home

Obama Supporting PA Rep Vows Concerted Opposition To Unity Ticket

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:41:55 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg This!! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

This is an amazing statement from Obama supporting Pennsylvania State Represenative Mark Cohen. After arguing the Presidential nominee should not be pressured to accept a Vice Presidential candidate not of his or her choosing, he vows to, get this, pressure the likely Democratic nominee Barack Obama to NOT choose Hillary Clinton:

I do not think the "Vote Both" gambit will work. But it certainly bears watching, analysis, and in the judgment of many including myself, concerted opposition.

Concerted opposition to what? Barack Obama will choose his nominee. Does Rep. Cohen plan to oppose such a decision by Obama? What is wrong with some Obama supporters? Are they intent on losing in November by keeping the Democratic Party divided? I know next to nothing about this PA State Rep, but what I see here indicates he is not very bright. I wonder what the Obama camp thinks of his actions and statements. Someone should ask them.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

Comments closed

< Shameful Medical Treatment of Immigrant Detainees | Sunday Night Math Homework: Electoral Votes >

  • Premium Ads

  • Blog Ads

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

    donate to TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Obama Supporting PA Rep Vows Concerted Opposition To Unity Ticket | 205 comments (205 topical)
    Cohen wrote at Dailykos after the Iowa loss that (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by tigercourse on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:45:02 PM EST
    Clinton should drop out. Only one state and he thought she should quit.

    What an idiot (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:46:43 PM EST
    Let's hope State Rep is as far as he goes. We have enough idiots in the higher echelons of our Party.

    I wonder what Rendell thinks of him.

    [ Parent ]

    It seems obvious (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Steve M on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:47:21 PM EST
    that he sees DKos as his ticket to higher office.

    [ Parent ]
    well, didn't it work for Obama? (none / 0) (#113)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:49:11 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#152)
    by Steve M on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:00:20 PM EST
    the love Daily Kos bears for Obama is unrequited.

    [ Parent ]
    Don't make me laugh like that... (none / 0) (#162)
    by kredwyn on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:03:53 PM EST
    it hurts ::pout::

    [ Parent ]
    Kind of puts the kabosh (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by angie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:46:11 PM EST
    on your theory that Rham was speaking at the behest of Obama, doesn't it? These people obviously think they can win without the Hillary supporters OR that the conditions are so bad right now that a one-eyed cat could win against McCain and, therefore, we will have no choice but to be good little girls and fall in line.

    Not really (none / 0) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:47:15 PM EST
    This guy is posting diaries at DailyKos. He sounds like a nobody to me.

    [ Parent ]
    True, but (none / 0) (#8)
    by angie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:52:36 PM EST
    why such different messages from the Obama camp if that is the case? I think my personal theory is more likely -- Rahm is smarter then the Obama camp and knows what needs to be done to win in the fall and bad mouthing/dismissing Hillary (and by extension her supporters) isn't the ticket.

    [ Parent ]
    Rahm is trying to save the party. (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:04:21 PM EST
    He has my ear.  Let's see how this plays out.  If he takes a hard line against this kind of crap, it'll go a long way toward helping the cause.

    Of course, do I have to say that Obama decrying this sort of crap would go even farther?

    This is why we have to keep supporting Clinton.  I phone banked today, I'll phone bank tomorrow and Tues, and on until this is over.  It's not too late...Rise, Hillary, Rise!

    [ Parent ]

    Bless KUSA!!! (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by RalphB on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:08:36 PM EST
    Save me from voting for McCain.


    [ Parent ]
    Remind me again on those (none / 0) (#40)
    by oculus on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:15:41 PM EST
    predictions for IN and NC though.

    [ Parent ]
    I nailed NC (none / 0) (#48)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:22:02 PM EST
    Not so good on IN.

    KUSA, I do not know.

    [ Parent ]

    Ahem (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:30:04 PM EST
    I believe he was trying to humiliate KUSA in the grand, "if you cut me, why not cut me some more" tradition.

    Taking into account past predictions that have been not so...er...wrongly right...

    WVA:  Obama by 16
    KY: Obama by 22
    OR: Obama by 60
    MT: Obama by 12
    PR: Obama by 90

    [ Parent ]

    Now you are over-compensating. (none / 0) (#65)
    by oculus on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:34:28 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    duh. (none / 0) (#67)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:35:05 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Heh, I have a few months of (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by nycstray on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:22:34 PM EST
    rollover credits to use. I'll be using them tomorrow and Tuesday. I think I have about $250 or more, lol!~ And then I'll move on to OR and KY. I'm proud to say some of our rural farmers have taken to the road to help her out also, which I think is fantastic.

    Obama has been silent FAR too long. It ain't over until the Lady in the pant suits says so.  

    [ Parent ]

    What responses are you getting to (none / 0) (#68)
    by oculus on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:35:41 PM EST
    your phone calls?

    [ Parent ]
    calls have been informative (5.00 / 4) (#97)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:45:23 PM EST
    and I'll speak just from my own experience and not for KUSA.  The women are fired up, which hasn't been surprising.  The men are fired up in a different way, though.  When I explain to them that Clinton still has a chance, that it's tight but certainly not over, they kind of mumble a bit, then say, "that's not fair to call for her to drop out, then."

    And I'm not saying that every call has been like this by any stretch, but I'm a little chattier than I am supposed to be (I go off script!) and, speaking frankly, these are my people.  I come from good redneck stock.  I've got close kin living in trailers and proud of it.  They tend to be a progressive lot and they think your business is your own and they stay out of it.  There is a certain amount of pride these people have, and they don't like to feel they have been lied to--or denigrated.

    And there's something else about living that close to the line, where you hunt because you need food, and you have a garden because you can't afford to buy vegetables to feed your kids: you admire a fighter.  You admire someone who won't quit no matter how the odds are stacked against you.  I have to admit, it's been very cathartic making these calls.

    nycstray, have you had this happen, or am I an anomaly?

    [ Parent ]

    So, then, you don't use this (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by oculus on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:48:27 PM EST
    information in your polling results?  

    P.S.  I heard a man who started farming say his family lives on less than $20,000 a year but grows its own food, has solar energy, and he intends to do this until he dies.  

    [ Parent ]

    oh, heck no (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:55:41 PM EST
    KUSA never used data to reach its conclusions.  In retrospect, that might have been unwise, but who am I to questions KUSA's methods?  They have been right on every single election, according to their website.

    Have you been making calls, too?  It really puts you in touch with what matters, doesn't it?  These people are in such dire need of good government.  One woman I spoke with sounded SO TIRED.  She was home to feed her kids, then had to go to her second job.  She works 7 days a week, is raising three kids on her own, and is barely making ends meet.

    I've been wondering (off topic, it seems) what will Brazile's new dem party stand for?  What issues will they have on their platform?  What will they place value on?  To go on topic, what does this Cohen fella think is going to happen at the end of all of this?

    [ Parent ]

    Hello? I've been making calls too! (5.00 / 4) (#192)
    by angie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:21:15 PM EST
    What, you don't want my take? Ok since you didn't ask for it, here it is: I have the same impression as you -- so many women have told me emphatically "I'm voting for her, all my family is voting for her and all my co-workers are voting for her." The men have been mostly stopping me after "I'm a volunteer with the Hillary Clinton campaign" by saying "Don't worry, I'm voting for her." I laugh and tell them "well, you just made my job easier!" I have gotten some undecideds and a very few "refuse to answer" (i.e., "thanks not interested" like you do to solicitors) and one Republican for McCain, but not one Obama supporter. Dare I hope this is good? I don't tend to chat up people  -- I don't exactly stay "on script" but I try to make the call short and pleasant.  

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks for all you are doing!! (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by bjorn on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:22:51 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Wouldn't some research bew in order (none / 0) (#35)
    by Ben Masel on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:12:46 PM EST
    before hyou dismiss him as "not very bright?"


    Obama still gets my vote, but my bumper belongs to Privacy '08
    [ Parent ]
    who said he wasn't "very bright"? (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by angie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:19:18 PM EST
    if you're going to accuse me of saying something, cite something I actually said. That said, I do not need to do any research to know that dissing Clinton (and by extension her supporters) isn't the wisest tack to take to win her supporters over.

    [ Parent ]
    I said it (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:21:21 PM EST
    And I stand by it.

    [ Parent ]
    sorry, I thought the poster (none / 0) (#51)
    by angie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:23:42 PM EST
    was responding to me.

    [ Parent ]
    I did research (none / 0) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:21:02 PM EST
    I read his idiotic diary. are there some flashed of brilliance you want to point me to Masel? I saw his resume. He did not room with you and Feingold.

    [ Parent ]
    heh (none / 0) (#53)
    by andgarden on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:24:37 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I don't take much from Rep. Cohen's linked post (none / 0) (#103)
    by Ben Masel on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:47:41 PM EST
    but much of his previous material's been good.


    Obama still gets my vote, but my bumper belongs to Privacy '08
    [ Parent ]
    Then he is just an idiot about Obama? (none / 0) (#190)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:20:09 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Everybody's an idiot as regards this nomination, (none / 0) (#196)
    by Ben Masel on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:26:37 PM EST
    yours truly included. Possible exceptions, Jimmy Carter.


    Obama still gets my vote, but my bumper belongs to Privacy '08
    [ Parent ]
    Did you mean this to be funny? (none / 0) (#100)
    by hitchhiker on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:47:14 PM EST
    This guy is posting diaries at DailyKos. He sounds like a nobody to me

    Because it was. :)

    [ Parent ]

    Posting on Daily Kos. (none / 0) (#120)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:51:52 PM EST
    It's the new status symbol ;-).

    [ Parent ]
    Damn... (none / 0) (#174)
    by kredwyn on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:08:05 PM EST
    no one told me that. Heck I'd been posting there for years and had no clue that it was some sort of status symbol.


    [ Parent ]
    Rahm is going to be really busy (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by oculus on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:47:58 PM EST
    putting out fires.  

    I think he's just realized (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:02:15 PM EST
    that they're not campfires, but raging forest fires. I cannot believe someone as politically savvy, as street smart, as Rahm, did not see this coming.

    Obviously, for an Obama delegate to make a statement like this, there is much talk of a unity ticket behind closed doors.  Elsewise, why are we seeing it all over the place?

    What a freakin' mess this is.  I have never felt so disillusioned in my life.

    [ Parent ]

    I look (5.00 / 4) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:11:07 PM EST
    at it this way:
    Obama is going to lose the general election. Let's all just face that fact right now. He's been claiming to be the nominee for 2 months now and has done nothing but continually insult working class voters, women and hispanics. I'm sure the majority of these people have simply had it and the polls are showing larger and larger percentages that will not vote for Obama in Nov.

    The upside of all this is the fact that we can kick out all these people who continually bring us these loser candidates. Get rid of Pelosi, Kennedy etc. Time for new blood. Time to get back to our Harry Truman roots. Time to be for the working class again instead of these arugula eating whiners. End of Rant.

    [ Parent ]

    You forgot Asians. (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:14:49 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Thanks (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:16:23 PM EST
    I was struggling to try to remember that other demographic.

    Wow, with those demographics what % will he get in GA if he's the nominee? I'd say about 39% of the vote.

    [ Parent ]

    Wonder what's happened with fundraising (none / 0) (#206)
    by daria g on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:50:03 PM EST
    He has to notice that.  I keep getting messages from the DCCC asking again for $$, and finally emailed through their web contact form, expressing my opinion that Sen. Obama was being pushed by Dems in Congress as the nominee, and I did not trust that Sen. Obama would stand up for core Democratic values particularly on universal health care, and therefore could not contribute.

    [ Parent ]
    These stories keep popping up. (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by lilburro on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:56:23 PM EST
    They make me angry each time.  How do they think they're going to unify the party if Clinton isn't included?  Having Clinton as VP will smooth over some of the controversies of this campaign and allow Obama to tap into the Dem legacy if need be.  Kicking out Clinton publicly is not going to make it easy for Obama to campaign for the GE.  Good luck drawing the crowds Bill does in small towns, or getting the women who come out for Clinton to come out for you.  I think having Clinton as VP puts a sizeable dent in the number of people who claim they won't vote for Obama, but they will vote for Clinton, for Pres.

    The Clintons are GREAT campaigners.  Who else in the party, aside from Obama, is half as good?  

    Plus, I think image-wise, if Obama brings Clinton onto the ticket, it will be seen as an invitation to some of her supporters who thus far have been characterized as low brow racists.  We need everyone involved in this party.  Obama says he can work with the other side; he now has to work with the other side of the party.  

    Argh!  Luckily, I'm sure a PA state rep has no influence in Obamaworld.  I doubt he even cares about half his endorsers.    

    Clinton doesn't need to be on the ticket (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by angie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:03:57 PM EST
    in fact, I think she would be smarter not to be Obama's VP as I think she would be more effective in the Senate (and I think it would be demeaning to her) -- all I'm asking for is that they don't keep ripping her apart like they are doing and give her the respect she deserves to "allow" her to turn down the VP spot in favor of "going back" to the Senate.
    But all of this is neither here nor there -- I still fully expect that come August, she will be the nominee.  

    [ Parent ]
    Not only are they good campaigners (none / 0) (#19)
    by rafaelh on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:02:11 PM EST
    But having the Clintons on his side would allow Obama to campaign in the west and northwest and have Hillary and Bill working in the south, making the republicans play defense everywhere and stretching their resources. Obama would activate young voters and Hillary would activate women. As Bill said, they really could be unstoppable. I don't care if he doesn't get along with them, this election is too important!  

    [ Parent ]
    If they have no role in Obama's GE campaign (none / 0) (#25)
    by lilburro on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:04:38 PM EST
    then that will mean the ostracization of a Democratic president.  I find that intolerable.

    [ Parent ]
    Worse (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by rafaelh on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:14:36 PM EST
    It would be incredibly stupid, blind, just plain needless and dumb.

    [ Parent ]
    I think... (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by p lukasiak on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:28:46 PM EST
    I think that the smartest use for the Clintons would be for them to concentrate on House, Senate, and (especially) gubenatorial races.  The importance of winning as many governorships as possible this year cannot be overstated -- they will be in office when congressional reapportionment happens after the 2010 census, and will have veto power over plans in their states.

    Either that, or Hillary should run for president as the head of a party called the "Democratic Party -- Not Insane Division"

    [ Parent ]

    hurtful too really (none / 0) (#87)
    by DFLer on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:42:35 PM EST
    Is the Obama camp calling for a completion of the coup and for kicking the Clintons and their contingents completely out of the confluence?

    [ Parent ]
    So that after they can pull a Gore (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:44:56 PM EST
    and complain that the Clintons did not work hard for them, when Gore explicitly did not want them to work for him.  

    [ Parent ]
    A caveat (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by rafaelh on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:23:13 PM EST
    I'm not too crazy about some people in the Clinton contingent. I don't mean supporters, I mean her team. And it's not just Mark Penn, it's all the leaks and infighting among her inner circle, always fighting to be the ones closest to power. It's the same today as it was while Bill was in the White House. Obama's campaign is more disciplined and I like that.

    But the Obama campaign should remember that it's not just about her, but about the millions of Democratic voters who voted for her. We've never had a primary this close, those who voted for her should be respected.

    Hmm, I've read that Edwards and his wife are divided over who to support. Maybe an interesting balance could be reached if he offered Obama his delegates on the condition of picking Hillary as VP. I also don't think it would be a bad idea if Hillary's delegates demand the VP post as a plan B since she cannot reach him in delegates now.

    [ Parent ]

    Let's keep the people out of politics (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by waldenpond on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:57:24 PM EST
    Oh those pesky voters.... all that positive energy directed at putting two people they are enthused about on the same ticket (VoteBoth)... just think, a little something for everyone... but no the politicians get upset any time the little people think it's their perogative to say who is elected to office in this country.  Better damp down on that or the next thing you know the people will be thinking they have a right to set policy in this country.

    God! (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by rafaelh on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:58:21 PM EST
    You know, I had heard that thing before about Democrats always managing to screw things up but I really cannot believe how hard we are trying to make things easier for McCain. I just read that post in Dkos and could not believe it.

    The only thing that would save the Republican party is if we stay divided. It seems we are ready to oblige.

    Class (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:59:43 PM EST
    Someone is testing the waters, or it's like I thought, Obama is so weak, he got all these guys to support him, promised lots and now they are all free agents.  He could not manage his preachers, watch him manage a bunch of Dem Hooligans.  I was gonna say thugs, but then realized that there would be outrage.  

    hey, I've already been called (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:11:14 PM EST
    a hypocrite once today.   Let's say it: they are thugs.  They keep trying to bully Clinton out of this thing, and the longer she stays in, the more this kind of trash talk ratchets up.  NO ONE has called them on it (except a bunch of ladies, not "real" people) and so they keep on doing it.  (I invoked the Stanford Prison Experiment earlier and it seems even more appropriate now)

    Iif Obama really thinks he's got this wrapped up, what political capital would it expend to tell people to stop this crap?  Can you imagine what people like you and me, Stellaaa, would say if he took a stand on this?  Told Kennedy and Cohen, et al, to keep things civil?  Why, we wouldn't have much to say, would we, because we'd find no fault in the act.  We might even see Obama a tad differently if he did.

    The answer is that, without the crap, without the character assassinations, etc, he loses even more.  He only started winning when he went after her carotid.  If he really thought he had this thing wrapped up, he would be defending her.

    [ Parent ]

    Get a look at the Foreign Policy expert (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:21:40 PM EST
    How do you know if Barack Obama is unhappy with what you're saying-- or not saying? At meetings of his closest advisers, he likes to lean back, put his feet on the table and close his eyes.
    Wolfe Article with picture

    Well, lets see, his experience was in a Moslem country, look at his feet on the desk,  that is a major insult and one of the most basic vulgarities.  Yep, the super duper world sensitive Kerry pick, basically gives the finger to the Moslem world.  And Wolfe thinks it's cool.  Yeh..oh yeh.  

    [ Parent ]

    PS, he would have learned (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:23:29 PM EST
    that as a child if he grew up in a Moslem country.  I know he was not in Moslem country, but speaking with reporters, he the presumptive president, cannot have images like that floating.

    [ Parent ]
    I knew that (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:32:36 PM EST
    from watching Kathy Griffin.

    As John Kerry said, Obama will send a message to the Muslim world!

    [ Parent ]

    Well he just did (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:36:01 PM EST
    yikes, now he will have to kiss and hold hands with the Saudi Princes.  

    [ Parent ]
    Better for Obama if (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by oculus on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:27:52 PM EST
    Clinton keeps on keepin' on:

    LA TIMES


    [ Parent ]

    Hahaha! (none / 0) (#66)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:34:49 PM EST
    "The Democratic race now moves to West Virginia," Jay Leno noted the other night. "Today, Hillary Clinton claimed she always wanted to be a coal miner. But those dreams were dashed when she was forced to attend Wellesley and Yale."

    Someone said that here already--it would be humiliating for Obama to lose to someone not even on the ticket.

    On the other hand, Cheney lost to a dead man and he got to be VP...

    [ Parent ]

    Well, didn't they want her to lose (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by nycstray on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:45:05 PM EST
    to uncommitted in MI? She should have suspended and let Karma have at it  ;)

    [ Parent ]
    Nope (none / 0) (#71)
    by andgarden on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:36:23 PM EST
    but John Ashcroft did, and he got to be Attorney General.

    [ Parent ]
    We In MO Are D@mn Proud That We (5.00 / 3) (#165)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:05:07 PM EST
    the good sense to elected a dead man instead of Ashcroft. Of course, we hoped he would just fade away and not become Attorney General.

    [ Parent ]
    Girls keep some bags packed (none / 0) (#74)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:37:17 PM EST
    cause they are going to send us to re-education camp if he wins.  

    [ Parent ]
    Ha. We will all be renditioned to an (none / 0) (#117)
    by oculus on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:50:21 PM EST
    as yet undisclosed location not on U.S. soil.  I vote for Crete; haven't been there yet.

    [ Parent ]
    Love Crete... (none / 0) (#138)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:56:08 PM EST
    and you get tskoudia, (greek grappa with every meal)

    [ Parent ]
    Lordy, just makes Obama look weak, this goof is (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Salt on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:02:40 PM EST
    going to demand...his wife wont let him choose, Kennedy no way the B gets on the ticket, the agenda behind these behavior escapes me if these are supporters.

    that's why the establishment ran him (none / 0) (#28)
    by Josey on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:07:12 PM EST
    to "beat the B---h!" - Obama's theme song.


    [ Parent ]
    BTD (5.00 / 5) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:04:01 PM EST
    forget about Obama having any chance in the general election.

    It's over. Done. Finito. They just can't quit at this point.

    The creative class and AA's can get their 40-45% of the vote totals in Nov. and be happy.

    I think your projection overstates his vote share. (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Palomino on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:21:04 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Obama seems to think he can win (none / 0) (#31)
    by Josey on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:10:52 PM EST
    by registering a zillion voters.


    [ Parent ]
    yeah (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:12:53 PM EST
    but he's not counting the zillion already registered that aren't going to vote for him.

    [ Parent ]
    I agree with the dumba-s rep (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by RalphB on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:06:20 PM EST
    that Hillary should not be VP on the ticket, though for completely opposite reasons.  In fact, in view of the campaign ran against her, I hope she does not even campaign for him.  She and Bill should sit this out and laugh when he loses.

    Of course, I'm an independent and could care less if the democrats win or not.  Obama will never be my choice for president.

    Too many statements from Dems supporting (5.00 / 5) (#27)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:07:11 PM EST
    Obama have been made rejecting the idea of Hillary as VP for me not to believe that this has Obama's approval. Obama could have stopped this if he wanted to do so.

    Have you not heard? (5.00 / 6) (#29)
    by GMN on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:08:31 PM EST
    The Obama supporters are building a new Dem party.  We older white folk are no longer needed.

    Every (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by sas on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:10:59 PM EST
    time I think the Obama campaign c, Obama himself, or one of his supporters can't be dumber - they manage to fool me.

    Sexism, pure and simple.  These guys have such knee jerk reactions to thinking of a woman in power, they lose all reason.

    What else could it be?

    What if Hillary isn't interested either? (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by s5 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:24:37 PM EST
    I came across this bit today:

    Also on "Fox News Sunday," Clinton's top strategist, Howard Wolfson, said that "We think Sen. Clinton is going to be the nominee," and that he has "seen no evidence of her interest" in the No. 2 slot.

    If true, then the idea of a unity ticket is dead on arrival, an idea that no one wants, except for a subset of supporters.

    Assuming Obama is the nominee, I've always felt that Clinton would be far more effective as Senate majority leader than as VP. She'd certainly be a thousand times better than Reid.

    So much better if she says it (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:26:57 PM EST
    Than if Obama supporters START A MOVEMENT to stop it.

    I hope you can see that.

    [ Parent ]

    She should do what? (5.00 / 4) (#160)
    by feet on earth on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:02:36 PM EST
    She has all responsibilities and he none?

    She is now the one that has to stop the insurgency on an  Obama's movement?  This is squarely in Obama's corner.

    She has got a race to run, and then she does whatever she does.

    She has earned the right to chose.  

    [ Parent ]

    Whether she says it or not (none / 0) (#98)
    by s5 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:46:06 PM EST
    People are still going to talk about it. You call that a movement; I call it supporters on either side independently coming to their own conclusions. Either way, a unity ticket is almost certainly a non-starter.

    Maybe once we have a nominee, it will be more obvious what we'll need to do to reunite the party. If people speculate on the unity ticket idea and get their heart set on it as the only way to unite the party, there will be lots of disappointment if it doesn't pan out.

    And while I think it's good to float the idea as a possibility, other ideas for unity should be actively explored as well, especially as it becomes clear than neither Hillary nor Obama are interested in sharing a ticket. What if the CW becomes "the only way to reunite the party is through a unity ticket", but then both candidates decide that they don't want it? The result is that the attempt at unity would be seen as a failure, with months of "dems in disarray" headlines all over again.

    [ Parent ]

    Are you under the impression (none / 0) (#163)
    by oculus on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:04:42 PM EST
    anyone, except maybe BTD, "has their heart set on" the idea of a joint ticket?

    [ Parent ]
    seems like (none / 0) (#132)
    by DFLer on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:54:52 PM EST
    she's damned if she does, damned if she doesn't


    [ Parent ]
    Exactly (none / 0) (#173)
    by MichaelGale on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:07:36 PM EST
    This tale is turning into the next crisis for the anxiety addicted Obama flowerer.

    She should cut it off right away and stop the radical reaction.

     

    [ Parent ]

    Hon? (none / 0) (#198)
    by kredwyn on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:27:23 PM EST
    They already started the movement...

    And part of me thinks that they did in order to protect him from having to ask...and then get rejected.

    [ Parent ]

    I just saw Carl Bernstein blabbing about ... (none / 0) (#205)
    by Ellie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:42:50 PM EST
    ... how Obama didn't want Clinton as VP because it would take people back [to one of the worst times ever].

    But "she'll do anything and say anything" to be on a ticket and knowing her, she might wear Obama down and he'll HAVE to put her on it.

    (My sister sent the clip but I didn't see the chiron.)

    [ Parent ]

    Neither clinton nor Obama (3.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Ben Masel on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:59:42 PM EST
    have demonstrated an ability, nor inclination, to lead in the Senate.


    Obama still gets my vote, but my bumper belongs to Privacy '08
    [ Parent ]
    In Illinois there is talk that (none / 0) (#95)
    by gabbyone on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:45:09 PM EST
    Senator Durbin is hoping to be the next Senate
    Majority Leader.  I have also heard that it is kind of the kiss of death to run for President and
    come back to the Senate and expect a higher position.

    [ Parent ]
    He's the second most powerful Dem in (none / 0) (#111)
    by tigercourse on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:48:43 PM EST
    the Senate. It's fairly likely tha he'll be the next Majority leader. I've never thought that Clinton had even a small chance of getting that post.

    [ Parent ]
    If he does kiss lending reform goodbye (none / 0) (#129)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:53:56 PM EST
    the guy is on the take with the lenders.  Talks a big game about housing but gives it all to the banks.  No reforms.  nada.  

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah (none / 0) (#133)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:54:54 PM EST
    Clinton just barely loses (if she loses) the nomination for President of the United States, but she has not a shred of a chance of making Senate majority leader.

    Hmmm.

    [ Parent ]

    You're forgetting the Clinton Rulz (none / 0) (#182)
    by Palomino on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:16:06 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Are Obama's supporters (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by Nadai on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:25:20 PM EST
    trying to convince Clinton's supporters not to vote for him?  I keep wondering if they're holding a contest for the most insulting slam at her.  Maybe the winner gets an iPod.

    No, they just don't want to be beholden to them (none / 0) (#105)
    by Salt on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:47:51 PM EST
    the flick recall, but you can come to Obama he just not going to come to you.

    [ Parent ]
    I would say (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Nadai on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:58:11 PM EST
    that I wish them good luck with that, but the truth is I don't wish them good luck at all.

    [ Parent ]
    I have (5.00 / 5) (#58)
    by sas on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:27:12 PM EST
    never seen anything like this stuff.

    There is something very fishy going on here in the Democratic party.  Beyond obvious reasons, there is a faction that really wants the Clintons out, and they are trying to hijack this nomination process by whatever means necessary.

    Is it because Bill was impeached? Maybe they can't have a competant woman in power who will actually demand some accountability from them?  What monied interests are behind this?

    what do you all think?

    I'm new at all this (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by befuddled on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:40:28 PM EST
    I wandered into the political blogosphere while looking for elements to put into a conspiracy theory for a computer RPG, no joke. So what better than an election year and that Cliff Notes Rack of conspiracy theories, YouTube. Well. I wish I had paid more attention in the past, I have learned so much from posters here; but I'll just say it seems very strange to me too. :) Too much YouTube! Seriously, there are a lot of inexplicable maneuverings.

    [ Parent ]
    Unless you are checking out... (none / 0) (#203)
    by kredwyn on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:32:18 PM EST
    old Muppet Show clips, West Wing clips, random Boston Legal clips, or Nora the piano playing cat...oh...and the skateboarding physics prof and and The Puppy Song (my favorite), best to dodge the YouTube phenom.

    The political wankery going on over there is beyond weird.

    [ Parent ]

    Very simple. (5.00 / 3) (#115)
    by oldpro on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:49:39 PM EST
    Class war.  How dare that wrong-side-of-the-tracks trailer-trash Bill Clinton become president when Ted Kennedy, Kerry, Daschle etc. etc. couldn't get to the top...and they ARE the top! (Socially...the Washington elite).  But LOSERS.

    Then, Bill Clinton's WIFE is likely to win the presidency against all those insider 'guys'...only way to beat her is find a candidate who can tag them with racism and split off the black vote.

    Whaddya know...Barack Obama...only too willing to run after all.

    [ Parent ]

    I think that's probably one of the better (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by andgarden on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:53:51 PM EST
    assessments of this race that I've heard.

    [ Parent ]
    Agreed (5.00 / 3) (#151)
    by AX10 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:00:06 PM EST
    The intellectual/establishment left cannot stand the Clinton's because they came from nothing to where they are today.
    I would also say that many on the left cannot stand that Clinton is both an intellectual and a "bubba".  I know of many on the left who are predjudiced against the working class.  For those intellectual elites, they cannot stand (or believe) tha Bill Clinton can be from a working class background and be so smart.  In their view point, working class people are lowly and do not have the means to care for themselves.

    [ Parent ]
    BWA (none / 0) (#143)
    by DFLer on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:57:36 PM EST
    Bubbas with attitudes!

    [ Parent ]
    This is one conspiracy theme (none / 0) (#157)
    by befuddled on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:01:59 PM EST
    The class war. Sometimes it's the Bilderbergers or the Illuminati, those old standbys which are now hopelessly comingled but both are basically "Rich White Guys Rule the World" with versions where the white part is replaced. Another is the religious war with the endtime, antiChrist group vs. everyone else. However, get a grip. What is the evidence of a conspiracy? Palomino above had the same feelings that others have voiced. These intuitive feelings are thought to represent subliminal pattern recognition. Try that approach.

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe he sincerely thinks it would be a bad idea? (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:28:51 PM EST
    >What is wrong with some Obama supporters? Are they intent on losing in November by keeping the Democratic Party divided?

    Plenty of Obama supporters say the exact same thing about Clinton because she's refusing to concede immediately.  Or because a certain percentage of her fanbase seems determined (at least now) to hold the party hostage to her demands and vote GOP if she isn't made the nominee.

    It's weird to think that we need more bipartisanship in an internal nomination process.  But that's kind of where we're at.  Obama Dems and Clinton Dems almost see one another as separate parties, and it's worrisome.  I don't quite know how these animosities are going to be resolved, on both sides.

    Let's suppose he does (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:30:11 PM EST
    Here's what he does - writes a PRIVATE LETTER to Barack Obama about it.

    Do I have to spell out everything to Obama supporters?

    Sheesh.

    [ Parent ]

    Obviously you do (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by angie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:39:59 PM EST
    have to spell it out to them, but even then it doesn't seem to do any good, as they choose to ignore it and pursue their "but we are riiight!" course of action.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:47:17 PM EST
    you do have to spell everything out.

    Don't you know he's going to magically get 50 states in Nov. if he's the nominee? It's going to be the largest bestest mostest "progressive" movement ever to hit this country!!! Like WOW!!!

    Obviously you haven't been annointed with the fairy dust yet./snark

    [ Parent ]

    Please Stay Current (5.00 / 6) (#179)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:13:20 PM EST
    Obama will win 57 states in November.

    [ Parent ]
    I was thinking the same thing!!!! 50 states!!!1!! (none / 0) (#123)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:53:12 PM EST
    Except I wasn't.  No one is.  Keep saying it, though, if it makes you feel better.

    [ Parent ]
    Um (none / 0) (#137)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:56:04 PM EST
    yep, plenty of Obama supporters have told me this. I guess the fairy dust is some heavy duty stuff.

    [ Parent ]
    Well those people are idiots. (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:16:11 PM EST
    They're one of the reasons I stuck with Clinton as long as I did, to be honest.

    I do sometimes envision a modest Democratic landslide of 35-40 states in November, regardless of candidate.  But then the alarm goes off and it's time to get up and go to work.

    [ Parent ]

    Yeah, that's how you publically pressure someone (1.00 / 1) (#104)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:47:48 PM EST
    I'm sure Cohen thinks he's being extremely helpful by publically voicing the impolitic and ungenerous things that some people think need to be said.  I tend to doubt that the Obama campaign agrees, as right now they're desperate to defuse the pressure between their side and the Clinton camp, not amp it up.  Cohen and others aren't making it easy for them.

    I just think it needs to be said that not every pro-Obama quote was personally emailed from David Axelrod, despite what TalkLeft may think.  Sometimes people speak extemporaneously, which is always a bad idea for politicians I think.  Anyone who employs professional speechwriters is bound to blow it when they work without a rhetorical net.

    And yes, I know you can't defuse pressure.  It was a crappy metaphor and I apologize.

    [ Parent ]

    Lies get you nowhere with me (none / 0) (#168)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:06:25 PM EST
    I am the person who thinks the Obama camp sent Emanuel out to slap down Kennedy. I PRAISED them for it.

    I am POSITIVE Cohen is NOT acting at the behst of the Obama camp.

    And now I see you are a liar.

    Do it again and you are gone.

    [ Parent ]

    He probably does think it's a bad idea (none / 0) (#69)
    by Nadai on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:35:49 PM EST
    but so what?  It's pointlessly insulting to say it.  Cohen's a politician.  He ought to have learned by now that spouting off every thought that comes into his head, however sincerely believed, is moronic.  Seriously, what does Obama gain from this pettiness?

    [ Parent ]
    You're right (none / 0) (#84)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:41:39 PM EST
    Obama should never have opened Cohen's mouth in the first place.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama (5.00 / 3) (#112)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:49:02 PM EST
    set up these rules and Obama will have to live with them. According to Obama's rules, if a surrogate or supporter says something it's the same as the candidate saying it himself. So yes, Obama did say it by his own rules.

    [ Parent ]
    To quote Number Six: (none / 0) (#118)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:51:23 PM EST
    "Has anyone ever seen these rules?"

    [ Parent ]
    You (5.00 / 3) (#130)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:54:20 PM EST
    don't remember Obama's campaign setting up these rules back in Nov. when Billy Shaheen talked about Obama's drug use? Why, it was the same as Hillary Clinton spouting those words. Or when Cuomo said "shuck and jive"? It was the same as Hillary saying them. The screams of racism came right from the Obama campaign and they were calling Hillary a racist for these statements. Live by the Obama rules, die by the Obama rules. When you start something like that don't be surprised to see it blow up in your own face.

    [ Parent ]
    Re: You (none / 0) (#139)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:56:11 PM EST
    Okay, fair enough.  Could you post one of these statements from the Obama campaign calling Hillary Clinton a racist?  I'd appreciate it, thanks.

    [ Parent ]
    Jesse Jackson (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:58:19 PM EST
    Jr. said it after Obama lost NH. Screeching about how she "didn'