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New Elections Thread, CBS Calls Indiana for Hillary

Our servers crashed for a half hour or so. We're back now.

Update: 830,000 votes are in and Fox and CNN are still not calling it. Hillary now has 53% of the vote. Gary (Lake County) is not in. I don't agree that Gary, Indiana makes the difference between a win and a loss. We'll see.

Let's continue. In Indiana, more than 650,000 votes are in and Hillary is holding her 54%, 8 point lead.

CBS has called Indiana for Hillary Clinton. The media and Obama's campaign are focused on North Carolina, the outcome of which was never in doubt. They are trying to make it sound like Hillary's votes are Rush Limbaugh generated.

Hillary got 59% of the white vote in North Carolina according to the exit polls. David Axlerod claims Obama got 65% of the white voters under age 65. Can both of those be correct? [Comments now closed.]

< NC Exits, Thread 2 | Obama Congratulates Hillary for Her Win in Indiana >
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    Phew! (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:49:29 PM EST
    Major withdrawal there for a while...

    Hey, everybody, chip in some dough to the site so you won't feel personally guilty if this happens.

    Obama strongholds not yet counted in Indiana... (none / 0) (#124)
    by Denni on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:11:16 PM EST
    how can CBS call the vote?

    Parent
    same way they called NC right after polls closed (none / 0) (#141)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:13:55 PM EST
    I guess

    Parent
    Obama's lead in NC seems almost (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:49:48 PM EST
    cartoonish. I'd look for that to narrow, but I wonder by how much.

    Meanwhile, Hillary's lead in IN has narrowed a bit. She'll win, but I'm concerned about the margin, especially given that none of the far NW counties have come in yet.

    It looks (none / 0) (#41)
    by Makarov on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:57:31 PM EST
    like VA and SC all over again, but some of his big counties are nearly all in, and there's a lot that haven't reported any results.  Still, doesn't look good for Clinton being able to close that lead back to the poll predictions (10-12).

    Parent
    Ha (none / 0) (#66)
    by andrewwm on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:02:21 PM EST
    Waiting for SA to come back online?

    Parent
    Yep (none / 0) (#108)
    by Makarov on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:08:57 PM EST
    I think I got the last post in on the Primary thread before the forums went down, my predictions from the early (incomplete) exits fox reported.

    Something interesting in the last 15 minutes:

    Obama's % lead has gone from 28, to 24, to 22.  Raleigh is almost all in, but Greensboro and Charlotte haven't reported much.

    She'll have to run up the vote in a huge way where she takes counties in order to get Obama's lead down to 10%.  Looking like him by 15+.

    Parent

    Sounds about right (none / 0) (#171)
    by andrewwm on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:19:06 PM EST
    Probably about 15% for him in NC, maybe 1-2% for her in ID.

    Looks like Zogby was a lot closer than SUSA...interesting.

    Parent

    Hillary (none / 0) (#217)
    by Makarov on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:34:10 PM EST
    is down to a 40K / 4% lead in IN.  MSNBC changed from "too early" down to "too close" call - hinting they think it's possible for him to catch her.  Lake County (Gary, IN) would have to go overwhelmingly Obama for that to happen.  It was expected to, but I don't think neighboring LaPorte will.

    Obama's NC lead keeps going down - now 16%.  He's won a ton of counties though, so no guarantee the ones that haven't reported will go Clinton.

    Parent

    extrapolating from the exits... (none / 0) (#97)
    by p lukasiak on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:07:19 PM EST
    it looks like NC will be 55.3% to 40.3%

    Parent
    Isn't that was about expected...15 pts (none / 0) (#104)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:08:37 PM EST
    What's the other 10%? (none / 0) (#145)
    by jawbone on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:14:16 PM EST
    Well, like SC, a huge spread --Wow. (none / 0) (#152)
    by jawbone on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:15:43 PM EST
    Raq vote, 59 to 39.

    Ouch.

    A big state that won't go D -- Obama saying it's now a swing state and will go for him in general if he's the nom.

    Parent

    CNN has been bashing (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:50:25 PM EST
    Clinton, particulary Roland Martin, John King, and Jeffrey Toobin.  Donna Brazile had a hissy fit, she wants to kill Clinton.  This is depressing.  If the SDs are watching, which how could they not be, the message is get in line or forget about your future.  All of this with only 17% of the vote in NC!

    DEPRESSING!

    Brazile blasts Begala and entirely denies (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by Cream City on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:52:08 PM EST
    saying what he and several commenters heard her say.
    Re the new Dem party not needing working class whites, etc.

    I want a transcript.  I think she said that.

    Parent

    I agree, I heard what (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:53:39 PM EST
    Paul heard and thought I was losing my mind when she said she didn't say it!

    Parent
    We heard her. (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by ChiTownDenny on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:53:42 PM EST
    It's on the previous thread.

    Parent
    Donna flat out lied (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:53:42 PM EST
    What a fight. Did you see all that? She was (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Teresa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:54:43 PM EST
    shaking she was so mad.

    Parent
    Darn! (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by ChiTownDenny on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:56:41 PM EST
    I flipped the channel after she said that, I was so mad.

    Parent
    I hope it's on youtube. She flat lost it. (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Teresa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:58:22 PM EST
    Brazille's been heading toward a breakdown for (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by Lil on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:57:58 PM EST
    some time. She's less and less credible everytime I hear her, IMO.

    Parent
    She's a nut case. (none / 0) (#157)
    by Salo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:16:15 PM EST
    Donna Brazille! Where teh nutz come from.

    Anyone know Charlie's Aunt?

    Parent

    I emailed the dnc (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by dissenter on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:13:30 PM EST
    I told them since they no longer needed my blue collar working mother that she wouldn't be voting and I was going to vote for McCain.

    Wow. That was stunning. I have never heard such a politically stupid comment in my life

    Parent

    Brazille Axelrod (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by Salo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:17:33 PM EST
    We are the vangard we have been waiting for.

    The dictatorship of the proles.

    Parent

    I told the DNC (none / 0) (#187)
    by misspeach2008 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:22:45 PM EST
    "When the history of this election is written, May 6, 2008, will be the birthday of a new group of voters that will be called the McCain Democrats, and it's mother will be Donna Brasile."

    Parent
    what did she say? n/t (none / 0) (#70)
    by ghost2 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:03:06 PM EST
    She said (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by ChiTownDenny on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:05:06 PM EST
    the Dem party is changing and maybe it doesn't need "blue collar" votes to win the GE.

    Parent
    or Hispanics (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:05:56 PM EST
    WTF? (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:24:00 PM EST
    Fine by me. Being Hispanic I sure can take my vote and the votes of at least 25 family members elsewhere.

    Thanks Barack for NOT making this about race or economic status.  Wonder how many AA's that voted for him have ever even HEARD of arugula?

    McCain will have him for breakfast.  

    Parent

    I knew they threw (none / 0) (#120)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:10:13 PM EST
    the working class under the bus, but did she actually say hispanics? or is that just a foregone conclusion?

    Parent
    she said it (5.00 / 3) (#133)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:12:20 PM EST
    did she say hispanics? (5.00 / 2) (#192)
    by ghost2 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:23:47 PM EST
    In addition to the white working class? Oh, this is stupid.  Not only stupid, it's also WRONG.

    Donna Brazille is an idiot and an incredibly bitter woman.  Now, she is also officially an a--h--e.  

    The politics of demographics has always been wrong. WRONG.  Now, Donna is suggesting partitioning the country along the black and white lines? Because, really that's what she is suggesting.

    You know, people who vote for Hillary are working class. They voted for Bill. Hillary and Bill CARE and CATER to the concerns of the working people.  Hillary at least acknowledges how hard it is to make ends meet.  

    Note that I said nothing about race in the previous paragraph.  Now, the black working class would like to see one of their own win.  OK, we understand that. Even with 90-10 percent going for Obama, we understand that. But to suggest that the party really should ignore the rest of the working class is the height of stupidity.  Oh, what a moron.


    Parent

    Have they thrown the women's vote (5.00 / 1) (#225)
    by nycstray on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:39:43 PM EST
    under the bus yet? Or are we still invisible?

    Parent
    So, time for that third party? (none / 0) (#228)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:41:02 PM EST
    isn't Donna still claiming she's an undecided super, as well?

    Parent
    Depressing (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by chancellor on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:53:37 PM EST
    What's really depressing is that, in the GE, Dems won't have a prayer in NC. So, personally, I look at the NC results as a feel-good exercise for Obama. The two states we must have, IMO, are PA and OH, and I don't see us taking those without Hillary.

    Parent
    Try explaning THAT (5.00 / 3) (#88)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:06:07 PM EST
    to the geniuses over at the DNC.  Their political correctness will sink them for the next two election cycles.

    Parent
    Heard a rumor (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by cmugirl on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:50:29 PM EST
    HRC has to lend her campaign more money.  Don't know if it's true or not, but let's pony up some dough!

    Server overload (5.00 / 7) (#5)
    by chancellor on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:50:31 PM EST
    Seems to be happening on a number of the sites supportive of Hillary. No, I don't think it's a conspiracy. I think it's indicative of so many Hillary supporters having so few places on the internet to gather and talk. Just had a problem over at Riverdaughter's site, as well.

    Corrente is up... (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by lambert on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:05:26 PM EST
    ... says Corrente. And thank you TL for all that you do!

    Parent
    I've been having trouble getting Corrente to load, (none / 0) (#112)
    by jawbone on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:09:10 PM EST
    so maybe some traffic problems there as well?

    But, yes, so many Hillary supporters -- so few sites.

    Parent

    Donna Brazille got called. (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:51:18 PM EST


    CBS News (5.00 / 0) (#9)
    by LeftyFan on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:51:37 PM EST
    CBS News calls Indiana for Hillary.

    Donna Brazile cant help herself (5.00 / 5) (#10)
    by ajain on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:51:52 PM EST
    She just gave a full throated defense of Obama. Campbell actually asked her about her leanings and affliations.

    What did it take for that to happen? heh (none / 0) (#22)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:53:59 PM EST
    That was scary...TL being down (5.00 / 6) (#13)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:52:27 PM EST


    IAWTC (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by eleanora on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:58:20 PM EST
    We'd be homeless on the Internets without TL.

    Parent
    No Kidding....I was totally bummed... (none / 0) (#50)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:58:31 PM EST
    Just like Wonderful Life, (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:59:56 PM EST
    what would the world be without TL

    Parent
    I had no idea it happened.. (none / 0) (#135)
    by FlaDemFem on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:12:45 PM EST
    I was out feeding the critters, and starting my own dinner. When I came back and maximized the browser, y'all were still here. Heh.

    Parent
    President McCain, President McCain (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by smott on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:52:34 PM EST
    ....just trying to get used to it.
    Ugh.

    It's not going to be easy (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by americanincanada on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:54:49 PM EST
    I'm glad I have the option of staying in Canada instead of moving home at the end of this contract.

    Parent
    I nearly moved... (none / 0) (#30)
    by smott on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:55:23 PM EST
    to Canada after 2004. I think I will now.

    Parent
    If CA will take a whole flood of Dems in...n/t (none / 0) (#63)
    by Eleanor A on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:01:53 PM EST
    It will be great (none / 0) (#180)
    by hopeyfix on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:21:21 PM EST
    ... To still be here once Obama grants us no universal coverage.

    I hate to say, but I lost my hopes tonight.

    Parent

    move to Canada (none / 0) (#215)
    by jackyt on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:32:35 PM EST
    I moved here as Nixon was saying, "This President Is Not A Crook!" and I was saying, "Yeah, right..."

    Subsequently, my daughter grew up and moved to NYC, where she met and married a born 'n bred newyawka. Early 2005, they moved to Toronto. We all voted for Hillary in the Dems abroad primary. But are we sure happy we won't be living under either President McCain or President Obama.

    BTW Single payer, universal healthcare is the best!

    Parent

    what's the job market like up there? (none / 0) (#91)
    by DJ on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:06:25 PM EST
    and housing because I may be moving (none / 0) (#93)
    by DJ on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:06:48 PM EST
    Oh. Could you get the rest of us a job in (none / 0) (#113)
    by derridog on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:09:16 PM EST
    Canada?

    Parent
    LOL (none / 0) (#172)
    by americanincanada on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:19:10 PM EST
    Job market it good in some places. the country is going green at a very fast rate. Gay marriage is legal across the country. Universal healthcare. Housing is plentiful and it's a buyer's market right now.

    I actually live in the Hawaii of Canada, Victoria on Vancouver Island. Warmest place in the country...rarely snows...lots of ocean...

    Parent

    I read this post (none / 0) (#219)
    by kayla on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:35:14 PM EST
    without reading the above comments you were responding to, and thought you were making a prediction for what the country would be like when Hillary is president.

    /wishful thinking

    I don't think she's getting the nomination.

    Parent

    Let's see those NC numbers (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by Davidson on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:54:52 PM EST
    I want to actually see the margins and not just base it on exit polls.

    Besides, he was always supposed to blow her out of the water in NC.  Now him winning it is huge?!

    Parent

    Fallacy (1.00 / 3) (#134)
    by aequitas on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:12:26 PM EST
    <<President McCain, President McCain>>

    Only if Clinton supporters are traitors.

    Parent

    Obama supporters (5.00 / 7) (#146)
    by echinopsia on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:14:43 PM EST
    Have already called us racist, senile, uneducated, low class, low information and bitter.

    Calling us traitors doesn't sting much.

    And it's supposed to get us on his side exactly how?

    Parent

    We'd only be traitors if we (5.00 / 1) (#220)
    by nycstray on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:35:23 PM EST
    defected from Clinton, right? Can't be a traitor to Obama or the "New" Dem Party cause they already counted us out . . .

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by janarchy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:15:41 PM EST
    we've already been told we're not part of the Democratic party and traitors for not just handing Obama the nomination. So why should we capitulate and vote for a candidate when our votes are not wanted?

    Parent
    LOL (none / 0) (#207)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:29:13 PM EST
    You guys are going to be funny tonight.

    Parent
    Obama is winning independents (none / 0) (#107)
    by lilybart on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:08:53 PM EST
    so I am not sure what you are worried about.

    also, there are so many new DEM voters, that the disgruntled ones can just stay home

    Parent

    Nope (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by echinopsia on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:12:45 PM EST
    CNN exit polls on Indiana (none / 0) (#176)
    by lilybart on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:20:39 PM EST
    Obama won Independents 53-47


    Parent
    Indie is a bit (none / 0) (#188)
    by Salo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:23:01 PM EST
    more complex than that.

    former Nader voters can be categorized as indies.

    Parent

    Good luck with that (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by sumac on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:15:50 PM EST
    You and Donna can celebrate together after McCain takes the majority of Independents, Hispanics, Reagan Dems, blue collar whites... oh, and Republicans.

    Parent
    There are two types of indies (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by Salo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:22:00 PM EST
    Well three really.

    Rightwing indies.

    Centrist indies.

    left wing indies.

    Nader voters are indies.  Do you see the problem now?

    Parent

    cbs calls ind (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:52:40 PM EST
    for Hillary

    CAmpbell Brown (5.00 / 5) (#21)
    by americanincanada on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:53:48 PM EST
    called out Donna B. on being an Obama supporter. that was a thing of beauty. Donna lost it.

    Cannot believe (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:55:40 PM EST
    she held such high positions.  

    Parent
    I can't believe (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Eleanor A on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:59:28 PM EST
    anyone still takes her seriously, after all the strategic errors she made when she was Gore's campaign manager.

    You still hear horror stories here in TN about how badly she treated volns etc...

    Parent

    Oh, Please... (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by AmyinSC on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:57:00 PM EST
    More details, if you will!!!  I would LOVE to hear abt that (and believe you me, I don't care much for Campbell Brown, so this surprises me a bit!).

    So, dish, please!

    Parent

    I was amused (none / 0) (#170)
    by sumac on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:19:02 PM EST
    when she said she'd better cook something up for Begala because there was something wrong with his hearing... what?! WHat is it with Donna and her cooking?

    She really seemed to lose it for a moment, shaking, unable to form coherent sentences.

    Parent

    I'd love to see that (none / 0) (#28)
    by Lil on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:55:18 PM EST
    but I just can't watch one more second of these jack....s

    Parent
    CBS reporting instances (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by Makarov on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:55:00 PM EST
    where Indianans couldn't vote for lack of ID.  The headline is a group of 80-90 year old nuns, some of whom had expired passports:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/06/ap/national/main4076130.shtml

    They also mention a student who had a student ID and an out of state driver's license.

    Hopefully, now that people have actually been turned away for lack of ID, and not given the opportunity to file a provisional ballot, they'll have the standing to challenge last month's SCOTUS ruling.

    What About That Video Chimster Posted On (none / 0) (#60)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:00:58 PM EST
    another thread where there was a sign that said, something to the effect that if:

    IF YOU ARE HAVING TROUBLE VOTING
    LET US HELP YOU...

    obama "08

    This was inside the voting place.

    Parent

    I hope so, because (none / 0) (#118)
    by eleanora on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:10:05 PM EST
    we're in deep trouble in November if that ruling stands.

    Parent
    Eggheads and AAs (5.00 / 5) (#31)
    by Iphie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:55:27 PM EST
    Paul Begala's question to Donna Brazile about this "New Democratic Party" she's talking about -- "do you think we can win elections with a coalition of egg-heads and African Americans?" (paraphrase). Ooh boy, she is defensive. She even acknowledged it, referring to herself as "grumpy."

    Apparently, Donna has had more beers with more "Joe Six Packs" than most whites.

    Okay, she's grumpy with everyone. She's shouting at the whole panel. Why's she worried if Obama is as good as the nominee?

    Donna's meltdown is almost reason enough to watch CNN.

    Based on her record (5.00 / 0) (#38)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:56:40 PM EST
    she did not manage to keep them on the Dem side

    Parent
    Her meltdown (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by americanincanada on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:58:03 PM EST
    was quite something wasn't it?

    I think she might know a little something about how the wind is blowing with the supers and how this lopsided, racial win in NC looks to them.

    she really lost it.

    Parent

    It was somethin' (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:58:05 PM EST
    She didn't like being called out.  Who knew Campbell Brown would be the one reporter to ask a very frank question this political season?

    Parent
    HA! (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by pie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:58:27 PM EST
    Why's she worried if Obama is as good as the nominee?

    Because he's not.

    Parent

    Cooking With Grease? (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:58:38 PM EST
    Or playing with fire?  Donna B can't help herself.  She's in the tank for Obama.  She oughta just let it be known. It's so obvious.

    She's as subtle as ebola.

    Parent

    Boy, she really lost it (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Dr Molly on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:02:23 PM EST
    I thought she might lean over and punch that one guy when he asked about Obama's relationships - Ayers, Wright, etc.

    She really got a little vicious there.

    Parent

    funny! my brother had a beer (or more) with her (none / 0) (#111)
    by katiebird on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:09:08 PM EST
    and Al Franken at a hotel bar in Iowa in 2004.

    Parent
    Brazille and CNN are stupid (5.00 / 7) (#36)
    by stefystef on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:56:20 PM EST
    If they think promoting the obvious racial composition of the vote in NC will bring white, BlueDog Democrats to the Obama fold, they are very wrong.

    Ignoring MI and FL will have those states go Red in November.

    As usual the Dems are going to mess up and help McCain into office.  Hillary is the better candidate, but voters are voting their hatred.

    I'm sending Hill more money tomorrow.  I want her to keep going to June.

    Go Hillary Go!

    fl goes red (none / 0) (#57)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:59:59 PM EST
    and no negotiation on medicaid rates.  Go right ahead florida, enjoy the cat food for dinner.

    Parent
    If Fl goes Red as in 2004 (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Florida Resident on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:08:44 PM EST
    you can blame the DNC.  Florida was blue in 2000 and got the votes stolen because of lack of courage by the Democrats and an unconstitutional interference by the Supreme Court.  But if it goes Red this year it falls entirely on the DNC's lap.

    Parent
    and the older folks (none / 0) (#148)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:15:15 PM EST
    who have no bargaining power from their elected officials with pharmaceuticals will be eating cat food.  

    argument still stands.  You can eat cat food or crow, their choice.

    Parent

    Actually if anyone in the Democratic (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by Florida Resident on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:22:12 PM EST
    party scares me in that line of thinking,  You know willing to negotiate SS and Medicare in the call for Unity is Obama..  He does not even believe in Universal Health Care other than the regular lip service even McCain gives it.  

    Parent
    good move (none / 0) (#191)
    by RalphB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:23:41 PM EST
    bring the disaffected to McCain.  they'll be quite welcome there.

    Parent
    great move (none / 0) (#198)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:25:57 PM EST
    especially for those that are ascribe to the christian tenet of "you reap what you sow".  Vote for the party who put you in the position and who intends to make it worse for you.  Sounds like a fitting punishment to me.

    Cat food or crow?  

    Parent

    BTW there are probably more old people eating (none / 0) (#213)
    by Florida Resident on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:31:36 PM EST
    cat food in Chicago, NYC, LA etc. than in Miami, Orlando, Tampa or Jacksonville.

    Parent
    That'll make (none / 0) (#150)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:15:27 PM EST
    a great Obama flyer.

    Parent
    I am certain (none / 0) (#179)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:21:06 PM EST
    that goes against the unity schtick, but it is also a reality.  

    Parent
    To me? (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by AnninCA on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:01:29 PM EST
    It's not about who voted for whom.

    It's the sheer volume in NC, even as hard as she worked, with the good press, etc.

    I'd say.......let him win.

    As for me personally?

    Obama isn't "my guy."  Neither is McCain.

    I'll probably stay home, but I'm just one voter.

    Tonight, Im feeling a whole lot worse for working class Americans.

    They are just hit out of luck."

    *sigh

    I no longer fear (1.00 / 0) (#89)
    by lilybart on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:06:07 PM EST
    the so-called Dems who won't vote for the Dem nominee. There are so many newly registered Dem voters, that I think it will offset.

    Parent
    you must be related to (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:08:40 PM EST
    Donna Brazile...let's see how far you get without trying to bring in working class and Hispanics and older women.

    Parent
    Hilarious. (5.00 / 0) (#129)
    by pie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:11:42 PM EST
    You mean the ones that (5.00 / 1) (#233)
    by FlaDemFem on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:49:14 PM EST
    crossed over to vote for Obama to keep Hillary from getting the nomination?? They won't stick around for the GE. They will all vote for McCain because they are Republicans. Surely you realize that?? That "Dem for a Day" crap is going to come back and bite him in the ass. And it should. Unfortunately, the rest of us are going to have to pay the price of Obama's stupidity. He really needs to start thinking about consequences and looking at the election as a whole, not as two equal contests. The nomination is just the warm up. Imagine how Obama is going to handle the GOP in the GE given that he thinks the primary campaign has been like "the Bataan Death March". Then watch as he goes down in flames. Taking the Democratic Party with him.

    Parent
    LOL (none / 0) (#160)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:16:30 PM EST
    Thanks, I needed that!!!!!  :)

    Parent
    Me too (none / 0) (#74)
    by Prabhata on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:03:31 PM EST
    I really wanted her margins to be better in NC and IN.  Hey, same voters that elected Bush twice are at it again.  Can't expect a different result when we have the same constant.

    Parent
    Via Halperin (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by americanincanada on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:02:12 PM EST
    Hillary will make her intention to continue unabiguously clear.

    Of course she will. (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by pie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:03:30 PM EST
    She's not going anywhere.

    Parent
    Objects are closer than they appear (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by Katherine Graham Cracker on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:03:51 PM EST
    The final margin in NC is going to be around 9
    it's not the big blow out it looks now.

    This is nice fabricated drama... but... (5.00 / 6) (#79)
    by Exeter on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:04:38 PM EST
    Its still the same old story of Obama losing the white vote and winning with almost all of the black vote.

    How Can Only 8% of AAs (5.00 / 7) (#81)
    by BDB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:04:57 PM EST
    claim race was important to their vote and 93% of them voted for Obama in NC.  You know, I understand why AAs vote for Obama, but this is just insulting my intelligence.

    People say the darnest things. (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Prabhata on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:08:15 PM EST
    Consider your intelligence (5.00 / 3) (#123)
    by Edgar08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:11:04 PM EST
    Insulted.


    Parent
    Well, I think I heard this before... (none / 0) (#174)
    by Josmt on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:20:02 PM EST
    AA are voting based on the color of his skin and not the content of his character... sorry to say it... and I'm not afraid to say it... but it's reality... AA are not voting based on the issues but base on getting an AA as the nominee whether he's qualified or not.

    Parent
    You could say the same thing (none / 0) (#201)
    by echinopsia on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:26:35 PM EST
    about any of his supporters, though. It's not his policies - he's vague and changes his tsance depending on who he's talking to. His supporters don't care.

    Parent
    You could say the same thing (none / 0) (#206)
    by echinopsia on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:27:42 PM EST
    about any of his supporters, though. It's not his policies - he's vague and changes his stance depending on who he's talking to. His supporters don't care.

    Parent
    This is why I don't watch TV news anymore (5.00 / 4) (#85)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:05:35 PM EST
    It's pretty obvious that he's been running a dirty city-style campaign, though. I recognize it from Philly, where he's worked.

    How can that be? (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by janarchy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:05:49 PM EST
    David Axelrod is as pure as driven snow and this is a race where Obama is not going to deal with old style politics. He's above it all. Only Hillary deals with Rovian/Atwater style politics. /snark

    Here's a link for live results via (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:06:23 PM EST
    NC State Board of Elections. Does anybody have a link for IN?

    Notice the REAL numbers (none / 0) (#208)
    by americanincanada on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:29:20 PM EST
    out of NC are very different than the ones CNN and everyone else in the MSM is using. CBS is saying that it will be closer in NC than it now appears.

    Parent
    HRC has done terrific against all odds (5.00 / 4) (#94)
    by Prabhata on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:07:04 PM EST
    The cards have been stacked against her.  The rules of the nominating process were against her and we who support her have to recognize that the Dems will have a weaker candidate and if he were to become president, a weak president.  I predict that if he reaches the WH he'll be another inept president like Bush.

    Class (5.00 / 8) (#100)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:07:50 PM EST
    What is pathetic is that this should have been a class based election.  Obama with his faux coalition basically has efd the middle and lower income folks.  What is wrong with AAs, voting against their interests.  

    So, I give up that Americans will ever get it, it's about economics and class.  It's not race.  

    Obama, was the spoiler, put in by the corporatists to sustain the corporate interests, they got scared.  Even if he wins the GE, it will be Republican pablum light.  

    Haven't you heard? (5.00 / 5) (#126)
    by ChiTownDenny on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:11:37 PM EST
    The Clintons are racists.  They became racists about two months ago, after spending a lifetime, each, pursuing the fight for AAs.

    Parent
    You know it, (5.00 / 4) (#130)
    by janarchy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:11:46 PM EST
    I know it, the majority of the people here know it. Everyone else has been drinking the kool-aid and thinks they know 'it' but will be proven dead wrong, just like they were with Bush and Nader in 2000.

    Parent
    The CNN argument right now (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by lilburro on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:09:03 PM EST
    from Toobin, shocks me.  He's been arguing with the one female commentator (sorry, I don't know her name, at his table though) all night.  He keeps saying "he's winning, he doesn't need to change anything!"  Uh...really?  You have no constructive suggestions for Obama?  You have nothing to say considering how close the race is, how few swing states he's won, etc.?  

    Time for some CSpan.  Toobin should go back to writing about the Supreme Court.

    Cannot watch Obama speech, (5.00 / 4) (#114)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:09:21 PM EST
    that smirk looks way too much like Bush.  

    I had to switch (none / 0) (#197)
    by Makarov on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:25:49 PM EST
    to Dangerous Catch.  The Capt of Cordelia Marie looks kind of sick still.  Northwestern is getting close to a full tank, but they're only pulling 20 a pot.

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:09:58 PM EST
    Florida and Michigan don't count.  You got your memes mixed up.

    And Hill's supporters are supposed to be low-info, down market?

    Won't be so snide when the GOP kicks his ass all over the media with a POW running against him and those juicy Rev Wright videos "tawkin' about his momma!"

    I'm re-watching the Donna Brazile meltdown (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by Iphie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:11:40 PM EST
    (tivo, so I can rewind) and just before the smoke starts to come out of her ears, Campbell is talking to a different panel that includes John King and some others -- and as this group is talking about what Obama needs to do in order to win, Donna is visible over John's shoulder, and see her becoming increasingly agitated -- she could not contain herself, she was getting visibly angry.

    Wow. For those of you who didn't see it, I'm sure it will be on youtube in no time.

    YouTube (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by dissenter on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:16:00 PM EST
    It is gonna be a McCain campaign commerical

    Parent
    wouldn't it be cool if another egg ommeltte (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by thereyougo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:12:51 PM EST
    in their face if Hillary gained within 5% In NC?

    since the vote is still being counted and she's gaining.

    I can't believe this.

    Michelle is tall though. Whats he smiling about?

    they haven't even counted all the votes???? WTF'nF?

    She's Not Dropping Out (5.00 / 3) (#153)
    by BDB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:15:47 PM EST
    Given that it looks like she won Indiana and most of the white vote in NC.  She's got a 30-point lead in two upcoming states.  If she were dropping out do you think Brazile would be so angry?  


    That's what I figured... (none / 0) (#185)
    by NWHiker on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:22:23 PM EST
    but there were several posts that seemed to imply that she was done as of tonight... even though these results were 95% expected.

    Thanks!

    Parent

    FOX and CNN (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by miriam on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:16:18 PM EST
    have not called Indiana yet.  The large areas with black voters haven't reported, so how can CBS make this prediction?

    I swear, if the Democrats make us accept Obama, I think we should vote Green party.  I grant you that Nader's nuts, but it would sure shock the heck out of the Democratic party if the Greens got millions of votes. It would raise the Green profile and that can only be good, since I think the Dems will collapse if (when) they lose in November.  

    um... (none / 0) (#178)
    by andreww on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:21:04 PM EST
    If you are going to vote for the green party then you are voting for Cynthia McKinney.  Nader isn't their candidate this go around - hasn't been since 2000.

    Parent
    I would vote for mccain before n#@&r- (none / 0) (#212)
    by kenosharick on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:31:14 PM EST
    cannot say his name. The egotistical sob cost us two elections.(with help)

    Parent
    Delete needed Jeralyn ^^^ (none / 0) (#221)
    by Teresa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:35:23 PM EST
    He's saying Nader (5.00 / 1) (#226)
    by Makarov on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:40:09 PM EST
    not what you think hah

    Parent
    Hey Teresa (5.00 / 1) (#232)
    by kenosharick on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:44:18 PM EST
    Read my post before you start accusing me of vile things. You owe me an apology.

    Parent
    You are offensive to the extreme (none / 0) (#229)
    by feet on earth on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:41:06 PM EST
    Ask the people that lived in the Rezko (5.00 / 2) (#161)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:16:30 PM EST
    housing how much this opportunist stood up for those people.  

    Maybe I should run for President (5.00 / 0) (#169)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:19:00 PM EST
    I'm Chicano.  Maybe I can come out with a bunch of hollow platitudes, get a cranky wife, join a militant Chicano church that refers to a former first lady as the 'n' word, cozy up to some 1960s terrorists and play the Latinos and the guilt-ridden Americans for all their votes for 'stealing' land that was originally owned by Native Americans.

    Naw...wouldn't work.  The race baiting, my spotty record, my never holding office for a long time. Surely the media would catch on to me.  Never in a million years.

    Yes, (none / 0) (#190)
    by andreww on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:23:39 PM EST
    Just make sure you also get a law degree, (preferably also become the president of that school's law review) teach constitutional law at the university of chicago, get into politics and represent your home state in the state house or senate, get elected to the US senate, and inspire a few million people along the way.

    Parent
    Reality throws an egg on Zogby's face (5.00 / 0) (#218)
    by truthseeker77 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:34:45 PM EST
    Zogby, polling firm whose CEO's brother publicly asked Hillary to withdraw from the race, predicted a 2% win for Obama in Indiana.

    Yes, he nailed it in PA, but as the saying goes, "even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while."

    Lookit, folks (5.00 / 2) (#224)
    by Kathy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:38:14 PM EST
    Obama was slated to win both IN and NC a month ago.  CLINTON TOOK AWAY HIS WIN.  Let me repeat: she was projected to lose both IN and NC.  Go back and look at the Obama spreadsheet.  Indiana has him up by 12!

    And NC isn't over by a long-shot.  There are still votes to count, no matter what CNN wants to tell us.  These are the f*ckers who sold us Bush and the war!  Why are we listening to them now???

    Clinton should not step down.  She should not concede.  She was supposed to lose both of these contests as of polling from two weeks ago.  Why are you guys sad-sacking now?  For the love of peeps, nothing has changed.  All these races do is tell us that there need to be more races.

    Why on earth would you count her out now?  What has drastically changed, other than the racial demographics have gotten even more polarized?  (for the worse, and I don't mean worse for Clinton)

    Clinton isn't giving up and neither am I.  Stop your moping!  Our girl needs us now.

    this place is downright (5.00 / 2) (#227)
    by ccpup on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:40:33 PM EST
    depressing tonight!  It ain't over, people.

    Parent
    Welcome back!!! (1.00 / 0) (#6)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:50:50 PM EST
    Good night for Obama imho

    In your honest opinion, (5.00 / 0) (#32)
    by pie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:55:31 PM EST
    how will he do in the next batch of primaries?

    Parent
    I your honest opinion (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by smott on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:56:17 PM EST
    HOw the hell is he going to win the general?

    Parent
    motivated bases (5.00 / 0) (#77)
    by andreww on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:04:03 PM EST
    they each have won about as many votes as mccain did in his primaries - when there were still contests.

    I actually believe either one would beat McCain handily.  As Bill Maher says - will half of America really say "yes, more wrong track please"

    Keep in mind, they've each won roughly 15 million voters.  McCain has won about 10 million or so - i think?  There will be 100 million voters in the general.  that leaves 60 million people that didn't vote in the primaries.  Those voters will choose the president and I believe they would choose Clinton or Obama over McCain.

    Parent

    Lots of voters (none / 0) (#189)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:23:14 PM EST
    don't see McCain as part of the "wrong track" crowd, thanks to media "maverick" storyline.  The whole premise is bogus.  McCain turns things upside down.  He will win handily against Obama, IMHO.


    Parent
    honestly (none / 0) (#71)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:03:08 PM EST
    i think he'll win Oregon, Montana, and S. Dakota, lose West Virginia, Kentucky, and maybe P.R.

    He will be ahead in states, delegates and votes.  

    Parent

    And? (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by americanincanada on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:05:29 PM EST
    The question is...how does he win the GE with only the AA vote and ultra liberals?

    Parent
    you forgot the third category... (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by p lukasiak on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:09:04 PM EST
    Hillary haters.

    of course, without Hillary, these people will have no reason to support Obama...

    Parent

    yup (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by Salo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:18:54 PM EST
    There goes the motivation to vote Obama.

    Parent
    soccer moms (1.00 / 0) (#102)
    by andreww on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:08:04 PM EST
    who don't like Hillary.

    Parent
    Just making it up as you go along, eh? (none / 0) (#137)
    by madamab on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:12:49 PM EST
    um, no. (none / 0) (#168)
    by andreww on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:18:57 PM EST
    the suburbs with the city folk- that's how he's going to win.

    Parent
    Continuing fallacy (1.00 / 0) (#121)
    by aequitas on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:10:28 PM EST
    There's no logical reason to assume Clinton's voters in the primary are going to vote for McCain in the general election.  Just saying it over and over does not make it so.  

    Parent
    You are right (none / 0) (#199)
    by americanincanada on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:26:05 PM EST
    we won't vote for McCain...

    WE'LL STAY HOME...or write in Hillary's name. That's what I plan to do. I will not vote for a man who neither wants my vote nor has earned it.

    Parent

    He doesn't. (none / 0) (#115)
    by madamab on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:09:22 PM EST
    But don't expect Obama supporters to admit that.

    Parent
    Been listening to the Tee Vee? (none / 0) (#203)
    by lilybart on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:27:05 PM EST
    That is almost an exact Mcauliff quote!

    Now Obama is a candidate for the ultra-lilberals? I thought he was McCain in younger man's clothes?

    Parent

    Is that your prediction for the GE? I don't think (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:13:19 PM EST
    he'll get 5 states.

    Parent
    You think it's good (none / 0) (#195)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:25:00 PM EST
    he didn't get his predicted win in Indiana which is closely tied to his home state?  Really?  Around, what? 38% of the white vote?  That's good?  Oh never mind, I don't even want to hear it.

    Parent
    So when does your candidate put Obama away? (1.00 / 4) (#11)
    by rdandrea on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:52:06 PM EST
    Never?

    OK.

    So how about the big states?  NC is bigger than IN?

    Oh.

    maybe when all the states are counted (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Dawn Davenport on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:53:40 PM EST
    rather than 48 of them.

    Parent
    Make sure you count caucus states too. (none / 0) (#156)
    by aequitas on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:16:11 PM EST
    eom

    Parent
    Is Florida bigger than Guam (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by Lil on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:54:05 PM EST
    or about 20 other places?

    Parent
    Good One Lil....lmao (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:02:54 PM EST
    The same could (5.00 / 4) (#33)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:55:37 PM EST
    be asked of your candidate.  Out spending her 3:1 in PA and he still got his tail soundly kicked.

    No big surprise he wins NC.  We all knew that.  Since neither one can 'put the other away', we shall see what happens as the elections move on.

    IN is supposed to be the tie breaker, according to BHO.  CBS News just broke that tie.  

    Go Hillary!!

    Parent

    I live in MI. (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by pie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:56:22 PM EST
    It had better be counted.

    Parent
    We do know this (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by Edgar08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:14:12 PM EST
    Neither Indiana nor North Carolina will be blue in November.

    Oh.

    Parent

    6% (1.00 / 0) (#54)
    by andreww on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:59:21 PM EST
    is the current margin in Indiana.  May be a little early to believe CBS as well.

    don't worry (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by p lukasiak on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:16:21 PM EST
    sount bend and fort wayne are both in, most of indianapolis is in, and it looks to me like most of what is left is clinton country

    Parent
    do you guys agree (1.00 / 0) (#80)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:04:49 PM EST
    that if obama has more delegates, states and votes, that he should be the Dem nominee????

    Not without (5.00 / 5) (#92)
    by janarchy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:06:31 PM EST
    Florida and Michigan, I don't.

    Parent
    Not without Michigan and Florida. (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by pie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:07:13 PM EST
    If we count FL and MI, and that's still true, yes (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:07:15 PM EST
    No, because he cannot beat McCain n/t (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by echinopsia on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:07:45 PM EST
    Include FL and MI. (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:11:26 PM EST
    Period.

    Parent
    Why would you care? (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by lambert on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:25:37 PM EST
    We're racists.

    In fact, I assume that's why you want to throw us out.

    Parent

    Do you agree that if one guy's a 9-1 underdog ... (none / 0) (#231)
    by RonK Seattle on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:43:29 PM EST
    ... and the other gal's a 4-1 favorite (against McCain), that we should go with the "other gal"?

    http://hominidviews.com/?p=1504

    Parent

    Another Groundhog day for Clinton (1.00 / 0) (#98)
    by aequitas on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:07:20 PM EST
    She picks up a win, and Obama picks up the most delegates.  

    Who's picking up the check for the next round?

    Looks like I'm in (none / 0) (#211)
    by lilybart on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:30:32 PM EST
    Haven't reached my limit yet, but I will donate again tonight!

    Word is Hillary needs some serious turkey.

    Parent

    Only 20% in for NC (none / 0) (#42)
    by madamab on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:57:33 PM EST
    It's way, way too early to declare a margin of victory for Obama.

    20% in and what is it? (none / 0) (#53)
    by smott on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:59:02 PM EST
    60+ to 30+?
    Even if it closes hugely for HRC it's still abig loss.
    Get ready for the din tomorrow for her to get out.

    Parent
    28% in (none / 0) (#122)
    by madamab on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:10:53 PM EST
    60-40 now.

    The margin will not end up this way.

    But of course they will be screaming for her to get out. They don't want to see her clobbering him in WV and Kentucky.

    Parent

    I'm one to say (none / 0) (#46)
    by AnninCA on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:58:17 PM EST
    it's over.  NC was important.  Not in winning. That was out of reach.

    But this is too big of a break.

    I'd advise Hillary to concede.

    Hillary losing to Obama is between (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:01:09 PM EST
    Gore losing in 2000 and Kerry in 2004 in terms of magnitude of disappointment. What a disaster for Democrats and the country---two horrible choices.

    Parent
    Why would you say that? (5.00 / 8) (#68)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:02:36 PM EST
    She would be leaving states like KY and WV on the table?  Bill Clinton WON THOSE STATES TWICE!

    Hell no she needs to keep going.  This is what the DNC wants.  They want her to step down.  Those morons don't care if they allow Barack to bring the party down with him?  Jeez!  Can they NOT see McGovern ALL over again with Obama?

    I'm not some great strategist but even I CAN see that.


    Parent

    Brokaw (none / 0) (#78)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:04:21 PM EST
    is telling her to get out, and telling Obama to work the back channels to get her to concede.

    Parent
    I see this (none / 0) (#101)
    by ChiTownDenny on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:07:57 PM EST
    night's results as close to fatal.  Maybe I'm just depressed about NC.

    Parent
    Uh, according to the NYTimes (5.00 / 5) (#75)
    by Iphie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:03:42 PM EST
    only 21% of the precints are in in NC -- I highly doubt Obama will keep that kind of a lead. Let's all take a deep breath and wait until the votes are counted.

    Parent
    Yes, wait, wait, wait (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:20:14 PM EST
    he was always going to win NC -- this bs being spun right now by the msm that she "had to win NC" is just that -- bs! He himself said IN was the tie-breaker, but, as the Obama camp said the "expectations have been reset." The cacophony of Obama supporters calling for her to get out will start (just like before and after TX & OH). We need shut those voices out, stay focused, stay in and get KY, WV & PR, do well in OR & SD & get FL & MI counted -- only then will we be able to judge who should be "in" and who should be "out."    

    Parent
    please get real (5.00 / 5) (#131)
    by p lukasiak on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:11:58 PM EST
    look at the Demographics...

    Hillary needs to stay in if the Dems are going to have a chance to win in November.

    Parent

    Hang in there, Ann. (none / 0) (#59)
    by eleanora on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:00:52 PM EST
    They always have to adjust the exits according to turnout, let's see how it plays out.

    Parent
    IN (none / 0) (#52)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:59:02 PM EST
    Down to 6% now and tightening... hmm...

    I think this argument is going no where (none / 0) (#142)
    by ajain on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:14:00 PM EST
    I think she should concede.
    I predicted this would be a bad night for her because the momentum was on his side in the last couple of days.
    Anyway, this just depresses me. I feel like if she hadnt gone down the deep end with the populist message and hadnt adopted/attacked Obama on the Gas Tax Holiday, I think this would have been a huge night for her. But its over.

    No one concedes (none / 0) (#164)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:18:07 PM EST
    You might be right (none / 0) (#165)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:18:33 PM EST
    Obama is not doing much to get my vote in his victory speech.  His supporters have booed Clinton twice so far...

    Parent
    You might be right (none / 0) (#166)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:18:50 PM EST
    Obama is not doing much to get my vote in his victory speech.  His supporters have booed Clinton twice so far...

    Parent
    talk to the hand.... (none / 0) (#183)
    by thereyougo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:22:00 PM EST
    we know you're for Obama.His people have been wanting Hillary to get out, why do you people hate America?

    Parent
    See you in Denver (none / 0) (#230)
    by Makarov on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:43:07 PM EST
    because Hillary is going all the way.  Dean, Brazile, et al are setting it up so that's the only way she can win (MI/FL).  So be it.

    Parent
    If he gets within 4 in IN... (none / 0) (#143)
    by mike in dc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:14:08 PM EST
    ...I think that's it for her.  At this point she'd be lucky to escape with an 8 point win in the smaller state and a 12 point loss in the bigger one.

    You guys say that (none / 0) (#173)
    by kmblue on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:19:36 PM EST
    after every primary, before every primary--
    oh wait.  You say it all the time.

    Parent
    From George Vreeland Hill (none / 0) (#162)
    by Vreeland on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:16:46 PM EST
    President Obama?
    It is getting close to being a reality.
    It is not over yet, and we still have a chance to see another President Clinton, although it is a slim chance.
    One thing is for sure ...
    McCain has no chance.
    In fact, every Republican must be shaking in their paid for out of your pocket shoes.
    If you think the Republicans took a beating last time, just wait until November!
    The brooms are coming out again to sweep up the Republican mess.
    I am,

    George Vreeland Hill

    Obama is asking for Hillary's voters (none / 0) (#181)
    by Kensdad on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:21:41 PM EST
    but when that crowd chants "yes we can" all i think about is how much i dislike obama...

    Has he fixed his health care plan? (5.00 / 1) (#209)
    by lambert on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:30:01 PM EST
    Anything on policy at all?

    Then he's not asking for my vote.

    Parent

    ditto (none / 0) (#216)
    by RalphB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:33:59 PM EST
    the guy really does suck

    Parent
    Bad, Sad Night- I have long resigned (none / 0) (#200)
    by kenosharick on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:26:13 PM EST
    myself to Barack as the nominee, but was sooooo hoping the voters of NC would bring the party to its senses. I was called by the DNC for money in the middle of this tonite and told her "no money until the voters of Mich/Fla get justice!" I just hope Obama does not take the whole party down with him- though that seems to be the plan of the "leadership"

    Bad, Sad Night- I have long resigned (none / 0) (#204)
    by kenosharick on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:27:32 PM EST
    myself to Barack as the nominee, but was sooooo hoping the voters of NC would bring the party to its senses. I was called by the DNC for money in the middle of this tonite and told her "no money until the voters of Mich/Fla get justice!" I just hope Obama does not take the whole party down with him- though that seems to be the plan of the "leadership"

    I Still Don't Understand... (none / 0) (#205)
    by AmyinSC on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:27:37 PM EST
    WHY liberals are supporting Obama (and I have always considered myself to be VERY liberal).  I mean, this guy wants to return to the foreign policies of DONALD RUMSFELD (i.e., .G.H.W. Bush).  Haven't we spent the last 5 yrs FIGHTING his policies??  And REAGAN??  Reagan was HORRIBLE for the AA community, not to mention many, many others of us.  I just cannot get over how blind an eye people have turned - he has espoused pretty conservative notions, and the progressives are all behind him?!?!?  

    I tell you - in keeping with some of the other comments, I would have ALREADY moved to Canada if it wasn't so darn cold there (really bad knees)!!  If Hillary isn't the Dem. nominee, the chances of equality for the LGBT community is going to be in serious jeopardy - OBAMA sure won't stick his neck out any (and that's ANOTHER THING!!!  Sheesh!).

    OK.  We knew Obama was going to win NC, but her win in IN was NOT previously expected, so we cannot allow them to frame the results so negatively (and has anyone else noticed that they ALWAYS wait to declare for Clinton, no matter how far away Obama is?  Obama - they call right off the bat.  Just another tactic, IMHO.).

    Man what is up with lake county. (none / 0) (#210)
    by Faust on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:30:24 PM EST
    Taking FOREVER.

    The man is running to become Don Quixote (none / 0) (#214)
    by Kensdad on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:32:27 PM EST
    he's going to make all of our differences disappear...  he's going to do away with red and blue states, black and white people...  gee, that would be really nice, but is that a platform to become president?

    No, no rumors, but a few people here (Hillary (none / 0) (#222)
    by feet on earth on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:36:25 PM EST
    supporters) suggested that she should.  Not me. But if ever does, she cannot walk over to him and work her hart out for him without protecting fundamental democratic principles.

    Comments closing here (none / 0) (#223)
    by Jeralyn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:38:01 PM EST
    there's a new thread