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Obama's Gaffe

By Big Tent Democrat

Speaking for me only

Yes, Obama messed up (HuffPo provides audio)

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them... And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Not good. But Obama is a Media Darling and Bill Clinton screwed up today so Obama will get away with it mostly unscathed. That's why he is the better choice for Dem nominee. More . . .

This presents us with a real test of my Obama Media Darling theory. McCain is pounding this:

Asked to respond, McCain adviser Steve Schmidt called it a "remarkable statement and extremely revealing."

"It shows an elitism and condescension towards hardworking Americans that is nothing short of breathtaking," Schmidt said. "It is hard to imagine someone running for president who is more out of touch with average Americans.

Hillary also jumps on it:

"I saw in the media it's being reported that my opponent said that the people of Pennsylvania who faced hard times are bitter. Well, that's not my experience. "As I travel around Pennsylvania, I meet people who are resilient, who are optimistic, who are positive, who are rolling up their sleeves. They are working hard everyday for a better future, for themselves and their children. "Pennsylvanians don't need a president who looks down on them, they need a president who stands up for them, who fights for them, who works hard for your futures, your jobs, your families."

I predict Obama gets away with it. ESPECIALLY now that Hillary is involved. Hillary Hate in the Media trumps McCain Love. See Wright, Jeremiah, so far.

Update (TL): New thread on this topic is here, this one's closing.

< Open Thread | Obama's Response to His Gaffe >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Hillary's response (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by stillife on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:00:54 PM EST
    She said (paraphrasing here) "my opponent says he met bitter people when traveling to PA.  I didn't.  I saw hardworking Americans".

    CNN's got it now (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:03:03 PM EST
    but Candy Crowley somehow seems to be blaming it on Clinton -- for talking about it to the media.  Too lazy to see it all over the place for themselves.

    [ Parent ]
    And now CNN is awaiting . . . WORM (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:05:52 PM EST
    sez Crowley -- "we're awaiting word of what Obama meant"!

    But McCain jumped on this, too, Blitzer reported.  This one is not going away for Obama . . . but it will be fascinating to see what he really meant, huh?

    [ Parent ]

    WORM (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by stillife on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:07:51 PM EST
    A fun game that even the press can play!

    [ Parent ]
    lol!~ it would almost be woth watching CNN (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:19:10 PM EST
    for the WORM. But I shall stick with my local, stress free news. . .. I will not feed the Cable Machine.

    Please report when the WORM has spoken  ;)

    [ Parent ]

    I hadt to do it. I went to the Orange (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:23:18 PM EST
    site to see What Obama Really Meant, and a diarist who says s/he is a Pennsylvanian explains it all to us in terms of how this may help Obama -- because they love them their guns there.

    Uh huh.  

    [ Parent ]

    You know how people are at (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by MarkL on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:27:04 PM EST
    low info sites like DK. They're starved for good  arguments---they can only cling to hope and change.

    [ Parent ]
    Oy. I wander there and check in (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:36:32 PM EST
    on occasion and I read comments that just blow my mind. They can justify and/or spin ANYTHING to an amazing degree.

    The PA folks I know don't love them guns. Just your 'typical working/middle class' families. They are religious, so methinks he struck out there.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm betting they don't love being told... (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by dianem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:48:23 PM EST
    ...that they are turning to their guns in order to deal with bitterness about being left behind economically.

    [ Parent ]
    or turning to religion because they're poor (5.00 / 3) (#158)
    by Josey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:21:42 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    like the folks (5.00 / 3) (#166)
    by stillife on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:25:22 PM EST
    living in Rezko housing in Obama's neighborhood.

    [ Parent ]
    CNN has got it on tape (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:42:02 PM EST
    -- and Gloria Borger, I think, is blathering about how he really has hit it on the head, how we feel out here in the hinterlands.  Thanks, Gloriagrrrrl.

    [ Parent ]
    the media pundits are such hypocrites! (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by Josey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:24:48 PM EST
    How often do they showcase the poor and their problems??


    [ Parent ]
    Tweety was just talking about it (5.00 / 4) (#168)
    by litigatormom on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:26:32 PM EST
    as I came home.  He said, "Well, but we don't know the context in which this statement was made."

    Does Tweety ever ask that question when a statement by Clinton is involved?

    [ Parent ]

    Hillary hits back! (5.00 / 4) (#41)
    by Josey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:24:29 PM EST
    "Pennsylvanians don't need a president who looks down on them. They need a president who stands up for them, who fights for them, who works hard for your futures, your jobs, and your families," she said, implicitly casting Obama as an elitist.

    [ Parent ]
    I feel happy, oh so happy (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by 1jane on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:40:11 PM EST
    My gas costs nearly $4 bucks,my house payments are behind, food costs more, the credit card people keep calling me, the job I was trained for was shipped over seas,I don't have any health insurance, my wife just lost her job at the local cafe, I can't afford to send my kids to college..but I'm not bitter...... I'm happy..... oh so happy......

    [ Parent ]
    why did he talk about PA in CA? (none / 0) (#50)
    by Josey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:28:21 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Well (5.00 / 3) (#92)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:46:09 PM EST
    he couldn't say it in PA now, could he?

    Oh, nope -- Jeff Toobin on CNN says it's not a gaffe at all, as it's true about us out here away from the East.  And Clinton is being really, really unfair.  Oh, and Obama grew up in near-poverty and is not an elitist.  (Toobin, you are a fool without facts.)

    And now Cafferty also says Obama was telling the truth about how people feel, and what we don't get is that they ought to be angry but ought to blame the gummint.   And they're gonna like what Obama said.

    Okay, it must be just me, and this really was a wise and politic thing that Obama said.  Jeesh.

    [ Parent ]

    O.M.G. (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:55:48 PM EST
    Clinton is being unfair by respecting them? And making sure they know they are being listened to/understood in this campaign in general?

    Umm, ok.

    [ Parent ]

    If I have to hear the "near-poverty" (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by Anne on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:59:15 PM EST
    thing one more time..what a crock.

    I can't wait for the people at whom this was directed to weigh in on how much truth Obama was telling.

    Someone needs to tell Obama that this is not how you validate the concerns of the people whose votes you want.

    [ Parent ]

    I would expect that of Cafferty (5.00 / 3) (#114)
    by stillife on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:59:18 PM EST
    Cafferty is all about bitterness.  Toobin has been a disappointment, though.  I would have expected more of him.  He actually said that Barack grew up in near-poverty?  Yikes.

    [ Parent ]
    I didn't think he grew up in near poverty (4.50 / 2) (#181)
    by litigatormom on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:31:31 PM EST
    but I didn't think he was well off, either.  I don't know what his mother and stepfather's economic situation was when he was living in Indonesia as a young child. He went to Hawaii to live with his grandparents because his mother thought he should be in the US.  I thought his grandparents had modest (albeit not poverty level) income.

    But all this is just my impression.  What are the facts?

    [ Parent ]

    I'm not an Obama-expert but (5.00 / 2) (#198)
    by stillife on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:40:59 PM EST
    his grandparents were wealthy enough to send him to an elite private school in Hawaii, after he got his street cred as an urchin in Indonesia. ;)

    The stepfather worked for Shell Oil.  I'm guessing he wasn't a gas pump jockey.

    [ Parent ]

    His grandmother was a bank VP (5.00 / 2) (#210)
    by esmense on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:48:59 PM EST
    which for a woman of her generation may not have meant a lot of money -- but he does seem to have had a financially stable middle class (not affluent but not poor) childhood supported by 4 working adults.He went to private school, he didn't eat government cheese.  But, hell, to someone who makes their living in the national media, affluent small business owners like my husband and me are probably considered "near poverty." It's a distorted perspective.

    [ Parent ]
    I think CA (4.00 / 1) (#205)
    by bigbay on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:44:30 PM EST
    has a high unemployment rate than PA...

    anyhow, our state is in a economic meltdown, so I'm not sure why we are so interested in sniffing at other states. Also, there'a a lot of racism between different ethnic groups in CA.

    [ Parent ]

    Trying to hit a news cycle? {grin} (none / 0) (#74)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:37:37 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    He's the best candidate (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by kredwyn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:04:25 PM EST
    cause the media ignores his screw up and he'll get away with screwing up?

    I had this strange conversation with one of my students who argued that Rush's "the ends justify the means" discourse was an acceptable form of argumentation.

    ::sigh::

    In some ways, I feel like I've failed.

    Ahh, Prof. Kredwyn (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:08:10 PM EST
    (heck, if Obama is a prof, so are you:-)

    I share with you a lesson about grammar I give the first day, attempting to correct some localisms here such as misusing "learn" and "teach."

    I say, "I can't learn you; I can only teach you."

    Take heart.  We can only teach them, and it is up to them whether to learn.

    [ Parent ]

    He's the media favorite (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by myiq2xu on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:36:33 PM EST
    only until he's the official nominee.

    Then they'll go back to their first love, John McStain

    [ Parent ]

    You know it (5.00 / 2) (#187)
    by litigatormom on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:34:57 PM EST
    I just listened to Tweety extol Cindy McCain's desire to be just like Jackie Kennedy when she's First Lady, because she had so much style in the White House and overseas. "Cindy McCain knows the power of glamour."

    Next thing you know, McStain will be the reincarnation of St. Ronnie's cowboy charisma.

    [ Parent ]

    You dropped part of the argument (3.00 / 1) (#9)
    by rilkefan on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:10:18 PM EST
    BTD thinks either candidate would govern similarly.  So electability is all.

    [ Parent ]
    Actually No (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Edgar08 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:16:48 PM EST
    I have never heard BTD say that.

    He has said they have the same positions on the issues.

    Frankly I have never heard BTD say who he thinks will be a better president.

    All BTD ever says is Obama could be crap and the media will call it filet mignon and tell us how much we like it.


    [ Parent ]

    I didn't say anything about better (4.00 / 1) (#57)
    by rilkefan on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:33:48 PM EST
    As I understand the argument, the mean performance expectation value for either is similar, with a rather larger variance about that value for Obama.  (I agree that Obama has a higher upside and lower downside, but I think Clinton would probably be slightly better on average due to experience.)  The most important thing then is to get one of them in the WH.

    I think McCain is toast so this argument doesn't affect me.

    [ Parent ]

    I know what BTD's arguments are... (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by kredwyn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:17:04 PM EST
    with regards to the larger discussion.

    However, I was responding to his point in this post:

    But Obama is a Media Darling and Bill Clinton screwed up today so Obama will get away with it mostly unscathed. That's why he is the better choice for Dem nominee.

    Frankly, I'm not too sure that the "darling" status will go past the convention.

    [ Parent ]

    CBS led with the Bill-Bosnia story! (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by Josey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:55:02 PM EST
    and of course the other 2 networks aired it.
    The CBS segement was very longgggg. Bill Schieffer even showed up to give his R.I.P. for Hillary - "this is the end."

    60 year olds with "senior moments" - ARISE!
    LOL

    [ Parent ]

    The end? (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by kredwyn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:04:52 PM EST
    No, Bob...This is the end.

    [ Parent ]
    How did Bill C. screw up (none / 0) (#188)
    by litigatormom on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:35:39 PM EST
    I have been court out of state all day and just got home.

    [ Parent ]
    Haven't a clue... (none / 0) (#203)
    by kredwyn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:43:01 PM EST
    Have been having weird conversations with students and playing with Danger Kitty.

    [ Parent ]
    Bill brought up Tuzla and the sniper fire. (none / 0) (#209)
    by ChiTownDenny on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:47:22 PM EST
    I believe he (Hillary camp) needed to because the whole "misstatements" call into question her credentials for CiC.  Don't know how successful he was; we'll see.

    [ Parent ]
    I'd like to make a wager with you on this (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by MarkL on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:07:51 PM EST
    one, BTD.
    I've thought Obama is an incredibly weak candidate for a while now, but after this? I don't believe he has any realistic chance of winning the White House.
    Far lighter gaffes have caused more problems for a candidate.

    If the MSM Puts on Obama (5.00 / 7) (#11)
    by BDB on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:12:01 PM EST
    a tenth of what they put on Clinton, he's done.  We've had no indication at all he can withstand any negative press.  Remember how he started to tank after Wright?  The only reason he pulled out of it is that the media let his speech be the end of it.  If they had applied the Clinton/Gore Rules to Obama's speech, he'd be losing PA by 30 points.

    [ Parent ]
    Finding Our Best Selves (3.50 / 2) (#125)
    by 1jane on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:04:25 PM EST
    Obama was explaining to a group of Califonian's at a fundraiser why he is campaigning so hard in PA. Having read the entire transcript Obama stated, "In a lot of communities in big industrial states like PA and OHIO people have been beaten down for so long they feel betrayed by the government. Our goal is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence in their daily lives. Then he added the bit about guns and religion.

    This was no gaffe. This was Obama explaining and demonstrating his understanding of people who struggle hard and our challenged for a long time..some do cling to religion or guns as a form of trying to survive while feeling terribly let down.

    I live in timber country. The glory days of logging are long over, people lost hope and lost opportunities for their children. Being skeptical of candidates and finding simple solutions to explain things to themselves about why things are the way they are; results in bitterness. Obama told the Californians drinking their white wine the reality he faces as a candidate.  There was no talking down. He was talking about lifting up hard pressed communities.

    Clinton's managers and handlers will end up eating crow on this one.

    [ Parent ]

    Lifting them up by what? (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by Fabian on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:10:59 PM EST
    By their bootstraps?

    [ Parent ]
    More shovels! STAT! n/t (5.00 / 3) (#137)
    by tree on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:14:49 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Obama Is Right on Jobs (5.00 / 7) (#146)
    by BDB on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:16:51 PM EST
    But he's wrong and condescending when he tries to tie it to their culture.  Some people in Pennsylvania and Ohio liked their guns and their religion way before the steel industry crashed.  Some people in Ohio and Pennsylvania don't like guns or religion at all.  Which makes it worse because he's essentially reduced working class whites' culture to a series of negative stereotypes (guns, god, and bigotry).  Imagine if Hillary had said something similar about poor blacks in Mississippi.  People would've been outragd and rightly so.

    And, as a political matter, it's this kind of stuff that Republicans have been destroying democratic candidates with in presidential elections.  What do Michael Dukakis, Al Gore, and John Kerry have in common?  They were all portrayed as effete elites who didn't understand the average working American.      

    [ Parent ]

    Oh dear lord (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by Marvin42 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:18:06 PM EST
    How did this become the fault of Clinton campaign? Did they install mind control devices and make him say it?

    And if it so great he said it then why will anyone eat any form of avian creature?

    [ Parent ]

    Maybe... (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by MichaelGale on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:31:15 PM EST
    but his explanation "about them" is rather elitist.

    "They" don't need "lifted up" and "they" are not beaten down. They want what they see as American values reinstated. Many in small town PA do not live in abject poverty.  They want jobs that pay and they want the government to stay out of their business.
    They are loyal to their churches and many do not leave those small towns because they want to be close to family. There are also many who are educated and return to practice in the home town.

    Yes. They do like their guns, hunting is big in PA, and they love their sports but they don't take to being pitied or categorized.

    [ Parent ]

    1jane (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by kmblue on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:34:14 PM EST
    I respectfully point out that it took you three long paragraphs to explain what Obama meant.
    I'm sure you are sincere.  But I think your explanation may get lost.  In today's media environment, the soundbite is what lives.

    [ Parent ]
    And This Is Why (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by BDB on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:10:09 PM EST
    if Bill Clinton hadn't said something stupid today, they would've made something up.  The real reason there's no follow up on the Bachtel story is that it makes Clinton look good.  If Bill had hit the press on that today instead of stepping in it on Bosnia, there would've been either no coverage of it or the coverage would've been about how Bill was "out of control" in his anger at the press.  

    The only possible way this gaffe will get traction is if McCain continues to hammer it (a nice response to any attack about McCain having said he doesn't know anything about economics) or if the local news in Pennsylvania runs with it.  

    Otherwise, it will be all Clinton, all the time.  Doesn't matter what they do or say, these folks are obsessed.  Or, as Chris Matthew has said, "We all talk about the Clintons, I have never been at a party where it doesn't become a topic. Who are we gonna talk about? Bob Dole? John Kerry? Al Gore?"

    Hillary hate (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:11:21 PM EST
    may trump McCain love now but that doesnt mean he will be more electable in the general.
    this comment will be a general election issue.
    as will Wright.
    expect commercials on both.


    Reminds me too much of (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Joelarama on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:12:38 PM EST
    Michael Dukakis.  I'm not optimistic about November.  


    you and me both (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:13:42 PM EST
    if Obama is the nominee all we can hope for is a good congressional election.

    [ Parent ]
    Would you care for some (none / 0) (#25)
    by MarkL on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:17:43 PM EST
    arugula with that belgian endive?

    [ Parent ]
    Well Bill's gaffe hasn't been on local news (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:13:40 PM EST
    here in NYC. No mention at noon, 5PM and so far they haven't done politics on the 6PM cycle. It may hit the 6:30 national news. And we're playing Boston tonight, so half the city will be watching that and not flipping to cable and catching Bill's gaffe, lol!~

    McCain's response points out exactly where Obama's weak spot is now, and will be in the GE. Connecting with the 'average' American. So far, McCain's mentioned the MI/FL no votes and now this . . . I think O's going to have problems in the 'big states.

    guns religions and antipathy (5.00 / 0) (#16)
    by Turkana on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:14:30 PM EST
    are the opiates of the people?

    Yikes, MSNBC just called him a flip-flopper (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:18:10 PM EST
    for switching his stance on public financing, going with the McCain line on Obama.

    This anti-small town Pennsylvania gaffe is even gonna be on MSNBC, maybe, at this rate.  And will it go all weekend, typically slow/no news days?

    double yikes (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by angie on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:15:54 PM EST
    Obama girl Tweety make fun of Obama asking for Orange Juice after being offered coffee at a diner as an illustration of his inability to relate to the common folk. Can the bloom be off the rose for Tweety's Obama love? Are pigs flying?
    http://mediamatters.org/items/200804110004
    BTW -- I think it is bs to make fun of Obama for preferring OJ to coffee -- but I do fault him for his rudeness -- when someone offers you something, the answer is either "Yes, thank you" or "No, thank you" not just "I'll take (something else)" with no "thank you" at all.  My mom would slap me up the side of my head if I ever responded to an offer of one thing with a request for another thing.  Again, where is the political acumen or common manners?


    [ Parent ]
    ya think? (5.00 / 7) (#32)
    by cpinva on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:20:00 PM EST
    But Obama is a Media Darling and Bill Clinton screwed up today so Obama will get away with it mostly unscathed. That's why he is the better choice for Dem nominee. More . . .

    let me assume, for the moment, that you, BTD were alive and conscious during the 2000 & 2004 elections. that being the case, surely you must have noticed the "liberal" media bashing of candidates gore and kerry. to miss it required you to be comatose.

    in the case of messrs. gore and kerry, most of said bashing was made up nonsense ("claims to have invented the internet", "elitest sailboarding", etc.), that the repub/right-wingnut smear machine picked up on and pounded into the dirt. of course, the most infamous was the "swiftboaters for truth" gang, flogged incessently by the "liberal" media.

    ufortunately, with obama, they needn't even make stuff up, his script writes itself; rezko, wright, throwing white grandma under the bus for "racial" understanding, etc.

    my male cat is more electable than sen. obama. he (my cat) freely admits he's lazy, has never listened to me (or a sermon) his entire life, and really just wants his tummy rubbed. what's not to like?

    you taking real money bets on obama? if so, i want a piece of that action, it'll be the easiest money i ever made.

    Exactly! (5.00 / 0) (#97)
    by jen on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:48:03 PM EST
    I honestly don't understand how anyone who lived through the past 2 presidential elections can think the Repubs and thus the media will be "soft" on the Dem candidate!

    I see the whole thing as a perfect set up for them. Obama is the person they would have hand picked from a boatload of Dems to be McCain's opponent!

    Thing is, I don't think they counted on how hard Hillary would fight. They probably assumed she'd be long gone by now. But ya know what? She ain't goin' nowhere! And neither are her supporters!

    General Clark spoke with one of the bloggers at his blog -- I'll cut and paste what she said he said:

    ORDERS FROM THE GENERAL

    I'm always conscious of taking too much of the General's time in a public setting where there are so many so eager to visit with him. But each time that I sensed my `good will' time had expired and I'd back off to leave, waving "Bye-Bye, General Clark!"-- Wes would elbow past some patient person in line, come up to me and start in again. Looking at me sternly and reminding me I need to keep fighting for this, for him, for Hillary.

    I've never known Wes to reiterate anything so much as that afternoon, when he kept emphatically repeating:

    Now look! You've got to keep fighting this! You've got to keep it up- all of you! Keep fighting. Don't give up! Don't stop!

    I felt like a private first class getting my marching orders from a, er... highly motivated General! :)

    I accepted the `call to duty' but restated just how brutal it had been lately for so many of us - the levels of vitriol being so high-pitched... making it at times insufferable to even blog.

    Looking both really sad and mad simultaneously, Wes responded:

    "I know! Even my own team - my blog - has been split up over this."

    I was struck by his heartfelt and pained expression. We know he reads and loves his blog and his bloggers -- but calling us "my team- my blog" in that plaintive voice, seemed at once so parental and so caring... It felt as though we were all some sort of surrogate kids he'd adopted, whom he wants to flourish but equally wants to protect. Hmmm... So that would make Wes and Gert kind of like the Brad and Angelina of the net, and.... Okay, okay, I may be reading too much into it ;b-- but I can tell you that Wes is deeply saddened by CCN being torn apart and by any semblance of Clarkie Civil (or uncivil?) Wars taking place.

    I nodded and commiserated with him, then politely started to head out again, waving goodbye....

    Again-- he leaned forward and stressed:

    "You've got to keep fighting! On the net, everywhere, you've got to fight this!"

    Yes, General, got it... Keep fighting.

    By this time, I'm already tired and haven't even begun this `new fight' yet, heh -- But whether it's from here at CCN, or elsewhere - I know that complying with the General's latest orders is now well drummed into my head and atop the agenda. ;) Something in his voice, his face, his body language-- convinced me that this little netroots fight for accuracy and parity on behalf of Hillary Clinton is much more critical in the scheme of things than it appears on the surface. With this unbridled passion emanating from a Four Star General, a "Supreme Allied Commander", who has successfully wrangled a few gnarly enemies of his own in his day... Something tells me we should all be paying attention.

    We are all Wes Clark's virtual troops right now and he wants his troops to be battle ready and on the front lines. He's a little cranky, :-) and not in the mood to hear excuses. I hope we can make him proud of us.



    [ Parent ]
    Don't we all, brother. Don't we all... (none / 0) (#59)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:34:38 PM EST
    he's lazy, has never listened to me (or a sermon) his entire life, and really just wants his tummy rubbed


    [ Parent ]
    Backbone (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by Petey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:21:57 PM EST
    "Obama will get away with it mostly unscathed. That's why he is the better choice for Dem nominee."

    The fact that General Electric wants a Democratic nominee opposed to universal healthcare isn't reason for the Democratic Party to nominate GE's candidate.

    It's time for the Democratic Party to have a little backbone.

    Opposed? (none / 0) (#62)
    by rilkefan on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:35:11 PM EST
    Seems like an exaggerated description of what's likely a political, not policy stance.

    [ Parent ]
    You Think He's Kidding? (5.00 / 3) (#116)
    by Petey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:00:55 PM EST
    You've gotta be out of your fricking mind.  Obama has run ads attacking universal healthcare intentionally echoing the Republican 'Harry & Louise' ads multiple times in multiple media.

    You think he's just kidding?

    Obama has towed the General Electric line on attacking universal healthcare and not being willing to strongly defend Social Security.

    That may be good for GE Healthcare and GE Financial, but it's not good for the Democratic Party or the Democratic electorate.

    Armando may think that it's a good deal to sell out the jewels of social insurance in order to get good press coverage from General Electric.  I profoundly disagree.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama getting some hits tonight (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by waldenpond on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:22:00 PM EST
    Fox has spent multiple minutes on this.  They led with it at 5:00 and 6:00.  They broke in with McCain's comments (extremely revealing, arrogance, elitism) and Clinton's comments (bitter, not my experience, resilient, etc. someone who looks down on them?.)  CNN led off with this at 6:00.  Covered Clinton's response.   MSNBC?  They were on Obama for Carter, wanting to involve Iran in the Iraq situation, Carter an opportunity to take a stand, he looks weak and slippery. Covering street money in Penn.

    Response from Obama supporters... he's right.  uhhh yeah, good strategy... arrogance and condescension will win over the working class.. pffft.

    The Obama supporters also (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by MarkL on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:36:03 PM EST
    said Wright was right, in the end.
    Their are multiple diaries per day at Daily Obama and MyDD on what a great guy Wright is.


    [ Parent ]
    Yup. (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by RickTaylor on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:23:41 PM EST
    Definitely a gaffe. How hard can it be to remember the principle, don't insult the voters when you're running for office? Hillary's campaign has done the same sort of thing, but at least they waited until after the votes were counted in the primaries in question latte drinkers, and I don't remember it ever being Hillary herself who made that sort of remark.

    well, when you think about it (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:32:34 PM EST
    Obama said the same thing that Power said to the Scotsman, which is that only stupid, desperate people vote for Clinton.

    It was a winning strategy in Ohio.  For Clinton.

    This is the same problem with Gore and Kerry--their inability to vote with the core of the democratic party.  You know, the folks who stayed home rather than vote for someone who appeared elitist?

    Clinton is setting herself up nicely as the person fighting for the little guy.  It's a golden strategy.  She should know-she saw it work sixteen years ago.

    [ Parent ]

    Bingo. You got it -- it's an elitist line (5.00 / 3) (#72)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:37:24 PM EST
    and (see comment upthread) Clinton called it perfectly as Obama "looking down his nose" at those small-town, provincial Pennsylvanians.  

    The Pennsylvania polls ought to be interesting about three days from now.

    [ Parent ]

    I tried listening to the audio linked above. (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by RickTaylor on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:40:48 PM EST
    It's really difficult to hear, but I do think the rest of his remarks sound a lot better. He was saying, these people have have been faced with real hardship, and now they're asking who is this Obama and how he can he help us? What's the concrete thing he's going to do for me? That doesn't matter politically of course; not many are going to listen to the whole thing. Are discourse runs on soundbites. I'll be interested to see how he follows up; every politician makes gaffes,the question is how do they recover?

    [ Parent ]
    Hmm...how did you feel about (4.00 / 1) (#93)
    by rooge04 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:46:52 PM EST
    Hillary's Bosnia gaffe? Or was she just lying?

    [ Parent ]
    Who in Hell cares? (5.00 / 4) (#110)
    by oldpro on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:58:13 PM EST
    The Bosnians won't be voting, will they?

    [ Parent ]
    Exactly, when you read or listen to the WHOLE (4.00 / 1) (#149)
    by 1jane on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:17:47 PM EST
    of Obama's remarks he is not saying anything like looking down on anyone.

    [ Parent ]
    I listened to it (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by Marvin42 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:19:24 PM EST
    And I think he comes across a lot better than in written form. But keep this in mind: the other side WONT play the entire thing, just that little bleep.

    [ Parent ]
    I could not understand a word of it (none / 0) (#85)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:41:46 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Karl rove has a little nap sack (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:26:51 PM EST
    where he keeps all of these ditties that he can bring out in the general election.  Nope, won't get much airplay in the primaries.  The primaries about about Clinton hate.  But the 527's and Karl are salivating already.

    Headline contest for tomorrow: (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by dianem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:27:19 PM EST
    "CLINTON LIES"

    versus

    "OBAMA CALLS RURAL PEOPLE BITTER, GUN-TOTING, BIGOTED RELIGIOUS FANATICS"

    The one trick unity pony (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Practically Lactating on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:28:15 PM EST
    has all sorts of life lessons to teach we low information voters. His insights on typical white women, typical small town Pennsylvanians, and typical small town Midwesterners are truly fascinating!

    Obama Media Darling Treatment (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Truth Partisan on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:31:38 PM EST
    1)How does it compare to Bush Media Darling treatment?

    2)What about the old repeating cycle--where the GOP recycles the same old complaints?
    Actually this highlight on Obama is a recycling of the same ol' windsurfing Kerry kind of theme (see www.dailyhowler.com for long term records--Bob's great on this.) Hey they're even using flip-flopper again!

    I personally resent Obama's comments but how do we push back against too much vilification of Obama?

    This kind of thing--crazed media over-attention--is bad for the long term health of the Democrats--who, ironically, are mainly the party of regular people these days...we see and address the problems in good ways, etc., etc.

    Crazed media over-attention. (none / 0) (#77)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:38:27 PM EST
    This kind of thing--crazed media over-attention--is bad for the long term health of the Democrats.

    All that Democrats have to do is to NOT recruit inexperienced, gaffe-happy candidates to run for president.  It's as simple as that.

    [ Parent ]

    Or leave people like Daschle (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Anne on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:47:20 PM EST
    and Kerry out of the candidate-picking process.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, another test (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by andgarden on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:39:50 PM EST
    the trouble is that we haven't been able to measure it in isolation of Hillary being the opponent.

    Impenetrable gobbledygook (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by MarkL on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:43:24 PM EST
    at Daily Obama:
    Not even Josh Marshall can match this obtuse parsing

    If that's WORM, I'll have another shot.

    Has an air of desperation about it too (none / 0) (#157)
    by badger on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:21:39 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Oh my! (none / 0) (#167)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:26:04 PM EST
    That diary is utterly pathetic.  Talk about twisting yourself into a pretzel!


    [ Parent ]
    Spin Spin (none / 0) (#195)
    by Josmt on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:40:13 PM EST
    He spinned that like a YoYo...

    [ Parent ]
    Obama says (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by bjorn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:47:30 PM EST
    ...if John McCain wants a debate about who is out of touch with Americans we can talk about tax breaks for the rich."  But he doesn't say what he really meant by his own comments.

    Media silence now is meaningless (5.00 / 3) (#96)
    by pluege on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:47:55 PM EST
    But Obama is a Media Darling and Bill Clinton screwed up today so Obama will get away with it mostly unscathed. That's why he is the better choice for Dem nominee.

    Media silence on this now doesn't mean that the cult of republicanism - including the GOP corporate media - won't zero in on this like a laser if Obama is the dem nominee. Today's gaffe is just a deposit in the smear bank that we'll hear about in spades come September if Obama is the dem. They'll be no Bill Clinton distractions, only media darling mccain, and Obama. Obama will take a beating and he better have some pretty damn good, lighting quick responses as even non-gaffes are turned into negatives.


    The media is fickle (5.00 / 5) (#105)
    by Sunshine on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:55:08 PM EST
    That is no reason to be for Obama, because the media treats him better...   I just don't like Obama, and really I don't know what I will do if Hillary doesn't get the nomination...  Obama is a spoiled brat that has not had the hardships that other candidates have had..   John McCain and Hillary have both had to fight their ways through this campaign but not Obama... He's had all the advantages and still he is about even with Hillary...  Good press, lots of money and the AA's that have always been Clinton supporters have flipped due to race not because he is better(Oh we're not supposed to talk about race)  In fact the Obama campaign tells what we can or can't talk about or they send Donna Brazille to tell us... I'm tired of the kind of treatment that we have been getting and I don't plan on giving them my vote after being treated this way...

    . . . is the possible perception that Sen. Obama is an atheist.

    To get elected in America, you have to bow and scrape before the religious people, and tell them how great their values are, how important faith is, and how they're superior to unbelievers.  You have to tell them stories about your own religious belief, and how it's made you a better person (than if you were an atheist).

    Sen. Obama stopped telling this story when he was in the company of other extremely wealthy liberals.  And now he got caught.  Oops.

    This Sunday nite's debate (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by oldpro on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:04:53 PM EST
    is supposed to be about faith, etc. ... no?

    Oh, my.

    Guess what one of the questions will be?

    [ Parent ]

    Actually, what he said makes no sense, (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by ahazydelirium on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:58:10 PM EST
    at least to me. It's assuming that general bigotry follows hard economic/social times. Personally, I think bigotry (and specifically, the dislike/distrust of "difference") precedes any sentiments he mentioned. You are not mad at the immigrant because he took your job; you are at mad at the immigrant and use the joblessness to justify it.

    Reminds me "ingrown" comment he... (5.00 / 0) (#112)
    by Exeter on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:58:39 PM EST
    made about rural Iowans... saying Iowa could show the rest of the world they aren't a bunch of hicks if they vote him.

    He has a lovely way of classifying (none / 0) (#141)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:15:38 PM EST
    people, especially for a Magical Unity Pony

    [ Parent ]
    It's on audio tape (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by waldenpond on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:01:44 PM EST
    He's frigging on tape!  It's bad enough when it is quoted, but he's on tape.  527 fodder.

    WORDS (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by hedyanne on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:01:47 PM EST
    He is always talking about bringing the world togeather and now he comes out with these words. If you start adding all the things that he and his wife have said it's starting to look like the real Obama is coming out.

    this aint gonna (5.00 / 3) (#121)
    by isaac on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:01:58 PM EST
    do him any favors in north carolina neither

    He did not know (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by bjorn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:04:27 PM EST
    about the recording. He thought it was a closed event.  OOOPS!

    Was this the same event where he dissed (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:17:42 PM EST
    Hillary's First Lady experience (I think that's what it was) and the audience laughed? If so, that is SO gonna backfire . . .

    [ Parent ]
    Mayhill was not (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by bjorn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:07:05 PM EST
    going to write about gaffe "because I did not want to bring down his campaign" but then she thought about it and did not think what he said was fair or right!!!!

    CNN leading (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by waldenpond on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:13:43 PM EST
    They had on the woman who broke the story.  She is an Huffpo citizen reporter that has been following Obama for months.  She had been in Penn with Obama and was at the event in CA.  She wrote up his other comments, and didn't want to write up these comments because she didn't want to bring down the campaign, but the comments bothered her so much (reinforcing negative stereotypes)  she wrote them up.

    Bill Scheifer: people will find it untrue, condescending, insulting.... will need an explanation form Obama and MAYBE an apology.  The reporter was bothered, others in the room bothered.

    Obama camp responded that they did not have a tape. Second response about anger with govt, politicians saying anything to get elected, McCain, Bush.....  I guess they haven't found anyone to blame yet.

    Gloria Borger: bitter inartful way of saying angry but I don't want to say what Obama meant!  Ha!  Ha!

    Yeah someone else is watching (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by bjorn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:15:14 PM EST
    Martin from Politico is now predicting BIG problem for Obama in PA

    [ Parent ]
    How are they gonna blame this one on Clinton? (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:20:40 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    She made him say it (5.00 / 3) (#175)
    by stillife on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:29:24 PM EST
    by staying in the race.

    The nerve of that woman!

    [ Parent ]

    CNN has really flip-flopped on this (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:22:36 PM EST
    in record time.  See my earlier comment re the Wolf Blitzer show reaction from Borger and Toobin blowing this off and saying it would be no problem for Obama but rilly, rilly bad for Clinton to speak to it.

    Watching the lightbulb come on over talking heads is fun, as they begin to get that The Perfect Man just may have been caught saying something so impolitic.

    Btw, since Obama uses basic speeches over and over . . . I wouldn't be surprised to hear people come out of the woodwork to say he said something like this before -- and before and before. . . .

    [ Parent ]

    Understanding that (3.00 / 1) (#156)
    by 1jane on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:21:07 PM EST
    people feel screwed is just awful!! It's a You Tube moment.

    [ Parent ]
    cnn hasnt shut up (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by isaac on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:15:01 PM EST
    about this and tweety hasnt mentioned it once since i turned the boob tube on.  i think these comments are the beginning of the end for him, and will certainly lay the groundwork for the out of touch elitist tag they're already prepping him for in the general should he get the nomination.  these comments are pure deadly poison, hillary should be cutting a spot now!  btw, i personally find them offensive, people turn to guns?!

    and religion! (none / 0) (#145)
    by bjorn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:15:57 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    He meant gun rights (none / 0) (#174)
    by daryl herbert on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:29:23 PM EST
    btw, i personally find them offensive, people turn to guns?!

    When Sen. Obama said that people turn to "guns," he did not mean they would pick up guns and shoot people.

    He was talking about the issue of gun rights.  A significant fraction--maybe even a majority--of working class white men in Pennsylvania (and just about every other state in America) interpret the 2nd Amendment to mean: an individual right to keep and bear semi-automatic firearms, and consider this right to be sacrosanct, on par with the 1st Amendment.

    Sen. Obama himself has pandered on this issue, sometimes telling these voters that the 2nd Amendment protects an "individual right," and other times telling journalists that cities should have the right to completely ban gun ownership.

    [ Parent ]

    I agree that's what he meant (none / 0) (#191)
    by Democratic Cat on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:37:44 PM EST
    Of course, it still makes no sense. People believe in gun rights because they are bitter that Bill Clinton didn't make their jobs return?

    He said what he did to pander to the sensibilities and stroke the egos of a group of California donors. Nothing against California--I loved it there and hope to move back someday. But I would bet you donuts to dollars that most of the people in that room do not understand Middle America. Telling his donors that those rubes in Pennsylvania were religious and supported gun rights because they were bitter about their oun lack of economic opportunity was only marginally better than just plain calling them stupid.

    [ Parent ]

    Tweety did do a segment (none / 0) (#179)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:31:22 PM EST
    on it.  All agreed it was a possibly important gaffe and that Hillary responded masterfully.  But they're all clearly waiting to see what EVERYBODY ELSE says about it before they completely commit themselves.

    Unfortunately, it's a Friday evening.  May not be remembered by Monday-- especially if Big Dog doesn't keep his damn mouth shut!

    [ Parent ]

    Heh. (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by lansing quaker on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:15:40 PM EST
    No wonder Obama doesn't want that revote in Michigan.  And he sure won't want it now.

    Oops.  Our economy is bad!  And it's those foreigners!

    Obama wants to play kissyface with the liberal/wealthy wing of the Democratic party, while the rank and file will sit at home - quite possibly polishing their guns while reading scripture.

    Oy.  It just raises my ire.

    Um, Hillary *gets* Pennsylvania (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by goldberry on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:20:58 PM EST
    Sorry, BTD.  Obama really stepped in it.  It just confirms what many people have been thinking about him for awhile.  He doesn't want to be associated with people who are working class or aren't DINKS who wear their progressivism on their sleeves like a status symbol but have no idea what it is like to actually work hard to achieve that next rung on the social ladder.  
    What he doesn't know about PA is going to get him into big trouble there.  It has nothing to do with race because he codes as white.  Those voters were taken in by rightwing talk radio and most of them are waking up to realize how they were swindled.  They sure as hell don't need some snotty, young Harvard trained lawyer and his overzealous followers telling them how they can now participate as the gammas and deltas of Obama's Brave New World.  No, that would not go over well at all.  In fact, it is likely to confirm all that Rush has said about the Democratic party in the past decade.  
    Why do you support this guy again?  I still can't figure out if you're serious or not.  It just seems so unlikely for someone as level-headed as you are.  

    He's a talented man (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by ChiTownDenny on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:35:57 PM EST
    who has no resume, no experience.  He has a great (Chicago) team behind him but is he ready to run for Prez?  This is one of many gaffs.  The difference is this is getting some air-play.  We'll see how much and how much damage.  IMO, this is Jeremiah Wright, Tuzla/Bosnia, and "I voted for it before I didn't vote for it".

    [ Parent ]
    It will also get him in trouble (none / 0) (#207)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:44:46 PM EST
    in Ohio, Michigan,