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Sunday Afternoon Open Thread

Don't forget to watch Recount tonight or tomorrow night.

I'm done for the afternoon, enjoy the holiday, get outside, but for those who can't or don't want to, here's an open thread.

Comments now closed, there is a new open thread up.

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    Bill Burton Blames Bill Clinton (5.00 / 10) (#2)
    by waldenpond on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:22:38 PM EST
    The hubris post is full.

    Barack Obama wants Bill to heal Hillary Clinton wounds

    [Senior officials on Obama's campaign believe Bill Clinton has the unique status and political gifts to reunite the party after such gaffes. They expressed confidence that the former president would rise above the perceived slights and grudges of a hard-fought campaign and work flat out for an Obama victory in November's presidential election.

    "If anybody can put their arms around the party and say we need to be together, it is Bill Clinton," a senior Obama aide said.  

    "He's brilliant, he has got heart and he cares deeply about the country. It's tricky because of his position as Hillary's spouse, but his involvement is very important to us.

    "Bill Clinton will give permission to Hillary supporters to come into our camp and become one party. He is critical to this effort." ]
    ................................

    I'm creeped out by the Obama campaign, especially Bill Burton.... but did he just say the Clinton just divided the two campaigns and now Bill will have to come in and clean up Clinton's mess?  and if Bill doesn't fix this, it's the Clinton's fault.   Jack@ss.

    To CST: Bill Burton, I tell you, one of my 10.


    Appalling. (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by masslib on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:24:49 PM EST
    Disgusting (5.00 / 10) (#4)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:31:19 PM EST
    they now want the demons to make it better?

    Parent
    Gallup: Clinton sustantial lead over McCain (5.00 / 2) (#152)
    by andrys on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:23:14 PM EST
    The headline is actually

    Gallup Daily: Clinton Maintains Lead Over McCain

    PRINCETON, NJ -- Gallup Poll Daily tracking from May 20-24 finds Hillary Clinton maintaining a significant 49% to 44% lead over John McCain when registered voters are asked about their preferences for the fall general election, while McCain has a slight 47% to 45% advantage over Barack Obama.
     . . .
    Despite the fact that Obama is considered to be the highly probable Democratic nominee, Gallup Poll Daily tracking continues to show that, at the moment, Clinton is performing better against presumptive Republican nominee John McCain than is Obama. Clinton's five percentage point lead over McCain is statistically significant, and considerably stronger than Obama's 2-point loss to McCain among registered voters nationwide.
     . . .
    There are only three primaries left for Democrats this year -- Puerto Rico on June 1, and South Dakota and Montana on June 3. At that point, all eyes will turn to challenger Clinton as she and her campaign team contemplate their next move as the Democratic Party moves towards their late August convention in Denver. -- Frank Newport

     (Obama is more popular with Dems than Hillary though.)

    Worth a lead article ?

    Parent

    So it's Electoral College + General vote-draw (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by andrys on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:27:55 PM EST
    These are the advantages right now.

    1. She polls, head-to-head, higher over McCain

    2. She is beating McCain, with electoral-college poll-matches

    3. She may well get the Democratic primary popular vote,
    including caucus states where the votes can be known

    Watch for the RFKgate stuff to get even more hysterical.

      The new NYTimes story has over 600 notes, probably 90% of them asking her to quit.  I suspect paid bloggers since so many of the notes have the same thing in them under different names.

    General Electric (NBC/MSNBC) really seems to hate the idea of Clinton in play in the General Election.  So does Robert Murdoch and his NY Post.  Lordy.

    Parent

    the SDs are moving to Obama (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by Josey on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:45:55 PM EST
    the People are moving to Hillary.
    Donna Brazile is changing her panties several times a day.


    Parent
    bleh (5.00 / 3) (#174)
    by Kathy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:50:18 PM EST
    the last thing I want to think about is that woman's undergarments.

    Parent
    Has this been discussed? (5.00 / 4) (#183)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:09:24 PM EST
    I'm watching CNN and there's a reporter (Josh) telling Suzanne Malveaux that: "the Obama campaign sent reporters a link to a video of MSNBC's Keith Olbermann's slamming Clinton for her [RFK] remarks".

    That looks really, really indefensible, and desperate doesn't it? When did this news first get out?

    Parent

    Yes, it's been mentioned at the NYTimes blog (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by andrys on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:26:00 PM EST
    and links were given as well as to an AP story about
    Obama camp being the impetus to NYPost to point out
    the RFK thing.

      They're not even denying they sent the Olbermann
    rant links to press yesterday (and some have already
    printed portions of Olbermann's insanity).

      While head man serenely stays above it all,
    ever positive, ever forgiving.  The blogs are filled
    with how he never takes advantage of Hillary's
    problems.

    Parent

    WashingtonPost blog says it's true (5.00 / 4) (#197)
    by andrys on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:37:05 PM EST
    Washington Post confirms that Obama campaign staff sent links to the Olbermann horror show.
    The Obama campaign called Clinton's words unfortunate and circulated a TV commentary criticizing them, although Obama himself said Saturday that he took Clinton at her word that she meant no harm.
     . . .
    Obama senior strategist David Axelrod dodged questions about why the campaign was still circulating commentaries criticizing Clinton even after suggesting it wants to move beyond the controversy...

    Ah, Hope, Change, New Politics ...


    Parent

    Obama/Axelrod = Bush/Rove (5.00 / 2) (#200)
    by Josey on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:59:03 PM EST
    Remember Bush/Rove mixed messages? Rove would stir up a non-issue about Dems. Fox and Drudge would promote it - other media would jump onboard and have Dems in a tizzy - then Bush would downplay it or never respond.
    Later we'd learn the media covered up negative news about the Bush admin.

    Clinton won 2 terms without the media advantage.


    Parent

    Can you say (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:34:21 PM EST
    hubris?

    Parent
    Color Coded Clinton Alert (5.00 / 9) (#6)
    by Step Beyond on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:37:44 PM EST
    I thought Bill Clinton was a racist and a terrible president who did nothing for the Dems and only wanted power and money?

    They should put out one of those terror color coded alerts, that could tell me each day how I am supposed to feel about the Clintons.

    Red - Hate them - The Clinton's are encouraging Obama's assassination!!!
    Orange - Dislike them - Hillary will do anything to win. The Clintons are an evil dynasty that must be stopped.
    Yellow - Pity them - Bill Clinton was a terrible president who left all the Dems behind.
    Blue - Like them just a little - They're likable enough.
    Green - Love them - The Clinton's give their permission for you to vote for Obama. The Bill Clinton presidency shows Dems make better presidents.

    Parent

    ROFL!! (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by tek on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:38:28 PM EST
    Sounds like Burton (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Jake Left on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:38:16 PM EST
    thinks we really need Bill and Hillary back together in the White House. If Bill is the smartest and best, then we should elect Hillary and let her make Bill VP. Barack could have 8 years to learn how to be a progressive.

    Parent
    They want the adults to come in (5.00 / 9) (#26)
    by Kathy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:11:41 PM EST
    and clean up the mess they made.

    Sorry, no dice.  And I love Bill Clinton, too, but he cannot persuade me to vote for Obama.  Neither could HRC, and y'all know I love my girl.  

    Parent

    As a mother (5.00 / 6) (#36)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:19:37 PM EST
    it's been my experience that sometimes spoiled kids need tough love.  Clean up your own messes!

    Parent
    Yep (5.00 / 4) (#104)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:33:12 PM EST
    use Colin Powells pottery barn rule:

    You broke it, you own it. They seem to act like Bush owns Iraq (which he does) then Obama is going to have to clean up his own mess for once.

    And yeah, after the RFK thing, the Obama campaign has burned too many bridges for me.

    If they really want to heal the party, Obama could just withdraw from the nomination.

    Parent

    As much as I love Bill Clinton, he can NEVER (5.00 / 10) (#8)
    by Angel on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:40:19 PM EST
    convince me to vote for Obama.  Never in a million years.  And I don't think it's his place or Hillary's place to "heal the wounds and unite the Democratic party."  Obama is the one who just couldn't wait his turn in line and is responsible for the division in the party.  If he's so great why can't he heal the wounds of the party?  It's because he isn't as great as he thinks he is.  I can't wait for the general election.  The country will finally get to see what he is really about.  And Michelle too.  They both have chips the size of Mount Rushmore on their shoulders.  They are in for a hard fall.

    Parent
    I'm getting the popcorn ready (5.00 / 6) (#11)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:43:05 PM EST
    for the upcoming fall (and I mean fall in both senses of the word).  

     

    Parent

    Yes, they are all in for a rude awakening (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Lisa on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:28:36 PM EST
    and I hope Bill and Hillary have the good sense to take a long vacation, and by all means, do whatever is politically necessary, hold up a rah, rah, go Democrats sign now and then, but for the most part, let Obama & Co. reap what they have sown.

    It's going to get ugly when the politicos realize what Bill Clinton could have taught them if they'd only listened, and when the fan base's hope and change buzz wears off.

    Parent

    I thought Obama (5.00 / 10) (#9)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:41:00 PM EST
    was supposed to be the uniter.  

    They try to push "the Clintons" out of the party and now it's up to Bill to make nice?  

    Sorry, Obama people.  You broke it, you bought it.

    Parent

    I forget who, but I saw a respected (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:47:16 PM EST
    democrat state it was absolutely ridiculous to put the responsibility of reuniting the party on anyone but Obama. He's the one who wants our votes. I sure agree.


    Parent
    It's called leadership (5.00 / 5) (#13)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:49:48 PM EST
    and he's shown precious little of it.

    If not now, when?

    Parent

    many have fallen for his "unity" ruse (5.00 / 4) (#85)
    by Josey on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:01:23 PM EST
    But it's a great "call to arms" for Republicans to block bills and engage in various means of obstruction. If not, they'll lost their next election.
    Most presidential candidates present themselves as "bipartisan" and able to "cross the aisle." But Obama has presented his "unity" as though Republicans will be falling at his feet at the mention of his name - eager to support ALL his bills.
    Even Dem Senators who've endorsed Obama don't vote with him - especially on war bills, because they too want to be re-elected.

    Parent
    If they want to be re-elected in the future, (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:33:35 PM EST
    they need to stop advertising that they've made such a poor choice as a superdelegate.

    In my future selections, I will be analyzing the candidates on my ballot for how good an SD they would be. I'm sure that's going to be a question for many across the country from here on out.


    Parent

    How Can Burton Expect Me To Listen To Bill? (5.00 / 6) (#15)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:56:18 PM EST
    The Obama camp has already branded Bill a racist. Who wants to listen to those awful Clintons.

    At my age, no one gives me permission to think and make up my own mind. I swear being completely "tone deaf" must be a requirement to be part of Obama's campaign.

    Parent

    Guilt & Manipulation (5.00 / 4) (#202)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun May 25, 2008 at 06:20:09 PM EST
    Burton seems to be saying that on the one hand, Bill, it's your fault for creating disunity, and we are free to misrepresent your record, disrespect your accomplishments as president and decry your campaign activities as racist; on the other hand, you are the only one who can lead the party to unity, so it is your responsibility for repairing the damage we've caused. To me, the latest statements are blatant pandering.  They also seem to imply that Hillary is beyond reason unless Bill talks sense into her.  

    Parent
    *dies laughing* (5.00 / 8) (#16)
    by janarchy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:57:15 PM EST
    Bill Clinton could come to my house, cook me dinner, ply me with wine and get down on his knees and beg me and I would not say 'yes' to voting for Obama now.

    It's Obama's responsibility to try to heal the rift and unify the party. Remember he's the Unifier, right? Well, let's see how that goes shall we?

    Parent

    Now, it would be way (5.00 / 7) (#18)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    more fun with Bill in the House than Mr. Himself ambling about and telling me all the great things he has done in his cyber political life.

    Parent
    Of course it would (5.00 / 4) (#28)
    by janarchy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:13:51 PM EST
    I still admit to having a big ol' crush on Bill even after 17 years and a lot of water under the bridge. Which is not to say I haven't been angry with him on a number of occasions or disagreed with his position on issues. I just respect the man for having a mind of his own and his ability to use critical thinking in order to make his decisions.

    Bill and Hillary could come over and beg me to vote for Obama but it's not gonna happen. I was on the fence for a long time -- I guess it's the conditioning you get from being a Democrat for 40 out your 45 years but no more. This latest hysterica fest plus the hubris has just clinched it. Someone's got to say 'no'.

    I keep hoping that Obama will actually grow up, accept some responsibilty and WORK for my vote (as well as so many others). He just can't seem to be bothered. So, no, I can't be bothered to give him the time of day.

    Parent

    A common (5.00 / 0) (#112)
    by tek on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:40:12 PM EST
    big ole crush on Bill.  Gotta love that!

    Parent
    It must be contagious (5.00 / 3) (#176)
    by janarchy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:53:20 PM EST
    I first learned about him from a friend of mine in Arkansas in 1991. He was her governor, she'd worked for him, she was dirt poor, and he paid to bring her entire family to his inaugural ball in Little Rock because there was no way they could afford to go. When she was diagnosed with cancer and in the hospital going through chemo, he called her and made sure she was okay. Debbie used to wear a button of him on her jacket -- she worshipped him. I knew he had to be a good guy in spite of all the bad press (and believe me, my friend was not exactly a bombshell -- quite the opposite so there was no ulterior motive involved!)

    Parent
    It appears (5.00 / 5) (#78)
    by Grace on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:51:09 PM EST
    that Obama's supporters just don't understand why so many aren't voting for Obama now.  Obama is lacking experience!  He has shown no leadership skills.    

    Would you let someone with no experience run your company?


    Parent

    but - Obama won the race (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Josey on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:10:15 PM EST
    by winning rich-delegate red states, so we must nominate the "fastest" not the "bestest" to win in Nov.

    Quantity v Quality

    Parent

    You know what (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by Grace on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:24:09 PM EST
    is the saddest thing about this entire race?  I would have voted for Obama if he had more experience.  If he had spent 6 years in the Senate (like Hillary) and had worked on various projects and had shown some leadership on some of them, I wouldn't have any qualms about voting for him.  

    This "experience" thing is not something that is easy to overcome.  You either have it or you don't.  It's not like Bill Clinton can magically snap his fingers and give Obama experience.  

    Everytime I hear Obama shifting positions on an issue, that little "inexperienced" bell rings in my head.  If he had had more experience, perhaps he wouldn't have had so much difficulty taking a stand on issues.      

    Parent

    If he had had more experience, the entire (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:31:21 PM EST
    campaign would have been different. He could have used it for his talking points instead of the negative trashing of Hillary he has done.

    He's out now trashing her efforts to seat MI & FL, and count their votes as nothing more than a campaign ploy. Of course, his efforts to deny counting the votes in PR is fine.

    The entire campaign has been Obama's camp redoing the rules from place to place...whatever it took for them to look like the winners. YIKES.


    Parent

    That's what I thought, too (none / 0) (#198)
    by Upstart Crow on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:47:12 PM EST
    ...however, as things proceed it seems there are deep-seated character issues. I'm not sure those will sort themselves out in another decade.

    Also, he's 46 YEARS OLD! Kind of old to be "inexperienced."

    Even in the church he attended for over 20 years, he was light on leadership and actually taking responsibility for anything.  All the wonderful things he said Wright did (and did indeed do) -- he took no role in them, other than sizeable financial donations to the church. He seems to be a guy who has avoided "experience."

    Parent

    Forgot link to article (5.00 / 0) (#17)
    by waldenpond on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    OK, I was so p!ssed, I forgot my own link to the article.....

    Barack Obama wants Bill to heal Hillary Clinton wounds


    Parent

    Oh, my goodness! (5.00 / 8) (#29)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:14:25 PM EST
    What a hit piece!

    First, they take the claims of Obama's camp at face value, reporting what they "said".  But no such luck for Hillary.  She "claimed" and "insisted".

    And WTF is this?

    However, while she expressed regret for "referencing that moment of trauma for our entire nation", she did not apologise to Obama, who has been receiving secret security protection for the past year after death threats.

    Again, it's all about poor Obama the "victim" - as if he's the only candidate who's ever received death threats?  The comments about Obama on the blogs pale in comparison to the vitriol aimed at Hillary.  

    And this is the piece de resistance:

    "We have seen an x-ray of a very dark soul," wrote Michael Goodwin, a New York Daily News columnist. "One consumed by raw ambition to where the possible assassination of an opponent is something to ponder in a strategic way. Otherwise, why is murder on her mind?"

    OMG, she's Lady MacBeth!  

    Just when I thought it wasn't possible to loathe the media any more than I already do - there they go again.

    Parent

    Goodwin yesterday (5.00 / 0) (#37)
    by waldenpond on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:20:11 PM EST
    I wrote yesterday, after Goodwin's appearance on Lou Dobbs (unfortunate it was Kitty Pilgrim was on, Dobbs would have called Goodwin on this), that Goodwin would have a rant equal to KOs.

    Parent
    I always miss Dobbs (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:24:18 PM EST
    when he's not on.  Kitty doesn't ask the tough questions.  

    Lou is a populist who seems to be genuinely outraged over the disenfranchisement of voters in MI and FL.   I think he's getting a kick out of the fact that so many folks are vowing to become Independents.  I may soon be one of them - although it's tough here in NY b/c we have closed primaries.

    Parent

    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by janarchy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:27:41 PM EST
    I may soon be one of them - although it's tough here in NY b/c we have closed primaries.

    That's the one reason I haven't switched my affiliation yet but it's coming soon. We can always switch back later if necessary.

    Parent

    used to be my reason (5.00 / 4) (#73)
    by nycstray on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:46:55 PM EST
    not anymore. I figure I can switch back if I want, but right now, nobody can tell me to get in line for the good of the party. Guilt free voting!

    Parent
    At this point (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by janarchy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:04:36 PM EST
    I'm just waiting for some dramatic timing. Probably after next Saturday when we're told by the DNC that Florida and Michigan can't/won't count. I'll have lots of fun venting my spleen at Dr Dean and Ms. Brazille et al.

    Parent
    Remember Obama called on people (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by zfran on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:27:42 PM EST
    during one of the primaries to be "democrats" for a day...so as an independent, you could always be a dem for a day and vote that primary.

    Parent
    Not in NY (none / 0) (#61)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:37:04 PM EST
    Rules vary from state to state.  As an Independent, I would not be able to vote in the Dem or Rep primaries here.  

    Parent
    Just switch (5.00 / 0) (#65)
    by waldenpond on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:40:27 PM EST
    If you know what the deadline in your area is, just switch and then switch back.  Of course, this is easy advice for me to suggest as I have the elections branch half a dozen blocks away, but it's what I'm going to be doing.  I can't take the party anymore.

    Parent
    What I meant, while not saying (none / 0) (#64)
    by zfran on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:39:34 PM EST
    it, sorry, was that when there was a forthcoming election, such as this one, you could re-register to be able to vote in a closed primary. Some Reps. did it (ala El Rushbo-ugh!)to be able to vote in the dem primary.

    Parent
    In NY (5.00 / 0) (#69)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:40:52 PM EST
    they make us wait for a year before new registration takes effect.  

    Still, I might do it anyway.  I want to send a big F-U to the Democratic Party.

    Parent

    Yep (5.00 / 2) (#164)
    by Jane in CA on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:39:44 PM EST
    My sister-in-law in Wisconsin who is a life-long Republican, and a McCain supporter since 2000, voted for Obama during the primary simply because she hates the Clintons so much. She'll vote McCain in the general though. My brother isn't as open about it as she is, but Clinton-hatred is driving his vote as well.  I'm still not clear why they hate the Clintons as much as they do.

    At least this primary has forced them to stop saying that Clinton is the party insider.  Even they don't have enough gall to continue driving that narrative.

    Parent

    This is the most sexist crap yet to... (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:22:03 PM EST
    ...come out of the Obama camp. Disgusting.

    Parent
    Remember Prof. Irwin Corey? (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by magisterludi on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:22:23 PM EST
    Godwin looks just like him. I cannot take him seriously. He's a smug-ugly little man.

    Parent
    I got a great email yesterday (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:20:53 PM EST
    from the Obama campaign. I stayed on the list after emailing a criticism to his campaign just to see what they were up to.

    They want people to give them suggestions on how to handle the campaign going forward.

    I'm going to respond with some very strong points about sexism, taking responsibility for himself, etc. Civil, crafted words that won't come across as screaming :)

    Here's the link to submit suggestions for anyone who might have something to say to his campaign managers.

    Parent

    I've been getting mailings from him (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by Shainzona on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:36:31 PM EST
    asking for $$ - the DNC must have given him my address....but what they failed to tell him is that I have unscribed from the DNC and re-registered as an indy.

    Anyway, all of my BO responses are short and to the point.  GO TO HELL (with NObama written all over the outside of the envelope.)  Then I mail it back in his pre-paid envelope.

    HA - hope I get 10,000 more!!!

    Parent

    I hope the DNC also gave Hillary their (5.00 / 0) (#136)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:37:57 PM EST
    address lists.

    Parent
    Yup. She's been Lady Macbeth since the 90s (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by kempis on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:35:33 PM EST
    That's the way the GOP portrayed her through Rush Limbaugh and other Foghorn Leghorn-like mouthpieces.

    Funny how the Obama campaign has just piggybacked on the  caricature of Evil Hillary laid down by the Vast Rightwing Conspiracy during the 90s. Hillary is the scheming, evil, ambitious wife. Bleah....It was revolting enough when it came from the right, but to see alleged Democrats ('scuse me, progressives)spout the same, hateful, unhinged slanders has been too much.

    And maybe there was a method to the madness, to stick with Shakespeare a bit. I've wondered if the nomination process was a way to test Hillary's ability to overcome that Evil Hillary cartoon. After all, it's what the GOP would hurl at her. If so, she overcame it--and with working-class white voters, no less. That's no small accomplishment.

    Interestingly, the better-educated, more affluent, "creative class" types have been the ones to run around repeating old attack lines against Hillary from 1990s dittoheads. Revealing, isn't it?

     

    Parent

    Death threats (5.00 / 5) (#184)
    by Upstart Crow on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:14:33 PM EST
    When Keith Olberman suggested snuffing Hillary, there wasn't nearly this commotion.

    Parent
    McPeak, et al (none / 0) (#140)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:44:17 PM EST
    The Obama campaign had General McPeak on stage WITH Obama compare Bill Clinton to McCarthy. Obama's campaign has called both Clinton's race baiters and racists. Obama personally flipped off, fist thrusted, and brushed off Bill's dirty wife. Obama's campaign wrote a completely new story between the lines of Hillary's comments on June primaries using RFK as an example by claiming she was wishing he would be assassinated.

    Yep, no reason why Bill wouldn't want to give up the time he could be spending writing a $100M book on this whole fiasco, and giving Obama the time he could be spending giving $50,000 speeches on the value of respecting people.


    Parent

    WTF (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by lilburro on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:20:47 PM EST
    Oh and this is great:

    "Obama has an important bargaining chip which could tempt Bill Clinton into the fold. Friends say the former president is distressed by the rift in his relationship with the African-American community ... Campaigning for Obama would go a long way to restoring good relations. "

    I bet what would help party unity is not having Obama supporters BOO every time Clinton's name is mentioned.

    Parent

    God help the Clintons! (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by Josey on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:12:23 PM EST
    if they're ever caught choosing vanilla ice cream and not chocolate!
    Oh my!!


    Parent
    Obama has a problem with reality (5.00 / 4) (#106)
    by Lisa on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:34:37 PM EST
    He thinks you can just SAY someone has a problem and it's real.

    Both Clintons have worked throughout their careers for equal rights for all.  They've got nothing to prove to anyone.

    As the one wise minister in the NYT article said, just keep on doing what they've always been doing is fine.


    Parent

    Hmmmm (none / 0) (#113)
    by tek on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:41:03 PM EST
    Same problem Dubya has.

    Parent
    So am I, creeped out by all of this (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Brookhaven on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:27:34 PM EST
    How people cannot see that this swooning over Obama is nothing but a cult for many of his supporters.  Those of his supporters who seek out such a person for affirmation and to quell their need or hunger for something better than what they have and they seek it in another person instead of in themselves.  This is dangerous in and of itself without being wedded to politics.  

    But, when these people fulfill this lack in themselves by hooking onto and worshipping someone who will become POTUS that is where such a movement seriously needs to be examined because there is an unexploded bomb here ready to be tossed at our democracy.  Because it threatens our already weakened democracy which has suffered sucker punches for years especially after what happened in Florida in 2000 and continuing on through this primary season.  How the Forth Estate has betrayed their duty by being the overseers of abuses of governmental power and have mostly not done their job except to do the job they weren't meant to or should ever do: chose our Dem nonimee and even declare him the winner.   Our democracy is in a downward spiral here and I don't hear many people speaking out about this.  

    And, all of this needy and mindless worship of Obama feeds right into his need to satisfy his Elmer Gantry ruse.  It's a symbiotic relationship of need and exploitation for power and his own huge ego.  It's like he's become America in his head and in many of the heads of his supporters and anyone who says "No, you cannot" is the enemy or tossed aside as unworthy and nonexistent.  The cruel irony of this will be that the Elmer Gantry worshippers serve one purpose to blindly help him get his power and keep him there.  He has no feelings for these people either and will toss them aside as so much rubish just like the rest of us once he's got what he wants.  

    So, yes, I'm creeped out by all of this because of what I see as a threat to our already weakened democracy.

    Parent

    That's actually pretty damn funny. (5.00 / 4) (#63)
    by MarkL on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:39:07 PM EST
    Maybe Obama should just stop campaigning and let Bill do the heavy lifting.

    Parent
    Compare with this article (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by lilburro on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:45:37 PM EST
    that I stole from correntewire (thanks vastleft!)

    Clinton and NY

    "Benjamin said: 'I was pretty much appalled when supporters said one of her options was to run for governor. We have a governor. He's a black Democrat. It's not wise for them to challenge a black Democrat for governor.

    'She should have come out and said a flat no, that folks were wrong, but I did not see that or hear that coming from her.'"

    WTF?  So Clinton's not allowed to run for governor if she wanted to?  Will anyone deem her the RIGHT to run for dogcatcher?

    On the other hand (same article):

    "'There are wounds, but I don't think they necessarily have to be that deep," Miller said. "They're deep wounds for people who never liked Hillary in the first place.'"

    Wow.  Nobody has clean hands here (considering the smears in the SC memo and Barack Obama's blaming of the Drudge photo leak on Hillary in MS).  But I guess Obama doesn't need to do j*ck despite dragging the Clintons through the mud, and everyone must worship the unity pony.

    Unreal.

    Parent

    the wise man in the article said this (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Lisa on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:38:04 PM EST
    The Rev. Clinton Miller of Brown Memorial Baptist Church in Brooklyn said that any hurt feelings left by the campaign could be easily overcome.

    "There are wounds, but I don't think they necessarily have to be that deep," Miller said. "They're deep wounds for people who never liked Hillary in the first place."...

    "For her to heal those wounds, she would be well served either in public office or just in her private life by being herself and working toward those ideals that she's always espoused as a person."

    NYT

    Parent

    I don't see him as wise at all (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Cream City on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:29:56 PM EST
    because he is buying into the meme that Clinton created the wounds.

    I would like to know what this good reverend is going to do to get his flock to see how much damage has been done to the fight against real racism by all the tossing around of charges of faux racism.

    For this good reverend to heal those wounds that have been inflicted on many of us, he would be well served to contemplate working toward the ideals of real civil rights leaders.  He doesn't sound like one of them.

    Parent

    Cream (5.00 / 3) (#166)
    by Kathy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:41:19 PM EST
    I am with you.  All of these articles that start with the basic premise that it is understood that everyone in the world hates Hillary Clinton are getting really tired.

    Parent
    Burton.... (5.00 / 4) (#81)
    by p lukasiak on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:54:56 PM EST
    Burton was the guy who gave the Obama campaign's official blessing to call Clinton racists.

    When the original "LBJ/MLK" controversy started breaking, Bill Gray, former Congressman and head of the United Negro College Fund for 19 years, said it was "outrageous" that anyone would suggest that Clinton was in any way denigrating or discounting King's accomplishments.  When the Obama campaign was asked about what Gray had said, Burton answered with a "No Comment...But people have a right to make up their own minds."

    In other words, the official spokesman of the Obama campaign said it was perfectly okay as far a Obama was concerned for people to say that Hillary Clinton had trashed the memory of Dr. Martin Luther King.

    Parent

    Yep. (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by lilburro on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:01:20 PM EST
    That's some low sh*t.

    I personally can't get over the b.s. in the SC race memo.  BILL WOULD SUPPORT HILLARY OVER NELSON MANDELA!  Oh!  The horror!

    Parent

    Bill Burton needs a female advisor (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by catfish on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:36:49 PM EST
    to filter for offensive things like this. Now it's up to the man in Hillary's life to do this. Do they not see how they are repelling women with statements like this?

    Parent
    Honestly, the obama camp must reside in an (none / 0) (#103)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:33:04 PM EST
    alternate universe from the rest of us...

    Parent
    BTD is back at the end of the comments (none / 0) (#160)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:35:18 PM EST
    British Times says... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by porcorosso on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:41:28 PM EST
    ... 'Hillary, Cherie, don't men hate'em??'

    a great article by Janice Turner, spot on :

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/janice_turner/article3994855.ece

    A snippet of her eye-opening comparison:

    It's dangerous for an outspoken woman in public. They'll be shot down from all angles
    Janice Turner

    My head was in the backwash when the thought hit me: what woman would want to enter public life? My 9.30am appointment with André, Cherie Blair's hairdresser, was by no means his first. At 7.30am he'd made a house call. Emergency blow-dry for a business woman facing a board meeting. While her male colleagues were swiping the snooze button, she was up being crimped and coiffed.

    Throughout the day, women lawyers and corporate PRs, politicians and financiers swoop into Mayfair for half-hour, twice-weekly pit stops. I'd bet many lie about their whereabouts. Good grooming must appear effortless. Otherwise you risk being dubbed vain or high maintenance or classed with rich men's work-shy wastrel wives. But André with his flattery and deft fingers is no mere indulgence: he is arming them for battle. Only beneath an impeccable, heat-sealed helmet are these women safe from reproach.

    Go Times!!!

    UGH (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Kathy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:08:18 PM EST
    Maybe it's a sign of progress that Hillary hasn't received as many death threats as the vice-presidential candidate Geraldine Ferraro in 1984 when the Secret Service insisted she campaign in a bulletproof vest.

    How quickly we forget.

    Parent

    I would be shocked if (5.00 / 0) (#143)
    by bjorn on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:55:39 PM EST
    Clinton had not received more death threats than Ferraro.  It wouldn't even surprise me if she has recd more than Obama.  

    Parent
    She was the first First Lady (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by Kathy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:48:40 PM EST
    to have a 'safe room' in the White House separate from family quarters.

    I know of two serious threats on her life when she was traveling (through friends close to the administration).  One of them was in Beijing, and they had to  evacuate the hotel in the middle of the night because, apparently, someone on the hotel staff was connected with the conspiracy.

    Parent

    Dick Durbin on Face the Nation (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:53:09 PM EST
    this morning was up against Lindsey Graham. Graham pointed out Obama's stand on the war was uniformed through his 2.5 years since going to Iraq, and his refusal to meet face-to-face with General Petraeus. Durbin defended Obama by saying he has questioned Petraues in committee, and that he and Obama worked very hard helping a few veterans. Unfortunately, Graham didn't have time to respond.

    We all saw Obama question Petraeus in committee. He was given preferential position because he needed to leave the committee meeting early, and his question was ridiculous. It also seems the senior Senators are going to loan Obama their experience since he doesn't have any of his own.

    I hope this guy gets vetted well enough by the Republicans over the summer to knock him out in August.


    And, not only was he given (5.00 / 0) (#54)
    by zfran on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:31:21 PM EST
    preferential treatment during that hearing, I believe he took all the time he needed, exceeding the other Senator's time restriction. P-l-e-e-z-e!
     

    Parent
    Hillary Write-Ins In November (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by JimWash08 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:01:44 PM EST
    In the event that Hillary is not the Democratic nominee, I intend to write-in her name, because neither she nor anyone on the Clinton campaign could convince me to vote for Obama.**

    I've also noticed some here feel the same way and intend to write-in Hillary on their ballots.

    However, I urge everyone to check their respective state rules.

    If you're like me, and don't plan to endorse Obama, be sure your write-in vote doesn't automatically go to the "Democratic nominee" if write-ins are prohibited in your state.

    **Speaking for me only. Your vote is your right,
    whatever you choose to do with it.

    I have a block of people that (5.00 / 0) (#20)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:02:54 PM EST
    is looking into it.  I call it the Lysistrata vote.  We don't have to join in the "party".  

    Parent
    I got an e-mail last night (none / 0) (#32)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:16:58 PM EST
    from my co-moderator of a Hillary LJ community, who is pushing for her to run as an Independent.  I told him that I really don't think she would (good Dem that she is) but that I will help in any way I can.

    Parent
    Write-in neither (none / 0) (#47)
    by waldenpond on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:25:51 PM EST
    Clinton wouldn't do the paperwork to be a write-in either.  (Most states require it)  States won't even recognize the votes so there would be no count.  We would never know how many chose to make that particular statement.  I will just leave that blank.  

    I doubt statistics after the fact will show any differences between those that left the top blank versus those that didn't vote down ticket.  

    No offense to anyone, but I haven't seen any data to indicate the new voters have voted down ticket.  I imagine if it was happening, the media would be touting it as an Obama accomplishment.

    Parent

    we can always register as write in candidates... (5.00 / 0) (#83)
    by p lukasiak on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:57:39 PM EST
    In those states which require that "write in" candidates be "official" candidates, why don't we just get one person in each state to sign up as a write in candidate for the "Hillary Party" ;-)

    Parent
    Hillary Party (5.00 / 0) (#130)
    by waldenpond on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:10:17 PM EST
    I have no idea how to start an official party, but it apparently takes very few signatures to get on the ballot as a write-in though it does have to be a legal name.  It seems there must be some enthusiastic person out there willing to change their name (a couple hundred bucks and run the change in the legal notices in the paper) to Hillary S. Party.  Fun stuff. :)

    Parent
    There's a Hillary LJ comm? (none / 0) (#51)
    by janarchy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:28:58 PM EST
    Name, please? I haven't been able to find one and my flist is crawling with Obamabots!

    Parent
    There is indeed (5.00 / 0) (#60)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:35:11 PM EST
    clinton_2008

    I became a co-mod sort of accidentally.  You have to be approved b/c we don't want Obama trolls, but if you apply, I will approve you!

    Best part of the comm is, there are a lot of young women who view Hillary as an inspirational figure.  =)

    Parent

    I just joined (5.00 / 0) (#76)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:48:13 PM EST
    as HillGrrl.  Could you approve me too?

    Parent
    Done! (none / 0) (#90)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:10:27 PM EST
    I'm (none / 0) (#120)
    by janarchy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:51:18 PM EST
    Ragdoll. Am running to join now! I solemnly swear I am not an Obamabot! :-)

    Parent
    LOL (none / 0) (#123)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:57:54 PM EST
    I just approved you.  Wow, you've got a big f-list.

    Parent
    Hee! (5.00 / 0) (#125)
    by janarchy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:02:45 PM EST
    It's what I get for being on LJ for 7 1/2 years, being in 'fandom" (sorta kinda) and then having some real life friends involved. Of course, it's gotten smaller lately -- I've already defriended a bunch of people for obnoxious Kool-Aid drinking screeds. My fave was the supposedly progressive man (who I'd known from my earliest days on LJ and thought was sane) who went on a whole 'WWTSBJQ'/there is no sexism involved rant after admitting that he hadn't actually been reading blogs, watching the MSM or paying attention, but he KNEW. Sadly, his girlfriend is an "I love Obama" cultist. So they're both gone. It was hard to do -- I'd actually met them a few years ago while I was in Chicago. But I've got no more tolerance for either kind of Group Think. Especially after there was a huge blowup over a fanfic group that I co-mod over supposed racism (it was an early clue to the new direction of How One Must Think On the Net).

    It's bad enough several friends occasionally will just burst out with random "I love BO so much!" commentary with no backing statements or explanation.

    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#131)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:18:34 PM EST
    I've been in fandom for a few years myself - six to be precise.  I've also met quite a few of the folks on my f-list.  I live in NYC and people do tend to come here for events and such.

    Fanfic wank is the worst!  I could write a book about it.  

    My f-list is probably mostly pro-Obama, but they're pretty low-key.  I've only defriended one person so far, b/c she made an annoying anti-Hillary post.  I find the Hillary supporters tend to be quieter.  

    Parent

    Oh, fandom... (5.00 / 0) (#133)
    by janarchy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:26:35 PM EST
    I've been in and out of assorted fandoms for about 30 years. This was a huge mess which got wanked and sadly is still being dredged up every time some PC b.s. thing comes up. It's depressing, but we slog on. I could write a book on it but I'd probably be hung, drawn and quartered for daring to question the Group Think. Oh well, what can ya do?

    I'm out on the Island -- most of my friends are far flung so I don't get to see them much. The political thing is making things tense too. Sadly, most are not so low key which is frustrating since I've been finding myself self-censoring rather than fighting with yet someone else. It's the screeds that get to me, esp when it's the same propaganda over n over. I had one person I defriended about 6 months ago since the Obamalove was scary. Non-stop unending prosletyzing. Apparently he WAS the one she was waiting for. Her choice but not mine. I'm not big on religious fervour of any flavour!

    Parent

    It's sad (none / 0) (#138)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:41:39 PM EST
    and it goes to show how deep the divisions are in the Democratic Party.  My first fandom was the QAF fandom, which was one of the wankiest of all.  Small fandom, but extremely nutty, full of straight women masquerading as gay men to get cred.  Needless to say, it's an extremely liberal fandom, very concerned with gay rights.  Back in 2004, there was not a soul on my f-list who supported Bush.

    In 2005, I got into the Anderson Cooper fandom (after Hurricane Katrina) and in fact still moderate an AC LJ comm but it's so full of Obama supporters, I can barely stand it anymore. We used to have fun political discussions and live thread debates and elections, but not anymore.  My co-mod and I are Hillary supporters, but most of the community are Obama supporters.  And it's just unbelievable, because a lot of these people consider themselves news and politics junkies (i.e,., they watch CNN all day) but they are totally clueless about the manipulations of the MSM.  

    If you've been into fandom for 30 years, were you by any chance a Trekkie?  I have a friend who was one of the original slash fic writers for Star Trek, way back in the era of fanzines.

    Parent

    LOL (none / 0) (#142)
    by janarchy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:55:23 PM EST
    The answer is yes. My first fandom was the original Star Trek, back when I was a teenager. One of my friends from back then is still really into the fandom, esp the K/S part of it. I'm not much of a slasher in any fandom, which makes me kind of an anomaly. (Oddly enough, I'm not against canon gay relationships at all but to me slashing Kirk/Spock is as unlikely as Emmett/Melanie...)

    I actually used to do 'zines back in the day. My big fandoms were: Quantum Leap, Robin of Sherwood, Man from UNCLE and original Dr. Who. I still write fic (mostly Harry Potter which is where the insane wank occured although mostly, we wound up with a lot of people not even in the fandom attacking us without knowing any of the actual facts -- sound familiar?), and lurk in Dr Who, Torchwood, Lost, and Battlestar Galactica circles.

    I used to be involved with a number of LJ progressive circles but it just got to be exhausting. I wasn't leftist enough for most of them and that was before the primary season. I still had some friends who were anti-war and anti-Bush but I can't talk to them anymore since I'm one of those supporters of the scary monster lady, the assassin! (There was some faux outrage yesterday that had me tearing my hair out) It's so nice to know there ARE some kindred spirits out there. Feel free to friend me personally -- things have been quiet in my journal lately, mostly because I'm just so tired of wankery from a number of directions that I can't be bothered to discuss much other than what I'm reading or watching on tv. :-p

    Parent

    Friending you as I type this (none / 0) (#144)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:05:41 PM EST
    so we can continue this discussion.  I haven't been posting much on my own LJ recently either, b/c I don't feel like getting into a war.  

    OMG, I loved Man From Uncle but I was so young and there were no Internets back then.

    LOL @ Harry Potter.  How many times has that fandom made it onto Fandom Wank?  Hee!  I commend your bravery.  That fandom is not for the faint of heart.

    I'm into Supernatural, The Office, Mad Men, 30 Rock and Ugly Betty - but not really into the fandoms per se.  I guess I'm just a Hillary fangurl these days.

    Parent

    And friended back. (none / 0) (#149)
    by janarchy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:16:06 PM EST
    I tend to be fannish but not Part Of The Fandom in terms of HP. I can't deal with the wankery or the insanity that seems to crop up daily. I personally loathe f-w for just existing -- they're the fannish equivalent of DK right now.

    I got into MFU in the late 80s, early 90s. My best friend (a now scary Obama supporter, sadly -- she is a Hillary Hater from way back...) was into it and I followed suit. I wound up meeting my now-ex through it as well. I just bought the first season dvd set but haven't had a chance to watch. It's so much fun though.

    I'm a Hillary fangurl as well. Just have been quiet about it since I seem to be in the minority and can't stand all the vitriol.

    Parent

    I'd like to be approved to (none / 0) (#185)
    by feet on earth on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:14:45 PM EST
    Should I sent an email first?

    Parent
    No need to (none / 0) (#199)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:57:37 PM EST
    Do you have an LJ account?  Just go to the link I posted above and click on the link to join.

    Parent
    I just joined also. (none / 0) (#137)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:39:51 PM EST
    Oh good! (none / 0) (#139)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:42:02 PM EST
    I like you.  =)

    Parent
    rightbackatcha stilllife....let's proceed to (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:18:42 PM EST
    change the world... :)

    Parent
    Ditto (none / 0) (#115)
    by tek on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:42:58 PM EST
    How is this not a copyright (5.00 / 0) (#39)
    by kredwyn on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:20:53 PM EST
    violation?

    Obama Golf: The New Game Sensation! (5.00 / 0) (#87)
    by lambertstrether on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:07:43 PM EST
    The rules are simple, and any number can play: To win, change an innocuous Hillary statement into a wankfest-worthy statement in the fewest number of strokes:

    Hillary says "We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California."

    1. "Assassinated"

    2. Black leaders have been assassinated

    3. Obama is a black leader

    4. She was talking about assassinating Obama

    Three strokes, total. ("Teeing up" the initial trigger word does not count as a stroke).

    It's fun for the whole family!

    2nd hole (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by lilburro on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:34:36 PM EST
    now this is a tricky one.

    "I mean, you don't believe that Senator Obama is a Muslim.

    SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: Of course not. I mean, that's, you know--there is no basis for that. You know, I take him on the basis of what he says. And, you know, there isn't any reason to doubt that.

    STEVE CROFT: You said you take Senator Obama at his word that he's not a Muslim.

    SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: Right, right.

    STEVE CROFT: You don't believe he's a Muslim.

    SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: No, no. Why would I? There's no--

    STEVE CROFT: Or imply, right?

    SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: No, there is nothing to base that on, as far as I know.

    STEVE CROFT: It's just scurillous--

    SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumors that I have a great deal of sympathy for anybody who gets, you know, smeared with the kind of rumors that go on all the time. "

    No!
    No!
    No!
    No!
    No!
    No!
    As far as I know.

    1.  "As far as I know."
    2.  Hillary doesn't know, even though she believes Obama is not a Muslim and has no reason to believe he is a Muslim and has said he is not a Muslim seven times already.
    3.  But Hillary knows how Vince Foster died, because she killed him, so how could she not know this?
    4.  Hillary is lying because she lies and she believes Obama is a Muslim.

    Boy, even though I had to go through seven tubes and over an incredible chasm of common sense, I still made it in three strokes!


    Parent
    LOL--beautiful! (none / 0) (#167)
    by kempis on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:41:27 PM EST
    OT (none / 0) (#99)
    by Step Beyond on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:26:57 PM EST
    I've tried to register at Corrente but it hasn't activated yet. Can you check to see if there is a problem? Same user name as here. Thanks.

    Parent
    We've moved past that so (none / 0) (#196)
    by Jeralyn on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:32:37 PM EST
    readers should go to Corrente if they want to talk about RFK.

    Parent
    It's not her strategy (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:26:18 PM EST
    It is, however, a very large part of how Obama has diminished his image as distinquished enough to undo what the current empty suit has done to the country. The sexism of this primary will be a major topic of pundit ping pong for many years to come. Are you trying to pretend it isn't happening?

    Clinton supporters is part of the Clinton campaign stategy. Her base, the most passionate white women over 50 and older identify with Hillary, her philandering husband, squashed ambitions, lost dreams and being upstaged by a young male senator. All those unanswered slights in their lives has turned into Hillary support because many of the older white women see Hillary as their avenger.

    You clearly are not a white woman over 50 or you would know how completely off-base you are.


    balderdash! (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by hilldemgoneindie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:44:21 PM EST
    i heard that bull on the network gabfests this morning with the consensus that hillary's "complaining" about the sexism in this race is making her sound like a whinner. a terrible way for her to "end" her campaign.

    first of all, she's not ending her campaign any time soon.

    second of all, she's not complaining, she's stating a fact.

    third, she has not screamed sexism at every turn as obama has about racism - even though if she had, they would have been far more legitimate claims than his BOGUS claims of racism.

    it is her supporters who are screaming about the blatant sexism and misogyny that abounds and offends our sensibilities to the core. we not only have noticed, but we have taken copious notes and will not EVER forget. the dnc, the msm, and the obama supporters are clueless regarding the smoldering tinder of fury that is about to erupt into a roaring blaze they will not soon forget.

    Sunday, bloody Sunday. (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:11:50 PM EST
    The Sunday talk shows are still vilifying Hillary for the passing remark she made about RFK two days ago.

    They are not moved by the fact that, within an hour or so of Senator Clinton's remark, RFK Jr. had issued a response saying the remark itself was inoffensive and people should not take offense to it. Nor are they moved by the fact that Senator Clinton immediately apologized for any upset she may have caused.

    The bobble-heads do not find it at all inappropriate that the Obama campaign added fuel to the fire by suggesting that Hillary's remark insulted the memory of RFK and posed an enhanced threat of assassination for Obama.

    Likewise, they find nothing problematic about Obama waiting a full day before he roused himself from his ring-side seat and made a passive-agresssive, self-serving statement that characterized Senator Clinton's remarks thusly:


    "I have learned that when you are campaigning ...sometimes you get careless in terms of the statements that you make...[meaning that I, Obama must now be excused for every careless thing I've ever said throughout this campaign]...Senator Clinton says that she did not intend any offense by it and I will take her at her word on that...[meaning you must now take my word that I intended no offense for every offensive thing I've ever said throughout this campaign]."

    Obama had NOTHING to say to his supporters and the pundits who have spent the past two days ASSASSINATING THE CHARACTER OF SENATOR CLINTON. No words of condemnation for them; no recommendation that they apologize to her; no expression of sympathy or regret for what she has been put through. No concern for the physical harm that might befall HER if his henchmen continue in this manner. No regret from him that he waited so long to come forward; no regret that his campaign was in error when they rushed to judgment.

    Is this the kind of comportment one would expect from a man who presumes to become our next Commander in Chief? If this is the way he escalates a non-conflict with a fellow Democratic contender, just think what he can do for the Middle East. Good times.


    This is why I just can't vote for this guy. (none / 0) (#150)
    by masslib on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:19:56 PM EST
    He's too narcassistic.  It's bad for the country.  She didn't apologize to him.  She apologized to the Kennedys.  She was relating to RFK, NOT comparing him to Obama.

    Parent
    key-rist (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by Kathy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:29:10 PM EST
    Senator Clinton says that she did not intend any offense by it and I will take her at her word on that

    How many freakin' times has he said he'll take her word on something, then turned around and kept trying to nail her on it?

    Parent

    She wasn't even talking to him. (5.00 / 3) (#159)
    by masslib on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:31:02 PM EST
    His ego is bigger than the Grand Canyon.

    Parent
    I am not an old white woman (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by Manuel on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:26:57 PM EST
    nor do I give a hoot about Bill CLinton's philandering (when Clinton lied nobody died).  I do, however, have a strong belief in fairness and experience.  The media including Obama blogs and many of his supporters are lacking in the first.  Obama is lacking in the second.

    About "outraged" Clinton supporters (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:27:08 PM EST
    If you know anything about me, you would know I will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS say what I think and I do not care who is offended. Obama supporters already hate me for this and now some of you Clinton supporters can join that club.

    I could not care less.

    I have never written to make friends. I call them as I see them and that is what I will KEEP doing.

    I like your posts, BTD (and I'm not (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by zfran on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:35:23 PM EST
    pandering). I agree that you do not bend, much however, your posts and Jeralyns keep things hopping and interesting. So, I say thank you.

    Parent
    x (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Mary Mary on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:42:58 PM EST
    You know, calling it as you see it isn't the problem. It's phrasing it as you phrase it! Do you not have a tactful bone in your body? :-)


    Parent
    No (5.00 / 2) (#177)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:53:57 PM EST
    Judging by the reactions to his comments (none / 0) (#172)
    by zfran on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:47:33 PM EST
    I'd say BTD is somewhat tactful, full of opinions, probably very loyal, and sometimes sensible. There is wiggle room evidenced in the other thread about not liking how Obama, thus far, is handling the FL/MI situation. How far can party loyalty push you?  

    Parent
    BTD, welcome back :-) (none / 0) (#165)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:40:54 PM EST
    I missed whatever flap was going on earlier. Is your new comment referring to my post in any way? Enough about me, what do you think about me?

    Parent
    Well..... (none / 0) (#179)
    by MichaelGale on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:57:25 PM EST
    I am leaving the thread until you apologize.

    I am not a cultist nor do I accept an owner of a thread telling me I am despised as a Clinton supporter.

    If anyone is a cultist, it is those who repeat the mantra...party first over principles and beliefs.

    Goodbye.

    Parent

    do whatcha feel (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:18:16 PM EST
    But I did not say that Clinton supporters are cultists so I will not apologize for something I did not say.

    In fact, I will not respond to you again until you apologize for lying about me.

    Parent

    What is troubling to me is not that (none / 0) (#180)
    by Valhalla on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:57:55 PM EST
    you say what you think.  No one's called for you to stop writing.  It's that it looks like you've gone over the line to calling people names and talking about despising just because they don't agree with you.  The reference to 'outraged' in your subj line sounds off, it's imputing some sort of irrational, discountable emotion to the people who just don't agree with you.

    I've read a lot of your posts and I read every one of the posts in the last thread.  The greatest weight of them that disagree with you were written with reason, and some with great passion, but few were flip offs to you.  Some were, of course, but is it only those you refer to when you say 'outraged'?

    I'm just not sure who you're talking about here, who's outraged, and who's defying you to stop writing, who's despicable exactly (and if everyone who does not want to vote for BO is despicable then why, exactly).

    If that's not who you're talking about, just forget all of the above.

    Parent

    Then you have not read me (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:16:19 PM EST
    I have said what I think, and if I despise what someone is doing,I have said that too.

    I have not changed. You folks just did not like what I said.

    that is a fact.

    Parent

    Sounds good to me (none / 0) (#203)
    by RalphB on Sun May 25, 2008 at 06:39:19 PM EST
    you've certainly got a right to your views and to express them.  Have at it.


    Parent
    jane1's comment (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by Jeralyn on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:03:36 PM EST
    was over the top and a personal attack on the Clintons and has been deleted.

    It's gorgeous outside... (none / 0) (#1)
    by kredwyn on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:22:24 PM EST
    Off to the hardware store I go.

    Weather Is Terrible Here In St. Louis (none / 0) (#21)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:03:12 PM EST
    Drenching rain accompanied by lightning and thunder. No picnics for us today.

    Parent
    I got back and mucked around (none / 0) (#33)
    by kredwyn on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:18:36 PM EST
    with the hoses. At one point, my sunglasses fell off and I realized that the MD sky/light ratio is as bright/clear at it was when I was living in TX.

    ::gleep::

    Parent

    Here in Seattle (none / 0) (#56)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:32:22 PM EST
    we're having what I call "dog pant weather".  Go outside and it feels like a dog is panting its hot moist breath on your bare leg, but you feel it over your whole body.

    Muggy, about 70-something, can barely breathe.

    My plants are loving it though, it's perfect for them!  

    Parent

    Huh? (none / 0) (#186)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:15:35 PM EST
    I'm in Redmond, and it's been beautiful blue skies, hot, but not muggy, all day.


    Parent
    Outrageous (none / 0) (#22)
    by chopper on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:03:47 PM EST

    Listen to this audio and be outraged about the caucuses and delegates.

    http://www.bartcop.com/141-bombshell-sample.m3u



    OK, this is an open thread, right? (none / 0) (#23)
    by Upstart Crow on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:05:23 PM EST
    I'd really like someone to explain to me why no one has addressed this issue in the campaign.  From a New York Sun article in January:

    http://www2.nysun.com/opinion/kenya-connection/

    I know some flake websites have addressed this -- but it's disappeared from the media completely.

    I think it's important.  This says a lot more about BHO's "foreign policy experience" than his childhood years in Indonesia.

    If a U.S. senator was using the prestige of his position to promote one side in a heavily tribal election in Kenya ... shouldn't the government care?  Shouldn't the voters care?

    Really, maybe there's something I'm missing.  Would someone please explain this?

    the new york sun (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by Jeralyn on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:17:18 PM EST
    is a right wing paper.

    Parent
    Don't worry (none / 0) (#27)
    by Kathy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:12:43 PM EST
    you'll hear plenty about it IF Obama is given the nomination.

    This has been bandied about republican sites for eons, and there is even more "there" there than the article you cite.

    Parent

    "given" (none / 0) (#40)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:21:19 PM EST
    being the operative word.

    Parent
    question (none / 0) (#67)
    by katiebird on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:40:38 PM EST
    Kathy,
    Could you send me an email? katiebird@gmail.com

    Parent
    I posted something from NoQuarter the (none / 0) (#124)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:00:06 PM EST
    other day...odinga has banned christian broadcasts in Kenya, among other things...and I definitely think it would not look good for a senator, much less a president, to have those kinds of ties....let's see how long before obama gets knocked off the Free Pass Express...

    Parent
    Go. Read. Incredibly good arguments. (none / 0) (#30)
    by Shainzona on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:16:24 PM EST
    And print it out and send it to every SD you can find!

    http://www.correntewire.com/blog/paul_lukasiak

    If you are going to send things to the SD's (none / 0) (#193)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:21:42 PM EST
    my thought is to let them know this is the information voters are using to make their choices from.

    They've been innudated with citizens trying to tell them who to support, and they are probably immune to them now.

    I point out that I'm using this information as valuable toward my selection of the right person to vote for as president, and that I've come to realize the importance of applying the superdelegate test to all Senators, Representatives and Governors I will be voting for in the future.

    They care more about how their choice will impact their own ability to stay in office than almost anything else.


    Parent

    Please use LINKS! Please do not fill the (none / 0) (#34)
    by Joan in VA on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:19:05 PM EST
    threads with these missives every day. Thanks!

    Like what? (none / 0) (#35)
    by Upstart Crow on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:19:21 PM EST
    I know there is an (apparently flakey) missionaries' letter quoted on some whack-job websites, and I know Odinga is now in some power-sharing coalition with Kenya's leadership (usually a precursor to a coup, but let's hope for the best) -- but I've blog-searched regularly and can't find anything reliable about wha' happened.

    In January, there was much ballyhoo about how Obama interrupted the New Hampshire primary for a phone call from Odinga, to whom he was apparently an advisor.  When the violence broke out in Kenya -- and I have no idea about how much Odinga was personally involved, but it appears to have been his followers -- Obama apparently consulted Condi and made a plea for peace on VOA.  This was reported in the mainstream media in January.
    Since January -- silence.

    What was his role there? What was his involvement in these elections? Apparently (according to one quasi-reliable blog -- was it No Quarter?) his face was on campaign posters. Huh? Is this appropriate behavior for a US senator?  Is it even true?

    There are also rumors he has dual citizenship?  Is there any chance that this is/was true?

    Again, there may be a reasonable explanation for all of this.  But what is it?

    Aren't they cousins or related somehow? (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Joan in VA on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:34:05 PM EST
    Odinga (none / 0) (#66)
    by Upstart Crow on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:40:30 PM EST
    claimed to be a cousin of Obama's, which Obama didn't initially deny.  Reports since have claimed that the word "cousin" is used much more loosely among Luo clans.  But this is all blog stuff, for the most part, nothing in the MSM.

    Parent
    The Repubs will put it (none / 0) (#62)
    by waldenpond on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:37:53 PM EST
    together if it's an issue.   Appearing on posters is not an ethics violation as far as I know.  I don't think dual citizenship matters either.  He is a US citizen.

    Parent
    Sounds off to me... (none / 0) (#70)
    by Upstart Crow on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:44:13 PM EST
    I don't know about "ethics violation," but I certainly don't like an American senator free-lancing this way.  Odinga (again, from blogs) seems to be a very questionable guy. I'm not sure we wish to be linked in any way to Kenya's massacres.

    As for dual citizenships, yes, I think it should be a question.  How much does he feel he owes each "homeland" -- what if the interests of each clash, which isn't a far-fetched possibility?

    My guess is that having a Kenya father automatically makes him a Kenya citizen, and he isn't a Kenya passport holder or anything.  But again, I'm piecing together my own explanations without any MSM info to help me out.

    Parent

    If you're watching Recount tonight, be sure (none / 0) (#44)
    by Joan in VA on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:24:47 PM EST
    to keep something soft nearby to throw at the t.v. You know you're going to want to!

    Socks pairs are good (none / 0) (#72)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:46:31 PM EST
    I started keeping them handy during the Reagan administration.

    Parent
    Who are your Superdelegates? (none / 0) (#53)
    by Valhalla on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:30:49 PM EST
    Have other folks seen this site?  I just found it. (I'm probably behind the times but figured I'd post anyway, since it's an open thread).

    Link

    You can find out who your state's SDs are, whether they've committed for or against the voters in their districts (if they have districts) and whether they've given money to either candidate.  I'm off to write to the only one related to my district who hasn't committed for Hillary.


    I wrote to one of mine...she is a former (none / 0) (#128)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:06:03 PM EST
    beauty queen, or something like that...never heard back from her asking why she backed obama when Hillary had won our state.

    Parent
    Beauty queen? (none / 0) (#134)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:30:08 PM EST
    This is why she's supporting Obama:

    I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some people out there in our nation don't have maps, and, uh, I believe that our education like such as in South Africa and, uh, the Iraq everywhere like, such as and I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., er, should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future for our children.

    Obama will help the Iraq!  He'll give them maps, yo!

    We have this running joke in my house (well, my son and I do) that whenever anybody does something idiotic, we say, "Probably an Obama supporter!"

    Parent

    Don't know her rationale...guessing it is (none / 0) (#192)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:20:44 PM EST
    something shalow....she hasn't bothered to respond.  Too busy putting on her make-up I guess.

    Parent
    Does anyone have the link (none / 0) (#58)
    by Step Beyond on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:32:59 PM EST
    to the source where the Obama campaign said that removing their name from the ballot in Michigan was above and beyond the pledge requirements? I know I've seen people post they said it (or something similar) but I've searched and can not find the source. My Google is weak.

    I want it for a diary so help is much appreciated. Thanks!

    Try the search option (none / 0) (#80)
    by waldenpond on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:54:07 PM EST
    here.  I found many posts/threads that address this issue.....
    link
    pledge not to campaign

    I typed in 'pledged not to campaign' since that is what the pledge was.

    Parent

    Thanks (none / 0) (#88)
    by Step Beyond on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:09:27 PM EST
    I tried a series of words but thanks to your post I see that I need to use phrases instead of a series of keywords. I'll try searching again here.

    Parent
    Not an election question (none / 0) (#82)
    by katiebird on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:57:28 PM EST
    I'm trying to find an affordable web editor.  I use dreamweaver at work, but it's out of my price range.

    I'd really appreciate suggestions.  I'm comfortable with hand-coding, but I like working in a graphic environment.

    (if this is way too off topic please delete -- but I'm feeling stumped so I thought I'd ask here)

    !! Thank you! (none / 0) (#97)
    by katiebird on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:25:57 PM EST
    Thank you so much -- this is great!

    Do you have personal experience with any -- as a starting point?

    Thanks again!

    Parent

    I know nothing (none / 0) (#118)
    by k on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:49:03 PM EST
    but my husband is a web designer and he just suggested this. He uses dreamweaver, too, which is why I asked him.

    Good luck.

    Parent

    Oh, Thanks! I tried that years ago (none / 0) (#141)
    by katiebird on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:45:47 PM EST
    But, I'll take a look at the modern version.  I'd completely forgotten about it.

    Parent
    Dick Martin dies at 86 (none / 0) (#86)
    by DandyTIger on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:05:22 PM EST
    passed away today at the age of 86. Here are a couple of posts about it at the LATimes here and here. The first link has a link to a fun youtube video.

    For those that don't remember or weren't there, Dick Martin along with Dan Rowan hosted a TV show called Laugh In in the 60's. It was the greatest, and was a major contributor to my permanent delinquency and strange sense of humor.

    If they were still around, I think they would be giving the Flying Fickle Finger of Fate award to one or more clowns at MSNBC. Most likely candidate would be the clown with his head furthest up his... um, well, you know, our very favorite KO. Sock it to him.

    Oh no! :-( (none / 0) (#122)
    by janarchy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:57:36 PM EST
    I loved "Laugh-in" as a kid. I would stay up and sneak into my parents bedroom to watch it when I was supposed to be asleep.

    Parent
    Want A Walnetto? (none / 0) (#129)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:07:36 PM EST
    Heh heh (none / 0) (#132)
    by stillife on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:25:48 PM EST
    Sock it to me, baby!

    Parent
    Come on Chris "Thrill up my leg" (none / 0) (#117)
    by Brookhaven on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:44:26 PM EST
    We know that's you!  You can fool some of your 100 viewers some of the time and most of your 100 viewers some of the time and even most of your 100 viewers most of the time but you cannot fool all 100 (and I think it's less than that but I'm feeling very generous this Sunday afternoon) of your viewers all of the time.  hee.

    Do you still get as much of a thrill every time you say this about HRC as much as that thrill that goes up your shapely calf when you see or hear the chosen one?  :)

    Wow.. I see BTD put his foot in his mouth again (none / 0) (#145)
    by Edgar08 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:08:22 PM EST
    Cultists, eh?

    We left Dkos.  We left Mydd.  We left TPM.

    TL is just another blog at the end of the day.

    I shall not return to his thread, (none / 0) (#151)
    by Molly Pitcher on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:22:58 PM EST
    and how long that will hold, I cannot tell.  The word 'despise' is the one that sent me away.  I won't go back to see where the 'cultist' came from.  

    Parent
    It's my opinion (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by Kathy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:36:23 PM EST
    that he wasn't referring to everyone when he said cultists.  Just the blind followers.

    The "despised" I had a problem with, for reasons I stated.  It's not very unifying, and he's not going to persuade anyone to change their minds by insulting them.   It seems the exact opposite message that BTD sends to Obama supporters, but maybe yelling at clouds all day has given him a headache.

    Parent

    BTD's balance and objectivity (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by Edgar08 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:05:21 PM EST
    are a contrivance.  He knows full well this was always about purging the Clinton wing of the party.  He knows the vitriol.  

    Any comparison between that and what now amounts to a counter-movement of sorts can exist to a certain degree, because we now do hate Obama just as much as they hate Clinton.

    But, what I've pointed out before, and what I will continue to point out, is that there was no animus on the part of the Clinton wing towards Obama to start with.  It was never there.  I, for one, was more often than not, in a position to defend Obama from the "gate crashers" that have now embraced him.

    There was obviously a lot of animus towards the Clintons from what is now called the Obama wing.

    To put it as blunt as possible, they started it, Obama actually criticized it a long time ago,

    link

     but now Obama has embraced it.   And now Obama OWNS it.

    The only way he can fix it is to throw the "gate crashers" under the bus.  And even then, it's not a given.


    Parent

    I think what galls me the most (none / 0) (#146)
    by masslib on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:10:15 PM EST
    is the notion that Obama has the best and only case for the nomination.  That simply isn't true.  Hillary has on the past three months of the process, the big electorals, the swing states and the swing groups.  Polls also show she is best positioned to win.  And, she has the best resume for the job.  

    I don't know, gut says not yet. (none / 0) (#156)
    by Edgar08 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:28:04 PM EST
    But the break is happening.

    We'll be asked to take our seats soon and give Barack polite applause.

    I could give applause. (none / 0) (#171)
    by LoisInCo on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:47:33 PM EST
    Especially if you remember the SNL skit " the sarcastic clapping family".

    Parent
    As soon as the thread fills, I may (none / 0) (#168)
    by MarkL on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:42:33 PM EST
    go outside.. would seem like a waste of a good opportunity to go outside before then.

    Tech Question (none / 0) (#175)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:50:18 PM EST
    I seem to have disabled that rating circle option at the bottom of my comments today (i.e. #147). How do I fix that?

    It's been deleted (none / 0) (#191)
    by Jeralyn on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:18:51 PM EST
    You cannot reprint articles in their entirety here. This space is for comments. You can link correctly and quote a paragraph or two at most and put your thoughts on it.

    msbluecow (none / 0) (#195)
    by Jeralyn on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:31:33 PM EST
    is over limit for today and violated numerous rules from reprinting full articles to overly long urls that skewed the site. S/he is suspended.

    Jeralyn? (none / 0) (#204)
    by Cate on Sun May 25, 2008 at 07:42:27 PM EST
    I really enjoy your posts and your responses to comments. Your articles on TalkLeft have become important to me. However, your contributer, BTD, leaves me feeling - believe it or not - afraid to disagree with him. He acts like he has the ultimate power over us! And, his contined insistence that Obama will win is hard to take but to be insulted for seeing it otherwise is more than I have to take. If I wanted that, I'd go back to Kos.

    I just felt I needed to say this, sorry to criticize.

    To Jeralyn (none / 0) (#205)
    by Upstart Crow on Sun May 25, 2008 at 07:45:32 PM EST
    Above (I can't seem to post a reply), you commented vis my referencing the New York Sun, that it is a right-wing paper.

    I don't know the Sun, except that they have a top-notch literary critic, but why would that negate everything that they write?

    The MSM has repressed and withheld so much news in this election ... I actually have turned to some of the right-wing press to find out what's going on. Frankly, they are the only ones who don't seem in HBO's pocket.

    Shouldn't the arguments of a columnist be considered on their own merits, and not on the basis of whether a paper is right-wing or left-wing?

    One thing I've learned the hard way: truth is on neither side, but occasionally on one or the other.

    (I, for one, don't like the columnist's referencing the fabled "War on Terror" at the end. And the website he mentions seems to be a whack job.  But I'd still like to know what HBO was doing in Kenya during the elections.)