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Obama's Problem With Older Voters

Barack Obama's coalition of young voters, African Americans, and higher income white voters is apparently good enough to win the Democratic nomination. But will it win in November? Andrew Kohut discusses Obama's electoral deficiencies with older voters against John McCain:

Interestingly, older voters — many of whom supported Democrats over the years — seem reluctant to support Mr. Obama. Hillary Clinton has carried the vote of people over 65 in 26 primary elections. And looking forward to the general election, the national polls now show John McCain running better against Mr. Obama among this older age group — as well as among middle-aged voters and younger voters.

Furthermore, while Barack Obama’s appeal to young people coincides with their greater inclination to support Democrats, older voters do not show a greater allegiance to the Republican party that might explain their current voting intentions.

What Kohut is saying here is that it is not a question of older voters having more affinity for Republicans and John McCain. They seem not to like Barack Obama and his Movement. In many ways, that is not surprising. That triumphalism of the young voter, the seeming desire to sweep out the old could be taken personally by older voters. This may be a difficult needle for Obama to thread. More . . .

Kohut continues:

In a recent analysis, Pew’s Scott Keeter observed that while the current generation of young voters, who came of age during the George W. Bush years, is leading the way in giving the Democrats a wide advantage in party identification, no particular Republican trend is seen among older voters. . . . [O]verall today’s older voters’ partisan inclinations mirror the national average, which has been leaning Democratic.

This is about Barack Obama and his Movement for older voters, not the Democratic Party:

A look at recent Pew polls finds that the oldest and youngest blocs of voters come to very different personal judgments about Senators Obama and McCain. Fewer seniors, just 43 percent, hold a favorable view of Mr. Obama. Similarly, only 43 percent of voters under 30 have a positive personal view of Mr. McCain, well below his ratings among the rest of the electorate.

Unlike young and middle-aged voters, older voters appear far less captivated by the Obama persona. Many fewer of them say he is inspiring or down-to-earth, while more call him arrogant and hard to like.

. . . The personal and social resistance of older voters to the party’s likely nominee could well keep a Democrat out of the White House and reverse the nationwide Democratic trend.

I wonder what the Creative Class will think about that.

By Big Tent Democrat

Comments closed

< Obama Advisor Resigns Over Ties to Hamas Meetings | LATimes GE Poll: Clinton Beats McCain By 9, Obama Wins By 6 >
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  • Display: Sort:
    perhaps older voters read Krugman (5.00 / 7) (#1)
    by fiver2 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:39:02 AM EST
    who called Obama out on his use of right wing talking points on Social Security.  We know where McCain stands on privatizing Social Security, but where Obama stands is anyone's guess.

    No need to guess (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Pootsteen on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:46:33 AM EST
    Obama proposes that we raise the cap on income to fund the shortfall. An easy fix really. I remember when I had a job with a larger salary, that around Nov my check got a little bigger. Confused, I asked why. I was told that there was no SS withholding above a certain income.

    Obama is NOT for privitization. All SS needs is a little boost in funding and for the GOV to stop using the funds for the war.

    [ Parent ]

    And Social Security (none / 0) (#280)
    by vigkat on Sat May 10, 2008 at 01:44:21 PM EST
    currently is NOT in a crisis, which is exactly the right-wing terminology used by Obama.  Using Republican dog-whistle framing was not the wisest thing to do, and it did not seem accidental or inadvertant.  

    [ Parent ]
    If McCain Tried To (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:50:03 AM EST
    privatize Social Security, the Dems would fight him tooth and nail to it. If Obama tried to privatize Social Security, I don't know if they would be as strongly opposed or as effective in beating back the effort.

    [ Parent ]
    That's what scares me (5.00 / 8) (#18)
    by Davidson on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:51:39 AM EST
    Obama can divide the left like no Republican would dare even try.  Against the GOP, we're united; against Obama, we're divided and conquered.

    [ Parent ]
    Yep n/t (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:53:57 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    The creative class (5.00 / 5) (#3)
    by smott on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:42:11 AM EST
    ...will blame Hillary.

    True dat (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by annabelly on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:47:19 AM EST
    Look for Hillary voters to become the new Nader voters in terms of the contempt coming from Obama supporters when he loses. They'll claim they are "Democrats" of course, but we now know they are really the Obama party. They'll squeak out another lose come November if they win the nomination. Democrats keep losing because the leadership refuses to learn anything.

    [ Parent ]
    Older voters (5.00 / 12) (#4)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:43:00 AM EST
    definitely know the value of experience and know that there is no substitute for the real deal.

    3 years as a senator is simply not enough experience to be president.

    Kennedy's remark about Hillary not having leadership for the VP position was astounding in its stupidity.  Her experience and command over the issues is precisely why she won the older voters.

    Obama can't win them because he lacks that quality.  It's transparent.

    Now, if he wants to do a bit of pandering?  :)

    Technically one year (5.00 / 6) (#16)
    by annabelly on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:48:58 AM EST
    Since he's been running for a year and a half by his own admission. His third anniversary isn't even until January 2009.

    [ Parent ]
    Uh, Ted (5.00 / 4) (#44)
    by Athena on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:08:31 AM EST
    Remember that McGovern lost with the help of a VP from the Kennedy family - Sargent Shriver.

    I advise Ted to stay out of VP advising right now.  

    [ Parent ]

    Speaking of astounding stupidity (3.00 / 2) (#28)
    by bumblebums on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:00:18 AM EST
    Bob Herbert:

    There was a name for it when the Republicans were using that kind of lousy rhetoric to good effect: it was called the Southern strategy, although it was hardly limited to the South. Now the Clintons, in their desperation to find some way -- any way -- back to the White House, have leapt aboard that sorry train.

    He can't win! Don't you understand? He's black! He's black!

    The Clintons have been trying to embed that gruesomely destructive message in the brains of white voters and superdelegates for the longest time. It's a grotesque insult to African-Americans, who have given so much support to both Bill and Hillary over the years.

    (Representative Charles Rangel of New York, who is black and has been an absolutely unwavering supporter of Senator Clinton's White House quest, told The Daily News: "I can't believe Senator Clinton would say anything that dumb.")

    But it's an insult to white voters as well, including white working-class voters. It's true that there are some whites who will not vote for a black candidate under any circumstance. But the United States is in a much better place now than it was when people like Richard Nixon, George Wallace and many others could make political hay by appealing to the very worst in people, using the kind of poisonous rhetoric that Senator Clinton is using now.

    I don't know if Senator Obama can win the White House. No one knows. But to deliberately convey the idea that most white people -- or most working-class white people -- are unwilling to give an African-American candidate a fair hearing in a presidential election is a slur against whites.



    [ Parent ]
    All evidence (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:06:27 AM EST
    points to Obama losing the election. Playing the race card by the Obama campaign has only made the racial divide worse.

    I know, I know, we aren't supposed to talk about Obama's problems. We are just supposed to turn up the music and put our headsets on and tune out everything else. Whatever.

    [ Parent ]

    What Obama Wanted (5.00 / 6) (#62)
    by Athena on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:14:47 AM EST
    But I thought that Obama wanted a national conversation on race - why can't that include the current electoral divide that is apparent from the primaries?  Which is what Hillary pointed out.

    Is Obama the only person in the U.S. who is allowed to talk about race?

    [ Parent ]

    I personally (5.00 / 9) (#72)
    by Dr Molly on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:19:05 AM EST
    have found that 'national conversation' to be more of a one-way monologue than a conversation thus far.

    [ Parent ]
    Yup (5.00 / 3) (#93)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:24:57 AM EST
    It's almost funny how NOT transcendent the Obama campaign has been on the issue of sexism, racism, and ageism.

    Omigod, can you spell dysfunctional thinking?  :)

    [ Parent ]

    mutlitasking is a challenge (5.00 / 3) (#101)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:27:39 AM EST
    women can do it.  (snark)..

    Actually a monologue that resembles a scolding.  It's basically the victim is allowed to say anything, the alleged offender is not allowed to say anything.  Cause anything the offender says, will be used against him/her.  

    [ Parent ]

    very true (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by Josey on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:26:05 AM EST
    and I would never vote for a candidate that has purposely smeared an opponent with false accusations of racism and race-baiting!

    Obama could do the same in the WH and like Rove, leave no fingerprints.


    [ Parent ]

    Purposely smeared? (1.00 / 6) (#113)
    by Raheem on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:30:31 AM EST
    The Clinton's have done it to themselves... if anything, Obama tried hard to stay away from being a racial candidate...

    But you cant see that... thats very sad

    [ Parent ]

    When Bill said that Obama's surrogates (5.00 / 6) (#118)
    by andgarden on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:32:58 AM EST
    had played the race card on him, he was "committing candor." They had, clearly.

    It's been a consistent theme of the Obama campaign.

    [ Parent ]

    And you are ignoring the (5.00 / 4) (#173)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:44:34 AM EST
    fact that we all saw the race memo put out by Obama on how to stir up racial anger.

    Until that's acknowedlged, then it's impossible to truly discuss this with you because it's obvious denial of the facts.

    [ Parent ]

    Raheem, why do you insist on pushing these (5.00 / 8) (#234)
    by Anne on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:04:31 AM EST
    falsehoods?  I mean, you can come here and throw them around, but there are very few people here who don't know the truth.

    The Clintons (and please note: the plural of "Clinton" is "Clintons") have not "done it to themselves;" they have been in the unpleasant position of going up against a candidate whose surrogates and supporters - with a little help from Mr. Shoulder-Brushing - have made it their mission to take pretty much everything Hillary and Bill Clinton say, filter it through a racial lens and decide it is racist - and that is expected to be the last word on the subject.  

    The Clintons have become subject to the racial version of "When did you stop beating your wife?" - I know that, many of us here know that, and by golly - I think Senator Obama knows that.  I have seen no evidence of Obama making any attempt to rein in the divisive language, and his pathetic attempts to say that she is an admirable woman are delivered as if he must bite his tongue to stop himself from saying what the really wants to say.

    I would be most curious to know what it would have meant for Obama to be a "racial candidate;" I suspect that you think it means he hasn't overtly used race, but he hasn't had to - he's had others who have done that for him.  If you mean that he has avoided going into black communities - which he has - and avoided advertising on black media - which he has - then, sure, he's avoided associating himself with and reaching out to the black community.  My question is why?  Was it so he would not be seen as "too" black?  Was it because he assumed he would automatically get their votes?  Guess that was it, because in spite of pretty much pretending there is no black community, he's gotten 90% of their votes.  Pretty good deal - he got the votes without having the media filled with images of him surrounded by black people.  I don't know, I guess I just never thought "post-racial" meant ignoring an entire segment of the electorate.

    What saddens me, Raheem, is that I have a feeling that the white woman would actually do more to address the needs of the black community than the black man who seems afraid to acknowledge they even exist.

    Please - stop peddling misinformation; it won't sell here.

    [ Parent ]

    Simple answers to simple questions (5.00 / 6) (#133)
    by lambert on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:37:13 AM EST
    Is Obama the only person in the U.S. who is allowed to talk about race?

    Yes.

    [ Parent ]

    Well... (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by Dr Molly on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:42:21 AM EST
    Rev. Wright is also exempt, don't forget.

    [ Parent ]
    Im sorry (1.00 / 4) (#105)
    by Raheem on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:29:28 AM EST
    But has Obama criticized Clinton's comments?

    and if you really believe Hillary's intention is to have a convo on race, then you are acting foolish and delusional...

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry (1.00 / 4) (#46)
    by bumblebums on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:09:56 AM EST
    "hard-working Americans, white Americans,"

    That card came directly from Hillary's deck.

    [ Parent ]

    I read today (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by DFLer on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:12:27 AM EST
    she apologized for that

    [ Parent ]
    You're (5.00 / 4) (#53)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:12:40 AM EST
    ignoring everything that has happened previously to that like the SC memo. And screeching this kind of stuff is just going to turn off even more voters to Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    what's wrong with citing polling data?? (5.00 / 7) (#86)
    by Josey on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:23:53 AM EST
    Hillary shouldn't apologize for saying the white working class won't vote for Obama. The polling data proves it.
    Obama said it himself at a private fundraiser with his Billionaire donors.
    Obama's ignorance and arrogance is knowing he can't get the white vote but continuing to "brush Hillary off" the bottom of his shoe.

    And the white vote doesn't necessarily equal racism - but older white voters who recognize Obama is a media creation.


    [ Parent ]

    The numbers are racist (5.00 / 5) (#132)
    by lambert on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:36:34 AM EST
    Even mentioning polling data about racial voting patterns is racist. What's wrong with you, mentioning them? You've trangressed the unwritten law.

    [ Parent ]
    I don't believe what she said came out well (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Burned on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:36:02 AM EST
    I DO believe she is guiltier of using run on sentences rather than playing a race card. It's really no different than the one the media keeps pounding into the ground regarding the black and college educated vote for Obama vs the white, older, uneducated, working class, menopausal, and democratic leaning independent votes for Clinton.
    That is not a description of one type of voter.

    She's right about having a broader base.

    [ Parent ]

    Because of this stuff (5.00 / 7) (#39)
    by nellre on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:07:04 AM EST
    That kind of crap is all over the place.
    Last night on CNN it was sickening.

    They say stuff like that and then smugly assure themselves the the HRC voters will return to "the fold" in November.

    We should give them a good scare. If all 15 million who voted for HRC re-registered as independents, do you think that might make it on somebody's radar?

    [ Parent ]

    Defection (5.00 / 5) (#52)
    by Athena on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:12:33 AM EST
    Interesting idea.

    [ Parent ]
    Not defection (5.00 / 4) (#170)
    by annabelly on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:44:18 AM EST
    Just voting "present." :-)

    [ Parent ]
    Re-registering is not defection (5.00 / 3) (#261)
    by nellre on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:15:09 AM EST
    As an independent you can vote your conscience.

    By re-registering we'd actually be doing what Brazile, Kos etc. have requested... because we HRC supporters are no long welcome in the party.

    It would be a non-malignant way of speaking out.

    [ Parent ]

    Yeah, that's (5.00 / 5) (#188)
    by frankly0 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:48:56 AM EST
    what's absurd about these idiots like Herbert going on and on making up charges of racism and continuing to slime Hillary, even though her chances to win at this time are so very slim.

    They really seem to believe that they can lecture voters into supporting Obama -- the very voters that they themselves argue harbor racist attitudes. They seem to believe that calling out their supposed racism is a great way to "bring them into the fold".

    What they don't seem to grasp is how much voters resent being called racists when they don't like Obama for different reasons. They don't seem to grasp that holding themselves out as morally superior to the voters whose vote you need is not a winning tactic.

    Where's the unity in all this? The transcendence? The ability to bring groups together?

    It's all a disgusting fraud.

    [ Parent ]

    I agree (5.00 / 6) (#221)
    by Dr Molly on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:58:27 AM EST
    As my older, white, Hillary-supporting neighbor said to me the other day:  "I never realized they hated me so much." This is a woman who adopted and raised two AA babies that were crack-damaged. She was near tears. The ugly racial bullying in this campaign needs to stop. It has done a lot of damage even in my integrated neighborhood. On the national scale, the horror of it will be felt for decades to come IMHO.

    So much for unity, and my quaint MLK-loving hippie roots.

    [ Parent ]

    Not discussing the issues (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:09:46 AM EST
    such as ageism and the racial divide is irresponsible.  Contrary to the charges that many are lodging that Hillary was irresponsible, the fact is that the numbers speak for themselves.  It's ridiculous to not discuss the obvious.

    That's dysfunctional to expect an entire country to pretend not to see what is obvious.  That's requiring mass delusion for the sake of not making someone ill-at-ease because the topic is off-limits.

    Nothing good ever comes from trying to repress the truth.

    [ Parent ]

    its ok to say adnauseum that black voters (5.00 / 6) (#48)
    by thereyougo on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:11:10 AM EST
    flock en masse to BO, but Hillary says working class white voters go to her and its dumb.

    The double standard is insulting my intelligence.

    and btw, working class white voters are the emerging new majority seeing as the high information class is shrinking, remnants of what used to be the middle class.

    [ Parent ]

    Bingo! (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:30:34 AM EST
    I've wondered why that hasn't been discussed, frankly.

    [ Parent ]
    Bingo! (none / 0) (#156)
    by pixelpusher on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:42:05 AM EST
    This part:

    working class white voters are the emerging new majority seeing as the high information class is shrinking

    Yes, unfortunately the Obamists (I call them this to separate them from ordinary Obama supporters who don't care about a "movement") are whistling past the graveyard when it comes to this.

    Their numbers aren't growing.  They're shrinking.  But, if they just squawk loud enough on the blogs, they can listen to that echo chamber and believe.  I think this is a fantasy they need to cling to -- that "the world is changing" and that they're "coming into their own."  That pie they're in line for a piece of, is shrinking fast.  And soon they -- the Obamists -- will be fighting among themselves for it.

    This generation, sadly, has inherited the wind.

    [ Parent ]

    Rangel's right about that comment... (5.00 / 4) (#76)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:20:47 AM EST
    ..it was dumb. She was searching for a way to say it that it wouldn't come out so bad, but it didn't work. But to me its really only a sign of the climate we are in for with Obama. Everything will be a "gaffe" with this heightened hypersensitivity. Racism is real, I've seen it and it stinks. But still, working class white people do have a right to be listened to. If they are marginalized and made to feel like the dirty little secret that must not be brought up, then the race card will be played very effectively by the Republican party. Obama supporters can continue to blame the Clintons for that if it makes them feel good. It won't change the  result, though.

    [ Parent ]
    Herbert's column (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by frankly0 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:30:39 AM EST
    is just more of his by now infamous sliming of the Clintons -- reaching all the way down to bringing in Hillary's brother to try to produce a smear.

    Yes, Hillary's comment was very unfortunate. But to call it racist is just to make stuff up.

    What was she trying to say? Merely what everybody who's following the campaign knows: that white working class voters won't vote for Obama. Is there, in that statement, anything that entails racism? How about the idea that they don't support him because they don't believe that he has sympathy with them and their culture, or because they don't believe he has anything beyond rhetoric to offer them, and they need solutions? How about they don't support him for any of a variety of reasons having nothing to do with race, but that, for them, his race is not a positive reason to support him, as it is for blacks, and perhaps even some whites?

    Now I can easily imagine why, on the spur of the moment, Hillary would have said what she did. She's trying to talk about the group supporting her: working class whites. She starts to praise them as "hard working", in the way a politician would. Then she realizes that she has to mention that they are white as well, because, obviously, it's not true that hard working blacks are supporting her. So she blurts out "white". Suddenly, the whole construct sounds terrible, in the way gaffes do. (And in fact her blurting out "white" might have been in response to a sense that if she didn't identify this group as white, then it would sound terrible likewise -- had she not said "white", it would likewise sound as if she did not think blacks were hard working -- I mean, she's talking about "hard working" voters supporting her, and everyone knows that blacks don't support her, so doesn't that imply that blacks aren't hard working?)

    [ Parent ]

    What Will The "Creative Class" Say (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:44:53 AM EST
    about that?

    If they are being polite, they will say that us old folks don't know what we are talking about when we say that Obama has a major problem with seniors.

    Their other less polite responses make seniors even less likely to vote for Obama.

    Creative and old apparently do not mix (5.00 / 6) (#42)
    by Kahli on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:07:47 AM EST
    Many of the creative class bloggers have pointedly stated that because old voters support Hillary more than Obama, it is proof that Obama is the better candidate. Don't want to be associated with fogies when your new and hip and real.

    Many comments have been made about the sexism and racism of the race, but the blatant ageism has been nearly ignored.

    [ Parent ]

    unless those old fogies pay.... (5.00 / 7) (#92)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:24:56 AM EST
    ...your credit card bills.

    [ Parent ]
    It can't be called voting (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by Lahdee on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:28:47 AM EST
    against my best interests, as with the Reagan Democrats, so what's an older Democrat to do?
    I'll concentrate on my local races and keep my powder dry. Heh, dry powder, how ironic.
    You want the older vote 'O' man, move past the instant gratification you're feeling now and jump on the experience express.


    [ Parent ]
    when I used to read DK, Fred Thompson (1.00 / 0) (#57)
    by thereyougo on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:13:44 AM EST
    was called grampa, which I thought was funny, well he was a grampa, but still.

    [ Parent ]
    In some cultures (5.00 / 6) (#71)
    by Kahli on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:18:48 AM EST
    being called grandpa would be considered an honor.  In this election cycle it is meant to be a slur.

    [ Parent ]
    the creative class will deny that sexism and (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by kimsaw on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:22:35 AM EST
    ageism is prevalent among their ranks, just like they offer that Obama is the post racial candidate. They live in perpetual fog.

    The way in which Clinton has been treated by the MSM, Obama, his surrogates is just a replay of the historical right, only the right,now, is at least complimentary of Clinton's expertise.

    The increased number of "below 40" business groups established in struggling communities is evidence of the exclusivity and a new form of discrimination that pits the young against the old. We have learned nothing as a culture. Out with the old in with the new is running rampant. A prime example in the business world is how Home Depot under Bob Nardelli attempted to restructure its business by dispensing with higher paid, older management and skilled workforce. They favored inexperienced up and comers with college degrees only to see their business suffer. They even discarded the qualified plumbers and electrician  whose knowledge generated add on sales for their bottom line. Those folks were traded for inexperience sales staff and capped wages via the GE six sigma formula that did not convert to the realities on the ground in a retail industry. The unity of ideas was not in the cards. Obama and his surrogates do not represent unity if they freely dismiss the white working class.  If he, like Nardelli, is throwing out the old with the new failure can be foreseen. A marriage of ideas is important, the new together with the old balances the movement for change in government practices.  If Obama and the Democrats are truly serious about governing and winning a unity ticket with Clinton is in order.

    [ Parent ]

    They think he isn't ready (5.00 / 11) (#6)
    by goldberry on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:45:14 AM EST
    I talked to a bunch of them in PA when I was phone banking.  They made it very clear to me that they had no problems with his race.  The problem was that they had apparently watched the debate and found him completely green and unready.  More than one told me they wish he had waited.  
    I wouldn't be surprised if this is why Obama refused to do any more debates.  Voters are paying attention this year and they can correctly assess the strengths and deficiencies of both candidates in debate.  Obama loses every single time.  If he had debated before NC and IN, his margins might have been smaller in NC and he may have lost big time in IN.  
    Hillary should consider running ads with outtakes from the debates.

    *nodding* (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:47:26 AM EST
    It's not a race issue at all.  We have excellent sociological data showing that Americans have definitely changed attitudes regarding race in this generation.  

    It's his lack of depth.  What they might now say out loud is that they don't want to see someone that green in charge of our military.

    I think that's a valid worry, personally.

    [ Parent ]

    thats what is insulting to some of us (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by thereyougo on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:16:32 AM EST
    who want to advance this subject.

    there has been successes that AAs can be proud of and society as a whole can take credit that we're moving forward.

    [ Parent ]

    Who can hear seniors (5.00 / 9) (#10)
    by kmblue on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:45:57 AM EST
    from their position under the bus?

    Best black humor of the day! (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by Radiowalla on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:53:02 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I'm afraid (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by kmblue on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:55:26 AM EST
    the day is young.
    But thanks for your kind praise. ;-)

    [ Parent ]
    Is it really permissible to mention (5.00 / 6) (#12)
    by Radiowalla on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:47:05 AM EST
    Obama's lack of appeal to older voters?  Just wondering since it has become utterly impolite to mention his lack of support in the working-class white demographic.  

    The "triumphalism of the young voter" is a scary trend and it reminds me oh too well of the 60s.

    Good point (5.00 / 6) (#24)
    by annabelly on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:58:56 AM EST
    Which I've been thinking about for a while. His campaign has positively resurrected the 60's counter-cultural wars. Kind of turns Andrew Sullivan's thinking on it's head, eh? (not that that was terribly hard to do).

    The weird thing is all the boomers throwing their own generation under the bus. My father-in-law is a perfect example. He's an old hippie and he's voting for Obama because of all the youth supposedly surrounding him. I have a theory that these types of people have never grown up, and still insist (in their minds, anyway) that they were right and they got crushed. Now they are delighted to see their inner-children resurrected and their former thinking finally validated by their children or grandchildren. It's a twisted kind of youth-worship where they are actually worshiping the conjured image of themselves.

    That kind of solipsism is exactly why I have always bemoaned the fact that I am in the generation following the juggernaut that is the boomers. I continue to be trampled by their hysteria and their constant parental wars. They are still fighting their mothers and fathers.

    [ Parent ]

    Children of the Corn? (5.00 / 10) (#47)
    by Athena on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:10:16 AM EST
    Yes, I think it's an electoral version of sneaking a joint at 60 and being cool.  Plus all the parents "led" to Obama by their children?  Creepy.

    [ Parent ]
    I know a lot of older people (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by Radiowalla on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:13:44 AM EST
    like your father-in-law because I live in the Bay Area.   Your description of their "solipsism" and "hysteria" is quite on point and it sounds like you've lived through some of the challenges posed by your times.

    This "older" voter is very disenchanted with the 2008 race and very alienated from the Obama movement.  It will be a grudging vote at best, but I will show up in November to vote for the Democrat.  I will do this only out of respect for the Supreme Court.

    [ Parent ]

    I'd urge you to (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by dk on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:50:35 AM EST
    at least keep an open mind at this point regarding the supreme court argument.

    If Obama wins the nomination, remember that means Hillary will still be in the Senate.  So, the issue then becomes whether you trust Obama to actually appoint reasonable judges to the supreme court (which I do not, given that he has adopted republican talking points on issues ranging from health care to energy policy to women's reproductive rights and gay equality) or whether you trust Hillary to help lead the charge to filibuster egregious McCain appointees.  

    [ Parent ]

    Actually, this is the one area (5.00 / 1) (#237)
    by Radiowalla on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:04:58 AM EST
    in which I have no qualms about Obama.  I think he will appoint very good, liberal to moderate Supreme Court justices who won't tinker with women's reproductive rights.

    As for counting on a Democratic senate to filibuster McCain's appointments: no way.  The Dems have shown they have no backbone.

    [ Parent ]

    Heh...that is true (5.00 / 7) (#74)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:19:30 AM EST
    the real hippie dippies, particularly here in Berkeley, are in Nirvana.  I tell you, it's like their middle years when they went corporate and send their kids to private schools, will be absolved.  They will be cleansed.  

    [ Parent ]
    The same mentality.... (5.00 / 3) (#155)
    by lambert on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:41:38 AM EST
    ... that all the creative class types like WKJM, Yglesias, et al, are cleansed from supporting the war by supporting Obama.

    The poor bastard is going to be carrying a lot of weight if he ever makes it into office.

    [ Parent ]

    Well, I'm an older voter (5.00 / 7) (#21)
    by chancellor on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:54:09 AM EST
    and no, I'm not swayed by the "come to Jesus" rhetoric of Obama and his supporters. Why? Too many elections, too many promises not kept (and Obama's not even making promises we can evaluate). We're cynical, we older voters, because we really have seen more of the game being played. I also think that many of us grew up with a greater sense of civic responsibility-- and by that I mean that we were taught that political and community involvement was an obligation of being part of society, not a fad for the moment, or something you did as a member of a college fraternity to offset the idea that fraternities were all about socializing. We take seriously those politicians who take politics seriously, because we know that our welfare, and the welfare of those around us, depends upon it. Just my two cents.

    I laugh (5.00 / 8) (#29)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:01:33 AM EST
    when they run on change.  Imagine my surprise this year to see people swooning over that old hackneyed platform.  :)

    [ Parent ]
    Lost his bearings (5.00 / 7) (#23)
    by nellre on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:57:54 AM EST
    Obama's ageist jab at McCain.
    Sometime bright young folks think old folks have nothing to offer. That's why they're only bright.
    Obama is only bright.

    Bright learns by experience
    Genius learns by the experience of others

    "lost his bearings" (2.33 / 3) (#55)
    by bumblebums on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:13:23 AM EST
    has nothing to do with one's age nor one's faculties. It's about one's capacity to track a course and reach a destination.

    Look it up.


    [ Parent ]

    And fairy tale doesn't mean racist either. (5.00 / 10) (#87)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:24:05 AM EST
    But yes, let's be literal now.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh, snap! (5.00 / 4) (#143)
    by lambert on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:39:26 AM EST
    Well said, Maria.

    [ Parent ]
    "Lose one's bearings:" (5.00 / 4) (#88)
    by Radiowalla on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:24:08 AM EST
    Freedictionary.com

    to become bewildered.

    Or, according to Websters :
    To lose one's bearings
    to become bewildered

    Nothing to do with age...sure, sure.

    [ Parent ]

    Sure (none / 0) (#108)
    by bumblebums on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:29:39 AM EST
    to become uncertain of one's position

    Dictionary.com

    [ Parent ]

    Older voters value experience (5.00 / 5) (#25)
    by stillife on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:59:21 AM EST
    They've been around the block a few times and lived through many political cycles.  They're not going to be seduced by the "Change" mantra b/c they know from experience that change can be either good or bad.  Democratic older voters are likely to resent Obama's dissing of the Clinton years and invoking of Reagan as an agent of change.

    That said, there are always exceptions to the rule.  My 82-year-old mother is a strong Obama supporter and my kids (18 and 22) are Hillary supporters.  

    BTD (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:02:34 AM EST
    it seems that more and more evidence is pointing to the fact that Obama is simply unelectable. No matter how bad things are for the GOP people simply don't want Obama as President.

    The message here is that the voters that are more likely to show up on election day are the ones that are more likely to vote for McCain.

    I've seen this show before. It was called Bush I vs. Dukakis. I'm not looking forward to the rerun. I guess the best we can hope for with Obama as the nominee that he doesn't literally kill every downticket race.

    I'm not that old (5.00 / 8) (#35)
    by pixelpusher on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:05:54 AM EST
    I'm 40 and I feel the same way.  Am I too young for this attitude?  Don't know, but I am pretty much my aging mother's only source of financial and emotional support and every time I read the ageist crap spewing from the bloggerati, I want to slam them.  And then there are the ones who, when you press them for details about their parents, it turns out they have serious "daddy" or "mommy" issues.

    Look:  If you can't go home and visit your parents for the weekend and have a rational conversation about your issues over Sunday dinner, what makes you think you're qualified to tell a nation of older voters what to do and how to think and how to vote?  Wow, so you're so enlightened that you left your Podunk town and your stodgy Republican working-class dad  behind, and you dread going back for Thanksgiving... well, big fat hairy deal.  Solve your own parent issues before you start projecting them on the entire country, ObamaKinz.

    I've been shocked (5.00 / 7) (#37)
    by Dr Molly on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:06:51 AM EST
    at the disrespect shown to older voters by Obama supporters, but I don't know why I keep getting shocked at this point - disrespect towards so many kinds of people seems to be par for the course these days. Sometimes I wonder what kind of role models these people had, I really do. It's just not OK with me to personally insult so many different kinds of people. It goes hand-in-hand with the sexist slurs.

    This morning, on a 'progressive' blog that shall remain nameless, I saw a comment about McCain that was one of the nastiest comments I've ever seen (and that's saying a lot) - including phrases like 'cancer-covered skinny ass', 'feeble deranged brain', 'white-haired death walker', etc. It's just unbelievable out there.

    I'm no McCain fan, believe me, but there's really no need to talk this way or engage in these insulting personal attacks.

    Tonedeafness on so many levels. It's really no wonder that older voters are turned off. I know they don't read these blogs, but I do believe the general attitude ('we don't need your feeble as**s) percolates up through the media and other outlets as well.

    The Obama camp (5.00 / 8) (#60)
    by stillife on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:13:58 AM EST
    not saying all of them, but many of them, have a dismissive attitude towards constituencies (blue-collar whites, women, seniors) who have not been voting for him.  They don't seem to get that a political candidate needs to court voters, not dismiss them as ignorant, racist or over-the-hill.  

    Hillary has said many times that she's asking us to hire her for the most important job in the world.  I don't get that vibe from the Obama campaign.  It's more like, "If you're not on the bus, you're off the bus!"  Not a unifying message, IMO.

    [ Parent ]

    My mom would straighten you right out (1.00 / 8) (#182)
    by Defeat McCain on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:47:21 AM EST
    She is 70, an author, traveled the world much like Barack Obama's mama, a feminist, and she loves Obama. You know its funny how old people should be offended because young people are mean to them but young people shouldn't be mad because old people like Hillary Clinton have gotten more than 4000 of them killed in Iraq.

    Strange. I guess you all were Nixon supporters and Goldwater girls like Hillary when you were younger, so you don't understand the anti-war movement.

    [ Parent ]

    Um.. (5.00 / 5) (#248)
    by Dr Molly on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:10:37 AM EST
    Hillary is not old by my definition.

    And I am definitely not old. Certainly nowhere near old enough to have been able to support Nixon or Goldwater.

    But thanks for yet again demonstrating the classless and divisive assumptions about people that Obama supporters are so prone to making.

    [ Parent ]

    I ThinK You Should Change You User (5.00 / 1) (#265)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:17:33 AM EST
    name to ElectMcCain because your efforts here in behalf of Obama are counterproductive.

    [ Parent ]
    Ha! (5.00 / 1) (#270)
    by annabelly on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:21:31 AM EST
    This from the side claiming such former Republicans as Markos and Arianna!

    I swear, I am so writing that neoliberlism post that's been peculating in my brain. Identifying the characteristics will be the first ask. Projection is classic neoconservatism, and so it has a place in the liberal mirror that is the Obamaverse.

    [ Parent ]

    I've noticed (none / 0) (#58)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:13:53 AM EST
    the perculating factor, too.

    [ Parent ]
    Well we've known this since NH but sensitive Dems (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Salt on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:07:05 AM EST
    can't handle factual analysis with out going all weak at the knees and start calling names.  Watching these fools on cable yesterday again with the race card ohh Hillary played the race card and implied threats that she better not...or ya know tsk tsk ...I for one do not want this  nilly weak victim persona in Leaders running this country. Another Teddy Kennedy loser from his good ole boy stable is not good for this country..  If McCain wanted to really change the landscape of politics as usual and break the rancid grid lock the two Parties have on putting out puppets as nominee, he should woo Hillary to his ticket build a real coalition from middle America instead of the from the intolerant wings. The teatment of Hillary and her husbands legacy as well as Kennedy's snaky insulting comment yesterday during this Primary lacking any civility gives her permission to drop the Party and win the White House for us even on a McCain ticket if she choose.

    And that's not just the White House Dems are giving up by crowning Obama instead of having him win the Base it's the return to oblivion what about we American's do not want a Social Justice Liberal platform in power running this country since JFK was killed cant be understood.

    Goodness.. (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:15:29 AM EST
    you're a true radical thinker.

    Boy, wouldn't that be something to see?

    McCain/Clinton.  LOL*

    Try talking about changing partisanship politics against THAT ticket!  :)

    [ Parent ]

    I've seen this topic here before... (5.00 / 13) (#66)
    by p lukasiak on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:15:58 AM EST
    Where was it?

    Oh yeah, in the diary I posted here about 30 hours or so ago...

    ;-)

    Obama doesn't just "not do well" among older voters, his numbers are disasterous.

    And the reason should be obvious -- the messaging of the Obama campaign couldn't be more alienating to older voters if it had been designed specifically to piss them off.

    You want to send a subliminal message telling older voters that you think they are worthless?
    Emphasize "new" voters and a "new" coalition.

    You want to have older voters question whether you'd be a good president?  Make "change" your mantra, but make sure that the nature of he "change" is completely amorphous.  Older voters have lived throgh lots of "change" and know that "change" is not a virtue in and of itself.  They want to know exactly what you intend to change, and how it will affect them.

    You want older voters do wonder if you are really on their side?  Use Republican framing like "Social Security crisis" on issues they care about.  

    And if you really want to alienate older voters, treat the working class with contempt and derision.  Older voters created the middle class as we know it -- most of the more senior ones most of them were born into the 'working class', and most of the rest had parents who came from working class backgrounds.  

    Add it all up, add a dollup of identity politics (John McCain is over 70), add a little pandering to older voters by McCain, and Obama (and the Democratic Party) can wave buh-bye to a very big chunk of support that has been key to every Democratic party politician's success since the New Deal.

    You got it! (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:23:48 AM EST
    Great post.....thanks.

    [ Parent ]
    A natural, normal: McCain's Mama scored big pts (5.00 / 3) (#85)
    by Ellie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:23:49 AM EST
    He scored big by saying he wouldn't kick anyone's @ss for calling him old -- he'd let his Mama do it, and there she was, actually looking like she would, too!

    The problem with TeamObama's haste to write off groups that don't serve the immediate purpose of flattering the "youth" vote or desperate, validation seeking "Creative Class"* is that that kind of shallow trendiness evaporates quickly when the product under it shows itself to be the same crappy old thing, maybe even crappier. (eg, Doin' the Dew!; Drink Sprite, the Ghetto Soft Drink!; Starblechs coffee. Ugh, whoever thought up the genius move of dosing perfectly innocent espresso beans with caramel fakery deserves to be punished by being forced to drink it at the current cost.)

    *I hope they hang onto the term because it's so genuinely enjoyable. Really, Creative Class? That's the best you could do to represent your faction in Teh New Coolness? It's as efficiently self-rebutting as White Supremacist, Compassionate Conservative or Jumbo Shrimp.

    McCain's mom is cute..... (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:26:32 AM EST
    ...she made me feel young. LOL. I love David Letterman's mom too.

    [ Parent ]
    The Conformist Class (5.00 / 4) (#99)
    by Athena on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:27:04 AM EST
    And the Creative Class has entrenched Hillary-hatred as its animating sensibility - so much so that it's utterly conformist.

    [ Parent ]
    Perhaps many older voters remember this.... (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by SunnyLC on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:27:46 AM EST
    "Germany Marks 75th Anniversary of Book Burnings"

    http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/

    Watch this BBC video and reflect on the pressures being exerted by the Democratic party et al to stop the democratic process of voting in the primaries.

    It's scary...

    PS--I also honor librarians in this short blog post....

    Obama put Social Security in play... (5.00 / 11) (#106)
    by lambert on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:29:29 AM EST
    ... in Iowa, IIRC as part of his rightward slide to draw republican voters (it worked) into Democratic primaries, and to differentiate himself from Hillary. Atrios called him on it at the time. Since the entire Village wants to privatize Social Security, putting it in play amounts to opening the door to privatization -- as the blogosphere argued when we all beat Bush on the issue.

    The responses here all boil down to look at Obama's web site. That's just silly. We hold candidates accountable for policies and promises, not websites. So the dogwhistle in Iowa matters far more to me than the website.

    Further, if there's one thing we've learned from dealing our experience with Bush, it's look to the base. While the press was swooning over Bush giving them nicknames and feeding us pablum about compassionate conservatism, they might have looked at the base, seen that Bush's base was and is filled with Christianist lunatics ("God is in the White House"), and reported it.

    Similarly, a consequence of Obama's relatively more youthful base is that, very naturally, they place less priority on what happens when you're old. That's the nature of youth; that's how I was. But that also means that a big part of Obama's base has no reason to push to protect Social Security, and so SS may end up being a lot lower on Obama's list of priorities than some would like. Obama's dogwhistle tells me that; Donna Brazile tells me that; and the contempt and derision expressed toward "aging Boomers" by some in Obama's base tells me that. I don't think the contempt is in the majority, but it's there, I'm sure that others besides me have experienced it, and it should be slapped down hard by other Obama supporters, just like misogyny, but generally, just like misogyny, is isn't. (One of the many reasons Unity doesn't play for me, and possibly for many.)

    So, I'm not sure the Obama campaign feels that it needs to ask for my vote by trying to regain my trust on this, but it would be a classy gesture if he did. Otherwise, "millenial politics" translates, to me, as writing me off.

    Yes (5.00 / 5) (#123)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:34:29 AM EST
    we've become a nation that resents older Americans.

    I am quite sure I've been written off, and I'm in my 50's.

    So it goes.

    But I'm reluctant to give over my vote, too.  That seems to me to be self-punishing.  I'm not sure I can do that.

    [ Parent ]

    To the darling Obama goober trolls (5.00 / 19) (#112)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:30:31 AM EST
    Your 1 ratings of us are a badge of honor.  

    I wear them with pride.  

    Same here (5.00 / 10) (#129)
    by stillife on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:36:22 AM EST
    I take it as the equivalent of a "5" from an intelligent poster.

    [ Parent ]
    Hispanics too (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by nellre on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:39:08 AM EST
    California is about 30% Hispanic. Can Obama win CA without them?

    This type (5.00 / 4) (#147)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:39:59 AM EST
    of totalitarianistic language parsing by the left is running people away from Obama by the millions. Keep it up and he'll be lucky to get 40% of the vote in Nov. if he's the nominee.

    Amen (5.00 / 0) (#181)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:46:37 AM EST
    I'm not going to join a group of idiots.  LOL*

    I really am sorry, but this type of rhetorical bully stuff is just too immature for me to do much besides laugh.

    But I'm not going to hop on that bus.  I have too much pride!  :)

    [ Parent ]

    Registering New Voters (5.00 / 3) (#148)
    by kid oakland on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:40:02 AM EST
    149 of us in Hayward CA, a working class town, btw, will be registering new voters today.

    There are 70 in Orlando, FL, 21 in Nashua NH, 59 in Albuquerque, NM and 29 in Pueblo, Colorado all pledged to do the same...some are hitting the streets right now.

    I promise we won't distinguish between young and old. We are registering voters in a nationwide program to increase Democratic participation in elections.

    Obama launched and funded this program before the results of NC and IN were known.

    Over 60% of voters registered by Obama in 2008 have voted at the polls. That has made a difference.

    Any Democrat, young or old, should take this effort seriously. Vote for Change is a good program.

    kid oakland (5.00 / 5) (#180)
    by Dr Molly on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:46:07 AM EST
    I laud this effort, I really do. And props in general to the Obama campaign's organizational prowess.

    But I wish it didn't go along with statements from the Obama campaign about how people should centralize and not donate anymore to groups like VoteVets and WomensVoicesWomensVotes, etc. A tad creepy to me. What say you on this?

    [ Parent ]

    Do you remember 2004? (5.00 / 1) (#233)
    by kid oakland on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:04:25 AM EST
    A dirty little secret of 2004 is that George Bush's totals went UP in every city in the United States except Minneapolis and San Francisco.

    Every other city. Bush won hundreds of thousands of new votes in Democratic core districts in 2004.

    The reason?

    In part, unaffiliated groups did massive, non partisan registration of new voters in big cities in 2004 and those voters were not tracked or helped in any way to get to the polls. Many of them voted for Bush. Many Kerry supporters assumed that the ACT registrants would all vote for Kerry.

    It was not even close.

    Obama understands this. When Obama volunteers go out to register voters that brings those new voters in through that contact point.

    We follow up with them and "ID them" through voter contact (phone / canvanss) and then get our new voters out to the polls. ACT did not do that. Obama does.

    Further, Obama's outreach actively solicits new volunteers.

    Personally, I support Vote Vets and other worthy organizations.

    However, I saw firsthand the lack of coordination and false assumptions of 2004. That hurt us deeply in 2004 in Ohio and Colorado where we counted on votes we did not have.

    Obama is serious about winning this election. I have seen that from day one. Vote for Change is part of that.

    It's May 10th and thousands of us are out there. That says something.

    [ Parent ]

    Thanks (5.00 / 1) (#253)
    by Dr Molly on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:12:16 AM EST
    Informative. And, again, impressive effort.

    [ Parent ]