home

Rev. Wright: Obama A Politician

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:30:17 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

I am no fan of Rev. Wright, and for the sake of the Democratic Party, I wish he would keep quiet until after November, but I agree with this:

MOYERS:Here is a man who came to see you 20 years ago. Wanted to know about the neighborhood. Barack Obama was a skeptic when it came to religion. He sought you out because he knew you knew about the community. You led him to the faith. . . . You were, for 20 years, his spiritual counsel. He has said that. And, yet, he, in that speech at Philadelphia, had to say some hard things about you. How did those words...how did it go down with you when you heard Barack Obama say those things? . . .

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me

WRIGHT: It went down very simply. He's a politician, I'm a pastor. We speak to two different audiences. And he says what he has to say as a politician. I say what I have to say as a pastor. But they're two different worlds. I do what I do. He does what politicians do. So that what happened in Philadelphia where he had to respond to the sound bytes, he responded as a politician.

Indeed. And there is nothing wrong with that. Rev. Wright takes Obama off the pedestal. As we should take ALL POLITICIANS off the pedestal.

< The Argument Obama Supporters Should Avoid | My View: On David Shuster >

  • Premium Ads

  • Blog Ads

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

    donate to TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Rev. Wright: Obama A Politician | 242 comments (242 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment

    I Wonder If Wright Really Has No Hard Feelings (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by BDB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:36:13 PM EST
    In addition to doing Moyers, he's also appearing at, IIRC, the Press Club.  I don't see how he can possibly help Obama.  He must know that.  

    The man (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by AnninCA on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:53:43 PM EST
    believes a lot of very odd things.  Why would we assume he's even remotely rational?

    [ Parent ]
    I think Obama wanted Wright (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by Josey on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:11:43 PM EST
    to do the interview and appear at the National Press Club to "change hearts and minds."
    But until Wright apologizes for his hateful comments about Hillary from the pulpit - no deal!
    Wright is repulsive.

    [ Parent ]
    I Doubt That (5.00 / 3) (#81)
    by BDB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:17:04 PM EST
    Remember Obama's big national conversation about race?  He dropped that the second after his speech was over.  He doesn't want to talk about Wright one more second than he has to (not that I blame him).

    [ Parent ]
    The lack of an apology to HRC (5.00 / 8) (#83)
    by davnee on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:18:08 PM EST
    is what burns me most of all.  Nothing excuses Obama for leaving that crude and hateful attack on his opponent launched on his behalf (though certainly not at his behest) unaddressed.  His friend and mentor slandered the Clintons in his name and frankly insulted all women, not just Hillary, and the crickets chirp.

    [ Parent ]
    The only way (2.00 / 1) (#12)
    by mattt on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:43:42 PM EST
    he can help, unfortunately, is to abase himself to some degree before the flag and pay homage to "America."  He can do it while voicing anger at those who misconstrued his words, but there must be a strong element of homage.

    A number of sources put the number of hard core white racists in America at about 15%.  I think the Dem primary shows that the number of people willing to vote for a black candidate for President is a lot higher than that.  But in between, there are some tens of percents of decent-hearted Americans torn between the endemically racist culture in which they were raised, and a post-racist society.  Wright's words have the potential to affect a lot of those people.

    [ Parent ]

    15% of whites are hard core racists? (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by Ed on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:00:56 PM EST
    Please cite your sources.  Given that approx. 75% of the U.S. population is white, 15% hard core racists would mean that 1 in 5 whites is a hard core racist.  You either have a very loose definition of hard core or your numbers are exaggerated.

    [ Parent ]
    If the Clintons Can Be Called Racists (5.00 / 12) (#68)
    by BDB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:10:01 PM EST
    then we're all racists.  So I'd say 15% is an underestimate.

    [ Parent ]
    LOL (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by AnninCA on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:16:55 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Racist? (5.00 / 1) (#223)
    by Molly Pitcher on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:41:27 PM EST
    All I can say is that even in this dark corner (except for Edwards) of South Carolina--yes, I said the grreat state of SC--the white racists are marrying up with black folks and raising brown kids at a pretty rapid clip.  I understand Thurmond's statue now has an addendum--the name of his half-black daughter.  Where are these hardcore racists if they are not here in the cradle of the unlamented confederacy?  Maybe they are busy moving to the cemetery (and the sooner the better).

    [ Parent ]
    I only know the Pugs aren't in a Conga line cuz .. (5.00 / 1) (#227)
    by Ellie on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:01:01 PM EST
    ... they don't do Latin, generally.

    They're definitely celebrating this "stat" under Wright's view, though. If I'm reading the right wing playbook correctly, once the Dems are done tanking Sen Clinton's run is, the Wright view will be AKA the Wright / Obama view: that whites are ALL racist.

    Redeemable Obama gift given previously: he called his natural mom a racist, and the white grandmother who raised him a racist. It's hard to find any white people who've helped him and he's spoken about in positive terms, never mind actually THANKED.

    Pugs will tweak it so its jessssst outside plausible deniability and defies explanation in a quick byte medium. Hot buttons like race always sound worse when someone tries to "explain" in the too little time allotted: eg, 'some of my best friends are black'.

    Well, some of my best friends actually ARE black, but in these days of pre-packaged one size fits all insta-judgmental dymo-labeling, not having to think something out (w/ context) is a good thing. Huh. I can think of very few states of mind I'd find more terrifying than that reactionary "stress-free" way of thinking, but that's just me.

    And as for the GOP's plans to play that slimy a race card, oh yes they will, you KNOW they will.

    [ Parent ]

    15% of all white democrats (none / 0) (#149)
    by Salo on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:07:54 PM EST
    It's going to be even worse out there in the big bad world.

    [ Parent ]
    I Agree (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by BDB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:07:34 PM EST
    What Wright would have to do to try to "fix" this for Obama he isn't going to do and I'm not sure I'd want to watch.  I think some of his statements are offensive, but watching him be torn apart by Tim Russert or some other MSMer who have done more damage to the country than Wright ever could is not anything I particularly want to see.  Which makes it curious that Wright is speaking out now.  

    The problem with Wright is not just race.  I don't think his comments on race are going to be what hurts Obama.  It's his stuff that's viewed as anti-American.  Obama is already viewed as an "other" and this will only add to that perception.

    My theory, FWIW, on women and all people of color is that they are much more prone to being painted as some sort of weird alien "other" than white men.  The GOP was able to smear Gore and Kerry somewhat as Other and they had both had long, national political careers and were both white men.  And Obama is in more danger of it than Clinton.  Not because he's black, but because he's new.  For better or worse, people feel like they know Hillary Clinton.  And I really do believe for women and people of color, many Americans have to know them to love them.  That, more than anything else, I fear will be Obama's undoing.  He's such a blank slate to most Americans, the GOP will be able to paint anything on it they want.  

    [ Parent ]

    At the moment I think (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by lilburro on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:21:12 PM EST
    the Obama camp is being far too optimistic about his image.  Dismissing blue collar voters and being nonchalant about Republican attacks is perhaps helpful as a primary tactic, but it is awful when you think of the entire country turning its attention onto Obama, and half of that country being very negative and/or skeptical.  The community organizer thing will not go far in the GE.  That along with the Harvard Law Review is a touchstone he won't have in the GE.  Most people in America will never get into Harvard and many will feel a certain amount of resentment towards it.  Time for a change from Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    Can anyone tell me (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by cmugirl on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:37:16 PM EST
    what Obama actually did as a community organizer?  He throws it in his resume occasionally, but I've never actually heard WHAT he organized or helped with?

    [ Parent ]
    Now That I Think About It, No (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by BDB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:46:23 PM EST
    Which is amazing because I'm a political junkie.  I should have some idea.  Weird.

    Although maybe it's in his books.

    [ Parent ]

    And (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by cmugirl on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:01:11 PM EST
    you just answered my question - I don't think ANYONE can say what he did.  Wouldn't you play this up in stump speeches if you were that involved as a community organizer?  I've heard time and again how Hillary went after law school to help register migrant workers, and her work with children and families, etc.

    I asked my co-workers who are the Obama supporters - two very smart men who are very enthusiastic about Obama, and they couldn't really give me an answer either...

    [ Parent ]

    Here is a very rosy (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by lilburro on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:56:14 PM EST
    depiction from the Nation of his work there.  He also organized a voting registration drive I believe.

    Obama:  Community Organizer

    It's good work.  But IMO it's not that much to hang your hat on.  Someone made a point earlier (somewhere) about Senator Clinton and her work as a Senator.  They compared her concern for upstate NY to community organizing.  I don't think it's a bad comparison.  I don't really see the great difference between community organizing and political work in general.  Community organizing is local politics.  Why act like it's so much better?  You have to bite your tongue, fib, and scoot.  It's politics.  

    [ Parent ]

    Even his devotees don't know (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by sarahfdavis on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:58:31 PM EST
    My office mate is an OFB.
    The day after THE SPEECH, he was going on and on about how monumental the words were. I said I don't look at the words, I look at the actions.
    "He was a community organizer!"
    "Again, nice words but what did he do as an organizer?"
    "He helped his community!"
    "How?"
    "I don't know...."
    That was the actual conversation.

    [ Parent ]
    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by themomcat on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:31:56 PM EST
    It never ceases to amaze me that many people cannot tell you what the candidate they support actually did to gain their support. And that applies to just about any candidate Dem, Rep or otherwise.

    [ Parent ]
    people are not resentful that they can not (none / 0) (#241)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:40:26 AM EST
    get in to Harvard.  They are sick to death of the idea that some people think they are resentful because they couldn't go to Harvard.  What you said is actually very "elitist" (everyone wants to be us, that is how we know we are wonderful).
    Most people think they are just fine even if they didn't get in to Harvard.  Most people have no particular desire to go to Harvard.  

    [ Parent ]
    there is no such a thing as a post racist society (none / 0) (#239)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:33:02 AM EST
    when the front runner for the nomination is willing to make racists out of his opponent and her husband to take advantage of racial resentment and paranoia.

    [ Parent ]
    Rev. Wright is human (none / 0) (#87)
    by felizarte on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:20:39 PM EST
    of course he has feelings.  And I won't be surprised if he is hurt.  The realization after twenty years that Obama IS REALLY just a politician must hurt especially after being discarded with statements such as:  "Had he not announced his retirement, I would have left his church after learning of those words . . . . from YouTube."  I wonder if he would say at some point that "yes, Obama and his family were there when he gave that sermon."  Nothing like righteous indignation of someone who considers himself doing God's work.  

    [ Parent ]
    In other words (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:36:21 PM EST
    Wright is implying that Obama really believes what he's studied under Wright for 20 years.  It's just that now, as a "politician," Obama has to lie about it.

    I doubt it (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by andgarden on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:39:31 PM EST
    but many people will get that impression.

    For Obama, I think this interview is bad.

    [ Parent ]

    Blank state status (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by rnibs on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:50:52 PM EST
    I think because people mostly know him as hope and change without many specifics (at least no specifics that come through the MSM).  This kind of blank slate status allows people to make associations that may or may not be correct.  They're trying to build a mental image of him and there's not much to contradict stuff like this in their minds.  It mostly depends on whether the MSM makes anything of this.  If not, it will make no difference.  If they do, people are going to try to fit it into their mental picture of him, even if it's presented incorrectly or incompletely.

    That said, this is just part of politics.  Hillary takes this kind of stuff in stride every day and lets it roll off her shoulders and keeps on going.  Barry could learn a thing or two from her.

    [ Parent ]

    just becuase (1.00 / 1) (#11)
    by TruthMatters on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:42:49 PM EST
    many people will get the wrong impression doesn't mean we spread it,


    [ Parent ]
    I suspect (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:45:18 PM EST
    you don't have any big problem with spreading things about Clinton.

    [ Parent ]
    TruthMatters Is A Staple On HuffPo/Anti-Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:53:42 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    actually I don't post on (none / 0) (#43)
    by TruthMatters on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:55:10 PM EST
    huffingtonpost

    my name was taken :-P

    [ Parent ]

    It's Odd The Other TruthMatters Has Your Mindset (4.50 / 2) (#69)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:10:41 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Heh (3.00 / 1) (#88)
    by mrjerbub on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:20:45 PM EST
    You are a surgeon.

    [ Parent ]
    We are not spreading it by (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by americanincanada on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:45:48 PM EST
    talking about it. It is an issue in the primary and will be a HUGE issue in the GE.

    [ Parent ]
    you really (1.00 / 1) (#32)
    by TruthMatters on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:51:48 PM EST
    need to go visit Hillaryis44, or Taylormarsh.com or Hillaryclinton.com

    I can't tell you how many times I see 1 comment somewhere quoted someone else and spread.

    taylor marsh posters still think "oversampling" AA's  screws up a poll, because 1 poster on MSNBC got it wrong and was quoted at taylormarsh.com  and taylor marsh nor anyone else either 1) doesn't know what oversampling really means and how it works
    or 2) didn't care enough to fix it. and later ofcourse I saw the same types of comments at MyDD and HillaryClinton.com because 1 poster was wrong but got quoted everyone else.

    you never know who is reading your comment and quoting it somewhere else.

    [ Parent ]

    so... (5.00 / 8) (#49)
    by dws3665 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:58:07 PM EST
    what is your point? Taylor is an avowed Clinton partisan. She says so, LOUDLY. She makes no claims to even-handedness or impartiality. The same cannot be said for the editorial staff of the HuffPo, Josh Marshall, etc. They claim simply to be progressive and 'reality based.' In fact, they have as strong a point of view as Taylor Marsh. They're just not honest about it.

    [ Parent ]
    So (4.00 / 1) (#59)
    by mattt on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:02:49 PM EST
    ...macerating reality is ok, as long as you're honest about your bias.  OK, got it.

    RedState rules apply!

    [ Parent ]

    I do wish (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by Manuel on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:14:55 PM EST
    media pundits and A-list bloggers were up front about their preferences in the form of a disclaimer at the bottom of the screen.  It would make it easier to apply the proper filters.

    [ Parent ]
    They Don't So They Can Reel You In... (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:28:05 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    It's similar to carrying concealed weapons. (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by felizarte on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:50:11 PM EST
    concealing them is against the law; carrying in plain sight is o.k. I am only talking about knives)  It's the principle of putting people on notice that you "are carrying."

    [ Parent ]
    do you know what macerate means? (none / 0) (#232)
    by dws3665 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:11:55 AM EST
    What is soaking in liquid? But regardless, it's the hypocrisy, not the inaccuracy, that rankles me most. Mangling reality is a problem, but in reading the writer who is honest and up front about his or her bias, an intelligent reader can know that they're getting spun, and you know there's a decent chance that reality is getting mangled. When you read WKJM, however, you are presented with an author who does not acknowledge his biases, in fact denies them, and then acts as though he is telling the unbiased truth. Just my $.02, but I believe that that is much worse.

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks... (none / 0) (#246)
    by mattt on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:32:48 PM EST
    I meant "masticate."  Dang, I thought that was a pretty good metaphor and I blew it.

    As far as TPM and hypocrisy....I'm not sure I recall where TPM pedged to be fair and balanced on the primary.  Certainly TPM and JMM make no claims to overall objectivity - their editorial bias is obviously pro-Dem, left-of-center, and nobody here seems to mind that.

    [ Parent ]

    You know (5.00 / 5) (#109)
    by Trickster on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:35:59 PM EST
    I am not a fan of Sen. Obama.  Far from it.  If perchance he wins the Democratic nomination I will hold my nose and vote for him.  But he is not there yet, and I have high hopes that he will not get there and don't mind taking steps in aid of those hopes.

    Now I'm not going to go running around engaging in dishonest smear campaigns against him.  But if I speak my mind as honestly and fairly as I know how, and the fallout of my words happens to stain the Illinois senator, que sera sera.

    [ Parent ]

    A new kind of politics (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by stillife on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:40:51 PM EST
    Uh-huh.


    [ Parent ]
    I support Clinton (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by Dave B on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:44:03 PM EST
    And I don't think that he was saying that Obama agrees with him, but I'm sure the Republicans will try to spin it that way.  I think the Clinton campaign should keep their mouths shut about it.

    The Republicans will not be able to help themselves.  They are already storing the footage away for later.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm just sayin' (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by stillife on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:49:52 PM EST
    Obama is a politician.  Rev. Wright said it.  I agree that the Clinton campaign should stay away from this issue.  

    [ Parent ]
    Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by AnninCA on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:04:22 PM EST
    won't touch this one with a 10 foot pole, unless she's determined to lose.

    [ Parent ]
    She's way too smart (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by stillife on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:22:56 PM EST
    for that.  

    [ Parent ]
    Girlfriend's working the 'Well you should ask him' (4.66 / 3) (#188)
    by Ellie on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:30:11 PM EST
    Yessss -- make him own his words and deeds, and tote his own baggage.

    Angelic smile (optional)

    Perfect way to disarm those landmines that want to blow her up for her own failings AND Obama's that are piling up by the day.

    In closing, bwaaaHAHHAHAAHA.

    [ Parent ]

    Agreed (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by rnibs on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:01:08 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    He said (4.00 / 1) (#21)
    by mattt on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:47:25 PM EST
    Obama was a politician; didn't rule out a "new kind of politician." ;)

    [ Parent ]
    Hee (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by americanincanada on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:49:22 PM EST
    His tone said all I needed to hear when he said it. ;-)

    [ Parent ]
    I've Ruled Out Obama Is A New Kind Of Politician.. (5.00 / 4) (#44)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:55:21 PM EST
    He is business as usual.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama (5.00 / 5) (#84)
    by cal1942 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:18:09 PM EST
    is soooo old politics that every time I read or hear someone who makes the new kind of politician claim it makes be laugh.

    As the old saying goes 'there's one born every minute.'

    [ Parent ]

    No Kidding! (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by AnninCA on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:28:32 PM EST
    I feel like finding my old peace symbol when he talks.  :)

    [ Parent ]
    Nice, mattt (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by lookoverthere on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:27:02 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    What he said, in so many words... (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by FlaDemFem on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:33:43 PM EST
    He does what politicians do. So that what happened in Philadelphia where he had to respond to the sound bytes, he responded as a politician.
    is that Barack Obama is a liar. STRAIGHT FROM HIS PASTOR'S MOUTH!!! It doesn't get any better than that..ROFLMAO Seriously..that sound bite is going straight into the GOP anti-Obama tape file. With friends like Obama has, he doesn't need any enemies, he can do the damage to his campaign all by himself, with a little help from his friends. What's next? An endorsement by Tony Rezko?

    [ Parent ]
    so you are (4.00 / 1) (#4)
    by TruthMatters on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:39:09 PM EST
    saying ALL politicians including Hillary Clinton lie?

    because THAT is what you are implying.

    [ Parent ]

    Yes, absolutely (5.00 / 9) (#10)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:42:34 PM EST
    all politicians lie.  Absolutely.  Every single one does.

    I'm just saying this interview reveals a more damaging lie than most.

    [ Parent ]

    Agree (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by stillife on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:46:45 PM EST
    the problem with being a holier-than-thou candidate is that the fall from grace is so much more precipitous.

    I've been telling my Obama supporting mom for months, "Mom, he's just a politician!"  She thinks he's a Christ-like figure.  

    [ Parent ]

    Spitzer for instance (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Manuel on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:16:33 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Why do people think that? (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:44:08 PM EST
    Christ told people what they didn't want to hear.

    [ Parent ]
    Why? Because they are trusting, ... (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by cymro on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:08:11 PM EST
    ... and want to believe the best of everyone, until something is proved otherwise. My Mom would react exactly the same way. So by remaining a blank slate (and aided by his adoring media coverage), Obama is prolonging this honeymoon perception.

    [ Parent ]
    In addition (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:44:21 PM EST
    I didn't say that Obama actually DID lie about his feelings about Wright.  I'm only saying that Wright implied that Wright believed that Obama lied about his feelings about Wright -- because Obama is a politician..

    [ Parent ]
    Well I keep harping on Geffen (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:48:00 PM EST
    But no one ever reminds me that Geffen said "all politicians lie" and is anyone willing to admit that Geffen was talking about Obama too!??

    Which I'm not sure that he was.

    We attach a lot of importance to truthfulness when it comes to evaluating character.

    Personally, I think that's wrong but I understand the political environment relevant to this topic.

    [ Parent ]

    Truth is so beautiful (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Salo on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:10:26 PM EST
    it must have a bodyguard of lies.

    [ Parent ]
    I have stated it MANY TIMES (4.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:42:09 PM EST
    But I disagree that Obama lied about disagreeing with Wright. I think he chose that church for political reasons. I personally doubt he thought twice about Wright myself.

    [ Parent ]
    ding ding ding (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by progrocks on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:53:14 PM EST
    you want to be a powerful black politician down there, you go to that church. simple as that. hell, i would not even be surprised that deep down he has the same beliefs that he had 20 years ago, but he wants to get elected, so that is where he went. Atheists are the new gays in politics, the ones who truly have to cover.

    I think I am about to join a unitarian church now...

    [ Parent ]

    lol (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by Salo on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:20:51 PM EST
    ...aLAN cOLMES is getting butchered with Hannity's commentary on Wright.

    He's repoeated everything that I heard on Dkos to defend the link to his church...and he's still getting murdered.  He's actually putting up the best arguments i've seen on Dkos and he's getting his head handed to him.

    oh the humanity.

    [ Parent ]

    I Agree (5.00 / 8) (#52)
    by BDB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:59:37 PM EST
    To the extent Obama has lied, I believe it has to do with why he went to that church in the first place.  It wasn't spiritual power he went looking for, it was political connections and credibility with the black community in Chicago.  

    Now, of course, a lot of people choose their church for social or career reasons.  He's hardly the first to look at a congregation and see potential business contacts.  The problem is that in this country, politicians aren't allowed to speak the truth about such things.  They must all pretend to be moved solely and completely by the Holy Spirit.  So Obama is stuck.

    In some ways, I feel kind of bad for him.  But then I remember all the times he's used this same pious crap (lecturing pro-choice forces about the morality of the forced birth zealots, lecturing the Dems about being more respectful of religion) that it's hard for me to feel too bad for him.

    I don't think Obama believes a lot of things Wright said.  I do think it's going to hurt him anyway if he's the nominee.

    [ Parent ]

    But, Michelle does and his daughters are exposed.. (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by alexei on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:52:30 PM EST
    to Wright and the theology.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm Not Sure Michelle Does Either (4.50 / 2) (#141)
    by BDB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:00:53 PM EST
    I think the Obamas are more ambitious than radical.  

    I admit that my father wouldn't put me in a church with which he disagreed vehemently with the teachings (in fact we quit a church after a sermon my father thought implied bombing abortion clinics was understandable), but maybe the daughters went to another part of the church during the adult sermons.  Or maybe the Obamas believe what Wright says.  Or believe the good outweighs the bad.  I don't know and in some ways I don't care, the kids are theirs, not mine.

    [ Parent ]

    I believe (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by magisterludi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:05:04 PM EST
    Michelle's father was dem precinct captain in Chicago. Her connections run deep.

    [ Parent ]
    I do because this is the first time that she has.. (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by alexei on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:30:06 PM EST
    been proud to be an American.  I'm not saying that she isn't an ambitious one, she is, but I also think that she does believe in the racial part of the Wright sermons.

    [ Parent ]
    I can agree (4.50 / 2) (#101)
    by cal1942 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:26:58 PM EST
    to the extent that he joined the church for purely political reasons.

    Inasmuch as agreeing with what Wright said; I don't believe Obama cares about what Wright says one way or another. Obama, I've come to believe is one of the most cynical politicians of our time.

    Obama was there to be seen. Period.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama has admitted joining for political reasons (none / 0) (#233)
    by andrys on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 12:57:58 AM EST
    In one of his books and then recently at the "Compassion Forum" he stated that the community he was trying to help was comprised of people for whom religion or Christianity is central.  He realized, he said, he couldn't be as effective with them unless he joined a church.  He joked about this at that recent televised forum.

      He does admit outright that he joined for political reasons, but he also insists he became converted (which also of course he would have to say but I don't know for sure it's true or untrue).

     

    [ Parent ]

    which makes hjis old claim to be (none / 0) (#238)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:29:35 AM EST
    the only democrat who can reach out to the "faith community" even more cynical than I thought to begin with.
    Remember his whole schtick about how democrats, particularly the gay community was "hermetically sealed" from the faith community and "democrats have a problem with religion", forgetting that most democrats are religious just like most republicans (but we have more atheists and agnostics and that's perfectly fine) are Christians, just in a slightly smaller percentage.  That whole thing was what first turned me off to him.  At the time I said many many times that he was creating a division that did not exist so that he could sell himself as the solution.  I found it cynical, damaging and arrogant for him to reinforce a right wing attack on democrats so that he could profit by it.

    [ Parent ]
    pardon the long response, but ... (none / 0) (#41)
    by dws3665 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:55:02 PM EST
    Duh.

    [ Parent ]
    You honestly claiming they don't? (none / 0) (#111)
    by Trickster on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:38:19 PM EST
    Of course they all lie.  However, they don't all lie equally.  Far from it.  Some lie when they have to, some are neutral about lying/truthing, some enjoy lying, some do it like breathing.

    [ Parent ]
    Taking off the pedestal (none / 0) (#15)
    by jpete on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:44:38 PM EST
    is about assumptions, and not necessarily facts.

    [ Parent ]
    That's (none / 0) (#30)
    by mattt on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:50:09 PM EST
    the GOP interpretation.  Thanks for the preview.

    Pastor and politician are two different vocations.  Using "politician" as a derogatory is playing the right wing, glibertarian, Grover Norquist game.

    [ Parent ]

    we're not supposed to mention anything (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by Josey on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:05:55 PM EST
    the GOP may use against Obama?
    Seems you're stuck in the pre-Wright days.


    [ Parent ]
    Wright (none / 0) (#34)
    by AnninCA on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:53:05 PM EST
    getting paid by Hillary?

    Whew*......This is devastating stuff.

    [ Parent ]

    Rev. Wright (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by stillife on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:38:18 PM EST
    is the gift that keeps on giving - to the Clinton and McCain campaigns.

    Wright speaks (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by AnninCA on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:54:14 PM EST
    Obama drops another 5 points

    [ Parent ]
    McCain (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by Kathy on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:17:51 PM EST
    nailed it again on the Nightly News when he got a question about Heagee (sp?)  He alluded to Wright without even saying his name.

    Win/win.

    [ Parent ]

    Do tell (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by cmugirl on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:24:23 PM EST
    What was the question and what did McCain say?

    [ Parent ]
    Wasn't that the one where he (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by litigatormom on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:50:30 PM EST
    said that he disapproved of what Hagee said but was happy to have his support?

    [ Parent ]
    gleefully supporting a McCain (1.00 / 1) (#193)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:33:43 PM EST
    line of attack.  what else should we expect...

    [ Parent ]
    AgreeToDisagree, what is this in reference to? (none / 0) (#229)
    by lookoverthere on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:26:03 PM EST
    who is supporting McCain's attack so gleefully?

    [ Parent ]
    Let me guess (5.00 / 5) (#123)
    by RalphB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:51:45 PM EST
    Something along the lines of, "He endorsed me but I'm not a member of his church and he was not my spiritual mentor for 20 years."


    [ Parent ]
    you got it! (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by Josey on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:13:30 PM EST
    and Chris Matthews said Wright is Obama's Iraq.


    [ Parent ]
    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Steve M on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:41:19 PM EST
    I found it interesting how many Obama supporters argued that good liberals have a duty to defend Wright to the death, notwithstanding that their own candidate had refused to do so!

    Rev. Wright is not a stupid guy and of course he understands how this all works.  But it's interesting that he won't play the game to the extent of keeping a low profile to help Obama out.

    I saw a very interesting column in the Detroit Free Press to the effect that Wright's keynote address to the NAACP this weekend may actually have been orchestrated by Clinton supporters.  I wonder if that's true.

    Did Clinton also force him to accept? (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by nycstray on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:55:55 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Hmmm.... (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by cmugirl on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:57:22 PM EST
    Wright and Kwame Kilpatrick on the same dais together?

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#218)
    by Steve M on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:23:07 PM EST
    Apparently the word on the street is that Kilpatrick is secretly a Clinton supporter.  I have no idea if it's true, but he keeps it very very quiet if it's true.  Understandably so.

    [ Parent ]
    Interesting (none / 0) (#243)
    by cmugirl on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:03:49 AM EST
    I thought I heard he supported Obama, but I'm sure your sources are better than mine!

    [ Parent ]
    The Clinton Camp Orchestrated Cain Killing Abel :) (5.00 / 8) (#58)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:02:14 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    LOL*I (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by AnninCA on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:05:53 PM EST
    Everything is Hillary's fault.  Such power.  :)

    [ Parent ]
    After W (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by litigatormom on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:51:56 PM EST
    perhaps a competent omnipotence as president would be a relief.

    Just kiddin'....

    [ Parent ]

    The Rev. Wright ... (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:03:07 PM EST
    ... has been accused in the public forum of many thing, and he has the right to defend himself from those charges in that same public forum. If he wants to keep quiet, as BTD suggests, for the sake of Obama's candidacy, that's his decision to make, and his alone.

    Doesn't sound like he's willing to do that, though. Pity, but que sera sera.

    [ Parent ]

    Well gosh (5.00 / 1) (#219)
    by Steve M on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:23:51 PM EST
    Of course it's his choice.  I just said I found his choice interesting.  I think we all agree it's a free country.

    [ Parent ]
    What I find interesting is that he's basically (5.00 / 3) (#221)
    by derridog on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:29:59 PM EST
    saying that Obama's lying when he distances himself from Wright.  Long version of "he's a politician," is "he's lying so he doesn't lose the election and I'm cool with that because I know he doesn't mean it."

    [ Parent ]
    It speaks truly of Obama (which is to say poorly) (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by davnee on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:46:22 PM EST
    It speaks truly in that he is just a politician.  He joined and stayed in that church for political reasons (get votes from the neighborhood) and he is now distancing himself from that church for political reasons (get votes from the country), yet he is only distancing himself so far for political reasons (keep AA votes).

    But the truth does not reflect well on him, because his campaign is built entirely on a lie (that he is not just a politician - he offers nothing of policy substance to voters beyond his false and hypocritical claims about political change), and at the end of the day, I just can't respect a man that would thoroughly embrace a racist, anti-semitic, anti-American, and astonishingly and unrepentently crude individual like Wright for 20 years.  Crass politics justifies kissing a lot of pigs, but there are limits.

    And that's the charitable interpretation (none / 0) (#24)
    by davnee on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:49:04 PM EST
    The uncharitable interpretation is that Obama embraced Wright for 20 years because he feels at home with him.

    [ Parent ]
    Unfortunately (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by RalphB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:33:37 PM EST
    the uncharitable interpretation may be correct.  

    [ Parent ]
    Just another politician (none / 0) (#35)
    by Coral on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:53:07 PM EST
    Actually, this is an argument that I see as favoring Obama. I prefer a politician to a Messiah. Messiahs bring big trouble, especially when they dabble in politics.

    [ Parent ]
    See my brass tacks post on this (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by davnee on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:13:51 PM EST
    If not a messiah then what does he actually offer?

    [ Parent ]
    I would too BUT (none / 0) (#231)
    by angie on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 11:18:25 PM EST
    Obama's whole premise is that he isn't a politician.  In fact, that is what turned me off of him in the first place -- I have no problem with a politician who admits he/she is one.  But I find it down right insulting for a politician (and make no mistake, anyone running for President of the United States of America in one of the two major parties, is  a politician) to tell me he isn't one. If Obama had admitted from the beginning he was a politician, fine.  But, Obama cannot undue his initial lie now by claiming he is, after all, just a politician.  

    [ Parent ]
    davnee...check this out (none / 0) (#60)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:03:02 PM EST
    http://www.freedomsenemies.com/_Obama/ObamaReligion

    [ Parent ]
    page not found (none / 0) (#182)
    by Josey on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:24:09 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    It Is Always Interesting (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by squeaky on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:47:24 PM EST
    When the curtain is drawn away, and you get to realize that these are just people, not false gods or wizzards. They are people who are doing a job, a job that they believe in, and a job that involves a certain balance of acting and suspension of disbelief, in order to both satisfy your customers and get your job done.

    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:51:34 PM EST
    Can I quote you the next time an Obama supporter brings up sniper fire?

    I think that's a wonderful comment.


    [ Parent ]

    Feel Free (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by squeaky on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:52:36 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    They're not wizards!?! (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:00:20 PM EST
    Crosses Obama off wizard scroll.

    Gosh, they're aren't many names on this list anymore.

    America may have a wizard gap!

    ;)

    [ Parent ]

    Obama is a Squib? (5.00 / 3) (#127)
    by litigatormom on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:53:08 PM EST
    Flunked out of Hogwarts, had to go to Columbia and Harvard?

    [ Parent ]
    Litigatormom... (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by cmugirl on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:11:06 PM EST
    You are my new favorite poster. Almost had a screen full of water on that one!

    I bet he flunked Herbology and Potions!

    :)

    [ Parent ]

    Wow... (none / 0) (#179)
    by reynwrap582 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:23:19 PM EST
    That's a perfect set up for a joke I can't use here.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah (none / 0) (#244)
    by cmugirl on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:04:48 AM EST
    I thought of that too as I was writing it!

    [ Parent ]
    So let's get down to brass tacks (4.94 / 17) (#67)
    by davnee on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:09:39 PM EST
    Because I agree with your comment.  The brass tacks are this: if Obama is not a prophet of new politics, what the heck else does he offer a (Progressive Dem) voter?

    • He's got minimal experience to bring to bear on the hardest and most important job in the world.
    • His record marks no extraordinary or courageous or hard-won accomplishments, save one strong anti-war speech that was in truth politically expedient and not at all courageous for him given the constituents he served at the time.
    • He does not think well on his feet, nor does he appear to like working hard.
    • He appears to be extraordinarily thin-skinned.
    • He shows no affinity for working class people nor any outward devotion to populist ideals

    Enough on style, competence and gravitas.  On to policy.  This will just be a short list.

    • His rhetoric on reproductive rights raises red flags.
    • He appears to favor Republican foreign policy, with some occasional and alarming appeasement rhetoric thrown in
    • His rhetoric and his actions on gay rights suggest he does not care one whit about those rights.  Pro forma support.  Nothing more.
    • He's said some disturbing things about social security and privatization
    • I don't know what the heck he's talking about on taxes
    • He's gotten serious chunks of change from Wall Street - what does that mean for the prospect of needed regulation?
     - AND He doesn't believe in universal healthcare - in fact he's running against it using Republican talking points!!!!!!

    If he's not a prophet after all, then why is anyone "progressive" who was once blinded but now can see voting for this man?

    [ Parent ]

    yep (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by pluege on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:23:51 PM EST
    pretty good recap and pointed question.

    [ Parent ]
    Exactly (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by hookfan on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:28:51 PM EST