ABC/Wash. Post Poll: 64% of Dems Say Hillary Should Stay in Race

A new ABC News/Washington Post poll finds:

Pushing back against political punditry, more than six in 10 Democrats say there's no rush for Hillary Clinton to leave the presidential race even as Barack Obama consolidates his support for the nomination and scores solidly in general-election tests.

Despite Obama's advantage in delegates and popular vote, 64 percent of Democrats in the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll say Clinton should remain in the race. Even among Obama's supporters, 42 percent say so.

Full poll results are here (pdf). Big Tent Democrat's take on the poll is here.

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    I love that we both posted about this poll (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:09:18 PM EST
    and you focused on that finding and I focused on the Unity ticket.

    It really shows where our minds are right now.

    This is great.

    Obviously we MUSt keep both posts up as they are about two completely different issues.

    Yes, I just added a link to your post (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:10:56 PM EST
    in mine. We wrote them at the same time so I didn't see your's before I posted mine!

    But it'[s greta because (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:12:37 PM EST
    they are about two different but really important findings in the poll.

    It is greta that we both posted, especially at the same time. A great lesson on how the mind works. I want a Unity Ticket. you want Hillary Clinton to do what she is doing. fight for her values and for her Party by staying in the race.

    It really is all  good.


    I had to do a double-take when I clicked on this (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by bjorn on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:31:43 PM EST
    one, I thought it was the BTD post.  Very cool you two are so in sync with each other and with your own individual vision of things.

    BTD and Jeralyn sitting in a tree...... (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Cate on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:04:49 PM EST
    Well, it IS Spring....

    Let The Voters Have Their Say (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by squeaky on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:14:37 PM EST
    Reid is showing leadership:

    Alan Colmes: Why have you not declared a preference in the presidential race?

    Mr. Reid: One main reason, I am the Democratic leader. I am the majority leader in the Senate. I have had Chris Dodd come back. I have had Joe Biden come back. I have had John Kerry come back from presidential election campaigns and I have to work with them.

    I'm going to have one of these senators come back and I am going to have to work with that senator and I am going to be able to look them in the eye and say that I've been neutral. ...

    Mr. Colmes: Is it possible at this point that Hillary Clinton can be the nominee?

    Mr. Reid: I think that we can all see what's going on and I think it's going to be very difficult, but am I calling for her to quit? No.
    Barack Obama is not either. This is going to play itself out for a while longer and on June 2, we have about two thirds of the superdelegates have already announced.

    We'll have however many leftover then? A couple days for Obama and Clinton after June 3 to make their statements to the unpledged superdelegates and we'll have a five month general election campaign.

    Remember, Bill Clinton didn't cinch the nomination until June 2.
    We're going to do that shortly thereafter.


    it always seemed strange (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by Josey on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:49:33 PM EST
    that a newbie senator would be in charge of the important Senate Ethics reform bill. There was speculation that the Establishment did that purposely to give Obama at least one bill to tout for his impending presidential run, although while crafting the legislation he was declaring he wasn't running for president. At the time, Washington lobbyists were funding his political career, but that practice conveniently ended when he entered the race.
    On a Sunday talk show yesterday, Reid admitted "choosing" Obama to lead the legislation. So the Obama fix had been in for a long time.

    Or (none / 0) (#32)
    by squeaky on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:16:02 PM EST
    Many were awed by the guys immense talent and saw him as a rising star. I would say that they were right, which, imo takes nothing away from Hillary.

    What talent is that? (5.00 / 7) (#35)
    by pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:20:04 PM EST
    The talent to be the POTUS?

    Show me.  What does he bring to the job?


    Talent = reading a speech written by someone else (5.00 / 8) (#38)
    by Angel on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:21:02 PM EST
    obama's Talent Is Backpedaling And Hanging (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:45:09 PM EST
    with shady characters.  Oh, oh, oh, and his biggest talent is playing the race card and then playing the victim.  Sorry, but this is the way I see it.  He has yet to flesh out an issue...cannot survive on generalities.

    Can't Help (none / 0) (#71)
    by squeaky on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:55:10 PM EST
    You if you cant see immense talent there. Sorry.

    Both Hillary bring a new face to POTUS big time. They both have wide appeal across the aisle as they are centrists and work well with GOPers.

    I am fine with either one of them. I voted for Hillary but now it looks like Obama will get the nomination, so what will he bring? I think his greatest gift to the country is to get young people active and invested in working for America. We are a country that takes a lot for granted being the number 1 superpower. Resting on our laurels is a weak and dangerous position, imo. and it seems where we are stuck. America is fat and lazy in a way and we need our youth to take the mantle, not one that is about lapping up the gravy, but one that is about service to he country and making America great. I think that is Obama's appeal and what he can achieve as POTUS.


    Look, Squeaky (5.00 / 6) (#78)
    by pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:02:55 PM EST
    You can't help me if you can't enumerate Obama's pluses.

    And we need our youth to take the mantle?

    Holy crap.


    Yes Energizing The Youth (none / 0) (#88)
    by squeaky on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:16:38 PM EST
    Is tremendously important, imo. I am not campaigning for Obama, not my thing, so I am sorry to disappoint you with a less than satisfying answer.

    Very disappointing (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:21:53 PM EST
    and totally unsatisfactory.

    Oh Well (none / 0) (#99)
    by squeaky on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:27:24 PM EST
    Maybe you should talk to people that voted for Obama, I didn't, I voted for Hillary.

    Uh huh. (none / 0) (#105)
    by pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:30:08 PM EST
    Uh Huh Yourself (none / 0) (#115)
    by squeaky on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:42:01 PM EST
    I don't remember (5.00 / 4) (#87)
    by mg7505 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:16:09 PM EST
    Obama touting youth involvement as one of his campaign promises. He's said how enthused he is about young people voting etc, but it comes down to him wanting (and needing) their votes.

    There's also a bigger issue here -- namely, Obama's pluses don't correct America's minuses. There's nothing wrong with our youth; it's greedy ADULTS who are driving this nation into the gutter, from corporate executives to ignorant consumers. Obama can energize the youth until the cows come home; it won't fix our problems.

    Another Obamamyth is that his ability to unite us will heal this country. Aside from the fact that I have no idea how he'll unite us or what goals he has in mind, I refuse to believe that liberals are in the wrong for not working with conservatives enough. We NEED a strong leftist President, not someone who implies at every turn that he's only touting liberal policies to get votes in our primary before becoming a directionless centrist in the general and as President. Unity within a party can get stuff done (see: Republicans); unity between parties means either doing nothing or doing the impossible; and I don't think Obama has the grit to do the latter.


    His Base (none / 0) (#95)
    by squeaky on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:25:11 PM EST
    Is young, so he doesn't need to make them into a talking point. It is just how I see it.

    Obama can energize the youth until the cows come home; it won't fix our problems.

    True for the short term, but the youth will be running things soon. They need some leadership, imo, so as not to turn into greedy adults, as you put it. Hillary seems old fashioned to young people so they largely tune out with her.

    There is tremendous energy and talent in America that he seems able to tap into. Who knows whether or not he will have an effect on young people beyond getting elected, but as I see it that is his biggest potential as POTUS.


    Oh, brother. (5.00 / 3) (#101)
    by pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:27:51 PM EST
    but the youth will be running things soon.

    Yes, when they're old, my dear.


    It's deja vu all over again. (5.00 / 3) (#110)
    by pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:34:12 PM EST
    :- )

    Youth (none / 0) (#113)
    by Cate on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:40:20 PM EST
    Oh yeah, all that intelligence and talent. Have you taken a look at the state of the educational system in this country? It is in shambles. Today's youth have absolutely no concept of a good education - it's been gone for decades.

    Your comment might be taken as an insult (none / 0) (#137)
    by Mark Woods on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:47:20 AM EST
    to the millions of dedicated teachers who deliver to our children the best education available, considering the bizarre demands inflicted upon the system by unfunded mandates -- No Child Left Behind comes to mind.

    Either way your comment is too sweeping, because most children in our country still get good education -- it's neglected and under-funded schools that need help, not more tests or recriminations.


    uh-no (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Josey on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:43:26 PM EST
    newbie senators are focused on keeping their mouths shut, not becoming a "sensation." But the establishment sees a cash cow and that's more important than having experience and qualifications for the presidency.

    I heard that too (none / 0) (#112)
    by wasabi on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:39:32 PM EST
    I heard Reid say that he "selected/chose" Obama to lead the Ethics Reform bill and I thought to myself, how interesting.  He was chosen to spearhead that legislation.  Interesting...

    Looks Like Hillary's Supporters Have Been (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:21:30 PM EST
    correct all along....GO HILLARY...NEVER GIVE UP!
    I am telling you....buyer's remorse is setting in for obama.  Of those 42% of obama supporters who say she should stay in the game, I imagine she would get the majority of them voting for her if she becomes the nominee.  

    Go Hillary! (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:56:54 PM EST
    I love that Jeralyn ad BTD posted about this.

    And you guys are not at cross-purposes, which is an imporant thing to note.


    How Accurate Can That Poll Really Be? (none / 0) (#6)
    by bird on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:28:12 PM EST
    From the article:

    "In general election matchups, Obama leads McCain by 51-44 percent, similar to the last two ABC News/Washington Post polls. Standings in a Clinton vs. McCain race are 49-46 percent, again roughly similar to previous ABC News/Washington Post results."

    "And as many Republicans say they'd defect the other way - 10 percent for Clinton if she faced McCain; 15 percent for Obama vs. McCain"

    "Age continues to look like a major hurdle for McCain. Thirty-nine percent of Americans say they'd be uncomfortable with a president first taking office at age 72, far more than say they'd be uncomfortable with a woman (16 percent) or African-American (12 percent) as president."


    See how smart the voters can be? (5.00 / 8) (#7)
    by vicsan on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:29:29 PM EST
    They know what the MSM is doing and they don't like it. Hopefully there will be a backlash for what they and BO's campaign are doing and it will help Hillary!

    well recall bill clinton's poll numbers (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by hellothere on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:42:20 PM EST
    during the impeachment. few bought the repub attempts to defame him then.

    So true and he (5.00 / 5) (#66)
    by vicsan on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:49:46 PM EST
    left office with a 65% approval rating in the polls. People aren't as stupid as the DC elites and MSM think they are.

    ABC News tonight also mentioned (5.00 / 9) (#8)
    by Josey on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:29:52 PM EST
    the poll finds Experience is more important than Change.

    Of course, (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:56:47 PM EST
    now that they think Obama is going to be the nominee the story changes. Experience has always been important to most voters.

    Which is what Hillary said (5.00 / 5) (#25)
    by pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:00:45 PM EST
    from the get-go when she compared herself to McCain.

    But the creative class insisted it was a slam at Obama.

    And here we are.  

    Don't denigrate the competition when it turns out the competition is better equipped.


    oh - that's right! (none / 0) (#51)
    by Josey on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:34:28 PM EST
    and Obamabots claimed it was a "racist" remark by Hillary!

    Pop quiz (5.00 / 5) (#84)
    by Edgar08 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:09:29 PM EST
    How do you know when you've said something insightful, yet regrettably negative about Obama?

    An Obama supporter calls you "racist."


    Reid Said The Exact Same Things On Geo. (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:30:15 PM EST
    Steph on Sunday.  Frankly, I do not trust Reid as he is a vacillator from the word "go".  It wasn't but a few weeks ago when he said this primary race needed to be ended for the good of the party (not the exact quote); and now he is all about letting it play out.  We will just have to wait to see if he changes his mind again.  

    Well, a lot of Clinton supporters have been (5.00 / 11) (#14)
    by chancellor on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:45:49 PM EST
    writing to the DNC, or calling the DNC, to register their disgust at the way Hillary has been treated by members of her own party. Some of these supporters are including torn-up Dem. registration cards in their mailings to let them know that if the Dems are truly willing to overlook the most qualified candidate, they want nothing more to do with the Democratic party. (I believe they are also referencing Brazile's remarks as another reason they feel the Dems are no longer a party with which they can be affiliated.) All of this has to be getting back to Harry Reid, I would guess.

    That Is A Good Thing And Shows That Words (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:50:10 PM EST
    and actions do matter.  I will wait a bit longer on Reid though, based on many of his previous stances that are subject to change.

    Chancellor....thanks for the good news though.  I know many on this site have participated in the calls and write-ins to the DNC.


    You bet -- wrote quite a note (5.00 / 8) (#24)
    by Cream City on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:00:31 PM EST
    to the DCCC today, too, saying that many in Congress are super-delegates who have done nothing to solve the MI and FL situation, and only for their own purposes as Obama supporters.  And that includes my own member of Congress, who got a lot of donations from me even when a state legislator in another district.  But no more.

    And I have written a blistering letter to the DNC about Brazile's behavior on CNN last Tuesday night, the second to the DNC about her.  I've burned the ears of two callers trying to get money out of me, too.

    Looks like we may have a great candidate for governor coming in Wisconsin, and that and EMILY's List are where my money will go now -- in addition to more for Clinton.  And my spouse agrees, bless him, so it comes out of the joint account. :-)


    Plus, I use their envelopes (5.00 / 7) (#28)
    by BarnBabe on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:08:22 PM EST
    That saves me a stamp too. My message is shorter but mentions Fla & Michigan and the PS is "get rid of Donna too".

    count me too! (5.00 / 8) (#52)
    by angie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:36:36 PM EST
    Sent my torn up voter's registration with a blistering letter re: FL & MI & Brazile's comments to Dean last Thursday.  Also, a nice little FU (not in so many words) response to Phil Murphy's email request for $ to fight McCain.

    Got My First Obama "Yes We Can" (5.00 / 0) (#124)
    by MO Blue on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:56:12 PM EST
    solicitation for $$$ today. It is going back with "No I Won't Items."

    I got one Monday (none / 0) (#140)
    by splashy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:30:02 PM EST
    Wrote on it:
    "Obama - You don't support universal health care. No way I will contribute!"

    Then sent it back in the pre-paid envelope.

    That's my big issue. The misogynist stuff is also an issue, but to me it's so all pervading that I can't make my decisions based on it. If I did, I would get nothing decided.


    i sure hope that is true. (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by hellothere on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:44:05 PM EST
    but with all the hoopla coming form the dnc and various obama surrogates, i have felt there was a high level decision that our votes were no longer needed or wanted.

    what infuriates me (5.00 / 8) (#75)
    by Kathy on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:59:11 PM EST
    are folks like Edwards making statements that sound to my ears like, "well, seh can stay in the race so long as she's a good girl."

    As if they are doing her a favor letting her stay in.  I'm not the only one who feels that way.  I was phone banking today and this woman had just heard Edwards and was absolutely furious.  "Sounds like my ex-husband telling me he'd let me keep in my own house as long as I paid the mortgage."


    My sense is that Edwards wants the VP slot (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by datadriven on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:40:47 PM EST
    Yes, his patronizing style irritated me as well. He seems almost coy and gleeful being pursued pre/post-NC as if stock shot through the roof.
    If BHO acquired the nomination maybe this will be his version of unity: have some other candidate from the primary battles as VP.

    The result is only surprising because (5.00 / 6) (#12)
    by bjorn on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:33:14 PM EST
    Chris Matthews and his ilk want us to believe everyone hates Clinton and think she is a racist, monster, trying to kill Obama's chances in the general.

    that's what they want the vote to mean. (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by Salo on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:41:00 PM EST
    sadly Pelosi and Kennedy are using Obama's lead to bash Clinton.

    Tucker Carlson Is Telling Chris Matthews (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:56:43 PM EST
    on Hardball that that people are seeing that obama is weaker than they thought.  And Hillary is still going strong.

    FYI...I know many don't like msnbc, but they are going to have all day coverage on the WVA race...just posting this because someone mentioned they probably wouldn't, on another thread...


    Anecdotal but (5.00 / 6) (#29)
    by davnee on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:09:49 PM EST
    I talked to two Obama supporting friends the other day that made a face about him when the election came up and said he's turned out to be a wimp.  These are two big lefties and yes even they used the term wimp.  They weren't necessarily bailing on him in favor of Clinton, and they certainly would not be bailing on him in November, but they were distinctly and increasingly unimpressed by him and said they didn't think he had much chance of being a particularly good president.

    it sounds like they bailed emotionally (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by hellothere on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:45:41 PM EST
    but are now wondering where if any place to go. i can't imagine calling your candidate a whimp and then still voting for him. but that's me.

    Yeah, well, I voted for Kerry n/t (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by angie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:53:48 PM EST
    Me too (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by Jane in CA on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:32:21 PM EST
    but I won't do it for another candidate that I don't believe in, especially when said candidate is doing everything in his power to obscure the fact that we actually have a nominee with the potential for true greatness.

    I agree 100% (none / 0) (#111)
    by angie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:35:03 PM EST
    I was more answering the above poster about calling your candidate a wimp & still voting for him.

    This is what I'm afraid of in the GE (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by nycstray on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:01:54 PM EST
    a percentage of the youth vote and others bailing on him emotionally. The youth vote has always been a risk . . .

    i don't see the aa voters bailing (none / 0) (#118)
    by hellothere on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:39:06 PM EST
    before the general, however in four years? that's another story.

    It is so Chris can keep (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by bjorn on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:20:31 PM EST
    playing the SNL bit from last Saturday!

    We Will See, But I Am Guessing Tweety Will (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:41:33 PM EST
    have changed his tune some after WVA.  That is the way he rolls.

    And, while not a Tucker fan, I think there was some sincerity in his comments.  Every once in awhile he does surprise us.


    I hope you are right! (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by bjorn on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:04:35 PM EST
    How crazy is it that every once in a while it is Pat Buchanan or Tucker Carlson who say the smart thing?

    And I Thought I Was The Only One Feeling (none / 0) (#135)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:10:13 AM EST
    that way about Pat.  Sometimes he is the voice of reason out there...

    Surprisingly (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by IzikLA on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:11:52 PM EST
    Tucker has shifted lately and has defended Clinton plenty.  He seems almost level-headed and practical compared to most of these talking head yahoo's we see every day now.

    Just Goes To Show...Life Is Like A Box Of (none / 0) (#136)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:11:37 AM EST
    chocolates; you never know what you're gonna get.  There are hardcore people out there who never had anything nice to say about Hillary that are changing their tune.

    I want her to go to the end of the primaries (5.00 / 15) (#15)
    by davnee on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:47:38 PM EST
    I think this is so important.  Not just for HRC's chances (slim as they may be), but more for women and for democracy.  I want her to play the string out and not quit.  Give it her all and not fold to any man no matter what they do or say.  That kind of courage and grit is important for the first viable female presidential candidate to demonstrate.  I believe a lot of books and articles will be written about this election in retrospect and HRC is going to come out a feminist icon.  I also think the DNC will owe her a huge debt of gratitude for proving that the Dems do stand with the voters.  Obama should get his tired butt out on the campaign trail to prove just that.  We are too close to the end for him to be strategically (and insultingly) phoning it in.  And they just have to count FL and MI before one of these candidates concede.  It's so important.  

    As for HRC being president, no matter what happens in June, I want her to hold on to her delegates.  Do not release them until the convention.  I want her to keep the meltdown option in play.  She can suspend her campaign and make a lovey dovey unity statement and negotiate for the VP slot if she wants it, but keep that chip in her back pocket.  Please!  We can still be saved for the November train wreck!

    Absolutely. Stay in there, stay viable--never know (5.00 / 4) (#63)
    by jawbone on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:47:02 PM EST
    when the glow might fade and SD's might reconsider.



    If Clinton wants Obama as (5.00 / 6) (#18)
    by hummingbirdv on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:52:17 PM EST
    her VP I'll follow her lead.  Otherwise I'd prefer Clinton/Edwards.

    Stay in the race?  Winners don't quit.  Quitters don't win.

    Go Hill Go!

    Buyers Remorse? (5.00 / 6) (#22)
    by OxyCon on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:57:16 PM EST
    Could this be why Dems want Hillary to stay in the race?

    I'm intrigued by this possibility (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by davnee on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:04:16 PM EST
    I think you could infer that as a possible explanation.  What is on the minds of the 40+% of Obama supporters who want to see the race continue?  Do they actually want HRC to come from behind?  Or is it just that they love democracy and fair play and perhaps also like HRC well enough that if she manages a comeback that'd be fine?  I'd love a poll that tested buyer's remorse.  I don't think you say anything definitive from these results, other than that the media is utterly out of step with the electorate right now.

    And all Democrats only too (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by BarnBabe on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:22:31 PM EST
    Might be so because no GOP on poll.

    Obama camp did put our word that if he declares (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by jawbone on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:49:38 PM EST
    it's over, and then she wins really big toward the end, it will be embarrassing to him. So, word went out that Obama and supporters were to say, sure, Hillary can stay in until the end.

    I don't know if that's why Obama voters answered that way, but it may have been accepted by some.


    That isn't what the poll showed at all (none / 0) (#30)
    by IndiDemGirl on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:11:31 PM EST
    And, speaking for this Obama supporter, I want HRC to stay in the race to the end. And it isn't buyer's remorse.

    It is good for the Dem party to have two great candidates bring their ideas to each state.

    It is great for the Dem party to have such enthusiastic voters and record turnout for these primaries.
    It is great for the Dem party to have had so many new voters due to voter registration.  

    I LOVED having my state Indiana actually matter. It was certainly exciting.    I wouldn't want to take that away from the remaining few states.  We're so close to the end, why not play it out till the end.  It is only a couple more weeks.  

    Also, I'm still hoping for the Unity Ticket and keeping the primary going through the last states may make the support for that even greater.


    It's the hope that Obama's (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:18:29 PM EST
    supporters feel that's the issue for you.

    He hasn't shown us in any way how he's going to achieve it.  

    If he were white, he'd get laughed off the podium.

    Hillary, on the other hand, is all about the ways she would go about implementing policies.

    You've got nothing.


    I have a Democratic party (none / 0) (#46)
    by IndiDemGirl on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:24:08 PM EST
    that I'm proud of.  I have 2 great candidates.  I have an energized Democratic party.  I have crazy turnout in those primaries.  

    There is no downside to having both candidates campaign through the last few states.

    Of course, I don't speak for all Obama supporters, just me.  


    I have a democratic party (5.00 / 8) (#48)
    by pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:29:31 PM EST
    that I'm not proud of.

    That will be a problem in November.

    What does Obama bring to the ticket besides "energy"?

    I look to the future of the country.  And I support the candidate whom I know has the experience to make it better.


    You are entitled to your (2.00 / 1) (#94)
    by IndiDemGirl on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:24:35 PM EST
    opinions, but it didn't seem like those polled shared your views.  

    Huh? (none / 0) (#116)
    by pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:44:07 PM EST
    What do you mean they don't share my views?

    My feelings about the party wasn'tt a polling question.

    I'm delighted they want Hillary to stay in the race.  That must provide some angst to the Obama supporters that have hurt his candidacy.

    You still haven't tole me why you think he's a better choice for POTUS.  Qualifications?


    excuse me, the numbers bailing on (none / 0) (#119)
    by hellothere on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:40:55 PM EST
    democratic party is called a crisis. now you continue thinking what you are. i have found very it convenient to have those with whom i disagree to have false assumptions.

    excuse me, the numbers bailing on the (none / 0) (#120)
    by hellothere on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:41:16 PM EST
    democratic party is called a crisis. now you continue thinking what you are. i have found very it convenient to have those with whom i disagree to have false assumptions.

    Blah Blah Blah (5.00 / 3) (#69)
    by Mrwirez on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:53:07 PM EST
    Lets talk policies....... Blah BLAH Hope and change. Blah my grandma hated blacks!! blah blah. Talk about fatigue?? This guy is one GIANT gas bubble and all you Obamabots are inhaling deeply.. I am sick of this guy already and he ain't won jack!

    Hope for What and Change to what.... Yeah I see the republicans lining up for that one. Have we not LEARNED ANYTHING? The democrats as a whole are pu$$ies...No wonder we never win the WH. Toughen up and pick the stronger candidate. Obama ONLY won a bunch of red states with activists at caucuses, with the exception of IL, and WI.......... THATS IT !! I would have been working if PA had been a caucus state and missed it. Who has time for that?

    Look Obama is a wuss and will get stomped. Can't you feel it? We NEED Hillary, she is gritty and actually knows WHAT TO DO.

    Do you prefer:
    "Michael Stanley Obama"
    "Barack Hussein Dukakis"

    Sorry for the rant..... I do feel better...  OK?


    This seems a bit off-topic (none / 0) (#104)
    by IndiDemGirl on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:29:59 PM EST
    to me.  This thread was to discuss the results of a new poll.  Jeralyn and BTD both picked the same poll to discuss.  I commented without rudeness agreeing with the need for HRC to continue and for the MSM to shut up about her getting out.  I also agree with BTD about the need for a Unity Ticket.

    Glad your rant made you feel better.


    Agreed.... (none / 0) (#109)
    by Mrwirez on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:33:53 PM EST
    I apologize ..... The pressure is getting to me.

    So what did it show? (none / 0) (#31)
    by pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:14:57 PM EST
    It showed many things that portend well (none / 0) (#47)
    by IndiDemGirl on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:25:50 PM EST
    for the Dem party.  

    Okay, (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:31:37 PM EST
    so you're a seer, too.

    What exactly does it portend?


    That there will be much rain ... (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by Robot Porter on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:50:38 PM EST
    and the crops will do well.



    Someone on this thread (none / 0) (#92)
    by IndiDemGirl on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:22:02 PM EST
    wondered if Obama supporters who wanted the primary to continue must be experiencing buyer's remorse.  

    I am a Obama supporter who would agree that HRC should stay in until the end of the primaries. It isn't buyer's remorse.  I gave my reasons for wanting this to continue.

    I think the poll "portends" that there is a great chance of a unified Democratic party this fall.  I think it also shows a desire for a unity ticket, which I find a good thing.  I guess you don't.

    I'm not the only one thinking that, as evidenced by BTDs post.

    As to your rudeness, that I can't explain.


    How U Can Help (5.00 / 9) (#23)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:58:52 PM EST
    I just read this same article on taylormarsh.com.  Although most of us are TL addicts, let's put our passions to work:  I challenge you to sign off for an hour from our favorite spot on the web and go to hillaryclinton.com and make calls tonight to WV.  I will be doing that right now and will come back at 8pm CST to let you all know what I hear from the voters of WV.


    I think it would be better (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:22:15 PM EST
    if she were at the top of the ticket.

    Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better.

    I agree, these polls are very lovely (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by madamab on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:20:17 PM EST
    but of course many of the Democrats want unity. After all, the race is pretty much a tie at this point.

    I am glad to see that the voters are not buying the media spin on the race, too. I didn't really think they would. It's a little too obvious that all the voters have not yet had their say.

    SOME people around here give the media far, far too much power. ;-)


    speaking of giving folks power (none / 0) (#96)
    by Kathy on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:25:16 PM EST
    since when did we start setting our watches by polls?

    since when did we start wearing watches? :-) (none / 0) (#128)
    by RalphB on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:59:34 PM EST
    Rise, Hillary Rise!

    I say Clinton as the nominee. Let Obama go back (5.00 / 7) (#41)
    by Angel on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:22:24 PM EST
    to working on voter enfranchisement.  I thought community activism was his forte.

    Listening to Stephanie Miller (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by Mrwirez on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:22:52 PM EST
    on Sirius. I just love the how they, almost in unison scream get out,get out,get out.... Our precious will be harmed by Hillary the monster, right before she stomps him again....in another swing state... some presumptuous nominee we have here.

     I lasted 34 seconds with Stephanie, she now ended up in the "dead radio host file", along with Ed Schultz....o well back to Howard Stern!! (Who SUPPORTS Hillary Clinton btw)

    I can't listen to those folks (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by bjorn on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:34:08 PM EST
    either.  I am ashamed of most talk radio people on the left.  Rachel Maddow is still okay, but most of them are not any better than radio lunnies on the right.

    They copied Rush etc. (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:43:46 PM EST
    they used the same techniques of polarization, I guess there is an audience for that, but it's not that big among the left.  That is why I think their style will fail.  

    Stephanie Miller Was Someone I Listened To (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:48:59 PM EST
    every morning on KTLK radio.  Then she tanked for obama and became insufferable.  I know she is a political comedian, but she is no longer funny.  And it pains me to say that because I really did like her.  Ed Schultz has always been abrasive and annoying and his lop-sided rants for obama became unbearable.  His inner republican came out too many times.  He was a republican before his wife took him toward the light of the democratic party.

    For Real? I Guess I Am Glad I Didn't See It. (none / 0) (#121)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:46:52 PM EST
    As for Stephanie...maybe I will listen to her again at some point.  I DO like Bill Press...does that count?  :)

    Liberal Talk Radio? (none / 0) (#126)
    by RalphB on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:50:27 PM EST
    The station in Austin which carried Air (Obama) America got bought out and it's now another Tejano music station.  Hate to say it but I was happy to see them gone  :-)

    Hillary does not need to be anyone's hood ornament (5.00 / 3) (#73)
    by Angel on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:56:10 PM EST
    President or bust for Hillary.

    Okay! I am back from my WV phone calls (5.00 / 5) (#81)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:05:59 PM EST
    Since a lot of you like statistics, here's what I did in my one hour of phone banking for HRC:

    41 calls:
    11 voicemails
    1 hang up
    10 disconnected #s
    4 wrong #s
    5 no answers
    7 YES to HRC (2 men/5 women)
    1 Undecided
    1 Not telling who voting for
    1 Obama.

    I spoke to two of the sweetest ladies:  One in Dunbar, WV and the other in Hernshaw, WV.  They were SO enthused about my phone call!  Two HRC supporters told me that they had rec'd multiple calls from the campaign.

    The undecided voter said that pols come to WV and then forgets all about them.  She told me that she appreciated the phone call.  She sounded like she might go HRC after I went over the scripted talking points (in my best Texas accent).

    The one Obama supporter I contacted was a little cold at first, but when I complimented BHO and his campaign, she warmed up to me.

    This was a great exercise for me. I KNOW WAY OFF TOPIC JM, but I just wanted to share with my fellow TL'ers.

    Time for a Whataburger!


    That is about the same experience with calling (none / 0) (#83)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:07:49 PM EST
    No one is ever home.  But those are the rations.  

    TX....Thanks To You And All The Others Who (none / 0) (#122)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:48:47 PM EST
    have done their part.  It's important and appreciated by us and the Clinton campaign, I am sure.

    Two concerns with the unity ticket scenario ... (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by dwmorris on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:12:40 PM EST
    • An Obama administration won't necessarily deliver

    • No one at age 60 can count on being vital and healthy at age 72 (although we can all hope for the best)

    Regarding the first point, my personal opinion is that Krugman's argument is correct -- bipartisanship is dead and those that profess to practice it are "useful idiots" (his words) for the Republicans to take advantage of. That's why I really like the toughness that Hillary has been displaying.

    Obama's progressive base may ultimately be bitterly disappointed and disillusioned by the "post-partisan" compromises he is willing to make if he can actually win the GE. If so, not the best foundation for a 16+ year dynasty.

    Just to let you know that my hubby and I (5.00 / 4) (#97)
    by athyrio on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:26:26 PM EST
    went and cast an absentee vote today for Hillary Clinton....sure felt good...In Montana they hand you both the Dem and Rep ballets, and you decide which one you wish to use....So Republicans all over the state can screw around with this election without ever declaring anything....In Montana you don't declare a party when you register....

    Here's the message (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:27:38 PM EST
    I got from the AA part.

    Majority of AA's want unity ticket (because they know Obama has won).  Only 42% of women want that ticket.

    Note that they didn't ask women who they might prefer at the top of the ticket, or how they'd vote based on who is at the top of the ticket.  

    It is a relief to know that Dems want Hillary to stay in the race.  I know that my bitterness now would be 100-fold if the plutocratic Kerry's of the world force her out.

    The media has been bashing Clinton especially badly recently, while making Obama look like a leader, so I'm shocked, shocked I tell you (not!) that people prefer Obama and think he's a stronger leader.

    One other thing, people are much more unconfortable with McCain's age than they are about a candidates race or sex, so the notion that Hillary -- a woman -- could run for prez at 69 years of age?  That's a fracking laugher.

    Anyway, none of this makes one iota of a difference to how I feel about the race or how I'll vote.  I don't make my choices based on passion, and I don't change my tune based on one little poll.

    poll (4.00 / 1) (#60)
    by marie3548 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:45:19 PM EST
    go vote
    go vote for Hillary

    Number schmumbers, is it a movement yet? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Ellie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:30:14 PM EST
    Remember, it's not a movement until the cream of the Creative Class declares it so.

    It might help the OBoiz deal with this better if they hear ahead of time that many of the voters polled were -- and still are -- white.

    Advantage Obama: Clinton staying in (none / 0) (#33)
    by 1jane on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:18:09 PM EST
    makes no difference in the outcome of who will be the next Democratic nominee for President. The ABC/Washington Post shows voters don't think much of the, "I'll never vote for Obama if Hillary loses," or "I'll never vote for Clinton if Obama loses." It's good news for Clinton supporters that staying in so far hasn't wounded her. Meanwhile Obama continues to get the delegates. The contest has been driven by the calendar and by the very different composition of voters in each state. The contest between Clinton and Obama has never been momentum driven. Clinton plays to pretty much the same demographics in each state as does Obama. The Clinton campaign is already in debt for 20 million, perhaps lack of money will drive her decision to stay in or leave the race. At any rate, she's run a contest that has been highly entertaining. It's great to read we will have a unified Democratic Party as we move to defeat McCain. Thanks for the post Jerylyn.

    I guess my question would (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by bjorn on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:22:04 PM EST
    be whose demographics will play better in the GE?

    I love how every post from an (5.00 / 6) (#44)
    by rooge04 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:23:22 PM EST
    Obama supporter even when "positive" manages to rip into HRC. It's like impossible for you guys not to throw a little CDS and nasty into every post.

    Odd part (none / 0) (#127)
    by RalphB on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:57:14 PM EST
    is I don't think they know it.  I'm beginning to believe this crap is them trying to "unite", but they are clueless.

    Yes, but (5.00 / 4) (#45)
    by pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:23:35 PM EST
    Clinton plays to pretty much the same demographics in each state as does Obama.

    deadly for Obama.


    I love (5.00 / 0) (#106)
    by Cate on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:31:02 PM EST
    the way these Obama supporters disappear once they are challenged to come up with particulars. In the final analysis: Losers.

    Changed my mind: go unity ticket (none / 0) (#54)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:42:12 PM EST
    Obama will be done in 8 years, Hillary we will have for 16, VP and then pres, she is 60 now, we get her till she is 76, wow, what a run.  

    Her mom is going great guns.  She will make sure we get healthcare and she will cleanup the government.  

    Sorry. (5.00 / 5) (#62)
    by pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:46:10 PM EST
    Hillary now.

    two options! (5.00 / 5) (#68)
    by hellothere on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:52:47 PM EST
    1. obama loses this fall. end of discussion!
    2. obama has one four year term. end of discussion

    sorry but i can't forsee a wonderful 4 years with obama based on what i have seen so for. there is nothing to build any positive feelings.

    i wish i felt differently and i wish the history with the primaries aren't what they are.


    Stellaaa (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by samanthasmom on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:58:02 PM EST
    Take two aspirin and call us in the morning.

    Are you a doctor, Or do you just play on on TL? (5.00 / 0) (#82)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:06:16 PM EST
    I'm gonna examine your head (5.00 / 3) (#93)
    by Kathy on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:24:07 PM EST
    Do you honestly think Obama is going to humble himself enough to ask Hillary Clinton to be his VP?  

    And, in other news, I know that a lot of folks here are totally convinced Obama is the nominee and we're just crazy for saying Clinton still has a chance, but she DOES still have a chance, so why try to shut us down?  It's not mathematically impossible, and there are a lot of things that can happen between now and then.  All of us who are phone banking for hours a day and sending in money would appreciate you not stomping on our heads.  Thanks.


    Ditto what Kathy said....enough of this (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by athyrio on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:28:45 PM EST
    Obama already won stuff....It ain't over till the fat lady sings and I ain't sung yet...:-)

    you're breaking my heart Stellaaa! (none / 0) (#103)
    by angie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:29:44 PM EST
    Come back to the light!!

    DID NOT SAY HE WON!! (none / 0) (#108)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:33:30 PM EST
    But the prospect of no Hillary in power of any kind is terrifying.  I am calling, I am giving money, I have done it all.  But, I will have to go into catatonia with the prospect of either Obama or McCain.  Trying to find some glimmer of optimism and pragmatism.  

    no offense (none / 0) (#76)
    by CanadianDem on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:59:48 PM EST
    but it seems the theme you've been pushing of Clinton as a vic currently really doesn't represent reality....everyone is in favour of her finishing the race.

    Offense taken (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by angie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:26:29 PM EST
    Clinton is many things but a "victim" is not one of them, and no one her is saying she is a victim (expect you). A person can be beat up, face great odds, be treated unfairly, even lose  but it is how they handle the situation that demonstrates whether they are a victim or a champ -- and make no mistake, Clinton is a champ. As to the "everyone is in favor of her finishing the race" -- yeah, well, sorry if I'm not dancing a jig, because it was just yesterday that everyone in the msm & the Obama camp were screaming for her to drop out -- so, I don't know what to expect tomorrow.

    HRC should continue in the race but (none / 0) (#117)
    by Politalkix on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:28:21 PM EST
    an Obama-Clinton ticket is a non-starter. It will not really help Obama that much in the GE, it will also weigh around his neck like an albatross after he becomes Pres. This will not be good for the Democrats or the country. C'mon Folks, the 90s are over. Those of you who cherish the memories, good for you! However time does not stand still, the moment has come now to move on. Obama has won the primaries fairly and squarely. HRC will get plenty of opportunity to shine in the Senate if she is as good as some of you think. However Obama's VP should be someone that he is totally comfortable with. Besides, the Democrats have an incredible talent pool to tap into(eg: Tim Kaine, Kathleen Sebelius, Barbara Boxer, Sam Nunn, Ted Strickland, Wes Clark, Brian Schweitzer, etc)this year, so why not utilize the available talent!

    If obama wins he better pick the best of the (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:56:07 PM EST
    talent dems have to offer (not Hillary because he doesn't deserve her), as they will be very busy covering obama's sorry butt due to his extreme lack of experience.

    Replying to PssttCmere08 (1.00 / 1) (#125)
    by Politalkix on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:13:38 PM EST
    Obama has the right package of experience, inspirational skills and political talents to be a very successful President.His experience is nothing less than that of HRC. Besides, if experience was the only factor that mattered, most people would have chosen Dodd and Biden over HRC. They did not.

    Can you say (none / 0) (#129)
    by RalphB on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:13:24 PM EST
    President McCain?  You better practice cause we're all gonna get the chance when he whips Obama's sorry butt in November.

    To BTD (none / 0) (#130)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:26:19 PM EST
    Since this is the only thread I can find open.  You thought my comment about Hillary rewriting the vice presidency was absurd, if it is absurd, they why would you think Hillary should want it and why should we her supporters, think that she should take it.  Maybe your offer for a joint ticket is for the sake of the party only and for Obama.  Then, I would have to say, I disagree.  Hillary should only take the VP, if she can change the role and if she hast power.  I think she is clever and powerful enough to do it.  In any other way, I think it would be insulting.  

    Obama Would Probably Restrict Her (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by MO Blue on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:41:25 PM EST
    to attending tea parties.  Do you really think that the Obama you have seen for the last year would really allow Hillary to do anything (like actually accomplish something) that might made people wonder if "He Was The One?"

    Speaking for myself only, I (none / 0) (#131)
    by oculus on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:30:28 PM EST
    am imagining BTD sees the writing on the wall:  Obama as nominee, but Clinton as more electable.  So perhaps he'd like Clinton to lend her electability to help the fellow he's been tepidly supporting for so many months now.  

    Huh... I retract my unity call (none / 0) (#132)
    by Stellaaa on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:38:50 PM EST
    let him do it on his own.  Now that I think about BTD's comment
    A VP only has the amount of power a President grant the VP. there is no power a V can grab that a President does not allow him to grab.
    Obama COULD sit Hillary in a corner if that is what he wants to do.

    Heck, that is what JFK did to LBJ.

    Therefor BTD since your offer is not genuine, I withdraw my change of mind.  No unity.  


    Lots of sitting Senators would (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by oculus on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:52:52 PM EST
    love to be VP for someone, anyone:



    Good One (none / 0) (#138)
    by squeaky on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:35:23 AM EST
    Obama (none / 0) (#139)
    by deechannel on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:19:02 AM EST
    Please know...that all of us out here...are not buying the "Obama Kool Aid."  He is crouched within a giant Trojan Horse that the looney left of the Demo Party is slowly and quietly wheeling toward the gates of the White House.  We are all not taken in by this Changeling's slick rhetoric, his constant explanations (is it 4 or 5 different ones now on Rev. Wright, his 60's terrorists buddies and his close association with Tony Rezko?) nor did we miss his snobbish snipping at the middle class who cling to their guns and God when all else fails them. Nor did we miss his wife's dismay at "mean America" his aversion to the flag or his off-guard remarks about his "typical white woman" grandmother.  Any journalist that gives this "ticking time bomb" a pass to the White House should be held accountable (at some future date) for this nation's total demise.