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Friday Open Thread

Lots of work for me today, which means an open thread for you. What's on your mind?

You pick the topics, I'll be back eventually.

(Update:Comments now closed. You all made me hungry, I'm going to the grocery store and will be back in a few hours. Also, for those of you who like to put urls in your comments, check out the comment below about tinyurls where you can make them short enough they won't skew the site and get your comment deleted.

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  • Talking Points for HRC? (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Pianobuff on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:19:31 PM EST

    If I were setting Clinton's campaign strategy, I would be getting out the word that the race is in the state it's in because Obama channeled it there.

    Seriously, Obama very early on countered the experience card with the judgment card (I was against the war....).  He countered the actions card with the words card (Words matter...).  He successfully engineered the media focus into looking at judgment and words.  So now the media is talking about his judgment via associations and parsing his words to try to understand what he is all about and it's unfair?   Does anyone else see him as being a victim of his own success?


    Clinton's TPs (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Fabian on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:31:54 PM EST
    Respect the voters.
    Issues.
    Detailed plan/answers.

    She needs to get some good sound bites prepared for the most likely tabloid trivia that the Media likes to go after.  Obama's long winded responses are his weak point.  They play well to an audience, but the lazy Media just wants something no more than thirty seconds long, if that.  So whoever produces the best sound bite will have their words repeated, free of charge.

    Grab the media cycle at every opportunity.  If Obama doesn't want to debate, then "I'm very sorry to hear that.  I've always enjoyed our debates together.  I've always thought that voters benefit from them.".  If the subject of the question is Obama, then the sentence is always "We" and "I", never "He".  Always speak for yourself, never presume to speak for someone else.

    Parent

    HRC Has Some Pretty Good Talking Points (5.00 / 5) (#40)
    by MO Blue on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:41:39 PM EST
    of her own regarding the debate.

    HRC: We were both asked some pretty tough questions and that's part of what happens in a debate and in a campaign. And I know he spent all day yesterday complaining about the hard questions he was asked. Being asked tough questions in a debate is nothing like the pressures you face inside the White House.

    In fact, when the going gets tough, you just can't walk away because we're going to have some very tough decisions that we have to make. I think we need a president who can take whatever comes your way. You have to stand strong; you have to fight for the American people - because it will not be easy to stand up against the special interests.

    Q: So you were fine with the debate, did you see any problem with it?

    HRC: Well, can I say that I've been through, what 23 of these debates? And as I recall, I was asked some pretty tough questions in nearly every one of them.

    That goes with the territory, having been inside the White House, I know the pressures inside the White House, I know how hard it is every single day. When the going gets tough you can't run away. And it's going to be tough going to deal with these hard problems; getting out of Iraq in the right way, turning the economy around, getting universal health care, ending our dependence on foreign oil.

    The special interests are going to be a lot tougher than 90 minutes of questions from two journalists and we need a president who is going to be up there fighting everyday for the American people and not complain about how much pressure there is, and how hard the questions are.

    Sorry couldn't get my link to work.

    Parent

    "Man up, you little baby!" (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:42:51 PM EST
    Heh. Indeed. :-) (none / 0) (#47)
    by madamab on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:44:04 PM EST
    I think she should drop (none / 0) (#51)
    by Fabian on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:46:55 PM EST
    the "when I was in the White House" meme.

    Yes, she was.  Yes, it is actually relevant.  But it dilutes the points she is trying to make.  Try reading those clips without those comments and they come across more concise.  Short and to the point unless there is a good reason to go into detail - ie a complex situation, detailed plans or so forth.

    JMO.

    Parent

    The only problem with this (none / 0) (#55)
    by CST on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:47:36 PM EST
    Is what she said at the Cincinatti debate about the SNL skit and always getting the first question.  I am not saying either is right or wrong, but it does seem to me as if the pot is calling the kettle black.

    Frankly, I think they both had a right to complain.

    Parent

    To be fair (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:50:49 PM EST
    she also said, "but that's all right--I can take it."  And she didn't mention it at every subsequent stump speech.  And she didn't call Lorne Michaels to complain.

    Parent
    Absolutely..... (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:57:17 PM EST
    ...I agree that the debate was rough and many of the questions were ridiculous. And a couple of digs at ABC might have been fine, but Obama whined about it all day long and used it to bash Hillary. When Hillary made the first question remark, she wasn't turning it against Obama. She didn't blame him for her media treatment.

    Parent
    here we go again! (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Josey on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:25:14 PM EST
    Obama supporters can't tell the difference in stating a fact and whining.
    Yes, Hillary said she gets the first questions. That's a fact.
    But she doesn't whine and complain about the media coverage that has been slanted toward Obama from the gitgo.
    If the media had performed a modicum of scrutiny of Obama - Wright, Ayers, Rezko, Obama lying about his father's connection to the Kennedys, etc., would have been exposed last year.

    Parent
    Yes, but which one can pull it off? (none / 0) (#59)
    by Fabian on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:51:08 PM EST
    Obama can do it and his organization falls in line behind him.

    If Hillary does it, then she'll get slammed with the "playing the victim" meme from.....well, let's just say from various groups.

    Parent

    Ah no we just put our ballot where our mouth is 10 (none / 0) (#73)
    by Salt on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:56:27 PM EST
    points she won by in Ohio 83 out of 88 Rube Archie Bunker counties if you recall.  Wallowing in victimhood is not our thing.

    Parent
    It's a little too meta (none / 0) (#7)
    by Edgar08 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:21:01 PM EST
    As a Campaign message, but it's certainly all true.


    Parent
    I come from LA thinking (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:31:49 PM EST
    I only have tornados to worry about in central Illinois and what rolls me out of bed this morning at 5 (on the 102 anniversary of the San Francisco biggie) and earthquake.
    great.

    Link

    I hear Obama was stepping off the plane (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:33:38 PM EST
    when that earthquake hit, and everybody looked up in the sky to wait for the clouds to part...

    Parent
    he must have made a couple (none / 0) (#30)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:36:20 PM EST
    more appearances.  we have had at least two sizable aftershocks.
    coming from LA it is pretty ho hum but it is quite the water cooler subject here.

    Parent
    see, middle america does too copy LA! (none / 0) (#24)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:33:26 PM EST
    5.2 isn't too bad (none / 0) (#61)
    by dianem on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:52:21 PM EST
    Although it must have been a nasty jolt for people who don't normally experience earthquakes, and I have to wonder how much damage this will do in an area without earthquake safety standards (most structures in California are reinforced to hold up to earthquakes). Here's hoping that no permanent damage was done.

    Parent
    that is being talked about a lot (none / 0) (#93)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:03:38 PM EST
    I dont think there was much real damage.  wasnt much  of a quake.
    but I was surprised to learn the area has quite a history:

    Link

    Parent

    Oh, yes -- the New Madrid quake was an 8.0 (none / 0) (#147)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:28:25 PM EST
    in Illinois, it's estimated -- and it hit more than a million square miles vs. 6,000 square miles in the San Fran quake of '06.

    There simply were fewer EuroAmerican settlers in the Midwest in 1811, soon after it had been Nouvelle France and so still mainly French (and metis) traders.  Still, I have read many contemporaneous accounts of the New Madrid quake, and it's effects were devastating for some time afterward.

    Up in the upper Midwest, where I am, I have felt a few of our quakes, as did a lot of folks here today.  Some are writing (online blogs on this) that they felt the aftershock midmorning, too, and some only blocks from me.  But I did not -- probably because I'm on a first floor rather than upper floors of taller buildings, as that's when I've felt Midwest quakes before.

    The good news from family and friends living close to today's epicenter -- some less than 50 miles away but are okay, some in St. Louis who were awakened -- is that all are fine, with no damage.

    Much more worrisome here is that it's tornado season -- and we're nearing the anniversary of one of our worst recent ones, when my next-door neighbor died.  That's a terrifying day I won't forget . . . nor the days afterward, trying to get life back to normal but putting up with thrillseekers by the thousands driving by.  So my hope today for my family and friends living far closer to today's quake is that everyone else just stays away.

    Parent

    tornados, yikes (none / 0) (#157)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:33:22 PM EST
    this is the first place I ever worked where tornado readiness was part of the orientation.


    Parent
    are you working in a trailer park? (none / 0) (#168)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:37:01 PM EST
    :-)

    Parent
    Woke Me Up Here In St. Louis Also n/t (none / 0) (#87)
    by MO Blue on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:01:16 PM EST
    Danny Federici, RIP (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by scribe on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:32:44 PM EST
    Danny Federici, keyboard and everything-else player for the E Street Band, died at the age of 58, having fought melanoma for three years.  A well-wrought obituary, this, but, truth be told, so long as there is music, he will be with us.
    This is one of my favorites, and Danny's playing the accordion.

    May he rest in peace.

    thanks that will make a great late night clip (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:34:11 PM EST
    tonight.

    RIP Danny.

    Parent

    I've loved that song since the first time I heard (none / 0) (#44)
    by scribe on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:42:57 PM EST
    it, back in 1974.  And it still holds up, musically.

    And, I've had it on a bootleg audiotape almost as long - that show was one of the many live simulcast concerts Bruce did over WNEW-FM (and other stations) back in the 70s.  In fact, I remember taping that show when it came across, live.

    Makes me so sad, to hear about Danny.

    Parent

    I've got tickets to the cancelled show (none / 0) (#116)
    by ruffian on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:13:39 PM EST
    in Orlando tomorrow night.  I'll have a Danny tribute at home instead. I certainly have enough music and videos to 'Prove it all Night' in honor of Danny and his friends and family.


    Parent
    If you go to (none / 0) (#223)
    by scribe on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:12:22 PM EST
    Springsteen's site, you'll note that the 4/18 and 4/19 concerts are "postponed", not "Cancelled".

    I cannot see him leaving in the lurch those fans who have those tickets - hold on to them and, I'll bet, the show will be rescheduled. From what I've heard, scheduling arenas can be quite difficult, but stiffing people is not what Bruce has ever been about.

    In the meantime, Prove it All Night (from the same 1978 show), indeed.

    Parent

    'Sandy' from this past March (none / 0) (#105)
    by ruffian on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:08:56 PM EST
    thanks for posting that video. A perfect testament to their relationship and the timeless music.

    It's a sad day.

    Bruce's site has a clip of video of Danny doing 'Sandy' this past March, his last time appearing with the band.

    Danny on Sandy, Mar 2008

    Parent

    RIP...I hear that (none / 0) (#217)
    by kdog on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:34:30 PM EST
    Good call scribe.

    Parent
    Obama as the victim (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by dianem on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:33:05 PM EST
    This NYT article by Nagourney and Zelandy.

    Select quote: "Accordingly, Mrs. Clinton did not let an opportunity pass as she repeatedly challenged Mr. Obama on his record and views -- assisted, as it turned out, by vigorous questioning by the two moderators..."

    Obama is once again being portrayed as the victim of unfair attacks, by Clinton and the debate moderater's. Obama is a victim, of Clinton's selfish greed, of the Republican Party, of a media only interested in "gotcha" politics, of racist rural Democrats who won't vote for him even though his is more qualified. His campaign is pushing this meme, and he has personally spoken of the injustice of it all. Progressives have shown sympathy to this argument - the more Obama claimed that he was attacked, the more he won. He didn't start really winning in big numbers until his campaign started playing the victim card. So, it's working in the primary. But will it work in the general election?  Will non-progressive Americans buy the victim argument and respond to it by voting for Obama in large enough numbers to win the general election?

    My belief is that they won't. The big question in this election is whether McCain's age will trump Obama's inexperience. If McCain puts on a good showing in debates and Obama puts in the kind of performance I just saw, people will see that McCain is intellectually alert and ready to lead and will vote for him. If McCain gets confused or seems unable to keep up with Obama intellectually, then people will see him as "doddering" and will vote for Obama. There are too many active, vital people in their 80's for American's to assume that all people over 70 are too old to think clearly. I don't think that Axelrod will be able to morph is success using the victim meme into a Presidency. Progressives fight for the underdog - Americans want a Presidenty who is a winner, not a victim.

    McCain won't come off as a fogey (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:39:29 PM EST
    unless it's the scenario where he'll be irritated and annoyed by the whipper snapper and slap him around like a bad donkey.  McCain has already done that to Obama once-and very publicly.  McCain has no problem with the image of being a bully and it'll work just great for him in a ge match-up against Obama.  And, you're right, Obama has already shown he can't handle the tough questions.  

    This is the core of Clinton's electability argument.  The guy gets one bad day of hard questions and he cannot let it go.  He's out there whining on the trail to his adoring fans, laughing about how mean and nasty ol' Clinton is, like he's the poor victim.  McCain will have no qualms about making O look like the petulant child while McCain looks like the adults.

    Would that Clinton really took the gloves off.  She has been so soft on O that it's been infuriating.  You know she could cut him at the knees so fast that he'd never stand again, but she won't do that to a fellow dem.

    Parent

    She was pretty gentle (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by dianem on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:46:54 PM EST
    ...yet you would have thought that she was digging into Obama with everything she had, based on the article I cited. Obama, on the other hand, was quite clumsy in his attacks on Clinton. Given the number of debates Obama has been in, it is obvious that his legendary verbal prowess does not translate well in an unscripted format. It will be interesting to see how McCain handles his attacks, and how McCain uses Obama's tendency to fluster when attacked to his advantage.

    Parent
    McCain Has A Tendency To Make Fun Of Obama (none / 0) (#96)
    by MO Blue on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:05:46 PM EST
    I expect Obama will spend most of general very flustered and it will definitely not translate into looking presidential. This will be especially true when the MSM starts pointing out how easily Obama gets flustered on a regular basis to help their long time friend McCain.

    Parent
    Shades of Gore (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:07:52 PM EST
    and he fabricated "sigh" fest from the debate are coming back to haunt me.

    They will rip him to shreds.

    Go, Hillary, go!  We won't give up if you don't give up!

    Parent

    And why did he walk up to GW? (none / 0) (#120)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:16:43 PM EST
    That only made it look like he was trying to intimidate GW. Who suggested this? I can understand the sighs because GW was making up stuff, but unfortunately, they were a little bit too loud in the microphone.

    One thing that was very bad for Edwards in his VP04 debate was when Cheney claimed he had never before met Edwards. Like Edwards was a no body. Too bad Edwards did not remember the few times that they had met and actually sat next to each other at a breakfast. I really think that one sentence threw him off his game. I think McCain will be able to do that too to him.

    Parent

    A winner, not a whiner. :-) (none / 0) (#35)
    by madamab on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:39:22 PM EST
    Is this a Vista problem... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Teresa on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:43:46 PM EST
    for the fourth time, TL has totally disappeared from my favorites. No other site has.

    Who doesn't want me reading TalkLeft? :) I'm the only one with the password to this computer. Why doesn't it disappear Daily Kos instead since I no longer use it?

    Make sure it is a trusted site (none / 0) (#182)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:44:54 PM EST
    Might be the Norton or anti/virus also. But, no, nothing usually removes my favorites. I only have Vista on my laptop. Wouldn't put in on my main PC.

    Parent
    Since its an open thread... (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:05:36 PM EST
    I just have to say that it was pretty cute seeing Washington DC go Pope Crazy yesterday and the day before.

    Long Live Bill Maher!!!! (none / 0) (#216)
    by kdog on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:31:34 PM EST
    I hope he doesn't apologize for his comments, because it would surely be insincere.

    I hope HBO doesn't can him, though if they did I'm sure Showtime might call.  Or the Playboy Channel:)

    Half of my companies Manhattan customers didn't even open their doors today...Manhattan is on lock-down.  I hope the big guy ain't stayin long, business is slow as it is.

    Parent

    The pope wears Prada... (none / 0) (#226)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:44:59 PM EST
    ...shoes, that is. Red ones. The things you learn when the pope comes to town.

    Parent
    Who's going to GOTV this weekend? (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Klio on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:06:22 PM EST
    I'm flying in to Philadelphia {working North Philly apparently} on Sunday, staying through Wednesday.

    Anyone else here volunteering this weekend?

    Don't forget, you can always work from home!

    I'm making phone calls (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:08:54 PM EST
    in my pajamas.

    Hats off to you for getting on the plane!

    Parent

    My spouse got a thank you (none / 0) (#196)
    by waldenpond on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:59:20 PM EST
    call last night with a request for more money.  I accepted the thank you as I am waaaay ahead with donations :) and told them I would got on-line today.  He insisted on sending an envelope, why I have no idea.  I had fun giving the guy a hard time.

    Parent
    I might. Depends on the traffic/travel (none / 0) (#112)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:12:10 PM EST
    situation tomorrow with the Pope here. I'd be taking the train and I need to see what's up with everything. The word was to stay out of certain areas of Manhattan. If not, I'll hit the phones.

    Parent
    Oh and about Rachel Maddow (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by gish720 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:13:34 PM EST
    Every single day on David Gregory's show she goes on and on boo hooing about the fact that John McCain will win because Hillary has the unmitigated gall to remain in the race. Her constant theme is "Surrender Dorthy" and I personally don't think she smacked Joe down so much as said that one more dang time. She harps on that constantly!

    Yes (none / 0) (#125)
    by LoisInCo on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:18:48 PM EST
    she is selling the MSNBC selling points. But I am a fangrrrl . I will forgive her after the election. KO not so much.

    Parent
    I still like Rachel (none / 0) (#139)
    by ruffian on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:25:24 PM EST
    I have sworn off MSNBC for mental health reasons, but she is very fair on her own show on Air America.  I can barely tell she leans Obama, but she criticises him and praises Clinton when each is warranted.  

    She never goes on the Hillary attack-rants like Rhodes, Shultz, and the others.  She is always well reasoned and modulated, and I appreciate that. Even when I don't agree, I can listen to her.  She has been the only liberal host I can say that about.

    Parent

    I'm glad to hear that ruffian. (none / 0) (#143)
    by Teresa on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:26:54 PM EST
    I might start listening.

    Parent
    Good! (none / 0) (#185)
    by ruffian on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:49:00 PM EST
    She rocks on the anti-McCain stuff.

    Parent
    Dean wants it over sooner (none / 0) (#1)
    by cannondaddy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:15:17 PM EST
    rather than later.

    All Obama supporters (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Edgar08 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:18:43 PM EST
    Want it over sooner rather than later.

    They know their candidate can't take much more of this.


    Parent

    Is Dean a Superdelegate (none / 0) (#10)
    by cannondaddy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:23:34 PM EST
    if so, should we just put him in the Obama column alond with Pelosi and Reid?

    Parent
    I don't know (none / 0) (#13)
    by Edgar08 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:25:41 PM EST
    I do know he's not impartial.


    Parent
    To heck (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dave B on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:16:09 PM EST
    With Dean.

    Parent
    Well, whenever they decide (none / 0) (#6)
    by Fabian on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:20:16 PM EST
    to seat the FL & MI delegates, I'll have some sympathy for Dean.

    I think Dean is in the hole he and his buddies dug all by their lonesome.  Fifty states - here we come!

    Parent

    But they need to be able to seat them (5.00 / 5) (#12)
    by Edgar08 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:24:22 PM EST
    Before SDs decide.

    That's the point.

    Otherwise there's no point to seating them.

    Do not tell people they can't be involved in the process but then tell them they have chairs at the convention, to sit and cheer and pretend they weren't disenfranchised.


    Parent

    It's like getting to vote next January 21 (none / 0) (#158)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:33:59 PM EST
    after the inauguration.  And we need to keep saying that.

    As for Obama's 50-50 plan for Michigan, it's like getting two ballots instead of one and being told to vote for both candidates, cancelling out your vote.  Might as well not vote at all, even on January 21.

    We have to make it quite simple and visual for people to understand why DNC and the Obama are pulling fast ones with real people at real polling places -- with democracy.

    Parent

    Hey you're right (none / 0) (#173)
    by Edgar08 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:39:20 PM EST
    I think Bush, Jeb, and Katherine Harris all extended invites to the people of Florida to celabrate his inauguration, I wonder how that went over.

    Probably OK for half of Florida anyway.

    Parent

    What Dean said (none / 0) (#26)
    by Chimster on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:33:57 PM EST
    I was ready to rant on about Dean earlier, but then I saw the full interview with Blitzer. The clipping of just the I-want-Superdelegates-to-decide-now quote makes Dean look like he's trying to end it all now.

    But upon further viewing of the entire clip, I don't see it that way. He specifically said all 50 states will have their say, and that he is simply the rules keeper. The Delegates don't need to follow rules except to "follow their conscience". Sounds pretty fair to me, but I certainly may be missing something.

    The longer Hillary stays in the race, thebetter her chances. Each day shows new dents in Obama's armor and deflates the balloon.

    Parent

    Sometime around September (none / 0) (#79)
    by blogtopus on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:59:23 PM EST
    if Hillary wins the nomination - do you think Obama will still be disintegrating, and people will feel they dodged a bullet?

    I don't know. I think if Hillary wins the nom - unlikely but I can hope - it will be nonstop ugliness from the Obama supporters (and the media).

    And, as we've seen, she can take it and thrive. Obama, not so much.

    Parent

    I believe so but the Party image (none / 0) (#127)
    by Salt on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:19:02 PM EST
    has suffered a terrible terrible blow, McClatchy has a great article on why Ayers is a problem for Democrats.

    40 years on, why can't we get over the 1960s?

    Parent

    Because (none / 0) (#209)
    by MichaelGale on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:14:58 PM EST
    we are very special. :-) And we'll never go away since we made history and because we have influenced your life.

    Don't ask us to go away, thank us.

    Parent

    and you have the money I would guess (none / 0) (#229)
    by Salt on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:16:31 PM EST
    No matter who wins (none / 0) (#162)
    by Chimster on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:34:38 PM EST
    there will be ugliness aplenty. Half of Democrats and left leaning Independents will not have gotten the nominee that wanted. The further along this contest goes, the more people draw sands in the line or go to a place of such hatred for the other candidate that they can't turn back. The Dem party really is doomed. The only way out? A Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton ticket.

    I know that you can't vote for so-and-so because so-and-so is a liar, cheat, and thief. But  we must play deal-maker if want a Dem in the White House in November. Let's see what happens between now and July. If the DNC plays by the rules and allows the process to finish, it should work itself out one way or another.

    Parent

    Dealmaker? Yes... (5.00 / 1) (#214)
    by oldpro on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:22:32 PM EST
    there is a way and it's not being talked about but if PA and Indiana turn out badly for Hil's chances,hey....these are the Clintons, so there is a THIRD WAY!

    Unity ticket?  Nope.  Doubt it very much.  She could handle it but I don't think he and his supporters could.  

    And after all...the whole point of his campaign was/is to kill of the Clintons once and for all, so....where's the logic from his campaign's point of view?

    Parent

    There are voters who feel otherwise (none / 0) (#71)
    by dianem on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:55:08 PM EST
    I realize that the Democratic Party has bigger things on it's mind than the sensibilities of the voter's in the 8 states and 1 territory that havne't voted yet, but I wonder if it has occurred to anybody that they might want their shot to have an impact, however small, on the primary.

    Parent
    Big swing in Indiana (none / 0) (#3)
    by magster on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:18:18 PM EST
    Will there be another one for PA... (none / 0) (#14)
    by mike in dc on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:26:08 PM EST
    ...and if so, when?  That should set the upper end of Clinton's expected margin in PA.  At the moment, it's the only one showing the race in double digits for her.  

    Obama up in IN is definitely not welcome news for Clinton, though.  If he finishes within 9 or closer in PA and then wins IN and NC, this thing is over, because she can't reduce the pledged gap, she can't win the pop vote, the SDs will start flowing to him, and her fundraising will dry up.

    Parent

    That wasn't a SUSA poll (none / 0) (#17)
    by Dan the Man on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:30:45 PM EST
    That was a Mike Downs poll with SUSA doing the fieldwork ie they called the pollees on the SUSA phone system.  There's a reason why the SUSA poll is not on their website with the other polls (and, I predict, never will be).

    Parent
    So, SUSA makes the calls (none / 0) (#20)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:32:13 PM EST
    gives Downs the raw data, and Downs regurgitates the info in the way he sees fit?

    Sneaky!

    Parent

    Thanks, I was trying to figure out (none / 0) (#31)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:36:33 PM EST
    why I was seeing posts on a SUSA poll but not finding it on their site.

    Parent
    Go to pollster.com (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Democratic Cat on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:37:27 PM EST
    to see the internals on the Downs/SUSA poll.

    Parent
    May not be a swing (none / 0) (#28)
    by Democratic Cat on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:34:21 PM EST
    Because a different sampling methodology was used in the previous SUSA poll. So, although not welcome news for Clinton, this is like comparing two different polls rather than seeing a trend in one poll with a consistent methodology.

    New poll shows the white vote splitting (48-47) while the previous SUSA poll showed her with 59% of the white vote to Obama's 35%. Dunno who's right, but we'll find out soon enough.

    Parent

    I may be mistaken (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:41:57 PM EST
    but if Obama gets anything over 40% of the white vote, it will be the most he's taken of that demographic in any primary thus far.  (Except maybe Wisconsin?)  From my recollection, he's been topping out around 36-37%.

    Parent
    isn't the women's vote there too (none / 0) (#52)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:47:11 PM EST
    close also at 48-46?

    Parent
    You're very mistaken (none / 0) (#80)
    by cannondaddy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:59:23 PM EST
    Over 40% in Vermont, California, Connecticut, Deleware, Georgia, Illinois, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Mexico, Texas, Utah, Virginia and Wisconsin.

    Parent
    Can you provide links to this data? (none / 0) (#98)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:06:15 PM EST
    Because I really think that around MS, BTD was talking about this, and then we had another discussion about it the other day.

    Parent
    In those states, but about 36% overall (none / 0) (#165)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:36:16 PM EST
    in all states so far, per estimates at pollster.com.

    Kerry and Gore got 41-42%.  We need to get 45% of the white vote to win, say the prognosticators.

    Parent

    Gotcha--thanks. (none / 0) (#171)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:38:36 PM EST
    Hey, where is Oculus?  Did he (she?) get booted or what?

    Parent
    no she didn't get booted (none / 0) (#230)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:23:23 PM EST
    I'm not sure where she is.

    Parent
    Once again, the GOP gets in there (none / 0) (#32)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:37:16 PM EST
    The Dems favor Clinton. The GOP Obama. Whose primary is this? The GOP wants Obama for McCain to go against. They realize Hillary would be a force to contend with. They think they can take Obama. Woe de me. And they will.

    Parent
    Here is a video (none / 0) (#8)
    by LoisInCo on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:22:20 PM EST
    of Rachel Maddow slapping down Joe Scarbrough. Now don't get me wrong, I think Maddow has been a disappointment in her support of all things Obama. However, this provides me much glee, and gives me hope for news coverage after the Election race.

    I loved it when he said (none / 0) (#42)
    by madamab on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:42:41 PM EST
    "I don't mean to be condescending..." and Rachel's eyebrows went way up.

    Unfortunately, though, he had a good point. HRC and Obama could talk about McCain and his questionable associations all they want. The media will suppress it because they are his lapdogs and bring him doughnuts with sprinkles.

    Parent

    I think Joe is right (none / 0) (#146)
    by Edgar08 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:27:52 PM EST
    And I also think Rachel was wrong to compare the Rev. Wright situation with a McCain's campaign co-chair who got caught soliciting in a bathroom.

    It's very easy for McCain to disown his associate.  He will do it, if and when he needs to.  He will say, I thought I knew him, I didn't.

    And people will believe him because people know that for better or worse, wrong or right, people hide their sexuality all the time.  

    People are not believing Obama didn't know about how far out there Rev. Wright has been.  The soundbytes came from public promotional DVDs that were for sale by the church.

    It's a very superficial comparison and I think Joe should have pointed that out.

    He was kind not to.

    Parent

    Just thinking this through further (none / 0) (#186)
    by Edgar08 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:51:20 PM EST
    I'd like to know of any Obama supporters, or any Trinity Churchgoers, or if Rev. Wright himself thinks the comparison that Maddow makes in that segment is anything but insulting to them?


    Parent
    Gallup closing up nationally. 3pts now (none / 0) (#9)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:22:36 PM EST
    Polls are all over the place today. (none / 0) (#11)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:24:15 PM EST
    Well, it *is* nation Polish Pride Week, (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:27:31 PM EST
    so that's to be expected.

    Hey, hey!  BSG tonight!  Woo-hoooooo!!!  And my girl was on TV this morning telling Obama to man up and stop with the whining.  No kidding!  What's he gonna do when Big Daddy McCain's surrogates unleash--run crying to the blogosphere?

    As WJC might say if he was to guest star on BSG: Give me a frackin' break.

    Parent

    Thanks for the BSG reminder... (none / 0) (#21)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:32:29 PM EST
    it's that time in the semester (200 papers left to grade) that I forget such things.

    So-- what does the new SUSA poll mean? Is it about indecision, or is this another demographic primary?

    I don't know Indiana's demographics well.

    Parent

    I grew up in Indiana (none / 0) (#167)
    by nell on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:36:31 PM EST
    and to be totally honest, the Obama up by 5 poll seems closer to what I expect, though I am planning to go back home and work my heart out for Clinton the weekend before the primary. The places he will run really strong are Northwest Indiana, which is right next to Chicago, has a more urban and wealthy population, and has a significant African American population in Gary; Indianapolis, which also has a significant African American population; and then college towns like Bloomington, etc. I expect Clinton to run VERY strong in the rest of the state. So it will come down to turnout.

    I have also heard from my parents who are in the healthcare field and LOVE Hillary that they are hearing from some of their conservative co-workers that they will be voting for Obama to stop Hillary from getting universal health care (sick, I know, but my dad said that a few co-workers said this point blank). They said they did not think Obama would have the guts to do it, so while they want McCain, they would rather take an ineffective Obama. Now, of course, this is PURELY anecdotal, but take it for what it is worth...

    Parent

    I hope this isn't tooooo out there for (none / 0) (#16)
    by Anne on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:29:46 PM EST
    an open thread...but my post-tax season brain is a little crunchy around the edges, I'm overdosing on political anxiety, so here's my question:

    what is everyone having for dinner tonight?  Got something delicious, easy and fun you make when all else fails?

    We're going out tomorrow night, but I'm bored with the usual choices for tonight - just want to go home, get comfy, pour some wine and make something good for me and the husband for dinner.

    Tonight is takeout (none / 0) (#29)
    by LoisInCo on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:34:36 PM EST
    for me. But I recently made a super simple dish from Paula Dean. Chicken Breasts with sauteed shallots, mushrooms, and moz cheese. So simple. So tasty.

    Parent
    either grilling steaks or eating leftovers (none / 0) (#34)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:37:30 PM EST
    at the Alabama household tonight. End of the week tiredness. I guess it's all part of being an old bitter gun and god loving low information voter...
    /snark, in case anyone's snark meter is broken.

    Parent
    That sounds good - (none / 0) (#60)
    by Anne on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:52:14 PM EST
    thanks!  Love chicken, and often end up just sauteeing with whatever veggies I have on hand and serving with a good rice.

    Parent
    Grilled Salmon (none / 0) (#37)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:40:02 PM EST
    salad with a citrus dressing, veggie and rice.

    simple  :)

    Parent

    That's mine too (none / 0) (#66)
    by ruffian on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:53:55 PM EST
    I make it a lot.  I'm not much of a cook, but even I can't mess that up.  Love it.

    Parent
    I'm cooking extra (none / 0) (#81)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:59:29 PM EST
    so I can have the salmon on a salad for lunch tomorrow  ;) Love it when they have a sale on salmon, lol!~

    Parent
    I used to live (none / 0) (#91)
    by LoisInCo on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:02:47 PM EST
    in Alaska and we would go Salmon fishing. We had Salmon 3 times a week when we lived there. I miss freshly smoked pink salmon.

    Parent
    I'm officially jealous! (none / 0) (#228)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 05:15:31 PM EST
    Not only do I love salmon, but I also use it a lot in my pets diets. Salmon oil is great during our dry winters.

    Parent
    Try Salmon This way (none / 0) (#131)
    by Dave B on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:21:32 PM EST
    You'll love it.  I can't state amounts, I just cut stuff up.

    Slice a tomato
    Dice an onion
    Dice a green pepper

    Cut fillet into serving size pieces
    Place each piece onto tin foil large enough to wrap.
    Place tomato, onion, green pepper over fish
    Pour your favorite BBQ sauce over fish
    Wrap
    Place on gas grill on medium or under broiler for 20 minutes or more, depending on thickness of fillet.  Check to see if done if unsure.

    Squeeze a lemon wedge over piece, salt & pepper to taste, and serve.

    Delicious!

    Parent

    Okay, now I am getting hungry! (none / 0) (#72)
    by Anne on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:55:34 PM EST
    Salmon is one of my favorites - husband not so fond, so I usually have it when I know he will not be home for dinner, or is out of town.

    I make a BLT salad that is really good - an actual BLT is probably easier to make, but this is a little more versatile, in that I can throw some cooked chicken or shrimp in for a little more "oomph."  Need to make it with "real" tomatoes, though - !

    Parent

    That sounds good! (none / 0) (#90)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:02:13 PM EST
    I LOVE BLT's with avocado on toasted sourdough. I like the idea of adding shrimp to the salad. heh, now I have a new lunch idea (i work at home)

    Parent
    you cook when your husband is out of town? (none / 0) (#110)
    by Klio on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:11:31 PM EST
    I can't tell you how shocked I am! :-)

    I *might* make some buttered toast, but if he's not here, I ain't cookin' {and I'm a really good cook, I have to admit}.  Though, to be fair, I only learned how because he was poisoning me trying to recreate the tamale pie of his youth.  Ugh.  I can still taste some of them ....

    Parent

    My mom cooks when dad's away (none / 0) (#152)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:31:04 PM EST
    also. That way she can cook what she wants to eat  ;) My dad's pretty routine with what he will eat and doesn't wander beyond his limited menu.

    Parent
    of course, I love toast (none / 0) (#172)
    by Klio on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:39:19 PM EST
    luckily, the spouse knows what a good deal he has, and happily eats anything I serve.  But he has to wait until I'm out of town to get a plate of Hangtown Fry.  Blech, gives me the heebie jeebies.

    Parent
    My favorite easy/good dish (none / 0) (#38)
    by dianem on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:40:14 PM EST
    ...is pan fried fish with basmati pilaf and steamed veges. You can get the pilaf and veges in easy to prepare microwave packets and just saute the fish with a little butter. It's quick, elegant, and very healthy.

    For fun: Round table pizza (or some other non-junk type). Pizza is not unhealthy when you eat normal size pieces with vegetables instead of greasy meat toppings, and sitting around with a glass of wine eating pizza out of a box is fun and easy.  

    Parent

    I buy nice quality frozen fish (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by MarkL on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:47:32 PM EST
    fillets from my supermarket for some dinners.
    If it salmon, I just poach and serve with rice and veggies. If it's cod, I cock some tomatoes with olive oil and garlic, then add the fish.. yum.


    Parent
    My husband loves to fish, so I am (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Anne on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:58:13 PM EST
    always being presented with fresh fish from now until it gets too cold.  Simple is the best, I think.

    Your mention of pizza made me think of quesadillas - which we haven't had in a while.  Another dish you can just ad-lib out of what's on hand.

    Parent

    Breakfast for supper! (none / 0) (#77)
    by oldpro on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:58:43 PM EST
    My alternative favorite to same old same old.

    Omlets of all kinds...some favorites:  avocado/cream cheese/black olive & salsa on the side!
    bacon/sauteed mushroom/onion/cheese
    mushroom 'steaks' (slices of portabella sauteed in butter) w/ scrambled eggs & toast or bagel
    french toast...YUM
    dutch babies...YUM  YUM with sauteed apples/sour cream


    Parent

    My kids love breakfast for supper! (none / 0) (#89)
    by cannondaddy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:02:06 PM EST
    Not my wife though so we don't do it to often.  I do all the cooking, but she does all the deciding...

    Parent
    I have fond memories of my dad (none / 0) (#113)
    by Anne on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:12:58 PM EST
    making breakfast for supper when I was a kid, and we carried on that tradition when my husband and I had kids.  They always loved the silliness of pancakes for dinner!

    Parent
    When Sunday dinner was at 2... (none / 0) (#123)
    by oldpro on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:18:24 PM EST
    when I was a child (in the 1940s) supper was light...either breakfast for supper or grilled cheese sandwiches and tomato soup.

    I still think of those as comfort food when I'm down or feeling blue.

    Of course I've 'doctored' the comfort foods since childhood...ie. the grilled cheese now has real mayo and a slice of sweet onion inside!  And a dill pickle on the side.

    Parent

    Yeah.... (none / 0) (#219)
    by kdog on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:39:56 PM EST
    I can eat bacon and eggs for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

    Or just bacon....I have something I call the Bacon Pasta Special....fry your bacon, dump half the grease, add a splash of olive oil to the rest of the grease, throw in a boatload of garlic, some fresh tomato, red peppers, basil, oregano, black pepper...served over bow ties.  The sh*t is good and cheap as hell.

    Parent

    friday night (none / 0) (#82)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:59:53 PM EST
    means Chili night at my house.
    I get great beef from my relatives who raise it and every weekend I grab a package from the freezer and make Chili for the weekend.
    its not very upscale but I make killer Chili.


    Parent
    Have you ever tried bison? (none / 0) (#111)
    by Anne on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:11:40 PM EST
    I found ground bison at my grocery store not too long ago, and brought some home.  It's very lean - like venison - but not as game-y tasting.  Made burgers with it - adding some egg and other stuff to keep it moist - they were pretty good.  I can imagine it might work well in chili, too.

    Parent
    I had bison chili in Arizona (none / 0) (#117)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:14:39 PM EST
    thick with spices, a lot of cumin-- it was delicious. bison is very healthy, like ostrich, very low fat and cholesterol.

    Parent
    I had a Bison steak once that was (none / 0) (#121)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:16:43 PM EST
    pretty tasty. I usually just get bison meaty bones for my dog though. She LOVES bison bones, lol!~It's a bit pricey around here for an addition to my diet. I went the grass fed beef route and bought a side.

    Parent
    yes (none / 0) (#126)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:19:01 PM EST
    when I worked in Atlanta for two years I worked a block or two from "TEDs".
    Ted Turners bison steak house.  its great.
    excellent potroast.
    never got it at the store though.


    Parent
    Here in Denver (none / 0) (#195)
    by echinopsia on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:59:08 PM EST
    We can have bison (buffalo) just about anytime. Spendy, though.

    Best exotic red meat EVAR is yak.

    And just because y'all made me think of it:

    Dogs in Elk

    Parent

    Cincinnati is my favorite! (none / 0) (#132)
    by Klio on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:21:38 PM EST
    I spent months doing research at the Huntington Library and they sell a different chili every day.  So comforting ....

    P.S. Obviously I love these food sub-threads; I hope that's okay

    Parent

    is that the one (none / 0) (#137)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:22:50 PM EST
    they serve on spaghetti?  or is it Kansas City?

    Parent
    thought about chili and spaghetti (none / 0) (#141)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:26:13 PM EST
    then chili and rice...

    but being near the coast my mind went to gumbo and rice...

    change of plans! Seafood gumbo and rice at the alabama house tonight!

    Parent

    Got a gumbo recipe to share? (none / 0) (#145)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:27:36 PM EST
    yes! (none / 0) (#155)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:32:44 PM EST
    as a matter of fact, I wrote a large entry on making gumbo on another blog site... but I can't seem to link to it...help1 I'll post a link if someone will help with the techno challenge!

    Parent
    I usually copy the link (none / 0) (#161)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:34:24 PM EST
    and go here:

    http://tinyurl.com/

    make a tiny url, copy that and paste in a comment . . .

    {waits patiently}

    Parent

    I hope this works... (none / 0) (#178)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:42:30 PM EST
    please let me know! It's the whole article I wrote on gumbo.

    Parent
    trying again... (none / 0) (#181)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:43:09 PM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/4xnnpl

    Parent
    Got it! Thank YOU!!!! :) (none / 0) (#188)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:52:02 PM EST
    I'm so excited. Prob make it Sunday. Not sure on the oyster availability, but I'm good on the fish and shrimp  :)

    Parent
    It's a winner even without oysters, (none / 0) (#192)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:56:46 PM EST
    but the juice does add a level of flavor! I hope you enjoy it! Remember, if you burn the roux, start over. It's a gumbo killer when burned.

    Parent
    re the roux (none / 0) (#200)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:05:36 PM EST
    I've heard that, so I'll stay on top of it. I'll give the seafood guy a check tomorrow and see if I can get oysters. I love the darn things!!

    Thanks again. Been wanting to try my hand at gumbo :)

    Parent

    the easy way (none / 0) (#175)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:41:10 PM EST
    go to The Leftcoaster and click on the comments box.
    there you will find a line you can cut and paste and substitute your URL
    I cant post it in here because it wont show up.

    Linked text

    Parent

    yes, I think that's 2 way (none / 0) (#177)
    by Klio on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:41:34 PM EST
    then there's chopped onion, red kidney beans, cheddar cheese, I think oyster crackers ...

    What I love the most are the warm spices they use, cinnamon, sometimes cocoa -- it's just way different than a big ole bowl of red, which is also delicious.

    Parent

    Chili My Sole in LA (none / 0) (#142)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:26:53 PM EST
    one of my favorite places to eat.
    I cant remember how many variations, dozens.
    my favorite was a white chicken chili with white beans.
    I am making myself hungry.


    Parent
    slow cooker? (none / 0) (#179)
    by Klio on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:42:54 PM EST
    How do you get it ready on a workday?  Do you start in the a.m. and then let cook in the crockpot?

    Parent
    Here's something I tried a while back: (none / 0) (#85)
    by MarkL on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:01:12 PM EST
    you can do this with most greens---I think I did it with turnip greens.
    I had steamed the greens, and I was thinking what to put on them, when I heard the pure maple syrup and balsamic vinegar call out to me, saying "mix us".
    Well, I did.. delicious on the greens.

    Parent
    Does anybody worry about Mercury? (none / 0) (#88)
    by blogtopus on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:01:30 PM EST
    I see a lot of fish meals in this subthread...

    Parent
    I check where the fish is from (none / 0) (#100)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:06:54 PM EST
    The salmon I'm getting tonight is from scotland and organic (on special this week). normally, i do the wild caught alaskan. for other fish, i usually buy as local as possible and i check my handy fish chart to see how toxic they could be. There's a canned tuna that is actually advertised as being from lower mercury areas.

    Parent
    Keep away from the Swordfish and the likes (none / 0) (#101)
    by Florida Resident on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:07:17 PM EST
    not that much to worry about.  Been a seafood person all my life.

    Parent
    grilled grass-fed NY strips (none / 0) (#92)
    by Klio on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:03:24 PM EST
    and, don't gag -- it's really delicious, quick, and nutritious: Sauteed Shredded Brussels Sprouts.  Mind you, it's only quick if you have a food processor.

    If you don't, and you have brussels sprouts, just cut them in half pole-to-pole and cook them slowly over low heat cut side down until they caramelize {add a butter to the oil, & if you had a garlic flavored oil, yum!}.

    Obviously, I have brussels sprouts in my refrigerator.

    Parent

    Well, tomorrow nights dinner is now (none / 0) (#107)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:09:14 PM EST
    solved. The brussels sprout recipe sounds yummy! And I aslo have NY grass fed in the freezer, lol!~

    Parent
    A nice sprinkling of (none / 0) (#114)
    by LoisInCo on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:13:22 PM EST
    bacon on that and I would be hogging the whole pan.

    Parent
    Yum! (none / 0) (#118)
    by MarkL on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:15:15 PM EST
    A simple favorite of mine is kale with browned butter, garlic and walnuts. You steam the kale til it's almost done, the finish it in a pan with browned butter in which garlic has been sauteed, then chop and add walnuts.
    Ok, it's not my recipe, but it's yummy!:)

    Parent
    I always liked the theory of brussels (none / 0) (#119)
    by Anne on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:16:02 PM EST
    sprouts, but could never deal with the reality.  They just look so good, it always disappoints when I discover they still taste awful - to me, anyway.  I keep trying...

    Parent
    Butter, salt & pepper (none / 0) (#140)
    by oldpro on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:25:25 PM EST
    transforms the sprouts just as it does cooked cabbage...or almost anything!

    If you cook your sprouts in water, when 'done,' pur off the water, add a splat of butter and a spoonful of sugar and shake over heat until the sugar carmelizes on the sprouts.

    If that doesn't do it for you, I give up!

    Parent

    I like both sprouts and cabbage (none / 0) (#144)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:27:13 PM EST
    boiled, fried, baked... just about any way prepared. Even raw, with the right condiments!

    Parent
    Winter cabbage salad... (none / 0) (#159)
    by oldpro on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:34:03 PM EST
    one of my favorites!

    Very chunky slaw...add chopped apples.

    Fabulous.

    (Leave skins on apple pieces...red delicious looks gorgeous mixed in...or any red-skinned apple)

    Parent

    delicious sounding! (none / 0) (#166)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:36:16 PM EST
    thanks!

    Parent
    To season, try a bouillon cube or two (none / 0) (#174)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:40:26 PM EST
    when boiling the brussels sprouts.  Easiest thing in the world to do, gives 'em a delicious flavor.

    Works with other veggies, too.  

    Parent

    Get the little (none / 0) (#164)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:35:24 PM EST
    brussels sprouts.  They taste sweet and nutty, not sour and cabbagy.  The fresher the better, too.

    Also, I grow them myself, and they're not good until after the first frost, which turns them sweet.  I think some of the sprouts in supermarkets were picked before frost.  No way to tell without trying, unfortunately.

    Parent

    Easy peasy meal (none / 0) (#128)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:19:19 PM EST
    Sushi grade tuna.  Slice.  Cook some sushi quality rice.  Serve with Wasabi and ginger.  Braise some baby bokchoy and scallions in some water and soy sauce.  YUM.  

    Parent
    Oh, jeez, Stellaaa.... (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by oldpro on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:31:13 PM EST
    easy peasy (a favorite phrase of a close friend!) reminds me of another favorite comfort food from childhood:  creamed tuna a peas on toast...oooooo

    A simple roux, can of tuna, frozen peas (or fresh or canned...)

    OK...tonight is comfort food night.

    And boy do I need it.

    Parent

    I obsess on technique (none / 0) (#134)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:22:02 PM EST
    braising veggies in just a small amount of water say, 1/2 cup and about 1/4 cup soy sauce.  wowzers...slice some ginger.  Try other veggie combinations.  

    Soy sauce burns, so always adding some water gets the flavor without the nasty bits.


    Parent

    Too much soy sauce! (none / 0) (#148)
    by Fabian on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:29:14 PM EST
    It'll be a while before I get spring greens from the market.

    Greens(whatever kind - all kinds)
    Garlic
    A few shiitake
    oil
    a little soy sauce
    a little sesame oil

    Delish!  I tried using sesame seeds once - not good.  Stick to the oil.

    Parent

    try it with the water (none / 0) (#149)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:30:04 PM EST
    it really improves the soy flavor.  

    Parent
    People, I'm on a diet -- you're killin' me here! (none / 0) (#180)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:42:56 PM EST
    30 pounds gone, and I've got a whole new wardrobe of clothes that have been takin' up space in my closet for years.  And this without much exercise in winter here, so now that I can get out to start shaping up the garden, I'm gonna be gorgeous.

    That is, unless I keep reading these recipes. . . .

    Parent

    some of these are high protein and fiber (none / 0) (#183)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:47:58 PM EST
    and could fit your diet, I hope!

    Parent
    Spaghetti (none / 0) (#207)
    by waldenpond on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:09:51 PM EST
    I have a pot of sauce cooking (lots of red wine, fresh terragon and rosemary, bay leaves, onions and garlic) and bread rising in the oven.

    Parent
    more Aravosis empty threats (none / 0) (#39)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:41:33 PM EST
    I posted this already this morning but its worth posting again because it ticks me off.
    who the hell do they think they are?

    Link

    Curious of what the bitterness and anger could look like if Obama is somehow denied the Democratic nomination? Check out the reaction from the ObamaNation over Wednesday's debate. To put it simply, ABC was under siege yesterday. This may only be a taste of how the ObamaNation would react to a Clinton nomination. If MoveOn is motivated to do a petition campaign against the media over a debate, imagine what Clinton delegates and undecided superdelegates would face this summer if there is doubt.

    "...sound and fury, signifying nothing." (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:48:54 PM EST
    Or, as someone posted earlier today or last night, the next round of authoritarian personality types emerging. Neither choice is appealing.

    After one tough debate, the Obama nation goes into frenzy. I hope this isn't the 'new politics of post partisainship.' It reminds me of some of the worst times in Central and South America.

    I'm hesitant to say this, but the cult of personality surrounding Obama is becoming frightening. Obama himself? not so much. His followers, on the other hand...

    Parent

    yes (none / 0) (#64)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:52:52 PM EST
    I de-Move On (5.00 / 4) (#102)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:07:17 PM EST
    When Move On endorsed, I un Move On'd. When Obama called, I de-OBama'd. When Obama asked for money, I said no way. When the DNC called, I said, un reg me. And no more money until Fla/Mich resolved. And Donna gone too. When John Kerry asked me to support Obama, I de-e-emailed him.When Casey called, I hung up. I got one Hillary mail and 4 Obama mail. In 4 days I get to vote for the person that I think will make the best President of the 3 running. I can not wait.

    Parent
    Simplify Your Life! (none / 0) (#135)
    by Fabian on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:22:18 PM EST
    Wow, Obama and the DNC has really helped you to get rid of wastes of your time and money.

    You should send a thank you card to them.

    Parent

    In a way I did to the DNC (none / 0) (#189)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:52:57 PM EST
    They said my membership was running out. I kept sending back their envelope saying no thanks, until you get Mich and Fla straighted out. I still keep getting things and now I have added about Donna. I mean, it is their self addressed stamped envelope. Don't want to just throw it away. And yes, I sign it but they have not given up on me. Heh. Yes, and I am enjoying it a little too much.

    Parent
    I wonder... (none / 0) (#48)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:44:54 PM EST
    media folk tend to rally the wagons when one of their own is attacked.  ABC is obviously taking some heat, but it seems to be coming from a lot of their previous "friends."  

    It would be absolutely wonderful to see the schism that we now find in the dem party (thanks, O!)  reflected between ABC and the other networks.  Sweet justice!

    Parent

    even if everything they say about ABC (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:47:30 PM EST
    is true, it only seems fair.  after all, Obama has a network.

    Parent
    It may be just me, (none / 0) (#62)
    by madamab on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:52:26 PM EST
    but if you read ObamaNation out loud, what does it sound like?

    ;-)

    Parent

    what it is? (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:53:14 PM EST
    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by madamab on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:54:48 PM EST
    not the smartest marketing IMHO.

    Parent
    These Very LOUD And Public Threats Will (none / 0) (#69)
    by MO Blue on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:54:58 PM EST
    probably do the job of intimidating the SDs into giving Obama the nomination.

    OTOH the fact that they are very loud and public means that a large number of Dems who do not support Obama will know about the tactics used to secure the nomination for Obama.

    There will not be a Clinton supporter ala Donna Brazile on TV threatening to leave the party and there will not be a march on the DNC ala Sharpton. What will happen very quietly behind the scenes is that a number of Clinton voters will either vote for McCain or not vote. Will that number be large enough to swing the election to McCain? I don't know but I know that the Dems cannot afford to lose some of their normal base support.

    Parent

    maybe its just me (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:57:21 PM EST
    but I find the idea of every slight of "President Obama" leading to phone banking, marches and worse more than a little frightening.
    if I wanted to live in North Korea I would move there.

    Parent
    I wasn't gonna go to the NK example (none / 0) (#83)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:00:24 PM EST
    ...but I was thinking it.

    Parent
    I was thinking Stalin. (none / 0) (#86)
    by madamab on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:01:13 PM EST
    Oy.

    Parent
    sorry (none / 0) (#109)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:11:21 PM EST
    I do not want a president who has his "fans" fainting at his rallies.
    that is just freakin weird.

    Link

    Parent

    NK? (none / 0) (#106)
    by po on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:09:00 PM EST
    That's rich.  YOu should do some research regarding NK -- the idea that NKeans man phone banks, engage in marches or worse to protest a slight to their government is really amusing considering most NKeans live in poverty, have no phones and all marches are organized by the State.  

    Why not just say Iraq or Iran?  They're both part of the Axis of Evil from whom HRC will continue to keep us safe.  

    Parent

    Threats on teevee (5.00 / 1) (#210)
    by waldenpond on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:17:38 PM EST
    this morning.  Chuck Todd discussing Obama supporters (go figure) and the attitude on the net, their comments to media (referencing what he has gotten) and with the superdeez.  He is predicting it is going to get very ramped up and to get nasty, I think is the word he used.  They discussed how it was the end of the myth that a certain someone's campaign is about 'new' politics.

    Parent
    The Dems in (4.00 / 1) (#129)
    by kmblue on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:19:42 PM EST
    Congress rolled over for Bush.
    Why not the Supers for the Obama Nation?

    Parent
    great minds think alike! (none / 0) (#160)
    by ruffian on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:34:08 PM EST
    I swear I didn't copy your idea!

    Parent
    I dunno (none / 0) (#84)
    by madamab on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:00:29 PM EST
    it hasn't yet.

    I think most are waiting to see how well Obama does in the remaining primaries. Many of them are seasoned pols and have been threatened with much worse.

    Parent

    it is the UNelected super (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:06:01 PM EST
    who will make the decision IMO.
    and I dont think they like being intimidated.
    and I dont think most of them give a rat behind what Aravosis thinks.

    Parent
    I think you are right (none / 0) (#156)
    by ruffian on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:33:07 PM EST
    I think the SDs are too scared of a tantrum at the convention to deny them, even if it means throwing the GE.

    After all, these are in a large part Dem elected officials we are talking about. They have backed down to every threat from Bush in the last 8 years, why should I think they will grow a spine now?

    They better deliver their votes to the polls in November though, that's all I have to say.

    As hard as it sounds now,  we Hillary supporters need to suck it up and get to the polls to support Obama too, in large enough numbers to make it clear he can not win without us. If not we will be written off forever, and Hillary will have no clout in Congress.

    Parent

    Last night I recieved my (none / 0) (#45)
    by LoisInCo on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:43:07 PM EST
    first Obama hate email. My mother got the flag one ages ago( and I explained it to her). This one came from a person at a gamesite, thru it's messaging system. I was really shocked. I won't detail it of course, but it essentially takes a lot of time to say Obama is the anti-christ. I was really shocked to have gotten it actually. It was highly disturbing and I can't believe people send garbage like that out.

    not new (none / 0) (#49)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:46:29 PM EST
    Ugh (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by LoisInCo on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:52:28 PM EST
    Now my computer needs santizing. I don't surf much (or click on links often) so such things still shock me. Just. Ugh.

    Parent
    sorry (none / 0) (#67)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:54:29 PM EST
    I should have warned people.
    NOTE: that link leads to a creepy and unsavory site!
    (better late than never)
    it has been around for ages though.  not a new idea.


    Parent
    Heh... (none / 0) (#78)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:58:53 PM EST
    Look, there is a slew of stuff they will use.  Oprah's connection to the Course of Miracles, and how she is doing this daily program on it on her  radio program.   How that Church tries to destroy Christ.  They are waiting with this stuff.  If you look at his language and the churches language the similarities are uncanny.  All that we are who we were waiting for, is all that new age religions stuff that works with alleged humanists.  I tell you, it scares me.  

    Parent
    Well if he is the nominee be ready for a lot (none / 0) (#94)
    by Florida Resident on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:04:37 PM EST
    of that and much more.  I have seen some of the groundwork being laid down by some of the right wing blogs and it is nasty.  It is going to be pervasive and it is going to be supported by a talk radio (that is still controlled by the right) attack without precedent.  Pour in the Beck's of CNN and Fox and then don't count on the loving MSM cause they love McCain as much if not more.

    Parent
    It's a rightwing Republican attack e-mail. (none / 0) (#57)
    by madamab on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:49:04 PM EST
    Coming to you straight from the RNC and KKKarl Rove.

    Obama and his supporters who whine that HRC is attacking him like a Republican really need to get a clue. This is how they do it - sneaky, lying, despicable and below-the-radar.

    It's the same thing they did to John McCain in 2000 (he has a black baby! he's mentally ill!). Ah, how the worm has turned.

    Parent

    I just peeked at Josh and read this which made (none / 0) (#108)
    by gish720 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:11:10 PM EST
    me cringe:
    Thumbs Down

    We just received a press release from the Obama campaign announcing that former Sens. Nunn (D) and Boren (D) have come out in support of Sen. Obama. This continues to be one of the most striking features of this campaign -- the tendency of politicians who do or did make their careers on the votes of people from small towns and rural areas to come out for Obama.

    It's been going on for three months.

    I've always been highly skeptical of Hillary Clinton's argument that she's a stronger candidate in rural areas and red states. But the pols who know these areas best seem to be even more confident she's wrong than I do.

    --Josh Marshall


    Sam Nunn, another Republican. (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:20:03 PM EST
    Josh Marshall is a joke (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by Edgar08 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:30:56 PM EST
    Obama rule, a conservative endorsement means he's inclusive.

    Clinton rule, a conservative endorsement means she triangulates.

    I will not endorse these rules in November.


    Parent

    Hey, it's like those abstinence pledges (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:35:15 PM EST
    where you can become a re-virgin.  Just endorse Obama, and even if you are a republican anti-christ, you get your cherry back.  Axelrod calls it "Dim for a Day."

    Joe Lieberman, your time has come.

    Parent

    LOL... (none / 0) (#184)
    by oldpro on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:48:33 PM EST
    Ha! (none / 0) (#224)
    by tree on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:21:20 PM EST
    I love the chuckles I get from your posts!

    Parent
    I guess the ridicule these guys got (5.00 / 3) (#154)
    by Klio on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:32:43 PM EST
    for their Unity 08 hot-air festival is all forgotten now that they've endorsed Obama.  Now they're senior statesmen, not the politically tin-eared laugh-fest the netroots called them out for a couple of months ago.

    The intellectual dishonesty is BREATHTAKING.  

    Parent

    what a tool (none / 0) (#122)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:17:44 PM EST
    the question we SHOULD be asking (none / 0) (#133)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:21:48 PM EST
    is what do these DINOs know that is making them line up for Obama.
    they share about as much with me value wise as George W. does.

    Parent
    Ha. Obama's finger is a stop story (none / 0) (#124)
    by MarkL on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:18:46 PM EST
    at FOX news. Let's hope it dominates the Sunday talk shows.

    Timmah (none / 0) (#136)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:22:39 PM EST
    WILL ask the hard questions.
    pfft


    Parent
    Magic 8 Ball...what will MTP bring this Sunday...? (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:30:26 PM EST
    "Senator Obama--or, if I may, Mr President--what do you make of this childish obsession people have with what was obviously a facial scratch, a scratch which, as polls agree, shows that you are in touch with the common folks who scratch their faces with their middle fingers all the time because they are bitter at the government that Bill Clinton ruined while his wife was having tea and watching little girls dance in North Korea, our soon-to-be-ally, the moment you take your rightful seat in the Oval Office, and we all know that you were simply celebrating the diversity of the rainbow (excluding white women, of course, because what can we do about them?), the magic unity rainbow which you, unlike any other candidate, have been the strongest advocate for and...I'm sorry, can I just stare into your beautiful brown eyes right now while my assistant scratches my belly...?"  

    --Tim Russert/MTP/April 20, 2008

    Parent

    Onama is on MTP? (none / 0) (#170)
    by ruffian on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:38:20 PM EST
    Oh boy, there's a battle of the titans. /snark

    Parent
    NOPE (none / 0) (#191)
    by CST on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:56:33 PM EST
    http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=10162

    2 Fingers, not one

    He definitely wasn't flipping her off, whatever the audience may have thought.

    Parent

    you are nuts. (none / 0) (#198)
    by MarkL on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:00:43 PM EST
    The straight on view makes is perfectly clear.. and why was he scratching his face with is middle finger just when he was talking about Hillary?
    I swear, Obama and his supporters are at the level of the kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
    He did it, we saw it.. just like we  know what he meant when he was talking about small town voters.
    Stop pretending.

    Parent
    Do me a favor (none / 0) (#201)
    by CST on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:05:47 PM EST
    Try scratching your face with those two fingers.  It looks exactly like what Obama is doing.  One finger is longer than the other, it happens.  I doubt he puts that much thought into it when his face is itchy...  

    Parent
    He used ONE FINGER!! (none / 0) (#203)
    by MarkL on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:06:43 PM EST
    STOP LYING!!! I can't believe this garbage.

    Parent
    Did you click on the link at all? (none / 0) (#205)
    by CST on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:08:08 PM EST
    Iraq Reality: Who is going to tell them (none / 0) (#169)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:37:58 PM EST
    Anyone following the cold war alliances being re awakened around oil.  You know, like the Chinese and the Russians being against the US and other western nations.  The fact that Bush's attempts to get the western oil companies into Russia did not quite work.  So, now we are really on the course of a militaristic krypto (not very krypto) war to control where the large reserves are.  Iran has the second one.  

    Wake up progressives and lefties, McCain's slip of 100 years is true.  No way, whether Obama, Hillary or Nader become president is the west gonna let go of the Iraqi oil fields or being so close to Iran.  Moan and groan all we want, this was about oil.  

    I think that we should have a tax on oil, for the price of the war.  

    Pop quiz! (none / 0) (#176)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:41:18 PM EST
    1.  Name one war in which America has fought that was not about natural resources.

    2.  Name one region we have invaded where, when it was all over, we just picked up and left.


    Parent
    Grenada? (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:51:30 PM EST
    Wrong... (none / 0) (#193)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:57:34 PM EST
    Rum.  

    Parent
    This is why I love you, Stellaaa (none / 0) (#208)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:11:54 PM EST
    and not many folks know that Columbus was financed by the Spanish in part because they needed a new opium route, having cut the Moors' supply line.

    And Japan was under a US oil embargo when they attacked Pearl Harbor...

    Parent

    U are really good (none / 0) (#194)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:57:49 PM EST
    I don't know about you, but I remember watching NBC one night late and all of a sudden Tom Brokaw was there saying we were in Panana. As for Granada, it was on the news one morning and I am saying, where the heck is Granada? I looked it up in an atlas and I am "Isn't this a little too much show of force?"

    Parent
    Vietnam..... (none / 0) (#221)
    by kdog on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:50:55 PM EST
    But we didn't pick up and leave, we left with our tail between legs. It wasn't about natural resources, it was about political ideology.

    Parent
    conflict, not war (none / 0) (#227)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:45:28 PM EST
    What would instability in that region jeopardize?

    Parent
    I think.... (none / 0) (#220)
    by kdog on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:48:29 PM EST
    we should repeal all gasoline and heating oil taxes....rationing gas and oil may be a better idea.

    People are hurting....gas is 3.55 today by me, up 20 cents in a week.  How much more can working people pay?

    Parent

    I know this was covered in another thread (none / 0) (#190)
    by CST on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:54:00 PM EST
    I just found PROOF Obama wasn't flipping off Clinton

    http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=10162

    I am bad with links, but if you go here, you will see there are clearly two fingers up.

    Nuff said.

    You had better tell the crowd then (none / 0) (#197)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:00:28 PM EST
    They thought he was flipping her off. The people behind him are quiet. So maybe it was enough that they got the message. And what was on his face anyway?I want to say egg but that is just too too easy.

    Parent
    Stop the insanity (none / 0) (#199)
    by MarkL on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:02:31 PM EST
    There are several straight on views at No quarter.
    I can't believe I'm actually debating whether Obama flipped off Hillary. MY has no doubts.
    Don't forget the shoulder flick.
    I suppose he was scratching his own back.
    Ugh.

    Parent
    Not proof. Sorry. (none / 0) (#202)
    by echinopsia on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:06:26 PM EST
    I require video from that angle with the audio intact.

    Parent
    Okay (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by CST on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:19:13 PM EST
    If you go here

    http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/4/18/102120/357/8#8

    There is a video (I am not 100% sure about audio since I can't really listen as I am at work, but I imagine it is included).

    Pretty definitive.

    Parent

    So he was just (none / 0) (#213)
    by waldenpond on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:21:20 PM EST
    flicking the filth that was Clinton off his shoulders and brushing the cr@p that is Clinton off his shoes?  I feel so much better.

    Parent
    If that's what you think (none / 0) (#215)
    by CST on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:27:34 PM EST
    I took it very differently, I don't think he was calling Clinton crap or dirt, rather the subject matter and tenor of the discussion at the debate.

    But this is just another version of "What Obama really meant".  You will think what you think, I will think what I think.  I just hope "finger-gate" can be put to rest.

    Parent

    Don't listen to political radio (none / 0) (#206)
    by kredwyn on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:09:06 PM EST
    when you're nursing a headache and just trying to get home to the meds.

    If Obama is such a healing presence (none / 0) (#211)
    by g8grl on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:17:46 PM EST
    and a uniter, how come in 20 years at his church he couldn't talk Rev. Wright into not being so angry at White people?  Someone needs to ask this question.

    It's sort of a joke because (none / 0) (#218)
    by gish720 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:39:07 PM EST
    I remember so well how I was not at all happy with the debate on MSNBC in October when Obama and Edwards went on the attack along with Brian Williams and Tim Russert.  That was amazing and is what made me become a Clinton supporter.  I mean Brian Williams would turn to Obama and ask him what he thought of Clinton's answer which was pretty much unheard of. It's not very becoming when a moderator appears to be attacking the candidate, a partisan moderator.  And I know Charlie Gibson said a couple of things that put him clearly in the republican talking points column.

    Head Scratcher.... (none / 0) (#222)
    by kdog on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:56:31 PM EST
    Why is calling Bill Ayers a friend so terrible again?

    I'm not down with violence...but if I had to choose sides between the Weather Underground and the US Govt....thats a no-brainer:)

    Electability (none / 0) (#225)
    by tree on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 04:30:51 PM EST
    Do you suppose that the majority of voters agree with you. Its like admitting you are an atheist. Nothing wrong at all with that in my book, but try getting elected President as an atheist.

    Parent