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Weds. Night Open Thread

Big Tent Democrat has plans this evening and I'm off to take the TL kid out for a big steak dinner to celebrate his passing the bar.

Feel free to hold down the fort --just please try hard not to burn the place down.

This is an open thread.

Update: Comments now closed.

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    Congratulations to TL kid! (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by Shainzona on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:10:38 PM EST


    Have a great dinner! (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:11:14 PM EST
    and rest assured that Hillary is holding her own against Bill O.

    Desert: New NC Poll: Hillary up by two! (none / 0) (#159)
    by Exeter on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:00:33 PM EST
    Discussed below (none / 0) (#161)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:01:20 PM EST
    It's junk.

    Parent
    I hate to admit that I'm watching (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by Coldblue on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:12:17 PM EST
    but Hillary is kicking ass so far on O'Reilly.

    She is on fire! (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by ChiTownDenny on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:16:30 PM EST
    They are fired up! (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:20:39 PM EST
    Personality contest... he keeps trying, but...

    OT it would be great to get clips of Lou Dobbs from tonight (I know, shut up, I'm watching Fox and Lou Dobbs) they had positive things to say about Clinton, energy, looks great, it's about her not Bill and Hillary, talking from the heart.

    It's so odd, I keep seeing positive things... polls, opinions, Clinton on Fox....

    Parent

    O Reilly (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Leisa on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:43:08 PM EST
    is such a devilish character.  I was worried for her when I read the tease.  I just prayed she would give him h$ll and make him more comfortable.

    From what I am hearing, she did that!!

    Go, Hillary!  Go!

    I have heard her referred to the Iron Lady as a way to disparage her, but I think it is a compliment in many ways.

    Teflon has been proven to be bad for our health.

    Iron, as a cooking surface actually gives us the benefit of that element, which helps make us stronger.

    So, Go Iron Lady, GO!!

    Just beautiful.

    Parent

    and Iron (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by otherlisa on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:54:18 PM EST
    handles high heat MUCH better than Teflon!

    Teflon, if heated too high, becomes gaseous fumes that kill parrots.

    Save the Macaws! No Teflon in the White House!

    Parent

    Hi otherlisa (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Leisa on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:09:07 PM EST
    I have noticed your other posts.  I grew up with at least two or more Lisa's in my grade back in the day...  I can really relate to your name.

    I appreciate your addition to the great qualities of iron!

    Parent

    Very nice to meet you too! (none / 0) (#83)
    by otherlisa on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:18:41 PM EST
    I once worked at a tiny company - there were a dozen people at most - and three of us were Lisa's.

    Two of us were required to adopt nicknames, so as not to confuse the business' founder, who did tend to get easily confused.

    I love my iron skillets! Seriously. I don't have a non-stick pan in the house any more.

    Parent

    She's so amazing. (5.00 / 3) (#122)
    by ahazydelirium on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:15:32 PM EST
    She didn't bash the liberal bloggers and pundits who bash her, and she injected "fair and balanced" with such great sarcasm!

    Why is it at all a question whether Hillary should be our nominee!

    Parent

    She projected (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by Coldblue on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:22:18 PM EST
    the complete confidence of a true leader.

    Parent
    She is! (none / 0) (#8)
    by pie on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:18:57 PM EST
    I love it.

    Parent
    So I've entered the No Democrat Zone (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:12:28 PM EST
    to document the atrocities.

    It's a confrontational interview so far, and equal parts silly and productive. I do like that HIllary schooled Bill about healthcare. It sounded a bit like my family dinner table occasionally does. . .

    I did not much like hearing that we'd be getting analysis from. . .Dennis Miller and Dick Morris later--there's no way they can be or will be fair to Hillary, and that's why Democrats should never go on fox news.

    Yeah, I think the fair and balanced part is (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:22:27 PM EST
    getting ready to end. Morris?

    I do like how she took on Bill O. She takes no crap from anybody and I like it.

    Parent

    Could somebody explain Dennis Miller (5.00 / 5) (#15)
    by dianem on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:24:18 PM EST
    I do not understand his appeal. He was supposed to be a comedian, but he was never funny and now he's some kind of pundit, but he knows nothing about politics. He has no personality that I can see. Why is this man not selling used cars in Biloxi?

    Parent
    Quite (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:25:05 PM EST
    Change the channel (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:30:40 PM EST
    I watch Fox but change the channel alot.  Miller is one of those times.  I saw the two female talking heads say 'masterful interview, she did great' and 'if she can handle BO, she can handle all of the rogue nations out there, she did great' and I quickly change the channel because I know what's coming next.

    Parent
    BO? Didn't notice. . . (none / 0) (#48)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:43:57 PM EST
    that Barack Obama and Bill O'Reilly have the same initials.  Wonder what O'Reilly's middle name is.

    Unless you meant if she can handle body odor in which case never mind.

    Parent

    Ha - pretty sure it is not (none / 0) (#95)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:32:01 PM EST
    the same as Obama's - the middle name that shall not be mentioned.

    Maybe it's Hitler.

    Parent

    He's not selling used cars (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Nadai on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:37:34 PM EST
    because no one would buy them if he tried.  Selling cars actually takes some intelligence.

    Parent
    He is a too.l (none / 0) (#30)
    by Mrwirez on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:30:43 PM EST
    ...... I'm a horrible comic soooooo... I'll be a right wing blabber mouth..

    Parent
    I used to think he was very funny in the (none / 0) (#43)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:41:17 PM EST
    80's before he became a Repub.

    Parent
    sadly, me too. (none / 0) (#162)
    by Oje on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:05:44 PM EST
    But, when I think back to then, whether he voted R or D, I think his humor was Reagan Republican (anti-government humor that characterized the era). It is just that his Republican ideology changed with times. We now know that electoral success (and coups) tend to make Republicans deadly, authoritarian, nasty, and humorless over time!

    Parent
    How pathetic? They had to PAY his studio audience (none / 0) (#55)
    by Ellie on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:47:43 PM EST
    ... and they still couldn't fill the place (at his short-lived talk show.)

    Not surprisingly, that wire story drew the biggest laughs that show ever got.

    Parent

    He has very (none / 0) (#76)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:12:49 PM EST
    diminutive hands.  Seriously.  Like an 8-year old girl.  It really freaks me out.

    Parent
    There (none / 0) (#112)
    by sas on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:58:48 PM EST
    is no way to explain him.  

    Parent
    well (none / 0) (#149)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:40:58 PM EST
    he is doing comedy on Bill O'Reilly which for a former superstar from SNL is the equivalent of used selling cars in Biloxi.

    Parent
    Please keep us posted (none / 0) (#6)
    by bjorn on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:16:17 PM EST
    stuck at work and cannot watch (cries)

    Parent
    It's a fun interview (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:19:25 PM EST
    you should watch later.

    Parent
    It's fine. (none / 0) (#10)
    by pie on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:20:00 PM EST
    He stopped interrupting her and let her talk.

    Parent
    Dinner table a good analogy (none / 0) (#109)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:45:54 PM EST
    I missed the first part, but at the point I came in it did seem very conversational, not like normal interview format.  Hillary is very quick, and I liked that they kind of talked over eachother a little bit  like normal people do, but not in the extreme shouting match way.  I was just a little disappointed that I had heard some of her lines before, but I imagine she gets so used to saying them that they pop out automatically.

    Bill says the rest of it will be on tomorrow. Sigh.  I've never watched Fox 2 days in a row in my life, but I guess if Hillary can take it so can I.

    Her chair seemed very uncomfortable.  I wonder if Bill does that to all his guests.

    I turned it off right after she was done - could not subject myself to Dennis Miller.

    Parent

    Hillary has been there and back (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by pie on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:21:18 PM EST
    O'Reilly isn't going to best her.

    So when is Obama going to be interviewed?

    I don't see Obama being able to (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by MMW on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:27:35 PM EST
    She's doing well, because she knows history and policy. She's relaxed. He (O'Reilly) can't seem to talk over her and dominate as he usually does.

    I don't see it going as well with Obama. I'm trying to be objective (I'm not even sure I'm capable of it anymore), but Obama takes too long to speak and he doesn't have the same grasp of policy or history.

    Parent

    Hillary is more than holding her own! (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by felizarte on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:27:10 PM EST
    Not making any attempt to soft pedal anything.  O"reily is doing his best to be aggressive in his question but Hillary is able to rattle off facts like nobody's business on taxes, energy, universal healthcare.

     O'reilly had two Obama supporters to comment. One of them said that "if Hillary could face O'reilly, she could face any rogue nation out there."

    I love it! (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by bjorn on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:29:12 PM EST
    I agree! (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by MMW on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:30:30 PM EST
    Hillary is scoring tonight.

    O'Reilly isn't sugar coating or throwing softballs, but she's more than holding her own. She looks like she's thriving on having to talk about policy.

    Parent

    I think I hate Morris worse than Bill O. (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:36:04 PM EST
    I'm changing the channel now.

    It gets worse (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:46:13 PM EST
    Bill launches into a rant against Daily Kos. Says Hillary is getting her revenge.

    Hmm, I'm not comfortable with this. . .

    Parent

    I turned it off after she left. (none / 0) (#88)
    by eleanora on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:26:10 PM EST
    What did Bill O say about DK?

    Parent
    Same old song (none / 0) (#92)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:29:31 PM EST
    "smear merchants" etc.

    Parent
    Yeah? n/t (none / 0) (#93)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:31:22 PM EST
    You were expecting perhaps a love serenade? (none / 0) (#97)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:32:24 PM EST
    No, My point is. . . (none / 0) (#105)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:38:41 PM EST
    I don't have any objection to O'Reilly's characterization of the current incarnation of Daily Kos.  If so experienced a smear meister as Mr. O'Reilly pronounces on the subject you can take it as coming from an expert.

    Parent
    It's funny (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:46:43 PM EST
    He used to be wrong, but he's become right.

    Parent
    Had negative things about HuffPost too (none / 0) (#107)
    by felizarte on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:41:53 PM EST
    Clinton haters.

    Parent
    Hatte (none / 0) (#66)
    by Wile ECoyote on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:00:49 PM EST
    the new progressive mantra.

    Parent
    Morris (none / 0) (#78)
    by Leisa on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:13:09 PM EST
    and Fox hear from me regularly.  His blatant hate is unprofessional.  I could say more but I do not want to hurt a certain demographic of friends that I love...  so I will leave it at that.

    Parent
    Did you guys read the Mayhill (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:53:10 PM EST
    Fowler piece?
    I found it at noquarter: Obama losing focus?

    I hope Obama is not expecting the actual job to be easier than campaigning.
    Face it, some people just do not have the stamina for that kind of work---18 hour days with hardly a break. I know I wouldn't.

    This Is My Favorite Part Of The Fowler Piece (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:37:18 PM EST
    Don't hit on Hillary." Only the day before the Hickory event, Jean Weiss, a feisty eighty-two year-old, told Obama, when he called on her, thinking he would get a question, just that. Age admonishing youth, it was a powerful moment that the crowd much appreciated. That Senator Obama seemed to have forgotten Weiss only a day later may be a sign only of Wright-driven stress.


    Parent
    Read that (none / 0) (#94)
    by RalphB on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:31:23 PM EST
    and thought it sounded like what I've been thinking a bit lately.  Obama seems to be a sloppy candidate when he doesn't have a teleprompter.


    Parent
    I'm afraid we're (none / 0) (#155)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:52:42 PM EST
    looking at another president who can't think on the fly and can't speak without stammering and fumbling for words if Hillary can't pull off a small miracle and get the nod.

    Parent
    Best Quote of the day: (5.00 / 6) (#65)
    by Mrwirez on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:00:36 PM EST
    So Obama knew - without any doubt what so ever -there were no WMD in Iraq, but he did not know about what Wright was speaking in his own church for twenty years?

    Forget about that one!

    from:    Hillaryis44.com

    That Obama supporter on Abrams just said (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:09:27 PM EST
    if we are going to question Obama's relationship with Wright, we need to look at Hillary's relationship with Bill C.

    Say what? (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by Lil on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:16:13 PM EST
    It really is silly season. Everybody's making me laugh tonight. some very funny, snarky posts.

    Parent
    She was dead serious. Crazy stuff. (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:18:19 PM EST
    another false analogy by Obama crowd (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by angie on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:19:30 PM EST
    Don't they teach logic anymore to the younguns? I'm not going to go through the litany of unadulterated cr@p spewed by Wright, but suffice it to say you can't analogize them to any views held by Bill Clinton.

    Parent
    That's kind of what Abrams said to her. (none / 0) (#86)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:22:14 PM EST
    She (Nancy Giles) said we aren't allowed to mention Monica Lewinsky while she mentions Monica Lewinsky.

    Parent
    They're just mad (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by eleanora on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:28:05 PM EST
    because they mention her all the time, but no one cares anymore. That scandal is so last century.

    Parent
    I'm sure that like any couple (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:27:15 PM EST
    married that long, they listen to each other at least as closely as Obama listened to his pastor for 20 years.

    Parent
    Obama supporter went on to say, about Monica (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:29:14 PM EST
    Lewinsky, that Obama is to Wright and Hillary is to Monica Lewinsky!!!!

    Honest!

    So, I'm going: No relationship with Monica, no 20 year relationship with Monica, no mentoring with Monica (either way), no book titles from Monica, no...you get the idea.

    What a stupid equivalency to make. The Obama supporter is going to be very embarrassed.

    Parent

    As bad as Obama's comparison of (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:04:18 PM EST
    his relationship with Wright to his relationship with Tom Coburn during the debate, and his comparison of Wright to his grandma.

    I'm guessing these people got an awful score on that 'X is to Y as A is to __'  part of the SAT.

    Parent

    AS Hillary is to Monica. (none / 0) (#111)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:47:50 PM EST
    Proofreading can be a good thing.

    Parent
    but but but, don't we already (none / 0) (#96)
    by RalphB on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:32:20 PM EST
    know more than we want?  :-)

    Parent
    Passing the bar is a BIG achievement (5.00 / 5) (#82)
    by downtownted on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:18:28 PM EST
    Sometimes we belittle the really important things. This is one of the biggies. Congratulations and lift high our glasses to the TL Kid.

    I missed the O Reilly interview (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:33:00 PM EST
    but I was just reading the local paper.  If you go to NYTimes.com, Barack Obama's conference yesterday takes up at least 4 pages, probably (I didn't print it out).  We get it in three measly paragraphs from McClatchy.  Here's a sample:

    "On Tuesday, the Illinois senator used words such as 'divisive and destructive,' 'ridiculous,' 'outrageous' and 'wrong' to describe the words of Wright, a man who was Obama's pastor for two decades.  Obama also said he was 'particularly angered' by Wright saying that Obama's denunciation of some of Wright's earlier remarks was only political posturing."

    That's the last paragraph.  That's one of the main reasons IMO that the news media is terrible - they sum up events like 5th graders.  Basically, the reporter above looked over all Obama said and selected the adjectives.  Nicely done.  It's like turning a Van Gogh into a rusty hinge.

    When I saw Hillary in Wilmington, I saw overall a good speech.  I heard her challenge Obama goodnaturedly to a debate in a flatbed truck.  The next day?  The media tells us "Desperate for Debate, Clinton Suggests One On "Back Of Flat Bed Truck."  Thank you, CBS News.  The only people desperate at that rally were the press lunging for headlines.  Seriously - the most pathetic sight at any politicaly rally is the blank looking press, waiting for a shepherd, scratching their heads, yearning for photos, etc.  These people have no value.  I don't know how BTD measures the lasting goodwill of these people for Obama (there may be a way), but I for one have no respect for them.  They stroll into the scene after hundreds or thousands wait for hours, then act bored as they compare it to what they've already read.  

    Also, there's a show called "Farmer Wants a Wife?"

    View The Video On NoQuarter (none / 0) (#206)
    by flashman on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:13:43 AM EST
    Oops, I mean Taylor Marsh (none / 0) (#207)
    by flashman on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:14:23 AM EST
    So, from what I've read (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by NJDem on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:36:54 PM EST
    it seems that the only two Dems to really take on Fox have been Bill and Hillary Clinton.

    MMmmm.........

    Went to TPM--very heavily covering the NC robot (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:44:56 PM EST
    call "scandal." They are going to get to the bottom of this dangerous progressive GOTV organization, by gum!

    Why does it not surprise me that progressive blogger Josh Marshall did not know anything about WVWV (Women's Voices. Women Vote)?

    From an article in Feb. mentioned in Page Gardener's HuffPo explanation piece, a NC paper wrote about increased voter registration:

    http://www.dailysoutherner.com/archivesearch/local_story_060111448.html

    "We received more than 100 cards Wednesday, and other days, as well," said Ethel Bryant, who has worked in the office for more than 14 years. "Rocky Mount said they received more than 300. We thought most people in our area were registered and have been surprised to receive so many new registration cards."

    The voter's registration cards have been sent out by the Voter Participation Center, an arm of Women's Voices, Women's Vote, a non-profit organization, based in Washington, D.C., whose goal is to help single women, those polled least-likely to vote, to register.

    "We found there were 570,000 unmarried women in North Carolina, who are not registered to vote," said Sarah Johnson, communications director. "These are women of all ages, widowed, divorced and those who have never been married. These women, who make up approximately 26 percent of the voter base, are usually extremely busy and under-represented. Our goal is to help them by sending them an application to register to vote, which would make it easier then, to vote on election day.

    "We are non-partisan, so we don't care who they vote for, just so they vote."

    Bryant agreed the method seems to be working.

    "They send out the voter's applications in a pre-packaged envelope with postage paid," she said. "Many are female and from rural areas, where it is harder to run out and get a stamp to post a letter. Since it doesn't need a stamp, they are able to drop it right in the mail."

    Josh -- they were doing this in February, maybe earlier! A bit early to mess up the primary, right?

    Of course, they also did this in '04....

    Yep! after skewering Hillary all day (5.00 / 4) (#113)
    by Josey on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:00:21 PM EST
    we now learn there's an Obama supporter on the board of the Women's Voices Women's Vote!

    http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/30/17111/6808

    So - apparently, Obama is responsible for suppressing women's votes!!
    Be sure to look for that FP on DK to correct the earlier Hillary-hate piece.


    Parent

    There's some screaming going on at MyDD (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:07:40 PM EST
    about an insider advantage poll in NC that shows HIllary ahead.

    I don't believe it for two reasons: 1. Obama will win NC, period; 2. Insider Advantage showed Mississippi closing. . .and it didn't.

    Meanwhile, Top Chef is fun.

    Noquarter says there is a FOX poll (none / 0) (#117)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:09:56 PM EST
    showing Hillary ahead in NC.
    Is that the same poll?

    Parent
    I read that it was announced on Fox (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:13:26 PM EST
    but that it's actually an Insider Advantage poll.

    I also read that it shows HIllary getting 20% of the AA vote. I don't believe that for a second.

    Parent

    Not only 20% going to Clinton. . . (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:40:56 PM EST
    but 15% undecided.  Only 64% of African American votes going to Obama.  Not credible on the face of it.

    Parent
    hmm... 20% seems possible to me. (none / 0) (#131)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:20:35 PM EST
    We'll see.

    Parent
    OK, (none / 0) (#140)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:31:30 PM EST
    crosstabs here.

    I'm not buying it.

    Parent

    the guy who did that poll (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by angie on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:48:18 PM EST
    said he thought it would not shake out that way and admitted their AA count wasn't good -- I wanted to ask him why the heck did he even do it them. pfft. But, he did predict an Obama win by less then what was previously expected, for what it's worth.

    Parent
    Yeah, really (none / 0) (#154)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:51:30 PM EST
    If you know your poll is junk, don't release it.

    Parent
    I'm an optimist. (none / 0) (#141)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:34:10 PM EST
    Actually I have no idea what to expect.
    If anything would change that demographic, Wright might, but I don't know it would help Hillary.

    Parent
    I'm a pessimist (none / 0) (#146)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:40:00 PM EST
    it means that I'm rarely caught disappointed!

    Parent
    But that also means (none / 0) (#157)
    by ahazydelirium on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:57:42 PM EST
    you don't have the energizing build-up that transforms a good moment into an absolutely fabulous moment!

    Parent
    crosstabs (none / 0) (#158)
    by RalphB on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:58:28 PM EST
    show Obama leading Hillary 2-1 with Hispanics.  duh?  even though sample size is so small it's meaningless.

    Women are also underrepresented at 53%, if you go by turnout in most other states.


    Parent

    The poll is whack (none / 0) (#160)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:00:42 PM EST
    Anyone watching Boston Legal? (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by magisterludi on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:11:20 PM EST
    It's about the DNC.

    They're suing the DNC over the nomination process! I'm almost afraid to watch. Candace Bergen's character initiates the suit.

    This is unpossible (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by daryl herbert on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:17:20 PM EST
    If Fox is the worst news network ever, how come they have some of the best journalism?

    What other network has had such a great interview with Clinton?

    Can you name one other network where you could even imagine to see such a great back and forth?

    Has Sen. Obama given a more important interview than the one with Chris Wallace?  We learned quite a bit about him from that (i.e., how quickly he folds in the face of Republican questioning).

    What other network has had such a great interview with Obama?

    ABCNNMSNBCBS is just four different ways to spell Chris Matthews.

    That was a great interview (none / 0) (#128)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:19:40 PM EST
    but why?  Because Hillary held her own and then some.  She is just incredible.

    Parent
    just watched the interview (none / 0) (#145)
    by proudliberaldem on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:39:49 PM EST
    amazing.  she was just amazing, poised, tough, funny quick on her feet.  how could anyone watch that and not want her to be president?

    Parent
    Ever hear of PBS? (none / 0) (#202)
    by kdog on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:21:29 AM EST
    The only station I've ever seen to air a political or newsworthy interview.

    Parent
    NY Post Source: Wright "betrayed" (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Exeter on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:29:17 PM EST
    Fred Dicker story posted a few hours ago NY Post website:
    "After 20 years of loving Barack like he was a member of his own family, for Jeremiah to see Barack saying over and over that he didn't know about Jeremiah's views during those years, that he wasn't familiar with what Jeremiah had said, that he may have missed church on this day or that and didn't hear what Jeremiah said, this is seen by Jeremiah as nonsense and betrayal," said the source, who has deep roots in Wright's Chicago community and is familiar with his thinking on the matter.


    The Black Agenda Report Has An Article Titled (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:56:27 PM EST
    Obama's `Race Neutral' Strategy Unravels of its Own Contradictions is an interesting read on Obama's throwing Wright under the bus. The comments also show a wide range of opinions on how the AA community may be reacting to disavowal  of Rev. Wright.    

    Parent
    how come... (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by white n az on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:35:17 PM EST
    nobody is talking about this detail from yesterday's Survey USA NC Poll...

    Since January, Clinton had led among Carolina whites by 14, 19, 17, 22 and 23 points. But today, suddenly: 31.

    That is an incredible shift in numbers...Hillary is leading Obama on white voters 61% to 30%

    That is the most significant detail that seems to be completely overlooked and is as indicative of Obama's not being electable than any other.

    This was from 4/26 through 4/28 so it did not factor in 2 of the 3 Wright appearances and of course Obama's response to them.

    The guy has tanked big time and if he can't do better than 30% of the white voters in NC, super delegates would have to be insane to go with him.

    I believe that exact issue. . . (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:37:33 PM EST
    was the subject of one of BTDs front page posts.

    Parent
    Seriously (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:41:34 PM EST
    Nobody was talking about it. . .except everyone here.

    Parent
    ahh... (none / 0) (#182)
    by white n az on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:38:45 PM EST
    yesterday morning - while I was busy working...

    That is absolutely incredible though...61 - 30

    Their Indiana poll showed Obama polling 39% and I think he was 36% of the white vote in PA.

    30% is a complete failure and is so statistically significant that it can't be overlooked.

    I'm sorry I missed the discussion on that.

    Parent

    Gallup daily tracking 4/27-29/08 (none / 0) (#173)
    by felizarte on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:22:14 PM EST
    has Clinton 47; Obama 46

    Parent
    Where? (none / 0) (#175)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:28:52 PM EST
    NC, or national?  Linky?

    Parent
    Here! here! (none / 0) (#197)
    by felizarte on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:11:23 AM EST
    Boston Legal is about Clinton, Obama, delegates (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by Lysis on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:46:53 PM EST
    It's hilarious.  I suggest tuning in.  Shirley, the lawyer played by Candice Bergen, is suing her nephew because he's a pledged delegate planning on voting for Obama, though Clinton won his district and state.  Lots of humor for both sides in this one!

    David Kelley did a number (none / 0) (#168)
    by magisterludi on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:13:24 PM EST
    on the stereotypical Obama supporter. Snidey-butt, indeed!

    And I'm sure Howard Dean and the gang won't be happy.

    Parent

    Gov. Easley on Charlie Rose tonight said it (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:38:11 PM EST
    was interesting that when people talk about Obama can do, it almost always ends in November (he can bring youth and indepdents to him in the election), but when they talk about Clinton it's about what she'll do as president.

    Which reflects her emphasis on concrete proposals.

    Debate (none / 0) (#4)
    by Sunshine on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:12:23 PM EST
    Hillary doesn't have to have Obama to debate with, she's doing OK with O'Reily....

    You're right! (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by MMW on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:22:59 PM EST
    She's doing fantastically. She's more than keeping up with him, dare I say, she's a perfect foil for him. She's giving as good as he's trying to give. He's trying but she keeps calling him out on his inaccuracies. Her grasp of history and info is amazing. I think she has surprised to him. He will never admit it, but I think she got to him. She'll gain among voters / viewers from this.

    Parent
    I posted on the other thread (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by angie on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:26:24 PM EST
    Memo to Obama: this is how you "take on Fox."
    She did great -- could not have been better.  She stood her ground and didn't grovel to the Republicans.

    Parent
    She not only knows the policy and the history (5.00 / 4) (#24)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:29:53 PM EST
    she always has it right at the tip of her tongue. Politics comes naturally to her, and she would do well in a parliament.

    Parent
    I agree with you and Angie (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by MMW on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:35:27 PM EST
    It's surprising, but she's so animated and knowledgeable she makes it exciting.

    Admittedly, I have not watched all her interviews, but this one is great. I think she feels more free to spar with O'Reilly, because it's Fox and it's not the cautious (let's make sure we don't upset the Democrat, if it's CNN, or NBC, etc).

    She looked great not just physically, but the vibe was there (I can't find the words I want to use).

    Parent

    "poised" is what I thought (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by angie on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:41:22 PM EST
    as the campaign goes on, she just gets better and better -- she was relaxed, humorous, smart, assertive (but not aggressive) and showed she can handle "gotcha" questions gracefully. Poised to be President.

    Parent
    I think you might be right on that! (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by MMW on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:45:59 PM EST
    She surprised me, which is weird, since I'm totally in the tank for her.

    You know - I'd have a beer with her (with chips and salsa).

    Parent

    I'd share an arugula salad ;-) (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:46:41 PM EST
    And not taking any crap. (none / 0) (#71)
    by Lil on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:05:30 PM EST
    at one point (none / 0) (#31)
    by kempis on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:31:01 PM EST
    I thought I saw fear in his eyes.

    :)

    Parent

    Fear followed by admiration... (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by lookoverthere on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:38:33 PM EST
    And look at that: Cruella Darth Voldemort is charming.

    Parent
    true! :) (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by kempis on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:00:53 PM EST

    There's a real contrast between her resilient cheeriness and Obama's poutyness.

    And O'Reilly's inflamed hemorrhoidalness.

    Parent

    LOL How did the hooded spotted puppy pantsuit look (none / 0) (#69)
    by Ellie on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:02:22 PM EST
    Or did she go with the black robe, light saber and breath amplifying dark helmet?

    Parent
    I listenen to a variety of talk radio (none / 0) (#16)
    by kenosharick on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:24:39 PM EST
    while in he car today- and rev. wright was all people were talking about. Black radio was defending him and Barack at the same time. Callers kept ranting about the raw deal he has gotten in the media, while they have been great to Hillary- I was stunned: what media are they talking about? Right-wing radio was slamming him with the same question as I have for Obama: Why was everything wright has said for 20 years ok, and suddenly yesterday after saying NOTHING NEW the man is practically the devil himself?

    Lucky for those callers who want to defend... (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:30:14 PM EST
    ...both Wright and Obama that they've got Hillary to blame. Otherwise they might actually have to apply reason and logic to the situation.

    Parent
    How do I even talk to people like this? (none / 0) (#106)
    by rockinrocknroll on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:40:07 PM EST
    That's sort of what I was coming in to ask. Look at this stuff!! What can one even say to all of that? They (and those people calling in to the radio) seem so out of touch to me. I don't get it.

    And that concern troll Nancy Giles was just on Dan Abrams hawking that same talking point that no one criticizes Hillary for her association with Bill. !!!! On what planet?! Do they have amnesia or do they expect US to?

    Parent

    Where did they get these two Obama (none / 0) (#21)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:27:36 PM EST
    supporters? They actually praised her performance.

    Well, they're Obama supporters (5.00 / 6) (#22)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:28:44 PM EST
    the way Democrats on Fox are usually "Democrats."

    Parent
    lol, that's what I was thinking. (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:30:14 PM EST
    I switched channels (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by angie on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:30:43 PM EST
    after Hillary was done -- I mean, I'll take one for the team, but there is only so much O'Reilly I can stomach.  Anywho, if that is what the Obama supporters are saying, then God bless them -- because it is the truth -- she kicked a$$. No two ways about it.

    Parent
    I've seen them both before (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:31:52 PM EST
    but I don't recall if they were this positive about her.

    Lordy, that was fun.

    Parent

    Now O'reilly has dick morris on (none / 0) (#33)
    by felizarte on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:33:39 PM EST
    and he is commenting on the Wright issue; admitting that it has an effect on Obama but says it doesn't matter anyway because the democratic primary is over and Obama will be the opponent of McCain.

    It's all hype waaaa (none / 0) (#40)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:36:49 PM EST
    It doesn't matter if she wins the next two because (tsk, head shake, smirk) it's all over....

    Can I reach through the tv and smack him?  Change channel, stop looking......

    Parent

    Dick Morris (none / 0) (#52)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:46:28 PM EST
    is insane.  He's even too nutty for O'Reilly.  I wish they'd dump him b/c he has zero credibility.  I'd rather watch Rove or Gingrich.  

    Parent
    I always expect to see (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by kempis on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:04:10 PM EST
    Morris's forked tongue dart out of his mouth. One day, he's going to let his guard down and it's going to happen right there on Fox.

    I bet he leaves a slimy trail behind him when he moves.

    shudder

    Parent

    This made me laugh out loud... (none / 0) (#124)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:16:37 PM EST
    Thank you so much. That was the best laugh of the day.

    Parent
    Bill O has more stuff on Wright?! (none / 0) (#34)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:34:17 PM EST
    Hmmm, tomorrow night will be interesting.

    I caught that too (none / 0) (#44)
    by daria g on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:41:21 PM EST
    He mentioned twice.. first, tomorrow he has more stuff and second, broadly hinted at other things that'll come out?

    I'm just wondering.. what does Fox have their hands on as far as Obama/Wright connections?  Footage of him in church during any particular sermon?  I honestly don't know - I don't watch Fox but the few times I have heard about coverage of this (when Obama did interviews just after the first blow up) they seemed to hint at more info to come.  Hmm.

    Also, I def recommend turning off Dennis Miller.  Good lord, is he drunk?

    Parent

    drunk on his own ego n/t (none / 0) (#46)
    by angie on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:42:33 PM EST
    He's lying (none / 0) (#72)
    by Lil on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:08:23 PM EST
    He's probably got nothing that he'll try to make something out of.

    Parent
    After today (none / 0) (#35)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:35:23 PM EST
    I have a new business venture to try:

    Fashionable tin foil hats.  

    They'll of course, be fashionable.  However, I'll advertise that they block evil Hillary Clinton rays.  I'll photoshop one onto Reverend Wright's head and then simulate that with the new tin foil hat, he only says Obama-friendly campaign.  

    I'll also mention that the hats block all robocalls unless they're definitely pro-Obama and not about silly things like attempting (albeit a little incompetently) to increase voter registration.

    Do you think my idea has a fighting chance?

    You didn't get the OKosoramamemo? (5.00 / 4) (#63)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:55:28 PM EST
    Wright doesn't need a tin foil hat to ward off evil Hillary rays, because Wright is for Hillary.  

    That's what was behind his own evil performance -- in which he repeated exactly what he has said before, but this time in front of the National Press Club and us all on Monday.  

    Got that?  I know it's so, because I saw it at the Big Orangobamaramadamalamadingdong place.  Now I think I have to go hit my head on my desk, 'scuse me.

    Oh, but first, allow me to point out, however,  that  apparently Wright still wasn't for Hillary on Sunday, when he repeated exactly what he has said before, but to the NAACP.  So Obama didn't reject and denounce that, although it was the same stuff.  

    Now I need to go hit my head on my desk twice, the second time for the media who have not managed to point that out, what with all the demands on their time to report that, um, fires burn stuff, and winds knock stuff down.


    Parent

    Would a (none / 0) (#127)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:17:29 PM EST
    fashionable tinfoil hat change your outlook on things? ? ;-).

    Parent
    Would a (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:12:29 PM EST
    fashionable tinfoil hat help to cushion my head when it hits the furniture repeatedly?  And still be fashionable, if said hat gets a wee bit bashed up?  With the insanity I'm seeing these days, it may be bashed up a lot.  

    Parent
    Um, whoops (none / 0) (#39)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:36:25 PM EST
    I meant to say, "he says only Obama-campaign friendly things."

    Must. have. dinner.

    Parent

    Sorry, tin foil hats don't work. (none / 0) (#135)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:23:34 PM EST
    Some MIT engineering students did an experiment a few years ago. In fact, tin foil hats IMPROVE reception. So, if I were to put on a tinfoil hat, I'd say that the government is promulgating some disinformation on the subject!

    Parent
    O'Reilly is the voice of reason (none / 0) (#37)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:35:30 PM EST
    compared to Dick Morris, who is batsh*t insane.

    Dennis Miller is far worse than Morris. (none / 0) (#54)
    by felizarte on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:47:16 PM EST
    But in that segment, O'reilly said that Barack may be the next one to come on his show because if he refuses, he will certainly look like the ---whatever; and O'reilly and Dennis miller will invite Wright for lunch for a conversation fairly soon.  Oh boy!

    Parent
    this is the first time (none / 0) (#57)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:51:28 PM EST
    I've seen Miller's commentary.  He's completely wacked out.  If Fox wants to have journalistic credibility, they need to get rid of Miller and Morris, stat.  I have no problem with Rove and Gingrich - loathsome as they are, they are capable of giving impartial commentary.  Miller and Morris are just plain nuts.

    Parent
    I don't believe (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by standingup on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:15:04 PM EST
    journalistic credibility has ever been a goal for Fox.  Any network that goes to court for their right to lie has something else in mind.

    Parent
    WTF is up with Dennis Miller? (none / 0) (#49)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:44:53 PM EST
    Is he high?

    I think he is trying hard to be a pundit (none / 0) (#56)
    by felizarte on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:48:57 PM EST
    but he just does not have sufficient grasp of politics.  He may think he could fake it by being so anti-Hillary.

    Parent
    I still think he's on drugs! (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:52:31 PM EST
    What an idiot.

    Parent
    Hey.... (none / 0) (#203)
    by kdog on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:23:34 AM EST
    I'm usually on drugs, and I resent the comparison:)

    Parent
    Liberty Seven Case (none / 0) (#59)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:53:04 PM EST
    So the government is going to try the Liberty Seven... a third time. They've already spent $8 million dollars trying to save face on this case. I've taken this to heart since I'm going to go into counter-terrorism studies, hopefully with the Dept. of Defense, CIA, FBI, some government agency--and I gotta say, the US Gov't needs to let this one go. They were not associated with al-Qaeda, no matter how much they wanted to be. al-Qaeda's not that stupid, and there's absolutely zero evidence for it. The longer this goes on, the stupider we look. Which can be said about the "war on terror" (what a stupid term) as a whole.

    This is a sad moment is DOJ history -- (none / 0) (#174)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:24:12 PM EST
    i feel so sorry for those deluded guys.

    Parent
    I gotta ask.... (none / 0) (#204)
    by kdog on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:28:11 AM EST
    since I agree with your post, why in hell would you wanna join the DOD, CIA, FBI?

    With all do respect, have you no sense of decency?  If I wanted to do something to counter terrorism, I'd join Amnesty International or something.

    Parent

    CNN has Michelle Obama & Caroline Kennedy (none / 0) (#61)
    by feet on earth on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:54:14 PM EST
    at 10:00 pm.
    I don't like what she said last year to women voters about "role modeling families ... "if you can run your house you cannot run the White House"
    This disqualified every woman who does not have a picture perfect  family like hers to ever think she can be in the WH, her own mother in-law included.  Grr...

    Contrast the Doublespeak (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by Jane in CA on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:28:32 PM EST
    from Michele Obama and Caroline Kennedy with Hillary Clinton's clear grasp of, passion for, and concise articulation of the issues.

    Michele Obama, when asked about Wright, tried to take the conversation back to the "great" speech on race that Obama gave when the Wright issue first came up. After that, she simply refused to discuss the issue.

    Caroline Kennedy voiced the same formless platitudes that we hear from all the Obama supporters; she said nothing substantive about Obama's position on the issues, or why she supports him, other then to -- once again -- compare him to her late father, and the kind of support that her father engendered. She did say something about how Obama's background would make him supportive of women's issues.  I thought she might talk about political stances he had taken, or legislation he had sponsored that would support her contention, but it seems that she was referring to his upbringing.

    CK's failure to discuss the real issues in any substantive manner is a great disappointment to me. I have lost respect for her -- not because she supports Obama, but because she insults my intelligence by expecting me to support her candidate for no evident reason other than the fact that he "reminds her of her father." I had considered her as a person of greater integrity than her recent words and actions would indicate.

    Parent

    Whoops (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Jane in CA on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:30:58 PM EST
    Final sentence should be "I had considered her a person of greater intellectual integrity than her recent words and actions would indicate."

    Parent
    Glad you watched, but (none / 0) (#189)
    by eleanora on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:48:57 PM EST
    I'm sorry to hear that. I really loved her books on the Bill of Rights and the right to privacy. Seems like she'd be more concerned about accomplishments and policy than speeches, especially when Senator Obama hasn't been too clear on his support for Roe v Wade and privacy rights.

    Parent
    McCain presidency (none / 0) (#64)
    by magster on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:57:36 PM EST
    Thank God for the open thread (none / 0) (#68)
    by Lil on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:02:02 PM EST
    I was so nervous for her on O'Reilly. He is just such a bully overtalking, etc. She more than held her own! Very impressed. His whole game is, "Gotcha" and she managed to fend it off and still make some good points of her own. Now, I'd like to see Obama on the show.

    Btw (none / 0) (#77)
    by Lil on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:12:55 PM EST
    I meant to add congrats to you and your son, Jeralyn. When I read your post earlier today, I felt a little choke. Identified with mom's pride and hope.

    Parent
    Michael Moore is bushing Hillary on Larry King (none / 0) (#73)
    by feet on earth on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:09:03 PM EST
    Live.  Grr...

    in the African American community (none / 0) (#85)
    by Josey on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:21:11 PM EST
    what does "playing the dozens" mean?


    I heard someone (none / 0) (#99)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:33:11 PM EST
    maybe (KO) say that it's a nasty game of "your mother is so.." ad nauseum.

    Parent
    Insult trading, often in rhyme, esp'ly about the (none / 0) (#100)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:34:15 PM EST
    other person's mother or sister. But mostly "yo mama" kind of thing.

    Can sometimes be very witty, but can also get into very angry reactions.

    Parent

    from the intertubes (none / 0) (#101)
    by ding7777 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:35:35 PM EST
    The audacity of Bill Cosby's black conservatism (none / 0) (#87)
    by jerry on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:25:07 PM EST
    `This Is How We Lost to the White Man'

    A long, but really interesting article about Bill Cosby and discussing his views, in contrast to Eric Dysons's, and in a historical context.

    I think Cosby is a hero, and I think that "progressive liberals" should understand what he has to say with respect to race and gender issues.  And especially with respect to kneejerk, empty suit, empty gesture liberal cliches.

    About three weeks ago, Amanda Marcotte was called out as a racist by a feminist woman of color.  (And then it happened again last week over a different issue.)  I disagree with Marcotte much of the time, but in this case, I think she was actually correct on the facts.  I think an analysis of what Amanda said, what Twisty Faster said, what Hugh Schwyzer and Barry Deutsch said, and what many of the other bloggers said in opposition is well worth exploring.

    Because almost everyone was wrong.  It was very cool that way.  Lots of people saying Amanda had all of this white privilege and had stolen material.  Lots of people saying there is no such thing as white privilege.  Lots of people realizing, OMG, I am an oppressor white woman.  Lots of flame and empty gesture.  And very little accomplished.

    Jeff Goldstein, who I never thought I would ever mention in any way approvingly discussed this event, and was promptly called a racist pig and rape apologist for it.

    Dennis the Peasant though, showing the stopped clocks theorem, analyzed it down to a tee.  What this adventure showed, and what Twisty Faster eventually claimed was that:

    So there you have it. White Privilege was to blame... No wonder Amanda Marcotte thinks Free Will is overrated. If you buy into the above flapdoodle, there is no place for such a thing: You're not racist because of the content of your character, you're racist because of the color of your skin! Male Privilege works the same way. You're not a misogynist because you act like a misogynist, you're a misogynist because you're male!  (Read his whole post.)

    Basically, I think the oppression olympics and identity politics that we progressive liberals love to play, and give a wink and a nod to, are counterproductive, and often times sexist and racist in their own right.

    Gotta pick up my girl, her swim lesson just ended.  Read the Cosby piece.  Really interesting.

    Thanks for the reply, too bad it wasn't a response (none / 0) (#198)
    by jerry on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:15:53 AM EST
    a person of color, I wasn't offended by Amandas' inadvertent 'offense' against WOC.

    There were many many feminist bloggers of color absolutely appalled with Amanda.  And many many feminist bloggers of "non color" upset with Amanda too.  That you weren't doesn't really address any of the issues I was referring too.

    I'm sorry that she's driven your friend the peasant mad(judging by the number of obsessive posts he's written about her lately) but his problem is treatable with the right kind of psychotropic and a caring therapist.

    And if you read you would see that neither Jeff nor Dennis are my friends, but since I agree with them here, I think it's incredibly important for you to do the typical thing and claim that I am their friend and presumably agree with everything they have to say.

    Because having nuanced views and agreeing with somethings people have to say and not with others is just too hard to smear and lessen and make ignorable.

    In the same vein as your logic takes us, let us never forget 7/20/93.

    I do agree just isn't fair that she's not homeless given all the damage she's done to brave strong men such as dennis, yourself, and Jeff Goldstein(or Mr. C-S)  :>)

    Right, and I have said she should be homeless.  Apart from the fact you support her and disagree with me, have you actually addressed ANY of the issues I brought up?  No, but don't let that stop you.  Your tactic is frequently the tactic that many people take.  Shout loudly and you can drown out the dissenting voices.

    However, if you want to talk about damage, we can discuss the many people that have said that Amanda twisted their words and lied about.  And that includes people of color, transgendered people, gay people, lesbian people, feminist people, left, right, and libertarian people, and even white and straight people.  If that's the sort of dialogue you support, well, more power to you.  But that's not my idea of a progressive liberal conversation.

    Parent

    Bad at taking orders... (none / 0) (#102)
    by joc on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:35:47 PM EST
    Boston Legal takes on Dem delegates (none / 0) (#115)
    by Josey on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:05:32 PM EST
    LOL

    This is gonna be something... (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by magisterludi on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:15:27 PM EST
    David E Kelley can be surprising.

    Parent
    I'm Wolf Blitzkreig (none / 0) (#134)
    by mulletov cocktails on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:23:07 PM EST
    Best political news team EVER assembled....

    Parent
    The Dean Scream (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by magisterludi on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:38:56 PM EST
    back on prime time.

    Parent
    Gas tax (none / 0) (#120)
    by s5 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:14:11 PM EST
    I'm kinda glad the silly gas tax holiday issue came up. It's the first time in months that anyone has been talking about actual policy in this election. The last policy debate we had was over health insurance mandates, and since then, it's been nothing but Reverend Wright, Bosnia sniper fan fiction, and endless horserace analysis and superdelegate speculation. yaaawwwwnnnn. At least people are finally talking about policy again, even though the policy up for consideration is the stupidest idea on the planet. But when it comes to our broken discourse, I'll take whatever I can get.

    It's a regressive tax (none / 0) (#147)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:40:29 PM EST
    Actually.


    Parent
    Tell the working slob.... (none / 0) (#205)
    by kdog on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:57:17 AM EST
    getting creamed at the pump it's such a stupid idea.  Or the independent trucker.

    My company uses a small independent trucker for local delieveries...he had no choice to raise his rates so much we might have to go back to a corporate LTL carrier for our local deliveries.  And this poor slob might be outta business.  Tell him it's stupid as he worries about losing his company, and maybe his house.

    Overtaxing people is what is stupid...especially overtaxing the working poor.  And for all the talk about "interstate maintenance" that the tax is supposed to be covering, you should see the state of some of the interstates by me...pothole city.  The gas tax is probably just another con, like lotto paying for schools.  It should be rescinded, perhaps permanently.

    But yeah...its nice to discuss an issue again:)  I was beginning to think Rev. Wright set gas and food prices...lol.

     

    Parent

    Gingrich advice to Obama (none / 0) (#123)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:15:58 PM EST
    he advises Obama to do 3 or 4 attack commercials (he's got the money) on Clinton and start a fight.  Make her look bad and get off Wright.

    He says if Obama wins both NC/IN that the Dem party has to give the nom to Obama.  He also said the Dems get together, sing a song and go right over the cliff (referencing Dukakis and Mondale)... it was pretty funny.

    Obama (none / 0) (#191)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:54:37 PM EST
    can't do attack ads. He's either too invested in being "positive" or too wimpy. He did attack ads in PA and they didn't work. Why would they work in NC or IN? Newt is just trying to make conversation here.

    Parent
    Anyone see that Fox News has (none / 0) (#125)
    by Anne on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:16:57 PM EST
    Hillary up 46-44 in NC?

    Saw it over at NO Quarter, which has Part I of the Clinton interview.

    Had to blink twice to make sure I saw the names and the numbers right.

    Didn't go look at anything further on it and not sure I trust it, but the headlines are going to be killer.

    I think it was 44-42 for Hillary (none / 0) (#129)
    by ChuckieTomato on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:20:00 PM EST
    Not credible and bad for expectations (none / 0) (#130)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:20:29 PM EST
    It is from (none / 0) (#136)
    by Coldblue on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:27:45 PM EST
    Insider Advantage.

    Not overly credible, imho

    Parent

    Yes but (none / 0) (#150)
    by ChuckieTomato on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:41:32 PM EST
    the undecided vote was 14 percent. that's huge because Hillary has been winning them going away. she could win this

    Parent
    PEOPLE!!! (none / 0) (#132)
    by magisterludi on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:21:32 PM EST
    YOU HAVE GOT TO TURN ON BOSTON LEGAL!

    They are eviscerating the DNC (so far).

    Don't Have A TV (none / 0) (#163)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:10:19 PM EST
    Please give some details on what they are saying about the DNC.

    Parent
    Does ABC show this on the web? (none / 0) (#177)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:33:36 PM EST
    Everyone took a few hits tonight! (none / 0) (#188)
    by Lil on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:47:12 PM EST
    I laughed through the whole thing except when I was wincing at the Hillary jabs.

    Parent
    Ghost Hunters are at the Allegheny (none / 0) (#164)
    by kredwyn on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:10:31 PM EST
    Asylum tonight. Charles Manson staid there for a while.

    This is really gonna be creepy. But the building looks way cool.

    Just got back and turned on O'Reilly (none / 0) (#166)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:12:34 PM EST
    Hillary did a great job on oil prices and health care. Now I'm torn, I want to see boston legal too.

    Congratulations, Nic! (none / 0) (#167)
    by DeborahNC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:13:04 PM EST
    Wishing you continued success in the future.

    Greta on FOX (none / 0) (#169)
    by miriam on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:16:55 PM EST
    Brought up the subject (first time I've seen it mentioned on msm) of the Republican ad featuring Wright's famous "God damn America" speech as used against two N.C. Democratic candidates who have endorsed Obama.  She wondered what any of the Democratic super delegates who would be running in November thought of this, since it could also be used against them.  Would they rethink their Obama endorsements?  Interesting question, yes?  

    I'm wondering (none / 0) (#194)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:57:20 PM EST
    if the candidates are going to reply. Or have replied. Do you know? I guess in those situations it could be worse to try to defend your choice of picking Obama.

    Parent
    Hey, did Bob Johnson get banned from MYDD? (none / 0) (#170)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:17:28 PM EST
    Isn't his username BobJohnson?

    Yes.... (none / 0) (#171)
    by miriam on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:20:04 PM EST
    If true (He's been banned) that would a worthy accomplishment.  His hatred of Hillary is downright pathological.

    Parent
    Jerome has new rules up (almost (none / 0) (#172)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:21:10 PM EST
    all of which BJ violates in every diary).
    There were two of his diaries up earlier today, no w none, and I can't find the userid.

    Parent
    No way... (none / 0) (#179)
    by kredwyn on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:37:22 PM EST
    whoa...this is getting really crazy.

    Parent
    I could be wrong. What's his username? (none / 0) (#181)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:38:18 PM EST
    I thought it was bobjohnson.
    mydd.com/user/bobjohnson, right?

    Parent
    It would be (none / 0) (#183)
    by kredwyn on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:43:05 PM EST
    bobjohnson or bob johnson.

    Parent
    oh well, out of luck. (none / 0) (#184)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:44:45 PM EST
    It's Bob Johnson, with the space.
    I was wondering, because he got warned by Jerome yesterday.

    Parent
    Bob Johnson (none / 0) (#185)
    by kredwyn on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:45:07 PM EST
    Jerome has a post up now (none / 0) (#187)
    by RalphB on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:47:11 PM EST
    about banning some "over the top" Obama supporters today.  He must have bought it.


    Parent
    can you be banned and still have your (none / 0) (#190)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:52:11 PM EST
    diaries up?

    Parent
    Beats me. I don't have a clue. (none / 0) (#192)
    by RalphB on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:55:48 PM EST
    Charlotte Observer (none / 0) (#176)
    by eleanora on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:32:04 PM EST
    had an interesting article on Hillary campaigning today in NC, making speeches about policy-- "everything from health care to gas prices to ending the Iraq war." Apparently the Observer did a poll that had 20% of Clinton voters going to McCain if Obama is the nominee vs. 13% of Obama voters if Clinton gets it. According to "political analyst" Charlie Cook,

    ""My hunch is that Clinton's supporters would be upset with an Obama nomination for a few weeks but would eventually get over it," he said. "I am not sure that's the case in the highly unlikely event of Clinton beating out Obama. Among the younger, newer voters and in the African American community, I'm not sure all of them would get over it."

    I vote D no matter what, but I hope the party is listening to what the voters are saying and not the analysts. I'm having a harder time talking Clinton voters into even looking at Obama than talking undecideds into looking at Clinton.

    Update on NM CD--2.... (none / 0) (#178)
    by SunnyLC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:34:49 PM EST
    NM CD-02 Update: Teague's opponent "donates $47.50 to himself"....
    http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/

    Oilman is loaning himself incredible sums of money...read the previous post, too, about Richardson and all the ties to oil, Republicans, etc.

    It's downright AWFUL!!

    Gas Tax Holiday (none / 0) (#186)
    by Manuel on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:45:09 PM EST
    The economic inpact of the gas tax has been minimized but that analysis is based on averages.

    There are some people such as migrant workers for whom the tax break could add to significant amounts.  Summer is also a time when many families travel long distances by car.  Won't a gas tax holiday have a significant impact on then as well?

    I read it would impact (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by eleanora on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:56:08 PM EST
    most people by $44 to $72 (per car they own) over the summer if they fill up as normal, more if they travel. Plus the related savings for truckers that transport goods may mean the price everything else will stop rocketing up for a bit. Part of the value is probably psychological, giving everyone a breathing space. I get panicky when I try to budget for the coming months, grocery prices have gone insane.

    Parent
    $5 for a box of cereal (none / 0) (#195)
    by Cream City on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:05:04 AM EST
    -- now how are working-class families supposed to handle that?  when every tank of gas to get to work is slaughtering their tight budgets, too?

    And in my state, where tourism is the number-one industry, with the season just about to start -- the high school and college kids are finding far fewer jobs, with the tourism industry cutting back, too.  Why?  Because people drive here, they don't fly here.

    Also, a family member manages a banquet hall that is seeing cancellations of weddings -- couples losing the $500 deposit but they can't afford the $1000s.    Some are putting off getting married for another year . . . or whenever, with food prices going up for receptions, too.

    Inflation is changing people's lives in sad ways.  Sure, a gas tax holiday doesn't make economists happy.  But they're not that big a voting bloc.:-)

    Parent

    Obama - for gas tax relief b4 he was against it (none / 0) (#199)
    by cmugirl on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:11:56 AM EST
     Fact Check: Obama and the gas taxes

    LINK

    Parent

    i wonder whether (none / 0) (#200)
    by english teacher on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:38:10 AM EST
    the thing about wright being hinted at as having "not yet come out" may be a speech demanding reparations?  perhaps even with obama in attendance?