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Hillary to Obama: "It's Nowhere Near Over"

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:44:38 PM EST
Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, 2008 (all tags)
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Hillary Clinton isn't falling for the media meme that Obama will have the nomination sewn up tomorrow night.

"You can declare yourself anything, but if you don't have the votes, it doesn't matter," Clinton said Monday in a satellite interview. "This is nowhere near over."

Hillary's campaign is right behind her:

"Senator Obama's plan to declare himself the Democratic nominee tomorrow night in Iowa is a slap in the face to the millions of voters in the remaining primary states and to Senator Clinton's 17 million supporters," said Clinton communications chief Howard Wolfson. "Premature victory laps and false declarations of victory are unwarranted."

More...

Hillary is heading to Florida Wednesday. Obama will be there as well.

As for the polls tomorrow:

According to polls, Clinton is expected to score a 20- to 30-point win in Kentucky, a largely white, largely working-class state whose demographics mirror West Virginia, which gave her a 41-point victory a week ago.

Oregon is a harder call, with some polls giving Obama a 20-point-plus lead and a pair of recent polls showing his margin shrinking to the 5-point range.

Hillary's campaign is predicting a big Obama win in Oregon:

"We don't trust those polls," said a top Clinton staffer. "He's going to win by high double digits."

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    Hillary to Obama: "It's Nowhere Near Over" | 245 comments (245 topical)
    Clinging to hope out of desperation (5.00 / 11) (#1)
    by chopper on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:49:22 PM EST
    Tuesday Obama will try to steal the nomination in much the same way that Bush stole the 2000 election.  He will declare victory when there is none.

    He sees victory slipping away and is clinging to hope out of desperation.

    His superdelegate endorsements have slowed to a trickle, if even that.

    He is behind in the popular vote if we still value democracy and this is still a country made up of 50 states.

    He wants to claim victory before the DNC Rules Committee meets on the 31st and recognizes the voters of FL and MI.

    The inequity of the delegate system is being questioned, particularly with the involvement of Obama's caucus thugs.

    Most people are starting to see Obama can't win the electoral votes, meaning he can't win in November.

    Most people are starting to see that Hillary won the big states, which are needed to win in November.

    Most people are starting to see that Hillary has real plans for the economy, healthcare, and more.  Not copies.

    He will not have reached the 2209 delegates needed to declare victory or even the arbitrary figure of 2025 delegates.

    He has pulled a lot of Chicago-style tricks during this primary, but I don't think this one will work.

    In the end good old-fashioned hard work, accomplishments, experience, knowledge, worldliness, maturity, good judgement, and the love of this country will prevail.

    HILLARY CLINTON FOR PEACE AND PROSPERITY

    But wait...the honorable (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:37:53 PM EST
    Obama campaign should return Byrd, since that is stealing from what the voters voted.  Run back to Move-on and tell them to stand by what they believed in.  
    Of course, Byrd was promised absolution, by the great one.  

    [ Parent ]
    You Could Start At HuffPo....They Would Love (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:44:48 PM EST
    you over there.

    [ Parent ]
    Axelrod is an apt pupil (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:57:00 PM EST
    of Karl Rove.  This is exactly the psy-ops tactic Bush used to such overwhelming effect in 2000.  But Hillary is not Al Gore and will not fold so easily.

    [ Parent ]
    Hillary Is NOT Backing Down At All And Is (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:04:25 PM EST
    taking obama to task:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080519/ts_alt_afp/usvote

    [ Parent ]

    Time's long passed for 'Can't Close' Obama 2 quit (5.00 / 3) (#114)
    by Ellie on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:57:04 PM EST
    He's burned through obscene amounts of cash not to budge ACTUAL VOTERS who, after getting a closer look at him, can't stand him.

    This is an astounding accomplishment.

    Think about it. He doesn't just bleed cash, good will and support back to a state of neutrality.

    He doesn't just lose it into his opponent's column.

    He viscerally pisses people out of the party and taking a look at Republican real estate.

    Good grief, even I considered a choice between writing in a Pres/VP or voting McCain before submerging my head in ice cold water. This is just f-cking staggering.

    I'm so liberal that several hours after I die, a large and athletic medical team will still be beating my liberalness to death.

    [ Parent ]

    But he is NOT declaring victory (3.25 / 4) (#12)
    by HelenK on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:07:55 PM EST
    tomorrow. He is doing what any candidate would do, tout his lead and his possibly insurmountable lead in delegates.

    This whole thread is pointless since it is based on an event that Obama has never said is going to happen.

    [ Parent ]

    His campaign said it (5.00 / 6) (#25)
    by Cream City on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:18:15 PM EST
    -- that he would declare victory.  And he has to take responsibility for what his staff says or deny it (he has blamed staff before for mistakes, so he could do it again).

    [ Parent ]
    Their goal was to get the media to say he was the (5.00 / 6) (#69)
    by sancho on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:37:31 PM EST
    winner and it would soon be offical--and they did just that all week. Just like Bush told the tv cameras in 2000 that he, and not Gore, had "really" won Florida. Too bad Obama does not have any siblings who are governors of Florida, Ohio, or Pennsylvania.

    [ Parent ]
    And Powell with the WMD trucks. (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:38:47 PM EST
    well some of us don't forget.

    [ Parent ]
    If you think this thread is pointless (4.57 / 14) (#14)
    by Democratic Cat on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:10:20 PM EST
    then post on a different thread; don't torture yourself (or others) by posting on this one.

    [ Parent ]
    More power to her (5.00 / 5) (#2)
    by dianem on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:50:30 PM EST
    I don't think it will matter in the long run. Even Clinton can't buck the combination of party establishment, media, and fanatic Obama followers who have declared him the winner. But I admire her all the more for continuing the fight and respecting the voter's enough to insist that all the votes be counted. And you never know...I might be wrong. I haven't walked on water lately.

    futility is the reaction you are supposed to have (5.00 / 4) (#214)
    by moll on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:34:54 PM EST
    I don't think it will matter in the long run. Even Clinton can't buck the combination of party establishment, media, and fanatic Obama followers who have declared him the winner.

    I haven't given up on Clinton. I am hoping she really is the monster they depict - the one who doesn't die, no matter how many times you kill her.

    If someone doesn't stop this election-stealing downhill spiral, we're all in big trouble.

    And if anyone is going to stop it, why not Clinton?

    [ Parent ]

    you forgot another group (2.00 / 12) (#20)
    by iago on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:15:08 PM EST
    You forgot another group, the voters. Clinton also can't buck the voters. She had every advantage and blew it.

    Obama leads in elected delegates, super delegates, and popular vote. The dye is cast. He'll be the nominee and she'll be the greatly diminished junior senator from NY.

    [ Parent ]

    yes, diminishing her power is the (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by MarkL on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:19:38 PM EST
    point, isn't it?
    When Obama loses in November, I think Hillary might have some influence.

    [ Parent ]
    She'll (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by sas on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:21:26 PM EST
    be the President or the highly admired Senator from NY.

    [ Parent ]
    Let's face it, Iago (4.00 / 2) (#250)
    by Upstart Crow on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:00:03 AM EST
    I don't think she'll be a chastened senator. I think, holding as much sway as she does, she'll negotiate for a bigger role in the Senate.  And she'll still have that when the Dems lose in November.

    But I do wonder what kool-aid some of the others are drinking. The DNC will not let her win.  They've made it clear they will find SDs in the bushes and twist their arms for every vote she wins.  

    I saw all sorts of euphoric predictions come crashing down after the NC/PA primaries.  

    I wish what you all are saying will come true. But I just can't close my eyes and wish.

    [ Parent ]

    yes (5.00 / 13) (#47)
    by hitchhiker on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:29:19 PM EST
    because everyone knows that having 17 million Americans vote for you for president is shameful and degrading.

    it's so humiliating to be the first choice of that many people; I have a hard time imagining how she will ever live it down.

    jeebus, what sort of universe do the hillary-haters inhabit?  where strength is disgusting and courage is a character flaw?  where only people who give up when things are tough deserve admiration?

    tell you what . . . Obama has not demonstrated that he has a fraction of this woman's character.  he may, in time, but as of this moment, he's the candidate with less going for him.  

    possibly the rage against Hillary Clinton has to do with her refusal to back off so that the comparison is not quite so obvious.

    [ Parent ]

    That is just ridiculous (2.00 / 8) (#100)
    by April on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:51:43 PM EST
     Why do you carry on and on with this "Hillary Haters" meme?

     This is what I don't understand.

     It's not like we hate Hillary, for God's sake.

     No matter WHAT an Obama supporter says you twist in some irrational fashion that it is supposedly anti-Hillary.

    This perpetual victim mode gets old.

    It's the media's fault.
    It's Obama's fault.
    It's Obama supporters fault.
    It's everyone else's fault that Hillary is not ahead, but Hillary's.

    Come on.

     The problem is she is way behind and  you keep pretending like this race is close.

     Numbers:

    Total Delegates    1913 - 1721    Obama + 192
    Super Delegates    303 - 278    Obama + 25
    Pledged Delegates    1610 - 1443    Obama + 167
    Popular Vote    49.3 - 47.5    Obama +1.8
    Popular Vote (w/FL)    48.5 - 47.6    Obama +0.9

      I guarantee you that there is no sincere compliment that I could give Hillary that you would not turn into some imagined  attack on Hillary. That is just sad and why you insist on doing it is beyond me.

     

    [ Parent ]

    So, count Florida and Michigan (5.00 / 5) (#104)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:52:41 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Wow (5.00 / 4) (#115)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:57:19 PM EST
    Being lectured on "victimhood" by the ones who are masters of it.

    Pot, meet kettle.

    [ Parent ]

    OMFG another lame oPod bearing insutingPsycho-Caca (5.00 / 3) (#147)
    by Ellie on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:11:41 PM EST
    Can the Obama campaign not come up with even ONE supporter that doesn't breeze in here to finger-wag while ludicrously displaying a failure to practice what s/he preaches.

    Just even for a paragraph or two?

    Speaking only for myself (ob winkycon to BTD), just a month ago I was amenable to supporting either of the remaining Dems.

    Based on their own words, deeds, actions and record: Obama lost me bigtime before HRC won me bigtime. I'm in it for her to win it.

    That's the opposite of being a victim.

    A victim is someone who slinks around the edges of a conversation complaining that it bores her and the people are lame -- rather than contributing something of substance or, you know, LEAVING IN SILENCE.

    You are the victim. You've always been the victim, April. [/The Shining]

    [ Parent ]

    Did you happen to look at (3.00 / 2) (#182)
    by April on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:25:12 PM EST
    THE  NUMBERS?

    [ Parent ]
    Whatt? Is it August already? (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by Fabian on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:27:22 PM EST
    Dang, I overslept again!  Stupid newfangled digital alarm clocks.  When did they add a [DATE] setting?

    [ Parent ]
    Did he cross 2210 yet? Are the dles/SDs on record? (5.00 / 3) (#221)
    by Ellie on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:37:47 PM EST
    No?

    Than he can put his trophies up with the winners of

    • The Indy-450,
    • The fasted recorded 8/10 of a mile,
    • The most exciting 6-3/4 game comeback win evah
    • And leads the crowded history of 3-act legend and lore stopped in the second act ... where the bad guy's ahead so of course, HE WINS!!!

    Thanks for playing, though. (I recommend trying out some deep, rich culture sometime instead of whatever crap you Elitey Informed Voters are imbibing: the real stuff is delicious.)

    [ Parent ]
    If you've 'won' (5.00 / 6) (#179)
    by waldenpond on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:24:32 PM EST
    why are you here?  For people that have 'won' you sure spend a lot if time whinging and complaining.  If you've 'won' why haven't you been able to move on from the primary.  For people that have 'won' you sure obsess about the primary.

    I guarantee you that there is no sincere compliment that I could give Hillary that you would not turn into some imagined  attack on Hillary. That is just sad and why you insist on doing it is beyond me.

    This perpetual victim mode gets old.  Ha!  Ha!  


    [ Parent ]

    April (5.00 / 7) (#207)
    by cal1942 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:31:43 PM EST
    Don't bring that 'we don't hate Hillary' stuff here.

    Virtually all of the regulars commenting here have been to sites like HuffPo, DKos, TPM, Buzzflash, Americablog, etc.

    These sites ooze CDS and you are less than honest for claiming otherwise.

    Inasmuch as fixing blame is concerned Hillary Clinton hasn't blamed anyone.

    Obama on the other hand has blamed rural voters clinging to God and guns, older voters, etc.

    And by the way, this race is close.  The closest primary campaign in my memory.  Closer than the multiple ballot conventions that I remember. If enough SDs, those who Obama hasn't bought, use what's between their ears Hillary will be the nominee.

    But I do have to say, if your candidate is nominated you're using a unique strategy for winning over Clinton supporters.


    [ Parent ]

    Blackmail is your friend (3.00 / 2) (#223)
    by April on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:38:41 PM EST
    I have given Hillary kudos.

    No one here will accept that.

    But that's not my problem.

     It's yours.

    I am just pointing out the in spite of all your 'hope' the numbers are not in Hillary's favor. Period.

    Hillary has more class and more grace than you all seem to, that's for sure.

    [ Parent ]

    Blackmail huh! Who were the (4.00 / 4) (#229)
    by Serene1 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:43:00 PM EST
    ones who kept coming here, TM, RD and most other Pro Hillary sites to threaten us about Roe vs. Wade.


    [ Parent ]
    "It's not like we hate Hillary..." (5.00 / 2) (#238)
    by lambert on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:46:08 PM EST
    Oh, you don't hang out at Kos, then?

    [ Parent ]
    more nasty unity (5.00 / 5) (#60)
    by sarahfdavis on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:33:48 PM EST
    didn't you get the memo?
    be nice to us poor old racist delusional clinton supporters.


    [ Parent ]
    naw (3.00 / 2) (#145)
    by iago on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:10:33 PM EST
    Naw, I'm gonna treat you like a grownup and not sugar coat it. Hillary's campaign was poorly run and she lost.

    Them's the breaks. Much of her influence came from the assumption she would be the nominee with that gone other senators with more seniority, just about all of them, will assert themselves. If Hillary can still raise cash she'll still be a force in the senate though her influence will still be diminished.

    On to the general:

    McCain is not at all popular with the base of his party which he will need, as Obama will need his, to win. McCain will have to promise "strict constructionist judges" or else he doesn't have a prayer of getting the base out.

    It will be an interesting election. Will Obama be able to get enough of the 65+ white vote to win or will McCain gain independents and hold his base. There is always the outside shot that Obama will be able to ride the wave he's created and find a youth vote that rarely shows up.

    [ Parent ]

    NAW (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by delacarpa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:24:16 PM EST
    You haven't seen the release of SUSA GE polls today. Need to take a look. He is tanking in the GE Election states. I got the site but you can do the work.

    [ Parent ]
    cross that bridge (1.00 / 1) (#196)
    by iago on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:28:28 PM EST
    That maybe so but he's all but sown up the primary. Obama seems to be in the process of pivoting to the general. His GE numbers should improve soon.

    [ Parent ]
    Want to know why Hillary faltered (5.00 / 5) (#186)
    by Serene1 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:26:06 PM EST
    early on? She was not prepared for the full on negative attacks by Team Obama. She was under the mistaken belief that Dem's would fight on issues.  

    Many people seem to forget that Team Obama used republican talking points against Hillary early on and his supporters dilligently followed suiot. The Hate Hillary campaign came to such a head that Pro Obama blogs started purging Hillary supporters from their blogs and elsewhere. Hillary wisened up and started attacking back and that is when the Kitchen sink whine started.

    I have not forgotten the same because I still remember how confused and helpless I felt as I watched quite a few so called Liberal blogs overninght becoming right wing smear attack machines for Obama against Hillary.

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry no (2.33 / 3) (#204)
    by iago on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:30:34 PM EST
    He won by expanding the voter base and tapping into a taste to move away from the war-room politics that have dominated the last 16 years.

    And that's despite his race, which is harming him with some of the seniors I know.

    [ Parent ]

    This expanding the voter base nonsense (5.00 / 3) (#222)
    by Serene1 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:38:11 PM EST
    has to stop. There are numerous analysis which prove that in fact it is Hillary who has expanded the voter base and not Obama as the myth goes. Obama has usually done well only when the turnouts were low. Whereas Hillary has mostly done well when the Turnouts were very high. I can provide the links of those analysis if you want.

    There are a lot of myths in this campaign. This expanding voter base is another one.

    [ Parent ]

    please post them (none / 0) (#236)
    by iago on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:45:33 PM EST
    Yes. Please post these analyses.

    [ Parent ]
    The Obama (5.00 / 2) (#228)
    by cal1942 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:42:28 PM EST
    trolls are out in force.  Using their skills of charm and persuasion to win we poor ignorant Clinton supporters to their cause.

    [ Parent ]
    but your messiah sez (5.00 / 2) (#232)
    by sarahfdavis on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:45:02 PM EST
    you should be nice to us!!!! i thought he was so persuasive
    that he could inspire anyone to do anything! but you're not doing
    what he says you should do?!! I'm so confused! Will you nicely explain it to me?

    [ Parent ]
    then why are you so bitter? (5.00 / 3) (#247)
    by moll on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:50:41 PM EST
    Naw, I'm gonna treat you like a grownup and not sugar coat it. Hillary's campaign was poorly run and she lost.

    Them's the breaks.

    But, see, she hasn't.

    Because it isn't over yet. Why can't you wait?

    If Obama were really sure of himself, he could wait.

    But of course he can't. It's increasingly obvious he knows he's in trouble, so he has to scramble - hanging up his Mission Accomplished sign and pretending he has won prematurely, even though it compromises the legitimacy of his "win", because it is becoming increasingly obvious that he is afraid of how the process will play out.  

    I tell you what: I will believe it is over when I hear Hillary's concession speech. Or when I go to vote in November and her name ain't on the ballot, if she never concedes.

    If you sincerely want to treat me as a grownup, why can't you give me that?

    [ Parent ]

    He may be handed the nomination (5.00 / 6) (#73)
    by miriam on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:38:08 PM EST
    But he'll never be president.

    [ Parent ]
    not handed (3.00 / 2) (#149)
    by iago on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:12:21 PM EST
    he earned it by running a more effective campaign and garnering more votes and delegates.

    Hillary wasn't cheated she lost fair and square. There's no shame in that for her or her supporters.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama (5.00 / 5) (#153)
    by cawaltz on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:15:59 PM EST
    should be proud. It isn't every campaign that can tout that it called a former President a racist.

    [ Parent ]
    Bill (1.00 / 2) (#185)
    by iago on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:25:42 PM EST
    Bill sort of shot himself int he foot a couple of times this primary season. I think it's one of the reasons they eventually limited his exposure. Certainly reigniting the "sniper fire" story didn't help Hillary's campaign.

    Maybe he's losing his alacrity or isn't used to the current 24 hour cycle but he was a help and a hindrance to her this go around.

    [ Parent ]

    The Obama campaign (3.66 / 3) (#210)
    by cawaltz on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:32:52 PM EST
    made political hay out of innocuous statements.

    There is no way giving LBJ credit for civil rights is a slight to MLK anywhere other than in imaginary pretend racist world, where you see racists lurking behind every corner.

    It is the epitome ofdisgusting to call someone a racist to curry political favor. It belittles REAL racism, which I happen to believe does exist.

    [ Parent ]

    No. Obama the uniter race baited (3.66 / 3) (#241)
    by sarahfdavis on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:48:02 PM EST
    he and his campaign took the fairytale quote and utterly lied about it.
    the jesse jackson quote was about another candidate that had won a SC with enormous AA support as well.
    to stoke that as racist is racist in itself. he loves to work both sides of that issue. stop creating divisiveness where there isn't any.

    [ Parent ]
    yes, handed: Donna Brazile's (5.00 / 2) (#164)
    by MarkL on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:19:32 PM EST
    machinations were essential to his success,  for instance.

    [ Parent ]
    yes, handed: Donna Brazile's (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by MarkL on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:19:46 PM EST
    machinations were essential to his success,  for instance.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh My God (5.00 / 3) (#244)
    by cal1942 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:49:28 PM EST
    Fair and square!  Two words - Florida and Michigan.

    He has an SD lead because he was the highest bidder.  He's been the highest bidder because he's the establishment's candidate.  If Obama wins the nomination it will again be the triumph of the establishment.

    iago, grow up.

    [ Parent ]

    Any way you look at it... (5.00 / 4) (#80)
    by dianem on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:40:53 PM EST
    ...she got half the votes. Well, almost half. 49% + She may yet make it to half, and will certainly close the gap during the remaining primaries. Given the level of hostility expressed toward her by the media and Obama's attacks and the fact that 90%+ of blacks voted against her, that is amazing. Clinton has not been diminished by this contest. A lot of people have gained respect and admiration for her.

    [ Parent ]
    Diminished? (5.00 / 4) (#91)
    by abfabdem on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:45:28 PM EST
    She's gotten the same number of total votes as Obama (maybe more) so how does that diminish her?  She has a huge following despite the bias of the media and the DNC.  The MSM is leading us by the nose to take Obama the way they trashed Dean for Kerry.  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice . . . .

    [ Parent ]
    Boffo comment (5.00 / 3) (#121)
    by cal1942 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:00:08 PM EST
    iago. If Obama is the nominee you're doing a bang-up job convincing Clinton supporters to vote for him.

    By the way, Hillary leads in the popular vote.

    [ Parent ]

    Shame on you (1.80 / 10) (#40)
    by April on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:24:38 PM EST
    Hillary won't be diminished if she sticks it out, whether she wins or loses.

    The only way she will be seen as diminished is IF the negative tone of her campaign is seen as costing Obama the nomination.

    If she does as she promised and campaigns her heart of for the democratic nominee, she will be remembered well.

    If she is seen as trying to cripple the chances of a democratic victory in November, for her own political gain, her reputation will suffer hugely.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama blames others enough (5.00 / 6) (#61)
    by waldenpond on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:34:39 PM EST
    all on his own.  He truly does not need his supporters doing it for him.  

    Obama will win (propped up by the media) or he will lose all on his own.  


    [ Parent ]

    IACF! (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by Fabian on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:37:15 PM EST
    Next time just put that in your Subject line like so:
    "IACF!  n/t"

    [ Parent ]
    She takes responsibility (4.33 / 3) (#110)
    by April on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:55:52 PM EST
    for those that managed her campaign.

     She went with her husband's guy Mark Penn. Her first mistake was listening to Bill.

     Hillary did not do a good job of managing all the egos of her campaign staff.

     She should never have trusted Penn. That was her first mistake.

    [ Parent ]

    Who said this: ? (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Fabian on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:02:28 PM EST
    It's the media's fault.
    It's Obama's fault.
    It's Obama supporters fault.
    It's everyone else's fault that Hillary is not ahead, but Hillary's.

    LINK
    At least you don't have to worry about "a foolish consistency".

    [ Parent ]

    If Clinton ran such a crummy (5.00 / 3) (#233)
    by cawaltz on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:45:11 PM EST
    campaign....what does that say about Obama's campaign since HE is virtually neck in neck with her "crummy" campaign?

    [ Parent ]
    wait ONE freaking second (5.00 / 3) (#120)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:00:06 PM EST
    If Obama loses anything it's OBAMA's fault. He's a grown a55 man of 46 years.  HE's an adult and responsible for his OWN actions.

    Period. End of story.  

    Damn! Obama's supporters resonate "I'm irresponsible and it's YOUR fault!"

    [ Parent ]

    tell you what, go study political (5.00 / 3) (#240)
    by hellothere on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:47:33 PM EST
    campaigns and conventions. the complete lack of understanding of politics and so forth by many obama supporters is frustrating.

    [ Parent ]
    Read carefully (1.00 / 8) (#65)
    by Seth90212 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:35:59 PM EST
    Her campaign tactics have been questionable to say the least. Her own voters tell exit pollsters that she has been responsible for most of the rancor. My scenario envisions her attempting to stay in it beyond the end of the primaries, in which case she will irretrievable damage herself politically and expose her senate seat to threats. Yes she has a lot of moxie and she's a tireless, relentless campaigner. But if she's perceived as delusional, New Yorkers will get rid of her.

    [ Parent ]
    IACF! (5.00 / 3) (#87)
    by waldenpond on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:43:53 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    oh, it's "your scenario" (5.00 / 3) (#92)
    by sarahfdavis on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:45:51 PM EST
    well in my scenario Obama realizes that he's not up to the monumental task and calls hillary at 3am one nite asking if she'll accept his humble apology and take the burden of the nomination off of his shoulders. i guess we've all got our own movies playing. you're pretty self-righteous about yours.

    [ Parent ]
    Not the NY'ers I know (5.00 / 4) (#124)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:01:25 PM EST
    My friends in Ronkonkoma and Yonkers LOVE her.  They say that they are BEYOND proud of her taking on the entire world to show them she means bizness.

    NY'ers are fighters.  Chicago.  Not so sure.

    [ Parent ]

    Whoa! (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by Marco21 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:04:46 PM EST
    Before you disparage Chicago Democrats like that, try living in Obamaland as a Hillary supporter.

    You got it good in NY.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm In Texas (5.00 / 2) (#161)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:18:35 PM EST
    Try being a Hillary boy in McCain country!

    I USED to live in the Windy City.  Didn't mean to knock anyone there.  Just, it seems that New Yorkers have more of a fighting spirit, than say, most other cities in the country.

    Apologies left, right, front and center.

    [ Parent ]

    Too late. (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by Marco21 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:23:46 PM EST
    You're on my enemies list. It's you, McCain, Mariah Carey, Paris Hilton, Hitler youth, the jerky security guard at work...

    [ Parent ]
    aww man (5.00 / 4) (#216)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:35:31 PM EST
    darn it all to heck...wow, I didn't see Nancy Pelosi or Donna Brazile on your list.

    Guess I was WRIGHT about you Chicago guys! LOL!

    <eg>

    [ Parent ]

    If Hillary is responsible for the negativity (5.00 / 4) (#137)
    by MarkL on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:06:26 PM EST
    why is it that so many of HER voters won't vote for Obama? That doesn't quite makes sense to me.

    [ Parent ]
    You are the one who is delusional (5.00 / 4) (#243)
    by Mari on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:48:25 PM EST
    Hillary received the support of half of Democratic party electorate and this in the face of incredible misogny from Obama, his campaign, and the media. It's pathetic seeing Obama supporters trying to diminish her accomplishments.

    [ Parent ]
    she will be dimnished (1.00 / 4) (#169)
    by iago on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:20:13 PM EST
    Hillary wasn't/isn't an ordinary junior senator. She is the wife of a former president, a major fundraiser, and was the presumptive nominee. Each of those gave her influence. She won't lose the first, it's unclear if the second has been damaged, and the third is all but gone for '08.

    Hillary had more influence than the average senator because of these factors and the lose of one will diminish her somewhat. That's not to say she can't still be a power in the senate.

    [ Parent ]

    And you forgot (5.00 / 5) (#206)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:31:36 PM EST
    she's tied for the nomination for president of the United States -- first woman to do this.

    New Yorkers love her.  Just because you WISH she would be diminished because you have issues with her doesn't mean it will actually happen.

    [ Parent ]

    If she doesn't get out in June even (1.00 / 10) (#31)
    by Seth90212 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:20:25 PM EST
    her senate seat will be in jeopardy. New Yorkers won't want a laughingstock who doesn't know when to quit representing them. If her credibility continues to be diminshed they'll get rid of her. She is essentially a carpetbagger after all.

    [ Parent ]
    I know one thing (5.00 / 6) (#56)
    by suisser on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:32:37 PM EST
    You're no New Yorker.  So kindly keep your opinions of what we would want from our Senator to yourself.

    [ Parent ]
    I am (1.00 / 3) (#155)
    by iago on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:16:15 PM EST
    I am and Hillary is not popular in Upstate NY. Her support in NYC may be shaken if this race gets uglier.

    Believe me with NYC's racial political machine there will be elements that will demand a steep price from Hillary for some of the things her campaign has been perceived to have done. I think she'll find a way to pay the bill though.

    [ Parent ]

    Carpetbagger? (5.00 / 4) (#57)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:32:51 PM EST
    Gosh, silly me, I thought the Civil War was over.  WAIT, that's race baiting because that term is about why the Civil War happened!  

    OMG so with that term you are slighting Obama!

    (See, that's how they play it)

    [ Parent ]

    Carpetbagger? (5.00 / 3) (#82)
    by sancho on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:41:51 PM EST
    Obama is the elite, well-connected Northerner getting delegate-rich in Southern States (give or take Florida, Tenn, and Ark.) and offering little in return. People from the South recognize Hillary as one who paid her dues there.  If New Yorkers did not want Hillary to be their senator, they would not have voted for her twice--overwhelmingly the second time.

    [ Parent ]
    Seriously, some of you need to get (1.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Seth90212 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:52:35 PM EST
    over your obsession with race here. This is 2008. Race this, race that. Racist this, racist that. Give it up already.

    [ Parent ]
    I guess (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:54:47 PM EST
    I shoulda did the /snark thing by my comment.

    I was just displaying the outrageousness OF the tactic used by BHO's campaign.

    [ Parent ]

    Wow, race is not an issue? (5.00 / 3) (#118)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:58:33 PM EST
    Cool.  No one told us low info voters.  Ok, now go down and tell the victims of institutional racism in America, it's over.  I don't think they heard you down in the State and Fed jails.  Go tell the people who suffer from the educational gap, it's over and that they should get over themselves.  Racism in America has been declared over.  

    [ Parent ]
    Seth does the race thing (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by waldenpond on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:16:20 PM EST
    more than anyone on this site.  He has numerous 1s and has been suspended on more than one occasion.

    Here's a fun thread.

    Oops he does it again.

    Ouch one more time.

    He repeatedly calls the people here names and disparages the site.

    I am beginning to believe he waits until he knows Jeralyn and BTD aren't in the rooom to start writing.

    [ Parent ]

    A wasted life. (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:17:47 PM EST
    Hope the pay is good with healthcare benefits.  

    [ Parent ]
    This is the best you can do? (1.00 / 1) (#209)
    by Seth90212 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:32:16 PM EST
    You've just proven with those links that I'm not a race-baiter. Thank you.

    [ Parent ]
    Reading comprehension (5.00 / 1) (#219)
    by waldenpond on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:37:25 PM EST
    is your friend.  Review the comments.  You have been called out for race-baiting multiple times and then you whine about it.  How many times have you been suspended?

    [ Parent ]
    In this environment, calling an Obama supporter (1.00 / 1) (#237)
    by Seth90212 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:45:44 PM EST
    out on race-baiting probably means that the actual race-baiters are doing the calling out.

    Oh, I've never been suspended here. Have you?

    [ Parent ]

    Race baiter, you need to establish metrics (5.00 / 2) (#152)
    by Ellie on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:15:28 PM EST
    Parameters, a side-by-side listing that includes BO's and Michelle's egregious accusations and bizarre statements about anyone who isn't black and/or a BO supporter.

    [ Parent ]
    So says the boyz club (5.00 / 5) (#84)
    by sarahfdavis on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:42:10 PM EST
    Yes. that would be a shining example to all of the young women, minorities, non-college educated, working class and all those without much influence within the power structure -
    QUIT WHEN THE WHITE COLLEGE BOYS AND MALE POLITICIANS TELL  YOU TO QUIT.
    You think she gives a rat's a** about being humilitated? what do you think she went through with the republican artillary pointed at her for the last 15 years. that woman has an inner compass like no one I've ever seen. take your pea shooter and use it to slurp up a yummy humility shake. cuz' girrrrl, you boys need it.

    [ Parent ]
    Look, Hillary is a grownup (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:54:26 PM EST
    like she said, she can take care of herself and she will be fine.  Now you go worry about Obama calling on his big uncles to help him along the way.  

    [ Parent ]
    Why the downrate (none / 0) (#230)
    by standingup on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:43:38 PM EST
    of Lego's comment? Even though ratings don't officially count for anything with the site software, I fail to see how the comment is worthy of a 1.

    [ Parent ]
    Going to hope (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by cloudy on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:51:48 PM EST
    this is just their way of managing expectations.

    "We don't trust those polls," said a top Clinton staffer. "He's going to win by high double digits."
    it will be over when they vote in August (5.00 / 8) (#4)
    by DandyTIger on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:56:20 PM EST
    and not a minute before. The delegates (regular and super) can change their votes anytime between now and the convention, as we have been seeing. And since Clinton is the one who can win, and since she kind of likes her party, she should fight all the way to the convention. More power to her!

    Don't y'all dare give up on her! (5.00 / 12) (#6)
    by Kathy on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:58:57 PM EST
    She is out there on the front lines, fighting the good dem fight.  We have to stand up for her or no one else will--certainly not those tools in the media.

    Clinton is telling us to keep fighting.  Read the quotes again.  We can't let our girl down now.

    [ Parent ]

    You Tell Them Kathy...TL Gloom and Doom (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:00:42 PM EST
    free site...no whining lest you be mistaken for an obama follower.... :)

    [ Parent ]
    I just sent letters to all Arizona SD's telling (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by Shainzona on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:02:01 PM EST
    them (respectively) to change to Hillary, commit to Hillary or stick with Hillary.

    If she's fighting on...so am I!

    [ Parent ]

    I called them all (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by bjorn on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:03:56 PM EST
    a couple of weeks ago.  I don't have much faith in them.  Unless she pulls an upset in OR I think they are too chicken, even though she won this state!

    [ Parent ]
    Are you in Arizona, too? (none / 0) (#18)
    by Shainzona on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:13:11 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    yep (none / 0) (#111)
    by bjorn on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:56:34 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I wrote Harry Mitchell (none / 0) (#30)
    by Coldblue on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:20:23 PM EST
    and he (again) cast his choice against my interests.

    All I can say is that he is better than JD Hayworth, and that isn't saying much.

    [ Parent ]

    JD Heyworth (none / 0) (#45)
    by befuddled on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:27:06 PM EST
    That's like saying someone is better than Bush. I wrote to all the SDs and then Mitchell declared. He will lose his seat when his conservative district notices Obama's associations.

    [ Parent ]
    Si Se Puede! (5.00 / 6) (#26)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:18:42 PM EST
    Unidos con Clinton!

    I will never stop fighting for her.  Donate.  And if you can't, light a candle for her tonight.  I love that Taylor Marsh encourages this action.  I said it before, if you can't donate $, donate positive energy.

    Light a candle for our fighter:  Senator Hillary Clinton!

    [ Parent ]

    Exactly Dandy...obama Can Fool Himself and (5.00 / 4) (#55)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:32:26 PM EST
    his followers if he likes.  Apparently, he still thinks "low education" voters aren't paying attention and will try to game the system one more time.  It ain't over until the convention.

    [ Parent ]
    Lego, let go my Eggo (5.00 / 5) (#79)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:40:34 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    got it backwards (5.00 / 4) (#130)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:03:52 PM EST
    she isn't going anywhere.  and if she stands, I stand with her.  As long as she is willing to fight, I (along with many others) will be resolve to do so all summer long.

    In Tx, it's too hot to go outside, so I can stay in all summer in the a/c and make calls, write letters and do whatever I need to.

    [ Parent ]

    If she is a good Dem (5.00 / 3) (#141)
    by Serene1 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:08:49 PM EST
    she will fight it all the way to the finish. Like Hillary says you have to finish what you started not quit halfway or 3/4ths way through. She owes it to her 17 million voters to ensure that all Dem votes are counted and that the winner is selected in a fair and just manner. That is the way Dems ought to run nomination.

    But then if it is dictatorship then the dem elites, MSM and Obama supporters can keep conducting their psycho warfare and force Hillary out to impose their annonted one.

    [ Parent ]

    No, we bitter-clingy (5.00 / 5) (#246)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:50:32 PM EST
    small town and rural folk will spend the summer tending the land, growing food, stacking firewood and feeding critters.  Oh, and oiling our guns and smoothing the pages of our hymnals, of course.

    And if some big ugly skeleton flies out of the closet of Mr. I'm a Uniter Not a Divider Redux, we will sit back on the porch with a coupla beers and a coupla shots and grin a bit. Then we will get up and go back to tending the land, growing food, feeding the critters...

    [ Parent ]

    Media and Obama=Bush 43, 2.0 (5.00 / 13) (#5)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:58:37 PM EST
    Wow, it baffles me how those on the left cannot see the unbelievable parallels between Obama and Bush 43.

    The arrogance.  The disconnects.  The lack (and respect for) details.  And most importantly, experience.

    As a Texan, we witnessed Bush43 execute prisoner after prisoner after prisoner on death row, while the Texas media gleefully cheered him on.  And not once did they ever call him on his obvious incompetence.

    Now, we have Obama practically mimicking this SOP.  I am SO glad that Hillary Clinton is making the case to the American people that, "it ain't over 'til it's over."  She was smart enought to have an ad highlighting the talking heads saying that she was toast, when in fact, 1000s of voters think otherwise.

    Jeralyn posted once a few days or week ago several key and encouraging points about the nomination process and how it is too early for anyone to say they are the winner.  

    Keep going Hillary.  I just made a donation to your campaign.  

    You are truly polished gold!

    Parallels? (2.33 / 3) (#15)
    by squeaky on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:10:42 PM EST
    Do you think Hillary is just like Cheney as well? Because Hillary is just like Obama. They are both dead center dems, and that is only  because the party has shifted to the right.

    Maybe they look alike to you, but if you compare everything they have voted on, their respective policies, and everything they have said, there is near zero in common between the two

    I suggest that you remove the rose colored glasses and slow down on the kool aid consumption. You will then be able to see that Bush is a far right radical republican and both Obama and Hillary are center Democrats.

    [ Parent ]

    beg to differ (5.00 / 11) (#19)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:13:17 PM EST
    Hillary didn't line up to vote for Justice Roberts, Obama did.

    Hillary didn't vote for Cheney's energy plan, Obama did.

    Hillary doesn't run under the guise of "uniter" and splinters her own party with charges of racism, Obama does.

    And don't give me that "Hillary voted for the war".  Obama wasn't in office.  So no comparison.  However, he DID vote to fund it, so your parallel to Hillary is spot on there, because she voted to fund it as well.

    [ Parent ]

    You Are Kidding Yourself (1.50 / 2) (#34)
    by squeaky on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:21:48 PM EST
    I voted for Hillary but am not under any illusion that she is a progressive. But hey maybe you are right of center and loooove war, tough on crime stuff. Both are waay to the left of McCain though, if it is any consolation.

    [ Parent ]
    Nope (5.00 / 8) (#41)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:24:55 PM EST
    I've already lost two relatives in the Iraqi war, so thanks for being so offensive.

    Being a staunch anti-death penalty advocate, I find loss of life in war or in punitive situations to be damaging to the human race.

    I never claimed HRC to be progressive.  You can make your own conclusions.  But you can guarantee I will pull the lever for McCain if BHO is the nom.

    [ Parent ]

    txpolitico (5.00 / 4) (#98)
    by sarahfdavis on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:50:45 PM EST
    every Obama supporter I know has trashed my point of view by saying I'm hysterical or delusionsal or unobjective...whatever.
    they don't seem to ever want to discuss the real differences.
    It's all about what he's GOING to do. I see you got the same treatment.
    no respect for the fact you lost relatives. just more bulldozing.


    [ Parent ]
    thanks sarah (5.00 / 5) (#144)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:10:30 PM EST
    when i see my cousin who has NO life in his eyes anymore when his son, my second cousin, who together they would give me rides to college when my car would break down, kills me.  And for someone to think that I would support war angers me to absolutely no end.

    Being in TX and being rabidly anti-Republican, I took my life in my own hands doing some of the outrageous acts of civil disobedience I did after my little cousin was killed.

    But I felt I owed it to him and my family to stand up against incredible odds.  Maybe that's why I am so supportive of the Clintons.  They are the ultimate outsiders who truly want to help.

    [ Parent ]

    Sounds Like My Kind Of Guy (1.00 / 1) (#197)
    by squeaky on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:28:40 PM EST
    Or gal. Good on you and sorry for your loss. Given what you have said it is strange that you imagine that Hillary is your friend here. Read the fine print, everything is conditional and there will be no total withdrawal from Iraq if any at all. The foreign policy put forth by both dems and the GOP is war around the world in order to maintain US domestic interests. Oil, food, currency markets,  are all just causes.

    I do not care which dem wins, because as much as I disagree with their foreign policy and positions on crime, they are both 100% better than McCain and the GOP stain he will continue to perpetuate.

    [ Parent ]

    Dudette (none / 0) (#136)
    by squeaky on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:06:18 PM EST
    If you are referring to me I am not an Obama supporter. I will pull the lever for who ever is our candidate. In the Primary I voted for Hillary but have no illusions about her or Obama.

    Whether it is Hillary or Obama, those of us who really are against the WOT, Iraq war Afghanistan war will be on the streets protesting, because their stated positions are calling for a loooong stay in Iraq and more years of war.

    [ Parent ]

    i cant imagine any american (5.00 / 3) (#175)
    by sancho on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:22:12 PM EST
    president will truly pull out of iraq. not until the oil cant be gotten out of the ground efficiently. which may be sooner that most of us have been led to think and then truly all hell will break loose. why do you think we are building those bases there? had hillary "voted against the war" (there was actually no cut and dried vote to go or not go to war), her candidacy would not have gotten this far. i personally dont trust a megalomaniac to be in charge of the armed forces--whether it be bush, mccain, or obama. hillary is as good as we can do there, i think, and many in the military seem to agree. but if you are under no illusions, then you must know that the war is a bipartisan strategic interest of the united states (however poorly handled) to control the middle east that goes back to the jimmy carter doctrine. we may reduce our troops there but we are not leaving. and obama has been cynically exploiting honorable anti-war americans throughout this election. he wont get my vote b/c i view him as the most dangerous candidate running (and i cant stand mccain).

    [ Parent ]
    Offensive? (1.00 / 3) (#66)
    by squeaky on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:36:19 PM EST
    How is that? By pointing out that your infatuation with Hillary is getting in the way with your ability to see her war plans?  I was on the streets protesting the war from the very beginning. Never had a thing to do with supporting it in any way. If you are against the war you better write to Hillary and Obama and all your congresscritters and tell them to pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Our own countries infrastructure, health insurance crisis, rebuilding NOLA, prison problems, economy is where we need to focus. Not on the WOT, fighting al qaida from bases in Iraq and  building up troop strength in Afghanistan. There will be more US soldiers dead if Hillary or Obama are allowed to proceed with their military plans.

    And if you pull the lever for McCain you are for many more years of war dead. There are no shortage of foolishness when it comes to blind love, that seems clear.

    [ Parent ]

    Um, (5.00 / 6) (#95)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:48:48 PM EST
    I made the front page of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram when we had our own war protests here.  Squeaky, this will be the last response you get from me because you assume to know something about me when you know NOTHING.

    Trust me when I say, that my REPUBLICAN representatives know VERY well who I am.  I had the HONOR of having Congressman Michael Burgess call my house and he HUNG up on me after I gave him the what for for his vote for the Iraqi war.

    I trust McCain more when it comes to matter of war.  It was BHO who said we should go bomb Pakistan.  It was BHO who said he would meet with Iran's president (but won't meet Hillary for a non-mediated debate).

    Good night and good luck.


    [ Parent ]

    Good Luck? (none / 0) (#125)
    by squeaky on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:02:07 PM EST
    I assume nothing about you, and only know what you have written here. If you think that there is any difference between Hillary and Obama regarding their war stance, you are short on facts. Obama said that he would go after OBL in the mountains in Pakistan near the Afghanistan border if there was any actionable intelligence if that is what you are referring to. Hillary said she would obliterate Iran. Both have said that they will take the war to Afghanistan, and are pandering to warmongerers.

    And if you trust McCain when it comes to matters of war then you are for torture, for the WOT and essentially a Republican. You  will be reading about more friends and relatives that are statistics, because the GOP has more lots more war plans and McCain is on board for all of it.

    [ Parent ]

    Reminds me... (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Alec82 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:07:05 PM EST
    ...of my progressive friends who cast their votes for Nader in 2000.  They were so turned off by President Clinton's centrism that they didn't care.  I warned them.  Now there are signs of this happening within the Democratic Party.

    [ Parent ]
    Crazy (3.00 / 2) (#163)
    by squeaky on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:19:30 PM EST
    I think that it must be an ego thing. People get soooo invested in a candidate that they lose perspective of the bigger picture and it becomes about them and their own personal identity. Every attack by their opponents campaign becomes a deep irreparable personal insult never to be forgiven. Revenge is sought by taking pleasure in seeing their opponent, should they get the nomination, suffering a humiliating loss.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama can put two sentences together (1.00 / 2) (#17)
    by HelenK on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:12:33 PM EST
    and Bush can't. That is one hell of a huge difference, just for starters. Obama did not get Cs in school. His efforts so far have been successful. Bush ran every business into the ground. Bush is not interested in the world or anyone in it. Bush beleives the contstitution is just a piece of paper, and Obama is a constitutional lawyer. You would all like Michelle better if she were on effexor or valium or whatever Laura is on!

    There is delusion here, but this kind of crap is just silly

    [ Parent ]

    Do you know what a (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:15:20 PM EST
    disfluency is?

    They should change the definiton of it and just put Barack or Bush 43's picture by it.

    Also, when I was in the 3rd grade, I had the sense to know there were 50 states and could name all their capitols.

    Barack is walking around talking about 57 states.

    He's Bush 43 in sooooooooooooo many ways.  

    [ Parent ]

    But both Bush and Obama can only... (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Shainzona on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:16:02 PM EST
    string four words together at a time - so that means Obama can speak either words compared to Bush's four.  (Did you ever notice their cadence in speech patterns...so annoying - we turn BO off whenever he comes on the teevee.)

    Great!  And sooooo inspirational!

    Just what we need as POTUS!

    [ Parent ]

    Whoops...I mean "eight words" versus (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Shainzona on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:16:41 PM EST
    Bush's four.

    [ Parent ]
    75,000 people came out to hear (1.00 / 5) (#28)
    by HelenK on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:19:18 PM EST
    him speak. His speech at the 2004 convention brought the house down and made his career.

    Say whatever you want, but he is a brilliant public speaker and to try to deny that shows that there is not limit to the delusion and misinformation by posters here.

    [ Parent ]

    Try reading the texts of his speeches. (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by MarkL on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:21:18 PM EST
    Boiled potatoes have more life than his stump speech. He has a voice that people like, and a cadence that moves them.

    [ Parent ]
    His extemporaneous interviews are all online (1.00 / 3) (#123)
    by Seth90212 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:00:49 PM EST
    the editorial board interviews for example. Compare him in an interview setting to any other politician and every other politician will pale by comparison. I'm not saying this as some Obama groupie. If he sucked I'd say so. Obama cleans up on newspaper endorsements for a reason. He does not walk into those sessions with a prepared text or a teleprompter. In CA he got the endorsement of every single newspaper. The man is impressive and has a deep and poetic command of the language. Most importantly, he thinks about the questions and answers them organically and not with prepared political speech.

    The biggest fallacy this whole election is that Obama can't speak extemporaneously. He's actually better in those settings than in his speeches.


    [ Parent ]

    Are you kidding? (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:09:14 PM EST
    That is exactly what convinced me he was not qualified.  He was chit chating and thinking he could charm people.  All he did is talk about the skills he did not posess, and how he would just delegate.  The Reno Gazette was pathetic.  

    [ Parent ]
    Hmmm...he speaks better than Hillary off the cuff (1.00 / 3) (#158)
    by Seth90212 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:17:31 PM EST
    most unbiased observers would say that. Hillary also says "you know" a great deal which is the equivalent of Obama's "uh". Bill Clinton is also brilliant off the cuff. Hillary isn't quite as good as him or Obama.

    Obama is a real writer (no ghost writers). Most would say he's a very, very good writer. He cannot be a great writer and at the same time not be able to string thoughtful sentences together.

    [ Parent ]

    BTW, I have not heard a SINGLE (5.00 / 5) (#184)
    by MarkL on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:25:20 PM EST
    person say that Obama speaks better off the cuff that Hillary. I've heard the opposite, consistently, and that is what I have seen.

    [ Parent ]
    Hillary's problem is she speaks in canned, (1.00 / 4) (#225)
    by Seth90212 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:40:13 PM EST
    poll-tested political speech. Mostly just recitation of stuff she has memorized. You have a sense that she doesn't really believe what she's saying. Obama is guilty of this sometimes as well, but at other times he is simply brilliant. I would encourage you to watch his editorial board interviews. Check out the San Francisco Chronicle. He actually impressed the board more after the formal session when he got up to leave and they threw a couple of more questions at him.

    [ Parent ]
    YOUR problem is that you write (5.00 / 6) (#234)
    by MarkL on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:45:11 PM EST
    in canned, Obamacentric prose.
    I have seen more than enough of Obama, thank you.
    Hillary is far more impressive, as all objective observers agree.

    [ Parent ]
    "audacity of hope" (5.00 / 3) (#199)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:28:54 PM EST
    real writer, lifted the title from Wright, then dumped him for expediency.  No wonder Wright was peeved, he had every right to get angry at someone using his church for political purposes.  

    [ Parent ]
    Wow, you are drunk on Koolaid. (5.00 / 6) (#146)
    by MarkL on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:11:40 PM EST
    He spewed total BS to the Reno editorial board.
    He doesn't know what the f**k he's talking about when it comes to the Reagan era. He sounds like a Young Republican who's never opened a history book.

    [ Parent ]
    You're talking about his ideas (1.00 / 2) (#165)
    by Seth90212 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:19:33 PM EST
    which you apperantly don't agree with. I'm speaking strictly about his command and use of the English language in a non-telepromter setting.

    [ Parent ]
    uhhhh, i don't, uhhhh (5.00 / 4) (#192)
    by sancho on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:27:46 PM EST
    think that, uhhh, obama, is, uhhh, that effective, uhhh, speaking off the cuff. but it was clear to me this morning that he had practised the "lay off my wife" talking point often enough to spit it out with soundbite conviction--twice. i wonder who wrote it.

    [ Parent ]
    LOL.He had no idea what he was (4.00 / 4) (#176)
    by MarkL on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:23:05 PM EST
    talking about. His analysis of the Reagan 1980 election was flat out wrong, and a sop to Republican ideology. Yeah, content matters to Hillary supporters.
    Even Obama's famous "bitter" remarks were most notable to me because they actually made no sense: People "explain" their frustration with the economy, etc. by clinging to guns, god and bigotry?
    What he said made no sense.
     

    [ Parent ]
    Listen to him (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Coldblue on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:22:50 PM EST
    without a teleprompter...it's a different speech.

    [ Parent ]
    From a teleprompter (5.00 / 4) (#42)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:26:07 PM EST
    I sound fabulous too.  Bush 43 even comes off as a mental giant when he's not too busy squinting to read from his script.

    Wanna try that again?

    [ Parent ]

    By the way (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:26:49 PM EST
    I remember in 04 how many times he went out to practice his speech before the media showed up...it was like 4 times?

    [ Parent ]
    He can't improvise, though (5.00 / 6) (#44)
    by lambertstrether on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:26:52 PM EST
    Sure, being able to read from a teleprompter in front of a big crowd is a critical ability that any President must have.

    So is knowing your subject matter and being able to think on your feet. Barack "No Mas" Obama doesn't have that, which is why he lost the last debate with Hillary, and is ducking any more -- even the Lincoln-Douglas, one-on-one debate. Heck, he's scared even to appear in a Town Hall with her!

    [ Parent ]

    Actor, (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by suisser on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:36:20 PM EST
    not speaker.
    Off script he's weak and average, just like...well, an actor. Gee???

    [ Parent ]
    Facial expressions are (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:44:56 PM EST
    strangely exaggerated and lack all forms of sincerity.  

    [ Parent ]
    He's boring (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by waldenpond on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:40:06 PM EST
    He is not a brilliant public speaker.  I said from the get go... he's dull as dishwater.  When he gave speeches, we would ask 'what did he just say?'  No one could uh figure out uh what his latest cliche actually uh meant, then we laughed, now we just turn the channel.  He dull and boring and I will avoid having to listen to him if I am unfortunate enough to have him foisted on the country.

    [ Parent ]
    Cliche high school valedictorian (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:42:56 PM EST
    speech.  Actually, not even the valedictorian, the kid who just showed some effort.  

     

    [ Parent ]

    Is that your critera? (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by sarahfdavis on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:52:26 PM EST
    A motivational public speaker? I could crank out a list for you but
    it wouldn't be pretty.

    [ Parent ]
    Once again, the MSM (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by abfabdem on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:53:38 PM EST
    is touting that number but people who live there have said it's a two block area and no way could hold that many people.  Also, it's a public park that many people go to on the weekend anyway and it was a sunny day so lots were there to enjoy the weather. That number is suspect but if repeated often enough somehow becomes truth.  

    [ Parent ]
    the fire department estimated the crowd (2.00 / 1) (#139)
    by HelenK on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:07:11 PM EST
    "Fire department officials counted 75,000 in all, a record for the main attraction, Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.)."Chicago Trib

    Fire departments are trained for this, hence all the fire dept max occupancy signs in every public building.

    AND firemen are working class dems so they weren't in the bag for Obama, right?

    [ Parent ]

    Portland first nice day of the (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:10:20 PM EST
    season, people would come out to see anything.  So don't get so excited.  

    [ Parent ]
    And the free concert had nothing to do with it? (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by lambertstrether on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:27:55 PM EST
    Somehow... I don't think so.

    [ Parent ]
    50,000 came out for Kerry and Gore (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:08:08 PM EST
    No biggie.

    [ Parent ]
    Kerry got 80-100K in Philly (5.00 / 4) (#200)
    by lambertstrether on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:29:09 PM EST
    in 2004.

    So I would say being able to draw large crowds doesn't necessarily predict for success in a general election.

    [ Parent ]

    80,000 for Kerry in Madison in 2004 (5.00 / 4) (#215)
    by Cream City on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:35:02 PM EST
    when he lost the general election a week later.

    So much for rallies.

    [ Parent ]

    Big effin deal, nominate Hannah Montana then (5.00 / 5) (#170)
    by Ellie on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:20:13 PM EST
    She's actually got a better record than Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    BO can put 2 sentences that others wrote together (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by Ellie on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:30:40 PM EST
    Truly he is Teh Awesome speech cribber.

    He had a dream of becoming the change he wanted to download in the world. And while we're waiting, Yes, Sammy Davis Jr CAN! Got MLK?

    He will cure heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea and make all your @nus smell minty fresh.

    Apply Head On! His speeches are annoying, but his bullsh!t works!

    (I'm still not voting for him, though.)

    [ Parent ]

    The two sentences (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:32:08 PM EST
    are strung together with lots of uhs and uhms...and

    [ Parent ]
    thought Obama nixed mission accomplished (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by DandyTIger on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:05:29 PM EST
    announcement plans for tomorrow. Are they back on. I very much hope he does announce (the equivalent of) mission accomplished because it will be a monumental blunder. Without MI & FL resolved, it's not legitimate. And with the popular vote basically tied it's not over. And even with the delegate count as close as it is, it's not over. But  most importantly, since the magic number (2209 or whatever it will be with MI&FL) will not be reached, most likely not until August, it's most definitely not over. We really won't know until August. No matter what anyone says. And pushing this issue this early will have negative consequences. If not in August, then certainly in the GE.

    I believe he's trying to have it both (5.00 / 5) (#11)
    by MarkL on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:06:40 PM EST
    ways----announcing that he has more than 50% of pledged delegates, but not actually declaring victory.

    [ Parent ]
    Setting the narrative. (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by Fabian on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:28:27 PM EST
    And the fall back position, if events turn against Obama is that the nominee isn't decided until the delegates vote.

    Obama kicks back, lets the media crown him the winner while avoiding that particular PR gaffe.  Then if things go against him for whatever reason, he can play the "Nothing is settled yet." meme and take it to the convention.  His cash will provide a comfortable cushion against fellow Dems attacking him, no matter what the media says.

    If Clinton loses, I know she'll be gracious.  If Obama loses, I have no idea what he'll do.  There's always the possibility he'll play the Martyr.

    [ Parent ]

    He's going meta (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by lambertstrether on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:30:38 PM EST
    Meta-leader declares meta-victory.

    All this stuff about being nice to Hillary is bollocks. He'd put her away if he could. He can't.

    [ Parent ]

    He is welcome to be meta-President (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by MarkL on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:33:29 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Going Meta - what does that mean? (none / 0) (#101)
    by bridget on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:51:51 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    It means talking about being something... (5.00 / 5) (#211)
    by lambertstrether on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:33:11 PM EST
    ... instead of actually being something.

    Leaders lead; they don't just talk about what leadership is -- that's meta.

    me't* or may't* or (Commonwealth) mee't* adj.,pref. [from analytic philosophy] One level of description up. A metasyntactic variable is a variable in notation used to describe syntax, and meta-language is language used to describe language. This is difficult to explain briefly, but much hacker humor turns on deliberate confusion between meta-levels. See hacker humor.

    [ Parent ]

    Ah, finally taking bold action :-) (5.00 / 3) (#97)
    by RalphB on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:49:32 PM EST
    Can he do nothing all in?  Does every action or position have to be completely half-@ssed?  Why, yes it does.


    [ Parent ]
    Landing (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by CSTAR on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:34:49 PM EST
    Hmmm. Given that a jet landing in an aircraft carrier is probably out, maybe he can descend in a hot-air balloon.

    [ Parent ]
    "the crowned heads of Europe!" (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by Fabian on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:41:28 PM EST
    Dorothy: Oh please, Professor, why can't we go with you and see all the Crowned Heads of Europe?
    Professor Marvel: Do you know any? Oh, you mean the... thing. Yes.

    (Wizard of Oz, of course.)

    [ Parent ]

    And It Will Be Powered By His Own Hot Air :) (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:53:33 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I started out this campaign season (5.00 / 12) (#13)
    by Democratic Cat on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:08:35 PM EST
    thinking Hillary would be ok. I was not all that excited about her, but I supported her because I thought she was the most competant person on the scene and after Pres. Bush, I thought we needed competance in the White House more than anything else. But d*mn if she hasn't completely won me over with her boundless energy and fighting spirit. She is truly an inspirational figure to me.

    PowerOn SenC: The one w/the kick will close (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Ellie on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:18:48 PM EST
    Obama's prematurely tried to fake-close this campaign a dozen times only to be PASSED EVERYTIME by Sen Clinton, who's in it to win it.

    These victory dances are embarrassing. Do his low information voters really mistake the sorry display for victory? Really?!?

    I thought the premature endzone dancing was more a combination of fear, flop sweat and perhaps a desperate need to use the can. (And Jazz Hands, always with the Jazz Hands.)

    What is the lever of power that (5.00 / 4) (#37)
    by MarkL on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:23:23 PM EST
    Hillary can wield to get the SD's to change their minds? If she wins Oregon, I think Obama is toast---there's just no way for him to be convincing as the nominee in that case. However, he looks to win OR  easily, while getting crushed in KY.
    This is the most even race in decades, and yet Hillary is under unbelievable pressure to drop out. Who is on her side that matters? I'm not sure.

    17 million voters (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by nellre on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:30:49 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I'll tell you who: (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:40:11 PM EST
    Women (and LOTS of them), Senior citizens, Latinos (me), Gays (me again), working-class/working poor rural voters (see WV for details), old-school Blacks who know what the Clintons have done (see Jewel on HRC's website for THAT one), Asians, veterans, 100 mayors in Pennsylvania...did I mention women?

    Apologies to ANY forgotten IMPORTANT group.

    [ Parent ]

    Mark, she knows there is stuff (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:22:12 PM EST
    out there that will come out well before August.  I can find no other explanation for her serene confidence and the Obama camp's panicky behavior.  Media types have some idea and they keep dropping hints, but they don't want to be responsible for it.  Keep an eye on Drudge, would be my guess.  It'll likely show up there first.  Ugh.


    [ Parent ]
    His ploy (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:35:53 PM EST
    Create the illusion of having a clear victory, so that any reality will be perceived as stealing.  How disgusting is this?

    Your pathetic endzone dance (5.00 / 6) (#119)
    by RalphB on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:59:54 PM EST
    is really unifying.  

    It's the "WRIGHT DANCE" (5.00 / 3) (#129)
    by sarahfdavis on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:03:48 PM EST
    Humping the air while holding onto the corner of a chuch lecturn.

    [ Parent ]
    BECAUSE HE COULDN'T VOTE FOR THE WAR!! (5.00 / 5) (#128)
    by sarahfdavis on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:02:29 PM EST
    he wasn't in the senate when his a** might be on the line.
    and when he was, he voted for funding all the way.
    why don't you write in Kucinich if you're for the pure anti-war candidate. why do you have to distort the truth to defend Obama?
    True Barack believers... (5.00 / 5) (#157)
    by Marco21 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:17:24 PM EST

    aren't fans of reality. Never have been, never will be.

    [ Parent ]
    Another reason not to vote for BO (5.00 / 4) (#132)
    by Prabhata on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:04:40 PM EST
    I'm keeping score.

    He'll get my vote. (4.50 / 2) (#151)
    by Marco21 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:13:00 PM EST
    His supporters will continue to get the finger and scorn this fall if he can't beat McLame.

    "It's Hillary's fault" isn't going to cut it no matter how many times they trout it out so CRAZY FAR IN ADVANCE.

    It's like they expect to be peeling Obama stickers off their car bumpers this November or something.

    [ Parent ]

    Must be one looooooong (none / 0) (#148)
    by suisser on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:11:58 PM EST
    sheet of paper.

    [ Parent ]
    here we go again (5.00 / 6) (#154)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:16:08 PM EST
    why is it that obama supporters have the HUGE disconnect that HE WAS NOT A sitting US Senator when the war vote came up

    (he probably would have voted present anyway)

    BUT he has voted for its funding EVERY single time.

    He ain't no Kucinich when it comes to his principles on the war, or Ron Paul or Maxine Waters.

    Deal with THAT.

    No vote for Obama (5.00 / 5) (#162)
    by koolaidisntmysavior on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:18:58 PM EST
    Senator Obama is simply doing what he does best--he's trying to clear the field instead of prevailing over it.

    See Alice Palmer.  See his caucus victories.  See Florida and Michigan (the fact that he has had his lawyers block re-votes in those two states is not going to bode well in the GE).  See his premature electionation.

    He keeps claiming victory, but I don't see the magic number of delegates.

    His support continues to erode. See exit polls after Wrighgate, and bittergate.

    I'm sure he'll cart Gore out on Wednesday after getting his clock cleaned in Kentucky.

    More and more, Obama is being seen as an arrogant politician.

    Every day I talk to someone else who tells me that he or she will NEVER vote for him.

    Hubris is a dangerous thing indeed.

    Obama - NEVER (5.00 / 2) (#171)
    by koolaidisntmysavior on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:20:29 PM EST
    And if you're like me, and so many others, and you will NEVER vote for Obama, share your lack of love with Alan Colmes.

    Colmes@foxnews.com

    He wants to hear from the women (and men) who will never vote for Obama.

    Obama supporter behaviour=high school kids (5.00 / 3) (#181)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:24:42 PM EST
    Evenings when things should get mellow it  feels like when my kids were in high school.  I would come down in my robe screaming that everyone had to go home at around 2:30 in the morning.  I wanted them out of my house and to clean up the mess they made.  Funny thing is the kids would apologize, clean up and go home.  You know, you should not go to other people's houses and trash them for no reason.  

    SUSA polls out today (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by delacarpa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:26:55 PM EST
    Obama is tanking in some states. He doesn't do well against McCain. Clinton beats him bad in Ohio.

    I LOVE Hillary (5.00 / 2) (#251)
    by alright on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:28:48 AM EST
    She is a fighter!!!!!

    Obama's disrespect for HRC (4.55 / 9) (#48)
    by nellre on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:30:00 PM EST
    Obama's disrespect for HRC is disrespect for all women.

    The MSM going along with this pretense that the race is over, Hillary is out and her win in WV irrelevant etc... really has me mad.
    No MSM mention of Hillary's retort to Bush's Obama bashing in Israel the other day.
    Little to no coverage of her campaign...
    I wonder if the MSM and Obama would treat a male candidate with such disrespect.

    And Obama followers are still telling her to get out for the sake of the country. Sheesh.

    A big goal reached, end in sight. (4.50 / 2) (#71)
    by jimotto on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:37:47 PM EST
    When the voting began in Iowa, the Obama campaign had its sights set on winning the race for pledged delegates, betting that the campaign that won the majority of pledged delegates would be the one to sway the superdelegates and win the nomination.  Back then, it took 1627 PDs to win a 50%+1 majority, and tomorrow KY will put Obama over that goal, and OR will put him well beyond it.  So yeah, to people who give a crap about the process and have been working hard for the campaign, this is a big deal.  

    There is also a pretty good chance he will have gained a majority of pledged delegates tomorrow once the DNC approves the delegate slates presented by MI and FL on May 31.  He needs 49 tomorrow to win a majority even with the most advantageous seating for Clinton (Obama getting 55 from MI, 69 from FL and Edwards keeping his delegates).  That's the worst case scenario, if the more likely scenario is that the half the delegates will be seated, in which case only 44 will be needed tomorrow to clear a majority.

    As to hitting the 2210 target, he'll get about about 40 pledged delegates out of PR/SD/MT.  He'll then need 75 of the remaining Edwards delegates and superdelegates...around 30% of what's left.  Thats all he needs with the most beneficial seating of MI/FL for Clinton.  I'm out on a limb thinking he's got 75 delegates lined up.  

    So yeah, the nomination is not wrapped up tomorrow, but important milestones will be hit, and the end of the primary campaign is in sight for the Obama campaign.  

    The mind reels -- (5.00 / 2) (#220)
    by Cream City on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:37:36 PM EST
    there aren't that many Edwards delegates now, just for starters.  On that and on the rest of the numbers here, please provide your sources.  This just doesn't accord with reliable sites such as realpolitics.com, greenpapers, etc.

    [ Parent ]
    Everyone will vote. (4.00 / 4) (#105)
    by Marco21 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:52:48 PM EST
    Deal with that reality. I am sure he'll be the nominee, but I don't see how everyone voting somehow hurts Democratic party, the world and the universe in total.

    Get your arms around it. Everyone votes this time. Sorry it's not the coronation you dream of.

     

    Millions of donors and (3.00 / 1) (#88)
    by kid oakland on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:44:22 PM EST
    hundreds of thousands of Democratic volunteers worked our asses off to get to this point, a point where the verdict of the voters in states that had  sanctioned contests has been made clear: an absolute majority of the pledged delegates will be secured by Barack Obama tomorrow night.

    It's a big milestone. One whose yardstick Senator Clinton clearly embraced in February:

    "Each of us has to get to 2,025 delegates."

    Barack Obama will be poised to make a convincing argument to every Super Delegate (pro-Clinton, pro-Obama or undeclared) tomorrow night that he has the best case for them all to rally to his side and carry him past that number.

    Someone has to win by the metric that both sides agreed to at the outset. The majority of pledged delegates won by the DNC rules is that pre-accepted yardstick. It's the argument the Speaker of the House has endorsed.

    A principle that gets ignored too often by both sides, however, is that a primary contest inevitably pulls a party apart, especially one with two strong candidates; nevertheless, every vote and voter, every candidate is a part of the process of choosing the eventual nominee.

    Millions of Clinton volunteers and donors have made and continue to make a huge impact on this race. Millions of Clinton voters, in every state, have made history with their votes. That reality will impact policy and appointments and may well shape the VP. This nomination process will shape the Democratic party for years to come, just as in previous presidential election cycles.

    I'm not pretending that this will be an easy kumbaya moment. Most likely, and most appropriately it will be Senator Clinton who will set the tone and leadership for her voters and donors and volunteers. I am certain she will do so in an admirable manner. I wrote previously that in some ways only she is in a position to bring our party together. I am sure she will do so.

    Kid (5.00 / 9) (#96)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:49:06 PM EST
    I live in Berkeley.  I will not vote for Obama.  He and his supporters scare me.  After what Bush did to the presidency, I do not want a mob that thinks it's a movement running America.  I had enough of that mentality.  I want competent sane governing.  

    I tell you Obama and the power you give him is dangerous.  Totalitarians are equally from the left as they are from the right.  

    [ Parent ]

    Stellaa (5.00 / 3) (#117)
    by RalphB on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:58:07 PM EST
    You couldn't be more right.  Authoritarians come in all stripes and are equally dangerous.  

    [ Parent ]
    Tell me...!! (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:00:20 PM EST
    My family left the totalitarianism of an alleged socialist anti imperialist police state.  I will not fall for that twice.  

    [ Parent ]
    Absolutely! (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by RalphB on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:27:40 PM EST
    When I read some of the stuff written by Obama's supporters, it's chilling.  People in many places have fallen for the "knight on a white horse" and it seems to be the youth who are taken in first.

    If he gets the nomination, I will do everything I can to help Sen McCain become president.


    [ Parent ]

    Wright there with ya (5.00 / 2) (#208)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:31:45 PM EST
    Ralph.  Although it will be a cakewalk for McCain here in Texas.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm not going to tell you what to (2.00 / 1) (#126)
    by kid oakland on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:02:17 PM EST
    do with your vote. That's your choice and your right.

    But here in the East Bay we had 970 activists who caucused to elect 5 delegates for Obama from CD-9 at Beebe Memorial Church on Telegraph. That was a record turnout.

    I met them all because I volunteered to work the line. These were good people of all backgrounds and income levels and outlook...nothing like what you are describing. Professor Lakoff was there. Ayelet Waldman. Former Mayor Harris.

    The same thing for the 110 activists who met in a Union Hall on May 10th in Hayward to go out and register voters in CD-13. We registered 350 of our fellow Californians that day.

    Their votes and voices count, too. They're no "mob"...every last one of these folks, voters and volunteers, are essential components of the Democratic Party.

    Your vote is important. I disagree with your viewpoint. Calling fellow Democrats totalitarians is extreme and uncalled for.

    [ Parent ]

    Well, I hope all that GOTV helps. (5.00 / 2) (#166)
    by Fabian on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:19:39 PM EST
    Because Obama will need it.

    And of course, he'll share all that vital information freely and at no charge with his fellow Democrats - right?  It's all right if he charges the GOP.

    [ Parent ]

    If Obama really has (5.00 / 4) (#205)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:31:33 PM EST
    this all wrapped up, why are you hyperventilating?


    [ Parent ]
    You apparently don't think (5.00 / 3) (#99)
    by miriam on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:51:15 PM EST
    SDs can read (and maybe the ones who support Obama can't).  The Electoral votes are not there for Obama.  How many Democrats want to commit political suicide?  

    [ Parent ]
    These are Democrats. (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by AX10 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:12:36 PM EST
    They don't usually win elections in the past 25 years.  It's that the GOP loses them.

    [ Parent ]
    Sad but true... (1.00 / 1) (#172)
    by Alec82 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:20:34 PM EST
    ...the fact that the 2000 election was even close, that Bush was perceived as a uniter and that Clinton fatigue enabled such a state of affairs just goes to show how conservative this country is at heart.  

     I have to give it to the GOP this time around, though.  They chose the safest choice they could, under the circumstances.  I'm hoping that his association with war mongering and economic stupidity tanks him.  

    [ Parent ]

    I agree with you that Obama is unable (5.00 / 3) (#112)
    by MarkL on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:56:36 PM EST
    to bring people together.
    In that case, why on earth should he be the nominee? He shouldn't.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama the leader (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by sarahfdavis on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:57:36 PM EST
    I wish he could have set the tone with his supporters.
    He's still not doing so hot with that unity thing-
    "be nice to clinton supporters"
    jeezus, how hollow and condescending is that.


    [ Parent ]
    HRC will have her work (5.00 / 4) (#135)
    by themomcat on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:06:18 PM EST
    cut out for her, alright. Since Obama and his minions have split the Democratic Party, possibly irrevocably, it will be HRC and those of us who support her to bring us back together. HRC has always said that we must support the Democratic nominee, no matter who that is. It is only recently that Obama gave his tepid support for party unity. Obama's nomination has all the earmarks of the disastrous candidacies of McGovern and Dukakis.

    [ Parent ]
    When Clinton and Obama initially agreed (5.00 / 3) (#168)
    by Serene1 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:19:57 PM EST
    not to count Fl & MI, nobody had thought that the race would be this close. Almost everybody thought that by Super Tuesday we would have a clear winner and hence MI & FL not counting would not matter.

    It hasn't happened and instead we have two candidates in a very tight race. While Obama started off extremely well in the first half of the contest, in the later half he has been faltering badly.
    Hillary started off weakly but lately has been going from strength to strength.

    Taking into account the changed realities should be the Dem's outlook. Both candidates would make history if elected and hence when so much is at stake it is only fair that the DNC elites acknowledge the reality and find a solution for FL & MI which should enable us to choose a winner in a just and fair manner.
    Hiding behind rulz is not the way out especially when this election means so much to so many. We have to first practise the principles of fairness and justness before we preach to others.

    [ Parent ]

    Clinton came up short on delegates (2.33 / 3) (#201)
    by kid oakland on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:29:38 PM EST
    in Texas, lost outright in Wyoming, lost by larger than expected margins in the Mississippi primary (despite a clear Limbaugh effect), won Pennsylvania by a narrower margin than Ohio despite having more favorable demographics, lost North Carolina by a huge margin and narrowly won Indiana after her campaign had predicted a big victory.

    You are hanging an awful lot on West Virginia.

    The voters in TX, WY, MS, NC and OR count too.

    Yes, Clinton runs strong in Democratic primaries in Appalachia. That is a fact.

    It's not, however, a convincing Super Delegate Argument, nor is it justification for overturning the majority of the pledged delegates that Obama has won fair and square.

    (Mocking "the rulz" on a legal blog? Aieee.)

    [ Parent ]

    (Mocking "the rulz" (5.00 / 4) (#227)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:40:31 PM EST
    on a legal blog? Aieee.) Guess you have not been paying attention.  This site often finds issue with the "rulz" and works to change the "rulz" and how they are applied.  

    Heh, Kid, if you are so sure he has it all wrapped up, why come here in the cover of the night to argue with people when BTD is not around?  Makes me wonder.  

    [ Parent ]

    TX, WY, MS, NC (5.00 / 2) (#242)
    by RalphB on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:48:17 PM EST
    are red states which will stay red, though they definitely do count, especially in the fall.  Got another piss poor argument for us?

    [ Parent ]
    Obama had a strong first half to his credit (5.00 / 2) (#248)
    by Serene1 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:53:01 PM EST
    Hillary has a strong second half to her credit. That is the reality whether you choose to believe it or not.

    She won Ohio and Texas convincingly when she was declared finished by MSM, and Dem elites and of course by your blog.She won PA handily again when she was hounded literally everyday by the above mentioned parties to quit.
    She won Indiana, a state which not long back Obama himself declared as the tie breaker since it was a given that Hillary would win PA and he would win NC. He won NC handily. And then she actually gave him a knoock out blow in WV. And mind you all these states registered record turnouts. What does that say. To me it says that the game has changed - the frontrunner has suddenly become the frontrunner on paper not in the ground and it is in fact the runnerup who is now the front runner in the ground.

    But Hey lets all hide behind rulz and refuse to acknowledge the fact that the ground realities have changed. Lets just pretend that the rulz are some 10 commandment which are not bound to reflect ground realities.

    And finally lets not get into the texas delegate allotment. Its opening a can of worms.

    [ Parent ]

    Don't forget NY, OH, MA, CA, NV (5.00 / 2) (#249)
    by kredwyn on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:56:07 PM EST
    NM, MO, Fla and MI in your listing there. Oh right...she won those.

    Nevermind...

    Not a camp follower for either candidate, kid. But I have to confess that I find your version of the "Hey!!! She lost these or didn't get as many delegates as she could've" argument a bit weird.

    [ Parent ]

    After what Hillary and Bill Clinton have done for (5.00 / 4) (#183)
    by bridget on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:25:18 PM EST
    the Dem party and after what they had to endure in this primary

    and witnessing them both getting trashed and ridiculed in media and on the blogs for years, months, days 24/7 -if it was up to me:

    If Obama is handed the nomination I wish the whole Clinton family would take a lovely vacation on the Cote d'Azur, Bali, or another fabulous place and enjoy themselves. They deserve it because They couldn't have done more for the Dem party.

    So Obama better solve his own problems. Together with his fanatic followers like that fellow from the Americablog. They broke it, they better fix it. And yes, we do have the list of the accountable Superdelegates. (btw.That reminds me of the fabulous article by Jerseygirl Kristen Breitweiser. Def. worth a read).

    To Cry now for the oh so "admirable" Hillary who couldn't do a thing right for the Obamafolks who used every rightwing talking point against her to heal the party for Obama is not only pathetic but offensive.

    my two cents

    [ Parent ]

    As for what was agreed by the DNC (5.00 / 3) (#235)
    by Cream City on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:45:29 PM EST
    at the outset, the rule was that states with primaries too soon would lose half their delegates.  Then Obama delegates Dawson and Brazile (ignoring her demurrals so nonsensical that even Campbell Brown called her on them) pushed the motion to amend that rule to remove all of the MI and FL delegates(and only those, not others that went too soon).

    So you are agreeing that removing all of the MI and FLbel delegates was wrong, and it ought to go back to half -- as it was at your beloved outset.  Good; we'll hold you to that, kiddo.  

    [ Parent ]

    Clinton (5.00 / 4) (#245)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:49:45 PM EST
    for all she's worth isn't the boss of the voters.  We aren't a bunch of sheep-like masses who will do something just because she says to do it.

    Whether anyone likes it or not, this election isn't just about her.  It's about where we've gone or not gone with woment's rights.

    If we let the folks that shoved Obama down our throats win, then women lose.  Sorry, I don't care how much you've volunteered.  Means zilch to me.

    [ Parent ]

    *sigh* (1.00 / 6) (#16)
    by April on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:12:21 PM EST
    Plouffe:

    When the votes are counted in Oregon and Kentucky, we could secure a majority of delegates elected by the voters.

    A clear majority of elected delegates will send an unmistakable message -- the people have spoken, and they are ready for change.

     __

     Hillary is a fighter, no doubt, but it is possible that after tomorrow an important metric will be reached in the delegate count.

     The ONLY reason that Obama is looking like the nominee is because of the numbers. He leads in delegates, super delegates, and endorsements. He isn't being arrogant as you folks continually claim.

     The media isn't twisting the narrative. They are just looking at the numbers.

     The argument that she has the most votes, or the popular vote is specious at best, and unrealistic at worst.

     I admire Hillary's grit for not giving up, and setting an example as a tough woman,  but let's face facts the numbers don't bode well for her winning the nomination.
     

    Thank you for reinforcing why I will (5.00 / 9) (#24)
    by chancellor on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:18:10 PM EST
    never vote for Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    "Sigh" right back at ya (5.00 / 9) (#35)
    by suisser on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:22:03 PM EST
    I grow so weary of you people and your attitude.

    [ Parent ]
    Trying a different tack today? (5.00 / 6) (#38)
    by MarkL on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:24:09 PM EST
    Don't bother---your credibility is shot.

    [ Parent ]
    She is better prepared today. (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Fabian on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:31:46 PM EST
    But still the same old April who isn't good for much more than repeating the approved Obama narratives and the predictable talking points.  Saves me the trouble of going to the Team O websites to get them.

    [ Parent ]
    Funny how much (1.00 / 5) (#160)
    by April on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:17:51 PM EST
    your tone reminds me of Pat Buchannon.

    He's pro-Hillary too.

    [ Parent ]

    I think you spelled his name wrong. (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by Fabian on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:24:38 PM EST
    Google and wikipedia are your friends.

    Just helping out an online friend - who needs to get her facts straight.

    [ Parent ]

    Funny (1.00 / 3) (#202)
    by April on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:29:48 PM EST
    I have noticed the wingnuts on Powerline are also obsessed with spelling!

    I guess I am not an 'elitist' after all. I can't even spell!

    [ Parent ]

    then (5.00 / 3) (#187)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:26:20 PM EST
    I have a new found respect for Pat Buchanan.

    All that money Obama is paying you "make-nice" bloggers and you don't have spell check?

    Thought you were all the "creative-super-savvy-ultra-cool-techie" types?

    [ Parent ]

    Sad comment that. (1.00 / 3) (#194)
    by April on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:28:16 PM EST
    I am not getting paid.

    And BTD is not my talking points guru.

    [ Parent ]

    Even better! (4.20 / 5) (#212)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:33:11 PM EST
    a free concern troll!

    Man, Senator Obama, whatta guy!

    [ Parent ]

    yes (5.00 / 5) (#39)
    by sas on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:24:32 PM EST
    an important metric can be reached tomorrow - she will be ahead by even more in the popular vote....

    [ Parent ]
    Rinse, repeat (5.00 / 7) (#58)
    by lambertstrether on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:33:03 PM EST
    The only metric that matters is the EVs, because those are the numbers that count in November. I realize that Obama only cares about winning the nomination, hence the scorched earth tactic of baseless charges of racism, and the hostile takeover of the Party machinery by his Movement, but some of us really do care about the general...

    [ Parent ]
    Given two roughly equal choices, yes. (none / 0) (#70)
    by MarkL on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:37:38 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I love being called (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:42:05 PM EST
    irrelevant, don't you?

    [ Parent ]
    It's great (1.00 / 6) (#173)
    by April on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:21:06 PM EST
    being insulted because I can count.

    Total Delegates    1913 - 1721    Obama + 192
    Super Delegates    303 - 278    Obama + 25
    Pledged Delegates    1610 - 1443    Obama + 167
    Popular Vote    49.3 - 47.5    Obama +1.8
    Popular Vote (w/FL)    48.5 - 47.6    Obama +0.9

     Do you really think every superdelegate is gonna switch, and that Clinton is going to make a 167 delegate lead?

    Or is your plan to portray Barack as a secret muslim before Nov?

    [ Parent ]

    No (5.00 / 6) (#195)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:28:27 PM EST
    but I love how you think you can "get" me with that.

    Seriously, is this your line of defense?  Answering me with a not-so-subtle insult at my intelligence.

    Look, "Sweetie", run along back to Daily Kos.  They miss you ironing their shirts.

    [ Parent ]

    I think you're forgetting (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by miriam on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:48:41 PM EST
    that delegates and Super delegates can change their minds (votes) at any time.  If Obama does not win the nomination on the first go-round in Denver, all bets are off.  Or, if yet another rock is lifted and some new Obama scandal crawls out, it's also all bets are off.  So don't be so cock-sure of yourself--Obama won't be the first one that hubris has brought down.  

    [ Parent ]
    I don't really get it (3.00 / 2) (#76)
    by s5 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:39:59 PM EST
    What will the argument for Hillary be after June 3? Everyone will have voted, more superdelegates and Edwards delegates will have endorsed Obama, MI & FL will be resolved, and the polls will continue to show a significant lead for Obama. What's left for Hillary Clinton at that point?

    If she's expecting delegates to switch in her favor, that's not the direction this is going. It may not be over, but it's not January either. This thing is almost done.

    [ Parent ]

    The "thing" might be almost done. (5.00 / 3) (#134)
    by Fabian on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:06:07 PM EST
    But Hillary isn't.  Besides, being seen as a quitter really damages a candidate's chances in the GE.  Kind of like when Obama yanked his name off the MI ballot and gave up on WV and all those hard working voters.

    [ Parent ]
    What it is now (5.00 / 1) (#231)
    by lambert on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:44:20 PM EST
    Hillary wins in the EC; Obama's a lot riskier in the EC. That's a judgment for all the delegates, pledged or not, to make. Plus the popular vote, we hope. And affidavits from TX, in case anybody starts yammering about Teh Rulez.....

    [ Parent ]
    asdf (1.00 / 2) (#198)
    by 2liberal on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:28:44 PM EST
    I am not posting to gloat but it just seems to me that you are swimming against the tide. The supers went from Clinton up twenty to Obama up twenty six in a very short time period. Unless something drastic happens i don't see how that momentum is going to change.

    I am not calling for Clinton to drop out - it is a very close race and she has no obligation to. But once the primaries are over I think the delegates should make their views known one way or the other so the nominee (read: obama) can get the GE underway in serious mode.

    Hillary lost and sexism had nothing to do with it. She has been beaten - just barely - in a very close campaign.

    So if you aren't writing to gloat (5.00 / 6) (#218)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:36:23 PM EST
    then why are you writing?  For the sake of unity?

    [ Parent ]
    Just like Gore was beaten in 2000 (5.00 / 4) (#224)
    by Serene1 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:39:56 PM EST
    by not counting FL then and by not counting FL & MI now.

    [ Parent ]
    Ban me (1.00 / 2) (#226)
    by April on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:40:25 PM EST
    It won't hurt my feelings.

    I will just note that Hillary has a lot more class than you do.

    At least she has the guts to be realistic.

    hmm? (none / 0) (#239)
    by iago on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:46:42 PM EST
    Did I break a rule?

    I'm so glad to hear Hillary is upbeat... (none / 0) (#252)
    by Rainsong on Tue May 20, 2008 at 06:25:25 AM EST

    I still think this campaign is showing the fragile fault lines in the Dem Party that have long been papered over and hidden at election times, eg the old northern versus southern Democrat thing, and indicates a huge power struggle is playing out.

    The Dem Party leadership (ie the "Obama Wing") appear to be very confident that they can wear the loss of a significant percentage of defections. I suspect, because no matter how weak Obama may be electorally, they see McCain and the Repub Party, as even weaker still.

    A window-of-opportunity while the Repubs are in disarray, to win an ongoing internal faction power struggle thats been bubbling away hidden for years. As Donna Brazille said along the lines, that the old fragile Democrat coalitions are no longer necessary.

    I see the misogyny at Clinton (and by association to women in general), partly, as just the handiest weapon-of-convenience used to bring the "Clinton wing" down. If it had been a male candidate from that wing, another weapon would have been found and used (and might have worked quicker!). Bribery, threats etc wouldn't work on Hillary, but might on others.

    I hope she doesn't take VP slot if offered, because I think she would only be offered it as a very last resort to help Obama win, and only if they are genuinely worried about the rate of defections perhaps being somewhat higher, than they originally anticipated.

    Trying to suppress her vote hasn't worked in recent primary states. Possibly, this is why they are playing Edwards now, to see if he helps with those stubborn Clinton wing demographics. If Edwards doesn't help, then they might try a couple more possibilities before the Convention.

    If Obama is inaugurated, then Hillary as VP would immediately be hobbled and caged off from any power. Thanks for all your help with the voters, now Eff Off. She wouldn't even be able to help defend her own supporting factions within the Party. Whatever is left of the Clinton wing will likely be purged from Congress in 2010.

    Strangely, I personally didn't think much of Hillary at first, and was quite undecided between Obama and Clinton after all the early runners dropped out. Originally I saw both as equally bleh.

    But South Carolina and the race-card being played by someone woke me up with a huge WTF?
    Why would any Dem candidate, (let alone the Clintons!) ever play the race-card? With the Party's history? Didn't make sense.

    At first I thought the GOP were playing games, but it was still early in their own nomination race. That didn't make sense either.

    When I found out that the Obama campaign had been the culprit, at first I thought sadly, ohhh.. just a mistake of inexperience. An unfortunate blunder. It will blow over. But no, he did it deliberately, and kept pushing it, and ramming it hard.

    Obama lost me with that. Deal-breaker Number One.

    Then the ongoing, never-ending litany of other dirty tricks, the MI/FL debacle, the Party leadership behaviour, and the misogyny etc.

    I checked out Obama's record, of, well..nothing really, with some rather dubious flip-flops and questionable ethics. Along with an embarrassing lack of knowledge, of government, or policy about, well.. any topic. Just abstractions and metaphor, low-blow dogwhistles and wedge politics.

    Combined with the lies he's gotten away with, (personal and political) his manipulation and dirty games, his long list of questionable relationships (does he have any nice ones at all?) and the thuggish supporters both on-line and off-line in my world of workplace, neighbourhood etc - Obama scares the beejeezus out of me. He truly frightens me.  

    But on the other hand, if he hadn't done all that, I might not have found out what a great candidate Hillary actually is. She impressed me so much more than I ever expected to be.

    I don't agree with her on everything, and she did make campaign mistakes, but nothing major as deal-breakers, perhaps Penn was the biggest mistake.

    But Hillary has concrete solutions, solid plans, detailed policies etc, thinks quick on her feet, and an impressive resume and record of achievement over a long professional career to back up her statements. It was a big surprise, but a pleasant one, to me.

    Anyway, I just don't relate at all to the emerging Dem Party's politics, empty do-nothing policies or tactics, or even see it as the 'lesser of two evils' relative to the Republican Party any more. Looking back to 2006, I can now see the pattern of deterioration, and I guess I can thank Obama and this primary season for helping me see it.

    So that said - I will be leaving the Democratic Party once the Convention is over, and its final reconstruction as a Republican mirror-image is completed. Been voting Dem since 1976, and all these years I never quite understood those of my family/friends/acquaintances etc who just don't vote at all, until this year.

    Fatal flaw of democracy the majority rules idea, for the majority can be sooo wrong.  

    But, until then - I will continue to enjoy watching Hillary on the national stage, cheering for her, and giving her my support. I'll even buy her books:)

    If your major consideration for voting is... (none / 0) (#253)
    by NvlAv8r on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:35:22 AM EST
    What a handful of supporters of Obama say on line, then you need to seriously grow up.  To blame a poorly run campaign that has been deeply in debt for the last 2 months on sexism is absolutely crazy.

    Anything said against Sen. Obama by Sen Clinton is just politics.  Anything Sen Obama says against Sen. Clinton is disrespectful and misogynistic.  

    I don't support Sen Clinton because of the war and her naked triangulation (co-sponsoring a flag burning amendment...are you kidding me?).  But I would still vote for her in the GE if she were the nominee.

    Hillary continues (none / 0) (#254)
    by Rashomon66 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:07:43 AM EST
    Only because she can.

    I really don't understand how anyone can be upset by the media going with the facts about Obama being the presumptive nominee.
    His lead is unsurmountable.
    Even the popular vote is not in play if you count every state - including MI and FL he still leads by 83,255. [Hillary only leads by 20,000 if you count MI but don't count IA, NV, ME and WA].
    And even if she is more electable - so what? She has not won the primary.
    You don't win a championship because you are considered better in the eyes of the judges. You win in the field playing the game by the rules.
    I want to win in November and I would vote for Hillary - but I would feel uneasy about giving her the nomination in some back room deal, which is the only way she can get it now.

    Hillary to Obama: "It's Nowhere Near Over" | 245 comments (245 topical)