

    And this is how she's being rewarded. Torrents of lies and snickering disrespect being thrown at her by her own Party...and now an obvious rigging of the nomination by the DNC.

    I am just heartsick.

    [ Parent ]

    Frat House Still Open (5.00 / 8) (#241)
    by Athena on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:13:40 AM EST
    No, they won't "change."  That was just a slogan to distract from a lack of substance.

    This is who they are.  They have lived and partied in the frat house for many months now.  

    They have feasted on the derision of Hillary and are not willing to let it go - as it was the source of energy and bonding for these guys.

    What would they do without Hillary and her sweeties to kick around?

    [ Parent ]

    Obama has no supporters. (5.00 / 15) (#109)
    by befuddledvoter on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:40:24 AM EST
    He has followers.  That is an important distinction.  To now state that it is Clinton's burden to unify the party is laughable.   Recall Obama is the candiate of unity.  Let him roll up his sleeves and do the heavy lifting.  I doubt he has ever done that in his life.    

    [ Parent ]
    Nail, meet hammer (5.00 / 4) (#156)
    by livesinashoe on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:49:05 AM EST
    The PRINCE doesn't want to muss up his nice silk shirt.

    Let him roll up his sleeves and do the heavy lifting

    [ Parent ]

    Ah (none / 0) (#214)
    by Claw on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:06:39 AM EST
    Thanks.  I guess I'm a follower drinking kool-aid laced lattes.  I WAS a Clinton supporter but once I switched I turned into a follower.  That's very interesting.  
    On the topic, I didn't think the MI decision was entirely fair to Clinton.  Clearly, giving Obama zero delegates would be crazy.  Obviously some went to the polls and voted uncommitted (Obama)...others were trying to vote for Biden, Edwards, Richardson, et. al.
    I agree that the Obama camp needs to unify, but the constant insults from Clinton supporters (Obama's supporters are cutists, followers, kool-aid drinkers, naive, latte-drinkers, elitists)...it doesn't help the effort.

    [ Parent ]
    What effort? (5.00 / 4) (#267)
    by vigkat on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:23:41 AM EST
    We haven't seen any sincere effort to unify coming from the Obama camp.  Just words.

    [ Parent ]
    It's just that old patriarchy thing.... (5.00 / 4) (#40)
    by jawbone on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:24:05 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    It's pathological (5.00 / 21) (#2)
    by andgarden on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:08:58 AM EST
    and deeply rooted in WWTSBQ, I think.

    That's Because They Don't Understand (5.00 / 15) (#172)
    by BDB on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:53:11 AM EST
    what "Unity" means.  They think it means the end of the primary process.  That simply by winning that will bring about Unity because Hillary will be a good girl and endorse Obama and the rest of us will fall in line.

    There's only one problem with that.  My problems with Barack Obama and the Democratic Party have nothing to do with Hillary Clinton.  I'm not changing my registration later this week to unaffiliated because Hillary Clinton lost.  I'm changing my registration because the Democratic Party and its new leader have shown they do not share my values.  

    As much respect as I have for Hillary Clinton, if she showed up personally at my door and asked me to stay a registered Democrat, I wouldn't.  Same thing about voting for Obama.  

    Only Obama can win my vote.  He had the chance yesterday to take steps that would do that and, once again, he told me to go screw myself.  Well, he's not the only one who can change votes.  I can change mine, too.

    [ Parent ]

    I am waiting until after the election (5.00 / 4) (#278)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:27:20 AM EST
    to change my registration. For one simple reason. I want my vote of the undercard to come from a registered Democrat while leaving the top one blank and writing in Hillary Clinton. I don't want them to think it's an independent doing that, I want them to know that it's a Democrat who is disgusted with the Party and its candidate. Then I will switch to Independent.

    Although, I have considered remaining as a Democrat since that gives me leverage to complain and write letters to the DNC as an alleged constituent of theirs. But I will NOT support an unqualified candidate for President, no matter who it is. And I will not support a candidate who thinks I can be bullied or guilt-tripped into voting for him. I will not vote for a candidate who dismisses entire populations of voters with a sneer. This is not the person who can unite the Party, this is the person who has fractured it.

    Why should Hillary unite a Party that she had nothing to do with splintering? Obama is the "Uniter", let him unite the Party. It would be good practice for uniting the country. Long trips begin with little steps. If Obama does make it to the WH, it will be a long, strange trip indeed. But he can't do it without uniting the Party. It's HIS job, not Hillary's. He broke it, he can damn well fix it.

    [ Parent ]

    Oh, but some delusional (5.00 / 16) (#4)
    by pie on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:09:31 AM EST
    Obama supporter just told us in the previous thread that everyone's going to forget all about yesterday's proceedings in a few weeks.

    [There is an] authentic, deep anger among Clinton supporters.

    Heh.

    We're just women (5.00 / 24) (#21)
    by stillife on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:18:31 AM EST
    periodically, we get upset.

    [ Parent ]
    put away your claws, sweetie! (5.00 / 19) (#28)
    by dws3665 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:20:07 AM EST
    I'm a guy, so what's my excuse?

    [ Parent ]
    Sorry, sweetie! (5.00 / 18) (#43)
    by stillife on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:24:49 AM EST
    I guess you must be one of those bitter, low-information voters.  =)

    [ Parent ]
    ya'll watch it! the bus is starting! smile! (5.00 / 3) (#189)
    by hellothere on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:57:37 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Given that this particular bus ... (5.00 / 6) (#277)
    by Inky on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:27:01 AM EST
    is hell-bent on driving straight off a cliff, I'm perfectly happy to be thrown under it.

    [ Parent ]
    He's alienated numerous groups (5.00 / 9) (#44)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:25:15 AM EST
    do you belong to one of them? Do you need uniting?

    [ Parent ]
    heck (5.00 / 12) (#61)
    by dws3665 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:29:53 AM EST
    I'm just here for the pony!

    I shall name him ... "Hope."

    [ Parent ]

    I'm naming mine "Glue" (5.00 / 16) (#80)
    by stillife on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:34:56 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Dear Lord (5.00 / 11) (#86)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:36:25 AM EST
    We have to kill the pony to save the party.

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe we'll have to go to Unity Camp n/t (5.00 / 4) (#252)
    by joanneleon on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:17:53 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Men.. (5.00 / 16) (#73)
    by NotThatStupid on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:33:26 AM EST
    ... like me, are just as outraged.

    Unity?  No thanks.

    [ Parent ]

    And after the upsets, (5.00 / 3) (#285)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:30:55 AM EST
    come the hot flashes. Those are what they ought to be worried about, not a little PMS. Heh.

    [ Parent ]
    Well, many Obama supporters ... (5.00 / 8) (#108)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:39:54 AM EST
    over in the Orangey Place said people would forget about Wright too.

    [ Parent ]
    I really believe that Senator Clinton will (5.00 / 22) (#6)
    by inclusiveheart on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:10:01 AM EST
    do her part.  What I am not so sure of is Obama's ability to take full advantage of her help especially when his most vocal supporters keep throwing road blocks up that continue to alienate Clinton supporters.

    Ironically (5.00 / 5) (#11)
    by blogtopus on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:15:38 AM EST
    Hillary doing her best to unify the party might be enough. It's funny; she's just so damn good at making her case, she might actually convince me eventually that I should vote for Obama.

    For me the most egregious thing is his Health Care Plan; if only he'd steal her plan!

    [ Parent ]

    Well if he does, maybe he can send (5.00 / 15) (#24)
    by nycstray on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:19:05 AM EST
    any leftover Harry &Louise fliers to the Republicans. Save paper and such . . .

    [ Parent ]
    blogtopus (5.00 / 9) (#138)
    by cal1942 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:45:27 AM EST
    It's worse than you think.  Health care is only part of the problem. What Obama means by change is changing the Democratic Party from a party that promotes government activism to a government playing a passive role in our society.

    Obama's tepid policy offerings tell the story.  I believe that candidates always mean what they say.  Bush told us much of what he'd do in 2000 but nobody listened. In 2000 Bush's policy agenda was a window into the intent of the Bush administration. This tells it better than I can:

    http://anglachelg.blogspot.com/2008/05/libertarian-paternalism.html

    This guy would change the emphasis of the Democratic Party we've known since Roosevelt.

    [ Parent ]

    Health care, just read in Houston (5.00 / 1) (#270)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:24:50 AM EST
    Chronicle today of a woman who was turned down for health insurance because she had had a c-section and they were not going to pay for another.They said that if she was over 45 or had been "sterilized" during her previous c-section, they would have given her insurance!!!

    [ Parent ]
    She might try (5.00 / 11) (#142)
    by BarnBabe on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:46:12 AM EST
    but it is too far over the line now I believe. We would realize she has to do what she will do for the sake of the party. The same party that does not want  or need me anymore. My Mamma always told me the roolz too and they are if someone stabs you in the back once, they are going to continue to do it over and over if you let them. They will act contrite and talk all sugar and then whop, another zinger in the back. There would be no health care reform under BHO. BTW, some of those columnist and bloggers who are saying it is up to Hillary, are already in their sub-conscious acknowledging Obama loss in the GE and are setting up the "It was Hillary's fault" defense for November 3rd.

    [ Parent ]
    If he loses in November and tries (5.00 / 3) (#250)
    by inclusiveheart on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:17:23 AM EST
    to blame the Clintons, that will be really pathetic.

    [ Parent ]
    If Clinton Is Not On The Ticket... (5.00 / 7) (#20)
    by talex on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:18:23 AM EST
    I'm not really sure what she can say or do to get some of us on board. Obama is just to flawed in general and never reached out to us or our concerns and didn't reach out to large swaths of America.

    And to be honest I think Hillary standing on the sidelines cheerleading would be doing it in an obligatory and half-hearted way and I could understand why.

    Right now anything short of Clinton being on the ticket would not get me to vote for Obama.

    [ Parent ]

    Nothing will get me to vote for Obama. (5.00 / 11) (#90)
    by alexei on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:36:34 AM EST
    Nein,nada, no!  Now, I will work against any "Dems" who still support Obama.  And definitely all who support the RBC's actions.

    [ Parent ]
    Under no circumstances... (5.00 / 7) (#162)
    by Paul F Villarreal on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:49:52 AM EST
    ...will I vote for Obama. None.

    It's over.

    [ Parent ]

    And... (5.00 / 8) (#174)
    by Paul F Villarreal on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:53:32 AM EST
    ...I will never vote for him, ever, for anything.

    I have learned everything I need to about this man in the past handful of months. This is not a man I trust or whom I want to be running anything which I am the least bit involved with. He has atrocious judgment, zero loyalty or integrity and, quite frankly, the people he surrounds himself with scare the heck out of me.

    [ Parent ]

    Ditto (5.00 / 2) (#289)
    by RalphB on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:36:03 AM EST
    Not for dogcatcher or anything else.

    [ Parent ]
    Indeed (4.93 / 30) (#7)
    by andgarden on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:10:46 AM EST
    because many of them hate Hillary Clinton more than they want to win.

    [ Parent ]
    As with everything that comes (5.00 / 24) (#10)
    by The Realist on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:15:12 AM EST
    out of the Obama campaign, it is never his fault and it is never his responsiblity. Sounds like BushIII to me.

    I noticed this (5.00 / 20) (#12)
    by stillife on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:16:17 AM EST
    in news articles this morning, ABC and NYT to name two.  It's up to Clinton and her supporters to unify the party.  

    I have no doubt that when the time is right, Clinton will throw her support behind Obama, like the loyal Democrat she is.  However, many of us (her supporters) are not ready to make nice.  

    We were already told the party doesn't (5.00 / 11) (#33)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:22:44 AM EST
    need us. Many have registered Independent, most are going to stop watching the race until the convention.

    Clinton's are still campaigning for Hillary until the convention is over. Then they have a right to campaign for their friends who are running for re-election in the House and Senate. You know, people who treat them with respect.


    [ Parent ]

    I know (5.00 / 3) (#166)
    by BarnBabe on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:51:07 AM EST
    Carney voted his Super Delegate vote for Hillary because his district voted for her. Now, he is the only reason to vote Nov 2. I owe him my support and vote for standing by his district's voters. Not like Byrd, Rockefeller, Kerry, or Kennedy. Gawd, with all their wisdom, how can they be so foolish.

    [ Parent ]
    Clinton told them how to unify the party! (5.00 / 8) (#132)
    by Grace on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:44:36 AM EST
    Hillary (and her supporters) said "Pick the most electable person" and they decided not to do that.  

    Geez...  

    [ Parent ]

    It appears to be (5.00 / 3) (#256)
    by vigkat on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:19:29 AM EST
    The talking point for the day, and it's being delivered in an unnecessarily strident manner.  It's interesting to see people who I used to imagine had some degree of connection with reality, mindlessly repeating talking points which have no true basis in fact.  

    [ Parent ]
    Ezra Klein is 23 years old (5.00 / 21) (#14)
    by magisterludi on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:17:06 AM EST
    and I can hardly take him seriously when it comes to party politics.

    Apparently Obama himself must (5.00 / 13) (#25)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:19:24 AM EST
    feel it's up to Hillary because when Anita Dunn, a spokesperson for him yesterday said that it was up to Hillary to bring the party together, she was speaking for Sen. Obama. Personally, I don't want to be led as a lemming. Obama, I have heard, thinks he's now the head of the dem. party....well, to me, w/o Bill Clinton in l992, there is no Barack Obama in 2008!!!

    Obama and his spokes people (5.00 / 15) (#49)
    by talex on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:26:33 AM EST
    saying it is up to Clinton to bring the Party together is a WEAK sign of who Obama is.

    If he can't heal the other half of the Party he ignored on his own how in the hell is he going to heal the nation!!!

    When he has to go crying 'Mama' to the loser to unify the Party then he is showing just what a weak pretender his is.

    [ Parent ]

    yeah, we can have obama condemn (5.00 / 2) (#211)
    by hellothere on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:05:29 AM EST
    our attitude and have michelle tell us we don't appreciate it because we are low information bigoted hicks. then end of the commercial with having brazile lecture us on the rules that now it is our reponsibility to elect obama. that will be a winning commercial i tell you.

    [ Parent ]
    It's the new MCM and Obama Narrative; Clinton must (5.00 / 6) (#50)
    by jawbone on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:26:36 AM EST
    bring everyone to him and then he can win.

    If he does not win, it will be all her fault. NPR did a piece on how long primary battles usually mean that party loses. So it's all the fault of the second place finisher.

    Unless, as history shows, it isn't. But the MCM does history the way it does facts: Only when it confirms their Narrative.

    [ Parent ]

    The media is so lame (5.00 / 1) (#224)
    by cal1942 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:09:10 AM EST
    they construct a scenario that simply suits their personal prejudice.

    Bill Clinton didn't clinch the nomination in 1992 until June and the convention started the second week in July.

    [ Parent ]

    What? (5.00 / 8) (#57)
    by JustJennifer on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:29:09 AM EST
    You are kidding, right?  The Obama campaign is saying Clinton has to unite the party?  That can't be true.  HOW IN THE HELL is it that not the responsibility of the person who now "owns" the party.  Oh man I just can't believe how bad this is getting.  They are setting her up to take the fall when or if he loses in November.

    [ Parent ]
    Hillary didn't break this; Obama and the DNC did. (5.00 / 21) (#26)
    by Angel on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:19:55 AM EST
    So it's not hers to fix.  And I. WILL. NEVER. VOTE. FOR. OBAMA.

    What could Obama say or do (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by digdugboy on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:37:42 AM EST
    to change your mind?

    What could Hillary say or do to change your mind?

    [ Parent ]

    Hillary will do her part to unify (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by bjorn on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:41:18 AM EST
    the party, I have no doubt about that.  Obama needs to show respect to the Clinton Legacy, something he has systematically torn down throughout the campaign.  He needs to take some responsibility for all the crap from his campaign.  Winners do that.  And finally, he needs to tell his supporters (the ones who are so hateful and vile) to stfu! The sane Obama supporters do him proud.  Then I think I can vote for him.

    [ Parent ]
    i highly recommend that you concentrate on (5.00 / 5) (#221)
    by hellothere on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:07:46 AM EST
    what obama can do to fix it. he broke it, now he can fix it. he won't! they already planning on blaming everyone but themselves for any upcoming defeats. tell you what, folks get darn tired fast at listening to blamers and whiners. that doesn't win votes. you might start there.

    [ Parent ]
    If Obama (5.00 / 4) (#239)
    by cal1942 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:12:39 AM EST
    is supposed to be so wonderful then he can figure out what to do.  

    It's a sign of a genuinely weak and clueless candidate who can't figure that one out on his own.

    [ Parent ]

    NOTHING.

    there is nothing that Obama can say to change my mind, especially after yesterday.

    As much as I love Senator Clinton, admire and respect her, there is also nothing she can say or do that can change my mind either.

    I'm done with the democratic party and I will not support Barack Obama.

    [ Parent ]

    How about these for starters (5.00 / 2) (#263)
    by santarita on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:22:32 AM EST
    Obama should acknowledge the use by his campaign of low politics like character assassination and distortion of records and policies, the acceptance of millions of dollars  from individuals in special interest lobbies, and the use of other tools of the old politics. And having confessed to his hypocrisy, he should vow that from that point on he will truly practice his new politics.

     He should disavow the foreign policies of Bush I and Reagan.  He should tell us what values he stands for, what he wants this country to stand for and how he will achieve his vision.  

    [ Parent ]

    Let me be clear in my answer. NOTHING. (4.42 / 7) (#106)
    by Angel on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:39:42 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Absolutely (5.00 / 4) (#232)
    by txpolitico67 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:10:55 AM EST
    If HRC picked up the phone herself and asked me to vote BHO I would respectfully tell her no.

    I'm in Texas, so it really doesn't matter on an electoral level anyway.  If 4 million voted for Bush here in 2004, does BHO or the New democratic party think they could ever get NEAR that number??

    That's what's funny about what's being said from Obama people in Houston and Austin....that Texas could be in play.

    Yeah....right....

    [ Parent ]

    Funniest post of the year (5.00 / 4) (#35)
    by dws3665 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:23:28 AM EST
    and typed with a completely straight face, I'm sure.

    Spoken like a true Obama, Jr. (5.00 / 6) (#56)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:27:53 AM EST
    though. No big deal, they'll all be fine and vote for BO come November. Well, he's not on that ticket yet. Unity isn't really an issue until September. By then there won't be any way to repair the mess Obama has made.

    [ Parent ]
    It's a shared problem, BTD (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by BostonIndependent on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:24:45 AM EST
    Not Obama's, Clinton's or their supporters' problem alone. Unity -- in a team -- is always a shared burden.

    Rumors abound that the Obama campaign will co-opt Hillary -- by offering her a graceful exit with a HHS Cabinet post from which she can direct health-care reform. Whether that will work is anybody's guess, but one thing seems pretty sure to me.

    Some will unite. A lot won't. As the MSM, and the Dem. blogosphere increasingly turns Pro-Obama, I suspect people that chill, tune out politics and with a quiet conviction go to the polls in November will determine the outcome.


    It is funny that Obama supporters (5.00 / 18) (#65)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:30:34 AM EST
    think an offer of HHS offers clinton a graceful exit.

    It really shows how out of it some of you are.

    [ Parent ]

    I am not an Obama supporter (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by BostonIndependent on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:39:15 AM EST
    I actually do NOT agree w/ the HHS offer at all! In fact, were it to be made, I think Senator Clinton should turn it down because she can do far more good , across the board in her present position at the Senate. Going to HHS will cast her as a single-issue politician -- which I do not think she is (or what she has come to believe in after this campaign).

    But the fact that the media is pushing this narrative says to me that Obama does not want Clinton on the ticket.. which I think is a big mistake. I cannot, right now, think of any other way to unify the party (as I think you and others have pointed out).

    [ Parent ]

    There's really only (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by frankly0 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:36:54 AM EST
    one gesture that might actually help quell the anger of many Hillary supporters: offering her the VP slot.

    Anything short of that will be understood as a clear indication that Obama really is using them, not listening to them.

    [ Parent ]

    Agreed.. (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by BostonIndependent on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:42:29 AM EST
    Personally speaking, I'm not sure where I stand on an Obama/Clinton ticket. Right now, I'm still thinking Clinton/Obama rather than the other way around.

    [ Parent ]
    Just to add to my point (5.00 / 8) (#191)
    by frankly0 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:59:25 AM EST
    Why is the VP slot the only thing that Clinton supporters will accept?

    To begin with, it is of course the highest position Obama might offer her.

    But that is not really the most basic point.

    We want him to offer her the VP slot precisely because we know he would find it very hard personally to do so. We know that it would require him to swallow his pride.

    From our point of view, we simply won't believe that the man has taken the necessary step to embrace and accept Hillary supporters unless he does something that requires him to do something that is personally difficult. Nothing short of that shows any sincerity whatever in his embrace of the Hillary side.

    At bottom, the importance of offering Hillary the VP slot comes from our understanding of human nature. We want to see that there's sincerity in his attempts to reach out to us. Only swallowing his own pride will demonstrate that sincerity. Eating a little humble pie will do a lot to assuage our feelings of anger toward him, as well as our sense that he is far too arrogant to be our political leader.

    [ Parent ]

    well said (5.00 / 3) (#199)
    by bjorn on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:02:12 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    One final qualification (5.00 / 4) (#254)
    by frankly0 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:19:00 AM EST
    While I think that Obama's offering Hillary the VP position is certainly a necessary condition for most Hillary supporters to embrace him, I don't think it is by itself even sufficient. At minimum, more will be required of him.

    But if he can't bring himself to make her that offer, don't blame Hillary supporters if they don't come to his side.

    You can blame the man himself.

    [ Parent ]

    Offering her (5.00 / 2) (#275)
    by cal1942 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:26:08 AM EST
    the VP spot is the same as getting rid of her.

    That may work for some Clinton supporters but it certainly won't work for all Clinton supporters.

    [ Parent ]

    VP??? Heh. To cover for the unqualified male? (5.00 / 6) (#225)
    by Ellie on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:09:22 AM EST
    Bwaahahahaha.

    An esteemed honor above and beyond regular women's experience.

    [ Parent ]

    sorry but unity begins with the one (5.00 / 5) (#234)
    by hellothere on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:11:31 AM EST
    side reaching out to the other in good faith. i sure haven't seen that happen and don't expect it. so let's shuffle hillary off to a cabinet position. she does't want that. she knows better. you know if obama had really wanted to bring people together yesterday would have been a darn good time to start. but what did we get? obama supporters already blaming us. forget it speaking only for me.

    [ Parent ]
    That is dumb as dirt (5.00 / 4) (#47)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:26:07 AM EST
    I don't often write such things but when the shoe fits!  I posted in your last thread about watching a recent John McCain speech outlining his desires to scale back the nuclear arms of the United States.  McBush and McSame or very cute things to call him at Orange, but they aren't accurate in depicting his voting record and how he is going to run in the G.E.  They aren't accurate in depicting McCain's attraction to indy voters and his attraction to disgruntled Dem voters via that and his immigration stance.  That is just the beginning of how McCain can and will appeal to indy and disgruntled Dems!  

    Eh... (none / 0) (#84)
    by Jay Elias on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:36:13 AM EST
    ...I think you are correct, Tracy, in saying that despite the humor in it, McCain is not "McSame", but I'm not sure he will have that kind of significant appeal this election.  He'll probably lose on Iraq alone, and his breaks with his party on immigration and judges will do him little good.

    Further, the reason people call him that is not in spite of but because of his voting record.  McCain talks a far better game than he votes.

    [ Parent ]

    I could be wrong (5.00 / 4) (#128)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:43:58 AM EST
    but McCain is going to begin to evolve and pivot on Iraq.  I think he's going to declare victory and take leave.  He is going to begin to point to little victories dialy when we are in the general election and begin talking about how we can start scaling down due to this small victory or that small victory.  When "bad things" happen he will bring up that the Iraqis are learning to govern themselves.  He will not leave though declaring trounced as a Democrat will.  He isn't bound by the same grading scale as Bush is on this so he will invent his own.  He also isn't pigheaded like Bush and is capable of evolving his positions on things and explaining his evolutions well.  

    [ Parent ]
    I think that McCain will also be helped by... (5.00 / 6) (#182)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:55:22 AM EST
    ...a media backlash. I disagree with those who think that Obama will lose his media darling status. MSM are too invested in him at this point. But oddly, Mccain may be the beneficiary of the backlash because there is advantage in the good coverage that being a darling garners you, but MSM will be called the "liberal" media by Republicans and this time around it will ring true to many viewers.

    [ Parent ]
    Who let the voters out? (5.00 / 9) (#60)
    by DoggieDaddy on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:29:52 AM EST
    A year ago I made the claim that my dirty'ol hound dog could win the white house over any GOPig that was running. But with the 'so called' news media playing favorites and the party 'elders' all sucking up and riding rough shot over BO's campaign AND playing the race card at every turn, the dreams of 'ol dirty finding a warm place in the Lincoln bedroom are getting very slim.

    This was not only a great peak at the backroom dealings of the political machine, it was foretelling of what's to come form the great savior of our party - Nothing.

    If BO gets the nod and IF he wins imo nothing will get done. With claims of uniting those on both sides of the aisle falling on deft ears.
    Reform - fugetit. He's proved himself to be a tool of his campaign managers.
    Unity - Great way to start, take votes away from you opponent and get yourself votes even though you weren't on the ballot.

    I Take Exception (5.00 / 11) (#62)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:30:05 AM EST
    at "White women, around 40-65, who are mostly middle class, and closet racists".

    It is not only sexist. It is racist and ageist too.

    I know many men of all ages, and met many AA, Hispanic and Asian women yesterday outside the DNC meeting yesterday who were extremely incensed by the outcome of it. They weren't all Clinton supporters even.

    I am a male in my 20s and I am equally angry about what has transpired during this nominating process.

    The fact that the TV networks show videos of older women with extremely passionate views and support for Clinton is what fits with the narrative -- however misguided it is -- that her sole support comes from middle-aged and elderly white women.

    It's total bollocks. She has huge numbers of students, AAs, Latinos, Asians of both sexes of all ages who support her and will continue to support her for as long as she's in it. Many of them will NOT support Obama just because he's been shoved down their throats as the party's nominee.

    More often than not, they may not vote at all, but for others, it more about the person and not the party. The next best choice is McCain and if no one in the media and the Obama campaign sees that, they are in for a 2000/2004 Redux this November.

    It is Clinton Rules (5.00 / 6) (#64)
    by Andy08 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:30:27 AM EST
    They know they have in Obama a losing candidate in their hands in the GE. So why not blaming HRC and her supporters; huh? Sure why not.

    History will not be kind to the primary and that will not be Clinton nor her supporters fault.

    Obama must think we all have short memories. (5.00 / 8) (#66)
    by Angel on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:30:55 AM EST
    We will never forget the "Hillary, you're nice enough." comment; the brushing her off his shoulder; the wiping her off his shoe; his sexist remarks; his finger on his face (I know what I saw); and the fact that he has never come to her defense when things were said about her - specifically what his preachers said and did at the pulpit of his church.  He does  not have the character to be president.

    No Legitimacy, No Unity eom (5.00 / 4) (#69)
    by livesinashoe on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:32:27 AM EST


    I have found that Meteor Blades (5.00 / 9) (#70)
    by Paul F Villarreal on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:32:29 AM EST
    ...has a very locked-in position as regards certain matters, sadly.

    It sounds like his desire to see Obama elected has gotten the best of him once again.

    You don't start Civil Wars and then suddenly look to call ceasefires arbitrarily. To the overwhelming majority of Clinton supporters (and to the GOP), the Obama camp and it's supporters in the media and beyond have done everything in their power to burn bridges at every opportunity. The RFK debacle was just another example. And so, the aftereffects of this strategy will have to be lived with by the Obamans.

    Things are likely to dramatically shift now. There are no more committees to be rigged our states to be disenfranchised. And thus, the reality that Clinton supporters constitute the majority of the party and that we hold the fate of Obama in our hands (well, somewhat; even if all of us voted for him he might still lose in November) is now coming to the fore of the minds of those who were calling us all sorts of names only days ago.

    I do not envy the Obamans' position, and I have no great words of encouragement for your predicament. All I can say is in the future, please remember this phrase:

    If you live by the sword you will die by the sword

    And hopefully, as we negotiate our way through our 3rd straight GOP presidential term, we can avoid what Obama's tactics have done to our party heading into 2012.

    Agreed, BTD ... (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:32:44 AM EST
    I just made the same point in the Epitaph diary.

    Unifying the party will be up to Obama (if he's the nominee).

    And it's just nonsense to claim "there's nothing he can do" to unify the party.

    If Obama is the nominee, I still plan on voting for him.  But he, and his campaign, make this harder every day.

    They don't even seem to want my vote.

    Meteor Blades wrong also. (5.00 / 7) (#72)
    by masslib on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:33:25 AM EST
    I'm trying to explain this, I don't think Obama has the resume for the job.  I seriously worry about the country in the hands of someone I don't think is qualified.  Michelle Obama once said running the federal government is not brain surgery.  I contend she is right.  It's much more complicated than brain surgery.

    Let me put it this way... (5.00 / 9) (#79)
    by masslib on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:34:27 AM EST
    I could have unified behind Gore, or Dodd, or even Biden.  I really value experience.

    [ Parent ]
    Exactly... (5.00 / 11) (#125)
    by madamab on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:43:28 AM EST
    I was having this discussion with my hubby last night.

    Any of the other candidates that started out in this process were far more qualified than Obama. Obama was always my least favorite (except Gravel), simply because of his thin resume. If any of them had beaten HRC (who was not my first choice), I would have been fine with it.

    Now I see that unqualified Obama, by using the most divisive and hateful campaign ever waged by a Democrat against another Democrat, and by stealing delegates and claiming votes that he didn't get, has all but won the nomination.

    Nothing HRC does or doesn't do is going to convince me this is democratic OR Democratic.

    The top of my ballot will remain blank if Obama or McCain are my choices.

    [ Parent ]

    More Magical Thinking (5.00 / 18) (#75)
    by MO Blue on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:34:05 AM EST
    When Clinton concedes and says unite behind Obama, a breeze will blow across American carrying a magic potion that will erase all memory of past offenses and of Obama's associates and positions.

    People will automatically forget that they have been called racists, uneducated, low class, low information voters who are not necessary to the NEW Democratic Party. They will forget that Obama has put SS on the table, ran "poison pill"  ads against UHC, wants to have a foreign policy like Reagan, has stated that he might put Republicans in the positions of Sec. of Defense and State, has a Republican on his short list for VP, believes that Republicans have better ideas regarding government regulations and education, voted in favor of Cheney's Energy policy, introduced a liquified coal bill which Gore said was horrible, supports nuclear energy without being aware of  the dangers such as Hanford and has supported disenfranchising two swing states.

    People will automatically forget that the NEW Democratic remained silent or contributed to the sexist attacks and the demonization of Hillary until it no longer mattered and then make a few token comments. People will automatically forget that the NEW Democratic remained silent or contributed painting the Clintons and large segments of the party as racists and claiming that the Clinton presidency was as bad for America as Bush's current administration.

    People will ignore the fact the Obama campaign, his surrogates and his supporters continue the attacks on Hillary and continue their insults of voters who do not support Obama.

    Magical Thinking at its very finest.

    To me, (5.00 / 17) (#154)
    by frankly0 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:48:09 AM EST
    one of the most disgusting things that the Obama camp did was to encourage the belief that Hillary's RFK remarks were alluding to the possibility of Obama's own assassination, as if Hillary were capable of deliberately conjuring up -- and presumably hoping for -- that possibility.

    It was just vile almost beyond comprehension.

    And they engaged in this smear attack at a time when all the odds favored Obama immensely for winning the nomination. It could hardly have been more unnecessary. It was just an ugly, primitive knifing of a political opponent simply to do her damage out of the darkest vindictiveness.

    Honestly, I can never forget that or forgive that.

    [ Parent ]

    I remember well how BTD (5.00 / 10) (#202)
    by madamab on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:02:33 AM EST
    weeks ago, tried to say that Obama would now stop knifing Hillary in the back and would concentrate solely on McCain.

    I told him that would not happen, and of course, it didn't, because McCain was kicking Obama's a$$ every time Obama tried to take him on. Obama then resorted to IACF! to smear Hillary with the RFK pseudo-scandal.

    Unity will not happen either because Obama confuses submission with agreement.

    He's nothing but a bully. And so are many of his supporters.

    [ Parent ]

    What do they mean? (5.00 / 5) (#97)
    by Sunshine on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:37:45 AM EST
    [There is an] authentic, deep anger among Clinton supporters. And that's not a problem the Rules Committee can resolve. This one is up to Clinton herself.
    The Rules Committee caused it, they can solve it...
    This is an attack on women in general, this must be what abused wives feel...
    The attacks have come from all sides, the Rules Commettee, the media, men in general, not one of the original candidates supported Hillary, even though some said she was the best candidate, Obama supporters and freinds have made vicious attacks on Hillary and women, some TV personalities have been just as vicious as Obama's religious supporters and some magazine people have used their publications for this hate for women in general... You would think she was running on the Nazi party the way Keith Olbermann reacted to her....
    Now Hillary is supposed to bring us all together, she will probably do her best but I don't think all women will be so generous...
    I think the Rules Committee has it's nerve to even ask her to put it all back together or to ask women in general to forgive and forget..


    So what should he do, BTD? (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by flyerhawk on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:39:21 AM EST
    What are the steps he needs to take at this point?

    Vague demands of Obama bringing the party together are all well and good.  But what can he specifically do to further that goal at this point?

    Until Hillary concedes, any sort of appeal to Hillary supporters will be received by them as arrogance since he isn't the nominee yet.

    I can't think of a thing he can until Hillary concedes.  If you have some ideas I would certainly like to hear them.

    I think it essential (5.00 / 16) (#123)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:42:59 AM EST
    That he insist to his supporters and his surrogates that he treat her with th respect she deserves. Continuously. Believe it or not, he needs to court them.

    My own view is that IF he wants to unify the Party, he will need to offer her the Vice Presidency.

    If he feels he does not need or want that to win, then he can choose not to. But that is taking an unnecessary risk imo.

    But we will see what Obama does. right now, his supporters are his worst enemies with regard to unifying the Party. Starting with Donna Brazile especially.

    [ Parent ]

    Impossible (5.00 / 12) (#152)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:47:49 AM EST
    it's not in their makeup, they think it's old politics.  Look at Wexler compared to Nelson.  We are entering the age of accepted political brutality  under the guise of being fighters.  I was sincerely stunned with him yelling at that woman on the committee.  Then look at Brazille talking down to the Blanchard?  

    Impossible BTD, it is not in the capacity of the movement.  They did not want to get rid of Bush they wanted to use his tactics.  

    [ Parent ]

    For example (5.00 / 4) (#184)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:55:38 AM EST
    Hillary Clinton will be offered a dignified exit from the presidential race and the prospect of a place in Barack Obama's cabinet under plans for a "negotiated surrender" of her White House ambitions being drawn up by Senator Obama's aides.

    Their tone

    [ Parent ]

    That is the big question (5.00 / 0) (#164)
    by flyerhawk on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:50:40 AM EST
    I have no idea if the Obama campaign believes that Hillary should be on the ticket or not.  We will find out.

    Brazile is a loose cannon.  Technically she is not an Obama supporter although it seems fairly obvious that she backs him.  But she is a DNC official and I am not sure that a candidate should be attacking DNC officials regardless of their views.

    Respect is a vague term because it is dependent on the receipient to feel that something is or is not respectful.

    [ Parent ]

    While I Agree (5.00 / 7) (#165)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:51:06 AM EST
    with the crux of your argument, BTD, about offering VP to Clinton, I think most Clinton supporters (many I know, at least, including me) would see right through that and see that it is his last, and only hope of winning the Presidency -- because right now, more Democrats have voted for her than him. We know that he HAS TO offer it to her, but she SHOULD decline it.


    [ Parent ]
    Completely agreed.. but he needs to do MORE (5.00 / 9) (#175)
    by BostonIndependent on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:53:43 AM EST
    In my opinion
    • Obama should explicitly start talking to Clinton supporters, not using code-words, not using brush-offs and twisting the knife gestures, but to say "I need you" over the public airwaves, and
    • Obama needs to acknowledge his campaign's race-baiting, and divisive tactics and APOLOGIZE for them. He needs to tell his supporters and the MSM that "this race is over so cut it out!"
    • And Obama should start showing real respect for HRC and Bill Clinton. Not just words, Senator. Actions that show us in the Democratic party that you mean it.

    IMHO, not ONCE has he taken a real stance on any of the  above. Instead his campaign and supporters have gone out of their way to indicate how they can win with new voters, emerging coalitions etc. If he continues  to do that -- the democratic base that voted for Hillary is just going to solidify in their will to "show him in November".

    [ Parent ]
    I, for one, have (5.00 / 0) (#272)
    by digdugboy on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:25:06 AM EST
    always treated HRC with respect on the blogs. I got troll-rated almost to oblivion at DKos for defending her during the stupid RFK event. When her supporters act like children in the middle of a perpetual tantrum, it's kind of hard to respect that for long.

    [ Parent ]
    For months (5.00 / 2) (#288)
    by Foxx on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:33:04 AM EST
    you have been saying that Obama must act with leadership and dignity and for months he has not been doing it.

    [ Parent ]
    there is no requirement (5.00 / 6) (#145)
    by Josey on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:46:50 AM EST
    that "unity" can only begin after concession.
    Where did you learn that??
    Oh wait - like other issues, Obama is simply running out the clock, unable to reflect nobility and statesmanship, while partisanship is reinforced.
    Obamamites are no smarter than Obama on "unity."

    [ Parent ]
    As I said (none / 0) (#179)
    by flyerhawk on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:54:57 AM EST
    Offer ideas of what he can do to bring Hillary supporters over to him right now, before she concedes.  

    Criticizing "Obamamites" serves no purpose.

    [ Parent ]

    First (5.00 / 2) (#259)
    by americanincanada on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:20:17 AM EST
    He could try actually securing the nomination before he crowns himself kinf og the world.

    Then he could try not insulting her every time one of his surrogates opens their mouths.

    He could have seated both delegations yesterday fully and truly come out of the meeting united.

    That last one prevented anything from working for me.

    [ Parent ]

    What should he do? (5.00 / 1) (#240)
    by NotThatStupid on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:13:21 AM EST
    ... if he would put in eight years of hard work (heh...made myself laugh at that one) in the Senate, avoiding places such as TUCC and the people therein like the plague, start treating everyone in the Democratic Party - women, elderly, low income, low education, - as valued members, then, maybe, I could vote for him ...

    ...in 2016.

    [ Parent ]

    please, anyone good policitan (5.00 / 3) (#249)
    by hellothere on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:17:10 AM EST
    knows there are hundreds of positive things he can do and probably won't. don't insult us.

    [ Parent ]
    Meteor Blades focuses on Hillary (5.00 / 4) (#107)
    by Josey on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:39:46 AM EST
    to distract from Obama throwing his church under the bus.
    In 2004, the GOP railed about a divorced Dem nominee partaking of communion.
    Obama is a gift to the GOP! and makes it easy for them since he's emulated the philosophy of Wright and Phleger throughout the primary.

    MB is just being shrill. (5.00 / 8) (#183)
    by Fabian on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:55:29 AM EST
    What MB should be doing, with his long history of activism, is leading the charge to FIGHT for the survival of the party.  And you don't do that by smearing people think they have been shut out, shouted down, disrespected and now - cast out.

    Are there no leaders left in the Left?  At least the GOP saw the fatal flaw of their party staring them in the face this primary season and decided to go with the one candidate who stood a chance of keeping the deeply divided coalition together.  The Democrats see a huge divide staring them right in the face and not one can say "Hey, no matter who wins - I'll support them!".  Love to hear Brazile say that or Richardson or someone other than Hillary Clinton.  We should have a press conference with SDs linked arm in arm, declaring that no matter who the nominee is, they WILL support them fully, completely and unreservedly.

    [ Parent ]

    Both need to provide for unity. (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Faust on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:41:47 AM EST
    Neither one of them can provide unity alone. BOTH need to lead the democratic party to unity. That's what UNITY means. Obviously Obama needs to take the lead since he will almost certainly be nominated as the leader.

    Both. Not just Obama. Not just Clinton. Both. Unity.

    That's why a unity ticket is a good idea. Because it creates a structural unity that permits them both to lead together.

    agreed (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by bjorn on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:44:34 AM EST


    [ Parent ]