home

Why Obama Chose Wright

Josh Marshall and Noam Scheiber try to get ahead of the Wright curve by anticipating the next question - why did Obama choose Wright as his pastor. I believe their efforts are counterproductive. Scheiber chooses a passage from David Mendell's Obama biography to attempt to explain why Obama chose Wright as his pastor. In fact, the entire exercise is condescending. I believe most people are either brought up in a faith chosen by their parents or are drawn to its religious tenets. Obama himself has said that it was Wright who brought him to accept Jesus Christ as his savior. To wit, it was Wright's persuasiveness about Christianity being the "true religion" that made Obama choose Wright as his pastor. Not in Mendell's telling, now endorsed by Scheiber and Marshall. More . . .

To hear Mendell, Marshall and Scheiber tell it, Obama's was the choice of a calculating pol (personally I think this is true) and snooty elitist:

His intellectualism and black militancy put him at odds with some Baptist ministers around Chicago, with whom he often sparred publicly, and he finally accepted a position at Trinity. ... Wright remains a maverick among Chicago's vast assortment of black preachers. He will question Scripture when he feels it forsakes common sense; he is an ardent foe of mandatory school prayer; and he is a staunch advocate for homosexual rights, which is almost unheard-of among African-American ministers. Gay and lesbian couples, with hands clasped, can be spotted in Trinity's pews each Sunday. Even if some blacks consider Wright's church serving only the bourgeois set, his ministry attracts a broad cross section of Chicago's black community. Obama first noticed the church because Wright had placed a "Free Africa" sign out front to protest continuing apartheid. The liberal, Columbia-educated Obama was attracted to Wright's cerebral and inclusive nature, as opposed to the more socially conservative and less educated ministers around Chicago. Wright developed into a counselor and mentor to Obama as Obama sought to understand the power of Christianity in the lives of black Americans, and as he grappled with the complex vagaries of Chicago's black political scene. "Trying to hold a conversation with a guy like Barack, and him trying to hold a conversation with some ministers, it's like you are dating someone and she wants to talk to you about Rosie and what she saw on Oprah, and that's it," Wright explained. "But here I was, able to stay with him lockstep as we moved from topic to topic. . . . He felt comfortable asking me questions that were postmodern, post-Enlightenment and that college-educated and graduate school-trained people wrestle with when it comes to the faith. We talked about race and politics. I was not threatened by those questions." ...

But more than that, Trinity's less doctrinal approach to the Bible intrigued and attracted Obama. "Faith to him is how he sees the human condition," Wright said. "Faith to him is not . . . litmus test, mouth-spouting, quoting Scripture. It's what you do with your life, how you live your life. That's far more important than beating someone over the head with Scripture that says women shouldn't wear pants or if you drink, you're going to hell. That's just not who Barack is."

Wright certainly reveals his egotism in that passage. But I do not agree with Scheiber when he writes that:

[I]f you buy Wright's account--and it rings pretty true to me--it was his intellectualism and social progressivism that won Obama over. Certainly it's hard to imagine that someone like Obama, who came from a progressive, secular background, would have felt genuinely comfortable in a socially conservative, anti-intellectual church. The problem for Obama is that the flip-side of these virtues was a minister with a radical worldview and a penchant for advertising it loudly.

(Emphasis supplied.) I am not at all sure that is what Wright said. Moreover, I am pretty sure that is not what Obama has said. In this telling, Obama's choice of Wright was based on his radicalism and Obama's intellectual elitism. This is NOT a flattering portrait of Obama in my opinion.

Scheiber unwittingly drives the nail in with his final passage (he later updates to try and soften the blow):

[P]ut another way, means that Obama's decision to join Trinity was probably the opposite of cynical. Trinity was the place where, despite the potential pitfalls--and he must have noticed them early on--Obama felt most true to himself.

(Emphasis supplied.) Most true to himself? I think Obama spent yesterday arguing that Wright was not anywhere near being where one could find Obama's "true self."

With friends like these . . .

By Big Tent Democrat

< Late Night: Gas Guzzlers | The [W]Right Church >
  • Premium Ads

  • Blog Ads

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

    donate to TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Not flattering? Of course it's not flattering (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:22:52 AM EST
    Just as it was not flattering for Wright to tell the world that Obama broke with him for political reasons. Moreover, this

    Obama's choice of Wright was based on his radicalism and Obama's intellectual elitism

    Comes as close to the right wing stereotype about out of touch liberals as I can imagine. I only hope that what Obama did yesterday will end questions on the topic. I doubt it, frankly.

    didn't Obama write a DK diary (none / 0) (#171)
    by Josey on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:20:59 AM EST
    saying Dems shouldn't run away from religion? or something like that.

    [ Parent ]
    No More Psychodrama (5.00 / 7) (#3)
    by Athena on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:23:43 AM EST
    I've had enough father-son psychodrama in the White House after W and Poppy.  I don't want the rerun with Barack and Jeremiah.  

    AMEN TO THAT!!! (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by BernieO on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:44:00 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Yeah, who cares why he chose Wright? (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Exeter on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:51:19 AM EST
    I'm sure there wasn't a long interview process. Like most of us, he probably just starting going and decided to stay.

    The question: Why did he STAY with Wright? Oprah obviously left after a year because she found Wright to be a nut, why didn't Obama?

    [ Parent ]

    All politics (none / 0) (#180)
    by cal1942 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:33:30 PM EST
    all the time.

    I still believe that he joined the place to be seen for political purposes.

    Completely cynical.  If there were a way of confirming, my money would be on Obama never really bothered to listen. As long as he was noticed, he was OK with anything.

    [ Parent ]

    Heh (none / 0) (#53)
    by chrisvee on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:51:30 AM EST
    I thought one of the reasons we weren't supposed to vote for Clinton was because it would re-introduce her 'marital psychodrama' back into the White House (was it Andrew Sullivan who proposed that notion?)  Apparently he underestimated the ability of the media to manufacture psychodrama as needed.

    [ Parent ]
    the more his supporters try to spin (5.00 / 4) (#4)
    by dws3665 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:24:23 AM EST
    the worse I think Obama comes off. Listening to a clip (admittedly, not a representative sample) of one of his speech in Indiana yesterday (on NPR this morning), he really sounded off his game. Flag lapel pins? Meanwhile, Hillary is sunnily bopping about talking about pragmatic policy issues. Whether you think (as I do) that her gas proposal is Krugman-esque pandering, she is in her element and on her game. I thought the contrast was stark, and that this whole situation has really taken a toll on Obama's campaign energy.

    Obama always sounds off his game (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:26:43 AM EST
    That appeals to people, for some reason.

    [ Parent ]
    Worked great for Bush. (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:32:10 AM EST
    I swear, the more time I spend looking at politics the less I understand the mind of the American electorate.

    [ Parent ]
    Indeed (none / 0) (#16)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:34:13 AM EST
    It makes me question my own political judgement. sometimes.

    Who knows what gives Chris Matthews the "tingle."

    [ Parent ]

    Tweety (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:35:33 AM EST
    He did like the flight suit, remember?

    [ Parent ]
    Not me (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by BernieO on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:45:25 AM EST
    I have a lot of friends who say they wished they had listened to me about Bush. I keep reminding myself that my judgment on that was far superior to the pundits like Tweety. It still is.

    [ Parent ]
    you... (none / 0) (#114)
    by white n az on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:17:12 AM EST
    have a rather low bar for judgments if Chris Matthews sets the standard

    [ Parent ]
    Hopefully (none / 0) (#8)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:29:17 AM EST
    Obama won't pull a Digby and site "abandonment issues"  WTF?  And she thinks he should be president?

    BTW:  Krugman doesn't agree with suspending the gas tax.  Read his blog.

    [ Parent ]

    i understand (none / 0) (#13)
    by dws3665 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:32:45 AM EST
    Krugman's position; maybe my post doesn't make that clear, though. Sorry.

    [ Parent ]
    I think (5.00 / 9) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:27:31 AM EST
    he chose that church because of the politics.
    it was the place for an up and coming AA pol to be in Chicago.
    as some journo said months ago Obama may be brought down for something he only pretended to be.
    I think thats true.  he has no connection to the angry civil rights struggles Wright and his generation lived through.


    That is the best explanation (5.00 / 7) (#73)
    by BernieO on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:58:05 AM EST
    I can come up with. The spin that Wright's intellectualism is what attracted Obama does not wash. It only takes listening to Wright for a short time to realize that he is blowing smoke, using tricks like throwing out names and intellectual-sounding words to intimidate challengers, etc. but the reasoning behind it is shallow and at times down right irrational. (Notice how he repeatedly asks if a questioner has read a long list of names of theologers and philosophers and when the person hasn't he refuses to deal with the question.)

    I dated a guy like that in college. Everyone thought he was deep and brilliant but it did not take long for me to realize that this was all posturing.

    The fact that Obama joined this church to establish himself - a guy raised in the white world - as an authentic member of the African American society is understandable. Why he stayed after he established his bona fides is the troubling part. He seems to think that he can get away with associating with questionable characters like Wright, Rezko, Ayers and Auchi. He had to have seen what the right wing propaganda machine did to Bill and Hillary Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Cleland, etc. Don't forget he has long aimed at the presidency, yet he chose to associate with these guys for short term gain, then did not cut his ties when he moved to national office. That to me speaks of a typical trait of narcissists - they believe the rules do not apply to them. Sadly, as in Bush's case, they often don't. That does not make them good choices for president. We need someone whose feet are grounded in the reality-based world, not on some cloud of their own imagining.

    [ Parent ]

    speaking only for me (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:10:55 AM EST
    I am personally not exactly dazzled by the mans intellectualism.

    [ Parent ]
    What (none / 0) (#182)
    by cal1942 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:41:33 PM EST
    Wright's been saying is very old.  It sounds like a lot of stuff we heard in the late 60s, early 70s.

    I agree with Capt Howdy's earlier comment as well.  Obama joined for political reasons.

    [ Parent ]

    on target (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by kimsaw on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:51:00 AM EST
    Obama's moves are all political. He was a young man with a political career in mind and Wright open the door to voters. I don't by any of this psycho babble. This was a political choice gone bad. It goes to Obama's judgment, his own self inflicted contradictions about who he really is. Perhaps he should have figured that out before he ran.

    [ Parent ]
    He wasn't a pol at the time (none / 0) (#47)
    by ineedalife on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:49:44 AM EST
    Obama was a community organizer trying to gain "street cred". Wright was the ticket into the church scene that you had to be plugged into for that kind of work. If Obama was thinking White House at the time he would never had gone near Wright's church.

    [ Parent ]
    havent we established (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:57:04 AM EST
    he has been running for the presidency since kindergarten?

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah, but we didn't say he was good at it. (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by ineedalife on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:00:40 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    touche (none / 0) (#98)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:11:31 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Politics and Obama (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by wasabi on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:13:57 AM EST
    I think he always had the notion to go into politics.  You've got to start somewhere.  Community organizer is a good way for people to take notice of who you are.  

    From a McClatchy article titled Obama's Church Pushes Controversial Doctrines:

    "As a community organizer, would people join Trinity? Yes!" said Dwight Hopkins, a Trinity member and liberation theology professor at the University of Chicago's divinity school. (He said he'd contributed $25 to Obama's campaign.)

    However, "someone who wanted to run for public office would think twice about intentionally using Trinity as a leverage," Hopkins said. "When it's Election Day, all the politicians come to Trinity. But not every day."


    [ Parent ]

    methinx its partly (none / 0) (#48)
    by Rainsong on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:49:57 AM EST
    - as Anglachel blogged in her Radical Chic post.

    Obama sought radical street cred, people like Wright & Ayers gave him an aura of radicalism, without actually being radical.

    Kind of like people who want the cachet of gangsters, by listening to a lot of macho rap, and associating with rap stars.

    Apparently in some social circles, having people like Ayers as a friend at parties increases your 'coolness' quotient. Like in being a friend of the Fonz increased the coolness score, because he looked scary and your parents hated him.  

    [ Parent ]

    I think he chose ANY church because he needed to.. (none / 0) (#82)
    by Exeter on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:01:36 AM EST
    ...and stayed at Trinity because he got swept up with the group think of Jeremiah Wright.  I found it interesting that Wright recently said:

    "They wanted to communicate that I am unpatriotic, that I am un-American, that I am filled with hate speech, that I have a cult at Trinity..."

    This was a strange statement -- who has ever  called Trinity a "cult"?!? I think it actually IS more of cult of personality around Wright, than a UCC church, but its funny when people offer up attacks that were never made.  

    [ Parent ]
    I see a man thoroughly confused and conflicted (none / 0) (#154)
    by joanneleon on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:39:52 AM EST
    and aren't we all, at times?

    From this experience, I believe Obama will emerge as a person who knows himself and this world in a much better way.  This will change him profoundly, IMHO, just as Gore, Kerry and Edwards were profoundly changed during their runs for the presidency.

    I still maintain that Obama is not quite ready now, but he will be ready, and he could be a great president.  I strongly wish he would accept the VP slot.  There is so much good that could come from that situation, for everyone involved.  But clearly, I'm in the minority with that opinion.

    [ Parent ]

    Political expedeincy... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by coolit on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:30:13 AM EST
    no that there is anything wrong with that. It's just not a different kind of campaign.

    Obama chose Wright because it was a politically (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by Angel on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:32:09 AM EST
    expedient thing to do.  It was a large church and Obama could get more bang for his buck.  

    And (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:33:40 AM EST
    as usual, he didn't think past his next campaign.  When he joined, it made sense to join.  

    [ Parent ]
    That's certainly one explanation. (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:54:55 AM EST
    Unfortunately for Obama, all possible explanations I can think of reflect badly on him in one way or another, as either an opportunist who embraced Wright's church for political expediency and is now trying to wash his hands of it for the same reason, or as someone who had no problem (even if he didn't agree) with Wright's more outlandish pronouncements and is now trying to feign outrage.

    I think the truth is somewhere in between - I don't doubt that part of the reason he went to the church in the first place was an effort to establish credibility in the black community, but I also think there was an element of searching for his own identity. And while I don't think Obama agrees with Wright's nuttier and more objectionable views, I'm sure he's looked the other way on many of them for a long time.

    [ Parent ]

    Do people ever read or reread what they've written (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by kenoshaMarge on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:33:08 AM EST
    Trinity was the place where, despite the potential pitfalls--and he must have noticed them early on--Obama felt most true to himself.

    because if they read what they've written and see the above paragraph they cannot believe that they are doing Obama any good.

    Trying to put the egg back in the shell or genie back in the bottle is never easy. Talk is all ready out there that Obama is an "elitist" and that his "spiritual mentor" is some kind of a nut-job. Now he chose Wright instead of anti-intellectual churches?

    I don't see how they can possibly believe that these kinds of pieces are going to play well with anyone except an Obama supporter. And some of them may well be offended at the condescending tone. Anti-intellectual churches? Oh my.

    "anyone except an Obama supporter" (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:36:34 AM EST
    I believe that is who they are written for.
    they are not written to change minds but to provide talking points.
    they are intentionally preaching to the choir.
    Josh Marshall and Noam Scheiber dont have a lot of readers in the uncommitted middle.

    [ Parent ]
    These are bad talking points (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:41:48 AM EST
    is my point.

    [ Parent ]
    BTD There was an update to that article (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:52:52 AM EST
    that attempts to change the emphasis on "felt most true to himself."

    Update: Just to clarify, by "felt most true to himself" I mean "most true to himself as a worshipper." The point is that the pastor who made him feel most welcome as a worshiper probably also made him pretty uncomfortable politically.


    [ Parent ]
    Somehow, that's even worse (5.00 / 7) (#127)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:21:43 AM EST
    and I cannot mentally contort myself into a pretzel to make sense of it.  So Obama agreed with it all spiritually but not politically, and the bottom line is that he can be schizophrenic if it suits him, of two or more minds.

    Then the question becomes which Obama would we see from day to day, hour to hour, minute to crucial minute if in the White House?  Would he cling to one policy one minute and another the next?  Would he cling to another country's leader one minute and then toss that leader and country under the bus, too?

    Shifting alliances based entirely on expediency with no central principle spell trouble, trouble, trouble.  And ongoing Obama Drama for years to come, as he works out his midlife crisis on who he really is.  No thanks; I've got my own midlife crisis to manage -- but not about who I am.  Mine is about who the heck the Democrats are.  :-)

    [ Parent ]

    I'm Having The Same Questions About The Party (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:48:12 AM EST
    I'm beginning to believe the party has the same problem that you highlighted for Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    amen (5.00 / 0) (#167)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:19:26 AM EST
    so to speak

    [ Parent ]
    Actually, I've had those questions (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:04:45 AM EST
    at least since seeing Dems put up candidates like Casey, who do not support the Dem platform and principles that are important to me.

    That's why I have to be an Independent now, which is very hard for me, a major break from my lifelong practice.  But my principles are more important to me.  They're not important to the Dems now, because in their desperation to make the tent bigger, they have come loose from their moorings.  When that happens, the tent may stay up for a while, but it has to collapse.

    I prefer to not be under the tent when it collapses.

    [ Parent ]

    Became An Independent Myself This Year (none / 0) (#174)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:57:23 AM EST
    Although here in MO to do so is more a mental exercise than anything else since we do not registered by party affiliation.  What it does mean is that I will no longer buy into supporting the party or a candidate just because they have a D after their name. No more funds to the Dem organizations until they stand firm on core Democratic values and no money, work or votes for candidates that will vote with Republicans against my interests.  

    [ Parent ]
    Somehow that's even worse (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by votus on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:41:34 AM EST
    I'm thinking of some father figures who would be only too happy to advise the young commander in chief while he "sets the mission".....

    [ Parent ]
    Hijacking? (none / 0) (#176)
    by jackyt on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:07:58 PM EST
    The "Unity Party" couldn't get off the ground. I'm beginning to think the Obama campaign is an attempt to subvert and supplant the Democratic Party using its own machinery.

    In Canada, the Reform Party did it to the Progressive Conservatives. At their re-forming convention, the first order of business was choosing a new name. They came up with Canadian Conservative Reform Alliance Party. It took them 2 days to realize the acronym was CCRAP! I kid you not.

    [ Parent ]

    I think I love this anecdote :-) (none / 0) (#177)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:04:29 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    The (5.00 / 9) (#17)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:34:54 AM EST
    whole question of why comes down to two choices:

    1. He's a cynical and calculating pol who thought it would help him politically.

    or

    2. He agrees with the theology of the church.

    There's not much left other than the above.

    Either way (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by myiq2xu on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:41:29 AM EST
    he loses

    [ Parent ]
    To be fair (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:43:10 AM EST
    It might not be so black and white. It could be #2, but maybe he does not believe EVERY single part of that theology.

    For example, I am a very secular person, an atheist. But in my community there is a Unitarian church which I occasionally go to because I think they do a lot of good in the community - feed the homeless, promote environmental causes, social justice issues, etc etc. And, as I understand it, the Unitarians believe that faith is not about creeds, but about DOING good deeds. It sounds similar to what Wright talks about sometimes as well - living your faith by doing good works.

    Maybe Obama was attracted to that aspect of the church, but as he said yesterday, doesn't agree with the wingnut divisive stuff.

    Still doesn't explain why he waited until yesterday to say this, I'll grant you. But I can imagine some of what might have attracted Obama to that church.

    [ Parent ]

    He obviously admired Wright as a speaker (none / 0) (#46)
    by Fabian on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:49:23 AM EST
    Remember the whole "plagiarism" non issue?  Notice how Obama's style resembles big tent revivals?

    Obama was probably also a bit envious of how a leader of a mega church can get a lot of clout and respect without having to do much more than to keep filling the seats.  Some churches are more about entertainment than they are about challenging their constituents spiritually and morally.

    [ Parent ]

    Yes (none / 0) (#69)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:56:42 AM EST
    but there are lots of other churches that do the same thing without the black liberation theology. So it kind of comes back to the fact that it either helped him politically or he agreed with the theology.

    [ Parent ]
    Don't forget that Obama stressed his faith (none / 0) (#119)
    by myiq2xu on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:19:31 AM EST
    he talked repeatedly about his faith and his church until it became an issue (i.e. when Wright hit the spotlight)

    [ Parent ]
    Ever since the Second Great Awakening (none / 0) (#143)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:28:54 AM EST
    in the early 19th century, there have been plenty of faiths that are about witnessing the faith, creating a heaven on earth -- to use their common phrase -- rather than simply counting on belief to bring it in the afterlife.  

    This is the "Protestant impulse" that permeates all but the evangelicals.  This was the transformation of the Protestant faiths that gave rise to reform, from abolitionism to universal suffrage and more.  

    It would not have been at all difficult for Obama to find other options that fit this mold; there are many AA congregations even in my much smaller city -- Congregational, like his; Presbyterian; especially African Methodist Episcopalian; etc. --  that focus on doing good, and with good preachers.

    [ Parent ]

    If he'd gone Anglican (none / 0) (#172)
    by Salo on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:43:39 AM EST
    He'd have had no trouble.

    So is choice was bizaRRE.

    [ Parent ]

    Okay, (none / 0) (#151)
    by kenoshaMarge on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:37:04 AM EST
    they do good work in the community. But if you heard the same kind of rhetoric as is coming from Reverend Wright would you continue to go? wouldn't you be able to find another place that does good work but doesn't contain language and/or issues that you find unacceptable?

    Certainly in 20 years one would think it possible to find a socially acceptable place to worship.

    [ Parent ]

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:52:28 AM EST
    I just think it's at least possible to think that Obama may have had mixed feelings about Wright and that church. There is good and bad there. I myself would not have stayed and listened to that kind of stuff, but I'm not him.

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe to stop the Muslim talk (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:54:17 AM EST
    He kept pointing out his 20 years with a Christian Church. And not a little corner church either. And what did Wright convert him from? Was it really that he needed to be a Christian to run for public office? It makes me uneasy that he says to people that he is for them but can't say so in public because he is running for President. Such as the Palestine thing. WHO is the real Obama? I can not believe anything from his lips anymore because I do believe that everything is calculated. Even his drug use. No one can remember ever seeing him use drugs. But it is in his book. Maybe that is calculated also to show how he rose up from his vices. And there are so many other things. He makes Kerry look like just one sandal.

    [ Parent ]
    Well (none / 0) (#75)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:59:26 AM EST
    I think that is why he has been touting the church in his nomination run-to counteract the muslim meme. It still doesn't explain why he chose that church in the first place though.

    I agree that you don't know who he is or what he stands for. He hasn't been honest about his background either.

    [ Parent ]

    Or he is one of those (none / 0) (#20)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:36:32 AM EST
    passive churchgoers who figures if they park their body in a pew somewhere every Sunday, they'll earn their way into heaven.

    [ Parent ]
    Probably a false bifurcation (none / 0) (#22)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:36:51 AM EST
    but those are the probable choices, sure.

    [ Parent ]
    No, there's the father-substitute (none / 0) (#115)
    by Coral on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:17:32 AM EST
    answer, which is my best guess, and also gives us a reason why it was so hard for Obama to disassociated himself from Wright personally. It also explains Wright's antagonism toward Obama in some of his recent remarks--as a father-figure scorned.

    I can relate to the feelings of both. As a daughter, I remember when my Mom's statements or behavior made me cringe. And as a mother, when I recognize a similar response in my daughters, I feel genuinely wounded...and sometimes resentful.

    The issue of father-son competition has been alluded to in several columns (one by Todd Gitlin at TPM especially). Yes, Wright has been striking out at Obama, perhaps subconsciously trying to bring him down.

    I find the psychodrama compelling.

    [ Parent ]

    The more I think about it... (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by cmugirl on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:35:48 AM EST
    ...the more I am coming around to a conspiracy theory.  Obama wasn't upset with Wright until yesterday, after Obama had a bad week politcally.  I can't prove it, but I wouldn't be surprised if this whole thing was cooked up.  Wright says more stuff (but not new) over the weekend that's bound to outrage people, Obama makes a public "break" as he did yesterday and is "shocked". The MSM tells everyone it's over and behind us and we move on. It neutralizes it for the rest of the primary (since Hillary won't touch it), and it's now months before the GE, and will be "old news" by then.

    There's two competing stories here:

    1) Obama felt drawn to the church and to Wright, as he has claimed so many times for so long. While it is not my place to say what somebody should believe, I do question his judgment.

    He also claims he never heard Wright say any horrible things, so that means that a) he was never in church or b) he agreed with or just ignored the hateful stuff and dry hump-ing of the pulpit.

    OR

    2) Obama chose the church for political reasons. I don't care why people go to church - that's not for me to decide. But I think everything Obama does is calculated - he's a politician. But this latest speech just shows me that I can't trust anything he says.

    So, which is it?  Was he complicit and in agreement with these messages before or is he calculating now?

    I said the same thing (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:39:17 AM EST
    day ago but I dont think so now.
    it seemed like some kind of setup but if it was it was pretty ham handed.  and I dont think it is going to help him.  quite the opposite.
    also if you watched Wright its pretty clear he is off the reservation.  to say the least.
    the poster upthread is right Obama is off his game.
    visibly.

    [ Parent ]
    I've heard that conspiracy theory (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:50:22 AM EST
    and it seems rather contorted to me.  The reason Obama had a bad week politically is in large part because Wright took his act on the road.  If Obama had wanted to neutralize the issue by disavowing Wright, he could have done so in his speech on race.  He was obviously hoping that would do the trick, but it didn't go far enough.

    Hillary would not have used Wright against Obama in any event - she knows it would only backfire on her.  It's one of those things where you just sit back and watch your opponent self-destruct.

    The Republicans will have no such compunctions.  I don't believe this speech has changed anything in that regard.  

    As for Obama, I don't know what his motivations were in joining the church, and neither does anybody else but Obama.  What I do know is that it was incredibly stupid of him as an aspiring politician to keep up this association.  

    [ Parent ]

    Obama's bad week (none / 0) (#81)
    by cmugirl on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:01:17 AM EST
    started with a bad debate, cranky retorts to the press and then getting his hiney handed to him in the PA primary.  Then there was the Weekend of Wright.

    You're right - he could have addressed this in his greatest speech ever given on race, but he didn't.  Which leads me to believe that at the time, he didn't see Wright as the liability he became (which we here all saw). Getting Obama elected would have increased Wright's prestige and status (being a spiritual mentor to POTUS would be a huge coup) - why would he torpedo him?  He knows how politics is played and he knows words are for effect.  That's why I don't think Wright was "off the reservation" - he knows what side his bread is buttered on.  

    And apparently it worked. The MSM are all hearts and giggles again about this topic.  Wright is old news.

    [ Parent ]

    Some of the MSM (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:10:58 AM EST
    Fox is still following the Wright story (obviously).

    I agree that at the time of the Philadelphia speech, Obama did not see Wright as the huge liability that he turned out to be.  He was hoping to contain the damage and control Wright.  

    I disagree, however, that Wright has no motive to torpedo Obama.  He knows, and probably knew from the time Axelrod asked him not to attend Obama's campaign announcement, that he was not going to be installed as "spiritual adviser" to the POTUS.  I'm guessing that he was OK with that, but as the campaign wore on, the videos became viral and Obama had to increasingly distance himself, Wright began to feel betrayed.  This is payback, IMO.

    [ Parent ]

    Hm (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by chrisvee on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:55:40 AM EST
    Do we think Obama and Axelrod are great actors?  Because they both seem really thrown to me.

    I was wondering if Wright was sent out as a surrogate to increase AA turnout in NC (like Clyburn) but somehow became an actor of his own and went entirely off message hence creating the crisis. The first two public appearances weren't the problem; it was only the third one.

    [ Parent ]

    Are there space aliens in this somewhere? (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:00:36 AM EST
    Conspiracy theories always go better with space aliens.

    Seriously, I think what's happening now both men consider to be in their own best interest.  And I think the Obama campaign has had plan "Under the Bus" ready since the inception of the campaign in case a bad case of Wright fright developed.

    But the idea that the two groups are coordinating is needlessly complex.

    [ Parent ]

    I don't think (none / 0) (#135)
    by misspeach2008 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:24:57 AM EST
    that the two groups are necessarily coordinating, but I don't think that Wright is particularly upset about what happened.  If Obama loses either the nomination or the election, Wright has more ammunition for his black people are victims mantra, and if he wins, he can claim that he helped by taking one for the team.  As far as Obama goes, he missed the opportunity to disown Wright and make him an non-issue before, and this gave him an opportunity to do it now before North Carolina and Indiana.  Given how quickly the MSM has fallen back into Obama worship, the timing was great for him.  I think they both won this round.  

    [ Parent ]
    I have long (none / 0) (#153)
    by kenoshaMarge on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:39:45 AM EST
    thought that many of the Obamans had been assimilated by the  Borg. However I don't say it around many people lest they haul me off to one of those nice "socially acceptable" rest homes where old people considered having lost their marbles wait to die.

    [ Parent ]
    If you end up there, hopefully you will be (none / 0) (#181)
    by FlaDemFem on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:40:05 PM EST
    joined by this person. I thought this was so funny I had to share it with you all. I was reading the CNN story comments on the FCC story, and this comment caught my eye..and my funny bone.
    Obama/Casey 08 (Because America needs a president who WON'T "distort" reality and history for personal gain.

    Kind of makes me wonder what campaign they have been watching..LOL

    [ Parent ]
    You (none / 0) (#25)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:39:45 AM EST
    are probably underestimating the power of the right wing smear machine!

    Yes, I think he's still going to win the nomination.  Yes, I also think the right wing is going to "raise" many of the questions raised here, but not in such a kind and flattering way ;-).

    They'll still be quite able to use Wright against downstream tickets, just as they're doing now.  

    [ Parent ]

    Absurd (none / 0) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:41:00 AM EST
    imo.

    [ Parent ]
    We can agree to disagree :) (none / 0) (#43)
    by cmugirl on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:47:48 AM EST
    I wouldn't put anything past Obama or Axelrod.

    [ Parent ]
    I would say its contrived outrage (none / 0) (#85)
    by Exeter on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:03:00 AM EST
    and expediant outrage, but not a "conspiracy theory."

    [ Parent ]
    Ok (none / 0) (#92)
    by cmugirl on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:07:42 AM EST
    I can go with that.

    [ Parent ]
    Wright Comments=Obama secretly shares my opinions (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Exeter on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:38:54 AM EST
    This, in a nutshell, is the largest problem with Wright's recent remarks about Obama just "being a politician" or he "had to say what he say or he would be out of the race." Translation: he really agrees with me, but had to distance himself from me and my comments. That is why Obama had to act with more urgency than he has ever shown to quickly distance himself from Wright.

    But, if your "spiritual advisor," "mentor," and "sounding board" of 20 years says that you are, in essence lying, and that you really side with him, who do you believe?  Wouldn't Wright have gotten a sense over 20 years whether or not Obama agree or disagree with his world view?

    And if Obama really is sincerely alarmed by Wright, why now? Why didn't he distance himself from him before when he made one of his gazillion "controversial" actions or previous remarks, including his incessant promotion and collaboration with Louis Farrakhan.

    Not flattering and hard to refute. (none / 0) (#60)
    by Fabian on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:53:33 AM EST
    And since it's likely that Wright may escalate this battle every time he thinks Obama puts him down, Obama could be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    Completely scorn Wright and BLT and possibly the TUCC and risk Wright going completely ballistic.

    or

    Keep mum about any else Wright might say and hope the reverend quiets down and the media drops it.

    [ Parent ]

    Its like a priest coming out after a confession (none / 0) (#104)
    by Exeter on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:13:55 AM EST
    And saying "Ummm... actually this guy is just being a politician when he says that stuff. I, obviously, have heard otherwise."

    [ Parent ]
    WHAT DO YOU THINK IS IN THIS GUYS BOOK? (none / 0) (#173)
    by Salo on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:49:15 AM EST
    It's obviously about Obama.  At least in part.

    Obama will be destroyed.

    [ Parent ]

    The piece (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by AnninCA on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:39:59 AM EST
    is definitely tortured in trying to wring too much out of what we know.

    One thing that bothers me is that Obama now says that Wright was never his spiritual guide, just a pastor.

    It's all over the papers today just how often he contradicted that this past year.  I think he's being fundamentally dishonest, even in his repudiation.

    Hard to understand how sniper fire could be so important while this big whopper gets a pass.

    An even less flattering view... (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by ineedalife on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:41:26 AM EST
    and the most probable, to me, I read in an article on Obama quite awhile ago was that Wright told a non-religious Obama he was not going to get anywhere as a community organizer if his butt wasn't in a pew on Sunday mornings. It didn't matter what church, any would do. So Obama chose Wright's church because it required the least of him.

    I am a total cynic, but this seems the most likely scenario to me.

    I'd buy that (none / 0) (#42)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:46:05 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    IIRC Wright Told Obama Almost Exactly That (none / 0) (#84)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:02:12 AM EST
    It is in print somewhere but for the life I can't remember where. Could be in his Audacity book or one of the early articles on Rev. Wright? I'm not skilled at THE Goggle but maybe someone else could find it.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama said it (none / 0) (#90)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:07:08 AM EST
    but I as well cannot remember where it was.  I have been looking for that as well.  So much for intellect.  

    [ Parent ]
    Wright warned Obama... (none / 0) (#89)
    by Exeter on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:06:02 AM EST
    ...that the other local pastors viewed him as "controversial," though.  

    [ Parent ]
    An interesting component (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by ccpup on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:43:08 AM EST
    of this is what some might call the "karma" inherent in this situation.

    I'm thinking, of course, of that wonderful activist who gave Barack the opportunity to run for her Seat when she was shooting for a seat in Congress.  As most people here know, when she lost, she attempted to get back in the race and Barack threw her under the bus.  He seems to have a habit of stabbing people in the back when it's convenient for him.  And now we see it with Rev Wright.  

    I can't help but wonder how those SDs fighting for their lives in down ticket races -- and being linked to Wright solely because of their early and continuing support of Barack -- feel watching how Barack treats people once he's gotten what he needs.  Not to mention the AA Community who may wonder what, exactly, they will now get from their support for Barack.  

    No guarantees he'll scratch their backs once he's scratched theirs, obviously.  It seems to be All About Barack.

    I definitely see the attraction... (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by white n az on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:43:48 AM EST
    that Wright held was his complete control for the theater, the language, the persuasive element that captured the masses.

    I think it's clear that the style rubbed off on Obama. It's one thing to be smart but another thing to be a public speaker and to be captivating to masses of people. Wright definitely has it and Obama wanted to emulate it.

    Their relationship was only minimally about religion. Sure, religion gave Obama an amount of acceptability in the public realm but it's hard to believe that it's an enveloping notion to him.

    Their relationship smacks of teacher/pupil all the way.

    Here Is The Problem (5.00 / 11) (#40)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:44:06 AM EST
    Even this article based on an Obama biography contains statements that completely contradict what Obama said yesterday. Obama went with the meme that Wright was just the paster of his church trying to claim that was all he was. Yet, here again we have another example of Obama distorting the truth.

    Wright developed into a counselor and mentor to Obama as Obama sought to understand the power of Christianity in the lives of black Americans, and as he grappled with the complex vagaries of Chicago's black political scene.

    There are just too many documented cases that rebut what Obama said yesterday. This may not be brought out during the rest of the primary season but I darn well think it will be during the GE.

    Obama (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by AnninCA on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:01:37 AM EST
    lies are piling up.  It's amazing to me that he's so careless about this stuff.  He had strong denunciation, but then he added in that bit, which completely contradicts himself.

    This habit is a really, really bad one and confirms, actually, Wright's opinion that he's just doing the politician thing.

    [ Parent ]

    Boils down to (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by suisser on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:19:26 AM EST
    "he's so careless about this stuff"

    This is becoming my take away on Obama. He's careless. Not what one wants in the CIC, imho

    [ Parent ]

    Yes, careless (5.00 / 4) (#140)
    by AnninCA on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:27:20 AM EST
    is definitely showing here as the problem.  He was careless in letting Axelrod scapegoat Ferarro.  Digging a little story out of a local newspaper and blowing it into a national debate on race proved to anyone with a brain that he was stirring up the race issues.

    That's careless with people's emotions, in my opinion.

    He carelessly threw his grandmother's racism out for the world to see, and a lot of us noted it.

    He carelessly dumped on Wright in his speech, calling him a crazy uncle.

    Any mature person knows that one does not treat people this way, even in politics.  It's a rough sport, but there are limits.

    I do not agree with people who think Wright was all about being a ham.  I believe he's making a huge statement that his religious calling is above politics, and just because Obama is the first AA candidate to get this far, that doesn't give him the right to abuse that position and denounce the very principles he sat for 20 years and pretended to believe.

    I think that was Wright's message.  And I suspect he's got lots of AA people who totally agree.

    I'll be curious to see the polls and what fall-out this has in the AA community.  It's really their issue.

    Voters who may have wondered if this guy could be trusted will now know that he's the ultimate expedient type.  He'll say or do anything to get elected.  (Funny how these attack slogans are all coming back to describe himself.)

    [ Parent ]

    AA fallout? The Chicago Defender (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:56:01 AM EST
    as the historic AA press chain, first and largest in the country, as well as hq'd in the home of both Obama and Wright, will be the one to watch.  Nothing yet on its site on Obama's press op yesterday -- but so far, huge on its online front page is a photo of Wright and a story on his preaching of "racial tolerance" at the NAACP event.  This is the take:

    Detroit Branch NAACP President, Rev. Wendell Anthony, gave a moving introduction of Wright before his speech, at one point asking all clergy members, both Black and white, to stand. In his introduction Anthony said Wright's work is one that points to the historic role of the African American church to defend and speak to issues in the African American community. The NAACP will continue to speak truth to power, Anthony said, urging Wright not to feel lonely in what many are calling his new "battle to defend his reputation of helping and caring for the needy in America and Africa."

    Defending the NAACP invitation to Wright, Anthony said, "It's bigger than all three of them," referring to presidential candidates Obama, Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y. and Republican Sen. John McCain. "This is about the African American church. This is about our church. This is about our people. This is about our right to speak truth to power. It is not a white thing, nor is it a Black thing. It is the right thing we're doing here tonight," Anthony declared.

    It's hard to imagine how the Defender would flip-flop from that and defend Obama over Wright.  But we will have to see.  Watch the Defender.  (But also the Baltimore Afro-American and Pittsburgh Courier; those are the big three, with franchises across the country.)

    [ Parent ]

    Many People Are Willing To Accept That Pols Do (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:25:41 AM EST
    what pols do. IOW distort the truth when it is politically expedient to do so. They may not like this fact but they accept the reality of it.

    Then you have people like many Obama's young supporters who want desperately to believe that their candidate is above all that.

    When all the contradictions are laid out for all to see it will go unfavorably against his uniter rhetoric, his judgement and his trustworthiness.

    Personally, I would like politicians to be above all this, know they will not be and hope they are not completely stupid when they do it.

    Throwing his grandmother under the bus makes me question if there is anything that Obama is unwilling to sacrifice to feed his political ambitions. The sheer stupidity of the way he handled this problem makes me question his ability to win the GE and handle the difficult problems  that now face the country.  

    [ Parent ]

    Bad judgment/bad politics (5.00 / 4) (#44)
    by candideinnc on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:48:39 AM EST
    Obama infused his campaign with religion early on.  In making his faith a political issue, he brought his pastor with him on a really bumpy ride.  Now Wright has made race the issue of Obama's campaign, and it couldn't be a worse issue--more divisive, less productive--than anything Obama could have brought up.  No, this is definitely not some political ploy of Obama's, it is not some brilliant end run, and it does have the potential for crushing his political aspirations.

    Why this helps Hillary (none / 0) (#55)
    by coolit on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:52:41 AM EST
    No longer can any Obama supporter falsely claim that Clinton made race an issue.  No longer can congressmen say that Clinton is ripping the AAs away from the party.  This controversy is far more "racial" than anything she has ever done, so the Obama campaign and supporters can no longer play their race card anymore.  

    This was the one thing holding back Clinton;  the veiled thought that she may be considered a racist.  Now, that consideration has been made, in all senses, moot.

    [ Parent ]

    Unfortunately (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:04:10 AM EST
    I don't see that happening.  I saw a couple of AA talk-radio hosts on CNN and Fox last night, who were all up in arms about the prospect of Hillary "stealing" the nomination from Obama, and threatening to vote for McCain if that happens.

    I see Obama supporters claiming that the Clinton campaign is conspiring with Wright to bring down Obama.  

    I think that in the minds of some supporters, Hillary is a de facto racist simply for running against Obama.  That's not going to change.

    [ Parent ]

    Ugh (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:07:40 AM EST
    still playing the race card I see. They are hurting Obama more and more. I guess when Obama loses most of the rest of the states or loses in Nov. they'll be calling everyone else racists.

    [ Parent ]
    For many people (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by AnninCA on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:12:38 AM EST
    it's not a "card."  It's the way they see the world and people.

    They will believe in their hearts that anyone who supported Hillary is a racist.

    Today there was an editorial that essentially said that anyone who votes for Hillary because of the Wright flap is a racist.

    Politically, I think that the damage is done.

    [ Parent ]

    So frustrating (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by coolit on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:19:23 AM EST
    I really thought that for the past 8 years, the American people had been so off base.  How could they keep electing Bush?  

    But then this election came and I was thinking, finally, we have done it, and I will again feel comfortable with the American people.  Our path has been corrected.

    But now, with everyone calling Hillary a racist, and she is trying to smear a black man, and she is stealing the nomination, and she is alienating black democrats .....

    I now find myself so different from the American people again.  This is  so frustrating.

    [ Parent ]

    "anyone who votes for Hillary" (none / 0) (#124)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:21:16 AM EST
    one wonders if they actually believe this sort of crap will get MORE votes for them?


    [ Parent ]
    Um no (none / 0) (#183)
    by nell on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 02:54:47 PM EST
    Deciding that you do not wish to support Obama because of Wright is not about racism, it is about judgement. While Obama lost my support long before Wright became an issue, this situation with Wright was just one more thing that confirmed I made the right decision.  One of the things I detested most about GWB was his close association with religious extremists on the right. Wright may be a religious extremist on the left, but he is an extremist just the same.

    Though Obama may not share all of Wright's views, I simply cannot believe that he sat in those pews for 20 years and donated more than 50,000 to the church in two years time and did not know what Wright's beliefs are. While there is truth to some of what Wright says, I do think he is misguided when he uses terms like the US of the KKK-A and God D*** America. And don't even get me started on the extreme disrespect he showed to Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, and even Natalee Holloway, and this is just in the publicized clips. Neither Wright nor Obama have offered any apology to the Clintons.

    By attending that church and by funding the church, Obama implictly tolerates those statements, even if he does not agree in full. Perhaps you believe Obama when he says he didn't know, but I do not believe him for a second. It defies credibility to think that he was part of this institution for 20 years but had no idea Wright really had such extreme views. If he did not know, he is a fool. If he did know and said nothing, he has shown that he is spineless. If he could not stand up to his own preacher, why should I believe he will stand up to dictators, etc?

    I am a minority who does not participate in organized religion. My discomfort with Obama, which has grown due to Wright, has nothing to do with racism, it has everything to do with judgement. I believe you should speak out against bigotry in every form and Obama is either so clueless that he should not be president, or he failed to speak out against bigotry. Either situation is a huge problem for me.


    [ Parent ]