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Hillary on Pledged Delegates and the Popular Vote

Hillary Clinton was on This Week with George Stephanopoulus this morning. I received a transcript from the show by e-mail. Here's what she had to say about pledged delegates and the popular vote.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Despite this record, Senator Obama getting more than 90 percent of the African-American vote. Perhaps that's to be expected. It's virtually impossible for you to overtake him now in the pledged delegates.

And a lot of people in the African-American community, including the third highest ranking member of the House, Jim Clyburn, say that, if you overturn the will of the pledged delegates, it is going to cause an irreparable breach with the African-American community. Isn't that a problem?

Hillary's answer is below:

CLINTON: Well, first of all, I think both Senator Obama and I have made it very clear that we will have a unified Democratic Party, going into the fall elections. I have said that I will work my heart out for him...

STEPHANOPOULOS: How is that possible...

CLINTON: Well, but...

STEPHANOPOULOS: ... if you overturn the will of the pledged delegates?

CLINTON: But George, I've said that I would work my heart out for him. He has said he would do the same for me. So we will unify.

There are a number of factors that people look at. We have delegates selected by millions of people in primaries and delegates selected by a few thousand people in caucuses. I'm ahead in the popular vote, if you include Florida and Michigan.

STEPHANOPOULOS: He wasn't on the ballot in Michigan.

CLINTON: Well, that was his choice. And his campaign and the other campaigns...

STEPHANOPOULOS: It was the rules of the DNC, though.

CLINTON: Well, but the rules said we shouldn't campaign. But there was nothing saying take your name off the ballot, and there was nothing saying that, eventually, we wouldn't give the voters, 2.3 million of them, in Florida and Michigan, 2.3 million of them, a chance to participate in the process.

The so-called automatic delegates -- they have to make up their minds based on who they think would be the best president and the best candidate to go up against John McCain. That is the process. So we're going to go through the next contest. And obviously, we're looking forward to Indiana and North Carolina. And then, when the process finishes in early June, people can look at all of the various factors and decide who would be the strongest candidate.

But I think there will be no doubt that, however this turns out, we're going to have a very strong campaign in the fall.

And I've often said that people who support me -- and they support me passionately -- and people who support Senator Obama and support him passionately -- they have much more in common than they do with Senator McCain and the Republicans.

< Obama Adviser: Obama Joined Wright's Church In Search Of His "Blackness" | Obama Camp's Past Predictions on Pledged Delegates, IN and NC >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Class act. n/t (5.00 / 10) (#1)
    by magisterludi on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:49:58 PM EST


    May I cling to my bitterness? (5.00 / 6) (#2)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:51:34 PM EST


    sure... (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by white n az on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:07:58 PM EST
    because by self-identifying as one of the 'bitter' and 'clinging' people you are clearly one of the working class that never votes for Democrats anyway.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm not letting go. (5.00 / 10) (#11)
    by dianem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:14:31 PM EST
    I never acknowledged that Bush was my President and I'm damn well not going to accept Obama as my candidate if he wins without Florida and Michigan being fairly counted. I think they're underestimating how angry a lot of women are. They recognize that black American's will stay home if they perceive the election to be unfair, but they're so used to women being "good girls" and going along with the party line that they don't think we will actually stand up for what we believe. They're wrong.

    [ Parent ]
    Seconded. (5.00 / 9) (#25)
    by Lady in Blue on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:38:56 PM EST
    I've said it before and I'll say it again: my vote is reserved for Hillary Clinton and ONLY Hillary Clinton in this election.  If she is not the nominee, I will write her in or I will not vote at all.  

    Even if she personally asked me, face-to-face, to support Obama, I would have to say no.  The treatment of her in this election has been too unfair, too hurtful for me, as a woman, to ignore.  I voted with my heart and my head for Hillary on Feb. 5.  My heart and my head are both telling me that even though I am aligned with Obama ideologically as a Democrat, I cannot and will not support him against McCain in November.

    I can only hope the Democratic elite will take notice of what will happen with not only blacks, but with women and working-class whites in general, depending on who they select as their nominee.  
     

    [ Parent ]

    Shocking. (1.00 / 10) (#45)
    by lilybart on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:14:08 PM EST
    If you can't see the danger of McCain as president through the veil of your tears over Hillary, then you should never vote again because you don't have the sense god gave a dog.

    [ Parent ]
    lilibark is barking (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by feet on earth on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:18:02 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Excuse me? (5.00 / 3) (#72)
    by angie on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:44:28 PM EST
    Let me explain something to you -- a McCain presidency is not "dangerous" to me -- actually, if I voted for my "self-interest" then I would always vote Republican -- because my income is in the tax bracket that gets the most "protection" when the GOP is in power.  My philosophy, however, is that a country should be judged not on how it treats its wealthiest members, but how it treats its poorest.  Additionally, I have voted Democrat my entire life because, as a woman, I believed (until this election) that the Democrats upheld women's rights.  I also believed (until this election) that the Democrats ensured that all people's votes counted. Two of my long held beliefs about the party have not been proven untrue -- so why should I be loyal to the party when the party has not been loyal to me? Why should give them my vote when the party is telling me they don't need my vote? Maybe, just maybe, I should start giving my vote to the party that wants it and respects it. Now, I'm not saying I will vote for McCain, but only I have the right to decide and I will not be bullied into giving my vote to anyone, especially not those who have continued to insult me during this primary process that if I don't vote the way they tell me to I "shouldn't be allowed to vote" & that I "don't have the sense god gave a dog."  So, don't preach to me about how "dangerous" a McCain presidency would be because, frankly, I'll be just fine if McCain is president. So, the Democratic party would do well to remember that.

    [ Parent ]
    You nailed my interests (5.00 / 5) (#108)
    by AnninCA on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:41:56 PM EST
    Angie.  Actually, I should be Republican if I vote pocket-book.

    And this year's aggression toward women has hurt my feelings.  

    In a real way.

    I'm not entirely sure I'm going to get over it, either.

    [ Parent ]

    can you cite examples? (none / 0) (#140)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:47:35 PM EST
    aggression toward women has hurt my feelings.

    I feel that is an unfair accusation (presumably at Obama?)... just want to know what you mean...

    [ Parent ]

    Mostly my feelings were hurt by his supporters (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by AnninCA on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:57:47 PM EST
    such as the pundits on TV who have just boxed her ears constantly.

    The unfairness of the standards.

    The ridiculous arguments that deny that this race is close.

    The "allowance" that he gets to attack her character since Texas non-stop, while still pretending that she's the one who is negative.

    But, if I'm truly honest, I'd have to admit that it's the blogger world.

    They were so mean.

    I know I'm the one who kept diving in, so I really shouldn't complain.

    But they were just so mean.

    I "broke."

    I now want nothing to do with anyone who supports him.

    My son keeps saying, "It's the internet."

    But there's a part of me that doesn't believe that.

    I don't want to be a part of the mean group in life.

    [ Parent ]

    You've got to be kidding. (5.00 / 2) (#169)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun May 04, 2008 at 08:06:34 PM EST
    If you actually believe that there's been no passive-aggressive hostility and misogyny haven't been directed at Hillary Clinton in particular and at women in general, then you're either willfully or ignorantly not paying attention.

    [ Parent ]
    And Obama will change that? (5.00 / 3) (#132)
    by dianem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:37:20 PM EST
    How? He can't even get bills passed on his own. The Democratic Party does not magically confer leadership skills on it's representatives. George Bush (I) was a better President than Jimmy Carter, even though Jimmy Carter had better political ideas and better character. We've lived so long with Bush and Rove that it seems impossible that a Republican President could be anything but a disaster, but McCain, however right wing he may be, is not Bush. He has earned a reputation as a moderate because of a long line of decisions, not just because of good PR.

    The biggest issue I have with the Republican Party is abortion, and I hate McCains stances, but I can't show you one way that the Democratic Party has successfully held back the right in terms of abortion rights in the last 10 years. Functionally, we are almost back to pre Roe v. Wade conditions, where women in progressive states can get abortions and women in conservative states have to travel to get one (if they can afford it). Obama certainly gives me no reason to believe that he will make women's rights a priority in his administration. I won't vote for McCain, but I'm not going to be blackmailed into voting for a candidate I don't trust, either. I never thought I'd say that. I've been a Democrat for as long as I can remember. But that's the way it is.

    [ Parent ]

    Women feel alienated (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by lizpolaris on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:24:25 AM EST
    by the Obama campaign and the Democratic party.  The level of misogyny displayed by all can scarcely be overstated.  Those of us who feel that way aren't likely to just join up with the denigrators.

    Just a few short years ago McCain was seen as a moderate.  He certainly still is among Republicans and I think among many Democrats as well.  While he may be hot tempered and buy into failed Republican economic policies too much, he's not the devil you're painting him to be.  For instance, it's a sure bet that US torture of prisoners would end the day after he took the oath of office.

    One thing he's got in common with Hillary Clinton is experience.  Sorry but Obama doesn't have it.  And if there's one thing I'm certain the country can't afford right now it's a bumbler in the White House, no matter how well intentioned.

    I'm with the previous poster - if Hillary's not the nominee, I'll be very tempted to not cast a presidential vote, write in Hillary, or even consider voting for McCain.

    Why would I vote for someone whose supporters insult me because I have tits, whose pastor insults me because of my color, and who personally insults my family because of our working class background?

    [ Parent ]

    that should read (none / 0) (#74)
    by angie on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:47:29 PM EST
    "Two of my long held beliefs about the Democratic party have now been proven untrue" -- not, "not."

    [ Parent ]
    No, actually I will not (none / 0) (#93)
    by angie on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:16:43 PM EST
    All my family & friends are in the same economic category as myself -- heck, all the men in my family vote GOP.  It is the women in my family (all of us with at least master's degrees) that vote Democrat for the same reasons I've listed for myself.  I know the GOP wants my vote because they have never told me, as the Democratic party has "that they don't need it."  If you all don't care about me (and you have shown me that you do not by saying if I don't vote the way you want me to, I "don't have the sense god gave a dog" -- I haven't seen you respond to that one) then I can stop caring about you. I'll feel bad, sure, but I will still be able to pay for my kid's college & I will still be able to fill my tank with gas. In fact, given that I do bankruptcy law my business will BOOM with McCain as president. So, yes, we "all" will not be fine, but I will.  And that is the bottom line that this primary has taught me -- that I should only care about myself because the DNC certainly does not care about me -- someone who has supported them financially, with volunteering and with voting.

    [ Parent ]
    Give it up, push pol (none / 0) (#115)
    by angie on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:49:03 PM EST
    I'm a "latte liberal" who hasn't been sold on Obama yet -- you certainly aren't going to sell him to me now. And again -- I'm not being blackmailed into voting for anyone -- if Obama gets the nomination without FL & MI participating fully, then I doubt very seriously he can get my vote.

    [ Parent ]
    You are right, I'm not (none / 0) (#156)
    by angie on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:54:35 PM EST
    a Democrat -- the same way Hillary isn't.

    [ Parent ]
    I've told DNC the same (none / 0) (#176)
    by andrys on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:45:48 AM EST
    All the tv news shows emphasize the groups that will leave if Obama loses.  Not one of them has the sense to explore, despite exit-polling which shows alarming results, what would happen if Florida and Michigan were not allowed to revote or be counted despite arbitrary and stupid rules by Dean and steadfast opposition of Obama fearing the votes affecting his numbers.

      The rules even provide for modifications in case of known reasons such as Republican legislatures deciding on the dates and refusing to allow date-changes to Feb 5, but Dean stands adamant because he and Pelosi know that without Florida and Michigan Obama will win.  Those are interior problems which cause Pelosi and him to HOPE for and ENCOURAGE a situation which will cause us to LOSE in Florida and Michigan in the fall.  

      Why would anyone care to be a part of such a ridiculous mindset of a party.  I've been a member since 1960, and I'm about to go Independent if Florida and Michigan are kept out or split 50-50 as is being proposed by cowards without principle.  And I've told DNC that and asked them to remove me from any more letters asking for money.  

      The superdelegates and reporters are missing something big and awful here - we are talking about about a 25% or more
    loss of the most loyal supporters and voters they've had who have voted the full ticket as a rule vs the new voters who were shown in Texas to have scant interest in the lower part of the ballot.

      They'll find out the hard way.  I have to vote FOR someone.  I won't be voting for McCain, but if the Dem party insists on operating as they have been, there's no way I will stay with it.

      I plan to stay with them long enough to vote for the lower ticket but many are planning not to do that.

      They've taken long-time party members who happen to be "not new" for granted and stupid acts by them will result in a fiasco in November.  They should study the voting trends more and pay attention IF they want to win.  Word has been, as stated on some analyses shows, that DNC people have said privately they know we'll be slaughtered in November but better that than alienating a bloc of voters and the new people coming in.  

      They really should use their brains a bit more and show us what IS important about what happens against McCain.  It's not an easy choice, but at least allow Florida and Michigan to be counted for all the reasons already given, or live with the results of true idiocy in disregard for the voters.

    [ Parent ]

    You still haven't answered the question (none / 0) (#157)
    by cmugirl on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:58:13 PM EST
    How will an Obama administration be different than a McCain administration?

    [ Parent ]
    women's rights? (none / 0) (#96)
    by lilybart on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:26:00 PM EST
    No one is saying that a woman should not be president, not any Obama supporter I know or have ever heard. and no one should have to vote for someone just because they share a gender or a race? This has nothing to do with gender issues.

    Far right courts are never good for women's rights, by the way, and that is what we get with McCain.

    [ Parent ]

    Don't pretend (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by angie on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:44:32 PM EST
    an attack on one woman is an attack on all women & the DNC has stood silently by while sexist attacks by the Obama camp and the msm have run rampant. Also, the "courts" argument doesn't scare me because guess what? I have the $ and the education not to have to worry about that. Don't you get it? You can't blackmail me into voting for anyone that I don't want to vote for. I am lucky enough to get to vote for whomever I want. And if Obama gets the nomination without FL & MI playing a meaningful role in the process, then the rest of you the Democratic party can kiss my support (financial and otherwise) good bye.

    [ Parent ]
    Nice of you to care about other people! (none / 0) (#148)
    by lilybart on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:19:49 PM EST
    So for you , the world is YOU? You don't care what conservative courts will do to women without means? To people caught in justice system abuses? to people harmed by corporations?

    Nope. it's all about you and you don't get your favorite candidate, then everyone else can just suffer because you are rich and don't care.

    Is that about it?

    [ Parent ]

    Can you read? (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by angie on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:04:56 PM EST
    I said quite clearly several times that I have voted against my own financial interest my entire life because I care about others. But, if the DNC gives Obama the nomination without allowing FL & MI to participate fully in the process, then the DNC is showing that they only care about themselves and not about me. Time and again, the arguments Obama & his supporters make as to why the nomination is "his" show me that the only thing they care about is themselves. So why is it up to me to care about others when everyone else seems to only care about themselves and not give two shakes about me? Sorry, I'm done being a sucker -- when people show me they don't care about me, I'm done caring about them.

    [ Parent ]
    My vote IS all about me and what I believe in (5.00 / 2) (#164)
    by Ellie on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:47:12 PM EST
    I'll tell you, unequivocally and off the top of my head, two people my vote is NOT about:

    1. You
    2. Obama

    The Dems had plenty of opportunities to stand agaist the Bush era stacking of the courts, the DOJ and the Supreme Court with right wing ringers.

    This attempt to lay guilt, shame and blame for being targets of political weasels -- right and left -- on women is disgusting. Let's see Obama's record and actions affirmatively standing up to this persecution.

    Let's compare that to his run headlong into the persecutors in the name of "Unity". I call it pandering.

    [ Parent ]

    Still barking? (none / 0) (#162)
    by feet on earth on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:35:05 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Angie - this is BS (none / 0) (#159)
    by Chuck001 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:15:10 PM EST
    Angie, are you for real? You think he has  been making sexist attacks?  I think you are reaching here. This guy has grown up surrounded by women. My former Torts professor is a very good fiend of his. I think your accusations are way off base.  You did say you were a lawyer, correct?


    [ Parent ]
    It isn't BS (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by angie on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:39:56 PM EST
    I have heard Obama say, with my own ears, that Hillary's experiences as first lady was nothing more then having tea with world leaders -- that is sexist. I have heard him say that when she's feeling down she goes on the attack -- sexist. I have heard him say that Hillary's "claws are coming out" -- sexist. Now, if you don't understand how those are sexist statements, I'm not going to explain them to you.  And I don't care about your friend of a friend who "knows him" -- that means bupkiss to me -- I'm sure he is a "nice guy" but plenty of "nice guys" are also sexist -- and the bs about his being "raised surrounded by women" as proof he isn't sexist compared to the actual statements he has made in this race doesn't hold water -- everyone has a mother, doesn't mean there is not sexism in the world.  

    [ Parent ]
    You are new here (5.00 / 2) (#167)
    by waldenpond on Sun May 04, 2008 at 07:27:37 PM EST
    I would suggest you do a search and see the numerous posts on this topic.

    You did say you were a lawyer, correct?

    That is rude. Knock off the condescending attitude.

    [ Parent ]

    Right, Obama types tend to be rude to others (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by andrys on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:54:41 AM EST
    I'm sick of reading the rude replies to others from Obama types on HuffPost, DailyKos, TPM, Americablog and don't care to see them here where people have been more civil, thanks to Jeralyn and BTD.  These rude and disdainful notes are escalating even here as NC and Indiana primaries near.  It's all about constantly pushing others who don't feel as they do.   Jeralyn doesn't allow people to do that to Obama supporters, but they are so used to it, their entries here are like that.

      Even more than Obama's various dishonesties (look that up on the Net, easy to find) the constant attacks on Hillary and her supporters of the moment by vociferous Obama supporters hurt Obama himself more than anything else.  There have been times I've told myself that I should overlook many things and vote for him in November if that's needed, but people like those posting here today remind me why I want nothing like what I see of the people behind him, in power.  I thought Republicans were disdainful, but they  have nothing on Obama supporters.

    [ Parent ]

    Amen . n/t (none / 0) (#133)
    by DJ on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:37:26 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    good; vote Republican; bye! (none / 0) (#175)
    by seesdifferent on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:57:30 AM EST
    they deserve you.

    [ Parent ]
    back off (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by kimsaw on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:16:36 PM EST
    As I've said before everyone owns their vote. Stop telling people who they should vote for. Your sarcastic fear mongering about McCain is just as bad as the Republicans playing the terror card against Kerry. It may work but it's not a hopey changey new kind of politics now is it.

    Frankly I'm tired of people telling others how they should vote. Each person has to live with their own conscience and I could not in good faith vote for the better of lesser candidates. This isn't a Miss America contest, this is about the leader of our country.

    Even though Clinton presses that we should support who ever is the Dem's nominee, I will not. If she's not it I'm writing in her name.

    I'm an independent beholding to no party and I'm proud of it. Candidates have to prove themselves to me Obama and McCain have failed and neither party has earned my respect or my trust.This cycle the Dems have proven they can't even run an election with clarity and fairness.

    Obama's campaign strategies have proven that he is not a core constituent in his own party. I'm no more afraid of McCain than Obama, either way if Clinton is not in the mix the nation loses.

    [ Parent ]

    I concur (none / 0) (#134)
    by 0 politico on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:39:31 PM EST
    with your comments.

    No one should be bullied into making a vote or supporting a candidate they do not feel they should support.  Regardless of party affiliation (or not).

    [ Parent ]

    Insulting again (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Marvin42 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:23:56 PM EST
    Can you try posting anything without insulting people?

    [ Parent ]
    woof woof (none / 0) (#69)
    by RalphB on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:40:42 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    My intellect (none / 0) (#131)
    by Lady in Blue on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:33:00 PM EST
    is much greater than you make it out to be, otherwise I wouldn't have the ability to post here.  

    I hold Democratic ideals, but that does not mean I have to be loyal to the Democratic Party.

    I do not trust Barack Obama, and I have serious reservations about his inexperience, his arrogance, and the disconnect he has with many Americans.  That is the way I feel, and I believe more people than you know feel the same way.  

    If you want to resort to name-calling and label me as a "dog" because of my opinions, then fine.  My tail is happily wagging.  


    [ Parent ]

    There are more women than men (5.00 / 3) (#73)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:46:14 PM EST
    in the US. If we all write in Hillary, if she doesn't get the nomination, she will win anyway. Imagine the headlines the day after the election--
    "America's women roar, and write-in Hillary Clinton by a landslide."
    Ok, that's the headline and the first part of the article..but wouldn't that be great?!?!?

    The census page says there are 5 million or so more of us than men. And I am sure more men have died than women since 2000, they just don't live as long.  So let's start a national underground movement to write her in if the SDs lose their minds and decide Obama is more electable. We can do it, telephone trees, email trees, the whole ball of wax that we have used for years to organize the kiddies and their activities. We can use it to organize ourselves a President.

    Just an idea..heh.

    [ Parent ]

    I'll try again (none / 0) (#125)
    by chopper on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:12:00 PM EST
    Thanks, sent and signed.. (none / 0) (#153)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:38:07 PM EST
    and with an angry note about their treatment of me as a voter and of Hillary as a candidate.

    [ Parent ]
    Sign petition & comment (none / 0) (#124)
    by chopper on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:11:05 PM EST
    Please go here to sign the petition for FL & MI voters to be heard and leave a comment...



    [ Parent ]

    Whose fault is it? (none / 0) (#128)
    by Chuck001 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:15:50 PM EST
    How is Michigan and Florida Obama's fault?

    As far as I read it, Obama and Edwards and other candidates played by the DNC rules and didn't campaign in these States?

    How is playing by the rules a knock on women?

    [ Parent ]

    Hillary did not campaign (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by DJ on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:41:15 PM EST
    in those states.  Obama had ads and a fund raiser in Florida.  He only took his name off of the Michigan ballot because he knew he was not going to win.  He urged his supporters to vote undecided (as did Edwards).  So who exactly broke the rules?

    [ Parent ]
    He blocked the re-votes (5.00 / 3) (#137)
    by dianem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:45:47 PM EST
    They decided, for whatever reasons, to allow the revotes to occur only if both campaigns agreed on the rules. He wouldn't agree. A revote would have been fair. He played by the letter of the rules, but not by the spirit, which says that every vote has to count, even if they aren't likely to go in your favor. This isn't a knock on women. The only reason this is about women is that the Democratic Party seems to be taking us for granted, assuming that we will toe the line and vote for Obama no matter what.  Nobody wants to be taken for granted.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, but are you religious? (1.00 / 1) (#32)
    by oculus on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:54:39 PM EST
    If so, you are keeping it under wraps here!

    [ Parent ]
    Hillary, my Energizer Bunny Candidate (5.00 / 13) (#3)
    by stillife on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:55:29 PM EST
    can always be depended upon to respond in a sensible and thorough manner to "gotcha" questions.  

    Don't hate me for invoking Joe Scarborough, but the other day, after her O'Reilly interview, Joe said that she's the strongest Dem candidate he's seen in years - and she just keeps getting better and better.  He still thinks the numbers are stacked against her, but she's at the top of her game.    

    That's our girl! (5.00 / 7) (#15)
    by Kathy on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:17:14 PM EST
    I quoted this elsewhere, but I think it bears repeating, mostly to humiliate BTD because HE'S SIMPATICO WITH NEWT GINGRICH  hahahaha!

    Anyway, Gingrich was asked in Time who was the most electable dem against McCain, and this is what he said:

    "I think...Clinton has a lower ceiling and a higher floor.  She probably can't get much above 53-54%...and she probably can't drop much below 47%....Obama is the bigger gamble for the dems.  He could be a unifying national leader.  He could collapse as well."

    So, dems: win with Clinton or roll the dice with Obama.  Why is this even a question?

    [ Parent ]

    Clinton is more polarizing (none / 0) (#130)
    by Chuck001 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:27:30 PM EST
    In answer to your question,

    The polls are never static. If the election was today, yes, a HRC win could happen. However, Obama has been vetted during this process.

    HRC has not been and she would be. The Republican Party  will attack her on a multitude of her own mistatements and dispute her claims of experience [see failed health plan here, Ireland, Bosnia] in the White House.

    No one told her to talk about ducking under sniper fire. And no one told her to provoke a foreign country with a nuculear threat when she is in second place in the nomination process.

    The Republican Party will say HRC feels she is entitled. In addition they will attack her questionable associations with past business associates.  


    [ Parent ]

    On the other hand (none / 0) (#136)
    by DJ on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:45:31 PM EST
    HRC has been attacked for YEARS.  She failed at health care..McCain failed at campaign reform (or have those special interest group ads stopped running?)
    100 yrs, shia vs sunni, war for oil...there is plenty to beat back McCain if they go that route.
    On the other hand, Obama has lost his luster, and he can't run on judgment, not anymore.

    [ Parent ]
    and (none / 0) (#138)
    by DJ on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:46:22 PM EST
    the entitlement line works just as well for McCain
    and  the questionable associates?  Keating Five anyone?

    [ Parent ]
    Hillary vs McCain (none / 0) (#139)
    by DJ on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:47:22 PM EST
    will be more about policy differences than anything else IMHO.

    If Obama runs...well what exact policy is he going to run on?

    [ Parent ]

    as usual (none / 0) (#171)
    by Kathy on Sun May 04, 2008 at 08:44:55 PM EST
    If Obama runs...well what exact policy is he going to run on?

    He'd run on Clinton's.

    Though, I think our girl has this thing locked up by Tuesday, so it won't even be an issue.

    [ Parent ]

    actually, that's precisely what obama and his (none / 0) (#191)
    by kangeroo on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:54:57 AM EST
    supporters have been doing this entire campaign--and she's STILL gaining on him.  they've done worse things to her, in fact.  nothing new, yawn.

    [ Parent ]
    exactly! bingo. (none / 0) (#190)
    by kangeroo on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:52:01 AM EST
    but contrary to obamablog cw, i don't think obama has a higher ceiling.  at least as of now, i think he has a lower ceiling than clinton's and a far, FAR lower floor.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm actually staying up (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by facta non verba on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:21:47 PM EST
    until 4AM (I live on the West Coast) 2-3x weekly just to watch Morning Joe. I work for myself so I can work while I wait.

    Joe Scarborough has really impressed me. He talks as someone who has actually run for office and served in Congress. His insights have been amazing. Now, he thinks the Reverend Wright saga is over and it won't be a factor going forward at least in the primary. But he is openly pro-Hillary calling her "my girlfriend" or "my gal" and saying he's amazed by her knowledge and her fighting spirit. He also says Clinton connects with the working class in a way that Obama never can or will. It's not just about economics but values. And people still vote with their values and that's something Obama is going to have a hard time overcoming come November. Not impossible but hard.

    [ Parent ]

    I've started watching (none / 0) (#85)
    by stillife on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:02:34 PM EST
    Morning Joe in the a.m.  (I live in NYC).  Like you, I enjoy Joe's commentary not only b/c he supports Hillary but b/c he has the perspective of someone who's actually run for office.  This past week, he praised her as a "political athlete" who's at the top of her game.  

    I know journalists will turn on a dime, but I noted that on Hardball recently, Joe corrected somebody who referred to him as a Republican.  Maybe Hillary has converted him!  

    I have to admit I got an evil chuckle out of his imitation of Obama's "faculty lounge" persona.  And i notice that he's even gotten Mika to tone down her Obama fangurl act.

    [ Parent ]

    Why Hillary agreed to the Steph interview this (none / 0) (#39)
    by bridget on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:05:55 PM EST
    Sunday two days before IN and NH I don't understand.   I doubt it helps her. Hope I am wrong.

    I didn't see it but I always expect the worst from GS re the Clintons. While Russert helps Obama to look good and Obama knows and expects it, Steph does the opposite for HC. Someone posted on Mydd that he was more confrontational than O'Reilly.

    I am v. biased what Steph is concerned and wish the Clintons had never talked to him again after he stabbed them in the back. I guess thats why I could never run for Prez. Scarborough got it right, Hillary is the strongest Dem candidate in years. IMO since ... well, Bill.  

    [ Parent ]

    Because (none / 0) (#54)
    by cal1942 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:20:55 PM EST
    she has the right stuff.

    [ Parent ]
    It's a good media op, but he had his agenda (none / 0) (#57)
    by Cream City on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:21:27 PM EST
    as I could see, to argue against the widespread squawking that he had been on her side in the ABC debate.  So I appreciate this transcript of this answer, as I could hardly follow what she said amid all of Steph's interruptions today.  Actually, it was after this exchange that I simply turned it off, hard as it always is to get anything out of such squawk-radio style.

    Steph and others:  If I tune in, it is to hear what your guests have to say.  The more that you turn me off with this style, the less often that I will tune in at all.  I'm not going to watch his show again soon.

    [ Parent ]

    She is being very smart when she talks to (none / 0) (#80)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:58:13 PM EST
    George. She is showing that she can deal intelligently and calmly with questions she must know are designed to bring her down and that she can talk civilly to someone who hasn't given her the same courtesy. If she can deal with a back-stabber like li'l George, then she won't have problems bringing Republicans and Democrats together on important issues. She is showing that she is a master politician who doesn't get rattled when attacked.

    Unlike Obama who can't answer a policy question properly to save his life, and who whines about how the Rev. Wright media reaction rattled him. I mean, come on!! If that rattled him, he sure as hell isn't ready for prime time. McCain will take him apart. Hillary will face McCain down and beat him on policy and plans. Obama will whine and talk about himself.

    [ Parent ]

    I do agree with all the points you make (none / 0) (#92)
    by bridget on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:16:18 PM EST
    and hopefully most of the viewers will look at it the same way.

    No doubt in my mind that Hillary will beat McCain in every debate.

    [ Parent ]

    rattling (none / 0) (#141)
    by Chuck001 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:51:30 PM EST
    Hm.. I disagree FLaDemFem. first of all - I do not think Obama "whines".

    Second, Charles Rangel  [ an HRC supporter] said  
    "If we've got to get into the Jerry Falwells and to the [Pat] Robertsons and to the number of people that have what appears to other religions to be bizarre beliefs, we'll never get to the issues that America is concerned about."
    It's fear mongering at its best. Any person with two legs knows that.

    I think Obama was rattled because talking about a pastor, who was not his mentor, and just his pastor, during a Presidential race, cheats the American people chances of measuring the issues.
    I think he is over that now.

    Third, on Policy: According to economists and the Obama camp, a gas tax holiday equals : small individual benefits(30 dollars), loss of collective jobs, a possible hike in gas overall, and more votes (supposedly) for HRC due to her (supposed) pandering.

    I have no idea how she connects waiving a federal gas tax that brings jobs and helps  to build roads and bridges with "willingness to take on gas companies."  THEY ARE NOT CONNECTED.  She's not cutting one penny from gas company profits. This is plain smoke and mirrors.

    Obama has done this before, and his experience  in the State Senate (before he was in the US senate) shows it doesn't work.

    What is her experience?  She thumbs at the economists. She wants people to know she feels for them. There is no rational application here. If there is more here, please tell me. This tax thing will hurt her, because it is a bad choice.

    Moreover, Obama is attacking HRC on issues such as 1)not apologizing for voting on the Iraq War, as Edwards, Kerry and others have and 2) Forcing poor people to pay for Health care and penalizing them if they cant afford it. However Obama is staying away from personal attacks on her that he thinks will hurt the party. Call it goodwill, naive or whatever. But I'd rather have that than another version of bully bush.

      HRC waxes poetic about how Obama belittled voters by saying they are bitter or they cling. Obama apologized for using inappropriate phrasing. However the build up of the inappropriate phrasing was given far more press than HRC's NAFTA reversal or her aggregious Bosnia mistatement. The press will have more time for her if she should somehow manage to get the nomination.

    [ Parent ]

    So when is Obama going to start talking (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:19:20 PM EST
    about his policies in more than vague generalities? He attacks, and misleads people about, Hillary's plans, but never counters with anything of his own that is substantiative. His comments after the last debate were tantamount to whining. His supporters, and endorsers, continually call for Hillary to drop out. He says nothing when his supporters BOO her. He is a small man. A very small man. He is just tall physically. Not any other way. I don't like him, I think he is a phony, I think he is not ready for the job of President, and I think that electing him would be the worst thing this country could do. It would absolutely prove to the rest of the world that the United States cannot find a competent, qualified President. Well, they can, they just don't elect them. They go with the guy with charisma, or that you want to have a beer with. Yeah, Obama in the White House would be the worst thing that could happen to this country. I am sorry you aren't bright enough to see that. I really am.

    [ Parent ]
    But then Scarborough (none / 0) (#46)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:14:23 PM EST
    went on to say there is no way Hillary can get the nomination.  It is the MSNBC mantra.

    [ Parent ]
    Stop watching (none / 0) (#51)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:18:12 PM EST
    MSNBC is only one of many channels. Until they can find an unbiased commentator who reports the news rather than making it up, they should have to live with low ratings and minimal earnings capabilities.

    [ Parent ]
    I like to watch (none / 0) (#56)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:21:25 PM EST
    Scarborough & Buchanan.  Especially in Buchanan's case, it's a window into what some on the right are thinking.  And, I think Buchanan truly calls them as he sees them.  He has called Obama out on Rev. Wright, and he opposed the Iraq War from the outset.  

    [ Parent ]
    Same here (none / 0) (#77)
    by stillife on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:50:35 PM EST
    Best TV commentary on this election has come from conservatives, IMO.  Plus, I find Scarborough's admiration of Hillary rather endearing.  

    [ Parent ]
    Chance to participate (5.00 / 9) (#4)
    by blogtopus on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:59:54 PM EST
    CLINTON: Well, but the rules said we shouldn't campaign. But there was nothing saying take your name off the ballot, and there was nothing saying that, eventually, we wouldn't give the voters, 2.3 million of them, in Florida and Michigan, 2.3 million of them, a chance to participate in the process.

    That was good phrasing. If Obama were to say split them 50/50, that's not participation. If the delegates are seated only after the nomination is done, that's not participation. Only if their votes are counted can it be said they participated in selecting the nominee.

    Delegates only (5.00 / 0) (#42)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:10:23 PM EST
    from all I've read, the punishment for the early primary was in the pledged delegates. The votes were to be counted, and the superdelegates would not be impacted.

    It is Howard Dean's responsibility to make sure the agreement is understood and followed.  He either doesn't understand them, himself, or he doesn't like the truth that would be exposed if he explained these rules.


    [ Parent ]

    Um... Hillary is talking about the Dems (5.00 / 4) (#53)
    by derridog on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:19:39 PM EST
    in Florida and Michigan being able to participate. You are mixing apples and oranges here.  Yes, the CANDIDATES were not supposed to campaign or participate.  But, if leaving your name on the ballot is participating, then Obama also did that in Florida. If he was such a purist, he would have taken if off there too, but he didn't because then he wouldn't be on the ballot in November, acc. to Florida rules.  Obama also campaigned in Florida, as he ran national ads in that state prior to its primary.  Hillary did NOT do that.  The names of all the candidates were on the ballot in Florida and 1.7 million people ( a record number) came out to vote and she won.  In Michigan she also won.  Obama was telling people to vote uncommitted, which they had the opportunity to do. Instead, a majority of the Michigan people decided to vote for her instead.  The uncommitted voters in Michigan, however, included people who wanted Edwards, who also took his name off the ballot.   So, if Obama gets all the uncommitted voters in that state, he is getting more than those who voted for him already.  

     In addition, he is the one who squelched having a revote in both states. He can't have it both ways, disenfranchising millions of people because he wasn't on the ballot and then refusing to have a revote where he IS on the ballot,  just so he can win.  If you think that is fair, just imagine if the situation were reversed and Obama had won those states and Hillary was being the obstructionist.   Right.

    You really need to inform yourself about the facts.

    [ Parent ]

    John Conyers (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by cal1942 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:50:07 PM EST
    ran radio ads in Detroit urging people to vote Uncommitted.  The ad said that to vote for Obama, vote Uncommitted.

    Probably not a violation of the agreement because it wasn't the Obama campaign, but to say there was no Obama campaign is not correct.

    It should also be understood that the G rated version of removing himself from the ballot is just that, G rated.  He took himself off the ballot to taint a probable Clinton victory.

    Inasmuch as fair is concerned, the entire process is not fair.  As long as public caucuses are mixed in with primaries the process is not fair. As long as caucuses prohibit private voting and invoke the 15% viability rule they are not fair.  As long as caucuses can be a scene dominated by a mob the process is not fair.

    It's also not fair that New Hampshire is always awarded the first primary. It's not fair that a small state has a disproportionate influence on selecting the nominee.

    It's not fair to the nation that a candidate of meager experience and questionable accomplishments can get traction in a small state and become a major candidate of little real merit.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama also came to FL to do (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:01:30 PM EST
    some fundraising before the primary and addressed the media afterwards. Not an official campaign stop, I am sure, but still..very close to the line.

    [ Parent ]
    Actually it was against the pledge to not campaign (none / 0) (#100)
    by alexei on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:30:23 PM EST
    And one of the reporters mentioned that this was against the pledge (no interviews was expressly in the pledge) and that is when Obama threw a little "hissy" fit and stopped the interview.

    [ Parent ]
    Well. since he can't play by the rules, (none / 0) (#112)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:46:07 PM EST
    why is he so insistent on their being followed by everyone else?? I think that since he campaigned in FL, after pledging not to, that he should forfeit the FL delegates he got. Of course, the DNC won't notice his breaking the rules. It's ok if you are Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    The 'pundits' miss everything they want to (none / 0) (#179)
    by andrys on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:12:38 AM EST
    Such as Obama running tv ads there several times a day for a couple of weeks before the Florida primary.  He was the only one to do that.  They were part of a national ad bundle.  Smart guy in that regard.

      He also did that impromptu press conference, crossing the street to meet reporters, which has been noted, and that was disallowed by rules so he stopped after being reminded.  They each did about 15 fund-raisers, as these were allowed, and one debate.

      There is one thing known:  Obama and his supporters fear the impact of that Florida vote despite his having been the only one to campaign there, in two ways.

      He did himself ask Michigan voters to vote for Uncommitted, and for that I feel he deserves those votes, since he asked  for that (as did his campaign) and Edwards didn't.

      But he and his campaign are not interested in fairness here, because he fears the voting not going entirely for him, even in a revote, which he was the only one to turn down in Michigan.  

    [ Parent ]

    But remember (5.00 / 3) (#142)
    by DJ on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:54:23 PM EST
    that is how he plays.  Kick everyone off the ballot but me, Run practically unopposed.  Oh and don't count those voters who didn't vote for me.

    [ Parent ]
    Exactly. His favorite thing is No Opposition (none / 0) (#180)
    by andrys on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:14:23 AM EST
    Knock the other person out of the race so he doesn't have to run against anyone.  That's been his entire history.

      When he finally faced a candidate it was Alan Keyes.  Lucky Obama.  Not so lucky these days.  This candidate doesn't just jump off as he wants.

    [ Parent ]

    derridog - you're kidding right (none / 0) (#152)
    by Chuck001 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:36:15 PM EST
    derridog writes
    "But, if leaving your name on the ballot is participating, then Obama also did that in Florida. If he was such a purist, he would have taken if off there too, but he didn't because then he wouldn't be on the ballot in November, acc. to Florida rules."

    Your evaluation of what a "purist" is, or what a "purist" should be, is ludicrous but very funny.

    Why would he not be a purist and leave his name off the ballot in Florida. Simple. Because like you said,  then according to Florida rules, [the same rules that gave us Bush instead of Gore],  he wouldn't be on the ballot in November Presidential election. He's smarter than that.

    Derridog writes
    "In addition, he is the one who squelched having a revote in both states. "

    No. No. No. wrong. Each side had terms, the states had terms, the DNC had terms. You need to check your facts. One side, or multiple sides disagreeing with each other on how to proceed, does not equal one party being entirely at fault. It is misleading of you to characterize it in this way, and most people see through it.

    Derridog writes
    "If you think that is fair, just imagine if the situation were reversed and Obama had won those states and Hillary was being the obstructionist."

    Why Imagine? It didn't happen. This is pure subjective speculation.  Or maybe? Oh , you mean like when Gore needed help in 2000 and the Clintons did what?

    [ Parent ]

    PushPol, I disagree with your loose interpretation (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by lookoverthere on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:21:02 PM EST
    of "participate." There was absolutely no requirement that any candidate remove his or her name from the ballot.

    BTW, Jeralyn blogged about this in early March.

    [ Parent ]

    You have said this before and were told (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by Cream City on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:24:31 PM EST
    before the same things you will see now, so stop wasting bandwidth on this blog until you come up with a stock comment that also includes why Obama then, by your definition (and not the definition of the pledge, which was quite detailed about this), broke your roolz and was on the Florida ballot.  And, even by the pledge roolz, did campaign there.

    [ Parent ]
    Fyi, see the "comment policy" (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by Cream City on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:58:20 PM EST
    i.e.:    "Bandwidth is expensive. The comment space is reserved for comments that relate to the topic of the post . You may not reprint lengthy text from your own works or those of others, including news articles. You may quote one or two short paragraphs and link to them. . . ." and
    "TalkLeft will limit commenters to four comments a day if, in its sole discretion, the commenter is a 'chatterer,' loosely defined as one who both holds opposing views from those expressed by TalkLeft and posts numerous times a day with the intent of dominating, re-directing or hijacking the thread; or posts numerous times a day and insults or calls other commenters names or repeatedly makes the same point with the effect of annoying other commenters."  And there is more good reading there.

    [ Parent ]
    It was a (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by cal1942 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:12:30 PM EST
    wholesale violation of the rules to levy  penalties without a hearing.

    It was an extraordinary step to level the death penalty when the rules recommend a 50% penalty.

    It was a violation of rules to penalize Michigan and Florida without also penalizing New Hampshire, Iowa and South Carolina.

    If you're so particular about the rules (the whole damn thing was straight out of a grade school playground) then why is it "silly" to point out that Obama did in fact run cable TV ads in Florida. That was a violation of the Rules.

    And yes, the WISE thing to do is to count Michigan and Florida 100% as is in lieu of risking the possible loss of both states.

    I suppose you believe that Obama deserves to win after refusing to agree to a sensible solution.

    It's certainly not like awarding an extra 500 votes to caucus states or changing to winner take all or whatever silly comparison you wish to make.

    It's about recognizing the commitment of 2.3 million people who went to the polls and voted.

    It's criminally stupid to simply throw out the people who are needed to win their respective states.

    [ Parent ]

    Small national ad buy??? (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by IzikLA on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:50:18 PM EST
    Well, that very statement contradicts itself.  And, unless I'm mistaken, some of those national buys were for the Superbowl.  Hardly "rather small".

    [ Parent ]
    His Fla ads ran before the Fla primary (none / 0) (#181)
    by andrys on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:16:58 AM EST
    That is known.

    [ Parent ]
    Florida DEMS (none / 0) (#44)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:12:58 PM EST
    Did not move up the date of their own accord. The Republican legislature forced this on them, and the DNC Rules/By-Laws Committee action played right into the Republicans' hands.

    [ Parent ]
    I thought they had no choice (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:42:03 PM EST
    It is my understanding that the legislation would have passed without Dem votes, and that the Dems had no choice because the Republicans attached to the bill important voting [machine] reform legislation.  

    [ Parent ]
    The Rs attached... (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by NWHiker on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:33:09 PM EST
    ... the "paper trail" rules to the primary date vote, iirc. Voting against the package would be interpreted at taking a stand again -in Florida!- a paper trail on ballots.

    No real choice for the legislators.

    And if "participate" meant "taking your name off the ballot" then it should have said exactly that. Obama took his off strategically, it probably helped him in Iowa and NH.

    [ Parent ]

    They supported the bill NOT the amendment. (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:07:20 PM EST
    They supported the bill to ensure a paper trail for votes. The amendment to change the primary date was a "poison pill" attached to the bill by the Republicans because they knew the Dems wouldn't vote against a bill to guarantee a paper trail for votes. The Dems supported the bill, NOT the amendment.

    [ Parent ]
    That's not what happened. (none / 0) (#170)
    by jccamp on Sun May 04, 2008 at 08:15:42 PM EST
    The original bill in the Fla House (including the new primary dates) was sponsored by 2 Republicans. It passed out of 2 different committees on  unanimous votes, including every Democrat on both committees. When the House bill hit the floor, 6 or 7 Democratic Representatives joined as co-sponsors.

    There was a nearly identical bill in the Fla Senate, but without the moved-up primary dates. The Amendment to the Senate bill adding the revised dates was introduced by a Democrat to reconcile the two versions. When the revised bill was considered, only one House Democrat voted against the bill. In the Senate, only 2.

    This measure as passed was popular across party lines. Both parties wanted to gain some significance for their respective primaries by moving up the date (ironically not realizing that this year, later primaries would count for more). Neither considered that the national parties would actually sanction a state as large and important as Florida.

    To claim that the evil Republicans forced this on the protesting Democrats in the Florida Legislature is to rewrite history.  It was a boneheaded miscalculation by both parties' politicians in Florida. As it happened, this year, it did not effect the Republicans. Had the Republicans been looking at a close 2-candidate race, we'd be hearing all about the evil Dems forcing this awful legislation on the poor people of Florida.

    It serves no one by trying to change what actually happened.

    [ Parent ]

    Bill and amendment (none / 0) (#178)
    by andrys on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:04:16 AM EST
    The original bill included the paper trail which even
    Wexler was there to encourage as it had been a long battle to get that up for a vote.

      The amendment later was JUST to move the primary to
    February 5 but Republicans voted it down.  

    [ Parent ]

    The argument (none / 0) (#94)
    by IzikLA on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:16:46 PM EST
    That people did not know Obama does not fly with me.  He won Iowa after all and I do believe that was the very first state.  He did very well in the early states.

    [ Parent ]
    Moot. HRC is using this issue as diversion. (none / 0) (#144)
    by Chuck001 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:03:40 PM EST
    Blogtopus;

    HRC said the rules said they were not allowed to campaign.

    The fact that Michigan and Florida did not follow the rules is a diversion. Even though HRC, was the presumptive leader, with huge name recognition and a gigantic war chest and connections, she  flipped on this issue after the votes came in, and after other contenders took their name off the ballot in one state.

     This whole incident, should have been vetted behind closed doors. It makes the DNC look like a circus and HRC as the ringleader.  No one;  no one running for Democratic Presidential office wants to disenfranchise voters. This was a procedural mess, and HRC is trying to blame who for it? Is there a conspiracy?
    Rings Hollow. Where is the real issue?

    [ Parent ]

    Obama blocked revotes (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by RalphB on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:16:56 PM EST
    that's the issue.

    [ Parent ]