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Late Night: The Heat is On

Thanks to all who contributed to our TL Appreciation Days. We've had a great response and we thank every one of you. We'll bump it a few times until early afternoon tomorrow and then it will fade into the archives.

Here's an open thread for you. What haven't we covered? What more do you have to say?

< A Classic In The Double Standard Genre | AP-Ipsos National Poll: Hillary Ahead by 7 >
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    So, I asked this on another thread (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Kathy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:03:15 PM EST
    but I'll ask here again: does anyone know the percentage representation of ages of aa dems in NC?

    Because there's two things I'm noodling on:  1.  Bill Clinton is still loved, and older aa's haven't forgotten what the Clintons did for them--and the voting booth is private.  2.  Maya Angelou has been working her butt off (no kidding; she actually looks thinner) for them in NC.

    I think both these points are big factors.  I think the aa vote will be depressed, and show a few percentage surprises that the polls aren't predicting because people lie to pollsters.

    Further, I think more people are going to vote from the rural counties.  Since these people usually don't vote until the primaries, I think that the polls are leaving them out of the equation.

    I think the AA vote is changing (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:06:37 PM EST
    you are right.  Something is up.  

    Parent
    Stellaaa (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Kathy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:11:22 PM EST
    I agree with your agreeing with me.  Something is going on.  Obama was closed-door strategizing today, probably calling his Big Donors and spinning down his losses.  I guarantee you he shored up his SD list and reached out to anybody who would answer the phone.

    Others may scoff, but you and I just keep putting the "wise" in counter-clockwise.

    Parent

    I can tell Kathy is nervous ! (none / 0) (#74)
    by thereyougo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:51:02 AM EST
    she's starting to write like she talks ! ;-)

    Parent
    So you think Hillary might win NC? (none / 0) (#17)
    by MarkL on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:16:44 PM EST
    KUSA had Clinton by 4-5% (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Kathy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:35:23 PM EST
    earlier today.  Laziness prevented further sampling, so I am sticking by that, as well as my prediction of calls for recounts and chaos.

    Here are my tabs:

    I think that Bill Clinton has been stealth campaigning, energizing a new bloc of rural voters who have not really turned out for primary votes in a while and therefore have been undersampled by all pollsters.  I believe those undersampled rural voters are the reason HRC took PA by several more points than predicted, and that the groundswell will continue not just in NC, but in PA.

    I think that an older aa population has been appealed to by WJC, whom they recall as a true advocate, and Maya Angelou has given them permission to vote HRC, and that these two factors, combined with the contretempts over Wright, will depress aa turn-out.

    I also think there will be an Angelou Effect among a particular sect of latte dems, mostly women, who worship her.  Plus, racist Rev. Wright cancels out the specious "Racist Bill Clinton" crap.

    Further, in NC, we have a strong well-educated, Christian faction offended by Wright, a strong patriotic and military faction offended by Wright and Ayers (and encouraged by endorsements like that of hometown boy Gen. Hugh Shelton) and a large, working class faction offended by bittergate.  Also, and this has gone under the radar, I think a lot of impoverished whites resented Obama's comment during the debate that his children would get into good schools, but that we still needed affirmative action to help poor white kids.

    Lastly, perception, perception, perception.  Obama no longer looks like the winner.  With his light not shining as brightly, Clinton looks pretty dang good herself.  She took on Fox, she took on Schaife, she took on the freaking world.  The narrative of "she'll do anything to win" has been successfully turned into "she'll do anything to win...for you."  She's brought folks back into the democratic stable.  She's reminded them of why they were dems in the first place.  She's also looked so strong lately as contrasted with Obama's perceived weakness that folks are starting to think that we need a seasoned pro to take on McCain.

    Last of the lastly: I cannot say enough how important it is that Clinton makes it seem like we are all in this together, and we are going to ignite the American spirit and be a strong America again.  Obama wants to lecture us and tell us what's best for us.  Clinton wants to stand beside us and fight for American values.

    Pride is a huge motivating factor.

    Parent

    Hail Hail KUSA!!! (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by RalphB on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:00:37 PM EST
    laziness prevented further sampling? (none / 0) (#31)
    by white n az on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:44:04 PM EST
    tell everybody the truth...you spent the afternoon ironing my shirts.

    Curiously, the early voting according to SUSA seems to have Obama voters (elites mail in their votes?) and thus I would suspect that the late breaking votes will be predominantly Hillary but SUSA only showed 2% undecided...Obama + 4%

    Parent

    Fantasy (none / 0) (#34)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:46:48 PM EST
    I had this fantasy yesterday, that you Kathy, or Oculus, are really Hillary, and you come here and toy with us.  

    Hillary, can you give that Lanny guy a big hug for me and tell him I love those Mafia guy suits he wears.  

    Parent

    I am hugging him right now (none / 0) (#41)
    by Kathy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:59:31 PM EST
    but, you think I'm her?  How flattering (though slightly odd to be the subject of fantasy.  Please tell me I wasn't naked. Or that I was and I looked really hot.  And young.)

    Early voting: people lie.  Who the hell knows who they voted for?  I don't set much cotton by that statistic.

    And, actually, I don't iron shirts, but I do make phone calls, and I've laid on my super sweet, talkin' to my granny, southern accent and country manners pretty thick all week while I've been talking to folks in NC about how much I love Clinton and how we need to get behind our girl...

    Let's just say that folks have been receptive.

    Parent

    No...total political nerd fantasy. (none / 0) (#46)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:06:29 PM EST
    I will not call cause my name is strange and I have an accent.  Don't like to freak voters out. But I give money.  

    Parent
    Your name is strange? (none / 0) (#51)
    by Kathy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:29:01 PM EST
    Lie, dangit!  How many times have you called tech support and been told "My name is Jane" by a woman with a heavy Indian accent?

    Dahlia Sweet.  That'd be a good name for you.  The accent would be hard; typical no accent CA accent.  Maybe watch some Steel Magnolias?  Haha!

    Parent

    It is strange (none / 0) (#56)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:36:19 PM EST
    I used to work for a consulting firm and we were doing some work for the State of Washington.  And people had to call the firm and ask for me to do some major financial affordable housing stuff back in the 90s'.  Some guy calls the firm and says: "Is...&%## there? Dang, don't you people have any Muricans working there? I don't even want the subsidy to save my project, get me an Murican"

    Parent
    Kathy, thanks for the eloquent, (none / 0) (#48)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:17:06 PM EST
    thoughtful analysis of the current/future state of the Clinton campaign. As usual, your prose is uplifting and a joy to read. FWIW: I'm in full agreement on every point.

    Parent
    This is my feeling in NC too (none / 0) (#58)
    by angie on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:44:31 PM EST
    Although I've been afraid to say it out loud lest I jinx it. I've only lived in NC for two and a half years, but you have hit everything I've been feeling about the tide turning here in your thread perfectly --  especially the covert AA vote for Hillary & the rural vote. There was a great story in WaPo about Bill in the small town today, and if I could follow the directions, I would link it.  I've been calling for Hillary too (and covering up my NOLA accent with a sweet drawl) and have gotten some very positive vibes for our gal.  I'm praying you are right -- I've burned through a bottle of oil with my candle this last week alone!

    Parent
    haha...well... (none / 0) (#59)
    by Kathy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:49:05 PM EST
    I called WA for Clinton, so take it with a grain of salt (actually, come to think of it, the primary agreed with me a heck of a lot more; still, it must be said that KUSA took a hit)

    I really do feel that the tide is turning.  But, we can't sit back.  Keep calling.  Keep donating.  Keep pushing.  Keep supporting our girl.

    To paraphrase another great fighter, "Tomorrow is not just another day!"

    Parent

    I don't (none / 0) (#21)
    by Jeralyn on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:24:52 PM EST
    But single digits would be a big coup.

    Parent
    almost impossible... (none / 0) (#23)
    by white n az on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:28:14 PM EST
    to overcome a 30%+ head start but it's clear that his numbers with white voters are in deep decline where SUSA has them between 30 and 32% and either way, those kind of numbers spell doom and give Hillary a real argument with SD's

    Parent
    Morning Joe (none / 0) (#22)
    by bjorn on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:28:09 PM EST
    predicted today that Clinton will win NC and IN.  I hope he is right, but my gut says she loses NC but it will be close.

    Parent
    I agree... (none / 0) (#75)
    by stefystef on Tue May 06, 2008 at 06:09:03 AM EST
    As I've said on many posts here, my family is from NC.  They are voting for Hillary and many other African-Americans are voting for Hillary.

    I agree with you that the voting booth is private and while people say one thing in front of friends and church members, when the curtain is closed, people vote their gut.  

    I see Hillary getting close to 20% of the AA vote in NC and a very large percent (70%) in the rural areas that Bill has been campaigning heavily.

    A change is a-comin'.

    Parent

    my take is (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:04:04 PM EST
    MSM figuring out Hillary will win, so they are pushing Obama.  Obama is better for the demographic in the ratings.  

    Larry King - the CNN Condor (5.00 / 0) (#16)
    by Cate on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:16:17 PM EST
    OMG!! I can't believe any of these Obama Supporters he dragged in there are people that I thought belonged to MY SIDE!!! Who ARE these people???!!!! Rude, lying, overbearing bullys!! This Katrina person and Ed somebody...and some female District Attorney with her 'bottom-up' crap about Obama who COULD NOT SHUT UP! And, King did nothing to stop the Clinton bashing.

    I don't know about 'sad eyes' but the CNN push tonight is so pro-Obama - some of you say you think the AA's are having second thoughts? Is that because Obama no longer supports Wright's views or because he supported them in the first place?

    I forget her name... (4.00 / 1) (#26)
    by white n az on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:33:03 PM EST
    and her recycling talking points was a bit disappointing but she is very attractive and obviously intelligent and I wouldn't mind looking at her some more.

    Katrina is ruining her brand (the Nation), just like Kos and WKJM and I'm sort of sorry and wonder what they are gonna do after tomorrow's surprise.

    Ed Schultz is just a bad excuse and I'm still not convinced that he's a Democrat.

    Parent

    I supported Kamila (3.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:49:08 PM EST
    she is the DA in SF. This is irony, the son of the DA of SF, Arlo Smith, is running Hillary's campaign in NC.  

    Parent
    I don't blame you for supporter her... (none / 0) (#72)
    by white n az on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:29:30 AM EST
    I really liked her and will could see forgiving her for supporting Obama AFTER the nominee is chosen

    Parent
    Since this is an open thread (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by ChrisO on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:57:18 PM EST
    I've been waiting to talk about this. I read recently that Obama has been talking with his advisors about a short list for VP candidates, and he rejected those who will mostly provide foreign affairs cred, because he thinks that's his strength. Can you imagine? I don't know what he's done to make him think anyone sees him as a foreign policy expert. I really think he believes he can dine out on that speech in the park for the rest of his career.

    I would like to see (none / 0) (#52)
    by waldenpond on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:30:02 PM EST
    that article.  Foreign policy as his strength.  I would like to say I find it disappointing but I laughed.  I would like to say, I then felt bad that I laughed but we know it isn't true.  I want to know what the advisors expressions were. Ha!

    If you find it, share it.

    Parent

    Darn itI (none / 0) (#62)
    by ChrisO on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:07:21 PM EST
    I knew somebody would make me provide a source. I Googled it and came up with this Mayhill Fowler piece. I'm not sure that's where I read it, but it seems to be referencing the same quote I read. And it also seems to be from the same day as Obama's famous San Francisco talk, although not necessarily at the same event.

    here

    Here's the money quote "...foreign policy is the area where I am probably most confident that I know more and understand the world better than Senator Clinton or Senator McCain."

    Parent

    Someone On A Thread Yesterday Said Obama (none / 0) (#71)
    by MO Blue on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:05:15 AM EST
    had Richardson, Casey and Bloomberg on his short list. Don't know how accurate this is but I do know my reaction to two of the names on this list. Casey and Bloomberg would definitely mean I stayed home in November. Casey is anti-abortion, anti-stem cell etc. I  already have doubts about what type of people Obama would appoint to SCOTUS and Casey would solidify my opinion that Obama doesn't give a rat's a$$ about women and their issues.

    Bloomberg IMO would mean that Obama has turned the Democratic Party into the Unity08 party. I have absolutely no loyalty to that party. A party with a VP who was a Dem before he became a Republican before he became and Indie and the possibility of Republicans at Defense and State is not one that will get my vote.

    Parent

    Mike Malloy, HRC and Eight Belles (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by nellre on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:02:35 PM EST
    Listened briefly to Mike Malloy on Air America tonight.
    He was comparing Hillary to Eight Belles, the filly who came in second in the Kentucky Derby but broke both ankles in the process, and had to be euthanized on the track. Tragic. Heart rending... and Malloy thought it was funny.
    It was the most sickening comparison I have ever heard in my life.
    It seems some of the Obama followers (not most by any means) are a lot like Rove.

    Also I won't be watching any more horse races. They killed a fantastic athlete... and for what?

    Mike Malloy... (none / 0) (#73)
    by white n az on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:31:20 AM EST
    was over the top before the race for the nomination became so divisive. Does he actually have an audience?

    Parent
    Mike Malloy (none / 0) (#76)
    by stefystef on Tue May 06, 2008 at 06:22:34 AM EST
    is a disturbed person sometimes.  I listen on occasion on Sirius, but I have to turn it off when he starts ranting.

    I am not surprised he said something as rude and cruel as using the death of a horse to compare Hillary's campaign.

    Malloy is a cruel man, hiding behind so-called progressive liberalism.

    Parent

    As an official TL geek (5.00 / 4) (#54)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:32:17 PM EST
    I have to say that i LOVE open threads!

    Today I was at the market getting a few things for dinner and lunch this week.  Two young people (I would guess 20 yr old tops), were petitioning for dry areas in the Metroplex to allow liquor sales.  As a proud HRC supporter, I had on my America con Hillary button.  The young woman sitting there praised my button and admitted she was an HRC supporter as well, and asked if I had another button.  (I carry extra buttons and stickers for just such an occasion)As I was signing the petition, we were confronted by a self-professed "Obama delegate".  She started quizzing the young couple as to why they like Hillary Clinton.  The young lady said that she felt that HRC wielded a certain amount of influence in some of the decisions made during Clinton 42's administration.  The Obama supporter went on to say that Hillary had to help run the country because Bill was too busy messing around.  She then turned to me and said "Yeah I see your Hillary button in Spanish but I don't care."  "The Clintons are pigs."  I didn't respond.  She goaded me again by calling them names referring to their ethnicity.  I told her I wasn't going to engage in her Republican talking points.  AND that she couldn't discuss issues but rather try to engage in character assasinations.

    The young couple were pretty offended because, well, they were white as well.  A passer-by in the market heard her comment and asked her, "why is it okay for you to say what you said about Hillary but if we said the n word about Obama we would be attacked and called racists?"  She then said we were all racists.

    I think that if Obama and his supporters feel that this type of rhetoric will help him in the fall if he wins the nom he is in deep doo-doo.

    That Obama supporter was venomous and didn't care who she offended.  After I passed out some bumper stickers and buttons, she flipped me off and the young petitioners as well.

    I have been dying to post this episode since it happened earlier today.  This hostility is nuts.

    If they are like this when they are winning (5.00 / 0) (#57)
    by Marvin42 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:38:47 PM EST
    g-d help us if they lose the nomination! Yikes!

    Parent
    Heard Jaime Gonzalez announced (5.00 / 0) (#60)
    by RalphB on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:52:20 PM EST
    his Super D support for Hillary this afternoon in TX.  Hope that makes you feel a little better about the rude Obamadroid.


    Parent
    That is AWESOME (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:18:41 PM EST
    news!!  I make it a POINT to send a letter to any Super D who supports Hillary Clinton.

    I think that whether or not they are my elected official, (or a party operative), I like to reinforce their decision of backing Hillary.

    I know it's just a letter but I think it means a lot (and would mean a lot) if we all did something like this.

    Corny but I already have a form letter saved on my desktop.  All I do is sub the name and put it in the mail.  

    I actually got a letter back from Sheila Jackson Lee's office regarding my letter of support.

    Parent

    Thank you! (5.00 / 0) (#68)
    by Cate on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:31:15 PM EST
    We should all do the same!

    Parent
    She gained at least two super-d's today (none / 0) (#63)
    by Cream City on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:09:51 PM EST
    from what I see on the realclearpolitics.com tally -- she's up to 1608.  Plus it now shows her pickup of two more pledged delegates in Pennsylvania, once it finally finished its complicated counts across a couple of congressional districts or counties or something.  And I read that Obama lost one in Guam that is now undeclared, as someone counted as winning has lost (I really don't get it all in Guam).

    Etc., etc.  Obama's campaign really publicizes the super-delegate pickups, Clinton's campaign either doesn't do so -- I would be interested in whether it's a deliberate decision to do stealth on it -- or, more likely, rarely get reported in media.

    And who knows what the counts really are -- no one knows, no one can know until all the re-caucusing and add-ons no one discussed, either -- but the margin really hasn't narrowed as much as some media seem to want to suggest, when they only report super-delegates for Obama.

    Parent

    I'm with you on this (5.00 / 0) (#67)
    by RalphB on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:21:09 PM EST
    the delegate process is such a mess.


    Parent
    It's time for misogyny (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by boredmpa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:38:48 PM EST
    I would love to see crosstabs on this data on hillary being dishonest about what she believes and saying what people want to hear

    Last I checked, HRC talked about policy directly and clearly (unless it involved foreign policy, i.e. Iran, but that's obviously rhetoric in context).  Obama talks about change, about we are the ones we've been waiting for and paints himself as an outsider and victim of attacks. He forgets when he heard negative preaching, when he was opposed to the war, and paints clinton as bad even when they hold the same position.

    So HOW, other than misogyny, is clinton viewed in such a negative manner vs Obama/McCain?  She has the clearest policies of the three and doesn't usually have to repeat/qualify what she says.

    And do NOT respond with "sniper gate" because this goes back long before the bosnia incident, and McCain had "marketgate," and Obama had the Busgates.

    First post (3.50 / 2) (#49)
    by Monda on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:22:59 PM EST
    I read TL everyday, first time writing.  Since it is an open thread, I figured I start here.  Love Jeralyn and BTD (althogh still can't figure out why he supports Obama, lol ... I know, I know, the media story.)  Anyway, didn't sleep much last night, not going to get much sleep tonight either, but still, hoping big for tomorrow for our girl.  

    PS: Not watching MSM tonight, so I'm glad some of you posted about the latest on-dits :).

    HRC on Letterman tonight (none / 0) (#61)
    by Cream City on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:03:42 PM EST
    looked tired, at long last -- I gotta start munching jalapeno peppers daily to get an nth of her energy -- but did great in her turn at the Top Ten.

    The topic, why she loves America.  My favorite reason was because, from anywhere in this great land of ours, she can order a pantsuit 24/7 on the Internet.  (And then she added, there's your pantsuit joke, Dave.)

    Parent

    Going out on a limb here (none / 0) (#1)
    by Marvin42 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:47:15 PM EST
    I have been looking at the faces of Sen Obama and his supporters on television. They all have a very defeated look in their eyes. If you watch carefully they smile, but if you just focus on their eyes they are very dispirited. Granted I am biased, but I don't think that's it. And it seems very serious. It looks like more than just losing another chance to put this away.

    So I wonder: what do they know that we don't?

    Curious.

    Exhaustion (none / 0) (#20)
    by bjorn on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:24:39 PM EST
    Scientists have determined that bad manners contributes to utter exhaustion, and the exhaustion turns into more bad manners, and so on!

    Parent
    Did anyone watch Larry King? (none / 0) (#2)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:47:19 PM EST
    The Obama supporters are rude online and on tv.  It's that simple, they are friggin bullies.  And when did the Nation become a shill for a democratic candidate?  

    I gave up (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Jeralyn on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:59:28 PM EST
    on CNN and MSNBC tonight, they were both so bad. I switched to Dancing With Stars.

    Parent
    I never watch... (none / 0) (#8)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:00:40 PM EST
    I think I will do the same...Jacque Pepin for me.  

    Parent
    He's great (none / 0) (#10)
    by andgarden on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:04:04 PM EST
    but does he actually do any cooking anymore?

    Parent
    Jacques (none / 0) (#37)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:51:50 PM EST
    is always on reruns.  I have a total crush on the guy, and I think I could have given him a much smarter daughter than the one he ended up with.  Watching him use the knife is just awesome.  He is the god of food.  All others are cheap imitations.  Lidia, Lidia is the Goddess.  That ample bosom and those platters of pasta.  She is Mario's auntie.  

    Parent
    MMMM, TV cooking (none / 0) (#39)
    by andgarden on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:55:09 PM EST
    and yes, his daughter did come off as a ditz.

    Parent
    I Changed to Dancin' As (none / 0) (#27)
    by zfran on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:35:14 PM EST
    well. But, when I switched back, everyone, every single one, was talking about Obama..how the media has been against him...IMAGINE, AGAINST HIM!!!...

    Parent
    I'm hoping HIllary wins NC. (none / 0) (#3)
    by MarkL on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:51:24 PM EST
    That would be a truly decisive victory.


    I want to know (none / 0) (#4)
    by kmblue on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:51:51 PM EST
    why Tucker Carlson is still on TV.

    He exaggerated his "I was solicited in a public bathroom by a gay man" story and was forced to retract it (kind of), he said Hillary's voice makes him want to cross his legs, and he lost his freakin' show that nobody watched, YET HE IS STILL APPEARING ON THE BROADCAST AIRWAVES.  

    Why, Lord, why?

    Finishing out his contract (none / 0) (#29)
    by Cream City on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:35:45 PM EST
    and it's all hands on deck for this primary season, especially if it continues into summer, when some people planned vacations before the Olympics, both party conventions, etc.

    He can always hold cue cards until his contract is out.

    Parent

    BTD's 'media darling'... (none / 0) (#5)
    by white n az on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:53:27 PM EST
    Obamamania Down the Drain - Lekking Post alert - click at your own risk

    For those who can't bear Lekking Post these days...the punchline

    Barack Obama received all the benefits of the Reality Gameshow style of coverage in January and February, when Hillary Rodham Clinton was the frontrunner and he was the obvious challenger to test her fitness for victory. In April he suffered the downside in spades--setting us all up for Tuesday's contests in North Carolina and Indiana.

    I wonder who will get thrown off the island.



    in case anyone is interested (none / 0) (#6)
    by miguelito on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:58:38 PM EST
    Daily Howler was particularly good today... I cannot figure out how these people have high profile journalism jobs

    What will he bring (none / 0) (#14)
    by Lahdee on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:14:17 PM EST
    to America?

    Will the Obama Doll of tomorrow be the action figure we bet the pony on today?

    What of the national sales day? Will his image sell solar panels, antigravity toilets, fleur de lis...?
    Will his shoes be enshrined or his teeth a model for children of all ages, "Daddy, Daddy I can't stop smiling!"

    Will there be a holiday? Can it be brought to you by your friends; "The Barack Obama Bowl sponsored by the Walmart Family of stores."?

    Can he move a lot full of cars?
    Can he sell it, sell it, sell it?

    hmm.. nervous about this (none / 0) (#15)
    by BostonIndependent on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:16:14 PM EST
    potentially bad news .. over on mydd, there seems to be a sentiment that pollsters are undersampling the AA vote and the early voter turnout indication could be beneficial to Senator Obama.

    What do people think about the breakdown posited in this link? (it postulates +12 for Obama by this methodology). Just curious,

    Going with SUSA is rarely wrong (none / 0) (#19)
    by andgarden on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:22:17 PM EST
    I think they got VA mostly right, and I think they're right about NC too. Keep in mind, however, that their results still allow for a double-digit Obama win.

    Parent
    yeah .. saw that over on another thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by BostonIndependent on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:28:33 PM EST
    I still don't quite understand the AA voters being this solid for a candidate like Obama -- O' well.

    What are you predicting, andgarden?

    Parent

    Two possibilities (none / 0) (#25)
    by andgarden on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:30:47 PM EST
    1. Demographics rule and Obama wins 55/45.

    2. Hillary is really closing and gets white indys to vote for her in large numbers: 47/53.

    Of course, any variation therof is possible, Obama might outperform, and Hillary might even win.  The polls are somewhat inconclusive, so we'll have to wait and see.


    Parent
    thanks.. (none / 0) (#32)
    by BostonIndependent on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:45:36 PM EST
    You say polls are somewhat inconclusive -- because they disagree with each other by margins using similar methodologies or because none of them strike  you as convincing or because of something else?

    Should be an interesting night tomorrow.

    Parent

    Mostly, I don't like that SUSA (none / 0) (#38)
    by andgarden on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:51:54 PM EST
    has Obama barely at 50%. That always suggests a tight race.

    Parent
    Psychological warfare. (none / 0) (#35)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:47:28 PM EST
    and I fell for it.. (none / 0) (#44)
    by BostonIndependent on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:02:46 PM EST
    Dang :)

    Parent
    I'm Watching Obama... (none / 0) (#18)
    by AlladinsLamp on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:20:53 PM EST
    live on C-Span.

    He tried to do a riff on party unity for the fall, but he just couldn't do it.

    It was ugly.

    The campaign (none / 0) (#30)
    by Tess on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:37:35 PM EST
    is obviously a grueling and an extremely tiring process. I'm not sure how either of them do it.  However, I was shocked at how visibly tired Obama looked today...more so than ever before IMO.

    Yet, Hillary looks more vibrant and energized by the moment.

    How does she do that? Whatever it is...I'll have what she's having!!!

    She looked tired on Letterman (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Cream City on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:13:30 PM EST
    at points tonight.  But she began with the glow and got it back in between.  I get weary just thinking about her schedule.  And Bill's -- did anyone else see his reaction when two women fainted at one of his stops?  And here we thought that only happened for Obama, ha ha.  (Interesting how reports of those incidents ended when questions were raised. . . .)

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    Well, she loves what she's doing, and (none / 0) (#33)
    by MarkL on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:46:46 PM EST
    she's learned how to use energy efficiently.
    Obama has never worked like this before---Hillary has been like this for decades, I imagine.

    Parent
    Politico Triggered 'Gun-mailer-gate' (none / 0) (#45)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:04:38 PM EST
    Today there was a great story at No Quarter: "Bingo - Malicious YouTube Hoaksters Exposed". It dealt with the recent hoax video about Mickey Kantor and another hideous new video that was just released by the same hoaksters. The new video is a particularly egregious response to a Clinton campaign mailer which addressed Obama's position(s) on the issue of guns.

    It appears that Politico played a  seminal role in setting off this whole latter unfortunate chain of events. It started when Ben Smith posted the gun mailer image on his blog: at 12:16pm, 5/04/08. That Politico headline was: "Clinton Mailing Attacks Obama on Guns". The pretext of Smith's post was to turn the critique around and suggest that Hillary, herself, was being 'hypocritical' as both a proponent of gun-control and the 2nd amendment.

    However, I suspect Smith's real intent was to incite the ensuing notion that 'Clinton is trying to get Obama killed'. Indeed, at 12:49pm someone named Maria obligingly posted the following response to Smith's piece:

    "Is anybody else disturbed by the image? It looks like a subliminal message to shoot him. Am I being paranoid? Why would they choose to design the ad that way?".

    That first comment then generated many more responses of this kind at Politico. By 4:30pm that afternoon, a video response to Politico's gun-mailer story was posted on YouTube: "Hillary Clinton is Trying to get Barack Obama Killed".

    Was there some degree of coordination between the people at Politico and the trolls who proliferated the subsequent video?

    Interesting too, that Smith posted yet another story on the gun mailer later that evening at 7:25pm. The title seemed fairly innocuous: "Clinton mailing's gun gaffe". This time the pretext was about the 'inauthenticity' and 'elitism' of the gun pictured in the original mailer. However, the post served to generate many more comments advancing the meme that Clinton was posing a threat to Obama's life.

    Question: How complicit was Politico and Ben Smith in the launch of gun-mailer-gate?

    Endnote: sweet Jesus, it's true, I do hate Politico.com.

    I loved the gun analysis (none / 0) (#53)
    by Kathy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:32:04 PM EST
    my years of Picture Pages helped me spot fairly quickly that the gun from the mailer had two triggers and the "non-left handed gun" they gave as an example only had one.

    What a bunch of tools.

    Parent

    That's what Ben Smith (none / 0) (#55)
    by waldenpond on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:33:20 PM EST
    does.  I left long ago after the comment section was taken over by the supporters of one candidate.  Haven't been there in weeks. I like RCP.

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    I don't think it's Politico (none / 0) (#65)
    by ChrisO on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:17:12 PM EST
    commenters at TPM had exactly the same response. Obama's picture is in one corner of the page, overlaid on top of a portion of a rifle. The barrel of the rifle runs off the page, sowe don't even see the whole thing. That didn't stop the idiots over there from squealing that "the gun is pointed at Obama."

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    Taylor Marsh (none / 0) (#77)
    by karen for Clinton on Tue May 06, 2008 at 06:47:39 AM EST
    Taylor has a great re-BUTTal on this issue on her site.  She has an expert in the family.

    Silly video youtube propaganda on Clinton wanting to commit murder is addressed there too.

    They go soooooo low and turn the world upside down, but not for long, there's a new day coming.

    Parent

    When did TPM post their thing? (none / 0) (#80)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:07:38 PM EST
    I believe just about every river of swill originates at Politico (note the time of their post).

    Parent
    Following Obama on Nghtline tonight (none / 0) (#47)
    by nycstray on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:14:30 PM EST
    Same as they did for Hillary I guess. I won't be watching (his ramped up attacks could cause a broken TV here) You can 'most likely' watch it and then flip to Dave to see the top 10, but I'll be doin' Dave all the way  ;)

    Aw.. McCain is being mean ! (none / 0) (#50)
    by MarkL on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:23:38 PM EST

    Senator Obama wants to sit down with an Iranian leader who is dedicated to wiping Israel off the map -- his words," McCain told reporters on his campaign bus. "I don't think we should give him that kind of prestige. Senator Obama obviously has no national security experience, and therefore that's reflected in his judgment on a number of those issues."

    So.. how will Obama deflect this? OH yeah.. it's just a "Republican talking point"! That will work SO well in the GE.

    This (none / 0) (#78)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:11:31 AM EST
    is a point that Obama supporters don't seem to get. McCain always wins the media narrative when it comes to Obama.

    Frankly, if Hillary gets the nomination, the attacks from Obama WILL help her in the general election.

    Obama was stupid to say that he was for unconditional talks.

    I'd rather have a candidate that can fight the media narrative than one who is dependent on it.

    Parent

    Tell Me Can You FEEL It ?! (none / 0) (#69)
    by Cate on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:36:31 PM EST
    Thanks Jeralyn for a great video to start tomorrow off!

    Looks like.... (none / 0) (#79)
    by kdog on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:37:30 AM EST
    the big brother-esque CCTV tyranny cameras all over London ain't doing much to prevent crime.  Link

    Makes you wonder what the real purpose of the cameras is...