Obama Tells Workers, When They Lose Their Job, They Lose Their Dignity

If I were an Indiana voter listening to Obama, I don't think I'd appreciate him telling me that since I've lost my job, I've lost my dignity. The crowd didn't react to the statement. Certainly no cheering.

See what you think.

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    a very elitist statement I think on the same (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by athyrio on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:26:55 AM EST
    order as the bitter, etc. remarks in San Francisco..... It is like he doesn't have a clue how we feel in the blue collar class and what is important to us....

    When not in his 1-stump-speech mode, (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by andrys on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:09:45 AM EST
    ... he tends to not think through his off-the-cuff statements.

     I have to wonder at people who think it natural that after such a long, arduous campaign (which he keeps complaining about) he still has the same old stump speech which I know by heart.

      Add his statement in San Francisco (yes, in that fundraiser with the cling-to microscopic look at people) he actually said,

    "Ironically, this is an area--foreign policy is the area where I am probably most confident that I know more and understand the world better than Senator Clinton or Senator McCain."
     . . .
    "When Senator Clinton brags 'I've met leaders from eighty countries'--I know what those trips are like! I've been on them. You go from the airport to the embassy. There's a group of children who do native dance..."

    "You do that in eighty countries--you don't know those eighty countries. So when I speak about having lived in Indonesia for four years, having family that is impoverished in small villages in Africa--knowing the leaders is not important--what I know is the people. . . ."

      He was age 6 to 10 or so when living in Indonesia.  That he can say this in all seriousness and get away with it when Clinton would be pummeled to the ground if she said something so insane, says more than I want to know about this campaign and the mindsets that allow such statements to  go unexamined.  HOPE can ignore reason.

      He spent a couple of weeks in the middle east when he was a college student, so he is more experienced than Clinton or McCain when it comes to "foreign policy."  The man is severely delusional in this area (and I have to wonder what other areas).



    Indeed! (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by felizarte on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:26:58 AM EST
    Except that I think, he tends to say exactly what is in his mind and heart which is quite revealing of his shallowness.  How very wrong of him to equate dignity with one's economic status!

    No fan but... (none / 0) (#73)
    by RustedView on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:34:00 AM EST
    I'm no fan of Obama, or Clinton, or McCain, but...
    I think Obama is trying to turn himself into a firebrand as a strategy for winning in places like Indiana.  I can see Eugene V. Debs up on stage in his home state going on about how "When they take your job, they are trying to take your dignity with it.  A man's work is his livelihood and a man can take pride in his work, can find dignity in it.  When they ship your good jobs to the lowest-bidding country, they are trying to take your dignity away from you.  Stand up and let it be known that 'No, my dignity is mine, not yours to take!'"

    Maybe it's just my naivete, but I'd like to think Obama goes off script in these moments and just doesn't phrase what he is thinking correctly.  Sadly, I know that isn't true, everything is scripted these days.

    One last thing, as a direct reply to felizarte:  Our society equates dignity with economic status all the time.  The Bill Gates sits at the top of our ladder, while the unemployed and homeless are considered the lowest, with no dignity.  There was a recent NYT article about a homeless man in Queens who begs for money in a suit and tie, which I think disproves the point, but this sort of classism still exists in our society, you just won't here most politicians (save Edwards) explicitly talk about it.


    I've lived overseas.... (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by JavaCityPal on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:50:44 AM EST
    Quite near his childhood location, too. Papua New Guinea (on the border with Indonesia), Saudi Arabia, and Australia. There was a huge difference between what we came to understand about the culture in the countries we lived vs. those we simply vacationed in for a few weeks. He shows no understanding of any cultures. But, my favorite of his comments is:

    "When Senator Clinton brags 'I've met leaders from eighty countries'--I know what those trips are like! I've been on them. You go from the airport to the embassy. There's a group of children who do native dance..."

    You suppose a junior senator gets the same treatment as a First Lady? The trips she made were not the routine, especially not when she traveled with her husband. Obama really talks to us like we are stupid.

    Although, the dignity comment...I lost my job in February, it's hard to hold onto dignity after that, but not impossible.


    As long as I cling to my gun... (5.00 / 5) (#20)
    by lambert on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:57:18 AM EST
    ... I won't feel I've lost any dignity at all!

    don't forget your (none / 0) (#37)
    by cpinva on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:52:37 AM EST
    bible! :)

    It's funny... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Kathy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:39:20 AM EST
    It is like he doesn't have a clue how we feel in the blue collar class

    because, if you listen to what he says and read the biographical info on him and his mother...Obama seems to be embracing the same upper middle class lifestyle that his mother ran away from.


    obama seems to have lost his dignity long ago... (1.00 / 0) (#66)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:01:32 AM EST
    Someone who has lost their job is not going to feel any better by what he said.  Where the hell does he get this stuff?

    Some of us are comforted by a pol (none / 0) (#81)
    by halstoon on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:11:32 PM EST
    who isn't constantly blowing smoke up our a$$es.

    When you lose your job and the whole town goes down the $hitter b/c the factory left town, you aren't exactly excited about life, my friend.

    When you see the gov't then give the company that laid you off a tax credit for giving your job to India, well, you don't feel like the gov't see you as very dignified.


    PiC equals Psychoanalyst in Chief (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Edgar08 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:02:15 AM EST
    And even if I was voting for one, I wouldn't vote for him.

    good one ;) (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by kimsaw on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:36:55 AM EST
    Hopefully he'll lose his dignity on Tuesday, and then cling to his bitterness.

    Word (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by jedimom on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:30:46 PM EST
    look he is looking at Indianans through a magnifying glass
    the Dem base seems to be an interesting species to him

    he certainly doesnt 'feel' or 'get' us (the base) IMHO


    This is what you consider (none / 0) (#82)
    by halstoon on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:12:36 PM EST
    sound criticism?

    Your actions betray your protestations.


    Depends on the person (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by diplomatic on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:27:48 AM EST
    Some people feel there is no dignity in struggle while others are able to keep a positive outlook and hold on to a sense of self-worth regardless of extraneous circumstances.  Obama is just lecturing a little bit, as usual.

    sociology (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by p lukasiak on Mon May 05, 2008 at 06:39:38 AM EST
    Its obvious that Obama gets his understanding of working class people from his classes in sociology and social psychology --- and those conclusions are based on studies of groups over long periods of time and/or interviews with people who are expressing how they feel inside.

    People don't "lose [their] place in the community...lose [their] dignity" when they lose their jobs.  They struggle with those issues perhaps, but there is no "lose your job >>> lose your dignity" phenomenon.  Obama doesn't understand that.


    More than that, there is a factor in white collar (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by hellskitchen on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:01:19 AM EST
    professionals that makes them feel that they are not working class.  This is a snobbery that generally hits them in their dignity somewhere in their fifties, when they become too expensive to keep on, what with salary increases, extended vacations accrued, health insurance liabilities due to age.

    When white collar professionals who are employees rather than business owners understand that as long you need a paycheck to survive and someone else has the sayso on whether you get a paycheck, you are working class.  Makes no difference whether you have life education, college degree, masters or ph.d.

    The Democratic Party would be a lot further along in unity if the white collar class would wake up.

    Problem is, when it hits them in their fifties, they think they're a special case.


    Well they are a special case in a sense (none / 0) (#31)
    by hellskitchen on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:02:23 AM EST
    By that time it's age discrimination.

    It's changed so much, too (none / 0) (#50)
    by Kathy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:55:42 AM EST
    because it used to be that folks started out at one company and worked there until they got the gold watch.  You were loyal to the company and they were loyal to you.  Then came Reagan and the Greed Decade.  Now, it's the norm for folks move around a lot.  You don't think your life is over if you have to change jobs.

    I disagree (none / 0) (#86)
    by piniella on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:40:32 PM EST
    but there is no "lose your job >>> lose your dignity" phenomenon.

    Yes there is.  

    If you suddenly need food stamps amd Medicaid and can no longer take care of your family, you do feel that you've lost some dignity.


    dignity (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by jedimom on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:31:24 PM EST
    I would proudly shovel shxt to support my family, PROUDLY and with dignity

    Is it just the camera angle (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:13:37 AM EST
    or did it seem like this was not a very well-attended event?  

    Doesn't he usually draw crowds in the thousands?  This looks like an improptu speech at a bus station.  Is he sputtering out?  

    They're not all huge rallies (none / 0) (#22)
    by dianem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 06:00:24 AM EST
    I saw another Obama event where they had somebody take pictures, and the organizer's had crowded the faithful into a small area near the press so they looked like a large crowd. It's a common technique for this kind of event organizer. It's all about numbers, or perception of numbers. I'm sure that Obama can still draw large crowds if he is at the right locations.

    saw one at a gas station, he was surrounded (none / 0) (#79)
    by thereyougo on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:24:19 PM EST
    by pumps and people filling their cars. No people around him. It seemed prophetic. We'll know tomorrow.

    we don't see him boasting about his millions from the little people. Guess it made him look elitist.

    What bad strategy and Clinton seems more in touch with working classes. Again she sets the focus of the campaign. Obama just follows along, me too.

    He's a leader in waiting....


    My Dignity (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by SamJohnson on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:14:48 AM EST
    Nope never lost my dignity. Didn't push other people out of my way with legal technicalities to "win" a new job either. I'm almost surprised he didn't say integrity at this point. This man is a problematic rookie. Not another one. Please! Vote Hillary.

    Who is going to cheer a guy painting a dismal (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by kimsaw on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:43:22 AM EST
    picture of the people he wants to lead.He speaks to them not of hope but how he views there lives- lesser than his own. He acts as if no one will be saved with out him. Figured out its not just Michelle who thinks he can save our souls, Obama  believes he is his own messiah. I'm not sure he's even ready to lead anything except maybe Pelosi and Dean to the exits.

    Have you accepted Obama as your personal savior? (5.00 / 4) (#24)
    by lambert on Mon May 05, 2008 at 06:01:53 AM EST
    Yes! Would you like to hear my testimony?

    [Rimshot. Laughter.]


    That (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:54:12 AM EST
    statement is pretty stupid. I've been unemployed and dignity was the least of my problems. The main concern was putting food on the table, keeping a roof over my head etc. Your self esteem takes a big hit if you've been unemployed for a while but I don't get the dignity thing.

    The reason you don't get it... (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by lambert on Mon May 05, 2008 at 06:03:50 AM EST
    ... is that Obama didn't communicate it to you.

    That's because he doesn't get it. Nothing has in his life has prepared him to.

    More boring bullet points about policy, please!


    He thinks in stereotypes (5.00 / 9) (#29)
    by esmense on Mon May 05, 2008 at 06:51:37 AM EST
    This is the problem revealed by his "typical" and "bitter" remarks, and now by this. Despite his rhetoric, he doesn't have much natural empathy or ability to see people as individuals rather than "types," and, it goes without saying, he isn't an egalitarian -- not by a long shot.  

    very good way to describe his dialog. (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by kimsaw on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:39:03 AM EST
    After (5.00 / 6) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:18:39 AM EST
    listening to more of the speech it comes off as a real snoozer. Obama has a laundry list of what's wrong then goes on to propose "coming together" as a solution. There's no there there.

    This statement does not surprise me. (5.00 / 5) (#36)
    by feet on earth on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:44:52 AM EST
    Why?  He has given himself the title of "Community Organizer" for the work he did with displaced workers in Chicago.  

    This type of work is normally done by NGOs and they call their staff "Community Workers".  Working with displaced workers is called "Labour Adjustment" and run initiatives where you assist workers who lost their jobs with job search and skills training or retooling.  

    I did this work for more that 30 years, with real social justice type of people.  Whenever someone came along and sow themselves as "Community Organizers" we kept an eye on them.

    You organize papers, or drawers, you do not organize people, you can only assist them to organize for themselves.

    You don't empower people, you can only help them in empowering themselves.  

    If what we learn working with displaced workers is that they lose their dignity he was blind and hard of hearing.  
    Most unemployed workers become distressed if they do not find work  in a relatively short period of time.  Loosing their dignity?  No, it is their dignity that make them pick themselves up and go look for work, even when distressed and depressed.

    Beside, what did he really learn by working as a "Community Organizer", befriend a slum-landlord? Yah, right.

    This is a tortured confusion. (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by Mark Woods on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:02:02 AM EST
    'Dignity' and 'one's self' are not binary opposites.  I've had my self and simultaneously lost my dignity:

    It happened when Reaganomics cancelled my job and my student aid in the 1980s and told me to beg in cheese lines.

    My true 'work' went on as I 'followed my bliss' to quote Joseph Campbell), but my career trajectory took a sharp downward turn as I clawed my way out of the sinking ship called post-industrial Ohio.

    They tried to steal my dignity when I stood outside a hospital while my gay partner was dying, being told I couldn't enter because I wasn't 'family'.  But I lied and said we were 'cousins' and I kept my bruised but undying dignity while I lost all respect for the state and religion.

    Obama should avoid lecturing weary people on woes he's never weathered, it comes across as condescending, at best.

    And he has turned my stomach since the Advocate interview, telling gays to 'wait' on marriage, so anything he has to say on economic suffering seems utterly surreal.

    I saw this in the "networking" ... (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Cassius Chaerea on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:16:25 AM EST
    and "career counseling" racket: inspiring speakers who try to "motivate", to "support", to "restore dignity", to "help people follow their bliss", but have no interest whatsoever in helping people by providing real jobs. One employer that is actually hiring is worth more than several hundred motivational speakers; but, if people get jobs, they stop coming to - and paying - the counselors and networking group facilitators.

    If Obama continues this rhetoric and doesn't follow through with real solutions if he is elected he will have people hating him by mid next year.

    Lose dignity? (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Molly Pitcher on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:37:42 AM EST
    That is how conservatives, and, yes, some 'social workers' behave to the jobless.  Dignity does not depend on having a job; it comes with being human.  My Downs daughter got into trouble at a workshop long ago; she was not 'grateful' enough to the staff.  We found another place (where she's been for nearly 30 years).  And maybe they go overboard on the dignity thing, calling their clients 'consumers.'  But she's happy.

    The welfare system does a pretty good job of taking away dignity sometimes.  Their applicants become numbers in line, and there may be a tone of contempt.  But it is not right!  Treat people as if they are deserving of respect (that is what dignity means), and they respond by respecting others.

    (I know there exist people who seems to embody the worst of human traits, but I don't think they are found in the usual ranks of the jobless.)

    I don't get this one (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Steve M on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:44:43 AM EST
    The video doesn't strike me as offensive.  My wife, who is a hardcore Clinton supporter, didn't get it either.

    Of course some people don't lose their dignity when they lose their job.  Some people also don't lose their health care or their ability to support a family, which are other things he mentioned.  I'm not saying people are looking for reasons to take offense, but I think W.O.R.M. is pretty evident in this case.

    it's surprising though, isn't it (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by diplomatic on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:01:41 AM EST
    This statement from Obama seems to have struck a chord with many people in a bad way.  At first it doesn't sound so bad, but if you think about it, it can become troubling.

    I take it you aren't working class... (none / 0) (#52)
    by p lukasiak on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:00:10 AM EST
    the problem is that there is a key difference between tangibles like "health care" and intangibles like "dignity".  

    People don't lose their dignity with the loss of a job.  Obama doesn't get that -- he's read in some sociology text that people "lose their dignity" when they lose their jobs, but he doesn't understand what he's saying.  People who lose their jobs wind up being treated without respect in places like unemployment and welfare offices.... but they don't lose their own dignity.


    He sounds like (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:47:20 AM EST
    the Debbie Downer version of the motivational speaker.

    "When you lose your job, you lose your dignity!"

    Wuh-wuh-whaaaaaaa (have to watch SNL to know what this sounds like).

    how would like to live in a vaaaaaaaaan (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by diplomatic on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:02:42 AM EST
    down by the river?!!!!  Well that's exactly where you're going to end up if you don't stop clinging to your van that happens to be parked down by the riveeeeeeer.

    maybe obama has diverticulitis..... :) (1.00 / 0) (#67)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:06:58 AM EST
    wendy whiner (none / 0) (#76)
    by jedimom on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:34:26 PM EST
    he also sounds like SNL wendy whiner

    we KNOW Obama has said:

    I dont wanna go to Floridddaaaaaa


    This is how Obama was trained - to agitate (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by ding7777 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:57:54 AM EST
    he's a master at "community agitation".

    Daily/weekly agitation might work to get people to form a food bank but its a bit heavy handed when asking the crowd for their vote.

    Bless his heart (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by cawaltz on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:03:35 AM EST
    His wording is awkward. A good job is a means to be self reliant and self reliance brings a certain pride with it. It sounds like he is trying to relate to the ol' pull yourself up by your bootstraps frame but is handling it awkwardly.The dignity isn't so much about the job as t is about affording to pay the bills without having to rely on the good will and generousity of others for needs and the means to survive. I do understand what he is saying but the way he is saying it makes you wonder how great an orator he is.

    Obama needs to consult with Gore - more! (5.00 / 4) (#58)
    by Fabian on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:09:26 AM EST
    Last night I saw Gore.  I am still pondering his presentation.

    But one thing Gore talks about is the "easy wrong" and the "hard right".  He also talked a little bit about real bipartisanship, because in order to fight the Climate Crisis(note: official meme change), we need everybody.  The Republicans, skeptics, Creationists, Democrats - everyone.  Multiple times, Gore resisted the temptation to attack Bush and Cheney(and probably the entire Beltway culture) - because even if 99% of that audience was convinced that Bush & Cheney were Evil Incarnate, it was wrong to dismiss the 1% who thought they were good, honest men.

    It's easy to over simplify, to tell people what their problem is instead of listening to the real, complex and often contradictory stories of real people and real problems.  You don't show people you understand them by telling them how they feel.  You show people that you want to understand them by letting them tell you how they feel.  Do not dismiss the people who do not understand you.  Instead, you should seek to understand them.  Even if you do not win them over, you youself will have gained from the experience.

    Otherwise it comes across as Father-knows-best authoritarianism, which may appeal to some people, but I find condescending.  

    Obama's off-script speeches are Bush-like (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by awang on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:49:07 PM EST
    Don't you ever get the feeling that Obama is very much "Bush-like"? Whenever he talks off-script, he says something stupid. How can we tolerate someone like that in the white house for 4 more years?

    RE: (none / 0) (#2)
    by az on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:02:09 AM EST
    I don't see anything wrong in what he said.

    They don't lose their dignity! (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by andrys on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:13:13 AM EST
    The are in danger of losing it if people around them act as if they should lose their dignity.  Most people look for another job.  If they can't find one they may lose hope, but many do NOT lose their 'dignity.'

      It's never fun to lose a job that you want to keep, but what he said was much too far-reaching.  He has these stock thoughts he throws out to try to show he has 'empathy' when what he does is intellectualize and too often overcategorize in simplistic fashion.


    Do you even know what dignity is? (none / 0) (#83)
    by halstoon on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:14:36 PM EST
    Maybe you should look it up, b/c when people are depressed and feel like their gov't would rather have people employed in Mexico, it affects your dignity.

    When you feel beat down and broken and like the gov't doesn't give a crap, it affects your dignity.  


    *ditto* (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by Rainsong on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:42:56 AM EST
    Nothing wrong - just boring, and again -
    I wasted time trying to find something he plans to  -do-.

    I get tired of him just re-stating the problems. He does not offer any solutions.

    Right at the end of this clip, he does pitch to them a line saying we will be united in the fall. Good. About time.

    Then he also does the reasonable thing in then saying that while there is a lot of overlap, there are some differences between him and Hillary, and people should check it out before they vote on Tuesday.  

    Thats fine too - and perhaps the clip was cut too early - but what are the chances he then says 'Go to my website'?


    Dignity is inherent (none / 0) (#19)
    by dianem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:54:53 AM EST
    It's based on your own behavior, independent of your financial situation, your work, or your family situation. It doesn't come and go because somebody else did something to you. There is some truth in what Obama says up until the point where he says that. When people lose their jobs they sometimes become depressed and feel that they've lost strength. But it would have been kinder, and more accurate, to say "...But when people lose their jobs they do not lose their dignity".  That would have been an applause line.

    My general impression is that his speech was depressing. Where is the hope? I expected the list of bad things to be followed by a "And this is what I'm going to do to help you", but it wasn't. Just a generic "we are all races working together" and "McCain is evil".


    Obama (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by misspeach2008 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:04:01 AM EST
    has caught Jimmy Carter's "malaise".  A trouncing at the polls cured Jimmy.

    When you worry about seeking out applause (none / 0) (#84)
    by halstoon on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:16:34 PM EST
    over being honest with folks, then you're just another politician.

    But yes, it would have been better pandering to insist that no American has lost their dignity as cities crumble in the wake of massive layoffs and factory closings.


    his views on losing a job (none / 0) (#35)
    by ramasan on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:31:50 AM EST
    go hand in hand with his stated views of the people of rural Iowa, that  they're less 'ingrown' (here he seems to have self editedand from 'inbred') more well educated than he expected. Iowa???  I thought he lived in Kansas as a child.  Obviously not long enough to realize that the Mid West has schools, newspapers, TV and people with thoughts, curiosity and ideas.  It is sad, really that he
    knows so little about this diverse nation of oours.

    Obama is correct (none / 0) (#4)
    by piniella on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:05:20 AM EST
    As Joseph Conrad put it, "In work you find yourself"

    disagree (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by jedimom on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:37:38 PM EST
    in a Cpitalist system talking tot eh working cvlass who is following a paychek not their bliss
    he is totally wrong IMHO

    totally totally wrong

    Dignity is raising a family and taking pride in doing what it takes to care for that family

    dignity is self worth and hear and faith and belief and is not lost due to a buck and a factory job lost
    not working class generations
    we have a lot more spine than what Barack gives credit for

    he seems to think its all about our inability to vote our econ interests in his mind
    he doesnt 'get' the Dem base
    and he cant 'get' the Dem base in a GE either


    "Bliss" isn't the issue (none / 0) (#87)
    by piniella on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:42:03 PM EST
    The issue is facing the external world and finding a place in it.  If you lose that place, you lose some of your dignity.

    Not in work tha tyou do for money (none / 0) (#7)
    by andrys on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:15:43 AM EST
    You find money to help you 'live'...

      In work you find survival.  In work you LOVE, you find yourself, but unfortunately, most people do not do work they love.  To say anything else is to romanticize rather than deal with reality of human beings "working for a 'living' "...

      In retirement I have found myself, actually.  I liked some of the work I did and loved for awhile some of it, but I find my(better)self in so many other ways, thanks.


    I doubt Joe never saw (none / 0) (#12)
    by Edgar08 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:52:00 AM EST
    "Joe vs. the Volcano".  Lighterhearted fare to be sure.

    I agree (none / 0) (#21)
    by dianem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:58:12 AM EST
    But losing a job in today's day and age does not deprive a person of dignity. It is often because of factors totally beyond their control. Jobs being consolidated, older employees replaced by younger (and lower paid) ones, businesses being bought up by other businesses because it will increase profit. Jobs moving to other places, even other nations. In work you find yourself is a good line, but I don't think that Conrad meant that when you lose your job you lose yourself. That does not follow logically from his statement.

    That depends on the job (none / 0) (#49)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:48:34 AM EST
    Many, many people work in jobs where there's no way of "finding yourself".

    I disagree with Conrad... (none / 0) (#80)
    by kdog on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:40:17 PM EST
    I find myself in my leisure time, work is a means to an end...the end being leisure time to find myself.

    Poor word choice by Obama...I never lost my dignity when I've been out of work, but my pride did take a beating.


    Here's the full quote (none / 0) (#88)
    by piniella on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:23:43 PM EST
    From "Heart of Darkness," page 99:

    Spoken by the narrator, Marlow:

    "I don't like work, no one does, but I like what is in the work, the chance to find yourself."


    I can understand what he's trying to say... (none / 0) (#8)
    by reynwrap582 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:18:11 AM EST
    This is, afterall, Barack Obama, who has barely taken a breath during his ascent to the top. His 'job' is all that seems to matter.

    Cue another round of W.O.R.M. (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by lambert on Mon May 05, 2008 at 06:00:35 AM EST
    I understand why he's saying it.

    Axelrod's figured out that he can't write these votes off and make the numbers -- which isn't what he thought before.  So Obama's slipping, and he's trying to reach out beyond his too-narrow base.


    The problem (5.00 / 5) (#26)
    by kenoshaMarge on Mon May 05, 2008 at 06:31:14 AM EST
    with reaching out to people that you don't understand is that you say things that they find either irrelevant, insulting or dumb. None of which makes them want to vote for you.

    Obama, as many of his most fervent supporters, don't seem to understand the working class and their struggle to keep afloat in this country. One illness, one downsized company in their town and what they face isn't loss of dignity, it's loss of food on the table and roof over the head.


    Maslow's hierarchy (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by lambert on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:11:23 AM EST
    Surprise! Food and shelter are important to people!

    Of course, if they have health problems, they can always go to the emergency room.


    waffle waffle waffle waffle mushroom mushroom (none / 0) (#13)
    by boredmpa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:56:07 AM EST
    can he pick a perspective and stick to it, or at least not sound like a elitist know-it-all?

    Last month it was that people only cling to church/guns/anti-immigrant stuff when they've been let down by the gov't and are distrustful the jobs will be available or they'll have a decent life.

    This week he says when you lose your job you lose your sense of self, community, and dignity.

    I honestly don't care which way he thinks it is, I'd just like him to make up his mind, craft a message, and deliver it in a way that doesn't insult my underemployed self.  

    and to finish my Subject reference: eek a snake.

    The (none / 0) (#39)
    by sas on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:07:28 AM EST
    more he speaks, the worse it gets.

    You might delete me on this....but what a dork.

    When the gov't allows a company (none / 0) (#61)
    by halstoon on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:04:37 AM EST
    to ship your job overseas and gives them a tax credit on top of it, you do lose some dignity. Dignity means having a sense of being worthy of respect. When the gov't allows companies to abandon a community, leaving people without jobs, healthcare, or even real opportunity, it's pretty hard to think the gov't sees you as worthy of their respect. The company gets their respect; they even get a tax break. The workers in Mexico or India or wherever get their respect; Washington goes out of its way to make sure those people have jobs.

    So yes, when these things happen, it does effect your dignity. You don't think Washington cares, and once depression sets in (from not being able to take care of your family), your dignity starts to fade real fast.

    That's not elite. It's honest. If I'm in Indiana, I'm thinking, 'Here's somebody who's going to help me get some of that dignity back. He cares."

    One thing my kids learned real well: (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Molly Pitcher on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:32:17 AM EST
    all humanity is worthy of respect and should be able to keep an innate sense of dignity despite economic circumstances.  Their sister is severely retarded, but she is not about to let someone trample on her.  When her brother was worrying about being out of work (his choice), I reminded him that his sister's value is not based on earnings, and neither is his.

    And we know Washington does not much care about the jobless, but we continue to treat all people--including  those in the soup line--with respect.  Your dignity depends basically on how you  value yourself, not on externals.


    No, No Problem At All (none / 0) (#62)
    by flashman on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:19:51 AM EST
    I've lost jobs, and its tough.  For many, there is a feeling of hopelessness when you can't pay your bills or take care of your family the way you want.  He is right, and BTW, he said sense of dignity.  He talking about personal feelings and how one views himslef/herself.  I agree.

    I work in the temporary staffing (none / 0) (#63)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:45:30 AM EST
    industry.  We sadly had to lay off some workers from a large client that had lost a large piece of business last week.

    I can tell you as I hugged my field staff, one thing they DID have was their dignity.  Of course there were tears and major disappointment, but we promised to help them find new jobs and they said they would do whatever they needed to do to stay working.

    Obama infuriates me when he says these RIDICULOUS things.  I've been in staffing for twelve years and a lot of these folk bounce back when an opportunity is removed.  It's a hit to the pocketbook BUT not to their spirits.

    Please Hillary, KNOCK it out of the park tomorrow so we can dismiss the amateur once and for all!

    Watch the crowd in the video: They seem to be (none / 0) (#65)
    by jawbone on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:52:21 AM EST
    talking among themselves, turning aroung, moving around a bit.

    This is not the same adoring crowd reaction featured in the early transcendency rallies.

    These people do not seem to have seen the light.

    Watch and what do you notice?

    My republican dog-walking buddies (none / 0) (#68)
    by Molly Pitcher on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:19:44 AM EST
    are following the primary news.  They do not like Wright, and then one said this: Obama's foot is getting smaller and smaller as he chews it off.

    Occurs to me maybe jobs and dignity are the reason Obama seems so dismissive of women.  Some of us do not work outside the home, and many of us have low-paying, low-info jobs.  So why give us any respect?

    One of the reasons... (none / 0) (#69)
    by JustJennifer on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:25:19 AM EST
    I find Obama so off putting is comments like this.  Both he and his wife sure like to talk about how we are all so broken, we are cynics and sloths, we are bitter.. etc..   I don't for one second believe that a. the majority of Americans are any of these things and b. either one of them is on a reality based trip.

    if he's so worried about working people, maybe (none / 0) (#70)
    by thereyougo on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:27:43 AM EST
    he should explain to workers losing their jobs why he would ease up on regulations that would help working families,

    from the WSJ today:

    Sen. Barack Obama won the endorsement of the Teamsters earlier this year after privately telling the union he supported ending the strict federal oversight imposed to root out corruption, according to officials from the union and the Obama campaign.

    It's an unusual stance for a presidential candidate. Policy makers have largely treated monitoring of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters as a legal matter left to the Justice Department since an independent review board was set up in 1992 to eliminate mob influence in the union.

    I think when you join the OFB you lose (none / 0) (#71)
    by MarkL on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:28:05 AM EST
    all your dignity and self-respect. It's a terrible thing to watch.

    Even aside from the dignity (none / 0) (#85)
    by mg7505 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:57:05 PM EST
    comment, he straight up doesn't sound even remotely inspirational anymore; it's actually painful to watch him try and get an audience reaction.

    Too bad the MSM won't slam him for Dignitygate or PingPonggate given they've attacked Hillary for much less. The love affair with Obama continues.