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Obama Talks . . . About The Florida Delegates

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Thu May 22, 2008 at 01:57:34 PM EST
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I do not imagine he is inspired by anything but the purest of principles, otherwise the tender sensibilities of Josh Marshall might be bruised, but here is Barack Obama on the Florida delegates:

Delving deeper into Florida's Democratic delegate debacle than he ever has to date, Sen. Barack Obama said Wednesday that "a very reasonable solution" would be to count Florida's disputed primary votes and cut the state's delegation to the convention in half.

I am not sure what principle Obama is defending here, but I am sure Josh Marshall is proud of Obama''s principled stand. Politics is surely not involved in Obama's position. Never. No way. Otherwise, Josh's feelings might be hurt.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

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    Obama Talks . . . About The Florida Delegates | 204 comments (204 topical)
    Hee hee hee hee... (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by madamab on Thu May 22, 2008 at 01:59:02 PM EST
    you are killing me!

    Does Obama have any thoughts on, you know, counting the votes?

    Of Michigan, I mean? (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by madamab on Thu May 22, 2008 at 01:59:41 PM EST
    (stupid fingers)

    [ Parent ]
    Florida in particular MUST BE COUNTED (none / 0) (#211)
    by Eleanor A on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:52:57 PM EST
    Otherwise, the 14 states with GOP-controlled legislatures (among them Florida, Ohio, Missouri and Arizona) will see their primaries moved in 2012, simply so the Republicans can screw with the Democratic nominating process.

    Although, now that the GOP has seen the dischord over FL/MI this cycle, it may be too late.  They've probably already coordinated plans to do exactly that in all 14 states.  (Don't think they won't; these are the same folks who've been determined to not only manipulate ballots but put lightning-rod social issues like abortion, gay marriage, etc. on statewide ballots in Federal election years.)

    [ Parent ]

    Penalty rendered (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:03:51 PM EST
    Why should Florida and Michigan avoid any penalty for violating rules that 48 other states abided by?
    the penalty has been dealt, by not making a decision till May 31st, and not having them be in the "count" 2209 vs.  the Obama number, they lost their advantage of going ahead of schedule.  

    How do you solve a problem like Florida? (none / 0) (#63)
    by Rictor Rockets on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:24:27 PM EST
    the penalty has been dealt, by not making a decision till May 31st, and not having them be in the "count" 2209 vs.  the Obama number, they lost their advantage of going ahead of schedule.  

    And now they get rewarded by being able to play kingmaker at the very end, without any penalties.

    Nope. Sorry. Don't see the fairness in that. I doubt the other 48 states would see the fairness either.

    Count the votes. Strip the delegates of one half of their votes which was...you know..one of the original rules to begin with. The fact that they get any votes now is compromise enough.

    Again, I predict this is how it's going to shake out with Florida. If I remember correctly, Florida already indicated that they were "cool" with this.

    If it were up to me, I might have instead stripped the Supers of their votes, and kept the pledge delegates as is, but I'm not sure how "fair" that is, vs. instantly satisfying.

    [ Parent ]

    Uh, Stellaaa (none / 0) (#126)
    by Kathy on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:56:14 PM EST
    am I the only one who is skeptical?  Obama has said all along that he wants this to be resolved, then behind the scenes he does everything he can do to block whatever he can.

    [ Parent ]
    Speak w/forked tongue? (none / 0) (#129)
    by oculus on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:57:18 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    McCain style (none / 0) (#153)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:18:59 PM EST
    He gets the media that he is against torture, all the liberals, think he is reasonable, then: wham, votes against it.  I don't believe them for a minute.  They have fanaticized their troops, now there is no going back.  

    Look, at Somermby today...it's brilliant and it exposes what we thought all along.  

    [ Parent ]

    Plus the biggest penalty: no campaigning (none / 0) (#195)
    by Exeter on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:57:43 PM EST
    No Jefferson Jackson dinners, no millions of campaign dollars spent int the state, no boost in voter registrations, no nothing!

    [ Parent ]
    Gasp (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by cawaltz on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:05:20 PM EST
    Are you insinuating.....THE ONE........is playing politics with MI and FL(to his own benefit)? But, but, but that would be EVIL? Oh wait, I forgot that logic only applies if your name happens to be Clinton. Sigh.

     

    Obama Blocked Revotes (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by Athena on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:29:57 PM EST
    Why isn't Hillary talking more about Obama blocking any revote?

    Turn up the volume on his obstruction!

    [ Parent ]

    Let her take the high road. (none / 0) (#190)
    by samanthasmom on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:51:05 PM EST
    Count every vote, and seat the delegations with full privileges.  Let the rest of us let the world know who is keeping and has kept it from happening all along. The people of Florida and Michigan are not stupid.

    [ Parent ]
    oh! (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:05:36 PM EST
    "In all these races if I didn't campaign at all and this had just been a referendum on name recognition, Sen. Clinton would be the nominee,'' Obama told the Times during his first campaign trip to Florida in eight months. "It's pretty hard to make an argument that somehow you winning what is essentially a name recognition contest in Florida was a good measure of electoral strength there."

    that would explain why he fought a revote tooth and nail I guess.

    Begs the Question (5.00 / 5) (#18)
    by Athena on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:09:42 PM EST
    Senator Obama - why then didn't you want a revote so that voters could really get to know you?

    [ Parent ]
    If Obama can't win (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by madamab on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:10:37 PM EST
    without messing with the process this much, then what is going to happen when all the cards are stacked against him in the fall?

    [ Parent ]
    We'll be making lots of popcorn? (5.00 / 5) (#26)
    by nycstray on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:12:10 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    He's from the Chicago school (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Prabhata on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:13:46 PM EST
    You make the other candidate quit.  He's probably figuring out how he can make McCain have a heart attack.

    [ Parent ]
    I knew who he was (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by madamab on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:12:37 PM EST
    in 2004 after he made that great speech at the Democratic National Convention.

    I think most people interested in politics were pretty impressed with him then. I know I was.

    [ Parent ]

    My hubby was also impressed. (3.00 / 2) (#53)
    by cawaltz on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:20:19 PM EST
    That was before he found out he is a racist. He's not nearly as impressed now as he was then.

    [ Parent ]
    I missed his oratory skills (none / 0) (#114)
    by zfran on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:48:45 PM EST
    Change is coming, preached to me, is not oratory skilling..It's a message to his flock of followers..follow w/o questioning!!!

    [ Parent ]
    Name recognition contest (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by Manuel on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:14:14 PM EST
    That must be what we just had in WV and KY.  Of course the Obama blogs won't be tagging this comment as disingenous.


    [ Parent ]
    yeah (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:15:59 PM EST
    with a name like his maybe he shouldnt even to there.

    [ Parent ]
    GO there (none / 0) (#43)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:16:15 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Oooh, now you got my blood boiling (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by ruffian on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:20:49 PM EST
    again. He thinks that here in FL, by JANUARY 2008, we had never heard of Barack Obama.  As I said at the time he first started saying this in January, we do get that big series of internet tubes down here, and also all of the TV stations.  We did not need the blessed presence of The One to set foot here to know who he was and what he stood for.

    [ Parent ]
    No, (5.00 / 3) (#85)
    by rnibs on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:32:51 PM EST
    he prolly figures Floridians were too busy trying to become part of Appalachia, grabbing their guns and religion and whatnot, to know who he was.

    [ Parent ]
    Wait... (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by madamab on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:46:23 PM EST
    you mean Florida is NOT part of Appalachia?

    But-but-but...isn't one of the Great Lakes in Florida?

    [ Parent ]

    Only when we take a break (none / 0) (#178)
    by ruffian on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:43:16 PM EST
    from reflecting on the great ideas of the Republican party.

    [ Parent ]
    3 days before the FL primary (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Josey on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:59:08 PM EST
    Obama had won the SC primary - with much positive media attention.
    Floridians knew him and basically only college students and Blacks bought his "hope and change."
    Obama and Obamamites want to rub it in - a newbie senator took down a former first first lady & senator. But they ignore the part about the media and Washington establishment promoting Obama and concealing negative info about him - to date.


    [ Parent ]
    Self-Defeating (none / 0) (#202)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:15:54 PM EST
    By not getting behind the seating of the FL & Michigan delegates, Obama is undermining his claim to represent post-partisan politics, and he is he's putting himself at grave risk of losing not only FL & Michigan votes, but the votes of many constituencies that will see this as a major slap in the face.  

    This is not, in the end, a winning strategy for him.  

    [ Parent ]

    but... (none / 0) (#148)
    by huzzlewhat on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:16:25 PM EST
    Given Sen. Obama's repeated arguments about Sen. Clinton's "high negatives," wouldn't it mean that name recognition in this case would not be beneficial?

    [ Parent ]
    His own negatives (none / 0) (#203)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:16:45 PM EST
    are in the 40s now.

    [ Parent ]
    No"Half Baked" Solution Now (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by Missblu on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:08:04 PM EST
    Obama and his friends on the DNC rules Committee set the rules and I think aided in keeping these states in suspension, even though DNC Rules clearly stated remedies to include them. Rules are just rules for the moment apparently. His arguments were never based in the rules anyway and were not in the interest of those state's voters nor of the Democratic Party, but clearly in the fact that those delegates were expressing a greater favoritism in the country toward Senator Clinton. It is clear as can be.  Women see this and remember well how it all happened and will fight for full reinstatement. These states did not fit well on the Obama prediction chart

    Delegates Now and Then (5.00 / 5) (#24)
    by Athena on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:12:01 PM EST
    Clinton clearly lost the "time value of delegates" in the FL and MI fiascos (in the way that money has a time value).

    She lost the credibility and momentum that her wins in 2 of the larget 10 states should have given her.

    [ Parent ]

    this I do not understand. (none / 0) (#213)
    by Christy1947 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 05:10:06 PM EST
    My understanding is that the 50% rule was enforced in 2004 by Terry McAuliffe, now her campaign manager when Michigan wanted to do it in that year. And that Harold Ickes, one of her campaign staff was on the Rules Committee when it voted the sanctions against FlA and MI, and that he and 28 others voted for them. That the only dissenter on that committee was someone from Tampa. And that at the time her campaign leader, Mr. Ickes was voting for the bans, she was not objecting. Will one of you tell me why she was not objecting when the rule went on?

    [ Parent ]
    It's a pure cutting of FL's delegation (5.00 / 5) (#17)
    by goldberry on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:09:04 PM EST
    I'm sure that he has only the most pristine of motives in reducing their impact by half.  It has nothing at all to do with maintaining his image of inevitability.  

    Talk is cheap, do something about it now. (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by FLVoter on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:09:46 PM EST


    Talk is cheap, which (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by FlaDemFem on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:21:18 PM EST
    explains why all we are going to get from Obama is talk. He won't accept anything that keeps him from getting the nomination, no matter how unfair it is to us, the FL voters. It's all about Obama, always has been. People are starting to see that. Hopefully, the SDs will too.

    [ Parent ]
    I certainly hope (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by oldpro on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:12:24 PM EST
    Josh can explain this.

    In the end (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by Edgar08 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:14:11 PM EST
    Josh being an idiot is a very small thing compared to what is happening here.


    [ Parent ]
    You're both right. (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by madamab on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:18:18 PM EST
    [Cue the pretzelification!]

    But Josh and his ilk have given Obama "progressive" creds that he may not have otherwise been able to claim.

    Had they held Obama to account in some way - any way - perhaps the shape of this primary would have been quite different.

    [ Parent ]

    Meaning? (none / 0) (#47)
    by oldpro on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:17:14 PM EST
    Exactly what is happening 'here?'

    And where's 'here?'

    I need a nap...or coffee...or both.

    [ Parent ]

    Meaning (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by Edgar08 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:23:52 PM EST
    Obama pretending he cares about Florida after they were excluded from the process.


    [ Parent ]
    If Obama were Solomon, his Baby Solution would be (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by Ellie on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:14:42 PM EST
    ... cut the baby in half but give Clinton first pick.

    Obama's as bad as Bush if not worse.

    (These New Politics of Unity Hope and Change, are we certain we didn't just mis-hear the phrase, "You Didden Hope We Changed Didjja?")

    I'm not buying it (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Edgar08 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:15:46 PM EST
    This is a viable solution now.  But not three months ago.

    [ Parent ]
    I know (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by rnibs on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:35:54 PM EST
    He's had plenty of time to take vacation during the primary season, but not to deal with this?

    [ Parent ]
    Obama to speak for Kennedy (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:16:53 PM EST
    at commencement.  OT sorry, it just broke on AP.  I heard Wellesley.  Please tell me Obama is not speaking at Wellesley.   YES HE IS!!!!

    This is me disgusted (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by Regency on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:19:41 PM EST
    THat's just not right.

    I'm actually nauseous about it.

    [ Parent ]

    Let's just hope (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by madamab on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:21:44 PM EST
    he refrains from using the word "sweetie" when addressing all of those women at Wellesley.

    [Sigh. Still bummed about poor ol' Ted.]

    [ Parent ]

    Me too (none / 0) (#72)
    by CST on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:28:07 PM EST
    There was an article in Newsweek about who might replace him.  The problem is, no one can really replace who he was in the senate.  Also, it makes me feel like he already died... It's hard to stay hopeful.

    [ Parent ]
    I really like Bernie Sanders... (none / 0) (#76)
    by madamab on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:29:56 PM EST
    but he is an Independent and doesn't have the standing of Ted's name or Party affiliation.

    :-(

    [ Parent ]

    They meant literally (none / 0) (#83)
    by CST on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:32:20 PM EST
    As in, who will be the new MA senator.

    Bernie Sanders is already a Sen. from VT.

    [ Parent ]

    Just as long (none / 0) (#94)
    by rnibs on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:37:23 PM EST
    as it's not Deval Patrick.

    [ Parent ]
    Barney Frank (none / 0) (#95)
    by masslib on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:38:24 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Kennedy would like his wife (none / 0) (#194)
    by samanthasmom on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:57:22 PM EST
    to finish his term if he is unable to do it.  The practice has precedents.

    [ Parent ]
    I am completely against that practice (none / 0) (#205)
    by bridget on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:18:52 PM EST
    The senate is not a private company.

    Sonny Bono died and a few weeks later his wife joined the Prosecutors trashing Bill Clinton during the impeachment trial. Oh, the children ....

    When election time came around the district was again firmly in Repub hands and despite Dem efforts will be until who knows when .... grrrr. She didn't even debate her Dem opponent during the last election. Said her record spoke for itself and despite some media noise got away with it ... double grrr.

    [ Parent ]

    They will kneecap him. (none / 0) (#74)
    by oculus on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:29:30 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Like Tonya Harding? (none / 0) (#82)
    by madamab on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:31:08 PM EST
    That's what we girls do! /snark

    [ Parent ]
    I think it is Wesleyan U. in Middletown Conn. (none / 0) (#158)
    by felizarte on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:26:30 PM EST
    Where Ted K.'s son studied and where his stepdaughter is enrolled.

    [ Parent ]
    Well, that is entirely different (none / 0) (#180)
    by ruffian on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:45:44 PM EST
    Never Mind.

    [ Parent ]
    Isn't that Hillary's alma mater? (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by goldberry on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:20:13 PM EST
    Is that going to go over well?  

    [ Parent ]
    Yes it is (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by ruffian on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:23:00 PM EST
    That is just a slap in the face.  They could have gotten plenty of other people to speak.

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks A Lot (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by Athena on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:27:15 PM EST
    Shame on Wellesley.

    [ Parent ]
    Who asked Obama to speak? (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by oculus on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:34:32 PM EST
    Maybe T. Kennedy?

    [ Parent ]
    That's what the NYT says... (none / 0) (#162)
    by jackyt on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:28:25 PM EST
    It doesn't mention any Wellesley involvement in the decision. Just Obama saying "Teddy has done so much for me and this country, I'll do this for him(OWTTE)."

    [ Parent ]
    Wait a minute (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Regency on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:35:56 PM EST
    Seems like this may not be true: Press Release: 2008 Wellesley Commencement Speaker

    Faux is playing games. Don't fall for it.

    I personally think it should've been Hillary, but as an almost-Wellesley Girl I'm extremely biased.

    [ Parent ]

    That sounds much more logical (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by nycstray on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:54:59 PM EST
    Obama speaking there would be wrong in so many ways, imo.

    [ Parent ]
    More than one? (none / 0) (#159)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:26:33 PM EST
    Many commencement ceremonies involve more than 1 speaker.  

    Thanks for the info.  I hope you are correct.  I found this insulting.

    [ Parent ]

    Slap, slap. (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by oculus on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:22:16 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    That is a disgusting cheap trick (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Dr Molly on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:26:54 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Haven't they already (none / 0) (#110)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:47:12 PM EST
    rubbed enough salt in the wound?

    I hope there are protests.

    [ Parent ]

    The story is... (none / 0) (#199)
    by djcny on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:11:56 PM EST
    from CNN, "Kennedy had hoped to deliver the commencement address at Wesleyan University in Middletown, Conn., Sunday, where his stepdaughter, Caroline Raclin, will be among the graduates. However, he has persuaded Sen. Barack Obama to stand in for him."

    [ Parent ]
    WOW the Obama campaign is really pushing it (none / 0) (#208)
    by bridget on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:27:16 PM EST
    incl. Kennedy who is part of it since surrogate numero uno

    I am not impressed by that decision.

    It's not helping with "la unite" at all. Au contraire.

    [ Parent ]

    Another "ditto" for Obama..snicker (none / 0) (#209)
    by FlaDemFem on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:37:17 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton was the first STUDENT ever to give a commencement speech at Wellesley, in 1969. That was also noticed nationally. When Obama was nine years old. I hope everyone at Wellesley points that out to him..over and over and over. Heh.

    [ Parent ]
    God, way to lose (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Robert Oak on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:25:28 PM EST
    But trying to grab the Democratic nomination he is busy ensuring he will lose in November.  Gee, wiz, we just can't count the votes in Florida (for that means we might lose).  Now what HBO movie as well as national uproar and outrage does this remind you of?

    Clinton is damn right to stay put, and be the lady in waiting because I cannot see anyway Obama will win the general with this.  I seriously can't.

    BTW:  Who thinks Clinton should be the Senate majority leader?  I've always thought Harry Reid is absurdly corporate as well as timid and someone else needs that job.

    Me me me (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Valhalla on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:50:14 PM EST
    I think Clinton would be a fabulous Majority leader.  One thing all the brouhaha about the primaries has overshadowed is Congress' abysmal approval ratings.  They're at 18.7% today over at RCP and have hovered around 18 for months.  Maybe she could actually light a fire under the Dem controlled Senate and get them doing something.

    Although, I haven't given up the fight for the 2nd President Clinton, not by a long shot.  But if she doesn't get the titles, then Sen. Majority leader would be excellent.  Far better than VP (not that I think Obama will offer it).

    [ Parent ]

    And (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:52:59 PM EST
    people on blogs think that John McCain is going to be easy to beat? People dislike congress even more than they dislike Bush. And the people responsible for those abysmal ratings are the same ones that are backing Obama. Does that tell you anything?

    [ Parent ]
    Despite what Harry Reid has said, (none / 0) (#123)
    by zfran on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:55:05 PM EST
    if so many in the Senate is against her now, what makes anyone think they'd support and vote for her as Majority Leader?

    [ Parent ]
    Exactly (none / 0) (#185)
    by ruffian on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:48:37 PM EST
    No doubt she would be great at it.  But she has just as good a chance at being elected President as getting those Senators to vote her leader.  Besides, if Obama wins in Nov he will want his own man - and I do mean man - in that job.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (none / 0) (#134)
    by Steve M on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:01:28 PM EST
    Considering the outright disrespect shown to Hillary during this campaign by so many of her colleagues in the Senate, I somehow doubt they'd start marching to her tune if she were Majority Leader.

    [ Parent ]
    will Obama's talking about FL (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by oculus on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:33:02 PM EST
    delegates convince the press to stop talking about Clinton's campaign re MI/FL?

    Listening to the blogger conference call (none / 0) (#102)
    by Militarytracy on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:44:18 PM EST
    with Clinton campaign.  Rewired my whole brain.

    [ Parent ]
    Really interesting, I thought. (none / 0) (#105)
    by oculus on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:45:23 PM EST
    No wonder your husband is so enamoured of her.

    [ Parent ]
    FL (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:56:47 PM EST
    had a legitimate primary not a straw poll. Geez.

    Over 1.5 million Dems voted in FL (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by nycstray on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:01:14 PM EST
    you were sayin'?

    Did they have cable blackouts on prior election news? on the debates? zero access to the candidates websites? newspapers?

    Interesting Obama declined to speak to Florida (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by bridget on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:22:09 PM EST
    reporters since August acc. to the article. Well, I think they forgot that he talked to them before voting day. And he will not remind anyone of it, either.

    Still, this does not come as a suprise because he has a  tendency to avoid controversy and he also avoids the Obama press people who follow him around

    thanks to the Kool Aid he is getting away with all that like no other

    Has anyone ever asked him WHY he campaigned in Florida (that he held a press conference which he shrugged off in manner of cute candidate) since he signed the pledge?

    Bet not and Obama relies on the bias media to help him in the Fl and Mi matter. Just like they didn't touch Wright for over a year.

    btw. when he changed the subject to the voter's concern re gas, health etc. he was repeating the talking point for the day. I heard exactly the same thing from a couple Obama-supporting pundits on TV last night. Can't remember who it was anymore except they were two of the regular Obama fans and they made a big deal out of it and, of course, ridiculed Hillary for bothering everybody with that annoying MI and Florida subject. They had a good laugh about it all.

    How often have we heard from the pundits on TV and  in paper that it was just a beauty contest? Olbermann couldn't stop ridiculing Hillary for holding a victory speech after Florida.

    re name recognition.
    Obama does know how famous he is but plays coy.
    Anyone who follows foreign press knows how he is in the paper daily not just in the US. Although following the primary contest is a v. confusing matter for folks overseas I have been told. Understandable IMO. But people know Obama just as well as Hillary Clinton. Bet Americans know him just as well ;-)

    Honest to Zeus, I am actually (4.85 / 7) (#3)
    by andgarden on Thu May 22, 2008 at 01:59:58 PM EST
    eating popcorn right now.

    LOL! (5.00 / 6) (#6)
    by madamab on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:03:20 PM EST
    I mean, if memory serves me, and I am old and decrepit to 12-year-old Obama bloggers, wasn't the 50% solution...THE ORIGINAL ROOL?!

    Hey, pass me some of that popcorn!

    [ Parent ]

    Ha Ha! (5.00 / 7) (#42)
    by Dr Molly on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:16:15 PM EST
    Yes, but the rule is so much more.... MEANINGFUL and INSPIRING... now that Obama has offered it himself.

    [ Parent ]
    and Transformational!!! (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by ruffian on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:57:35 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    He is so generous to the voters! (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Dr Molly on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:05:49 PM EST
    We should all be grateful.

    [ Parent ]
    That's right. (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:18:17 PM EST
    Barack Obama is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

    [ Parent ]
    It's after 12:00 (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:12:29 PM EST
    I've cracked a beer.    I'm sticking to developing my Clinton bona fides to the end!

    [ Parent ]
    Here ya go! (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by madamab on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:13:51 PM EST
    [passes waldenpond a shot through the Intertubez]

    [ Parent ]
    ok (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:15:04 PM EST
    it has to be domestic and you have to drink it out of the can

    [ Parent ]
    No can but (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:21:37 PM EST
    it is only MGD (that's all I have in the house).  I have my feet up on a styrofoam cooler to balance it out though.  :)

    [ Parent ]
    I think Iron City Beer is what Hillary in PA (none / 0) (#101)
    by Mark Woods on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:43:54 PM EST
    chased her Pittsburgh boiler-maker with, if authenticity's your aim.

    [ Parent ]
    The story from Axelrod will be: (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by ruffian on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:48:40 PM EST
    Obama awoke Wednesday morning after 3 hours of sleep and reflected that even Apollo had to make tough decisions like this one.

    [ Parent ]
    Apollo come to earth says: (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by ruffian on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:54:37 PM EST
    like Sybil of Cumae, those women in FL will get their votes - but not their youth!!! Bwahahahahah!!!!

    [ Parent ]
    Soon they'll be calling Obama (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by pie on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:55:22 PM EST
    Solomon.  

    Split that baby in half, baybee!

    Wheeeeeeeeeeee!!!

    [ Parent ]

    this blog would be fun (none / 0) (#183)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:48:21 PM EST
    if we were allowed to post some animated gifs once in a while, amiright?

    [ Parent ]
    The Constitutional Fathers (1.00 / 0) (#103)
    by DCDemocrat on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:44:34 PM EST
    were more generous to the slaves than Barack Obama proposes to be to Floridians.

    If McCain choses Charlie Crist for VP he is (none / 0) (#4)
    by athyrio on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:02:45 PM EST
    automatically a winner IMO....Crist is a very popular Gov. in Florida.....I know it is off topic but thought since we are discussing Florida, it might be an point of concern for Obama folks...

    I think McCain would (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by madamab on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:04:49 PM EST
    have to be a lot more gay-friendly than he is if he is to pick Charlie "Permanent Bachelor" Crist as his running-mate.

    [ Parent ]
    And a lot more confident of his base (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by ruffian on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:25:21 PM EST
    McCain has enough problems with the religious right as it is.  He is not picking Crist, but good for him for at least pretending to consider it.

    In my opinion, he will pick Pawlenty and we will be in paw-lenty of trouble.

    [ Parent ]

    look for the dark horse, the new repub (none / 0) (#167)
    by hellothere on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:33:40 PM EST
    governor from la to have a chance. think about it. he is first generation also. he has from what i have read done some good things in louisana. he wears cowboy boots to the office. this the sort of new and refreshing thing that voters might like. it would take away from the ongoing docudrama known as obama.

    [ Parent ]
    Crist would be extremely wise (none / 0) (#49)
    by Prabhata on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:19:23 PM EST
    Crist would take FL and would bring many gays into the fold.  SF will go for him, and that would be the first time in many years that SF would go Republican.

    [ Parent ]
    Do you think the National Party (none / 0) (#66)
    by madamab on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:25:38 PM EST
    would allow this?

    Seriously, Crist is teh ghey. I thought the Republicans were not okay with that.

    I don't see what Crist would really add anyway. He is not going to get the evangelical vote.

    My $$$ are on Hackabee.

    [ Parent ]

    Huckabee's out (none / 0) (#71)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:27:30 PM EST
    you don't make that asinine of a joke about Obama and think you are getting the VP slot.

    [ Parent ]
    Ha! (none / 0) (#87)
    by madamab on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:33:08 PM EST
    McCain has said far worse about Obama.

    I don't think that disqualifies the Hackster.

    [ Parent ]

    I forgot about that (none / 0) (#88)
    by ruffian on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:33:50 PM EST
    Pawlenty it is.

    [ Parent ]
    Everytime Crist is in the national eye (none / 0) (#84)
    by ruffian on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:32:32 PM EST
    with McCain, the next week there are stories about him 'flirting' with women or bringing some society Republican woman to a social event. Pretty amusing. The media here goes along with it.

    [ Parent ]
    good point (none / 0) (#149)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:18:08 PM EST
    I suspect there are "people" who kept quiet for the governor but might not for the VP.


    [ Parent ]
    FL (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:47:38 PM EST
    is lost for Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    of FL is lost (and it probably is) (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:18:58 PM EST
    then so is the White House

    [ Parent ]
    Looks like the 1/2 proposal (none / 0) (#5)
    by sarissa on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:03:05 PM EST
    is going to carry the day.

    I wouldn't count on it. (5.00 / 5) (#25)
    by goldberry on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:12:07 PM EST
    His argument is transparent and extremely self-serving.  He will get no brownie points from Floridians if he thwarts their intentions by cutting their delegation.  He might have legitimately made this argument two months ago but it just looks like poor sportsmanship now.  

    [ Parent ]
    Don't bet on it (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by americanincanada on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:16:48 PM EST
    I believe Florida will be seated 'as is'.

    [ Parent ]
    Slow today, had a bad night (none / 0) (#10)
    by rilkefan on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:05:30 PM EST
    Isn't this approach - count the voters, dock the delegates - something you've been willing to accept as reasonable under the plain reading of the rules?

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:06:43 PM EST
    you are slow today.

    Did you see who my target was in this? Indeed, read my posting today to see who my targets are.

    [ Parent ]

    Are his initials... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by madamab on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:08:56 PM EST
    Josh Marshall?

    [ Parent ]
    Question is, is it political? (none / 0) (#44)
    by rilkefan on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:16:33 PM EST
    Unless JMM says no delegates should be seated, no votes counted - and I'm not going to look, then he's just sad.  But if the question is politics vs principle, one could argue that Obama's stance is just a non-partisan take on the situation.  I think, anyway - I don't know what the precedents are if any.  I seem to recall a sensible HRC supporter calling for such an approach earlier.

    [ Parent ]
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:19:33 PM EST
    If you do not care enough to read the material, why should I discuss this with you?

    [ Parent ]
    Think I've read the relevant material (none / 0) (#79)
    by rilkefan on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:30:44 PM EST
    And as far as I can tell I've presented a refutation of your argument.  I don't necessarily agree that the prima facie approach to the situation is count the voters, halve the delegates, but I believe I've seen sensible people say so, which is enough for JMM to reply, There's your principle.  Perhaps one goes on and argues that Obama in effect campaigned there and should get 0 delegates, or that the other states that moved up should be punished, and hence Obama isn't being consistent etc.; but that's not present in your post.

    [ Parent ]
    You think wrong (none / 0) (#93)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:36:23 PM EST
    You came nowhere near my argument.

    Later.

    [ Parent ]

    Opening here for some (none / 0) (#14)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:08:28 PM EST
    Biblical references and Solomon with cutting the baby in half, but someone more clever can come up with the analogy.  

    how about (none / 0) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:10:52 PM EST
    tossing both halves of the baby out with the bathwater?


    [ Parent ]
    LOL - I'm dyin' here. (none / 0) (#67)
    by ruffian on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:26:49 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Stellaaa I know I work the cheap side o'the Street (none / 0) (#81)
    by Ellie on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:31:07 PM EST
    But I already cut into that baby. (Or, I already cut into that, Baby!)

    You know, drop by sometime for some appetizers!

    OnT: This is d0uchery is a bit much even for BO. How can his flock continue defending him on a day to day basis after, eg, months of complaining that HRC "changed her mind" once and apparently that first thing was graven on stone tablets or something?

    [ Parent ]

    BO is borrowing from Solomon's wisdom (none / 0) (#22)
    by Prabhata on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:11:24 PM EST
    but sounding like an unwise politician.

    For all of Clinton's efforts (none / 0) (#23)
    by ajain on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:11:45 PM EST
    Gov. Paterson just squashed her.
    He called her efforts desperate and called into question her Michigan argument.

    It is quite something. Why don't her supporters stay on message? Maybe they should simply avoid questions for a while.

    Link? (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by nycstray on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:14:20 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Here it is (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by ajain on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:27:14 PM EST
    Via The Page

    Link

    [ Parent ]

    Ask and ye shall receive. (none / 0) (#73)
    by sweetthings on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:29:01 PM EST
    Link.

    "I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support and I'll support until whatever time she makes a different determination," Paterson said, adding: "I thought she was the best candidate and I thought she had the best chance of winning."

    Ouch. He thought she was the best? As in, past tense?

    Paterson is a hard-core Clinton supporter and a Superdelegate. If he's buying into the "it's over" meme, well, that's not good.

    [ Parent ]

    Actually (none / 0) (#90)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:35:15 PM EST
    that is the end of Paterson's chance to run for Governor in the next election.

    [ Parent ]
    Can you imagine a primary (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by andgarden on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:41:42 PM EST
    between Schumer, Hillary, and Cuomo? They'll work it before hand. . .

    [ Parent ]
    Might as well throw Bloomberg (5.00 / 1) (