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Overnight Open Thread

Here's the final thread tonight, and remember, TalkLeft may be down tomorrow from 9am ET for several hours -- there's a chance a backup will be in place which would mean only 10 minute outages per hour through the morning, but I'm not counting on it. This is a network wide issue, not a TL server issue.

Thanks to all for the congratulations on earlier threads to Nic, the TL kid who was sworn in today as a Colorado lawyer. The ceremony was led by all of the Justices of the Colorado Supreme Court, with a federal judge and others presenting remarks.

When it came time for the oath, they asked all the existing lawyers in the audience who were there with their kids being sworn in to stand with their kids and retake the oath. So the TL kid and I got to take the oath together.

Here's a photo of us right afterwards. [More...]

Here's the oath:

I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR by the Everliving God (OR AFFIRM) that:

  • I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Colorado;
  • I will maintain the respect due to Courts and judicial officers;
  • I will employ only such means as are consistent with truth and honor;
  • I will treat all persons whom I encounter through my practice of law with fairness, courtesy, respect and honesty;
  • I will use my knowledge of the law for the betterment of society and the improvement of the legal system;
  • I will never reject, from any consideration personal to myself, the cause of the defenseless or oppressed;
  • I will at all times faithfully and diligently adhere to the Colorado Rules of Professional Conduct.

As a post-script and making me even happier is that he's chosen criminal defense. He's an associate with one of Denver's best criminal law firms.

Now it's your turn, this is an open thread. And in the words of Hillary tonight, "We will keep going forward until we have a nominee, whoever she may be."

< Who Had the Bigger Win Tonight? | $31 Million Campaign Debt? Never Mind >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Great photograph!! (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by Stellaaa on Wed May 21, 2008 at 12:53:58 AM EST
    Congratulations.  (what is that behind you, statue or dancer?)

    a statue (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Jeralyn on Wed May 21, 2008 at 12:59:00 AM EST
    it was held at the Denver Theatre for Performing Arts.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh, good. It looked like (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Cream City on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:59:19 AM EST
    somebody was having to hang by his thumbs.  I hoped it wasn't because he flunked the bar exam.

    And that is one gorgeous guy next to his mom.  Thumbs up to both of you! :-)

    [ Parent ]

    You made me go back and look again (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by BarnBabe on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:22:34 AM EST
    OK, I see it now, a dancer. BUT, when I originally looked at the picture, I thought that was someone's arm. And it is, except I thought it was a live arm. Let me go for that morning coffee. Now.  

    [ Parent ]
    LOL! Cream City n/t (none / 0) (#86)
    by kempis on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:31:07 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    The Other Side (none / 0) (#167)
    by cal1942 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 12:35:49 PM EST
    Beautiful mom, nice looking young man.

    I thought the guy standing behind was changing a light bulb.

    [ Parent ]

    Jeralyn, you're (none / 0) (#157)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed May 21, 2008 at 10:45:55 AM EST
    going to break your face with that smile!  So wonderful!


    [ Parent ]
    You two are splendid looking (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed May 21, 2008 at 12:56:13 AM EST
    in that photo: radiant and joyous. But the background figure is too provocative to go without explanation!

    what a great picture and a very handsome (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by athyrio on Wed May 21, 2008 at 12:56:26 AM EST
    young man, and you don't look old enough to have a son that age and I can easily see where his good looks came from ....lol....I admire your parenting abilities....Good Job MOM!!! As we mom's know it isn't an easy job...When my daughter became a nurse I was allowed to put her RN pin on her during a ceremony so I have a bit of an understanding what you must be feeling...Way to go!!!!

    Another congrats... (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by Alec82 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 12:56:53 AM EST
    ...is really in order.  It is quite an achievement.  Criminal defense attorneys are so regularly belittled in the media and everyday life.  I hope he prospers and holds the government accountable.  

     I know that we all disagree on many things.  But a more hopeful and just future is not one of them.    

    Thanks, Alex (5.00 / 7) (#13)
    by Jeralyn on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:13:40 AM EST
    I appreciate that -- and that you have chosen to hang out here the past several months even though you don't agree with most of the other commenters, or with me.

    [ Parent ]
    The pleasure is all mine... (5.00 / 5) (#36)
    by Alec82 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:09:23 AM EST
    ...my parents told me, long ago, that it is better to surround yourself with people you don't agree with than those you do.  And it helped.  It helped me hone my arguments, learn more about the candidates and understand the concerns of Senator Clinton's supporters.  I think, in the end, we all emerge stronger.

         

    [ Parent ]

    What an (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by Jane in CA on Wed May 21, 2008 at 12:58:15 AM EST
    amazing and poignant experience it must have been for you, retaking the oath with your son.  Congratulations to both of you.

    My thoughts, too (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by kempis on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:34:59 AM EST
    When it came time for the oath, they asked all the existing lawyers in the audience who were there with their kids being sworn in to stand with their kids and retake the oath. So the TL kid and I got to take the oath together.

    I got a bit misty at that point. How wonderful.

    Congratulations to your son--and to you for raising such a fine young man.

    [ Parent ]

    Loved your photo (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by Serene1 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 12:59:40 AM EST
    the provocative background and all. You look very happy.
    Loved your line - Whoever She may be.

    Congrats on the swearing in... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by kredwyn on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:04:04 AM EST


    Congrats. (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by hillaryboy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:06:51 AM EST
    Great picture of the two of you. :)

    Jeralyn, my hand to god, (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:08:54 AM EST
    I didn't read the intro closely. So I assumed the "us" in the photo was you and BTD - I've never seen a photo of the guy. Now that I know better, it's still improbable that the fully grown man beside you is your son. I was very moved by the back-story. It makes you both all the more beautiful and, like you, I am sure that he is a credit to the profession.

    Thank you (5.00 / 4) (#25)
    by Jeralyn on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:40:33 AM EST
    for those kind words. And believe it or not, BTD and I have not met in person.

    [ Parent ]
    Which raises the obvious question... (none / 0) (#162)
    by oldpro on Wed May 21, 2008 at 10:56:21 AM EST
    has anyone met BTD in person?

    How do we know he really exists, in the flesh, and isn't just an alter ego...the creation of someone's more assertive persona?

    I think we need a photo for a reality check!

    [ Parent ]

    Or is it (none / 0) (#168)
    by cal1942 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 12:44:15 PM EST
    like Clark Kent and Superman; never seen together.

    [ Parent ]
    Works for me...oh, wait... (none / 0) (#170)
    by oldpro on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:37:03 PM EST
    except that this particular superhero is more likely to rescue Obama and let Hillary drown.

    Nope.  Not good.

    [ Parent ]

    More photos (5.00 / 5) (#12)
    by Jeralyn on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:11:09 AM EST
    Here are some of the judges who were there, which shows a little of the solemnity of it.

    And the TL kid's stepmom and stepsister were there too (his dad was out of town so they videotaped it for him.)

    That's a sculpture in the background, it took place at the  Denver Center for Performing Arts.

    And we were still smiling at dinner, while BTD was keeping you all up to date on the primaries.

    Wonderful photos! (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by otherlisa on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:42:22 AM EST
    Many congratulations! Proof of a parenting job well-done, and a career role model too!

    [ Parent ]
    Both pics of you and our new lawyer ... (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by andrys on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:14:55 AM EST
    Both photos are just great, and it's wonderful to have something solid to celebrate tonight!!   Beautiful, both of you.

     Thanks for sharing them!  

    [ Parent ]

    Sincere congratulations (none / 0) (#134)
    by NotThatStupid on Wed May 21, 2008 at 08:28:58 AM EST
    Well done, both of you.

    [ Parent ]
    nice happy picture (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by wasabi on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:16:52 AM EST
    Congrats on raising a nice Liberal guy.

    Non-insider Q: BO gets to disappear MI-FL why? (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Ellie on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:17:39 AM EST
    Why are the dems allowing one man to decide the fate of millions of voters in MI and FL? I've repeatedly heard references to Obama turning this down and that down -- after making strategic campaign choices.

    Like any campaign, these were choices and strategies any candidate would make based on their own and rivals' strategies.

    Obama has been given every option here and Dems have bowed to his personal whim / veto on this. (Don't know if it's a media portrayal but why hasn't Sen. Clinton been given that apparent right of veto or dismissal?)

    I'm curious about this and friends who aren't voting in the GE were puzzled as well.

    One man? (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by dws3665 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:36:02 AM EST
    That's not a nice way to talk about Donna Brazile, Ellie.

    Oh. You mean Obama.

    He's not doing it alone, I'm afraid.

    [ Parent ]

    Congrats (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by MO Blue on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:19:13 AM EST
    A proud moment for you and your son.

    Great photo Jeralyn (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by diplomatic on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:24:48 AM EST
    Although the "Michael Myers from Halloween" look-alike behind you guys was sort of disturbing.

    Anyway I'm signing off.  It was great talking to you all today.

    Looking forward to Puerto Rico!

    Congratulations, TL Kid (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by eleanora on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:30:51 AM EST
    and proud mom! Great pics, and good luck in your work as a criminal defense lawyer. :)

    That's very nice (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by phat on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:33:57 AM EST
    Sharing the oath is a really nice thing. Whoever thought of that is a very smart person. Seriously, what a good idea.

    It's nice to see young people going into criminal law, too. Whatever people may say, the nuts and bolts of criminal law is essential to what we hold dear as a nation.

    There is no other way.

    And thank you for this blog. I try not to get too excited or hyperbolic about what goes on in these things. Blog? What's a blog?

    But this website has been a godsend. I started reading this blog because of my work on the death penalty. But I have come here more in the context of the election because of the reasonableness here. It can be very hard to find reasonable behavior in the "real world" and "online". It's good to know that somebody is thinking clearly.

    When the history of this election is written, I fully expect this website to be held up as something quite valuable.

    phat

    Exactly. (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by andrys on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:19:59 AM EST
    In fact, I was at a friend's house last night with no way to get news of the election (no cable news, no AM radio) but very late I discovered a laptop with Internet and what did I do?

      In order to get at the heart of what was happening?

      I logged into TalkLeft.

      An island of sanity where factual information is valued and plentiful.  

      Thanks again on a night that gave us great results in Kentucky and, on the other side of things, what was to be expected in Oregon and Iowa  :-)

    [ Parent ]

    Caller from FL on CNN w/ (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by oculus on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:38:12 AM EST
    Larry King:  is Hillary Clinton damaging the Dem. Party by staying in the race "so long"?

    Begala:  No.  17 mil. people voted for her.  She won KY by 35 points.  

    Signing off now myself (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Jeralyn on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:44:31 AM EST
    Thanks again for all your congrats and great comments, and for hanging in with us throughout this long race. I'm staying on it as long as Hillary stays in.

    No blogger knows as much about Puerto Rico as Big Tent Democrat so that coverage will be fun.

    Obama plans general election team (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by nycstray on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:51:29 AM EST
     
    WASHINGTON - Barack Obama is quietly planning to take over the Democratic National Committee and assemble a multistate team for the general election, the latest sign that he is putting rival Hillary Rodham Clinton and the nomination fight behind him.

    Top Obama organizer Paul Tewes is in discussions to run the party, several Democratic officials said Tuesday.

    Obama spokesman Bill Burton said no final decisions have been made on general election plans and that such decisions would be premature with Obama yet to clinch the nomination.

    So how quietly is it when the AP's reporting it? He's really ticking me off.

    Presumptuous (none / 0) (#143)
    by creeper on Wed May 21, 2008 at 09:10:09 AM EST
    No, beyond presumptuous.  Downright offensive.

    Keep reporting, AP.  

    [ Parent ]

    Let's hope he gets that concession speech (none / 0) (#159)
    by leis on Wed May 21, 2008 at 10:48:04 AM EST
    written too. McCain will appreciate the heartfelt congratulations.

    [ Parent ]
    Mazel tov, Jeralyn! (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by janarchy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:58:40 AM EST
    What a great photo and a great moment for you and your son!

    Holy election results, Batman! (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Robot Porter on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:09:57 AM EST
    I turned off the cable morons this evening, and watched a few of episodes the Adam West Batman series.

    The America of the Batman TV series seemed more realistic than the one I was being told about on MSNBC, CNN et al.

    You love this clip (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by facta non verba on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:26:56 AM EST
    the first is a Clinton Townhall Meeting, the second a scene for Batman.

    Clinton in Oregon

    [ Parent ]

    The Batman clip is great ... (none / 0) (#105)
    by Robot Porter on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:05:59 AM EST
    and very apropos.

    [ Parent ]
    An evening of Kitchy Camp, eh? ;) (none / 0) (#40)
    by nycstray on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:25:17 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Yes, and ... (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Robot Porter on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:42:10 AM EST
    then I watched the Batman TV show.

    ;)

    [ Parent ]

    Oh I love that show! (none / 0) (#45)
    by janarchy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:39:59 AM EST
    I grew up on it when it was on in prime time and still love it today in all its cheesey glory. Sadly, it's not out on dvd and probably never will be since there seems to be about 1001 copyright issues to work out.

    [ Parent ]
    Yup ... (none / 0) (#50)
    by Robot Porter on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:49:22 AM EST
    Warners owns Batman, and Fox owns the TV show, and they cannot come to an arrangement.

    I got sick of waiting, and picked up a bootleg.

    Not DVD quality.  But they look good, and the episodes are complete, even have the original ABC logo the beginning of each episode.  

    [ Parent ]

    I knew about that (none / 0) (#55)
    by janarchy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:51:51 AM EST
    and then there's also apparently issues about getting permission from assorted people and/or their estates for the cameos in each episode on top of that. It's a mess.

    I really should look for it on eBay. Someone must have it -- I've gotten a few other series that will probably never see the light of dvd that way. I know the theatrical film from 1966 is available though. I really need to pick that up as well.

    Sadly, I once met Adam West at a science fiction convention and he's not very nice.

    [ Parent ]

    It was on after-school.... (none / 0) (#141)
    by kdog on Wed May 21, 2008 at 09:07:48 AM EST
    on the local Fox affiliate when I was a little kid.  I watched religously...usually in my Batman Underoos with a bath towel cape and homemade utility belt.

    My first crush was Catwoman Julie Newmar...oh the way she purred:)

    "Same Bat-Time, Same Bat-Channel"

    [ Parent ]

    What a great win for Hillary (5.00 / 9) (#49)
    by gandy007 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:42:47 AM EST
    Just basking in the warm reflected glow of Hillary's great speech and schooling of Obama.

    Speaking of reflecting, it makes me mad to think that the scenario in Indiana would  have been much the same as tonight, if her win in Indiana had also been reported early.  Then I once again get mad at the perfidy of the Gary  mayor.

    But for that act, the headlines would have been different, Hillary would have gotten a big infusion of money in the aftermath of supporter enthusiasm, and an early victory speech would have quelled any uncertainty about whether she would continue.  Her troops would not have been put in disarray, even if temporarily. I hate to cry over spilt milk, but the whole tenor of the campaign would have changed, in my estimation.

    But we are where we are. It's great to see that so many here are re energized and seem ready to go resolutely on to the finish, whatever that might bring. At least we can say that we and Hillary gave it our best shot.

    This is a sturdy group that Obama would do well to have behind him.  No fair weather friends here. Unfortunately, it does not look likely that there will be more than lip service to unity.

    The good thing for me personally is that I'm starting to not be sad about where I'm headed politically, about not voting for Obama, or about Obama more than likely going down in flames if he scrapes out the nomination.

    I may be looking through rose colored glasses, but I no longer see it as the Democratic Party going down.  It is the demise of a single individual who in my estimation never really sincerely espoused or evinced the philosophy of my Democratic Party.  

    I'd beg you to reconsider (none / 0) (#60)
    by Lupin on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:10:35 AM EST
    I feel compelled to appeal to your knowledge of history.

    In 1980 many southern democrats deserted Carter because Reagan was a more appealing candidate and, let's face it, Carter's record was far from ideal. (As it turned out we now know that the Republicans used dirty tricks against him.)

    I myself supported John Anderson for a while.

    What we got is 8 years of Reagan, and the Bush/Cheney administration which is a direct by-product of the Reagan/Bush cabinet.

    I sincerely believe that another 4 years of Republican governance will destroy this country.

    I would vote for a carrot if it were the Democratic nominee.

    [ Parent ]

    Lupin.. (5.00 / 5) (#73)
    by Rainsong on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:57:45 AM EST
    I hear you and sympathise. I felt like that every previous election since 1976. But not this year.

    Like gandy007 I will be sitting it out, and the more I watch Hillary, the more I don't feel bad or sad about doing it either.

    The good thing for me personally is that I'm starting to not be sad about where I'm headed politically, about not voting for Obama, or about Obama more than likely going down in flames if he scrapes out the nomination.
    Emphasis mine.

    This is where I differ, Obama might possibly win, but he'll need to do it without my vote. He is a DINO, I think his Presidency would be a disaster, and no better than a McCain one.

    Obama and his enabling Party officials, crossed the line with me somewhere along the way this season.

    The irony for me is, if he hadn't done all the deal-breakers (starting with deliberately playing the race-card), I might never have found out what a great candidate Hillary really was.

    ...re energized and seem ready to go resolutely on to the finish, whatever that might bring. At least we can say that we and Hillary gave it our best shot.

    Indeed :)
     

    [ Parent ]

    I agree on Hillary (5.00 / 3) (#125)
    by BarnBabe on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:54:07 AM EST
    I started out with Edwards. It is interesting how I prefer a shorter campaign season and yet without this lengthly one, I would have never discovered a few things.

    1.Hillary is a great candidate, is knowlegeable about every issue, stands tall among the male giants, and would make a wonderful President.

    2. Edwards is passionate about helping all the people and should be involved in some government position. He still would have been a good President.

    3. And Obama is not the man I originally believed he was. Where I saw stature, I now see weakness and laziness. You can only smooze people for so long before your outer layer starts pealing off. He would make a so so President with many 'gates'happening. He is not ready for Prime Time quite yet.

    So this time, I think the long haul has been enlightening and I thank Hillary for not giving up.

    [ Parent ]

    i have a yahoo page on my (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by hellothere on Wed May 21, 2008 at 09:12:52 AM EST
    computer. every morning when i get up there is some slanted little bit of news about obama. it slants in such a way as he is winning just everything. the reality is so different. this morning it was a zogby poll while all the other polls showing obama behind were ignored.

    i become my cynical everyday.

    [ Parent ]

    The way (5.00 / 3) (#89)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:47:21 AM EST
    I see it is that Obama is another Carter. Someone who won't do much good and could even be worse for the country than McCain.

    [ Parent ]
    As a patriot, I don't vote for carrots (5.00 / 9) (#127)
    by Lisa on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:54:49 AM EST
    OK, so we have these lovely tactics to get us to vote for Obama:

    1. call us bad Democrats (oops, too late, that bus just left for a lot of us, we are now Independents - I guess the Obama backers were too busy calling us racists to notice)
    2. try to drive us out of the blogosphere with abuse
    3. play the Roe card
    4. dismiss the qualities we are looking for in a president
    5. in general, scare us, insult our intelligence, call us names, intimidate us

    None of this, of course, addresses the core reasons we are not voting for Obama (you might just look for some clues above).


    [ Parent ]
    I would (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 08:49:00 AM EST
    also vote for a carrot if it had a D next to its name.  A carrot would be harmless.

    To me, Obama isn't harmless.

    [ Parent ]

    i have been in a black mood lately. (none / 0) (#148)
    by hellothere on Wed May 21, 2008 at 09:22:28 AM EST
    i was wondering exactly what it was that bothered me so much. part of it is the underlying negative tone of the obama campaign. for example the title of his book, THE AUDACITY OF HOPE. hope? the reverend wright is a hater par excellence. he doesn't like whites and blames them for every wrong in his life. i would guess a lot of the wrongs in his life are a result of his own choices. but obama writes a book about hope with a title from a miniser who has anything but that. it is the negativity, the drumbeat of meaness, the exclusion of others all the while telling us it is our fault. obama seems to think americans eat too much, drive too much and love turning their heat up too much. whereas there is truth in that there is also something very wrong with it too. who is he to critize anyone? who does he think he is? and where do he and his wife, the good reverend and bill ayers get off criticizing me or anyone else. this man actually think we are supposed to vote for him. what has happened to this country? at least reagan had the image you know of the shining city whereas this man calls us bitter. think about it. there is no there there. this is the most negative candidate i have seen to run for president of the united states.

    [ Parent ]
    We aren't being offered the carrot (none / 0) (#165)
    by Nadai on Wed May 21, 2008 at 11:56:19 AM EST
    All we're getting is the stick.  So no.

    [ Parent ]
    obama supporters (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by DefenderOfPants on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:07:31 AM EST
    so my girlfriend lives in South Dakota where she teaches high school English, but she's a resident of Oregon. like me, she is a Clinton supporter. her mother, on the other hand is an Obama supporter, and get this: she purposely didn't send my girlfriend her ballot.

    true story.

    This must be their New way (none / 0) (#80)
    by Serene1 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:28:03 AM EST
    of doing politics.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, Unification via Omission of the other side (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by andrys on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:59:32 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Congratulations Jeralyn and TL Kid (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by ruffian on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:44:38 AM EST
    That photo was such a nice way to start the day that I think I am not going to read anymore news for a while.  Hope your son enjoys his first day as a lawyer!

    We knew this but.... (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Fabian on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:48:33 AM EST
    Addison, brave soul, posted a daily kos diary asserting that Hillary Clinton is a Democrat.

    With predictable results.  Well, if Hillary isn't a Dem, maybe I'm not either.

    Hillary a Democrat? (5.00 / 3) (#99)
    by stillife on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:37:13 AM EST
    What a revolutionary concept!  

    That reminds me - I had a dream last night where I was going around explaining to people that I'm no longer a Democrat.  I think I spend too much time on blogs.  Sometimes I actually dream about posting on TL and other blogs.

    [ Parent ]

    Congratulations TL Kid and Jeralyn (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by BGP on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:51:54 AM EST
    And thanks to both of you for being defenders. In a nation that seems determined to use the law as an instrument of revenge, you and your son are invaluable (and undervalued).

    Thanks, too, for this forum. I join the chorus saying it's been a sanity-saver this election season.

    Congratulations, Jeralyn and Nic! (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by stillife on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:37:58 AM EST
    You must both be very proud.  You both look great.

    Congratulations! (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by kenoshaMarge on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:47:36 AM EST
    Jeralyn and Nic. Nice pictures. Looks like one very proud Mom to me. :)

    can't say i'm shocked . . . (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by sgdavis73 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:49:52 AM EST
    but i'm still disgusted by the morning coverage of last night's primaries.

    front cover of NY time: big picture of obama celebrating, highlights him winning majority of pledged delegates, doesn't even mention hillary winning big in kentucky until 3rd paragraph (and then only to make a point from exit polls about the work he has left to do for the general).

    washington post headline this morning below - TOTALLY downplays her huge win.

    Obama Claims Majority Of Pledged Delegates
    Illinois senator passes threshold after big win in Oregon. His opponent, Hillary Clinton, won the night's other Democratic primary, in Kentucky.

    Thankfully (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:54:30 AM EST
    the voters aren't being affected by this stuff.

    [ Parent ]
    I Wonder (none / 0) (#137)
    by creeper on Wed May 21, 2008 at 08:35:37 AM EST
    if they're not being affected in more subtle ways.  CBS news says more than half the voters in an exit poll in Kentucky said that Hillary had attacked Obama unfairly.

    She must have questioned his experience and qualifications.

    [ Parent ]

    After (5.00 / 3) (#123)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:53:29 AM EST
    last night I think Hillary's chances of taking the nomination are much greater. If Obama couldn't alter his demographic problems in OR then they are unsolvable. (I've always thought they are unsolvable anyway).

    It has to be obvious that Obama will probably lose 75% of the east coast if he's the nominee and there aren't enough latte drinkers outside of OR and WA to help him out west. McCain is going to seriously contest CA. Who can blame him? If he wins the white vote and then splits the Hispanic vote and takes the majority of the aisan vote there won't be a way for Obama to carry that state. Arnie could pull a jeb if the state is close enough.

    I am not advocating that (none / 0) (#149)
    by zfran on Wed May 21, 2008 at 10:23:42 AM EST
    Hillary go after the VP, I personally would like to see her run as an independent, however, doesn't the constitition say that the person who comes in second shall be the vice president, or something like that? I mentioned yesterday that Geraldine Ferraro's comment how she might not vote for Obama, should he be the nominee, was a signal for dem voters to vote their conscience.

    [ Parent ]
    Good God.... (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by kdog on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:55:06 AM EST
    Chinese and American govt's in cahoots to apply Orwell's jackboot to the human face, the picture of the 21st century.

    Link

    Tyranny paid for by you and me.

    Stunning (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by creeper on Wed May 21, 2008 at 08:47:37 AM EST
    Whythehell are we holding ethnic Chinese at Gitmo in the first place?  

    This is unbelievable.  We have become the torture experts of the world.

    You know, in the early years of the war in Viet Nam I thought we were a civilized society.  There seemed to be proof of that in the actions of the NVA and Viet Cong.  Why, our Iowa State Fair even had an exhibit one year that was a "Vietnamese village" with all sorts of booby traps and torture imlpements.  We studied them all intently, aghast at the brutality they represented.  "See what savages these people are?" we said.

    Then Lt. Calley went to My Lai.

    [ Parent ]

    Woo hoo!! Congratulations! Wow, what a day. (n/t) (none / 0) (#2)
    by DandyTIger on Wed May 21, 2008 at 12:55:51 AM EST


    10 million? (none / 0) (#17)
    by BethanyAnne on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:24:03 AM EST
    After the April 22nd primary, Hillary's folk were on TV bragging about the 10 million in 24 hours.

    Here is her filing for April.

    Do you see that 10 mil?  What happened?

    Bethany

    Look at the aggregate for Apr. 23-30. (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:40:35 AM EST
    The FEC requires that campaigns report donations as they are collected, and that doesn't necessarily coincide with the day they're pledged.  If you notice, the Clinton campaign reported $15,685,987.29 received in primary campaign donations for the week following the PA primary. The aforementioned $10 million spike is in there.

    [ Parent ]
    Also Notable (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by The Maven on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:12:01 AM EST
    that Clinton's total for the month was only $5 million behind Obama, $26.91 million to his $31.92 million, which is not too shabby since the media had long since declared Obama to be the all-but-certain nominee.  So either Clinton's backers are really, really dedicated, or they simply enjoy the idea of sending it off to a "hopeless" cause.  My hunch is that it's more the former.

    [ Parent ]
    She raised more than McCain, lol!~ (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by nycstray on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:31:43 AM EST
    damn she's good!  :)

    [ Parent ]
    The 26 million includes the $5million loan (none / 0) (#83)
    by JoeA on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:49:17 AM EST
    from the candidate.

    Hillary actually raised $21 million according to that filing, and $22 million according to the Clinton campaigns press release. link

    [ Parent ]

    hmm (none / 0) (#30)
    by BethanyAnne on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:45:05 AM EST
    I could see that working out that way.

    [ Parent ]
    That would make sense. (none / 0) (#32)
    by nycstray on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:54:27 AM EST
    Since a majority of the donations were online, they would have the numbers right away, but the bank transfers would take a bit. I never really checked to see how long it took.

    [ Parent ]
    Anyone who's worked in ... (none / 0) (#35)
    by Robot Porter on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:59:09 AM EST
    fundraising of any kind knows there's always a gap between "raising" and "reporting."

    You can see similar "discrepancies" in Obama's numbers.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm always on the creative end :) (none / 0) (#41)
    by nycstray on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:27:58 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Congratulations, Jeralyn. (none / 0) (#19)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:26:23 AM EST
    You've had the now-rare privilege of seeing your son choose to follow in his mother's professional footsteps. You must be so proud of him. Don't forget to save some of that pride for yourself, for you obviously were a good parent whose nurturing afforded him the opportunity for success. Well done, ma'am!

    P.S.: Off-topic, but I must tell you, your taking issue with me last week over my views about prosecution-suborned testimony in criminal trials, actually encouraged me to buy Ethan Brown's book, Snitch. I'll let you know what I think when I finish reading it -- but I must admit, the first couple chapters are indeed eye-opening. Thank you for the suggestion.

    There's a TL book club, too? (none / 0) (#59)
    by Cream City on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:10:04 AM EST
    So cool.  Hmmmm, once past primaries, maybe we could have a summer reading thread -- I get in a rut with my histories and mysteries, so I could use a bit of a boot in a new and adventurous direction for me.  

    I'm writing down this one in your post.  Oh, and thanks to all of the discussion about racialized regions and areas, I wandered down some online path through  one click to another that night . . . and now have on the way to my library James Loewen's book Sundown Towns, said to be an extraordinary amount of research about municipalities that by law and/or custom maintained lily-white status.  Found a website from the book, too, with lists by state of such towns.  Startling numbers.  I knew of some in my state -- but hundreds?  Hardly enough AAs here in most of that era to populate so many towns.  Such is the power of fear of the unknown.

    Anyway, at least my summer reading list will have me breaking out beyond history to get into law somewhat. :-)

    [ Parent ]

    Those pictures look great (none / 0) (#22)
    by andgarden on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:35:49 AM EST
    Congrats again!

    Very cool. John King (none / 0) (#28)
    by oculus on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:42:53 AM EST
    responds to Larry King's question:  but what if you count FL and MI.  King pushes something on his big map, lengthening the path to the finish line.  

    heh (none / 0) (#33)
    by Turkana on Wed May 21, 2008 at 01:54:53 AM EST
    big congrats- proud mom, and proud son!

    a lovely and inspiring photo (none / 0) (#39)
    by Lupin on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:16:01 AM EST
    That is a lovely and inspiring photo.

    I think Clinton's results in both KY and OR were very impressive. I had her wining 33 delegates in KY when in actuality she got 37, which shows how bad of a predictor I am.

    However, DemConWatch calls it right: "Obama clinches non-MI/FL pledged delegate majority (and most MI/FL scenarios also)" -- there is only one scenario out of five, if the FL & MI delegations are seated based on the elections that have taken place, in which the nomination isn't clinched, and we all know that it isn't going to happen.

    Both Clinton's and Obama's platforms are substantially similar (I'm not crazy about either but that's another discussion); however, this drawn out primary has shown that there is a serious rift (for lack of a better word) between their respective supporters. It is not altogether just sexism or racism; there are different worldviews too.

    (Need I remind folks here that neither Obama nor Clinton were my #1 or #2 choice initially.)

    The reason why it is important that we close that rift is that, someday, there will be an Iraq War memorial just as there is a Viet-Nam War memorial, and if McCain is elected President -- and after 2004 nothing strikes me as impossible anymore -- that Memorial will have many more names inscribed on it.

    Many more young Americans will die if McCain is elected than if a Democrat, any Democrat, is. It's that simple.

    It is criminal, yes, criminal to risk the election  because there is justifiable anger towards the other candidate, his surrogates, the DNC and the media. There are lives at stake.

    Senator Clinton has gathered a large and dedicated and real support for her and I would like to see her continue to play a major role in this campaign and in national politics beyond -- and I have no doubt that she will, because she always struck me as a dedicated and pragmatic woman.

    Jeralyn's photo is one of hope for a better future which reflects our values; I appeal to the sensible posters here to continue to support Sen. Clinton (just as I will always support Gov. Dean, Al Gore or John Edwards)  but to not reject the promise of that future out of bitterness.

    I would hope that Jeralyn will eventually post an editorial in which she states that one can continue to support Sen. Clinton and her goals without rejecting Sen. Obama.

    Iraq war memorial doesn't fly (5.00 / 7) (#43)
    by hookfan on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:35:52 AM EST
    What funding request for Bush's war has Obama turned down? He's owned the war as well as the rest of the Democratic Congress that voted repeatedly to keep it going. One speech does not a savior make. Besides remember powers statements, i.e., only in the best case scenario would troops be fully withdrawn by team Obama. Yup, sad but Old John and Obama are not that far apart on troops in Iraq at least as far as funding goes.

    [ Parent ]
    You're not looking at the big picture (none / 0) (#46)
    by Lupin on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:41:12 AM EST
    I haven't been happy with either Clinton or Obama's stance about the war, let's be clear about that.

    But a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress (which we stand a very good chance of getting) are absolutely necessary to put an end to this nightmare.

    A McCain Presidency/Democratic Congress would

    This is why we must vote Democrat, no matter what.

    [ Parent ]

    IMO you are ignoring facts (5.00 / 4) (#54)
    by hookfan on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:51:15 AM EST
    There is sparse evidence that the Democratic Congress or Obama would end it. Look at their not so stellar voting record. Heck, they even rewarded Lieberman. that action too does not bespeak a burning desire to end Iraq war. The "big picture" can be nothing more than a delusion if it is not grounded in fact. Also, look at the money and all the Dem ties to war contractors (Feinstein is a good example). Sorry, if they are going to lose money and face Republican smears about losing I just don't see it happening. When has this congress ever voted with spine on the war?

    [ Parent ]
    You may well be right... (none / 0) (#58)
    by Lupin on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:03:06 AM EST
    ...And I will be massively upset if that is the case, but then what is the solution?

    What you're describing is no longer a Clinton/Obama issue, but the massive failure of our allegedly representative democracy and media.

    I totally agree with you there.

    In my perfect world, Dennis Kucinich would be President. Some, on the other side, might wish for Ron Paul, no doubt.

    Meanwhile, we're stuck with probabilities, and a Democratic victory (WH + Congress) carries better odds than a divided victory (Rep WH + Dem Congress).

    I'm trying to appeal to pragmaticism here. As I'm sure Sen. Clinton will eventually.

    [ Parent ]

    The solution (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by hookfan on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:16:18 AM EST
    I suspect can only be long term. We clearly need more Democratic Reps and Senators that reflect Democratic values. Obama's fuzziness on social security, women's issues, gay rights, Hispanic values, and lack of clear support for working class issues leaves me clearly non-plussed. By the way Hillary has pledged to end the war. But what end it means is subject to interpretation and I bet fluctuation depending on international circumstances. I guess down ticket issues and building the base may be a beginning to pressure "leadership" to actually represent us.

    [ Parent ]
    Health care and the economy . . . (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by nycstray on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:20:57 AM EST
    lot's of fuzz . . .

    They really aren't close on issues when it comes right down to it. There's a reason we haven't given up yet.

    [ Parent ]

    Absolutely! (none / 0) (#64)
    by Lupin on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:26:38 AM EST
    To clarify: I'm 100% OK with not giving up if only to carry forward the values of the rejected candidate into the new administration, as long as in November we punch the right hole.

    [ Parent ]
    I don't trust Obama to do that. (5.00 / 9) (#72)
    by nycstray on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:56:07 AM EST
    He hasn't given any sign that he will stand strong for any Dem values. The H&L health care smear didn't help either . . . Hillary was actually campaigning with a "hold me accountable" stump at one point. I've always kinda felt that if she got to the WH, she would be a bit more liberal than her norm. When you look at her past history and what's she's concentrated on compared to Obama, well, there is no comparison (imo).

    When this first started, I thought I would be fine with any of the three Ds and I was only wishing Obama had more experience. That's no longer the case.

    [ Parent ]

    I completely agree with you (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Lupin on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:25:03 AM EST
    We did have Kucinich, but I suppose he is our Ron Paul, totally unelectable. (But why?)

    A more real question is -- what did Edwards fail so miserably? Leaving Dennis aside he was my #1 "real politik" choice.

    I think -- I could be mistaken -- that Edwards failed because he was too "brutal" with the American public unlike Clinton and Obama who have adopted a soft-pedal centrist platform.

    The question is -- are we ready to hear the truth? The simple answer may be: no. Not yet.

    Personally, I think America is going to face some tectonic changes in the next 4 years and neither Obama nor Clinton are likely to be the future "leader" who, like FDR, will thoroughly reform the country. That man or woman will be their successor.

    (Sort of like Earth was to Deep Thought :-))

    I think of them, if you will, as placeholders, a little like the Premiers who followed Brezhnev before Gorbachev took over.

    That may be why I don't feel sanguine about either.

    But they are as necessary step forward; (re)electing a Republican at this stage would only plunge us deeper into chaos.

    [ Parent ]

    Okay a problem for me (5.00 / 7) (#69)
    by hookfan on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:41:45 AM EST
    is that Obama might also plunge us into chaos. His lack of clarity by not campaigning on clearly Democratic values and issues does not give reassurance about that. His clear inexperience in foreign policy coupled with his thinned skin petulance does not give reassurance on that. Saying that several years as a child in indonesia qualifies him as experienced in foreign affairs is like saying a child who sold lemon-aide qualifies her to be a CEO of an international corporation. That does not lessen fear that Obama would be the catalyst for chaos.

    [ Parent ]
    Foreign policy (none / 0) (#145)
    by Lupin on Wed May 21, 2008 at 09:18:07 AM EST
    I particularly dislike Obama's foreign policy as stated on his website; I've just argued about it with an Obamaton on Dkos that it is well-meaning but wrong-headed in its emphasis on the "America must lead" notion which I think is both wrong and dangerous.

    (here is the link if you think I'm lying.)

    That said, I think Senator McCain's foreign policy is far, far worse, so it's no contest.

    Some of you appear to feel that there is no or little difference between McCain and Obama; this reminds me of the Naderites who thought in 2000 that there were no substantial differences between Gore and Bush.

    Gore was not perfect and I never liked Lieberman from day 1, but voting for him was easy because of the alternative.

    History has proven the Naderites wrong, just as history will prove you wrong too; I just wish I didn't have to risk paying for it again.

    [ Parent ]

    Well, Lieberman (none / 0) (#171)
    by hookfan on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:47:35 PM EST
    does not help your case by him being a Bush warbot. How much influence in a Gore admin would he have had? Guess we'll never know.
      Second no way are McCain and Obama the same. Obama has no, nada, zilch experience when it comes to military issues or understanding. Heck, even GW had more experience. That leads me to suspect (since you pretend to know the future I can too!) Obama will morph into another hot dog cowboy to prove his creds. His arrogance fits well with this, as does his tactic of appeasement toward Repubs. He won't take the heat, and the Dem congress as historically will fall into line (as per above posts think money ties to contractors, and avoiding Repub smears of "losers"). I really suspect the Repubs will again control war policy and funding by yelling the loudest toward a spineless congress and an inexperienced Obama.
      It all comes down to congress stopping McCain or controlling Obama through the purse strings. This congress has refused to do that, even with huge public support. That won't change until new leadership and new faces are in congress.

    [ Parent ]
    Have a 5 for the reference to Hitchhiker (none / 0) (#66)
    by splashy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:37:29 AM EST
    Love it!

    Marvin the depressed robot is my favorite.

    I liked Kuchinich too, and agree that it looks like we are going to go through some major changes.

    [ Parent ]

    Here's another Hitchiker's reference: (5.00 / 3) (#76)
    by Robot Porter on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:07:43 AM EST
    42.

    It's also the percent of the vote Obama is likely to get in the general election.

    [ Parent ]

    The media failed Edwards (none / 0) (#96)
    by Munibond on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:32:16 AM EST
    I don't think you can blame Edwards for "failure" or give Obama credit for "success".  The entire process has been manipulated by cable news and the print media, particularly back in the early days when it was more difficult for a campaign to get the average voter's attention.  Those news outlets, particularly television news, have their own agendas, and it remains to be seen how their interests will have been served by an Obama candidacy.
    Kucinich has played an important role as a change agent in this and prior primary seasons, but he does not have executive/leadership skills.

    [ Parent ]
    I dunno... (none / 0) (#102)
    by Alec82 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:58:25 AM EST
    ...Edwards' platform seemed awfully centrist in the end.  Maybe I am too far left on issues.  I doubt it, though.  I assume one of the reasons I was so undecided leading up to the CA primary was that they're all virtually indistinguishable apart from physical appearance and tone.  

     Unfortunately for Edwards, he wasn't quite exotic enough.  Not just in terms of race or gender, but he was running on the economy...something that wouldn't take off until much later (in primary timespeak).  That, and he ran with a loser in '04.  

     All the frontrunner Democrats appear to be centrists.  My hope with Senator Obama is that his foreign policy team will be radically different from what we've seen in recent years.  That is probably a pipe dream, but alas, there it is.  

             

    [ Parent ]

    Edwards (none / 0) (#114)
    by Molly Pitcher on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:32:13 AM EST
    I sort of liked him, especially last time.  Might have been fun having a real bigwig coming back to his roots here once in a while.  )OTH, having shared the Pacific Coast Highway with JFK, I can see some cons.  But I do not think JE was too brutal.  Indeed, I think much of the public looked at him and saw the Prom King candidate--you know, masculine version of the dumb blonde.

    [ Parent ]
    The Democratic Party should bear (5.00 / 6) (#70)
    by felizarte on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:43:46 AM EST
    a significant part of the blame and the consequences of their actions.  There is no way the party or its members can make me feel guilty about not voting for Obama if he is the nominee.  I want Michigan and Florida counted in a fair manner; I want the party to demand fair treatment of one of its candidates in the media; and I want the party to be defiinitive and transparent as to the method and considerations for implementing rules.

    As a party member, it is not my responsibility to uphold the party if the party is not willing to uphold me and others.

    [ Parent ]

    In the way that Nixon opened up China (none / 0) (#113)
    by andrys on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:26:05 AM EST
    -- he was such a conservative Republican that when he did this, there was no question it was okay while it would have been suspect if a Democrat had done it -- McCain would likely end the war in Iraq earlier than our Clinton or Obama could.

       Again, I am voting for the Dem lower ticket and hoping we get a firm majority.

    [ Parent ]

    the bigger problem is - (5.00 / 3) (#132)
    by Josey on Wed May 21, 2008 at 08:25:12 AM EST
    Obama created his own "white" problem by making Race a central part of his campaign, rather than issues and solutions.

    When Obama rolled our Oprahpalooza it was obvious his "unity" meme was a scam.
    Then along came Wright's racist rants that Obama listened to for 20 years - clearly reflected in Obama's ideology and personality such as "brushing Hillary off" the bottom of his shoe.
    Followed by Obama's "bitter" remarks calling Democrats "racists" because they weren't voting for him.

    Obama has created much hate and divisiveness - and he'll be expecting the Cli