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Why Edwards Didn't Endorse Obama, Superdelegates and More

Via John Heileman at New York Magazine:

According to a Democratic strategist unaligned with any campaign but with knowledge of the situation gleaned from all three camps, the answer is simple: Obama blew it. Speaking to Edwards on the day he exited the race, Obama came across as glib and aloof. His response to Edwards’s imprecations that he make poverty a central part of his agenda was shallow, perfunctory, pat.

Clinton, by contrast, engaged Edwards in a lengthy policy discussion. Her affect was solicitous and respectful. When Clinton met Edwards face-to-face in North Carolina ten days later, her approach continued to impress; she even made headway with Elizabeth. Whereas in his Edwards sit-down, Obama dug himself in deeper, getting into a fight with Elizabeth about health care, insisting that his plan is universal (a position she considers a crock), high-handedly criticizing Clinton’s plan (and by extension Edwards’s) for its insurance mandate.

The take-away: [more...]

The implications of this story are several and not insignificant. Most obviously, it suggests that the front-runner’s diplomatic skills could use some refinement. It also raises the issue, which has cropped up in a different form after New Hampshire, Super-Duper Tuesday, and the Ohio and Texas primaries, of Obama’s capacity to close the deal.

On the Obama campaign's desertion of the high road:

For all its rhetoric about practicing a new, more virtuous brand of politics, the Obama campaign has been going after Clinton hammer and tongs. Rarely a day passes without his people dubbing her a liar and a fraud....They have accused Bill Clinton of McCarthyism and invoked the infamous blue dress on which he left his, er, DNA—the latter coming on a blog post arguing that he actually makes McCarthy look benign. Indeed, it sometimes seems as if the Obamans are actively trying to cede the moral high ground.

The article is not a Clinton puff-piece. Rather, it's about who, if anyone in the Democratic party, could end the race.

Despite the long history of mutual animus between Al Gore and Hillary, Gore has resisted the temptation to throw his weight behind Obama; and because of that history, even if he did, it would likely have little effect on her determination to carry on, as Gore is well aware. Edwards, who I’m told at one juncture discussed with Gore the possibility of a joint endorsement, now appears to prefer staying mum for the time being, or, if anything, backing Clinton. And Jimmy Carter has stated unequivocally his intention to refrain from choosing sides.

As for why those closest to Hillary aren't calling for her to withdraw from the race:

For the moment, none of these people, as far as I know, is advising Hillary to fold. They are not idiots and they are not blind—they can read the writing on the wall and do the math as well. But they also believe that, though Clinton’s path to the nomination has narrowed to a cliff walk, it hasn’t been barricaded. If she beats Obama in Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Indiana, it may widen again, should the superdelegates start questioning his durability and the potency of his electoral coalition. Or Obama’s candidacy could suddenly blow up in a more spectacular fashion—over further revelations about Wright or some other political IED planted on the roadside ahead.

Where the article falls short is in its speculation at the end that Hillary will exit in time for a unity pony because she believes Obama will lose in November and she can then win in 2012.

If HRC believes that Obama will lose in November, there can be no doubt that she’s already calculating, in the back of her head, the best way to position herself for 2012. A scorched-earth campaign against Obama is plainly not the way to do that. A classy exit, a show of unity, an act that apparently places party before self: That’s the ticket.

I don't think Hillary is thinking about 2012. I suspect she finds even the idea of another contested primary campaign exhausting right now. She's in this to win. She's counting on the superdelegates, and a big win in PA. Indiana would be nice, and while I don't think she'll carry North Carolina, she will get West Virginia, and in my view, Puerto Rico.

By the numbers so far (pdf):

...Going into the April 22 Pennsylvania primary, approximately 26.5 million votes have been cast in Democratic Party primaries and caucuses (excluding Florida and Michigan). Obama has received approximately 13.6 million votes, or 51.3%, and Clinton has received approximately 12.9 million votes, or 48.7%. If Florida’s vote is included, then Obama’s popular vote total is just under 14.2 million, or 50.7%, and Clinton’s is just under 13.8 million, or 49.3%. If both Florida’s and Michigan’s votes are included, then Obama’s popular vote total is just under 14.2 million, or 50.2%, and Clinton’s is 14.1 million, or 49.8%, out of the total number of votes cast thus far of 28.9 million.

According to the Associated Press, Clinton currently has the support of 246 superdelegates, or 53.6%, to Obama’s 213, or 46.4%. Obama, however, has 1,406 pledged elected delegates, or 53%, to Clinton’s 1,249, or 47%. Combining the two results in Obama having the support of 1,619 delegates, or 52%, to Clinton’s 1,495, or 48%.

The important part is we're not done voting yet:

An estimated 12 million individuals are eligible to vote in the 10 remaining Democratic primaries or caucuses (Pennsylvania, Guam, Indiana, North Carolina, West Virginia, Kentucky, Oregon, Puerto Rico, Montana, South Dakota.) Together, these states and territories will have 566 elected pledged delegates and 124 superdelegates.

The superdelegates will decide this race. They won't listen to Pelosi or Reid. Here's where they stand so far:

Among subcategories of superdelegates:

  • Obama has the support of 12 Governors to Clinton’s 10, with 9 uncommitted.
  • Obama has the support of 15 Senators to Clinton’s 13, with 20 uncommitted.
  • Clinton has the support of 73 House of Representatives members to Obama’s 71, with 78 uncommitted.
  • Clinton has the support of 140 members of the Democratic National Committee to Obama’s 107, with 151 uncommitted.
  • Clinton has the support of 10 distinguished party leaders to Obama’s 4, with 5 uncommitted.
  • Obama has the support of 2 add‐ons to none for Clinton, with 74 uncommitted.

Update: Comments now closed.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Bad move... (5.00 / 5) (#2)
    by Teresa on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 07:42:36 PM EST
    I wouldn't want to be on Elizabeth's bad side. Health care and poverty - I can see why he hasn't endorsed Obama if this is true.

    Thanks for the link and excerpts--- (5.00 / 7) (#3)
    by MarkL on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 07:44:17 PM EST
    great stuff!!
    I got a laugh out of reading how Obama treated Edwards: no surprise there.
    Neo may have been the One, but at least he had some humility.


    Probably Edwards kicked O's butt... (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 07:47:42 PM EST
    ...in the pick up basketball game too. LOL.

    [ Parent ]
    Jay (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by 1jpb on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:15:41 PM EST
    That's what he told Jey Leno, but he was half joking I think.

    [ Parent ]
    You don't believe that Edwards could beat... (none / 0) (#41)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:23:29 PM EST
    ...Obama in a pick up game? Why not?

    [ Parent ]
    Don't know (none / 0) (#56)
    by 1jpb on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:42:31 PM EST
    if he can or not.

    But, BO has some kind of contest where the prize is for high school kids to play 3 on 3 with him.  So he better be ok, or it'll look bad to be destroyed by kids on the court.

    [ Parent ]

    LOL, my 50 year old husband can beat kids... (none / 0) (#63)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:46:43 PM EST
    ..cause he's 6'4 and all he has to do is stand under the basket. And you better believe he love doing it; just ask the nephews.  But Edwards has a basketball court on his property so I think he's probably pretty good and I don't he would have asked Obama to play if he didn't think he could beat him.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama played on a team (none / 0) (#80)
    by MKS on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:14:26 PM EST
    in high school that was very good, and plays regularly, and played regularly in pick-up games in the south side of Chicago to gain street cred....

    [ Parent ]
    I'll vouch for that. (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:23:14 PM EST
    He played for Punahou School (albeit as a reserve), which won '79 Hawaii state championship. I played on that year's state runner-up, Moanalua High School. It wasn't close; we lost, 60-38.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama led his college (none / 0) (#84)
    by MKS on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:17:00 PM EST
    team in scoring in 1979.

    [ Parent ]
    No, he didn't. (none / 0) (#89)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:24:06 PM EST
    See my post above.

    [ Parent ]
    Check this out (none / 0) (#96)
    by MKS on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:31:42 PM EST
    Here is a blurb comparing him to George Gervin....Finger rolls anyone?

    Few outside of Los Angeles (and few from Los Angeles) are familiar with tiny Div III Occidental College, though it produced some memorable NFL players and coaches such as retired coach Jim Mora ("Playoffs?!) and qb/ex-Senator Jack Kemp, not to mention succesful Hollywood types. The school also may have produced a future US President: Barack Obama attended the school from 1978-1980 and was the school's leading scorer in basketball in 1979. Now, you did NOT know that. Obama was considered a "George Gervin type" by one ex-coach I spoke to, but I wonder why it gets no mention.

    Further research is needed.  The years may be off.

    How good was Obama at Punahou?

    [ Parent ]

    TSN--Gold standard (none / 0) (#105)
    by MKS on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:40:07 PM EST
    Here is what TSN says:

    The eighth or ninth man on Punahou High School's 1979 state championship team in Hawaii, Obama started for Occidental College in the early '80s, played those Harvard pickup games and on the day of his swearing-in as a U.S. Senator said he felt like a first-round NBA draft choice finally getting onto a court to play.


    [ Parent ]
    I read a detailed article (none / 0) (#129)
    by Trickster on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:24:51 PM EST
    about his game from a guy who used to play with him regularly in pick-up games I think when they were both in law school, but in any case when BO was a young adult.  He said Obama is tall, long arms, good hops, and plays with a lot of energy and confidence so he was very effective around the basket, but he was short on ball-handling and shooting skills.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, Thank you Jeralyn (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by suisser on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:03:43 PM EST
    for laying it all out there so clearly.


    [ Parent ]
    Blah. (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by lansing quaker on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 07:53:27 PM EST
    Fighting with Elizabeth Edwards after stating Michelle would be "too busy raising the kids" in the White House should he be elected.

    Oh, those silly women!

    But kudos on the diary highlighting the closeness of the race, Jeralyn.

    I'd still love for my MI-Primary to count, but c'est la vie.  It's not in the cards.  But it will matter come November.

    I don't call what (5.00 / 10) (#13)
    by rooge04 on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 07:57:23 PM EST
    Obama lacks diplomatic skills, but rather he has entirely too much arrogance.  And he exudes it to everyone.

    Bingo (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by Lou Grinzo on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:42:39 PM EST
    I know this sounds like I'm much older than Obama, even though I'm really his senior by only a few years, but he has always come across to me like a teenager who never learned any unpleasant lessons from personal failure.  (And yes, that's a totally different category from personal tragedies, in case someone wants to make that particular point.)

    We've seen this pattern over and over in this campaign, which I've commented on here before, of Obama being in a position where he can deliver the "obvious" response in a debate or in private that will help himself and his cause, yet he somehow finds a way to avoid it.  He's fantastic with a canned speech, but get him off script and things get wobbly in a hurry.

    My wife refers to this trait in people as "knowing when to say the right thing", and Obama seems not to have that particular talent.

    If he winds up being the Democratic nominee, I sure as heck hopes he develops that skill in a hurry.  He'll need it.
    What is The Cost of Energy?
    [ Parent ]

    No we're not. (5.00 / 6) (#14)
    by rooge04 on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 07:58:25 PM EST
    In the name of unity many Obama supporters have told Clinton and her supporters to shut up and lose already.  That is not unity. That is divisiveness.

    I'm an Obama supporter but all I know of the (none / 0) (#167)
    by DemPrezin2008 on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:09:20 PM EST
    blog world is what I've seen here and on CNN comments.  And I would say if the people in other blogs are close if not worse then people are for Clinton here then yes.  We are in trouble in November.

    [ Parent ]
    be warned (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by white n az on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:18:55 PM EST
    TalkLeft is a VERY TAME blog. It is moderated, censored, comments deleted blog.

    Elsewhere, you takes your chances because a site like DailyKos (washing my mouth out after I click send...and hands too), there is no attempt to moderate and the 'meta' (comments) tends to be extremely coarse and harsh and would make this blog seem like the Librium connection.

    [ Parent ]

    Good post Jeralyn (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by Coldblue on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 07:59:20 PM EST
    and good analysis of the linked article as well.

    Giving up (5.00 / 6) (#17)
    by blogtopus on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:00:37 PM EST
    I don't think I would want a candidate who would give up on a race unless there was no chance. This isn't Bush in Iraq, folks; Hillary still has a plausible chance of winning; even the numbers are fairly close still.

    I also wouldn't want a candidate naive enough to think their opponent would just give up willingly in the face of such odds. That's a recipe for disaster, and is a window into a lazy, entitled mentality*.

    *troll prophylactic: I'm NOT playing into the stupid 'lazy black person' stereotype; Obama is clearly not the fighter that Hillary is, and he seems to expect people to cede their fights in the light of his HOPE Pony. Neither of these qualities has anything to do with his race (or gender, for that matter).

    you are right. (1.00 / 3) (#98)
    by cy street on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:32:04 PM EST
    obama is not fit to be commander in chief.  he is un-american.  he is a diluted senator from a silly state.  he is like jesse jackson with a better stylist.  he gives good speech, but words are...just words.

    obama needs to stop playing the race card.  what does he know about poor people?

    he hates the military, right?

    is it three am?  holy guacamole, we are screwed.

    he cheated in iowa, caucuses are undemocratic in the twenty first century.

    and can you believe he has the nerve to spend so much money?  

    laughable.

    the house of clinton is burning their last bridge to the back door.

    [ Parent ]

    I don't know the term "black-bag" (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by MarkL on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:00:43 PM EST
    strategy, but what the article said was that they won't stick around after June, if Clinton is behind. There's no implication that Clinton has any dastardly plans to make Obama unelectable.

    Right. (3.00 / 1) (#28)
    by lilburro on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:08:47 PM EST
    You know, one of the benefits of reading is understanding.

    Stop being a troll.

    [ Parent ]

    Here is the relevant paragraph: (5.00 / 8) (#34)
    by MarkL on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:13:58 PM EST

    Some senior members of Clinton's campaign have no intention of sticking around if Obama is substantially ahead come June; as much as they're devoted to their boss, they want nothing to do with a black-bag operation designed to destroy her rival, no matter what the cost. But these same people are also deeply convinced--beyond spin, beyond talking points, to their core--that Obama would be doomed against McCain. And Clinton believes this, too, which is one important reason why she persists despite odds that grow longer each passing day.

    Very thin gruel for a supposition that Clinton will attempt to destroy Obama.
    It would be perfectly natural for campaign members to leave after the primaries, if it appeared Clinton had lost by then.

    Not sure what you're trying to get at, but here is actual text. People can judge for themselves, here, without your tips for reading comprehension.

    Hasta la vista, baby!

    [ Parent ]

    Hey MarkL (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by lilburro on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:18:49 PM EST
    I know you're capped...but my comment was directed at 1jane for her unsupported claim against Clinton.  I read the article and came to the same conclusion as you did.

    I guess I will have to be more careful with my snippy comments - I've had problems like this before.  Sorry :(

    [ Parent ]

    Actually you get my last one! (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by MarkL on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:20:45 PM EST
    I looked at your comment history, because I didn't think what you said to ME was in character.
    No harm done.
    Have a good night.

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks :) (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by lilburro on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:31:23 PM EST
    Have a good night too!

    [ Parent ]
    Liburro, don't worry. Your intent was clear ... (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by cymro on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:26:22 PM EST
    ... to me, at least. So I imagine that others reading the thread could see what you were referring to.

    [ Parent ]
    Hubris (5.00 / 13) (#19)
    by Prabhata on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:02:11 PM EST
    What Obama appears to have displayed with Edwards is his hubris that I perceived a few times with his comments, such as "I am confident I will get her votes if I'm the nominee. It's not clear she would get the votes I got if she were the nominee."; and "You're likable enough" to HRC in a debate.  There was a time I could have supported Obama, but that time is now long gone.  I've now decided to vote for HRC in November no matter what.  If I have to write her name, so be it.  I know that write-in-candidates votes are not counted, but that will not deter me from voting for the best candidate.

    Hubris means more than arrogance... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by MarkL on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:06:11 PM EST
    what exactly is Obama's tragic flaw? He's not daring the gods, is he? Nah!!

    [ Parent ]
    Si, se puede! (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by lansing quaker on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:09:50 PM EST
    Obama took his name off of my primary ballot!  He was respecting the rules!

    And now he doesn't want a re-vote in my state unless it's a caucus!

    It's a nice 7 months until November, but I won't forget.  He takes his name off my ballot and says it won't count now?

    Then I'll just take his name off my ballot come November.  Michigan swings?

    [ Parent ]

    In fairness (4.00 / 1) (#46)
    by 1jpb on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:30:46 PM EST
    he wasn't the only one who said your vote wouldn't count.  

    [ Parent ]
    full quote (3.00 / 1) (#44)
    by 1jpb on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:27:34 PM EST
    The full comment is less obnoxious.

    "You're likable enough, no doubt about it."

    Still not a good choice of words.

    We don't really know how they feel about each other.  In public they both make an effort to seem friendly.  But, I can never forget that I read the story of them "talking" to each other on the tarmac near their private planes.  Apparently there was a lot of animated gesturing, and staff reports said there was animosity, although none of the actual conversation ever leaked.

    Who knows what they really think about each other?  Why does the public want them to pretend they're some kind of pals?  I don't like that phony stuff.

    [ Parent ]

    I saw him say it in real time (5.00 / 5) (#82)
    by shoephone on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:16:06 PM EST
    during the debate. His delivery was rude. People haven't forgotten it

    [ Parent ]
    And after one of the debates, (5.00 / 3) (#114)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:55:08 PM EST
    on the Senate floor, she went to shake his hand and he turned his back on her and ignored her. The senators standing with him looked uncomfortable. I thought that was just about the rudest thing I had ever seen.

    [ Parent ]
    Precisely (5.00 / 3) (#148)
    by Lou Grinzo on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:47:45 PM EST
    That's exactly the point: You can't just read a transcript of that exchange from the debate, you have to experience the video.  He did himself no favors with that line and the delivery.

    As I've said before, all he had to do was place one hand over his heart, smile gently and say something like, "You've always had my deepest respect, Hillary."  It would have been a genuinely touching moment and it would have made him look and sound like a billion bucks in a great suit.
    What is The Cost of Energy?
    [ Parent ]

    Same here. (5.00 / 1) (#211)
    by oldpro on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 12:26:20 AM EST
    It was grudging and dismissive.

    As revealing as anything he's said in the entire campaign.

    [ Parent ]

    please don't make up things. (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by ghost2 on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:34:26 PM EST
    I have no recollection of 'no doubt about it'.  All he said was "you are likable enough, Hillary", and I cringed.  

    Unless you can find a youtube of debate to prove your version of events.

    [ Parent ]

    Found it (4.00 / 1) (#152)
    by 1jpb on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:51:06 PM EST
    Class and No Class (5.00 / 12) (#20)
    by LCaution on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:02:17 PM EST
    From the start of the campaign, watching Clinton and Obama after Iowa and New Hampshire, it became clear that Clinton was the one with class.

    Anybody not suffering from HDS who has watched the body language and listened to the two would see it. But neither Obama's "she's likable enough" or his snub, or the way he looks down at her (or in a photo I saw, at McCain) will convince an Obama supporter.

    Even an Aussie noticed it.
    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23140008-7583,00.html

    I agree with the Edwardses (5.00 / 10) (#22)
    by zyx on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:04:46 PM EST
    It seems to me that Obama is glib, aloof, and shallow.

    This troubles me.

    And thin skinned (5.00 / 4) (#52)
    by nellre on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:38:06 PM EST
    Doesn't look like he ever went to the school of hard knocks.

    [ Parent ]
    Where exactly did you get Edwards thoughts (none / 0) (#154)
    by DemPrezin2008 on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:53:13 PM EST
    from a Pro-Clinton article does not represent an endorsement by Edwards.  Please show me where Edwards has made any of these assertations.  A pro-clinton article on a pro-clinton blog is not media coverage.

    [ Parent ]
    1Jane, one more insult (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:04:48 PM EST
    and you're gone from here.

    Interesting (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by nell on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:10:58 PM EST
    I had mixed feelings about Edwards as a candidate and I sometimes thought he was really unfair to HRC, such as during the NH debate when he called her the status quo, but the South Carolina debate was an eye opener for me. I started to respect Edwards a lot more because he went after BOTH candidates - he called them both out when he thought they needed to be called out.

    And I think that was the debate that I first saw how incredulous he was at some of Obama's positions and claims, about health care, about the credit card interest rates (his excuse on that one to me sounded kind of like when he claimed he pushed the wrong button...on 6 different bills...2 of which were highly controversial), and even about Obama not taking money from lobbyists, which he does. That being said, Edwards has his own issues with Hillary and that's fine...

    I am glad he is staying out of it for now.

    Methinx Edwards (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Rainsong on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:42:42 PM EST
    Edwards is between a rock and a hard place.

    He has personal issues with Hillary, but politically he is much closer to Clinton than Obama. On policy alone - he might find more "job satisfaction" in a Clinton administration than under an Obama one?

    I also don't blame him for staying out of it until the end. Some super-delegates probably prefer a secret ballot anyway, and don't want to make their voting intentions public.


    [ Parent ]

    Is not the $64 million question.... (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Oje on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:34:49 PM EST
    Why did Edwards not endorse Clinton. That is not explained, and the whole frame of the article is how "Obama blew" an endorsement. That is certainly one side of the story. But, why did Edwards fall short of a public endorsement of Clinton, who clearly won their private exchanges? When will that story be told, I wonder...

    not really (5.00 / 3) (#69)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:57:42 PM EST
    It doesn't surprise me that edwards wouldn't endorse clinton, even apart from the personal stuff.  Hillary is behind - a politician takes a huge risk in endorsing in that circumstance.  And most politicians are risk adverse.

    More interesting is not endorsing obama.  It's the logical thing for a losing candidate to do - get behind the front runner and hope for spoils later on (see: dodd and richardson and all the gop drop outs).  

    The fact that edwards hasn't taken this step tells me two things - 1) he's interested in positioning himself as a party elder a la gore (and avoid losing stature by becoming another attack dog a la kerry) and 2) something about obama put him off.

    [ Parent ]

    I think he is planning on endorsing her soon. (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by ajain on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:01:25 PM EST

    I have read other stories that one of the reasons he hadn't endorsed her yet was because he didnt want the image of Southern White Guy not endorsing a Black candidate. (especially at the height of the race issue)

    Also I've heard that Clinton has been in regular conversations with him. So maybe there is some strategic thing going on.

    [ Parent ]

    no we aren't, (5.00 / 5) (#58)
    by cpinva on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:42:42 PM EST
    and yes it is.

    Pretty soon we are all going to have to suck it up and get together to beat John McCain. This is getting really really old.

    the more i see/hear/read about sen. obama, the less i care for him, as either a presidential candidate or human being. his bona fides are paper thin, by comparison to sen. clinton's and his whole campaign seems to be about the wonderfulness of him. while his wife may have been wowed by that, i'm not.

    frankly, i didn't believe edwards had a snowball's chance, his run with kerry made him tainted goods. that said, he also has a much greater integrity level than sen. obama. his policy positions seem to be more closely aligned with sen. clinton than sen. obama. i could easily see him in a cabinet position in a clinton administration.

    true or not, this does seem have just enough factual data in it to have the ring of accuracy about it.

    I feel the same way - (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Anne on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:53:27 PM EST
    the more i see/hear/read about sen. obama, the less i care for him, as either a presidential candidate or human being.

    I am already at the stage where hearing his voice makes me run for the "mute" button.

    As for Edwards, he was doomed from the start, with the media simply ignoring him; I fully expect that if he does endorse Clinton, the coverage will be along the lines of "some guy - I think his first name is John - endorsed Clinton today."

    I think he would be a top-notch point person on health care as VP - he could do for it what Al Gore has done for climate change, only from within the government.  I truly believe that's the only way to move this issue along - I can't help thinking that Obama's health plan will never get off the paper it's written on.

    I think she wins big in PA, and then gets a pre-NC endorsement from Edwards to move that state into the win column for her, too.

    [ Parent ]

    Mute (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by nell on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:07:39 PM EST
    is right...it is really a strange feeling. I hate listening to George W Bush, but I just make fun of him. With Obama...I change the channel or mute RIGHT AWAY. I cannot stand even looking at his face...it is a very, very strange feeling...

    As for the Edwards endorsement, I know the PPP poll isn't the most reliable, but it seemed to suggest that it would make some 30 percent of people be less likely to support Hillary...honestly, there could be a backlash if people in NC perceive it as being two white people ganging up on Obama. I know that sounds really silly, but the way race and racial guilt have been exploited by his campaign is unreal.

    [ Parent ]

    I agree (none / 0) (#172)
    by 1jpb on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:13:42 PM EST
    that it would be unfair to look at that situation as white people ganging up against BO.  But I don't think that BO would accuse them of that.

    [ Parent ]
    I don't think Health Care is particularly (none / 0) (#173)
    by nycstray on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:15:08 PM EST
    high on his agenda. Not sure what is. Methinks it will change if he's elected. And if he does do anything with it, we're talking watering down an already watered down proposal.  {sigh}

    [ Parent ]
    You mentioned (none / 0) (#166)
    by 1jpb on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:09:06 PM EST
    HRC's bona fides.  As you see it, what are her most impressive legislative accomplishments?

    [ Parent ]
    Great diary Jeralyn. (5.00 / 7) (#62)
    by Gabriele Droz on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:45:03 PM EST
    Thank you.  It's easy to feel down, until someone kicks up some reality up against the overwhelming spin.

    Can't comment on the sourcing of this article. (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by clio on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:16:47 PM EST
    Don't know enough.
    I can, however, comment on the language which,IMO, is imprecise at the the very least:

    [Obama's]response to Edwards's imprecations...

    An imprecation is a curse.

    Somehow I doubt that Edwards used curses or denunciation[s] invoking a wish or threat of evil or injury to try to persuade Obama to "make poverty a central part of his agenda."  If Edwards did indeed use imprecations it is little wonder that Obama was not persuaded.

    Perhaps Mr. Heilemann meant to say implorations:  an earnest or urgent request?

    It would be much more likely, sensible and effective for Edwards to use an "earnest request" rather than an "evil threat" when discussing agendas with any presidential candidate.

    I don't wish to infer more from this [possible] mistake than it warrants, but if the sourcing of this article is as haphazard as the writing and the editing its veracity seems questionable, at least to me.

    Or maybe (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by ruffian on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:32:00 PM EST
    supplications: a humble request, prayer, petition, etc.

    Great catch either way.  The imprecations make for an amusing mental image of the scene though.

    [ Parent ]

    I don't like Obama (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by Nadai on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:00:14 PM EST
    but this is both rude and way over the top.

    it wouold be even more over the top (none / 0) (#140)
    by RalphB on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:36:52 PM EST
    if it wasn't probably true.  though it could be said  in a calmer manner.

    [ Parent ]
    The dislike of (none / 0) (#183)
    by MKS on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:33:29 PM EST
    Obama apparently extends to even his playing hoops.......

    [ Parent ]
    I deleted that comment (none / 0) (#218)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 12:31:27 AM EST
    and it had profanity which is not allowed here. ACitizen knows better too.

    [ Parent ]
    that is what happens (5.00 / 2) (#182)
    by TheRefugee on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:27:18 PM EST
    when you are a "toe my line, kiss my a$%" type, eventually you meet someone who doesn't feel the need to do either.  

    Since I was a big JE supporter I wish if that was the case he would have had stood up and told the rest of the world at the time:  "I endorse Hillary and THIS is why." Not sure why he still hasn't endorsed if that was the case.  

    Because it's always a good time (5.00 / 4) (#193)
    by andgarden on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:58:39 PM EST
    to celebrate the fact that the loser of a primary can win an election through undemocratic processes after the fact, no?

    What? (none / 0) (#195)
    by Bob Johnson on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 12:01:50 AM EST
    One has to know the rules in order to win.

    [ Parent ]
    Ah yes,"teh roolz" (5.00 / 2) (#196)
    by andgarden on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 12:03:44 AM EST
    How do you feel about the 2000 Presidential election?

    [ Parent ]
    Wait, wasn't that vote fraud? (none / 0) (#198)
    by Bob Johnson on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 12:07:55 AM EST
    Are you comparing the two? On what basis?

    [ Parent ]
    The result of the 2000 (5.00 / 2) (#202)
    by andgarden on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 12:10:57 AM EST
    Presidential election was decided against the clear overall will of the people (in Gore's favor no matter what happened in FL).

    Gore got more votes, but lost the election because of the precious rules, as laid down by the Supreme Court. Even if Bush actually won FL by 500 votes (and I don't believe he did), the result was undemocratic and, to my mind, nothing to cheer about. And yet here you are doing exactly that. It disgusts me, frankly.


    [ Parent ]

    I am doing what? (none / 0) (#206)
    by Bob Johnson on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 12:19:46 AM EST
    Creating the rules? Gore didn't lose because of the rules. He lost fro variety of reasons, not the least of which were disqualified votes.

    Were any votes disqualified in Texas?

    [ Parent ]

    Gore lost because (5.00 / 3) (#209)
    by andgarden on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 12:23:56 AM EST
    the Supreme Court mandated a certain procedure for counting votes in Florida. He also lost because the angelic rules say that we elect presidents in the electoral college, and not by popular vote.

    The millions of Texans who were able to vote in the primary, but for whatever reason could not participate in the precinct caucus, had their intentions diluted. I consider that reprehensible.  

    [ Parent ]

    The Texas system has two parts. (none / 0) (#212)
    by Bob Johnson on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 12:26:37 AM EST
    And the Texas state party set up that system. So your complaint should be with them.

    As for beefs about the electoral college, that's a bigger issue. Some Dems are actively trying to address that now.

    [ Parent ]

    The Texas state party is responsible (5.00 / 1) (#217)
    by andgarden on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 12:29:43 AM EST
    for their travesty of a system, yes. But I am reacting to your ridiculous celebration of the distorted result that system is producing.

    Remember the Brooks Brothers riot in Florida? That's what you're sounding like.

    [ Parent ]

    Kentucky (5.00 / 3) (#210)
    by cal1942 on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 12:24:25 AM EST
    Hillary will also win Kentucky, BIG.

    Bob Johnson (5.00 / 5) (#215)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 12:29:11 AM EST
    Today was your first day here. I asked you to limit yourself to 20 comments. You posted 36. Please take Sunday off, and if you return, limit yourself to 20 comments a day. Thanks much.

    So Obama will lose? (4.66 / 6) (#48)
    by waldenpond on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:33:58 PM EST
    Here is the part of the article you refer to:

    Some senior members of Clinton's campaign have no intention of sticking around if Obama is substantially ahead come June; as much as they're devoted to their boss, they want nothing to do with a black-bag operation designed to destroy her rival, no matter what the cost.

    I agree with you on this.  I don't think they will.

    Here's a part of the article you chose to leave out:

    But these same people are also deeply convinced--beyond spin, beyond talking points, to their core--that Obama would be doomed against McCain. And Clinton believes this, too, which is one important reason why she persists despite odds that grow longer each passing day.

    Agree with that part?

    Edwards, the loser (1.66 / 6) (#65)
    by Seth90212 on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:52:39 PM EST
    demands that Obama, the front-runner and likely nominee, prioritize Edwards' policy positions over Obama's. Yeah, who's being arrogant here? Of the three (Obama, Hillary, Edwards) I have always believed that Edwards was the most arrogant, phony and self-absorbed. This article only confirms that. Not to mention a very popular video on youtube where this guy preens himself for a longer period of time than most of you ladies do in a week.

    If Edwards doesn't matter (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by shoephone on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:18:12 PM EST
    then why did Obama want his endorsement so much?

    And um.. Obama's NOT arrogant?

    [ Parent ]

    Obama's arrogance.. (5.00 / 4) (#159)
    by lentinel on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:55:38 PM EST
    To me, Obama's arrogance is so apparent I can hardly believe that everyone doesn't recoil from it instantly.

    He affects me in the same way that Bush does.
    When he appears on TV, I can't switch the channel fast enough.

    This is subjective.

    The speech at the convention that has been almost universally hailed as electrifying was something I found to be like the experience of someone letting air out of a balloon.

    His recent speech on race, again hailed as a milestone in modern oratory was to me a transparent attempt to blunt criticism and avoid controversy by wrapping himself in the flag. Changing the subject from "chickens coming home to roost" and American foreign policy to a discussion on race and his grandma reminded me of the Clarence Thomas mode of dealing with the credible accusations of Anita Hill.

    [ Parent ]

    Whend did kissing someone's butt unnecessarily... (1.00 / 2) (#36)
    by tbetz on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:16:05 PM EST
    ... first begin to qualify as "diplomacy"?

    Edwards was negotiating for something from Obama, offering Obama something that he didn't need, and demanding from him in exchange something he didn't want to give up -- a significant change in his political platform.

    Hillary kissed Edwards' butt, and still didn't get his endorsement, because, according to Heilemann, "Elizabeth hates her guts."  Obama didn't need Edwards' endorsement -- for example, he's already obtained most of Edwards' pledged Iowa delegates without it -- so he didn't kiss Edwards' butt.  

    Frankly, the whole "a Democratic strategist unaligned with any campaign but with knowledge of the situation gleaned from all three camps" source stinks of sour-grapes hearsay.

    You read (5.00 / 4) (#40)
    by lilburro on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:22:18 PM EST
    "Engaged Edwards in a lengthy policy discussion" as "butt-kissing"?

    Um......Ok.

    [ Parent ]

    I stopped feeling charitably toward Edwards... (none / 0) (#53)
    by tbetz on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:38:49 PM EST
    ... when he dropped out of the race the day after sending out a fund-raising appeal containing a promise that he was in the race right up to the convention.  

    As I read this story, Edwards didn't get the cabinet position promise he wanted from Obama, so he's putting out poison now.

    Candidates run on platforms that are a combination of their intentions and what they believe will get them into a position to work toward their intentions.

    Obama has recognized that the word "mandate" is poison at the polls, so he leaves an opt-out opening for adults in his health-care plan.

    What will end up being implemented will bear little resemblance to any Presidential candidate's proposals.

    Did FDR run with Social Security in his platform?  

    No, but that's what he enacted.

    With a big enough and progressive enough Congressional majority, even an Obama can enact a basic single-payer health care plan.  A Clinton never can.

    [ Parent ]

    What made you read it (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by lilburro on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:52:01 PM EST
    this way:

    "As I read this story, Edwards didn't get the cabinet position promise he wanted from Obama, so he's putting out poison now."

    I didn't get that at all.  And is "mandate" poison at the polls?  I didn't know.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm reading between the lines. (none / 0) (#68)
    by tbetz on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:57:30 PM EST
    My reading is based on my less-than-charitable opinion of Edwards, developed since he dropped out of the race, and on the fact that Heilemann's sole source for information about the interaction between Obama and Edwards -- as Heilemann himself admits -- is anonymous, and is hirself relaying second-hand (at best) information from three other anonymous sources.

    [ Parent ]
    You are not reading (5.00 / 5) (#127)
    by hookfan on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:21:01 PM EST
    I think you are blowing smoke.
     Hillary kissing butt-- no proof just poisonous allegation
     Edwards putting out poison-- no proof just poisonous allegation
     Obama will include single payer system if he has enough support-- no proof just positive imagination.

    [ Parent ]
    You are ignoring history... (none / 0) (#171)
    by tbetz on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:13:28 PM EST
    ... by pretending that the details of a president's campaign platform have any real relationship to the legislation they sign into law once they are elected.

    It's a common problem.

    [ Parent ]

    Fair enough (none / 0) (#72)
    by lilburro on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:02:09 PM EST
    I'm curious about this source as well.  But the "mandates are political poison" aspect I don't agree with - it seems more like the "common knowledge" that enabled so many of the things we currently frown upon from Bill Clinton's administration.

    [ Parent ]
    Did FDR run with Social Security in his platform? (5.00 / 4) (#74)
    by LHinSeattle on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:04:29 PM EST
    Did FDR run with Social Security in his platform? No, but that's what he enacted.

    So, does this mean if a candidate does NOT have a program in his platform when running, voters can count on that candidate to enact that program when elected?  

    Hey! McCain doesn't have universal health care in his platform. So, that means.....

    [ Parent ]

    No, I'm saying that the most important work... (none / 0) (#169)
    by tbetz on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:10:47 PM EST
    ... of a president is usually not part of his campaign platform. I'm saying that this year, the candidate's campaign platform is far less important than the size of the Democratic Congressional majority he can bring along with him to Washington.


    [ Parent ]
    Based on your comment, he's either (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by Joan in VA on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:11:49 PM EST
    not a progressive or he's poor negotiator. If you start out not asking for much, by the time you negotiate, you end up with not much of anything. But I don't think it's important to him anyway.

    And your last comment is just nonsense.

    [ Parent ]

    "Single payer"? (5.00 / 3) (#103)
    by shoephone on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:36:59 PM EST
    Obama's plan doesn't even provide universal access to care, much less in a single payer system.

    And as far as what Obama did or didn't offer Edwards, do you really think that Richardson endorsed Obama without getting a promise first? Especially since Richardson's endorsement came well after the NM vote, his motivation couldn't have been more transparent.

    [ Parent ]

    Maybe (none / 0) (#117)
    by clapclappointpoint on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:58:26 PM EST
    he knew that Obama was going to win because of the math and was worried about the "kitchen sink" Hillary was throwing at him.

    Or, he could have been bribed, like you suggest.

    [ Parent ]

    Politics 101 (none / 0) (#126)
    by shoephone on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:19:47 PM EST
    Defeated presidential candidates endorse their opponents all the time -- if they have been promised something in return.

    Duh.

    Richardson's endorsement won't get Obama many votes, even the Latino votes. Did you not notice how poorly Richardson did in comparison to Clinton when it came to Latino voters?


    [ Parent ]

    I'm of the opinion (none / 0) (#136)
    by clapclappointpoint on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:35:09 PM EST
    that Richardson was probably the most experienced candidate who was in the race (House of Reps, Diplomat, Secretary, Governor, etc).  His endorsement is valuable whenever it comes.  I really think it's really sad that you think he's just important to Latino voters.

    [ Parent ]
    gee and he was appointed (none / 0) (#147)
    by RalphB on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:47:36 PM EST
    a Diplomat and a Secretary by Bill Clinton.  chances are that Governorship came from those appointments.  without them he'd be just another back bench congressman.  huh, i'll bet that's what hacked Carville.


    [ Parent ]
    You're right (none / 0) (#174)
    by clapclappointpoint on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:18:12 PM EST
    Richardson wasn't qualified to hold those offices.  He was just given them by Bill C. so that, in exchange, Richardson would help Hillary with the Latino electorate.  

    Why do you have such a hard time imagining that Richardson was qualified for the posts he got, probably did a decent job at them, and picked up tons of experience doing them?  You may not like the fact that he endorsed Obama, but don't try to write him off as some sort of Ferraro-style affirmative action hire.

    [ Parent ]

    Carville definitively stated (none / 0) (#178)
    by white n az on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:22:07 PM EST
    that the reason for his comments were because Richardson made statements to other Hillary supporters that he would endorse Hillary.

    Why not take Carville at his word since he is known for speaking his mind?

    [ Parent ]

    Superdelegates (none / 0) (#184)
    by clapclappointpoint on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 11:34:24 PM EST
    are free to change their minds.  Maybe something happened in the race to change his mind.

    Hopefully, at the end of this thing, half of the superdelegates will change their mind and they can all unite behind the party nominee.

    [ Parent ]

    I gotta say (none / 0) (#221)
    by shoephone on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 12:38:29 AM EST
    I didn't like Carville's comment one bit. It was deliberately provocative and it didn't help Hillary at all.

    [ Parent ]
    So sorry you're sad :-( (none / 0) (#214)
    by shoephone on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 12:27:44 AM EST
    The reality is that Richardson's experience does not rub off on Obama in the way of new votes. Like it or not, Clinton has been winning Latino votes and Obama can't get that constituency without some serious Latino creds -- hence, the hope that Richardson can help there. Unfortunately, it's not likely to help much.

    [ Parent ]
    It seems you may (5.00 / 5) (#43)
    by rooge04 on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:25:08 PM EST
    have the same problem of understanding that Obama suffers from.

    Being gracious does not = kissing someone's butt.  And Obama strikes me most of all as having absolutely no grace. He is all arrogance.

    [ Parent ]

    I don't take Heilemann's hearsay source... (none / 0) (#54)
    by tbetz on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:40:03 PM EST
    ... at face value.

    See above.

    [ Parent ]

    What about a Drudge photo? (none / 0) (#70)
    by waldenpond on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:59:23 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Damn, you took my line. ;-) nt (none / 0) (#79)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:12:19 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Butt Kissing? (5.00 / 10) (#49)
    by kiosan on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:34:39 PM EST
    Hillary, wonkish as she is, has proved more than able to sustain at-length and in-depth extemporaneous policy discussions.  Perhaps I've been watching the wrong press, but Senator Obama has not, thus far, struck me as having the same aptitude.

    The fact that Senator Clinton, being a well-known (and much vilified for it) wonk is thereby better able to sustain a technical conversation with a proponent deeply invested in the ramifications of a given policy does not strike me as "butt-kissing" so much as "as to be expected given the historical and well-known proclivities of the particular conversants."

    I've always taken my reality with a heavy dose of pragmatism, however, so it's entirely possible I'm completely high on the stuff and thereby unable to discern between that which is true and that which is merely reasonable given the known facts.

    [ Parent ]