Harmful, Divisive And Fallacious Petition From Color Of Change

Color of Change is circulating an outrageous, deplorable and fallacious petition:

Leaders of the Democratic Party are playing a dangerous game -- risking the credibility of the party to hand Hillary Clinton the nomination against the will of voters. Heading down this path means disenfranchising millions of voters and legitimizing a campaign strategy that has displayed a clear pattern of race baiting and divisive politics.

If Hillary Clinton wins the popular vote and the Super Delegates hand the nomination to Barack Obama, the Democratic Party will have acted against the will of the voters. Despite that, I would whole heartedly support Barack Obama's candidacy in November. In addition, Color of Change falsely smears the Clinton campaign while engaging in race baiting and divisive politics itself. Color of Change smears not only Hillary Clinton, but the millions of Democrats who support her.

As a Latino, I denounce and reject Color of Change's petition. It is an outrageous, divisive, racially polarizing and deplorable act. At a time when all Democrats should be thinking about unifying the democratic Party behind our eventual nominee, who in all likelihood will be Barack Obama, Color of Change acts to exacerbate divisions. This petition hurts the Democratic Party and it hurts Barack Obama's chances to win in November. Color of Change's petititon should be rejected by Democrats of all stripes.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only.

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    disenfranchising millions of voters? (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by Arjun on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:22:13 AM EST
    If they were really concerned with disenfranchising voters, they would count MI and FL and see that Hillary is already ahead in the popular vote. So much for the "will of the voters". But wait, what was I thinking trying to count all the people who voted? That's divisive politics.

    Wow so I guess if your candidate doesn't win.... (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:48:06 AM EST
    ...then you are disenfranchised. That's all I get out of this.

    "popular voters" (none / 0) (#90)
    by diogenes on Fri May 02, 2008 at 02:23:10 PM EST
    Only the delegates count because 13 states use caucauses; thus, the Democratic party "disenfranchises" popular voters in thirteen states.  Hillary didn't comp[lain about the disenfrancised thirteen states in 2007.  Tough luck for her.

    As another Latino (5.00 / 6) (#2)
    by rooge04 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:23:47 AM EST
    it makes me absolutely ILL that Obama's campaign has turned this into a black-white issue. It's disgusting. And the whole fear-mongering of these groups making veiled threats and spreading nasty rumors makes me even more ill.  Disgusting.  

    I agree too. (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:49:33 AM EST
    Especially since Latinos tend to favor Hillary, as I do. I don't get a great message from this petition about my value as a voter.

    And I am also Latino (none / 0) (#81)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:34:53 PM EST
    and also feel the same way about the race baiting from the Obama campaign.

    Everytime the Democratic party and the media chooses to focus on all of Obama's strengths and all ignores Hillary's (among them her affinity with Latino voters) then I just feel they are ignoring the elephant in the room.

    Going forward, the Latino vote will be essential to electoral victory.  A unity ticket was the smart and responsible, and dare I say ONLY option for people like Pelosi and Dean to promote.

    But instead they seem hellbent on allowing the Clinton legacy to be destroyed while dragging Obama into the finish line AND saying the Unity Ticket is a bad idea!! Can you believe the audacity?


    Obama lost my vote a long time ago. (none / 0) (#89)
    by mexboy on Fri May 02, 2008 at 02:20:16 PM EST
    And as  a Mexican I find the whole race baiting disgusting.
    My brother who doesn't read blogs and is not very political was pissed and called him out on using race baiting too.

    But of course I must be racist since I won't fall in line and vote for him.

    How about a counter application guys?

    Who is savvy about those things in here and where do I sign?


    Sad (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by standingup on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:25:26 AM EST
    but is it that much of a surprise from an organization where one of the co-founders came from MoveOn?  

    It's absolutely vile. (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by rooge04 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:26:37 AM EST
    The party elders realized that the only way they could knock Hillary out of the race was to break the Clinton's long-standing respect in the AA community. They managed to do that with Obama's candidacy.  Good for them.  You used race to destroy our party.  

    This petition (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by AnninCA on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:26:22 AM EST
    is one way to bully.  I suppose the same could be said for how many times I saw it recommended that Hillary supporters call the DNC and complain.

    blech on all of these tactics

    I sent only one e-mail to the DNC when I decided to move to Independent.  I told them why.  

    I believe in voting with my feet, not endless petitions.

    Huffpo heads are popping (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by jjsmoof on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:26:57 AM EST
    Wow, i read this story first at huffpo and the comments section left me stunned.  My sentiment too "it makes me absolutely ILL that Obama's campaign has turned this into a black-white issue."

    the DC establishment and elites (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Josey on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:33:56 AM EST
    support Obama - evidenced by the SDs rolling out for him and taking potshots at the Clintons. But the Obama meme has always been the Clintons have a big mean machine out to get poor little Obama!!

    Vile (5.00 / 7) (#11)
    by ruffian on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:34:18 AM EST
    and all other things that have been said.

    Also counterproductive to the Obama campaign in the GE.  Independent voters get turned off by Democrats being intimidated by racial bullying. If the Obama campaign carries even a hint of this, he is finished in the GE.

    Has the obama campaign made a statement about this?

    I hope the Obama campaign denounces this (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:38:04 AM EST
    Maybe Russert will ask him about it (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by ruffian on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:49:02 AM EST
    He loves to hold up a petition like this and read it on the air.  Saves him the thought of coming up with his own questions.

    It's a fair question (none / 0) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:49:32 AM EST
    Yup (none / 0) (#43)
    by ruffian on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:11:25 AM EST
    I love it when the stars align and fair questions match up with Russert's natural style.  

    Don't hold your breath BTD (5.00 / 4) (#28)
    by Prabhata on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:53:47 AM EST
    The Obama camp has been playing the race card in the open since SC.

    Centerpiece of Obama campaign (5.00 / 5) (#38)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:06:32 AM EST
    I tell you they have and will use this.  The race card was played by the Obama campaign and is being played.  The SDs are so scared of being smeared racist or anti black they will do it at the risk of losing the election.  The irony is Obama is not giving anything to the Black community other than being black.  Actually, he runs away from being the black candidate.  I would have no problem if he was fighting for the black voters, but in my opinion he is running away from them.  

    I've Given Up on the Obama Campaign (none / 0) (#65)
    by BDB on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:49:06 AM EST
    denouncing anything.  Other than Obama's minister.  

    I'd love to be proven wrong though.


    The Dem Party has only itself to blame... (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by outsider on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:39:26 AM EST
    Because it has led people to believe that, in participating in this process, they are participating in an election.  They aren't.  They are helping the local party choose its delegates to a national convention.  There ain't never been no requirement that "the will of the people" be listened to, yet at various junctures all sides in this contest have been happy to let voters believe that they are actually electing somebody.  They brought all these accusations of disenfranchising voters on themselves.

    None of this is to say I don't think the popular vote isn't important - its undoubtedly the single most important indicator of who is most electable, and hence who should be chosen at the convention.  But that's not the same as deliberately and misleadingly trumpeting the claim that the popular vote is morally binding on the party powers that be.  The party knows it isn't, but used that kind of rhetoric to get people fired up.

    Bottom line: if the Dem Party is serious about letting the people choose their nominee then in future years they will radically alter the nomination process by eliminating superdelegates etc.  Until they do that they shouldn't con people into thinking that the process is all about the will of the people.  It was predictable that, after being fed all this will of the people stuff, participants in the primaries would be outraged to see their votes overturned.  In fact this is one of the saddest aspects of the race - everyone is, needlessly, convinced they're about to be screwed over by the other side...

    So true (5.00 / 5) (#36)
    by ruffian on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:05:11 AM EST
    This is a party candidate selection process, not an election. The Democratic party has tried to convince people they have a say in it because then they get registered Dems on the books that they can hit up for money and GOTV efforts later.

    We in FL have learned the difference.

    It is also a stacked deck, micro-arranged down to the district with the allocation of delegates and order of primaries, as I have also learned this season. That's why this "Color of Change" petition is so ironic - the only reason Obama is leading in pledged delegates is that the Democratic allocation of delegates was stacked to favor the A-A minority to begin with. This was intentional affirmative action to give minorities (that minority anyway) more of a voice.  If I had known about that allocation process, I may have been in favor of it - I am in favor of having a diverse party, and giving minorities a strong voice is the only way to achieve that - but rank and file Dems never had a vote on it.  

    So in a process that is DNC controlled from top to bottom, this group is complaining because SD's aren't also part of that allocation skewing.

    I just don't know what to say anymore.  I have never been a big third party advocate, but I am about there now.


    Whatever the outcome of this primary (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Radiowalla on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:08:00 AM EST
    the Democratic Party MUST dump this arcane, undemocratic system and establish a fair primary system in which each Democrat can vote.  

    Until then, I am withholding all donations to the DNC and its committees.


    Good point (none / 0) (#19)
    by AnninCA on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:43:10 AM EST
    there.  It's representative, not direct.

    What's the will of the people? (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by andgarden on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:40:50 AM EST
    those who reject looking at the popular vote have no legitimate standard with which to assess this question. No, pledged delegate counts do not tell us the will of the people.

    Obama (5.00 / 7) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:43:04 AM EST
    has already made himself unelectable by his campaign playing these games. Color of Change is just another nail in his coffin. It's no longer about running off Democrats so much as he is defining the general election as black vs. white. Advantage to McCain on that one. He won't denounce it unless it starts sinking his poll numbers even more.

    That's great. African Americans vs. Whites. (5.00 / 7) (#24)
    by tigercourse on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:49:14 AM EST
    Men vs. Women. Latinos vs African Americans. Rural foke vs. Big City dwellers. Young vs Old. Everybody in our Big Tent circus is at each other's throats.

    This is a tactic that has worked very, very well for Obama in the past. But I don't see it helping him in the present and I'm sure it will hurt him in the future. Whoever Color of Change is, they are fools.

    This is NOT Obama (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:50:18 AM EST
    This is Color of Change. It is not fair to attribute this to Obama.

    I didn't attribute it to Obama. But raising the (5.00 / 7) (#31)
    by tigercourse on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:55:01 AM EST
    issue of race has worked for him. I just don't think it will anymore. And these people, whether they have any genuine connection to Obama or not, are not doing anyone any favors.

    Yes it is (none / 0) (#84)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:41:09 PM EST
    WOuldn't YOU denounce something like this BTD if a group like this tried to tie you to it...or would you just put your head in the sand?

    I for one would NOT stand for it.  I can tell anyone who reads this post:  in my immediate family we have at least 26 registered voters and NONE Of them will vote Obama this fall if he wins.  My mother is a die-hard Catholic and that pastor of his turned her off so bad it wasn't even funny.  

    In our culture, there is a saying in Spanish, but I will say it in English:  "Tell me who you hang around and I will tell you what you are."



    Victimhood or Empowerment (none / 0) (#39)
    by Salt on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:06:53 AM EST
    As life philosophies for those who are choosing add all the characteristics traits that go with those labels blame, punishment, persecution, unfair, authority, self esteem, and confidence IMO that's the divide and that's why it also can not be bridged or healed they are incompatible paths.  

    Re-enfranchise FL and MI (5.00 / 5) (#27)
    by lambert on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:51:51 AM EST
    Then we'll talk.

    It is becoming increasingly (5.00 / 13) (#29)
    by lefty lawyer on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:54:18 AM EST
    apparent to me that some folks are more interested in taking over the Democratic Party than they are in winning the 2008 election.  Big fish in a smaller pond and all that.

    On one side you have the traditional Democratic bulwarks of the working class, women, Hispanics and senior citizens.  Whatever else you want to say, these folks are most directly affected by Washington's policy actions or inactions, and they want to win.

    On the other side you have African-Americans and what are increasingly referred to as the "creative class" progressives.  MoveOn, Daily Kos, these groups are about getting rid of what they see (rightly, IMHO) as outdated, antiquated and ineffective leadership of the Democratic Party.  But it is becoming more and more apparent that this is all about replacing one system of hierarchy with another -- themselves.

    At what point will African-American voters, who other than with respect to the Obama campaign are normally aligned with the other bulwark Democratic groups, see that their own long-term interests and those of their alleged allies are not necessarily one and the same?  This alliance of convenience is heading for a cliff -- socially African American voters do not support many creative class initiatives such as gay marriage, as anyone familiar with Maryland politics can tell you.

    Given these problems, the continued threats to bolt the party if the AA/CC coalition doesn't get its way are probably hollow, but they are certainly enough in the short run to make the election of John McCain more probable.  At that point, CC activists will then blame the whole mess on Hillary Clinton and seek to wrest control of the party apparatus from the old guard.  This is only possible in the short run with a loss -- a win for Democrats most likely leaves the status quo largely intact, at least for a while.  No gates are crashed, no books are sold, no positions of influence are gained.

    So when I listen to these kinds of threats (after months of being told that it was Clinton voters who wouldn't support Obama), I take them seriously, but I also believe that this is as much about control as it is about victory.  Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

    Power (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by AnninCA on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:00:14 AM EST
    is obviously what it's about.  Moveon.org couldn't get anyone to even talk to them.  Now, they are running million bucks in ads.

    This petition is yet another method.

    What I don't get is that is why we do exit polling.  I realize that exit polls are imperfect.  However, it's a darn sight more reliable than some ridiculous petition.


    Such an excellent comment (5.00 / 4) (#44)
    by Dr Molly on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:12:29 AM EST
    It has to be about control, not victory, at this point. And inclusiveness, unity, bringing people together, big tent - all those quaint little ideas are gone.

    Maybe this also teaches us a much bigger lesson about power seduction writ large.


    Couldn't have said it any better (n/t) (none / 0) (#74)
    by DWCG on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:01:44 AM EST

    Doesn't compute for me (none / 0) (#79)
    by Foxx on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:52:50 AM EST
    It is the old guard who are supporting Obama. Kennedy, Kerry, Daschle, Dean. It is in fact Clinton who is threatening real change, the old guard doesn't want that.

    No media attention (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:05:20 AM EST
    I personally find it offensive, but then I found the SC memo offensive.  I'm guess I'm not outraged as this is just business as usual.  Politicians and 527s will do whatever than can to get rid of another candidate.

    I will wait to see if it gets any media attention and if it has any impact.  I wonder if people are decided for the primary and the GE.

    Nope (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:19:14 AM EST
    those are Obama rules. The SD's can change use any metric they wish to since Obama won't get to the magic number by pledged delegates.

    Sorry, but you will have to cite (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by ruffian on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:20:15 AM EST
    the "rules for this process"  that say pledged delegates are the only allowable metric SDs can use to measure the will of the people.  Is that in the DNC by-laws someplace?

    color me not surprised (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by angie on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:21:19 AM EST
    there have been veiled (and not so veiled) threats of this from pundits in the msm since at least SC. Obviously, Obama can't be blamed for this, but he needs to come out strongly against this petition & state in no uncertain terms that if Hillary gets the nomination, we all need to unite behind her, etc. -- you know, the stuff that Hillary has been saying about him for a while now.  

    Same as Clyburn (none / 0) (#80)
    by Foxx on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:54:37 AM EST
    In fact this petition is almost exactly what Clyburn said a few days ago. So yes, I would assume it is approved by Obama.

    The rules? (5.00 / 5) (#53)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:24:34 AM EST
    Can you cite the rule that says "The rules for this process say that the will of the people shall be measured by pledged delegates."

    There is no such rule and you freaking know it.

    Your comment is ridiculous.

    The rules says superdelegates can vote for anyone they want, including the person favored by the people, as demonstrated by the popular vote.

    I am heartily sick of dishonest comments like yours.

    SD fight (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:44:35 AM EST
    Remember back in the day, who was it that said that the Black Congressmen would find someone younger running against them?  This is a deliberate effort targeted at the Black Congressional Caucus members.  I am curious how many there are left on the Hillary side.  I don't think Obama has been able to make in roads into taking them away, and now this campaign is launched specifically to scare them into switching.  I stand by the Axelrod team tactic.  Get a grassroots group or create one, stir up outrage or support and you got your point across.  Wondering what kind of donations this group has been getting lately?

    John Lewis... (none / 0) (#77)
    by AlladinsLamp on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:12:31 AM EST
    has a challenger.

    "Able" Mable Thomas, at her annoumcement said:

    "We have suffered too long. The Congressman (Lewis) has not been missing in action, he's been missing from action.

    "This is about change...change we can believe in," Thomas continued. "The word is out. I'm coming to get you."


    Shameful.... (none / 0) (#92)
    by oldpro on Fri May 02, 2008 at 02:35:09 PM EST
    Congressman John Lewis, of all people, under attack by AAs.  Good thing Martin isn't alive to see this...

    Able Mable can believe this:  such disrespect is not forgiveable and you shall reap what you sow.


    sad (none / 0) (#93)
    by jedimom on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:17:06 PM EST
    I guess it wasnt enough for them that Lewis changed to support Obama than
    very sad how they are tearing the CBC apart

    Who was it? (none / 0) (#91)
    by oldpro on Fri May 02, 2008 at 02:24:20 PM EST
    Among others, the muscle was/is Jesse, Jr.

    Threats and blackmail..."how sharper than a serpent's tooth..."


    You do not know how to use quotes (none / 0) (#95)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:41:31 PM EST
    No one has promoted it as the "official" metric.

    Are the facts impossible for you deal with?


    Rules? (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by AnninCA on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:43:44 AM EST
    Unless Obama wins the required number of delegates, then SDs are not at all going against any rules if they choose to remain with or choose to pick Hillary.  IN FACT, that IS the rule.

    They are to exercise Independent Judgment.

    Otherwise, the RULES would obviously be that no superdelegate could award their "pledge" until the convention, and then see who has more delegates and all go with that person.

    That's obviously not the case.  Kennedy and Kerry went with Obama, although their state is clearly for Hillary.

    Therefore, your statement about the RULES is incorrect.

    Determining the will of the people can just as much be about popular vote as anything else.  Frankly, the SDs don't even need to go with the will of the people.  They could go with nothing more than sheer electibility issues.

    superdelegates are part of the rules (none / 0) (#85)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:53:03 PM EST
    Whether the Obama supporters like it or not. Well said Ann!

    You go to a convention with the rules you've got, not the rules you wish you had, says Rummy.


    Racial politics is the Achilles heel of. . . (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:01:37 AM EST
    the Democrats.  It's led in part (often in large part) to sixteen years of Republican mayoral rule in New York City.  I don't mean simply racism (whites not voting for blacks) but the sense, implicit in this petition, that people need to "get out of the way" of one candidate or another as well as the competition among minority communities (particularly blacks and Hispanics) for political power.

    One can't help but note that while this petition comes from a group called "Colors of Change" that in the majority of communities normally subsumed under the phrase "people of color" a majority of voters are actually supporting Clinton.  I refer to Hispanics, Asians and South Asians.

    It's a touchy subject and as such probably deserves to be called the third rail of Democratic Party politics.

    Hillary MUST Win? And This Isn't About Race? (1.00 / 3) (#54)
    by The Political Mangu on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:24:58 AM EST
    This contest is so far the closest, if I recall, in history, and it's exciting, but a bit depressing all at the same time.

    The petition aside, your statement that, "if Hillary Clinton wins the popular vote and the Super Delegates hand the nomination to Barack Obama, the Democratic Party will have acted against the will of the voters," is a bit interesting in that I'm not clear on why that matters?

    Hillary's going long and far out of her way to ensure she either wins the nomination or Obama looses the election. You can see it on her face as she speaks about her outlook and that half-clenched-typical-Clinton-half-smile-because-I-am-probably-lying smirk on her face. She talks with all the sincerity in the world, and yet only has 1 thing in mind - power and the White House, and her and Bill continue to grow their legacy.

    As a Latino I'm not overly impressed when Latino's say that they will support Obama "if they have to" if Hillary looses the nomination of the Party, because I am Dominican and know that while race relations in America are as messed up as they can be, those relations in my own microcosm of life as a Dominican are a bit worse off - and all Dominicans reading this know what I am talking about, "Que? Que? Yo? Votar por ese maldito prieto? No... Yo me voy con Clinton..." And then we wonder why American Race relations are so screwed up.

    Hillary is not damaging Obama (5.00 / 4) (#55)
    by angie on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:26:59 AM EST
    Obama is damaging himself -- if you can't see that on your own, I can't help you see it.

    What an absurd comment (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:29:38 AM EST
    You start by admitting you are going to launch into a red herring - "The petition aside"

    The petition aside? this post is ABOUT the petition. You cannot put the petition aside and be on topic.

    It is what makes this part of your comment nonsensical:

    "your statement that, "if Hillary Clinton wins the popular vote and the Super Delegates hand the nomination to Barack Obama, the Democratic Party will have acted against the will of the voters," is a bit interesting in that I'm not clear on why that matters?"

    It matters to me. And in theory, it matter to Color of Changer, whose petition posits that going
    against the will of the people is an offense worthy of threatening not to vote for the Dem in November.

    The rest of your comment is a fallacious smear of Clinton and her supporters along the lines of the Color of Change petition. I denounce and reject it.

    As for what Latinos know, they have supported Clinton by 2-1 over Obama.


    Clinton (5.00 / 4) (#57)
    by nell on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:32:35 AM EST
    is not damaging Obama, he is damaging himself. If he cannot take softball challengs from his Dem opponent without folding, then he has no business running in the general election. NONE. He is asking to be president of the country, not the PTA, and NO ONE should just hand this thing to either candidate.

    If he is tough enough to cut it in the primary, he will win 2,209 delegates (I believe that is the correct number including FL and MI).

    Obama supporters need to stop whining about what a rough ride he has had and they need to stop blaming everything on Clinton.


    Cracks me up! (5.00 / 5) (#58)
    by Dr Molly on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:33:32 AM EST
    "Hillary's going long and far out of her way to ensure she either wins the nomination or Obama looses the election."

    Isn't that what someone competing in an election does - try to win and try to make their opponent lose? And, isn't that exactly what Obama is doing too? In order to win, dear, there has to be a competition.

    Good grief - they are both legitimately competing in an extremely close race, and they both have the right to compete, and they both have lots of earnest supporters. Just let it run it's course.

    But, but... Hillary is EEEEEVIIIIILLLLLL!


    My favorite part of CDS posts... (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Marco21 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:07:42 AM EST
    is the idea that Hillary (and the Bill) are power-hungry madmen hellbent on grabbing the White House at all costs.

    On the other side of the big blue isle, we have Obama who decides he's done enough as my elected Senator in Illinois (yes, he got my vote) in a couple years and he's ready to run the most powerful country in the world. To hell with building a record  of national service and garnering on-the-job experience. Just hand the car keys to the new guy.

    Somehow, that's not power-hungry. What is it then? Hope Hungry?


    Hey Marco (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Dr Molly on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:40:04 AM EST
    Obama's my senator, too, and I also voted for him. I still like him. But these CDS posts are just delusional, and those I can't stand!

    You're right - the bizarre depiction of Clinton as power-hungry in contrast to Obama is just silly. It also confuses me how she is constantly protrayed as 'ambitious' as if this is a) horrible, and b) not what every politician including Obama is.


    I like him, too. (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Marco21 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 01:10:41 PM EST
    Less, I must confess, but if does win the nomination, he'll get my vote.

    It's his supporters and media enablers that really make me crazy. Barack's ego makes George Michael's in his 1980s heyday seem small by comparison and nobody calls him on it.

    The "Hillary would do anything" talking point becomes especially hilarious when you look back over Obama's fawning commentary regarding Ronald Reagan and Bush I. Seems, pretending 8 years of peace and prosperity never happened and crediting Repubs for their big ideas isn't selling out Democrats in an effort to get into the White House.


    Boehlert Article (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:02:30 AM EST
    Eric Boehlert has an detailed analysis showing that no candidate in a hotly or not-so-hotly contested presidential primary other than Hillary Clinton has ever been told by the media to "get out" before, and no other candidate in a similar position has been labelled as being egomaniacal or self-aggrandizing for staying in.  Before any of us continues down that path, perhaps we should ask why now?  and why Hillary?  The article is posted at mediamatters and at huffingtonpost.  

    CDS symptoms (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:48:22 AM EST
    Ladies and gentlemen, here is a clear symptom.  Political Mangu, thanks for providing such a great specimen of the syndrome.  

    You can see it on her face as she speaks about her outlook and that half-clenched-typical-Clinton-half-smile-because-I-am-probably-lying smirk on her face. She talks with all the sincerity in the world, and yet only has 1 thing in mind - power and the White House, and her and Bill continue to grow their legacy

    Indeed. I promise you that people here... (none / 0) (#69)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:08:21 AM EST
    ..do not say such vile things about Obama. And if they do they are generally deleted, which tells you a lot if you care to listen.

    Your comments are filled with lies (none / 0) (#59)
    by rooge04 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:35:32 AM EST
    and filth.  

    Perception is all (none / 0) (#61)
    by AnninCA on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:44:32 AM EST
    I think Hillary is having a blast.

    Get the hankies, somebody.... (none / 0) (#71)
    by Boia on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:32:09 AM EST
    You can see it on her face as she speaks about her outlook and that half-clenched-typical-Clinton-half-smile-because-I-am-probably-lying smirk on her face.

    Thank you for your considered comment.  Needless to say, it's typical of a certain kind of Obama-lover, especially the kind who spends lots of his waking moments instructing Senator Clinton to quit the race.

    As for your poor, troubled status as a Dominican, well, hey, when in doubt (as Obama has well taught you) play the victim.  Maybe it'll work for you--it's worked for him.


    I have been thinking for quite some time now.. (none / 0) (#7)
    by Dr Molly on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:27:09 AM EST
    ..with the continuing narrative of concern/fear about alienating minority voters, where in the world is the comparable concern for Latinos and Asians? Do they not count anymore?

    It's like they've been invisible during this campaign.

    As a Latino (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by rooge04 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:31:16 AM EST
    I feel utterly ignored by the Obama campaign and by the DNC.  I understand the actual fear of losing the AA vote (although I think that the DNC is using this threat in a nefarious way to attempt to scare HRC into quitting or giving Obama the nom).  However, demographically speaking...we are a BIGGER voting bloc. And we have nowhere NEAR the party loyalty that AA's have.  40%+ of latinos voted for Bush in 2004.  The DNC appears to not be concerned.  It seems like the color brown doesn't matter.

    You were (none / 0) (#13)
    by AnninCA on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:35:46 AM EST
    supplanted by high AA turn=out.  LOL*

    (I'm laughing with you, not at you.)

    Ridiculous situation all the way around.

    But back to the petition, I'm tired of all these sideway methods being used to influence.

    Jeesh*....why isn't just voting enough?


    That (none / 0) (#9)
    by AnninCA on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:33:49 AM EST
    issue has infuriated me because we all darn well know that immigration reform will be top of the list.

    Let's not be relevant here, though, right?  grrrr

    It's more phony-baloney pretense of caring about racism on the Dems part, in my opinion.  


    And McCain is well-liked and respected (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by rooge04 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:35:14 AM EST
    among Latinos.  Fair or not.  They share his socially conservative views AND he's been the only Republican to bring forth immigration reform with Ted Kennedy of all people.  The DNC party elite does not seem worried. They should be.

    The DNC Elite (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by vigkat on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:48:51 AM EST
    Appear to have lost their minds.  Naked manipulation is so unattractive, but apparently the end justifies the means.  

    The more I think about it (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by ruffian on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:09:24 AM EST
    The more convinced I am that they haven't had a mind in quite some time.

    I agree. (5.00 / 4) (#30)
    by kenoshaMarge on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:54:19 AM EST
    From what I've seen I would guess that the media and the DNC don't want to talk about Latino voters at this point in time because they see them as being too supportive of Hillary Clinton.

    They probably are also sure that the Latino vote will scurry over to Obama just like the Old Geezer vote will. I think they're wrong on both counts. Many people simply do not see John McCain as another Bush. And those that don't like him, like me, don't dislike him enough for the "beware the evil Republican" chants to scare us much.

    Maybe because we see all too clearly that the Democratic Party isn't real big on doing a whole lot for us either. And what about the darn war thing they were given a majority to end? How's that coming along?

    I believe too that the key is in Oregon. I also believe that with the trend for Hillary heading up and the trend, at this point in time, for Obama heading down, she has a chance. Not a real good one, but a chance. To me it's all in the class thing. Will the working class in Oregon   help her enough?


    I don't know why they assume any of this. (none / 0) (#34)
    by rooge04 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:02:14 AM EST
    If any DNC people had bothered to look they'd find scientific proof that Hispanics/Latinos do NOT have any kind of reliable party loyalty. The fact that they're an increasingly bigger and bigger constituency (not to mention the super-high amt of citizenship apps in the last 2 years precisely because they want to vote in 2008) seems to not matter.  They are becoming the biggest swing group! But we'll just ignore them.

    Exactly (none / 0) (#21)
    by ruffian on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:44:34 AM EST
    they seem to think they can paint him as anti-immigrant like the Tancredo wing of the Rep party.  Real people know better than that.  They know he was for the more reasonable immigration reform he crafted with Kennedy.  He had to pander to the right and come down harder on border enforcement to get the nomination, but he still supports the other reforms he proposed.

    I do hope that the local onerous anti-immigration bills Republicans are trying to get on the ballot in various states will turn out the Latino vote against the Republicans. On the other hand, they will also turn out the Republican vote.  I know the theory was that only Hillary Clinton on the ticket could turn out the Republican vote in masssive numbers, but that was always a myth.  Anti-immigration bills will have the same effect.


    You don't blog as much... (none / 0) (#76)
    by DWCG on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:10:21 AM EST
    Neither do seniors, and working class folk so you don't matter.

    Wow, just wow (none / 0) (#16)
    by vigkat on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:39:44 AM EST
    Clarity at last.  No further room for conjecture.  It appears Bill Clinton was right -- race was one of the cards frimly held and frequently played from the hand of the Obama campaign.  And still they do not hesitate.

    Color of Change is NOT (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:43:49 AM EST
    the Obama campaign.

    You are correct, of course (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by vigkat on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:01:48 AM EST
    I apologize for speaking before I had fully digested the linked material.  

    Of course it isn't his campaign (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Radiowalla on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:04:44 AM EST
    but what they are doing certainly does and will reflect very badly on  his campaign.

    It's no different than when Clinton surrogates make inflammatory statements and these statements taint the Clinton campaign.

    How much damage this letter will do will depend on whether the MSM picks it up and makes it an issue.


    Astro turf? (none / 0) (#42)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:11:23 AM EST
    one of Axelrod's specialties?

    No (none / 0) (#46)
    by standingup on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:16:45 AM EST
    Read their about page.  They came into existence in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.  I would like to hear Obama denounce the petition but he is not in control of the organization and can't be held responsible for their actions.  

    Attack on Congressional Black Caucus (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:22:28 AM EST
    It's what they had said they would do to the old line Black Congress members.  May not be astro turf, but I bet they got a big infusion of $$$ from somewhere recently.  Axelrod's system he can find existing groups to create a groundswell as well by infusing $$$$.  

    BTD, again your tone is pitch-perfect (none / 0) (#73)
    by BoGardiner on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:58:25 AM EST
    BTD, I just want to extend my thanks to you for being, in my mind, the model of assertive yet extraordinarily fair political writing.  Your values and vision shine through in all your work.  I know you're making a difference, and it's for the good.

    I do hope before it's all said and done you decide to switch your support from Obama to Clinton.  My top concerns relate to the environment, science, and peace, and I believe she is the brilliant and strong leader we need to tackle these.  But as you keep reminding us all, either one would be a new day for America.

    Again, thanks.

    Do you also (none / 0) (#78)
    by flyerhawk on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:27:26 AM EST
    denounce and reject example of egregious voter suppression from Women's Voice Women's Vote?

    Covered yesterday, I believe. (none / 0) (#87)
    by Marco21 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 01:14:50 PM EST
    If it had occurred I would (none / 0) (#94)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:39:51 PM EST
    Since it was an egregious false smear, I denounced the smear.

    I denounce YOU for continuing to spread it.


    SIGN THIS GOOD PETITION (none / 0) (#82)
    by chopper on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:36:14 PM EST
    This petition is to get the votes and delegates in FL and MI counted.  Please sign it and pass it around.

    Hillary wins the popular vote with FL and MI counted, as they should be.

    I'll try again (none / 0) (#83)
    by chopper on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:37:35 PM EST
    This will fail (none / 0) (#88)
    by boredmpa on Fri May 02, 2008 at 01:51:35 PM EST
    In fact, I hope all the folks on kos and huffpost sign that petition.  And I hope the news media runs with it when the group forwards several hundred thousand signatures and made up names to the Dems.

    It will either backfire big-time and energize hillary's support or simply increase the number of people that will not vote for obama if he gets the nomination.  You really don't want this card to get played.

    Worst case, it will cause the dems to lose the election in November.  I've said it before and I'll say it again: the dems do not deserve my vote if they sacrifice policy and leadership for identity politics and disenfranchisement.

    I don't care if they have the cutest, sweetest talking gay man on the planet that nets 99% of the gay vote and 70% of the female vote, I would not vote for him unless he had more than a bit of sense and was a strong candidate.  And if I thought I was being pandered to based on identity politics, you can bet I'd speak up.