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The New Obama Strategy: Clinton Should Stay In The Race

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:26:06 PM EST
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By Big Tent Democrat

The Obama camp got smart:

As she endorsed Illinois Sen. Barack Obama's presidential bid Monday morning, Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar rebuked fellow Democrats who are pressuring New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton to cede the party's nomination. "I believe that Sen. Clinton should remain in this race," Klobuchar told reporters in a conference call announcing her decision to back Obama. "I don't agree with some of my colleagues' comments this week.

Ok. At least someone has some good sense in the Obama camp. More so than that displayed by some Obama supporters.

Update TL: Comments now closed.

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    The New Obama Strategy: Clinton Should Stay In The Race | 188 comments (188 topical)
    will be interesting to track (5.00 / 9) (#1)
    by Turkana on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:28:21 PM EST
    how many of those telling her to get out are men, and how many of those not doing so are women.

    That's what it sounds like, all right (5.00 / 6) (#7)
    by andgarden on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:33:53 PM EST
    Chris Dodd and Pat Leahy just exude "white male establishment," so they were really the wrong people to do this.

    [ Parent ]
    not to mention (5.00 / 8) (#19)
    by Turkana on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:40:18 PM EST
    certain prominent bloggers...

    [ Parent ]
    I almost broke the TeeVee with Leahy (5.00 / 4) (#27)
    by nycstray on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:47:11 PM EST
    He was such the wrong man to do it. And the way he said it, I almost hurled a glass at his image.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeh, Leahy sounded SO weary of women (none / 0) (#48)
    by Cream City on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:04:47 PM EST
    who just won't get out of the way and go back where they belong.  I could not believe his "tone," in Michelle Obama's terms -- the sort of tone that could keep me from voting for a Dem for the first time.  

    I also almost threw something at the tv, seriously -- I finally only threw a wadded-up piece of paper, but it didn't give me much sense of satisfaction.:-)

    I wonder how many tv's across the country narrowly escaped destruction because of Leahy last week.

    [ Parent ]

    Keep rolled up socks handy (5.00 / 6) (#60)
    by nycstray on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:12:21 PM EST
    That's what we did for live blogging of FDA/USDA  updates during the pet food recalls. It saved breaking things and holes in walls. And if you have a dog, toss tennis balls, lol!~

    [ Parent ]
    Actually, I had two cats (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by Cream City on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:25:56 PM EST
    sicken during that and die -- both of stomach problems.  It was the end of an era, as we had gotten them in 1992 and named them Bill and Al.

    I've had such a distrust of pet food since, for my new kitten, and am checking constantly for any word of warning.  My vet feels the same, saw a lot of pets die of sudden, inexplicable stomach problems.  He calls it poisoning, and I won't soon forget it was brought to us by conservative deregulation and defunding of much that the FDA used to do. . . .

    [ Parent ]

    I'm so sorry :( (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by nycstray on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:38:39 PM EST
    ugh, that's just horrible. I was online with lots of people who were going through it. I had already been a raw feeder for 5 yrs because of my dog's needs (Dals need a certain diet), so I escaped it. I have 5 cats. Hope your enjoying your new kitten  :) You know about http://itchmoforums.com/index.php  ? they have good info and stay on top of any food problems.

    I learned to distrust more than pet food during that time. I cleared my kitchen out of everything and started over from scratch. And I was a pretty much no processed food person to start with.

    One reason I support Hillary is her tougher stands on food and Import safety. She always brings up pet food when discussing the issue. The others, nope.

    [ Parent ]

    Thanks, Just Thanks (5.00 / 3) (#76)
    by Athena on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:25:27 PM EST
    Nice for Obama to give his permission for Hillary to stay in.  

    [ Parent ]
    And in such (none / 0) (#105)
    by nemo52 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:00:27 PM EST
    a patronising way, as well. . .

    [ Parent ]
    Leahy supports women's rights (none / 0) (#193)
    by angie on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:48:36 PM EST
    as long as they stay in the kitchen. /snark

    [ Parent ]
    I think they may have succeeded... (none / 0) (#170)
    by sar75 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:08:01 PM EST
    ...the "Clinton should get out" storyline may have actually succeeded, at least partially. It appears that more and more people think Obama's nomination is going to happen one way or the other.  That may be driving the Gallup poll numbers in part (that along with sniper-gate and the growing number of superdelegates committing or about the commit to Obama).

    So, while this Obama supporter thinks Clinton should stay in (and maybe actually be making Obama a better GE candidate), the surrogates may have helped shift the tide back toward Obama by suggesting that she leave.

    Okay, go on, pile on.  Tell me this was an extremely partisan post, delusional, whatever.  I expect it here. :)

    [ Parent ]

    I've never seen people pile on (none / 0) (#173)
    by Joelarama on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:10:03 PM EST
    to a reasonable post like yours at this website.

    [ Parent ]
    Sadly (none / 0) (#177)
    by nell on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:19:52 PM EST
    I think you are right.

    And it makes me so angry.

    Tactics like this may help him with the nomination, but they are being short sighted. They are not thinking about Clinton supporters like myself who they will need to win the general election.

    Also...never count a Clinton out until she counts herself out....

    [ Parent ]

    The Clinton should get out story line (none / 0) (#197)
    by Just another person on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:11:49 PM EST
    you know the one that she should get out otherwise the party will be divided beyond repair? It seems like a CYA tactic from the O-Camp. If he doesn't win the GE, you can bet they'll point to this time and blame Hillary for not bowing out so Obama could do his Unity Pony magic trick and get everyone to rally behind him.

    [ Parent ]
    I don't know. (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by inclusiveheart on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:35:10 PM EST
    Maybe I'm naive, but I don't take these comments as sexist.  I just think some of these people believe they have an opportunity to control the party for the first time in years.

    What I think is really interesting is how tone deaf some of them seem to be.  This race is too close for some of the grandstanding I'm witnessing.  Each of these candidates will need the other's supporters when the nomination is finalized - not to mention some of these states yet to primary or caucus - and yet some of these supposedly experienced pols have completely overlooked those important facts.

    [ Parent ]

    I don't know that Leahy (5.00 / 4) (#98)
    by kiosan on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:52:56 PM EST
    intended to be sexist, but when the white male establishment comes out in full force to tell the little lady to get out of the man's way so he can win without having to do any more earning, well, that outs a certain spin on things - particularly to women who've had to deal with these kinds of attitudes in their own lives.

    You mix that up with so many of the other comments about Clinton (her knees, her pants suits, her insistence on - gasp - winning, etc) and it develops into a pattern.

    In addition, it's counterproductive.  The harder they push the idea that she's being uppity by standing in the man's way, the more she'll dig in and refuse to leave.  She can't allow people, particularly possible future constituents, to think she's being bullied out of the race.  It indicates weakness, which we all know is anathema in a female candidate for any office.

    I'm willing to bet that if the situations were reversed, Obama's supporters would take great umbrage at the idea that a candidate so close in numbers with a valid, albeit small, chance still at the nomination should bow out before the race was actually over just to make it easier on the opposition.  I imagine they qould be quite put out.

    [ Parent ]

    "outs" a certain spin = (none / 0) (#101)
    by kiosan on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:54:07 PM EST
    "puts" a certain spin.

    Darned spellchecker...

    [ Parent ]

    Would Leahy's words be off if HRC was a man? (none / 0) (#153)
    by pluege on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 09:04:44 PM EST
    If you make HRC a man, can you still assess Leahy as somehow biased, or just carrying water for his guy. If the words and tone are acceptable with HRC a man, then its not sexist, and the accusation of Leahy as sexist is unwarranted.

    [ Parent ]
    As I noted (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by kiosan on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 09:10:08 PM EST
    I don't believe Leahy necessarily intended to be sexist.  The problem is the pattern of comments over time, not any one comment in isolation.

    And if Leahy and Clinton were both men, no it would not be the same.  Of course, if Clinton were a man, no one would be complaining about her entering a race with the intention to win it.

    [ Parent ]

    I disagree with this premise (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by ahazydelirium on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:05:48 PM EST
    Context matters greatly, and current understanding of the binary categories of man and woman are vastly different, informed by radically different histories. I don't think you can conflate the two in the example you've offered. In a post-gender (or perhaps gender-equal) society, your point would be quite valid; however, we have not reached such a point.

    While I prefer to think Leahy never intended to be sexist, his language is sexist because of a context he cannot control. It doesn't look good to have a man telling a woman to give up. You can claim that it's just as likely he would say it to a man, but we don't have that luxury of speculation: he didn't, he can't. We have only the context now, with this example. This candidacy is a historical one, tied intimately with concerns of gender. It just doesn't look good to tell her to step aside. Many of us (men and women) have been trained to recognize how typically sexist that sentiment appears, no matter the motivation (for even the most sincere motivations can be wrong).

    On the flipside, if everyone pushed Hillary along solely because she was a woman, it would be equally troubling because it stills speaks to an intense focus on gender. At its core, it is still sexism--only in different garb.

    This is the plight of all -isms: you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. We're living in an era when these concerns are so prevalent because conventional identities are eroding while new ones are emerging. And we aren't quite sure what to do about it. If we make it to a point in social development when the isms vanish, then you're point will be well-taken and claims of sexism, racism, etc. will seem antiquated. But, as a whole society, we have not reached that point. No matter how often Maureen Dowd tells us we have.

    [ Parent ]

    now I know why I liked it here (none / 0) (#176)
    by bjorn on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:15:59 PM EST
    lots to learn.  This is a very thoughtful post.  Why aren't there any real scholarly, intelligent feminists out there being asked to comment on the race?  Why isn't there someone providing this kind of macro perspective to what is happening?  Can't MSNBC or CNN find someone? Or is there one and I have been missing her? I thought at first Rachel Maddow might be able to go there, but she falls short too often, and most of the time she doesn't even try.  We could make so much progress if we just had this kind of commentary all over the place.  It was really enlightening for me to listen to Dwight Hopkins on Fresh Air today.  He provided me with a lot of context for Rev Wright and the Black church.  It sucks that tv news has stayed away from this kind of insightful commentary.

    [ Parent ]
    It's a sad state of affairs, to be sure. (none / 0) (#187)
    by ahazydelirium on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:38:57 PM EST
    Intellectual apathy has much to do with it, and our culture conditions for it: instant soundbyte news, fast food, SparkNotes, etc. These elements reveal an underlying phenomenon of quick, already digested information.

    People don't like to have fundamental ideas of the world altered. Reasonably so, it's frightening to have to change our worldviews. Or, more tragically, they don't like to acknowledge their role in a global society. That is, they prefer to think of themselves solely as individuals. And that is patently untrue: we might be individuals, but our individuality is irrelevant without a context of others.

    The sad thing is, if people do offer comments, they are usually dismissed as elitist or condescending. Talking down to, instead of trying to open a new dialogue. Change is long and hard, and it certainly isn't marketable. That's why we don't see it on television! :(

    [ Parent ]

    well thanks for (none / 0) (#196)
    by bjorn on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:10:40 PM EST
    taking the time to do it here! I can't get enough.

    [ Parent ]
    fair point, but.. (none / 0) (#156)
    by bjorn on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 09:09:57 PM EST
    did he tell Kennedy to get out in 1980 when he was losing to Carter?  Just wondering.  I don't think we know if Leahy would have said it to a man in this situation.  If you see the race as close, as I do, then it was wrong-headed if not sexist.

    [ Parent ]
    Have McCaskill and Sibelius (none / 0) (#29)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:52:24 PM EST
    weighed in?

    [ Parent ]
    No (none / 0) (#31)
    by nell on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:55:08 PM EST
    they both went oddly silent, along with Kennedy, after the Wright stuff broke...

    Except for that one interview McCaskill did with a small Missouri newspaper when she put her foot in her mouth about Barack finally not presenting himself as a victim or something. From the article in the paper, it seemed she was taking some heat from her constituents.

    [ Parent ]

    Howard Dean (none / 0) (#135)
    by squeaky on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:24:17 PM EST
    A woman? Who knew.

    [ Parent ]
    Dean's response was reasonable (none / 0) (#146)
    by kiosan on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:47:53 PM EST
    and on-target, as far as I'm concerned.  Clinton has every right to stay in the race until and unless she decides to get out, and doesn't need anyone's permission to do so.  

    Having surrogates tell her she's being a bad Dorothy by actually remaining a contender is patronizing, at best.

    Dean's comments were a welcome change from the narrative.  They were, however, long overdue and somewhat in contrast to his request for an end on July 1.

    [ Parent ]

    Permission? (none / 0) (#162)
    by squeaky on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 09:25:15 PM EST
    It is more a thing of support, and support for the Democratic party.
    As BTD points out over and over Leadeship has to be neutral.

    And then there is Pelosi... cough cough.

    [ Parent ]

    Dean's comment didn't smack of permission (none / 0) (#163)
    by kiosan on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 09:33:44 PM EST
    The way those who said "welcome" and "can" did.  As I recall, he stated the no one but the candidate can tell the candidate when to leave.  That's fair, gender neutral, unbiased language, favoring no one candidate over any other.

    I've no problem whatsoever with Dean's statement as I read it.

    I'm not sure if you're trying to goad me into having a problem, or just checking my feminist credentials to see if I pass the written.

    Pelosi's comments were not the same as Dean's, and were not candidate-neutral.  She is not candidate neutral, and while I'd prefer if DNC leadership remained so, I'd rather they declare than feign otherwise.

    [ Parent ]

    No Not Goading (none / 0) (#179)
    by squeaky on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:20:43 PM EST
    IMO the first question is more about spinning than about sexism.

     

    [ Parent ]

    My apologies then (none / 0) (#185)
    by kiosan on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:31:49 PM EST
    I'm not yet familiar with all of the personalities here.  Sorry if I misconstrued.

    As to spinning, Dean's comments may well have contained a spin component.  I'll refrain from speculating on his intentions, however, so long as his actual comments remain neutral.

    Pelosi's have not been that (neutral).  She has clearly espoused the Obama line while refusing to declare the obvious - that she supports Obama.  If she's going to support him, which is absolutely her prerogative, I'd prefer she didn't cloak it in some faux mantle of impartiality.  Particularly when said mantle is threadbare and badly in need of mending.

    [ Parent ]

    I agree (none / 0) (#186)
    by squeaky on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:38:44 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Let's weigh her ambtion vs divisiveness to run (none / 0) (#201)
    by Ellie on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:05:17 AM EST
    ... and see which of those rotten, MONSTROUS qualities is worse and exceeds the other.

    Clearly this ongoing debate is what's delayed the bigots who have been late to the misogynist glee club.

    How in a bunch the tighties get, gnashing and clenching about that darn woman going after an office without permission (an office for which she believes herself capable and qualified -- and can back up with serious cred.)

    I've known how much social fossils hate it when the wrong people bring to life the rights we've been "given" on paper, and should apparently be held demurely on our laps like the Party favors they're meant to be.

    But jeez we were invited. Why do the tighties lose it when we come out from behind the volunteers' positions and actually dance?

    [ Parent ]

    Slightly off topic (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by nell on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:31:01 PM EST
    ...but rumor has it that Nancy P. is on Good Morning America encouraging Clinton to get out in not so many words citing the need for unity and her lack of funding...

    I Love How Eager Dem Leaders Are (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by BDB on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:34:27 PM EST
    to throw their credibility out the window.  Because it's not like there may be issues out there, say two large states with delegations at risk, that might need facilitating by independent leaders.  Of course, first we'd have to find some leaders in the Democratic party...

    [ Parent ]
    But don't you see... (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by sumac on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:29:03 PM EST
    if Hillary would just drop out then Pelosi and Co. don't have to worry about disenfranchisement and delegations at risk. We all get a pony. It's a win-win...until we lose in Novemeber.

    [ Parent ]
    Bingo (none / 0) (#154)
    by pluege on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 09:06:52 PM EST
    Where the hell are we going to find "leaders" in the Democratic Party? The current ones all flunk.

    [ Parent ]
    A lottery perhaps? (none / 0) (#164)
    by Arcadianwind on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 09:42:00 PM EST
    then put them thru a battery of psych tests, to weed out crooks, slackers, power trippers, enablers, and, well I better stop there.

    [ Parent ]
    tomorrow AM (none / 0) (#5)
    by nycstray on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:32:36 PM EST
    saw the promo for it this afternoon. I won't be up that early, I'll catch it later online  ;)

    [ Parent ]
    If it is true (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by nell on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:34:56 PM EST
    Nancy P will hit a new low with me...not that she cares what I or any other Clinton supporter thinks.

    And to think I teared up when she was sworn in. What a huge disappointment she has turned out to be...

    [ Parent ]

    It's true (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by americanincanada on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:37:47 PM EST
    ABC news just showed a preview. She was saying Hillary needed to get out basically because she can't pay her medical bills and such.

    I thought the campaign said they did pay those bills?

    Pelosi is a stain on the democratic brand...

    [ Parent ]

    Medical Bills? (none / 0) (#16)
    by nell on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:38:31 PM EST
    They had unpaid medical bills? What?

    [ Parent ]
    More interesting than (5.00 / 5) (#21)
    by americanincanada on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:41:52 PM EST
    the fact that their payments were late, all have been paid off and it will be reflected on March's filing, is the amount they pay for medical insurance and the amount of people the campaign's insurance covers.

    They cover all workers, their spouses or partners and children, across the board with no exceptions.

    [ Parent ]

    She's paying her staff's medical insurance?! (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by nycstray on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:43:18 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Of course... (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by americanincanada on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:45:22 PM EST
    she is their employeer. They use Aetna Healthcare and CareFirst BlueCross BlueShield.

    The campaign provides health insurance to all its employees, their spouses, partners and children -- and that wasn't interrupted by any lag in payments to insurance providers, said Jay Carson, a Clinton campaign spokesman.

    [ Parent ]

    But are they contributing? (none / 0) (#28)
    by nycstray on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:52:06 PM EST
    the employees that is, like the normal employee health plans?

    [ Parent ]
    Next media frenzy (none / 0) (#33)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:57:35 PM EST
    Huff Post, Politico etc.  :  Man, the snide remarks about her being a deadbeat, that is why she wants healthcare.   Now they don't want her to quit, they are saying she cannot manage so that proves it.  UGH.  

    [ Parent ]
    What is up with Pelosi? (none / 0) (#30)
    by ajain on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:54:12 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Yeah so prefers that Hillary quit and her (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Maria Garcia on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:59:01 PM EST
    ..campaign workers have no insurance? Sounds about typical for Pelosi.

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe Pelosi could pass a law (5.00 / 8) (#67)
    by badger on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:19:40 PM EST
    or something so everybody has access to health care.

    [ Parent ]
    I did too (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by nycstray on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:39:08 PM EST
    and yes, she is a huge disappointment.

    Thankfully, when I move back to CA, it won't be to her district again.

    [ Parent ]

    Huge (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by sas on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:44:38 PM EST
    disappointmentas has been Donna Brazile.

    They are "frosting my cookies" lately!


    [ Parent ]

    I have been lurking at Taylor Marsh's site...... (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Maria Garcia on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:00:40 PM EST
    ....just to read the hilarious responses that Donna Brazille has been sending to angry Hillary supporters that are emailing her. If those responses are real, Donna is losing it.

    [ Parent ]
    Anyone would lose it (none / 0) (#53)
    by bumblebums on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:09:26 PM EST
    in a hail of deranged emails from Taylor Marsh harpies.

    [ Parent ]
    I know but.... (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Maria Garcia on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:12:56 PM EST
    ...I'm amazed that she's actually answering them. It's kind of like they are using their powers for good, not evil, if they are pestering Donna.

    [ Parent ]
    I find it weird (5.00 / 0) (#68)
    by lilburro on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:20:14 PM EST
    that Donna Brazile bothers to answer the emails anyway...doesn't she have better things to do?  Like get her facts straight before she goes on TV?

    [ Parent ]
    She comes across as (none / 0) (#113)
    by nemo52 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:03:40 PM EST
    particularly thin-skinned and boy-oh-boy (or should it be girl-oh-girl?) as not much of a politician!

    [ Parent ]
    This (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by nell on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:20:19 PM EST
    has been going on for awhile. Many Hillary supporters (myself not included, I don't have the time or the energy to get into it with Donna) have emailed her and she always seems to write back...generally very rude...in one posted email she said she was tired of defending the Clintons. Ha.

    [ Parent ]
    Nice misogyny there (none / 0) (#75)
    by badger on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:24:58 PM EST
    Harpy | Har"py |
     (haumr"py^), n.; pl. Harpies (-pi^z). F.
       harpie, L. harpyia, Gr. "a`rpyia, from the root of "arpa`zein to snatch, to seize. Cf. Rapacious.

        1. (Gr. Myth.) A fabulous winged monster, ravenous and filthy, having the face of a woman and the body of a vulture, with long claws, and the face pale with hunger.

    [ Parent ]

    She seems to be... (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by DudeE on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:57:06 PM EST
    ...short on principle and all about 'unity' - you know, let's not do up any articles of impeachment because someone might get upset...

    [ Parent ]
    Ditto -- I used a video of her presiding (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Cream City on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:12:25 PM EST
    at the SoTU in a history class to show students how history was happening in their lifetimes.  I fear that she is the disappointment of my lifetime -- but may my students see better leaders than ours today.

    [ Parent ]
    What really ticks me off (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by standingup on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:46:15 PM EST
    is that the Democrats can't get the time of day with the media when they need it to counter the Republicans over an important bill or a confirmation.  But when it comes to trashing another Democrat, they can't give enough of them enough time.  And I am not dumb enough to lay all the blame on the media, the Democrats are just as complicit in accepting the opportunities too.  

    [ Parent ]
    I actually attended the SOTU last year (5.00 / 0) (#108)
    by shoephone on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:02:49 PM EST
    just so I could witness the first woman speaker to preside over the event. I have to say, it was worth it. When she took the podium and the gavel the whole place broke into wild applause, Repubs too. It was a pretty powerful thing to behold.

    But her latest actions vis-a-vis the campaign have really soured me on her.

    Why can't the electeds just keep out of it until all the votes are cast?

    [ Parent ]

    Back to Work, Nancy (5.00 / 4) (#81)
    by Athena on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:29:09 PM EST
    Doesn't she have a war to end?

    [ Parent ]
    And Obama supporters everywhere... (5.00 / 6) (#3)
    by dianem on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:31:34 PM EST
    ...are throwing their backs out as they contort themselves into the new "Clinton should stay in" position.

    I guess we are supposed to magically (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by nycstray on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:35:45 PM EST
    forget all the drumbeating for her to step out, eh?

    Not gonna happen.

    [ Parent ]

    We have always been at war with Eastasia. . . (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by andgarden on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:37:16 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    DiaNem (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Gabriele Droz on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:39:48 PM EST
    I don't post here too much (read a lot though), but your comments always crack me up.  Thanks for the laughs.

    [ Parent ]
    Ditto -- and same way I feel at seeing (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Cream City on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:07:35 PM EST
    the good Gabriele Droz here, btw.  But we need Kathy back to get us really rolling through paragraphs full.  DianeM is more droll, and I enjoy it, too.:-)

    [ Parent ]
    Obama wants her to stay in the race (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by badger on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:10:14 PM EST
    Obama has always wanted her to stay in the race.
    </Ministry of Truth>

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (none / 0) (#115)
    by nemo52 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:07:29 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I'd Say It's Because She's a Woman (5.00 / 6) (#4)
    by BDB on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:32:27 PM EST
    and so unlike a lot of Obama supporters cough*DoddLeahyKosMarshallOlbermann*cough she sees the dynamics at work in the calls for Clinton to drop out.  

    I'd say that, except that wouldn't explain Donna Brazile.  Of course, Donna Brazile is a democratic leader who has tried to hold the party together by threatening to quit the party, so I'm not sure anything explains Ms. Brazile.

    Well (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by nell on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:33:49 PM EST
    I resented Klobuchar's statement that Obama will take the "vinegar" out of politics...

    I would say as of late he has added a WHOLE lot of vinegar. She should just listen to his campaign's recent conference call calling Clinton a liar and saying she has a character gap to hear some Vinegar...so she can play nice while taking her digs at Clinton, but I will not be fooled.

    Politics Without Vinegar = Capitulation (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by BDB on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:35:48 PM EST
    At least that's what it's meant for the past eight years.  

    [ Parent ]
    Don't know (5.00 / 5) (#20)
    by blogtopus on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:40:32 PM EST
    he seems to be replacing all that vinegar with p*ss.

    [ Parent ]
    She knows that the Unity Shtick plays (none / 0) (#9)
    by andgarden on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:34:29 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Yeh, it's "Minnesota nice" to the max (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Cream City on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:08:53 PM EST
    so it works with Klobuchar's constituency, yah, youbetcha.  It just won't work with Republicans.

    [ Parent ]
    Is that what she has been doing? (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by BarnBabe on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:11:30 PM EST
    Unifying the country? Is that why we are still in Iraq and she would not go for impeachment? I too am disappointed in Nancy. She started out with promise and then fizzled out. And Leahy, he comes out strong all the time and then whimpers back to his corner. All I can say is that someone in DC must have pictures because my party's elders and people in control have gone bonkers. So many of us were for Dean, they gave us Kerry. So many of us were for Edwards, they gave us Obama. They were DC outsiders too but then the DC insiders choose Obama and that made it right. Heh. Yeah, outsider, right. We only think we have a say in the decision.  

    [ Parent ]
    Leahy (5.00 / 0) (#106)
    by RalphB on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:01:45 PM EST
    should go Cheney himself.  Kerry can go with him.  these clowns are absolute cowards who can't stand up to a republican minority and a president with a 28% approval rating.  jeez they're a bunch of losers.


    [ Parent ]
    Pretty funny (none / 0) (#148)
    by oldpro on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:53:55 PM EST
    that they think they can badger Hillary Clinton into becoming a quitter!

    As the kids say, "Yeah, right!  Like THAT'S gonna happen!"

    [ Parent ]

    Hillary should DEFINITELY stay in (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by maritza on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:42:28 PM EST
    If she goes on a roll she could win the whole thing.  

    If Hillary doesn't than she just makes Obama a better general election candidate for he is getting battle tested.

    Good sense? (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by Chimster on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:46:14 PM EST
    "At least someone has some good sense in the Obama camp." I'd agree that the Obama campaign is now using good sense by claiming she should stay in the race. But common sense tells us that the Obama Campaign doesn't want her to stay in it (big primaries coming up look good for HRC).

    So, the new Obama campaign stance comes across as insincere and politically motivated, which may not be a bad thing, but when you preach a new type of politics, this one's easy see to see through.

    Especially (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by nell on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:58:27 PM EST
    Since Clinton is calling them out on it:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080331/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_primaries

        "My take on it is a lot of Senator Obama's supporters want to end this race because they don't want people to keep voting," she told CBS affiliate KTVQ in Billings, Mont. "That's just the opposite of what I believe. We want people to vote. I want the people of Montana to vote, don't you?"

    [ Parent ]

    Avoiding the Voters (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Athena on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:01:06 PM EST
    Yes, Hillary should remind everyone in the upcoming primaries that Obama would prefer that they not vote at all.

    [ Parent ]
    Hillary's campaign (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Chimster on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:08:42 PM EST
    should acquire video/audio snippets of every Obama supporter, endorser, media talking head, and whoever else said Hillary should drop out now and make it into a montage video. This way we have a good resource of the people who don't want all the votes counted.

    [ Parent ]
    Media Bias (none / 0) (#82)
    by Athena on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:31:04 PM EST
    FWIW, Lou Dobbs did about 20 minutes tonight on the anti-Clinton bias in the media.

    [ Parent ]
    This is a switch (none / 0) (#147)
    by nycstray on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:49:46 PM EST
    "Clinton almost certainly will end the primary season narrowly trailing Obama in the popular vote and among pledged delegates unless the nullified primaries in Florida and Michigan are counted -- an unlikely scenario at best."

    what about everyone who is saying he has an "insurmountable" lead and other types of descriptions? heh, maybe the dialougue is changing a bit?

    [ Parent ]

    think he'd stall the process and SUE ?! (none / 0) (#155)
    by thereyougo on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 09:08:33 PM EST
    its possible.He has the gall.

    [ Parent ]
    It should never have been (none / 0) (#166)
    by cal1942 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 09:50:10 PM EST
    See realpolitics.com. A post by Jay Cost demonstrates that when Michigan and Florida are counted and given projections of upcoming primaries Clinton wins the popular vote.

    His inclusion of Michigan gives Obama the maximum benefit of the doubt vis a vis the Uncommitted vote and Clinton still comes out the popular vote winner.

    It would be intersting to break out of that the Democrats only vote (exit polls would be necessary in open and caucus states).  I'm sure that Clinton would win that one possibly even without Florida and Michigan.


    [ Parent ]

    On some blogs (none / 0) (#180)
    by americanincanada on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 10:25:13 PM EST
    My DD for example...Clinton is actually ahead in delegate count as well when Florida and Michigan are included. I believe she is ahead in dlegate count by one delegate.

    [ Parent ]
    I agree. (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by ajain on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:58:26 PM EST
    While I think his new strategy is to embrace every PA cliche, which is such a cliched thing to do, I think shutting up dropping out is good.

    Also, I think his common man approach might be working. I don`t know.
    But if he keeps it close in PA or upsets her there, I think he will have done all he needs to do to get the nomination.

    bowls like a girl... (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by bjorn on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:11:28 PM EST
    Morning Joe doesn't think the comman man thing is working because Obama "bowls like a little girl."  I have to admit I thought the same thing when I saw the tape of him bowling. I laughed out loud because he was so much like a ballerina or something.  If he wins, he has my vote, but I think Joe is right, stay away from it if you can't make it look real.

    [ Parent ]
    Where is the tape of Obama bowling? (none / 0) (#122)
    by shoephone on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:10:46 PM EST
    As a longtime bowler, I really want to see that!

    [ Parent ]
    youtube (none / 0) (#131)
    by bjorn on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:20:46 PM EST
    just put in "Barack Bowling"

    [ Parent ]
    Just watched.. (none / 0) (#138)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:29:56 PM EST
    Why oh why does he remind me of Bush?  

    [ Parent ]
    Uhhh (none / 0) (#142)
    by squeaky on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:37:57 PM EST
    Too much Kool Aid?  It has been known to cause hallucinations.

    [ Parent ]
    Nope... (none / 0) (#144)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:42:52 PM EST
    wrong again

    [ Parent ]
    Thank you (none / 0) (#139)
    by shoephone on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:31:07 PM EST
    I just watched it. And it was hilarious!

    [ Parent ]
    How will Obama straddle (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by lilburro on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:21:54 PM EST
    the Steelers Eagles dilemma?

    [ Parent ]
    Two options (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by Lou Grinzo on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:32:22 PM EST
    1. He'll show up in a Steagles throwback jersey.  (The Steagles were a merged team that played during WW II due to a lack of players.)

    2. He'll dodge them both and support the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Pioneers of the AFL2 (indoor league).


    [ Parent ]
    Suddenly figure out it's (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by nycstray on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 09:01:19 PM EST
    baseball season?

    [ Parent ]
    Obama attracts big crowds (none / 0) (#46)
    by Josey on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:03:26 PM EST
    but can he win against McCain?
    I just don't think he can and "rolling the dice" seems an appropriate warning.


    [ Parent ]
    Oh I am sure he will not win the GE. (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by ajain on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:05:24 PM EST
    But thats hardly the point. Getting the nomination seemingly has little to do with that. Obama supporters just want to chastise Clinton and shame her into leaving the race.

    [ Parent ]
    Where are you getting that from? (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by independent voter on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:56:04 PM EST
    Believe me, you are speaking to the wrong Obama supporters. I will give you a little insight, we want him to win the GE. I could care less about chastising or shaming Clinton. For a long time, I supported her.

    [ Parent ]
    Not all Obama supporters (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by ajain on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:03:40 PM EST
    I'm talking about Leahy, Dodd, Richardson and Pelosi.

    They are trying to punch Clinton in the face when she is down.

    [ Parent ]

    Regardless (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by nemo52 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:10:00 PM EST
    I liked both -- well, all of the top three -- candidates at first, but now I really think Obama is a liability in the GE.

    [ Parent ]
    I know you want Obama to win the general (none / 0) (#126)
    by Josey on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:13:30 PM EST
    but he's never convinced me he can.
    How do you present Obama's "winning strategy" against McCain to potential voters?

    [ Parent ]
    In general (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by themomcat on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:59:01 PM EST
    polls have been done that support Sen. Clinton's remaining in the race to the convention. I know this is a OT but I've been watching Lou Dobbs, which I rarely do and he had a poll (I know, unscientific) that asked if there was a media bias against Clinton and for Obama. The results as of 1955 hrs: Yes 73%, No 27%. I guess that the general public has their own idea about the campaigns and, obviously, little voice in the mainstream corporate media.

    But I'm sure (5.00 / 4) (#39)
    by suisser on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 06:59:17 PM EST
    I heard Klobuchar say that Clinton was "welcome" to stay in the race during an interview on NPR this evening.  Really dislike that "welcome to stay" bit.

    That's exactly what you heard - (5.00 / 6) (#64)
    by Anne on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:14:38 PM EST
    I heard it played on XM Radio - POTUS 08 - this afternoon, and she definitely said "welcome to stay," and it bothered me to hear her say it - as if this is Obama's party and Clinton is just some party-crasher.

    The arrogance that emanates from the Obama campaign and its surrogates has "transformed" me from someone who once said I would happily vote for whichever of the Democrats got the nomination, to someone who may have to be have help touching the screen if Obama's name is the one on the ballot.

    [ Parent ]

    That's how Obma said it too, right? (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by nycstray on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:58:22 PM EST
    She was welcome to stay as long as she wants and as long as her supporters wanted to support her or something like that. I found it to be condescending, but that's nothing new from him.

    [ Parent ]
    "Welcome"??? (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by Lou Grinzo on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:53:04 PM EST
    Yikes!  If I talked to my wife like that, I'd be sleeping on the front lawn.  (And this time of year in Rochester, that's really chilly.)


    [ Parent ]
    BTD or Jeralyn, can you post about this? (none / 0) (#84)
    by cymro on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:33:26 PM EST
    To say that Clinton is "welcome to stay" is the height of condescension.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah (none / 0) (#114)
    by bumblebums on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:04:32 PM EST
    'the sky will open .. celestial choirs will be singing ... magic wand ... just words ... fairytale'

    [ Parent ]
    How Big of Her (none / 0) (#167)
    by cal1942 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 09:54:23 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Does anyone else feel that Hillary (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by ajain on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:01:13 PM EST
    Does anyone else feel that Hillary is going to launch a full-frontal attack on Obama after a week or so of playing the victim.
    I think it might be a good thing, even if she does lose, to see how he copes with it. I have a feeling that she is going to find a way to really decapitate  him and I think if she can, she should.

    Just to be fair, (none / 0) (#96)
    by lilburro on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 07:51:09 PM EST
    this is v. funny.

    [ Parent ]
    Castration fantasies? (none / 0) (#118)
    by ajain on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:08:38 PM EST
    I think that is hilarious.
    No I just think there should be an all out attack. He can do the same, whoever comes out victorious will be stronger. Its just an opinion.

    Also I think it would be great if Clinton came out and said that there should be 3 measures for victory: Delegate count, popular vote and electoral vote. Whoever wins 2 out of the 3 should be the winner.
    Catch: Pop. vote has to count FL and MI. Otherwise go to the convention and duke it out.

    [ Parent ]

    Well, there is always (none / 0) (#124)
    by nemo52 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:11:51 PM EST
    the notorious "Clinton Nutcracker"

    [ Parent ]
    Hillary attacks Obama hourly (none / 0) (#137)
    by Josey on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 08:27:01 PM EST