Sunday Talk Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Media
Posted on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:32:28 AM EST
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By Big Tent Democrat

I think this might be an interesting week of Sunday Talk. Because of the ABC Debate Brouhaha. I will be keeping an eye on Meet the Press but especially, George Steph's This Week program. They start at 9:00 am my time (EST).

Let's make this an Open Thread as well.

McCain is on ABC. Clinton pollster Geoff Garin and Obama's David Axelrod is on MTP. So far it is all pat and boring. Same old same old.

Axelrod is arguing for Clinton to quit. Though of course he says "it is her decision." Yadda yadda imo.

Garin ripostes to Axelrod's complaints about the "kitchen sink" by pointing out the Obama campaign has been ad dirty as any time in the campaign this weekend. Point to Garin.

Axelrod patronizing Garin. This is boring though. It is not interesting.

On ABC, Steph is grilling McCain on his flip flops on taxes. McCain gives us this in response "I can change the way we do business. I can control spending." Sound familiar?

Let me say that Garin is a universe better than Mark Penn ever was in these things. But this is a useless exercise. I am switching off MTP.

On McCain's health care plan, Steph asks about the preexisting condition loophole for insurance companies in the McCain plan. McCain slams "mandates." Sound familiar? On health care, McCain sounds like Obama.

Patriotism going to be an issue? Steph quotes Rove. McCain says he is sure that Obama is patriotic but brings up Ayers. Translation, patriotism is going to be an "issue" if the GOP has its way.

Iran. McCain wants stronger sanctions through a "league of democracies." He is confident sanctions can work. Not quite "bomb bomb bomb Iran" today.

FINAL ENTRY - This was a complete waste of time. Boring and stupid. I do not recommend watching any of the Sunday shows.

< Tiny Tent Dems: Hope and Change, Forget the Unity | Is Obama Trying To Depress White Turnout In PA? >

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Sunday Talk Open Thread | 38 comments (38 topical)

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In Insomnia, veritas (she misquote) (5.00 / 3) (#6)
by dianem on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 08:08:54 AM EST

Great story from a few weeks ago in the NYT> about Axelrod. I've

"Axelrod has worked through Obama's life story again and again, scouring it for usable political material, and he believes that some basic themes come through: that he is "not wedded to any ideological frame or dogma," that he is "an outsider rather than someone who's spent years in the dens of Georgetown," that he is an "agent for change" and has the optimism and dynamism of a fresh, young face. Axelrod knows that each of these characteristics has its flip side -- optimism can be read as naïveté, independence as ideological unmooredness, unjadedness for a lack of experience and bipartisanship as an instinct to avoid necessary combat."

Interesting quote. He highlights Obama's pluses and minuses quite effectively. He doesn't shirk. But look at his pluses, which translate to: No ideals, no experience, no message, but looks good.

There is also a fascinating story about how Hillary Clinton helped raise funds for an epilepsy foundation that helped Axelrod's child. The article isn't very critical of Axelrod, but it paints an interesting picture.

I'm in NYC (5.00 / 2) (#9)
by themomcat on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 08:28:43 AM EST

and the Pope is on the prowl. Traffic is horrendous, even mass transit has been a mess. It is Full Moon, Passover, NYC pay day and Der Panzer Papen had to come to town this week? By the way, on all 3 network channels (CBS, NBC, & ABC) it is the Pope 24/7 and no different this am.
/ "By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes." Macbeth, Wm. Shakespeare

Good thing Bush gave the pope (none / 0) (#14)
by Kathy on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 08:58:10 AM EST

immunity so he could come back to the US without fear of being subpoenaed in one of the many pedophile priest trials.

Boy, these guys sure know how to take care of each other!

[ Parent ]

The Pope is a Head of State (none / 0) (#15)
by FlaDemFem on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 09:16:22 AM EST

so he has automatic diplomatic immunity. The State he is head of is the Vatican, which is the smallest in terms of area. It is in Rome, but has its own laws, police(Swiss Guard), etc. separate from the Italian state. Interesting set up. It gives the Pope not only all the perks and privileges of being Pope, but the office of head of state as well. So, he doesn't need Bush to give him cover, international law does that already. Of course, Bush doesn't recognize international laws, so he may have given him immunity anyway. Lord knows, Bush is stupid enough, and crass enough, to do it.

Of course, you probably know this already, right?? :D

[ Parent ]

somewhat (none / 0) (#18)
by Kathy on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 09:42:23 AM EST

The U.S. government has told a Texas court that Pope Benedict XVI should be given immunity from a lawsuit accusing him of conspiring to cover up the sexual molestation of three boys by a seminarian, court documents show.

Ratzinger was served before he was pope. He was instrumental (allegedly, I should say) in helping cover up a lot of the abuse scandals. From the Guardian:

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger "issued an order ensuring the church's investigations into sex abuse claims be carried out in secret." The order was sent to American bishops in May 2001 and "asserted the church's right to hold its inquiries behind closed doors and keep the evidence confidential for up to 10 years after the victims reached adulthood."

[ Parent ]

Yes, but under international law (5.00 / 1) (#22)
by FlaDemFem on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:30:06 AM EST

Cardinal Ratzinger is not around any more, the Pope is. And no matter what Texas, or the US government think, he cannot be served or arrested while head of state. Period. So they will have to wait until he is out of office. Heh.

[ Parent ]

Maybe he and Bush (none / 0) (#27)
by Kathy on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:26:56 AM EST

can share a cell at the Hague.

[ Parent ]

But (none / 0) (#28)
by cmugirl on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:30:57 AM EST

Since he is Pope until he dies - don't count on it.

[ Parent ]

: Bingo! (none / 0) (#30)
by Kathy on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:40:27 AM EST

Since he is Pope until he dies - don't count on it.
See ya at the Hague.

[ Parent ]

Easy guys.... (none / 0) (#23)
by kdog on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:52:44 AM EST

you might offend the Catholic League:)

[ Parent ]

I wonder if George will mention (5.00 / 2) (#11)
by Josey on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 08:34:00 AM EST

Obama looked straight into the camera and lied about his handwriting on that 1996 survey.
btw - has Obama's lie been mentioned by any media?

Heatbreaking (5.00 / 2) (#16)
by flashman on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 09:20:22 AM EST

I'm watching a report from Ben Stein about all the pets abondoned in the homes that are being lost in the mortage/housing meltdown. Real estate agents are finding dogs and cats left in these homes, starving, whimperin and waiting for thier family to return. Local animal shelters are being overwhelmed with the abondoned pets. They've done nothing but offer their love, and are the most suffered.

That's cold.... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by kdog on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:55:21 AM EST

if I hit rock bottom, my dog is still getting half my grub.

We can sniff out the good dumpsters together:)

Though my heart bleeds a little more for the homeless kids than the abandoned pets.

[ Parent ]

: I'm with you (5.00 / 1) (#35)
by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:30:01 PM EST

You never abandon those who were with you through thick and thin. After all how are you going to even FIND the good dumpsters without the dog. I would NEED them.

[ Parent ]

Young whippersnappers! (none / 0) (#19)
by Fabian on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 09:46:51 AM EST

Back when I was kid, we'd get other people's pets after they were dumped on some dirt road. I guess people don't care enough to even do that nowadays.
[/snark]

BTW - the average pet dumped in the country somewhere is probably going to die - either by auto, predation, disease or starvation. Country folks already have plenty of critters to feed and take care of.

[ Parent ]

PA AA Leaders support HRC Urban Agenda (5.00 / 1) (#32)
by nycstray on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:38:44 PM EST

I missed this the other day . . .

4/18/2008
AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY LEADERS IN PA SUPPORT HILLARY CLINTON's URBAN AGENDA
Philadelphia, PA-African American community leaders from across Pennsylvania today voiced their support for Hillary Clinton's Urban Agenda and urged voters to support her on April 22nd.
Hillary's agenda for lifting up America's cities provides education and opportunity to youth in urban cities; encourages more economic opportunity; invests in urban areas; fights crime and violence; tackles poverty; and rebuilds crumbling physical infrastructure. Members of the African American community are praising Hillary Clinton for taking the lead in addressing the issues that are of great concern in urban communities.

http://tinyurl.com/42v5mx

Your time is EST? (none / 0) (#1)
by Fabian on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:40:06 AM EST

I had that wrong!

I am also wondering what Sunday Talk will be like although I don't watch those shows. Right now it's Word Girl on PBS.

Where I am it starts at 9 (none / 0) (#2)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:41:00 AM EST

: Okay. (none / 0) (#4)
by Fabian on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:46:36 AM EST

I was definitely under the impression that you post late my time(Eastern whatever). I often get up at 3-4 am EWT so I'm usually reading the last post of the previous day then.

[ Parent ]
: Would you set your time stamp (none / 0) (#20)
by Joan in VA on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 09:51:43 AM EST

to EDT? It's somewhat confusing. Thanks.

[ Parent ]

Well, here's an interesting crime discussion (none / 0) (#3)
by boredmpa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:41:05 AM EST

short on details, but are photoshopped heads child porn? Felony offenses? Do they warrant local tv mug shots?

article

heh, and yeah i should probably be rated 1, troll. but it is an open thread.

Yes it is (none / 0) (#10)
by RTwilight on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 08:28:44 AM EST

the child porn laws were updated specificly to cover this type of case...it essentially makes any material that could be reasonably construed as depicting a minor, real or not, illegal...also any seemingly harmless kid pics advertised as being erotic, or of age pics advertised as underaged.

[ Parent ]

: interesting (none / 0) (#38)
by boredmpa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:04:12 PM EST

IANAL or a cop, so that's news to me...I was interested in the policy and punishment aspect.
policy:
that makes sense from an enforcement perspective--since you don't have to prove it involves actual children. And it does close some pretty big loopholes that would be exploited by producers.
punishment:
However, he didn't distribute and there were no other claims about porn or abuse. Should he be registered as a sex offender? Yes. Years in prison? I dunno about that without distribution or real porn that damaged the children.
To me the case clearly seemed grounds for divorce, an investigation to make sure there was no abuse, and mandatory counseling.
But the ultimate sentencing term, I dunno.

[ Parent ]

Gallup Daily Tracking: Clinton Back on Top! (none / 0) (#5)
by Exeter on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:48:15 AM EST

It amazes me (5.00 / 6) (#7)
by dianem on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 08:15:36 AM EST

Clinton has taken hit after hit after hit, while Obama has been shielded by the media for every miscue and misjudgement, but she is still in the race. I realized why when I watched the debate. She was smart, prepared, and expressive. When she got thrown the "gotcha" question about gun laws in New York you could tell that she was ready. She reacted like the student who see's a test question that is their most studied topic. She was smiling, confident, ready, and friendly. She got a few gentle jibes into Obama, although it wasn't the punchfest some made it out to be. Mostly, she answered the questions and did it well, whether those questions were trivial or important. She knows that in the white house you have to deal with crap a lot of the time and you have to stay focused on the big stuff.

She is GOOD. People saw that. And then, standing next to her, they saw a stumbling, uncomfortable man who was supposed to be a legendary communicator. And later, he was whining about how unfair it all was.

[ Parent ]

: The feeling I got when I watched the debate was (5.00 / 3) (#17)
by Serene1 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 09:36:46 AM EST

that of Pride. Pride in Hillary. Here is this woman, who is very knowlegeable, smart and yet knows how to fight well and neatly without any bloodshed. The way she gave it to Obama was something, at no point did she look or feel aggressive and she knew how to receive her blows also without getting nervous.
Isn't she exactly the type of candidate the country needs right now.

[ Parent ]

This (5.00 / 6) (#8)
by nell on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 08:27:29 AM EST

is what happens every time the public is able to see her unfiltered, she gets a huge poll bounce, which is why Obama likes to avoid debates with her at all costs. His entire campaign is built on Hillary hate, disguised as hope and change, unless you are for Hillary, in which case you can go to hell (doing a visibility event in PA yesterday, I cannot even say how many times some punk teenager screamed demeaning expletives followed by Obama 08).

The media's constant pounding of Hillary and kid gloves treatment of Obama has allowed him to be successful, but without that kind of bias, he is going to go nowhere good...thinking forward to the general election IF he is the nominee, this cannot be good. People like her when she is unfiltered through the media lens and they see how smart she is.

[ Parent ]

If by some quirk (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by themomcat on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 08:34:02 AM EST

of fate Sen. Clinton gets the nomination, she should ask for and agree to every debate offered and should suggest more. She should go on every talk show she can get book on, every day and night. She should make herself available to reporters and journalists. She will make John McCain look like what he is, McBush.
/ "By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes." Macbeth, Wm. Shakespeare
[ Parent ]

: Agreed (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by nell on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 08:35:59 AM EST

in fact, I wish she would start doing media blitzes now, though I think she does do them more locally. However, she will be on Larry King on Monday night, which is good since he should throw her mostly softball questions.

[ Parent ]

After Watching This Poll For Weeks (none / 0) (#33)
by flashman on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:05:29 PM EST

this is a beautiful thing to behold.

[ Parent ]

Why not challenge Obama on the economy (none / 0) (#21)
by ExpatElaine on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 09:58:45 AM EST

I can understand why the Clinton campaign is now avoiding too many reminders of the Clinton administration because of the way Obama has re-hashed all the right-wing attacks on the administration and the ambivalence re free trade agreements. But surely, some ads should point out how ludicrous it is to present the economic situation for 'ordinary people' as well as on a macro-level under Clinton and Bush as the same.
Why not hammer Obama's feeble economic plans and response to the mortgage crisis, why not point out that the level of deficit Bush has run up is in stark contrast to the Clinton years?
I think this matters in Pa.

(BTW I also 'know' that Clinton was widely respected internationally: in Europe, (aside from the usual opposition) his intervention re Kosovo was critical. In East Timor, his pressure on the Indonesians was decisive in saving tens of thousands of lives. And so it could go on).

Watch out National League.... (none / 0) (#25)
by kdog on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:58:23 AM EST

the Mets are warming up.....the kids Reyes and Wright are on fire while Pelfrey and home town boy Figeroa have soldified the rotation in Pedro's abscence.

Break out the brooms today in Philly...I smell sweep!

It is a sad state of affairs (none / 0) (#26)
by kenosharick on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:03:47 AM EST

when FOX actually is the most "fair and balanced" Sunday show. They actually showed the gallup tracking poll, while it was ignored by the others. I would also like the media to take notice of his possible lie about that form he said he did not fill out. You can bet the repubs have noticed.

TL as public service (none / 0) (#29)
by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:36:01 AM EST

It has reached the point where I do not dare go to other "sites", even the regular press has gotten ugly. I am sure I will recover. But I use people here like canaries in a mine. You guys fly out there find the stuff and glean through it. I use TL as a filter. I know, I know it's wrong. But I trust the people here and I agree with Kathy's take on polls. I only look at the ones that favor my candidate.

So, a big thank you to all.

MSNBC reporters ticking off each others... (none / 0) (#31)
by TalkRight on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:56:55 AM EST

Joe Scarborough Walks Off MSNBC's "Race To The White House" After Exchange With Rachel Maddow:

I didn't watch any of the Sunday (none / 0) (#34)
by stillife on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:27:58 PM EST

talking head shows, but I just read this amusing quote from David Axelrod on MTP, "I don't know anyone that is more patriotic than Barack Obama."

Just add that to the "no one has done more" list.

Did anyone tell him (none / 0) (#36)
by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:33:33 PM EST

he needs to get out more? I assume he has a narrow circle of friends if he "doesn't know anyone" blah-blah-blah

[ Parent ]

: Well, compared to Wright (none / 0) (#37)
by stillife on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:37:12 PM EST

and Ayers, he's probably speaking the truth!

[ Parent ]