Boehlert's Revenge: Now They Notice?

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Media
Posted on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:53:04 PM EST
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By Big Tent Democrat

There is something incredibly galling about all the new harrumphing from these august figures about what ABC did in Wednesday's debate. The galling part is not the protest of the ABC Debate, which was a travesty. The galling part was the shameful and inexcusable silence from these same figures when it was NBC performing the travesties. Shame on the signatories to that letter, not for signing that letter, but for not signing one about NBC earlier. You have no credibility to complain now. None.

It is obvious that each and every one of those signatories do not give a fig about good journalism. The only thing they care about is St. Barack Obama and not blowing their chances to be on Countdown. This is Boehlert's Revenge:

What’s happening online now is potentially dangerous: HRC has gotten dreadful press, not fair, “gotcha,” and so on — there’s a portion of the blogosphere that has ignored that and there’s a portion that has encouraged that.

It’s dangerous because the media criticism has to be consistent and relentless, and we can’t very well say, “You can’t go after our candidates … except this one.” I get nervous about pushback regarding disingenuous coverage - our response needs to be, “You can’t treat Democrats this way.” When people in the left blogosphere are quoting an anonymous Matt Drudge source, it makes me nervous.

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Boehlert's Revenge: Now They Notice? | 70 comments (70 topical)

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You read my mind (5.00 / 0) (#1)
by andgarden on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:54:15 PM EST

When I saw Ezra's post on the letter, I thought exactly this:

Shame on the signatories to that letter, not for signing that letter, but for not signing one about NBC earlier.

My comment to Ezra: (5.00 / 2) (#60)
by jawbone on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 06:56:08 PM EST

I was looking for the link to the letter you all sent about how the Mainstream Corporate Media, especially MSNBC and NBC, treated Hillary Clinton back in October...and I couldn't find it.

Surely you wrote one, right?

Can you reprint that letter and give a link for it, Ezra?

Thnx.


Once v/s Pattern (none / 0) (#14)
by TalkRight on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:13:10 PM EST

He was asked few tough question right or not this happened just once (can we not give the moderators benefit of doubt).. Where as in case of Obama News Network it was a pattern that could be seen every day in and out and worse with some inflammatory commentary from Chris Matthiew's, Keith Oberman, Daved Shuster, et all. They are the worlds worst hypocrite's! Worst person in the world... (keith ??)


20 tough minutes for him (5.00 / 2) (#49)
by Cream City on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:12:02 PM EST

vs. 21 tough debates for her, as she didn't get off easy this week, either.

Obama is a whiny wimp. When even Jonah Goldberg, gasp, gets it -- I never read or see his stuff, but his column was in our local paper this week, and I still had to finish my cup of coffee, so. . . .

Goldberg wrote that the Clintons were formed by the '60s but the Obamas by the '80s, that they're yuppies of the privileged, self-important "Me Generation" -- that did not like the '90s, when more of the unwashed made it into the middle class, too. It really rang true and explained a lot for me.


there have only been (5.00 / 2) (#54)
by Salo on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:32:43 PM EST

three debates with less than three playas.

the 7 contestant debates were not really tough for anyone--It wa sbest to have as little time as possible in those monstererous things.

Obama was served crwam puff after cream puff until yesterday.


: Oh rilly? The October debate with Russert (5.00 / 1) (#58)
by Cream City on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 06:21:35 PM EST

getting most (all but one joined in) of the eight guys to gang up on Clinton, as Russert asked them what they thought of her? Looked tough to me.

Everytime I read: St. Obama, (none / 0) (#66)
by oculus on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:21:46 AM EST

I immed. think of Saint Maybe by Ann Tyler. Ubt there seems to be no nexus.


Am I wrong to think that their behavior.... (5.00 / 3) (#2)
by Maria Garcia on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:58:44 PM EST

...is bordering on intimidation? And it might work, there's no reason to believe that uncommitted superdelegates are particularly courageous. I'm just suddenly worried that this loud flexing of muscles from Obama supporters is going to backfire in the GE.

Testing their political clout. (5.00 / 2) (#4)
by oldpro on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:04:07 PM EST

Putting down what they think is a marker.

In this case, as BTD has pointed out, "better late than never" doesn't fly.


: yes (5.00 / 2) (#8)
by TalkRight on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:06:12 PM EST

Its intimidation with arrogance. I think Obama and his supporters will soon alienate others who differ from them even by an iota that everyone will realize that would be almost impossible to work with fanatics like these.

: The editors at the various channels (5.00 / 2) (#31)
by Salo on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:26:11 PM EST

will bin this hypocritical defense of Obama.
They know exactly what happened and they know thier previous hatchet jobs on other Derms were cheeered by these same signatories in earlier months.

I guess it depends on the SD (5.00 / 1) (#6)
by cmugirl on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:04:34 PM EST

All the House members are SD's (that are Dem) - they too, are up for re-election this year, so are Mark Pryor, Dick Durbin, Mary Landrieu, Joe Biden, John Kerry, Tom Harkin, Max Baucus, Carl Levin, Frank Lautenberg, Jack Reed, Jay Rockefeller, and TIm Johnson from the Senate - watch their endorsements.


: Baucus might be leaning Hillary, (5.00 / 1) (#52)
by eleanora on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:26:51 PM EST

but he said won't endorse until after our primary June 3rd. According to friends who attended the dinner Obama and Clinton spoke at in MT, Max asked John Melcher (our former D senator of little renown) why he endorsed Obama. Melcher went on about how inspiring Obama is and how much he'll change politics. But Max was apparently unimpressed after he'd found out Melcher couldn't cite any specific Obama policies or resume items and had in fact only met him that very day. I love policy wonks.

The real gotcha politics (5.00 / 4) (#5)
by TalkRight on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:04:14 PM EST

An AP article "Clinton's odds of winning now slimmer than ever." quotes

"She undercut her own claim in Wednesday night's debate, answering `yes, yes, yes' when asked whether her rival could win the White House."

But didn't Obama say the same .. I am totally confused.

but (5.00 / 3) (#9)
by proudliberaldem on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:06:36 PM EST

if she hadn't said that she'd be an evil Republican intent on tearing the party down. it makes me want to tear my hair out.

thank you, btd, for pointing out the hypocrisy.


Exactly. (5.00 / 3) (#12)
by madamab on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:10:41 PM EST

I thought they'd shut up about how evil she was after she said he could win.

Nope, turns out it just proves that she can't win.

Ah, life in Obamaworld.


It makes me want to write a book. (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by Salo on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:14:28 PM EST

and write down a list of Dems who enabled this.

If Obama loses in the general election, that list should be used to shame a little bit of contrition out of the guilty party.


When Obama loses (5.00 / 2) (#17)
by myiq2xu on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:16:32 PM EST

the Boiz will say "It's Hillary's fault."


No (5.00 / 0) (#21)
by Salo on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:18:00 PM EST

Their reputations will suffer terminal and painful damage.


: Oh! How I wish this would come true (nt) (5.00 / 2) (#50)
by cymro on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:20:33 PM EST

Already being done. (5.00 / 4) (#24)
by madamab on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:18:43 PM EST

Everything bad that happens to Obama is HRC's fault. Even the fact that he answered neither the substantive nor the "gotcha" questions well on Wednesday night was her fault.

She didn't step in and prevent them from being mean to him, you know.

The illogic is stunning.


: tactical situationism? (5.00 / 1) (#30)
by Salo on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:24:09 PM EST

deriving and detourning?

: I love the meme (5.00 / 1) (#41)
by myiq2xu on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:47:45 PM EST

that goes:
"She didn't lay a glove on him"
while simultaneously arguing:
"She's keecapping him for November."

: And Obama did lump Hillary in with Gibson and (5.00 / 2) (#61)
by jawbone on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 06:58:46 PM EST

Li'l George when saying the debate was terrible, bcz they attacked him.
Hillary must have been using her amazing Jedi mind control on the two moderators....

I plan to wait for the movie, by (5.00 / 1) (#67)
by oculus on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:23:56 AM EST

BTD and Molly Bloom.


good idea (none / 0) (#20)
by proudliberaldem on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:17:02 PM EST

and probably more constructive than tearing ones hair out . . . also less messy.


: I would tear mine out (none / 0) (#43)
by myiq2xu on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:48:50 PM EST

but there's none left.

Selective reporting (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by stillife on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:13:49 PM EST

Lou Dobbs was all over this yesterday, pointing out that Obama also said the same thing about Hillary. Of course, Lou can afford to be impartial; he doesn't have a dog in this fight b/c all 3 candidates don't measure up to his nutty ideas on illegal immigrants. But I appreciate honesty wherever I can find it these days.

I've had a low opinion of the MSM for years, but I truly despise them now.


don't watch dobbs but maybe (5.00 / 1) (#26)
by english teacher on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:19:51 PM EST

you can say whether he gives the first clinton administration credit for cracking down on employers. bush has done squat, and this "problem" really didn't approach the hysteria phase it has now reached until bush took office. i'm quite sure that dobb's would have liked more aggressive measures, but compared to bush or obama, dobb's might feel that a return to the first clinton administration's enforcement against empolyers might be the best thing he can get?


: I don't watch Dobbs (5.00 / 1) (#33)
by stillife on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:27:32 PM EST

regularly enough to know what he says about the Clinton Administration re: illegal immigration, but he does criticize the employers who enable illegal immigration.
Funny thing - slightly OT, sorry! - my mom, who is a fervent Obama supporter, used to love Lou Dobbs. I asked her how she feels about him these days, and she denies that she ever liked him! I think she's been partaking of a certain beverage. ;)

I saw a clip of him tearing into (none / 0) (#71)
by hairspray on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:50:35 PM EST

an older male commentator who was trying to tell him that Hillary had no chance yada,yada. Lou nailed him with facts and made the guy back off. I only disagree with Dobbs on some of his strident immigration rants. But I have seen him tear into investment people and corporatists over outsourcing and ruining the middle class. He is pretty solid on that and I don't see anyone else bringing up what is going on in this country regarding the obscene wealth gap


Outrage over this debate outrage!! (none / 0) (#23)
by TalkRight on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:18:19 PM EST

Where was the outrage when (5.00 / 8) (#7)
by myiq2xu on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:05:58 PM EST

Russert and Gregory were ganging up on Hillary back in October?

Where were the blogger boiz during the first 20+ debates?

H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y

: That's what all the editors will say (5.00 / 2) (#28)
by Salo on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:21:22 PM EST

"Where were these self aggrandizing bloggeratti arses when Edwards and Clinton were dinged in the same manner by the same tactics. haw haw? Jolly good fun what?"

Indeed (5.00 / 3) (#10)
by stillife on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:08:36 PM EST

I'd have some sympathy for the outrage over the meanies at ABC, if it weren't coming from the same camp that supported, implicitly or explicitly, months of Hillary-bashing by the MSM because (to paraphrase the charming Barbara Bush) it worked out rather well for their candidate.

I guess I'm just "bitter", but my response to them would be the same gesture that Obama used in his speech yesterday.

Fact of the matter is, the media is full of cr*p. If the Obama Nation can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen. This is nothing compared to what he would get in the GE.

Dear Ezra... (5.00 / 5) (#13)
by kredwyn on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:10:48 PM EST

Go read the Daily Howler. Not just the current ones...go back a ways. Go back and read the analysis of the media re: Gore.

That you've just now discovered something that's been going on for a very long time...that's telling.

: I can't say this enough (5.00 / 3) (#18)
by stillife on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:16:41 PM EST

Bob Somerby and Eric Boehlert are my heroes, as are BTD and Jeralyn, for providing shelter from the storm of this increasingly crazy election season.

: Nah he didn't start noticing today. (5.00 / 2) (#19)
by Salo on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:16:57 PM EST

He just started using it to defend the choice he made.

Glenn Greenwald gives credit (5.00 / 3) (#22)
by Fabian on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:18:03 PM EST

where credit is due.

myiq2xu
Glenn: You have been consistent
but it wasn't until Obama was the target that the outrage appeared in the lefty blogs.
When the boys at MSNBC were beating up on Hillary, where were the other big bloggers?
As you note, I wrote about the horrific media coverage towards Hillary. Digby probably wrote about that more than any writer in America. Media Matters covered it extensively. Many other bloggers did, too.
To the extent you're suggesting that some pro-Obama bloggers, including ones with a large audience, have overlooked or even approved of slimy right-wing-style media attacks on Hillary, I couldn't agree more. But it's also true that some pro-Hillary bloggers have countenanced similar attacks on Obama.
-- GlennGreenwald

I was glad that more than one blogger covered the slams against Hillary in the debates. Some bloggers are consistently great - no matter what. Integrity is a wonderful thing.

With due respect to Glenn (5.00 / 2) (#48)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:09:50 PM EST

This is BS

"Many other bloggers did, too."

No they did not. And Greenwald himself said NOTHING about what was happening in the blogs. He was logrolling, just like the Media.

Sorry, the lack of courage in the blogs, including Digbty on this, was striking.


: Well, I know that (none / 0) (#59)
by Fabian on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 06:53:11 PM EST

some of us on dkos noticed the crap on the early debates. I don't know who wrote the diary, although it's unlikely to be a Front Pager, but in one of the early debates the moderators asked leading questions which essentially were "I am now going to ASK you to attack one of your opponents.".
More than one commenter was appalled. The point of a debate is not supposed to be a cage match for entertainment, but to inform the public. Perhaps it was dhonig, perhaps it was a Hillary supporter. I don't remember. I do remember it was early in the race. No one called for a boycott or mass protest. It was early in the race, and things were far too uncertain to risk bad publicity for any candidate. Too much at stake, too little to gain.
I have to admit disappointment at Digby. She apparently accepts the ABC protest as being more than an Obama movement. I'd be more impressed if the protesters went after any media outlet that repeatedly dissed either Democratic candidate.
What the heck - we've got the weekend ahead of us. Let's see what the Sunday talkies say and the blogosphere's response to them. Ought to be.....enlightening.

: Courage is a rare commodity (none / 0) (#64)
by lily15 on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 12:44:57 AM EST

and hypocrisy is cheap. In fact, it cheapens them all, including Greenwald and Digby et al...how strange they do not get the connection...or do not choose to acknowledge the damage they do to progressive politics. Is it really all about their respective egos? How is it that there are so few courageous ones? And that we now deem it courageous to be consistent and honest is also rather amazing.
The damage these progressive hypocrites are doing is stunning. It dilutes the strength of us all. It is really a matter of will that I will vote Democratic. Because the impulse to vote McCain just to punish these false progressives is almost overpowering.

: Are you sure re Digby? (none / 0) (#68)
by oculus on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:26:08 AM EST

I recall reading some of her posts pointing out the disparity of treatment.
P.S. "logrolling": great word.

What Hillary Blogs? (none / 0) (#36)
by Salo on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:29:56 PM EST

And What Hillary Bloggers?

Hillary Bloggers only surfaced after she had string of defeats.

Most of them, are fighting an ad hoc rear guard after the losses of supertuesday.


It seems forgotten (5.00 / 2) (#25)
by nellre on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:19:32 PM EST

How did our candidates do in the debate?
Is it irrelevant now?
And since all the debates have something in common, they were unfair to one of more of the candidates...are all those debates irrelevant?

Wouldn't that mean we'd need to finally host a debate where just issues were discussed?
Anybody think Obama would come out on top of that one?

Obama hasn't forgotten (5.00 / 2) (#29)
by kmblue on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:21:40 PM EST

He's not going to debate anymore!


If this was known to be the last debate (5.00 / 1) (#34)
by Salo on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:27:59 PM EST

they wwere more or less obliged to bring up Rezko Auchi Ayers and other controvecial RW Talking points, just so we could see how Obama might theoretically handle the barbs.


: It wasn't known (none / 0) (#40)
by kmblue on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:45:16 PM EST

Obama announced today he wouldn't debate
anymore.

Hillary came on MSNBC even after the (5.00 / 1) (#35)
by TalkRight on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:28:02 PM EST

Chris Mathews and David Shusters horrible and deplorable comments... but it takes courage...


: Courage (5.00 / 2) (#44)
by ahazydelirium on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:50:42 PM EST

She has plenty of it. It's what makes her face hostile crowds as both a speaker (at events) and a candidate (with the ravings of hateful blogosphere).

I don't happen to think that ABC (5.00 / 2) (#27)
by MichaelGale on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:20:47 PM EST

was any worse than NBC. In fact, NBC was just plain ignorant with their smirks and games. NBC targeted Hillary. And again, I say it was disgusting; she is my choice.

I do not care that it is assumed that Obama was targeted by ABC. I cheered every question. That is how much contempt that I have for this election and the Obamanation blogs.

In addition, to state that OBama was asked questions that should not have be asked is absurd, in my opinion. Wright? You bet. Rezko? Absolutely. Ayers? Yes.

I say to ABC thank you.

: the incredible part (5.00 / 0) (#53)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:30:25 PM EST

is that those questions have not been asked until now.

: Agreed (none / 0) (#65)
by lily15 on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 12:46:58 AM EST

: I think the combo of Ayers and (none / 0) (#69)
by oculus on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:27:20 AM EST

coke will make McCain our next Pres.

It all just sounds like whining from them now (5.00 / 1) (#37)
by Militarytracy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:32:04 PM EST

Even Clinton's response makes them all sound like whiny little brats. As far as Countdown goes though, anybody can be on Countdown. I bet if I got naked and set my hair on fire in protest of the Iraq War and streaked through Fort Rucker I could be on Countdown too. Even friggin Bill O has been on Countdown. Great lotta good it did him ;) In a little while you'll be on Countdown explaining stuff to those who need splaining....God how will we live with you then?

I signed the Moveon petition (5.00 / 1) (#38)
by blogtopus on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:32:14 PM EST

and I left this comment on it:

"If anyone actually takes the time to read this, I'd like to thank George Stephanopolous for being balanced in its treatment of both candidates. Now, if you could treat both candidate equally fair, that would be an improvement. My name on this petition is an affirmation of ABC, not a condemnation."

can we put one of those together (5.00 / 2) (#39)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:39:39 PM EST

to condemn the conduct of Left Blogistan in the last few months?
I will sign.

: Now That Is A Petition I Would Definitely Sign n/t (5.00 / 1) (#45)
by MO Blue on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:51:49 PM EST

No debates, no press conferences (5.00 / 3) (#42)
by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:48:22 PM EST

sound familiar? Hmm. Only the packaged him or the demi preacher him being crass.

Imagine (5.00 / 1) (#47)
by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:55:08 PM EST

Imagine if these folks put one tenth of this energy to fighting the war. Do you think they could have done something?

Nope, they've always noticed (5.00 / 0) (#51)
by Radix on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:25:55 PM EST

it just didn't matter because the MSM was only hitting Hillary. Did this letter they wrote include in comments about unfair coverage during the earlier debates?

The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle . . . (5.00 / 1) (#56)
by Doc Rock on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 06:01:14 PM EST

. . . shows us that when you try to measure something, inevitably, the very act of measurement, causes some change in what is being measured. Poll internals such as the order of questions, the neutrality of questions, impact of wording in the questions in activating prejudices of respondents (i.e., hitting hot buttons), etc., all may push a poll in one or another direction, unintentionally. Furthermore, the prejudices of the poll's designers will, invariably emerge in some ways even in the most carefully crafted survey.

The best thing to read on the subject (5.00 / 1) (#57)
by gish720 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 06:03:31 PM EST

of the MSNBC debate conducted by Brian Williams and Tim Russert wherein those two moderators invited the candidates to attack Hillary Clinton (and we heard not word one of complaint from this list of righteously enraged bloggers on this list)is Bob Somerby's Oct 1, 2007 dailyhowler.com

Gosh, I made a mistake (5.00 / 1) (#62)
by gish720 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 08:38:19 PM EST

the dailyhowler.com about that debate is Oct. 31, 2007. It's really an excellent take on that astonishing debate performance by Russert and Williams. He calls them Russert and his trophy wife Brian Williams.

There is a Very Simple (5.00 / 1) (#70)
by bob h on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 05:25:19 AM EST

solution to all this for coming elections-do not employ ABC, NBC, or any commercial enterprise to handle the debates. Turn them over to Jim Lehrer and his friends at PBS.

Obama needs to stop whinning... (none / 0) (#3)
by Maise7 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:02:45 PM EST

This is what they (Obama supporters) told Hillary when she mentioned the unfair treatment during one of the NBC debates.

: The difference is (5.00 / 0) (#46)
by ahazydelirium on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:53:04 PM EST

even in those debates slanted AGAINST Hillary she STILL did better: she brought the debate back to issues and policy, she demonstrated an above average knowledge and she carried herself with a dignified, firm air.
What's Obama's excuse this time around?

A travesty indeed, but one (none / 0) (#11)
by bslev22 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:08:36 PM EST

that should be ridiculed and ultimately ignored. We who have been living the campaign understand the hypocrisy of the signatories. Yes, Boehlert's revenge of course, but the best and more universal revenge is that I submit that nobody in the real world will give a hoot about this petition, and that would include the refs whom the petitioners are trying to work with their folly. Still it is a shame.

It presents a real quandry (none / 0) (#55)
by msobel on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:55:32 PM EST

If we don't protest bad treatment by the media against St. Obama then we are guilty of the same thing the Obamaholics do.

The real problem here of course is that St. Obama was treated like he was a woman AND a Clinton. The horror!

However, we should join in the protest. Just because they didn't protest before doesn't mean they are wrong now. The are right now and guilty of a sin of omission in the past. Ego Te Absolvo.

obama should be thanking (none / 0) (#63)
by TheRefugee on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 09:47:15 PM EST

ABC for not asking real questions until everyone had switched the channel lest the masses had seen Obama blow up...big time, into a bumbling inarticulate cretin.