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Dumb Idea: Reid, Pelosi And Dean To Demand SDs Decide

The stupidity of Dem "Party Elders" is a remarkable thing sometimes. But this bit takes the cake:

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Thursday that he may try to force undecided superdelegates to make their decisions in the Democratic presidential race if it stretches into June. Reid said he would consider writing a joint letter with Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) demanding that superdelegates make their endorsements public.

“The three of us, we may write a joint letter [to superdelegates],” said Reid. “We might do individual letters. We are in contact with each other.”

Here's a thought, let Obama defeat Clinton, if he can, instead of angering the Clinton Wing of the Democratic Party. Are they incapable of just being quiet?

By Big Tent Democrat

< The Other Media Darling | Denounce And Reject >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Oh no. (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by rooge04 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:13:19 PM EST
    I would welcome them trying to do this. Just to see how quickly it blows up in their face.  Why are they so frightened of this going on longer? Are they really in the tank for Obama that deeply? My goodness.  Their man can't win legitimately so they'll try to give him the nomination.  Then on to the landslide loss in November!

    Can't wait for Carville to be asked about this (none / 0) (#47)
    by blogtopus on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:36:45 PM EST
    n/t

    [ Parent ]
    May he say: Bless their hearts, let them try (none / 0) (#82)
    by Cream City on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:53:05 PM EST
    I so appreciate my lesson this morning on this blog in Southern manners.  And now I, a Northerner married into a family with Southerners who call me "Yankee girl," know what to do when they say, "Bless her heart" about me.  

    (What to do?  Run!)

    [ Parent ]

    LOL. (none / 0) (#108)
    by rooge04 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:00:49 PM EST
    My Southern friends can be quite adept at using "Bless your heart" when appropriate. With that: Bless your heart Party Elders!  You're going to need some blessings, luck, and lots and lots of skill to try and woo us back. Here's a hint with me: It won't work!

    [ Parent ]
    Reid is going to prove (none / 0) (#166)
    by ghost2 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:44:28 PM EST
    the saying: "never underestimate the democrats' ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory."

    IDIOTS.  

    These guys are afraid of a civil primary going a bit longer (according to the rules that THEY THEMSELVES devised), and you wanted them to fight Bush and republicans?  Good luck with thses weasles, everybody.

    [ Parent ]

    Actually (none / 0) (#100)
    by flashman on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:58:53 PM EST
    Carville said last night he would like to see this wrapped up in June.

    [ Parent ]
    If they Break for Obama I be glad to have (none / 0) (#143)
    by Salt on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:22:47 PM EST
    Clinton run as an Indpendent can she do that?

    [ Parent ]
    No Way Would Hillary Run As An Indie (none / 0) (#149)
    by MO Blue on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:28:01 PM EST
    She is a loyal Dem. I could see Obama doing the indie bit or the Americans for Obama Party but never Clinton.

    [ Parent ]
    She could. She won't. (none / 0) (#151)
    by echinopsia on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:28:25 PM EST
    If there is one candidate in this race who is a real Democrat, it's Hillary. She won't do it.

    [ Parent ]
    MoBlue and echinopsia (none / 0) (#198)
    by cal1942 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:32:31 PM EST
    are right. Not gonna happen.

    [ Parent ]
    Hmm. (none / 0) (#189)
    by lansing quaker on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:19:18 PM EST
    "Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Thursday that he may try to force undecided superdelegates to make their decisions in the Democratic presidential race if it stretches into June."

    I think they should start right now -- with Donna Brazile leading the charge!

    Maybe then I won't have to listen to her "undecided" self during so much election coverage.  

    [ Parent ]

    Can't they do it without making it a media issue (none / 0) (#227)
    by doyenne49 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:50:46 PM EST
    Why announce it? why have a press release saying this? Why not just do i? If you actually AR a party elder, do it. If you're just a posturing ass, stop pretending you ARE a party elder who has any pull at all.

    [ Parent ]
    It almost seems as if they don't care (5.00 / 6) (#2)
    by athyrio on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:13:48 PM EST
    about the Clinton wing of the party and are saying "it's my way or the highway"...Sadly for the democratic party, for many of us, we will choose the highway...:-(

    with the republicans ... (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by narius on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:23:31 PM EST
    cheering on.

    The Clinton wing probably will get angry anyway whether Clinton loses now or later.

    If the DNC cuts their loss now, at least they know what they are up against and have more time to response.

    [ Parent ]

    I am angry (5.00 / 6) (#113)
    by madamab on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:02:43 PM EST
    at Obama for dividing the Party by his disingenuous use of race.

    I am angry at the leadership for trying to force Obama down our throats and discounting FL and MI for no reason. All they had to do was say that half their delegates would not be seated at the convention. Done!

    I would not be so asinine as to be angry if my candidate legitimately loses the nomination because of the will of the voters. However, I don't see that happening. I do see that the Party appears bound and determined to give him the nomination whether he earns it or not.

    That does not make me part of a "Clinton wing." That makes me a person who believes in democracy.

    Sorry if people can't tell the difference.

    [ Parent ]

    can tell the difference but I'm both (none / 0) (#167)
    by Salt on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:46:10 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Rove, Rush are all helpig Hillary (none / 0) (#104)
    by lilybart on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:59:37 PM EST
    because they know how to take her down.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah, it worked real great on Bill (5.00 / 6) (#128)
    by Trickster on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:12:29 PM EST
    They knew how to take him down, too.

    [ Parent ]
    silly (none / 0) (#218)
    by sas on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:01:23 PM EST
    they can't wait to have obama as the nominee

    they see him as easily beatable

    go read their sites like i do

    [ Parent ]

    Trouble is (none / 0) (#195)
    by cal1942 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:25:37 PM EST
    the more time Obama is exposed the more he fades.


    [ Parent ]
    Why are we assuming they will break for Obama? (none / 0) (#157)
    by Salt on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:33:48 PM EST
    I really dont.

    [ Parent ]
    yes (none / 0) (#217)
    by sas on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:00:00 PM EST
    you are right

    they disrespect us, we owe them nothing

    [ Parent ]

    I know. It does seem like they don't care. (none / 0) (#232)
    by derridog on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:44:42 PM EST
    They must know how much they are pissing people of by saying they are going to throw the election by putting their thumbs on the scale for one candidate! I got another phone call from the DNC yesterday and i told the boy, "I will give the DNC money if and when they seat the Florida and Michigan delegates and not before."  He gave a huge sigh and sounding totally dispirited said, "okay okay," and hung up.

    They must be getting this a  lot. What can they be thinking? It just boggles the mind.

    [ Parent ]

    You are assuming, of course, (5.00 / 6) (#3)
    by cmugirl on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:13:52 PM EST
    that they would all (or mostly) come out for Obama.  I think it would be a hoot if enough came out for HRC that it tied his delegate count or made her pull ahead.  That would be hilarious to see the egg on Pelosi et al's faces!

    At least we would know. (none / 0) (#60)
    by Same As It Ever Was on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:43:30 PM EST
    It's the prolonged uncertainty that gives the leadership heartburn.  The late convention date was another in a long string of bad decisions by the DNC this cycle.

    [ Parent ]
    So be it, come out for Hillary (none / 0) (#99)
    by lilybart on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:58:51 PM EST
    just stop the civil war before it is too late.

    [ Parent ]
    This is why (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by kimsaw on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:13:54 PM EST
    I'm not a registered anything, I a recovering party girl! I like to keep them guessing!

    I'm so impressed with Clinton for (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by katiebird on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:14:17 PM EST
    not losing her head.  It's becoming obvious that's not a skill we can take for granted.

    Are they incapable of just being quiet?

    Yes.

    A handy ability for a president, too (none / 0) (#90)
    by Cream City on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:54:55 PM EST
    and for any leader.  Telling that Reid, Pelosi, Dean, Brazile, and their ilk lack that ability.

    [ Parent ]
    its possible (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:15:08 PM EST
    they should be careful what they wish for.

    Here's another idea... (5.00 / 16) (#7)
    by Marco21 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:15:17 PM EST
    Why don't they make demands of the Bush administration or the rest of congress like they're supposed to?

    Instead they insult and demean millions of democrats.

    Oh, but they do! (5.00 / 2) (#158)
    by talktomei on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:35:32 PM EST
    They use fierce, hot letters on the Republicans too

    LOL

    [ Parent ]

    Could they possibly be handling this (5.00 / 6) (#8)
    by stillife on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:15:34 PM EST
    any worse?

    Oooh, Harry Reid and Howard Dean are gonna write a letter? I'm sure it'll be strongly worded and strike fear into the heart of every SD.  

    This strikes me as more passing of the buck.  I'm pretty sure I know what side Pelosi, Dean, et al. are gunning for, but I'd respect them more if they just came out and said it.

    I want to know this: what will happen first, the public endorsements or the resolution of MI and FL?

    The public endorsements (none / 0) (#66)
    by Same As It Ever Was on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:46:15 PM EST
    unless Obama manages to build a large enough lead that they would have no impact.  But that can only happen with SD endorsements anyway.  I expect we'll see them trickling in over the next few weeks, especially if Obama wins Indiana or wins big in NC and keeps Indiana close.

    [ Parent ]
    Don't you think? (5.00 / 9) (#9)
    by cmugirl on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:16:00 PM EST
    With all the clamoring for her to get out, if they were all in the tank for Obama, they would come out tomorrow and have this thing be done?

    Yes I do. (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by madamab on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:17:22 PM EST
    Seems they are not all riding the Unity Pony.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes. (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by katiebird on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:18:40 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Good point I agree (5.00 / 0) (#122)
    by Marvin42 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:08:20 PM EST
    I keep going back to this: we all assume the undeclared SDs are all sitting waiting for Obama. But the doesn't make sense. If they are leaning they would have this over and come out. I am thinking he has the low hanging fruit as far as SDs. The rest must not be leaning his way.

    Maybe its wishful thinking but something is holding them back.

    [ Parent ]

    PLEOS don't want to anger a lot of people (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by Molly Bloom on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:18:14 PM EST
    At this point it is clear, If the  PLEOS vote Clinton the Obama supporters will be angry; if the PLEOS vote Obama, the Clinton supporters will be angry. If there is one thing I am sure of, the majority of PLEOS are spineless.

    Not deciding is the easiest way to go. What they are doing is praying for one candidate to implode.

    [ Parent ]

    i'll bet what's holding them back is (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by scorbs on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:12:32 PM EST
    that they're savvy enough to know that a premature siding with Obama before primaries are complete would anger Clinton supporters, who do dominate the popular vote, so they're just before they take the leap to kool-aid boy.

    Am totally disgusted with the Dem party.

    I read today -- and don't know if it's true -- that the state senate meets about 55 days a year.  That means Obama's total legislative career lasted about 440 days or a little more than a year.  Now maybe he was doing district things -- but I doubt it; you just need to look at the districts he represented and some of the buildings there to see he didn't do much for them.  He certainly took Rezko's money, and helped steer public business Rezko's way, despite the slum buildings owned by that hood in obama's district.

    Then he gets in the Senate for a year, where he has an unremarkable history, and immediately runs for President, tapping into the country's anger at the democratic impotency in the face of George Bush, and lookie here.

    What a mess.  A nominee chosen because he won mostly caucuases in red states that'll stay red in the Fall, and who has inflated his resume.

    [ Parent ]

    This (none / 0) (#199)
    by cmugirl on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:35:08 PM EST
    needs to be put out there by a surrogate if true.  I've heard people spouting that his legislative experience is greater than hers because of his 8 years in Illinois.  So, really, he has like 2 years' total experience.

    Interesting.

    [ Parent ]

    This is likely why he refuses... (none / 0) (#225)
    by Dawn Davenport on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:18:19 PM EST
    ...to release his schedule from when he was a state senator.

    I'll never understand why the media gave him a free pass on this while demanding then poring over Hillary's schedule from her first lady days.

    Of course, they ended up looking like idiots for doing so, after her schedule proved her prodigious work ethic and little else.

    [ Parent ]

    wasn't Reid's son (none / 0) (#130)
    by Kathy on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:13:36 PM EST
    instrumental in helping Clinton win Nevada?  Is the elder Reid not for Clinton?

    [ Parent ]
    Sssh! (if true, inconvenient fact) (none / 0) (#136)
    by Molly Bloom on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:19:21 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I'm sorry this is too funny (5.00 / 10) (#10)
    by waldenpond on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:16:33 PM EST
    Leave Obama aloooooone..... I am laughing at the idiocy of these guys.  It is just so juvenile... the voters are going to vote for Clinton, we must stop this...  he is being pressured to debate and we know he won't be able to refuse, we must stop this.....

    They are just giving the Repubs more fodder, they just look like wimps.  The babying of their candidate is pathetic.

    Of course they are capable of being quiet (5.00 / 11) (#11)
    by cawaltz on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:16:44 PM EST
    It's amazing how quiet they have been on the fact that subpoenas have been ignored and they were quite quite about FISA or Habeaus. Unfortunately, the only time they seem to not be able to shut up is when you want them to shut up. I've about had it with our party leaders(and I use that term loosely because I am already registered independant now).  

    I was registered Independent (5.00 / 9) (#18)
    by madamab on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:20:10 PM EST
    for a while, until I realized that meant I couldn't vote in the Democratic primary in my state.

    Now I realize that the Democratic Party doesn't care about me, my votes, or the millions of voters in MI and FL. All they want is for their fave to win the nomination, and they don't care who they destroy in the process.

    I suspect that if Obama wins the nomination and loses the election, the Independent Party may actually become a bigger force in America. Which would be a good thing, IMHO.

    [ Parent ]

    I can promise you this (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by angie on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:32:07 PM EST
    if MI & FL don't count in a real way (not just for "show"), I'm changing my registration to "I." And I'm doing it even if Hillary gets the nomination (of course, I'm still not going to vote GOP, but I'm not going to be aligned with a party that disenfranchises anybody -- if I've said it once, I've said it a million times -- it wasn't right when it happened in 2000 & it isn't right now). Let the DNC see me "leaving" the party and maybe they will start acting like they are should to woo me back.  

    [ Parent ]
    They could have saved us all a lot of time (5.00 / 7) (#58)
    by BarnBabe on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:42:28 PM EST
    They should have just come out and said "We don't want Hillary. We want Obama. No Primary being held and we don't care a rat's posterior what the people in the party want. We rule. We have a coup going. I feel like we are in Russia. Yeah, go vote. But only for who I say will be the winner.

    [ Parent ]
    It s already a bigger force (none / 0) (#30)
    by cawaltz on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:26:08 PM EST
    That's why corporate America was floating Bloomberg for a while. It's only a matter of time before enough of the electorate get thoroughly sick of both parties and their excuses. It appears thew Democrats would like to have a race with the GOP to see which of the two parties can lose their base at a faster rate.

    [ Parent ]
    Only Problem With Unity 08 Is That It (none / 0) (#200)
    by MO Blue on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:35:43 PM EST
    was only going to be a faux Republican lite entity that still leaves many of us with no choice.

    [ Parent ]
    and let's not forget (5.00 / 6) (#27)
    by txpolitico67 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:24:36 PM EST
    how vocal Pelosi was about "impeachment being off the table."

    That's not leadership.  At all.  It shows a lack of principled fights to stop the war and the bloodletting in the Middle-East.

    [ Parent ]

    but but but (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by cawaltz on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:30:05 PM EST
    we need a super duper majority It's amazing the GOP, who happnto be in the minorty, have been more effective at getting their crap to te floor(Who can forget the condemnation of Moveon or calling a branch of the Iranian Army a terrorist group). Hey, they write a mean sternly worded letter from what I understand. Political kabuki at its finest.

    [ Parent ]
    How Did Obama Vote On That Move-On Fiasco? (none / 0) (#103)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:59:35 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    "Present" (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Regency on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:18:40 PM EST
    aka He wasn't in town that day.

    [ Parent ]
    wasn't he in town (none / 0) (#146)
    by Kathy on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:24:54 PM EST
    but said it was "silly."  Like with Kyl-Lieberman, when he was in town but wouldn't take the vote?

    [ Parent ]
    He Was In Town Just Refused To Vote (none / 0) (#156)
    by MO Blue on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:31:47 PM EST
    to support MoveOn.

    [ Parent ]
    Didn't vote. (none / 0) (#145)
    by Joan in VA on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:23:10 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Pelosi (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by standingup on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:53:20 PM EST
    was post-partisan before post-partisan was cool.

    [ Parent ]
    Now THAT's funny. n/t (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Same As It Ever Was on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:54:53 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I think (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by cannondaddy on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:17:13 PM EST
    the slow trickle of superdelegates to Obama is much better than a massive rush.  He'll probably need about 80-90 more to put him over 2025 when voting is done.

    They don't count in pledged total. (none / 0) (#147)
    by Joan in VA on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:25:26 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Delegate declarations (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by jackyt on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:19:58 PM EST
    If SD declarations of support were actual binding votes, there would be no point in having a convention. Since they are not, this is just more muddying of the waters.

    Personally, I'm giving the supers. . .. (5.00 / 7) (#16)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:20:02 PM EST
    until late August to make up their minds.

    and the John McCain (none / 0) (#91)
    by narius on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:55:36 PM EST
    would love you idea very much.

    [ Parent ]
    Here's how they can show leadership: (5.00 / 5) (#17)
    by MarkL on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:20:05 PM EST
    declare that the magic number is 22**---the number including FL and MI.
    Another way is for Dean to resign, effective immediately.

    And take Donna with him (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by BarnBabe on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:38:00 PM EST
    N/T

    [ Parent ]
    my question is (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:20:32 PM EST
    how exactly do they plan to force them to do anything?


    By growing a spine? (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by nycstray on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:22:20 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Their spines only come (5.00 / 9) (#29)
    by rooge04 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:26:05 PM EST
    out when it's to attack Hillary. When it matters and they should have one against Republicans, they are  jellyfish.

    [ Parent ]
    I wish (4.00 / 1) (#182)
    by ghost2 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:11:00 PM EST
    I could give this comment a rating of 50.  

    [ Parent ]
    Meant to give you a 5, oh well (none / 0) (#202)
    by Ellie on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:37:25 PM EST
    ... brain props aplenty but here's some in a post anyway.

    [ Parent ]
    You Can Change Ratings (5.00 / 1) (#210)
    by squeaky on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:25:47 PM EST
    For comments you have rated, just click on another number and then click  'rate all'

    [ Parent ]
    is this a trick question? (5.00 / 6) (#20)
    by cpinva on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:20:33 PM EST
    Are they incapable of just being quiet?

    um..................no! next question please.

    could they possibly screw things up any worse than they already have?

    why yes, yes they could.

    they seem bound and determined to snatch defeat in the GE from the nearly certain jaws of victory.

    The Democratic party (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by txpolitico67 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:22:32 PM EST
    has truly a vacuum in leadership.  No one knows what to do and no one knows how to stop the intra-party fighting.  I say this is going on because you have factions who's egos are so large, that they cannot see the end-game:  winning the presidency and doing what's right for the country.  Either way, the Democratic party will be the biggest losers because there is NO one coming out, or rather, bowing out, for the good of the people.  The people will finally just get fed up and abandon the party all together. Party elders beware.

    At this point, being an HRC supporter and all, I find both candidates disingenuous when it comes to their love for the country.  They love themselves more.  

    Too bad there really isn't a viable third party that could make things more about the people and less about ego.  

    The third party idea has been tried ... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by narius on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:26:12 PM EST
    at the presidential election and the only result is pouring millions and millions of dollars into the gutter.

    I don't think third parties are any good except as spoiler (think Nader) for one side or the other.

    [ Parent ]

    First time for everything.... (5.00 / 4) (#33)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:27:57 PM EST
    ...change and all that.

    [ Parent ]
    The third-party route worked well (none / 0) (#109)
    by Cream City on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:00:55 PM EST
    and won the White House only five years later for one group that got fed up with the lack of leadership in their party and in this country.

    That's the third party that won the White House in 1860.  That's the same party that will win it again this time, at this rate.

    So third parties can succeed.  It just has been a while since a group got it together well enough to do it.  Or was motivated enough.  We'll see. . . .

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry (none / 0) (#206)
    by cal1942 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:59:52 PM EST
    Cream City.  Have to disagree.  It's fashionable in some quarters to call the Republicans a 3rd party in the 1860 election but it's really a great deal more complicated than that.

    It wouldn't even be proper to call the Republicans a 3rd party in the 1856 election since the Whigs had already splintered in at least 3 directions.

    Even in 1912, with a wildly popular former President leading a third party, the result was still a loss.

    Third parties can only influence the major parties.

    My apologies, this is really off topic.

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry, but you're restating what I said (none / 0) (#226)
    by Cream City on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:33:34 PM EST
    so that you can raise 1856 and even 1912.

    I did not state that it was a third party in 1860.  Nor did I even note 1856.   I read plenty of historians, fashionable or otherwise, about the party's origins.  And that, if you read my sentence structure more closely, is the point at which I referred to the Repubs as a third party.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm Indy so I'll vote based on conscience (none / 0) (#203)
    by Ellie on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:45:49 PM EST
    Any candidate or party has to earn my trust, respect, support and vote.

    Sen Clinton has, to my surprise, done that and impressed me in ways I never would have imagined. (I was neither here nor there for her before: not with the knee-jerk haters, sympathetic for her plight as a target, but not a fan nonetheless.)

    From what I've seen of her under the guns of Obama and the Dems and media and the Repugs all blasting at her -- she's more than earned my trust, respect, support and vote.

    I'm with her all the way and if the Dems don't give her the win she's EARNED (not gamed or whined, like Obama's been doing, but won fair and square on merit and record) I'm writing her in the ballot and Dems can suck on it.

    Doesn't matter whether she, personally, or her campaign as loyal Dems approve: I'm an Indy voter.

    [ Parent ]

    A Stolen Election (5.00 / 5) (#23)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:22:49 PM EST
    If SDs decide before FL and MI are resolved it's a stolen election and any victory bestowed upon Obama at that point is rendered illegitimate.


    And Obamaphiles Will Be Crowing! (none / 0) (#111)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:02:33 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Whose keeping score? (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by white n az on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:23:27 PM EST
    You already get different answers from each network and AP, etc.

    The notion that even if these SD's did announce, that the score can be objectively tallied is silly.

    If I understand the "RULZ" (5.00 / 5) (#28)
    by angie on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:25:17 PM EST
    and granted, they keep on changing them -- even if all the SDs were to come out tomorrow for Obama, Hillary would still have the right to take it to the convention because under the "RULZ" the SDs could change their minds at any point -- right? Didn't Lewis go from endorsing Hillary to endorsing Obama? Also, it still does not solve the problem of FL & MI -- because even if the SDs give Obama now the 2025 he needs (which I don't think is possible until at least after the remaining primaries are over, but I'm not sure of the exact # of SDs left) it still would not be the "magic number" needed if FL & MI count.  Does the DNC really think it can wiggle out of being responsible for disenfranchising FL & MI just by crowning Obama prematurely?  'Cause I for one will not just forget about what they are doing. Funny, how Richarson's defense to Carville is that Clinton is the one who is acting like this is a dynasty, when it the Obama and the DNC who are against letting the people vote.

    Yeah but any part of the Roolz that.... (5.00 / 5) (#32)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:27:20 PM EST
    ...provide a valid argument for Hillary are superceded by the ones that don't. Everybody knows that. </snark>

    [ Parent ]
    Ah yes, I forgot that one! (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by angie on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:33:54 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Sure Was Easy To Pick Up MSM Talking Points.... (none / 0) (#118)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:06:34 PM EST
    Sick of that dynasty argument.

    [ Parent ]
    I Meant Easy For Richardson To Pick Up MSM Talking (none / 0) (#121)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:08:09 PM EST
    Points....they just tripped right off his tongue.
    It's a lame argument.  If you want to get technical, "The Clinton Dynasty" provided some pretty good times, even for fat-ass Richardson.

    [ Parent ]
    I feel like watching the news is a waste of my (none / 0) (#173)
    by FLVoter on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:54:28 PM EST
    time. I could just go to the Sen. Obama website and get it directly from him.  Cut out the middle man.  

    [ Parent ]
    Harry Reid (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Josey on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:28:57 PM EST
    "Sen. Reid was talking about the possibility of simply sending a letter to superdelegates after the primary process is over to encourage them to make their support known," said Rodell Mollineau, Reid's communications director.

    "His statement today was nothing more than a reiteration of his past comments that most superdelegates should be in a position after June 3rd to make a decision and make their support known. No one should read any further into it than that."

    Reid, who himself has not endorsed, said he would not rush any of the superdelegates for now.

    "People will have plenty of opportunity after the last primary on June 2 to make a decision about what they are going to do," he said.

    So what is the point of saying that now? (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by felizarte on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:47:06 PM EST
    I think they feel left out of the excitement.

    [ Parent ]
    I THINK PELOSI ENJOYS BEING THE QUEEN BEE... (1.00 / 0) (#125)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:12:10 PM EST
    ...and doesn't want to have to share with Sen. Clinton.  Pelosi currently is the most powerful woman in the land and if Sen. Clinton wins, she will lose her place.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm not crazy about the girl vs girl argument (5.00 / 0) (#142)
    by Kathy on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:22:19 PM EST
    I think Pelosi has been disappointing as a leader, but I also think that  many, many dems, both male and female, will feel the sting if Clinton gets the White House.  Their power bases will be shaken to the core.  I don't think Pelosi feels threatened because there's another strong woman in the arena, I think her actions are those of a strong politician who does not want to be usurped by another strong politician.  Gender doesn't play a part in it.

    (conversely, folks should wonder why they want Obama so badly.  Answer: because they can keep their power and control him)

    [ Parent ]

    OK Kathy, I Can Buy That Argument (none / 0) (#150)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:28:22 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    No, I don't buy that (none / 0) (#155)
    by ruffian on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:31:43 PM EST
    Pelosi represents a heavy Obama supporting district, and it would be natural for her to support him, especially since she faces a primary challenge from Cindy sheehan.

    I'm not saying that excuses her actions.

    [ Parent ]

    I think they want (none / 0) (#97)
    by Same As It Ever Was on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:58:10 PM EST
    to provide some reassurance to the donor base that there will be an effort at avoiding a contested convention.

    [ Parent ]
    Ah I think they just want to identify (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by felizarte on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:49:07 PM EST
    the individual votes for Clinton so that they can be pressured before the convention. Ha!

    [ Parent ]
    Aha! (none / 0) (#137)
    by madamab on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:19:39 PM EST
    This, I have no problem with.

    As long as Florida and MI are counted in a meaningful way.

    [ Parent ]

    So, they are supposedly concerned (none / 0) (#228)
    by 0 politico on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:52:45 PM EST
    about a split in the party.   This is because candidate supporters are getting more vocal and assertive of their preference, not because the candidates themselves are getting too nasty (unless you are for BO and can't take the competition).  This has actually been rather mild and the HC campaign has not gotten "nasty" yet, regardless of what Olberman and his ilk say.

    But, to have this "decided" before the convention, regardless of whether the leaderships is in the tank for BO, begs the question of, "Why have a convention?"  Other than to have a media covered "coronation", every other issue can be solved by committees...don't need it for the candidate to pick a VP.  Why bother.

    Frankly, I recall when conventions used to actually mean something.  Where candidates were actually nominated and conferred.  Where delegates were wooed.  

    I am not a real political junky - just work in the Beltway - but, I would feel kind of cheated and short changed.  I feel the primaries are stretched out too long, and started too early.  But, I want a reason to tune in to the convention.  Otherwise, I'll find something else to do this summer.

    And, if Harry Reid and company are looking at this as a way to force BO on us before the convention, it may be time fo rme to turn in my party card and go independent.

    [ Parent ]

    The Keystone Kops (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by cmugirl on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:30:11 PM EST
    are running the Democratic Party!

    Put the nails in the coffin now (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by BarnBabe on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:32:21 PM EST
    You know, this is how it felt when Obamania took over DK. Anyone for other than O were pushed off the site. Thrown off the island. Now it is barely disquised, we are being shoved out of the Democratic Party. What happened to helping them gain control in '06.

    I suspect they think that the arguing is allowing McCain to take control. Well, the arguing is keeping the Dems front page and they should look in the mirror. It is 'they' who are allowing McCain to take control. The fault of the loss will be at their feet.

    am I reading this wrong (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by TruthMatters on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:32:32 PM EST
    or are they saying they would step in in JUNE doesn't that mean AFTER everyone has voted?

    so what exactly is everyone upset about? this was never going to the convention. and they are once again letting it be known, in June if there isn't a clear winner the supes have to endorse.

    so what now you all want the your fundamental right to a floor fight?

    yep sounds like june to me (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by TruthMatters on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:33:59 PM EST
    Sen. Majority Leader Harry Reid took his comments about the state of the Democratic primary one step further today, suggesting that he and other prominent Democrats would intervene in the race if primary season concludes without a clear winner:


    [ Parent ]
    But what about the RULZ? (5.00 / 0) (#48)
    by angie on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:37:44 PM EST
    It is against the RULZ to force the SDs to not only choose, but "lock in their choice" before the convention.  I thought the Obama camp was a stickler for the RULZ.  Oh, yeah, as Maria Garcia pointed out up thread, the RULZ only matter when the help Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    what lock in (none / 0) (#52)
    by TruthMatters on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:40:07 PM EST
    most supers know who they want, they are just hesitant to endorse in case something happens.

    after June, what are they waiting for? they have seen these candidates for 15 months if they don't know by now which they prefer?

    you are seriously going to throw a fit because the supers have to choose the candidate in June instead of choosing the candidate 2 months later in August?

    exactly what do you think changes between June and August after everyone has already voted?

    [ Parent ]

    It is still not following the RULZ (none / 0) (#73)
    by angie on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:48:09 PM EST
    and no one has done more for the RULZ then Barack Obama, or have you forgotten that?

    [ Parent ]
    What's the deal with misspelling (none / 0) (#96)
    by magster on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:57:57 PM EST
    rules as RULZ or ROOLZ when referring to Obama's arguments about the process? What's the history behind that?  I don't get it.

    [ Parent ]
    'cause that is how the "cool" kids do it (none / 0) (#163)
    by angie on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:42:14 PM EST
    and we all know the "blogger boiz" behind Obama are superfly!

    [ Parent ]
    Rules are rules (none / 0) (#212)
    by waldenpond on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:51:15 PM EST
    Rules are actual rules.  Roolz are political spin.

    Like: DNC rules allow for a re-vote; roolz don't if Obama would lose in those re-votes.  Rules say the superdelegates are independent; roolz say they must go with the pledged delegates and endorse Obama.  Rules say that the primary process goes through June; roolz say the candidate that is picking on Obama must drop out.  Rules say nearly any one can run for President; roolz say only if that person is not a Clinton and they would beat Obama.

    [ Parent ]

    That a decision by SDs is more important (none / 0) (#45)
    by katiebird on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:36:36 PM EST
    Than seating (in some meaningful way) MI & FL?  Maybe?

    [ Parent ]
    More drinking of the Kool-Aid (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by janarchy on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:35:14 PM EST
    Looks like Reid, Pelosi and Dean are all drinking from the same keg as Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert. Let's just annoint Obama today and forget about that nasty little thing called democracy...

    Comedy Central (none / 0) (#76)
    by cannondaddy on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:49:59 PM EST
    should be proud that their "anchors" are considered Democratic Party leadership.  Or maybe the leadership should feel ashamed.

    [ Parent ]
    As long as MI and FL (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by pie on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:36:37 PM EST
    are out of the mix, the nomination will be controversial.

    Sorry, but that's the way it is.

    Let's face it, folks: (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by Jim J on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:38:21 PM EST
    We're looking at the Revenge of the Wine Track. They've waited all these decades for a candidate who may finally be able to grasp the gold ring, for once in their lifetimes.

    For them, it's personal, and it's about not only their visceral hatred and jealousy of the successful Clintons, but about class: This is their chance to "prove" once and for all that they don't need the stinking unwashed blue collar masses. Just tap internet donors, jack up AA turnout, plug and play.

    Come on, you know it's true, they've all but told us: They actively do NOT want Hillary voters in November. You know that's the subtext here, it's only coming out in the open because Obama is limping.

    its good that they dont want them (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:40:22 PM EST
    cause me thinks they are not going to get a whole bunch of them.


    [ Parent ]
    I was so excited when this all began. (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by mm on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:21:37 PM EST
    Little did I realize that in less than 3 months I'd find myself getting tossed over the side of the boat.  Little did I understand that I wouldn't belong to a party any more.

    I'm sure Dean and friends think they'll be able to heal the wounds after they've administered the coup de grace to Senator Clinton.  But it's too late for me.  That's a promise.

    [ Parent ]

    The idea that Obama (none / 0) (#54)
    by andgarden on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:40:23 PM EST
    should be any more or less preferable to the wine track must be the result of some collective psychosis.

    Anyway, Harry Reid is not a wine track Democrat.

    [ Parent ]

    I respectfully disagree (none / 0) (#59)
    by Jim J on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:43:23 PM EST
    based only on his waffling, weakness, and general lack of direction. I read all the fluff too, about him being a former boxer. I ain't buying the hype, thanks.

    [ Parent ]
    and (none / 0) (#88)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:54:43 PM EST
    Harry is supposed to be for Hillary.

    [ Parent ]
    I thought that was Kerry (none / 0) (#80)
    by ineedalife on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:52:14 PM EST
    Or was that the Windsurfer track? Are there sub-tracks in the Deanocratic Wing of the Democratic Party?

    [ Parent ]
    is it possible many Super Delegates (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by dem08 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:59:52 PM EST
    would go to Hillary now?

    There must be many Democrats looking at Obama's inability to win with the voters we all know he is anemic with.

    This move could cause Obama's downward spiral to continue & Hillary is on a roll.

    10 million dollars a day is impressive by itself; but the Media thinks it means Obama cannot win, which also helps Hillary.

    Good. Let them decide ASAP either way (none / 0) (#112)
    by Seth90212 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:02:42 PM EST
    Let's put an end to this. If they want Hillary, fine. But if they put Obama over the top, you must accept that outcome as well.

    [ Parent ]
    not the best political move (5.00 / 0) (#106)
    by DandyTIger on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:00:18 PM EST
    from these folks. Of course we all know the SD's will be pushed to decide soon after the primaries are over. And that's even fine. But to make a big political show like this is quite absurd. It's as if they have no political sense which is stunning given the position they're in. If any party can alienate and disenfranchise their members and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, it's these guys.

    We used to say, I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat. Now that they seem to have organized, many around here are now saying I'm an independent. Perhaps they should have stayed disorganized.

    how truly upsetting is it (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by ccpup on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:06:31 PM EST
    to no longer be shocked to see the words dumb, Pelosi, Reid and Dean in the same sentence.

    Once upon a time, I'd be incensed that someone would call them "dumb".  Now it's just a "yeah, what else is new?" type of deal.

    God forbid the strongest candidate win, right Pelosi, Reid and Dean?

    Pull your greedy mouths off the spigot and step away from that big, red, talking, giggling pitcher who has a penchant for bursting through walls unannounced and no one gets hurt.

    Strongest or most votes? (none / 0) (#129)
    by Rashomon66 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:13:19 PM EST
    God forbid the strongest candidate win, right Pelosi, Reid and Dean?

    God forbid we go back to the 19th century when backroom deals decided who was the best candidate and the voters had no say.
    I'll agree the primary system is not perfect. But if the voters choose Obama in this process then so be it.

    [ Parent ]

    Backroom deals were done before the (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by Joan in VA on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:55:48 PM EST