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Hillary Wins West Virginia

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:23:00 PM EST
Tags: West Virginia '08 (all tags)
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Update: First laugh of the night: On CNN, Donna Brazile says tonight is not a loss for Obama, it's just a win for Hillary. Do they bother to think before they open their mouths?

MSNBC says the exit polls show it was Obama's poorest performance in any primary so far. Neither Gore nor Kerry took W. VA. Bill Clinton did. Translation: John McCain just picked up 5 electoral votes if Obama is the nominee.

Update: The media is fixated on pledged delegates, talking about how close Obama is to winning the magic number. They don't want to mention that the 800 superdelegates can change their mind any time until August. They sure talk about it when one jumps from Hillary to Obama. As long as Hillary stays in, the superdelegates can consider electability in November. Obama has not shown he can win PA, Ohio, FL and those are crucial in November. [More...]

Update: Unbelievable. An Obama superdelegate from W. Va. is on saying he will vote for Obama even though Hillary won his state because that's his job as a superdelegate, to vote for the best candidate in his view. When Hillary suggests superdelegates vote their conscience, people scream about how they are violating the will of the voters.

The polls are closed. The media immediately calls the primary for Hillary Clinton. She will win by 2:1. Hillary will speak in a half hour or so. I'll live blog it when she does.

Hillary beat Obama in the Independent vote as well as the Democrats.

Ann Lewis says there are enough uncommitted superdelegates left to swing the total to Hillary. She also says that Hillary will be ahead in the popular vote by June 3. She agrees the race won't go to August.

Comments now closed.

< Hillary Says The Race Goes On | Florida And Michigan >

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    • Display: Sort:
    Hillary Wins West Virginia | 215 comments (215 topical)
    Go Hillary, can't wait to hear the speech! (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by bjorn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:31:26 PM EST


    Independents (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by stillife on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:32:20 PM EST
    She won them 54-42.

    and those with college degrees! (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Dawn Davenport on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:34:03 PM EST
    hrm, does not compute! ;-)

    [ Parent ]
    traitors to the creative classes! (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Salo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:35:23 PM EST
    running dog proletariat!

    [ Parent ]
    Heh, he has pink eyes as well (none / 0) (#23)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:36:27 PM EST
    Judas Iscariot.  

    [ Parent ]
    Yup (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by ineedalife on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:47:12 PM EST
    And they are still going on that only the stoopid people vote for Hillary. She won the college degrees by 11 points.

    Once the media get in their narrative rut, they can't get out.

    [ Parent ]

    This is proof of one thing... (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by Benjamin3 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:00:36 PM EST
    that many of us have been saying all along.  The Rev. Wright issue has HURT him badly, with voters all across the board, including Independents.  Despite media attempts and the Obama camp's attempts to hide that issue - it's there.  It's a matter of judgment if nothing else.  If it takes Obama 21 years to figure Rev. Wright out and disavow him - do we really want him selecting Supreme Court justices?

    [ Parent ]
    Can we be honest about this now? (5.00 / 3) (#153)
    by Dr Molly on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:13:40 PM EST
    Or is it still taboo?

    Obama does not really disavow Rev. Wright or his views. He is still a member of that church, and it is the overall philosophy of that church that is the problem, not just what Rev. Wright said. Further, the new Rev. Meeks is just as bad as Rev. Wright in the same ways. So, now he'd have to pretend to disavow Meeks as well.

    Everyone must think we are all really stupid!

    [ Parent ]

    College Grads too (none / 0) (#208)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:54:46 PM EST
    Hillary also won a majority of college graduates in West Virginia.

    [ Parent ]
    Clinton wins whites 69-28 (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:32:31 PM EST


    Clinton won Ohio whites 64-34 (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:34:32 PM EST
    Pennsylvania whites 63-37.

    [ Parent ]
    Must be why Fred/Frank Barnes (none / 0) (#113)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:56:22 PM EST
    just said there are lots of states like W VA.

    [ Parent ]
    Matthews tell Ohio Congresswoman (none / 0) (#177)
    by DFLer on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:37:45 PM EST
    he doesn't like the words "white people" !

    (can't think of her name - Hillary supporter)

    [ Parent ]

    Jones-Tubbs? (none / 0) (#184)
    by Josey on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:51:44 PM EST
    that's all I can remember

    [ Parent ]
    yes thanks (5.00 / 3) (#189)
    by DFLer on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:59:38 PM EST
    Stephanie Tubbs-Jones and she rocks!

    [ Parent ]
    yes she does! a great advocate for Hillary (none / 0) (#210)
    by Josey on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:28:06 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    goosebumps (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by sgdavis73 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:33:12 PM EST
    i have major goosebumps, i'm so happy for her and all of us hillary supporters!

    It's a 2:1 margin. (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by facta non verba on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:34:09 PM EST
    Obama gave his concession speech from Missouri. I didn't see it but both CNN and Fox said it was "poor" and "rambling."

    Awful (5.00 / 4) (#40)
    by Athena on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:39:34 PM EST
    MSNBC called it a seance.  Uniform derision for the speech - in which the only action was provided by the gum chewing of a supporter behind him.

    [ Parent ]
    I caught the first couple of minutes (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Cream City on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:44:37 PM EST
    but hit my "uh, uh, uh" limit faster than usual with this speech.  So I switched to the channel not showing it, Fox, to find people who can talk without driving me crazy.  And to say that about Fox shows how bad it has become in the media.

    [ Parent ]
    uh uh uh (none / 0) (#93)
    by facta non verba on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:49:42 PM EST
    you might like this then:

    Obama Drinking Game

    [ Parent ]

    Now, that was funny Athena.....thank God for the (none / 0) (#140)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:08:02 PM EST
    gum chewer.  lol

    [ Parent ]
    Wish obama Would Just Ramble Off Into The (none / 0) (#137)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:06:50 PM EST
    sunset.  I posted earlier they would declare victory for Hillary about one minute after the polls closed and they didn't let us down.  Please...someone wake up the SD's.

    [ Parent ]
    she wins, first up... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Lil on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:34:17 PM EST
    Richardson?!

    My estimation of him is going down (none / 0) (#20)
    by bjorn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:36:03 PM EST
    very rapidly

    [ Parent ]
    what a jerk he is. n/t (none / 0) (#25)
    by DJ on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:37:11 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Super D's are the good guys now per Bill R.! (none / 0) (#33)
    by Teresa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:37:58 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I can't even watch Bill Richardson now n/t (none / 0) (#79)
    by kempis on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:46:50 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Didn't Judah hung himself? (none / 0) (#133)
    by feet on earth on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:04:34 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Please (none / 0) (#195)
    by cal1942 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:14:56 PM EST
    not Richardson.  The GOP could use a completely stupid Richardson interview in the Great Lakes states.

    [ Parent ]
    Bob Beckel, whoever he is (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by stillife on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:35:00 PM EST
    says it's remarkable for an underdog this late in the race to win so big against the supposed nominee.

    He's been the presumptive nominee... (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:37:31 PM EST
    ... since the end of February, and certainly by the end of March. What does it say that so many people are turning out to vote for someone everyone says lost a long time ago?

    [ Parent ]
    The way the media (none / 0) (#211)
    by cal1942 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:47:22 PM EST
    behaved he was the presumptive nominee after the Iowa caucuses.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama's Campaign (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Athena on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:41:08 PM EST
    How much did Obama outspend her?  He was running a stealth campaign while he hid from the WV voters.

    Not the mark of a leader - hiding from voters in WV.

    [ Parent ]

    2 to 1 (5.00 / 3) (#107)
    by badu on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:52:39 PM EST
    He outspent her 2 to 1.

    [ Parent ]
    Judas is on tv (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:35:09 PM EST
    Man, is his career finished or what?  Who can trust a loser like that now?  He is creepy as well.  

    Nah (none / 0) (#24)
    by Salo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:36:29 PM EST
    he's the peter principle in the flesh.

    [ Parent ]
    Everytime (none / 0) (#28)
    by Lil on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:37:32 PM EST
    I hear him, I can't believe he was a contender...oh nice he says she'd be a stong running mate...hmmmm.

    [ Parent ]
    His resume was a contender (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by ruffian on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:27:14 PM EST
    Not so much he himself.

    [ Parent ]
    Woolf...says it (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:35:49 PM EST
    He outspent Hillary 2:1.  

    Poetic justice (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by stillife on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:37:43 PM EST
    she beat him 2:1.

    [ Parent ]
    He cannot buy the votes if he wanted. (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:39:40 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Mail Order Votes (5.00 / 5) (#105)
    by Athena on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:52:15 PM EST
    That's the elitism os Obama - essentially trying to order votes by mail without deigning to visit the state.  Using money rather than work.  Very wrong in this state - but revealing about Obama.

    Too busy running victory laps to campaign this past week.

    [ Parent ]

    Nice (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by chrisvee on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:46:25 PM EST
    that he refuted Richardson's point about this being a state in which Clinton campaigned very hard (and Obama not by implication).

    Donna Brazile is being rather restrained -- but framing this as a big win for Clinton rather than a loss for Obama.  We apparently now have two person races where there is no loser. :-)

    [ Parent ]

    Odd, how can you not be the loser (none / 0) (#85)
    by bjorn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:47:49 PM EST
    if it is a 35% margin?

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (5.00 / 3) (#127)
    by chrisvee on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:00:57 PM EST
    Donna is using her 'inside voice' tonight and trying to stay unemotional.  I guess she can't afford another incident like the one after IN/NC.

    [ Parent ]
    lol!~ I noticed that. (none / 0) (#149)
    by nycstray on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:11:51 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Hey, we're all West Virginians now (none / 0) (#150)
    by shoephone on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:12:32 PM EST
    ...everybody wins...

    -The New and Improved (or just Chagrined) Donna Brazile.

    [ Parent ]

    myiq2xu at correntewire (none / 0) (#198)
    by cal1942 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:25:27 PM EST
    called it at 9 AM.

    Obama finishes second in WV, Hillary finishes next to last.

    They're so predictable.

    [ Parent ]

    And he had surrogates (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:59:14 PM EST
    out there campaigning for him (Rockefeller, for one), and he had campaign offices all over the state, and he spent lots of money there.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh, boo (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by stillife on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:37:19 PM EST
    Fox analysts are talking about the unity ticket.  I don't believe she's still in the race b/c she wants to be Obama's VP.

    wolfson, they've got to beat us. Yes! (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by hellothere on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:39:42 PM EST


    "They' are (none / 0) (#64)
    by Rashomon66 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:43:23 PM EST
    And 'they' will.

    OR will go to Obama. Kentucky will go to Hillary and then the last remaining ones are pretty small - so the wins will be insignificant. I think Obama will win Montana and South Dakota. She will get Puerto Rico.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama goes to PR tomorrow (nt) (none / 0) (#80)
    by Cream City on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:47:10 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Chelsea is down there celebrating (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by nycstray on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:13:37 PM EST
    with supporters right now. I wonder how Michelle will do contrasted with Chelsea?

    [ Parent ]
    No Contest....Chelsea Has Heart...michelle (none / 0) (#165)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:24:14 PM EST
    not so much.

    [ Parent ]
    I heard that Michelle (none / 0) (#162)
    by vigkat on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:23:19 PM EST
    was going to PR tomorrow.  Perhaps they are both going.

    [ Parent ]
    There are beautiful beaches there (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by samanthasmom on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:30:33 PM EST
    She should stay on one of them and just wave at everyone.

    [ Parent ]
    I agree with these predictions. (none / 0) (#158)
    by shoephone on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:18:52 PM EST
    But, thought the wins may be small, the calls to resolve before August will be huge. At which point, the SD's will be totally running the show.

    Do they go with their original pledges, their consituents' votes, their guts, their chances for their own re-elections...


    [ Parent ]

    Why did they (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Mrwirez on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:42:11 PM EST
    Go to Judas FIRST at CNN?? I hate Turncouts ie. Lieberman. I sincerely hope Judas has his day
    donate to Hillary (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by sgdavis73 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:42:44 PM EST
    i just donated another $50 bucks to Hillary. let's show our love!

    Giving up a rock concert never felt so good (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by BoGardiner on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:49:35 PM EST
    As when I gave another $50 yesterday.

    [ Parent ]
    $200 (5.00 / 2) (#167)
    by vigkat on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:25:36 PM EST
    Just because.  Depending on her speech, it may be more.

    [ Parent ]
    She's a millionaire... (none / 0) (#130)
    by kdog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:03:09 PM EST
    and you're going without one of the best investments I know of, a rock-n-roll show?

    With all due respect I think you're nuts...but whatever makes you happy.  

    [ Parent ]

    With all due respect (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by BoGardiner on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:21:15 PM EST
    of which your post had none.

    [ Parent ]
    Fair enough Bo.... (none / 0) (#201)
    by kdog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:48:01 PM EST
    my bad.  I just hate to see good people who give a sh*t throw their money down the crooked tubes.  

    No matter which stooge wins I think we're all gonna need our cash to pay for food and energy.

    [ Parent ]

    If Super-Delegates don't wake up (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by chopper on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:44:03 PM EST
    there will be hell to pay.  There are petitions up where people won't vote for Obama.  There are polls with majorities saying they won't vote for Obama. There is a Hillary Write-In website coming up.  There will be lawsuits about FL and MI being deprived of their right to vote and be heard.  The victims of the caucuses, particularly the TX caucuses, may press charges. And, most importantly OBAMA WILL LOSE.

    I want to know where that website is (none / 0) (#88)
    by badu on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:48:39 PM EST
    that's what I have been thinking about doing - writing her in in November.

    [ Parent ]
    www.writehillaryin.com (none / 0) (#135)
    by BostonIndependent on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:05:25 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Not all 50 states (none / 0) (#194)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:13:30 PM EST
    allow write-ins, and some won't allow writing in a candidate who lost the primary in the state.

    She's still got a decent chance at the nomination, so it might not be necessary to even consider an alternative.


    [ Parent ]

    76 percent of those affected by recession... (5.00 / 6) (#71)
    by Dawn Davenport on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:44:54 PM EST
    ...voted for Clinton.

    That, way more than the racial divide, is the real story, imho.

    CNN shocked: 45% say Hillary=change (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by BoGardiner on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:45:07 PM EST
    SHOCKED, I say.

    "But here is the surprise: Obama and Clinton nearly split those voters who named change as the most important quality, 53 percent for Obama and 45 percent for Clinton. That margin has been much wider in other states.

    So it looks like she's made some headway in West Virginia, offering herself as the candidate of change."

    Are any of YOU "surprised"?  

    Well... (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by Benjamin3 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:56:35 PM EST
    A Hillary Clinton presidency with some decent coattails - and yer damned right there would be some change.  I think that's why the "corporate" media has been so firmly against her.

    [ Parent ]
    They always attack the real change candidate (5.00 / 2) (#199)
    by dotcommodity on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:26:26 PM EST
    Obama is running as the bipartisan who will reach across the aisle and cooperate with the rethugs...so,...how is that change again?

    [ Parent ]
    His entire change (none / 0) (#212)
    by cal1942 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:55:13 PM EST
    schtick was complete crap from the start.

    It never made a bit of logical sense.

    [ Parent ]

    Oh yes, shocked! (5.00 / 2) (#166)
    by ruffian on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:25:32 PM EST
    How could people think a female president would mean change!! They really are low information voters snark

    [ Parent ]
    Donna: (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by Dawn Davenport on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:46:22 PM EST
    "not a loss for Obama, but a win for Clinton."

    um, ok.

    He spent gobs of money (5.00 / 6) (#89)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:49:08 PM EST
    He did not, not contest, he thought it would be a cake walk.  The presumptive nominee should not be losing.  

    To keep saying he did not compete, its telling those voters, ef you.  

    [ Parent ]

    2 x as many offices (none / 0) (#207)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:48:46 PM EST
    I believe Obama had twice as many field offices as Clinton did in W. VA

    [ Parent ]
    Jesus these journalists. (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by Salo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:49:14 PM EST
    That's pretty much the final evidence that Obama can't win the border states and the foundry.

    If the Dels pick obama we are dependent on a wholey experimental map for getting the electoral college win.

    [ Parent ]

    It's the K-6 elementary school mantra (5.00 / 5) (#96)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:50:38 PM EST
    that nobody ever loses.

    [ Parent ]
    Donna Brazill says its not a loss for obama- (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by badu on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:46:41 PM EST
    it's a win for Hillary ????!!!!!

    Donna knows about losing (5.00 / 7) (#91)
    by Cream City on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:49:23 PM EST
    and not even fighting to win, with her advice as Gore's campaign manager for him to give up in Florida.  She's just the one to lead the Dems to a loss again.

    [ Parent ]
    Evidently (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by cawaltz on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:57:53 PM EST
    Donna got some pretty ugly mails telling her good luck with her "new coalitiona and now she is treading carefully because she just might need ome of the "old" coalition. The new moron is the Obama superdelegate who had the audacity to insinuate that the Democratic party superdeleates who are undeclared are doing Hillary a favor by allowing her to make her case. What an arrogant as on speak on behalf of others who haven't chose to do as he has.

    [ Parent ]
    KO - can't bear to say 'loser' (5.00 / 6) (#87)
    by ruffian on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:48:21 PM EST
    about Obama. Instead he says 'the person on the 1 side of the 2 to 1 ratio".  LOL

    For realz? (none / 0) (#95)
    by stillife on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:50:36 PM EST
    LOL!

    [ Parent ]
    Oh yeah, I heard it. Too funny (none / 0) (#102)
    by ruffian on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:51:47 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    He went WAY out of his way (none / 0) (#122)
    by livesinashoe on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:00:04 PM EST
    to avoid calling Obama a loser.

    [ Parent ]
    11 to 1 word ratio (none / 0) (#163)
    by ruffian on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:23:26 PM EST
    He does have that pseudo-clever way of speaking sometimes.

    [ Parent ]
    Electability (5.00 / 6) (#98)
    by Missblu on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:51:01 PM EST
    I really would like to hear more critically thought out reasons from these Supers as to why they are supporting Obama. I have heard a new beginning, or my children like him, or he brings hope. I want to hear a more detailed analysis as to why they think he can win in the real election. Hope is not going to do it.

    What I really would like is a TOWN HALL where voters could question some of our party supers.  It really looks like Mc Cain to this observer.

    That would be so cool, a SD townhall (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by bjorn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:53:03 PM EST
    I would pay to watch that one!  

    [ Parent ]
    Remember all the cash (none / 0) (#180)
    by seeker on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:42:20 PM EST
    he has donated to various Congresscritters.  Hillary has made donations, too.  But not as much.  Of course, she spent days campaigning for many of them.  But, I guess that does not count.

    [ Parent ]
    here's the list -- (none / 0) (#191)
    by Josey on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:01:29 PM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/4w5qnm


    [ Parent ]
    And Obama (none / 0) (#213)
    by cal1942 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:59:21 PM EST
    spent days campaigning for Joe Lieberman in the Connecticut primary.

    The a-list boyz have conveniently disappeared that little nugget of information.

    [ Parent ]

    MSNBO theme is clear (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by ruffian on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:51:09 PM EST
    Hillary just has too high a hill to climb, even with this win...er, excuse me KO, being on the 2 side of the 2 to 1 ratio.

    Never mind that any delegate can switch at any time, as we have seen with HRC delegates switching to BHO.  They can switch right back.

    Roland Martin - we don't need WV, OH, PA... (5.00 / 6) (#101)
    by Lysis on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:51:46 PM EST
    Unbelievable.

    "You can concede West Virginia, you can even concede Ohio and Pennsylvania."

    His logic?

    Missouri has a lot of evangelicals and they don't like McCain, so that state is in play.

    Even Lou Dobbs called BS on that one.

    Think we can get Roland Martin to make Obama's case to the superdelegates?

    Evangelicals (5.00 / 3) (#112)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:56:09 PM EST
    also don't like the worshiping of false idols (aka false Messiah's).

    He's not going to take the evangelical vote.

    [ Parent ]

    Roland Martin is an Obama surrogate (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by angie on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:59:47 PM EST
    if we are being honest here.
    But please don't say "even Lou Dobbs called him on that" -- I've been watching him a lot lately (only one on CNN I can stand) and he has been calling out the DNC on a lot of their bs this season -- especially regarding MI & FL -- and he has been calling out the media bias against Clinton -- so, I let him slide on the immigration thing. ;-)

    [ Parent ]
    Fair Point. (none / 0) (#144)
    by Lysis on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:10:02 PM EST
    I'm so used to anti-Clinton punditry that I tend to lump them all together!

    [ Parent ]
    And while they're at it (5.00 / 4) (#164)
    by Nadai on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:23:49 PM EST
    they can concede 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

    [ Parent ]
    Roland Martin Doesn't Know His @ss From (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by MO Blue on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:57:59 PM EST
    a hole in the ground about MO. Conservative small town and rural Dems won't even vote for Obama because of Rev. Wright and Obama amusing his SF donors by dissing small town folks. Obama's campaign is so on the ball about MO that they held his Town Hall meeting tonight in Rush Limbaugh's home town which voted overwhelmingly for Bush.

    [ Parent ]
    I saw that (none / 0) (#115)
    by Step Beyond on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:57:16 PM EST
    I was flipping channels and caught that.

    Unbelievable indeed.

    [ Parent ]

    is it (none / 0) (#131)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:03:48 PM EST
    meltdown time with Obama pundits? or what? That's the most incredibly stupid statement. Has he looked at polling for MO? Obama can't top 40% in that state. These people are really, really out of touch with reality.

    [ Parent ]
    So he's happy (none / 0) (#214)
    by cal1942 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:07:02 PM EST
    to trade 46 electoral votes for 11.

    We low information voters no doubt fail to grasp the stunning intellectual insight behind Martin's calculations.

    [ Parent ]

    Juan Williams (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by stillife on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:52:04 PM EST
    I like him.  He says Hillary's victory is not just race, but if he raises the issue, he's a "Tom and a crazy person".

    Isn't it (5.00 / 4) (#116)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:57:28 PM EST
    kind of bad for Obama to run about calling himself the "presumptive nominee" when the voters of WV just handed him his *ss?

    Does he even use (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by stillife on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:59:00 PM EST
    the "presumptive" qualification anymore?

    [ Parent ]
    Probably (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:02:08 PM EST
    not after tonight. Is he still planning to crown himself the winner on May 20th? He'll certainly look stupid doing that if he gets blown out in KY on the same night.

    [ Parent ]
    Tonight is not the night she's going to (5.00 / 0) (#124)
    by nycstray on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:00:10 PM EST
    drop out.

    WTF?! DUH!

    Then why is Chelsea in Puerto Rico? (none / 0) (#146)
    by goldberry on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:10:37 PM EST
    They don't vote until June 1 or something.  Why bother going there if you are planning to drop out?  Ohhhh, so she's NOT dropping out.  Ok, ok, I get it.

    [ Parent ]
    That's what they were saying on CNN (none / 0) (#185)
    by nycstray on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:53:42 PM EST
    I was just reacting :)

    [ Parent ]
    Donna Brazille is on CNN now (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:17:19 PM EST
    she sounds a bit chastened. Wolfson is talking about Obama taking his name off MI ballot - Brazille looks so POed.

    Doesn't Wolfson, et al,  need to really STRESS that the GOP forced the Dems to move up their primaries in FL and MI?

    MSNBC loves (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by DFLer on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:23:15 PM EST
    playing the "uneducated" card on its underbanner-thing

    They could have played the "highest percentage of population serving in the military" card. But no, the trailer is stuck on playing the "hillbilly" race card.

    Willie Brown gets it right (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by ruffian on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:36:41 PM EST
    and gives Bill Clinton a lot of credit for bringing African-Americans into his administration and paving the way for a possible Obama nomination.  

    Honestly, it would not have cost Obama one vote if his supporters had been speaking that truthfully and respectfully of Bill Clinton all along, and it would have prevented a large part of this division now.  They really played that angle all wrong IMHO.  There was no reason they had to dis Bill just because Hillary was in the race.  

    By the way, KO is being a real a** about this speech.  I didn't hear what McAuliffe said, but KO is way over the top ridiculous.

    excellent point. (none / 0) (#181)
    by badu on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:44:54 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    It's great to see that Obama's marketing... (5.00 / 1) (#204)
    by AX10 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:26:02 PM EST
    and money machine can't buy the election in every state.

    Electability? (1.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Rashomon66 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:54:19 PM EST
    Who cares if Hillary is more electable?
    The primary process has her behind. If she can convince the Super Delegates then fine. But it is not like this process hasn't been fair.

    the whole reason for SD's (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by badu on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:00:08 PM EST
    was to pick the most electable - if it isn't the same as the winner of the pledged delegates.

    [ Parent ]
    Electability (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:00:42 PM EST
    matters if you want to win the election. I mean we can nominate Obama but we are going to go into the election knowing that we're going to lose.

    The primary system has not been fair. Caucuses are undemocratic. IMO, no matter who gets the nomination it needs to be redone. It's not designed to pick the best candidate for a general election. When someone loses the votes and gets more delegates in a state that says that there is a big problem.

    [ Parent ]

    She knew the rules (1.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Rashomon66 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:06:58 PM EST
    Hillary knew which states would have caucuses and which would not. She knew all the way back in 2004. Isn't it her fault [and her problem] if she could not get a team together to figure out how to dominate the caucuses?
    You cannot call something 'unfair' after the fact. Especially if you have lost. Can you imagine an athlete preparing for an event and then after a loss saying the rules were unfair even though he fully knew what the rules were when he started the event?
    He's be laughed off the court.
    She knew the rules. She did not have a good enough campaign to win.
    Now, the Super D's may decide otherwise but I don't think a win in WV or KY will sway many.

    [ Parent ]
    Donna, is that you? (5.00 / 3) (#155)
    by Dawn Davenport on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:15:04 PM EST
    If not, great transcribing of the CNN coverage!

    [ Parent ]
    Actually, that's not all accurate (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by shoephone on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:32:37 PM EST
    Here in WA the state Dems did not vote until just a few months ago to apportion all the delegates by caucus. So nobody knew what our situation would be, least of all Clinton's campaign.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm (none / 0) (#159)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:20:34 PM EST
    not defending her problem with caucuses but to say that they are equal to primaries is a grave disservice. It disenfranchises many voters and the number of people who participate is way below the number that votes. Look no further than WA state. Obama had a huge win in the caucuses but the primary he only won by about 5 points. Primaries give everyone an opportunity to participate. Caucuses do not. Caucuses are only attended by people who can stay for long periods of time.

    Well, if the super D's decide to go with Obama they are saying that they want a President McCain in the fall.

    [ Parent ]

    A win this big in WV should sway them somewhat (none / 0) (#174)
    by shoephone on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:35:46 PM EST
    Since Dems have carried the state in every presidential election they've won.

    We can't do it on Wyoming/Alabama/South Carolina/Texas/Idaho.

    [ Parent ]

    Kansas (1.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Rashomon66 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:01:42 PM EST
    When Hillary lost to Obama in Kansas 74% to 25% I don't recall anyone saying, 'how come Hillary can't win Kansas?'
    Or, 'You can't win the country if you can't win the middle of the USA.'
    So I'll ask it now.
    Why couldn't Hillary win Kansas? And why ultimately did it not matter?
    [She lost Missouri too].

    No one said that (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Democratic Cat on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:05:11 PM EST
    because Obama can't win Kansas either and he is unlikely to win Missouri.  And not winning Kansas or Missouri does not mean that you can't win the White House.

    Losing WV is not tragic in and of itself, but it's an indicator -- Obama can't win WV, and for the same reasons that he can't win WV, he's unlikely to win OH or PA. How many Colorados does he have in his back pocket to make up for losing OH and PA?

    [ Parent ]

    You mean the Kansas caucus? (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by lilburro on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:05:54 PM EST
    Obama 27,172
    Hillary Clinton 9,462

    Um, that's why.  

    Also, Missouri she lost by what, one point?  If that?


    [ Parent ]

    win is not a win...right (1.00 / 0) (#141)
    by Rashomon66 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:08:44 PM EST
    Oh, right. When Obama wins it doesn't count. Forgot that....

    [ Parent ]
    That's not a win in the GE. (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by lilburro on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:09:59 PM EST
    You asked
    'You can't win the country if you can't win the middle of the USA.'

    You can't win a state with 26,000 votes either.  Don't B.S. me.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama Will Not Win MO In The GE (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by MO Blue on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:03:15 PM EST
    without the small town and rural conservative Dems. He lost all those counties by large margins. He has two chances to get their vote in the GE. Slim and none.

    [ Parent ]
    aw, how cute! (none / 0) (#151)
    by fiver2 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:13:18 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Ah, I see now- (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by badu on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:07:21 PM EST
    Are you on the wrong site?

    [ Parent ]
    Kansas (5.00 / 3) (#154)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:14:17 PM EST
    was a caucus. Obama wouldn't win MO if the primary was held there again.

    You have to realize that Obama has lost a lot of support because of Rev. Wright. That is why his demographic numbers are so bad.

    [ Parent ]

    he barely won MO as is (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by Jeralyn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:18:39 PM EST
    By one point and they split the delegates.

    [ Parent ]
    Reasonable questions... (none / 0) (#142)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:08:58 PM EST
    Kansas was a caucus.

    Missouri was a lot closer.

    I happen to think that Obama can win the general, but it's becoming clear that he does have his vulnerabilities. These vulnerabilities make it appear that he'll have to write off West Virginia.

    [ Parent ]

    It should also be noted that (none / 0) (#209)
    by Politalkix on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:10:28 PM EST