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Hillary Says Obama's Economic Plan Mirrors Hers but Lacks Specifics

I'm on Hillary Clinton's media conference call right now. The theme was her new economic stimulus plan vs. the one Barack Obama announced today.

Shorter version: Obama's a copycat. One week ago, Hillary proposed a $30 billion second stimulus plan. Today he introduced a $30 billion second stimulus plan. If he can't come up with his own proposals on the campaign trail, how will he do it as president?

Her plans are specific proposals, his are a statement of principles. (More here.)

They accused Obama's campaign of negative personal and character attacks on Hillary Clinton and of savaging her in personal terms on his daily campaign calls.

Polls show Obama isn't connecting with voters on the economy so he's now offering ideas, but they are ideas she proposed a week ago. That's not leadership, that's followership.

Reporter question about the Anti-Italian slur by Wright in Trumpet Magazine: They don't know anything about it. A reporter describes it. "Comments like that have no place in the public discourse."

More...

Question about tax returns: She will release all 2000 to 2006 tax returns within the week. Will it include schedules? Campaign says they are not conversant with distinctions between returns and schedules so can't answer. Point out that 20 years of Clinton tax returns and annual disclosure forms while Hillary has been a Senator is already in public domain.

Update from the AP on Obama's plan:

While he laid out a half-dozen principles for closer scrutiny of the financial markets, he offered no specifics, such as which agencies should be reorganized or exactly how the government should go about peering over the shoulders of bank executives.
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    Reality (5.00 / 9) (#3)
    by Steve M on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:36:40 PM EST
    If Obama cannot connect with working-class voters on the economy, he will not beat McCain.  I am not saying he can or he can't, but that's just how it is.

    There's this assumption in some quarters that because the economy is bad, people will just naturally gravitate towards the Democrat.  That's not how it works.  Bill Clinton won because the economy was bad, but an indispensable part of that was convincing voters that he felt their pain and had a plan to do something about it.

    McCain doesn't have the first clue about the economy, but you don't win with the general electorate by outwonking the other guy.  Any Democrat needs to develop a bond of trust on the economy with the voters on a purely emotional level, and I really don't think Obama has gotten there yet.

    As a prominent Pennsylvania blogger wrote today:

    Barack Obama has been talking about "his story" and what it means for America, but that's not the sort of thing that resonates with Pennsylvanians. We're a pragmatic state because we've seen all too closely how the whims of so-called "visionaries" affect real workers, and how plans from self-professed Smart Guys can wreak havoc on entire regions.

    Honestly, I don't have anything against Barack, and I'm kind of disappointed that Hillary hasn't gracefully bowed out since the numbers are so clearly against her. But I'd like to see the Senator from Illinois stop telling me his story and start telling me about how he's going to change the story for people in places like Pennsylvania.

    Say what you will about her, but Hillary has done that and she's done it well. She's told us she recognizes that we got the shaft with NAFTA, and that to stay competitive we need universal healthcare.

    Rather than show up in Philadelphia to give a big speech that most Philadelphians will never hear, Hillary walks around our towns and sees what has happened to places like Ohio and Pennsylvania. She's told us that she's learning the lessons along with the rest of us, and here in PA, that's something we can respect.

    When it comes down to it, I know they have just about the same positions on everything. I just wish Senator Obama would take some time out from talking about himself to let us know.



    I'm pretty much over "his" story, too, (5.00 / 4) (#29)
    by Anne on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:06:39 PM EST
    and feel like he needs to be a lot more acquainted with and interested in "my" story.

    I think the quoted section brings up what I see as a major difference in these two campaigns, and that is that Obama's is too much about him, and not enough about the people he would be elected to serve.

    I never much liked people who would swoop in at the last minute and take credit for other people's hard work, and Obama's record  - as we've been hearing more about lately - seems to show that this is his pattern; this is a sign to me that the person Obama is most interested in is himself, and I'm not sure how that translates to a presidency that benefits the people.

    Parent

    except for his health care plan, (5.00 / 0) (#38)
    by Josey on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:16:27 PM EST
    Edwards supporters noticed throughout 2007, Obama was always last to release policy proposals - very similar to Edwards' and Hillary's and sometimes with identical wording.
    This was documented several times at MyDD.


    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Steve M on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:24:42 PM EST
    the usual pattern was that Edwards would go first, Hillary would more or less copy him, and then Obama would present something that was basically the same but with a few tweaks to distinguish it.  And what we noticed was that the tweaks were always in the direction of the center, never towards the left.

    Parent
    This seems like a good attack on Obama... (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by Exeter on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 02:37:13 PM EST
    It seems like this is the latest issue where he... suprise... comes out with something that is so close to his opponent(s) that they cannot attack it without attacking themselves-- keeping the campaign all about style over substance. This is the ugly, misanthropic underbelly of Obama's campaign.

    Parent
    you've nailed it! (none / 0) (#101)
    by Josey on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:09:12 PM EST
    You don't copyright a recovery plan (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:40:06 PM EST
    The way to fix this existed even before the Clinton.

    I know they feel they have to campaign on a certain level, but what matters to me is not who invented the hammer, the wrench, the pliars, and the screw driver, but who knows how to use those tools and has a history of fixing things.

    That's what I'd tell them if I was on a conference call.


    The questions are by reporters (5.00 / 6) (#7)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:41:47 PM EST
    Reporters ask questions and pick the topics after the campaign people give a 5 minute talk on a particular theme.

    I just deleted a comment that said the campaign was pushing Wright. Please read more carefully. A reporter brought it up and they shut it down by saying they hadn't heard about it and the reporter went on to read Wright's comments and they said simply "Comments like that have no place in the public discourse." They then went to the next question. Clearly, they were not pushing Wright.

    That was me and I was snarking. (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by oculus on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:43:58 PM EST
    As you recall, a couple days ago Obama spoke about Wright, as did Hillary Clinton, but the headlines were that she was pushing the issue.  Pissed me off.

    Parent
    please realize (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:47:51 PM EST
    particularly with your one  liners that people don't know if you are serious or not. Many people who read here are not regulars. As stated, it promoted misinfromation. You can add a "[/sarcasm] after your comment to distinguish.

    Parent
    wasn't the line last week (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by TheRefugee on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:42:42 PM EST
    his was 10 billion because he wanted to give x to help protect homeowners in danger of foreclosure but that he didn't want to "prop" up big business?  

    guess the 20 mill difference meant something to someone...like say, big business?

    oops, 20 billion not million n/t (none / 0) (#9)
    by TheRefugee on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:43:15 PM EST
    It is just this (5.00 / 0) (#14)
    by leis on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:46:49 PM EST
    sort of thing that makes me hesitant to embrace a unity ticket.  I don't know that he brings much to the table.

    Just curious (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by fladem on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:51:33 PM EST
    on this conference call have they bothered attacking McCain??

    I know, what an unreasonable question.

    She isn't (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by leis on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:55:28 PM EST
    running against McCain for the Democratic nomination. It makes sense for her to point these things out because no one else is going to do it for her.  

    Parent
    Actually (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Steve M on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:59:11 PM EST
    Ben Smith reports that Hillary focused on McCain quite nicely in her speech on the economy in North Carolina today.  I trust you find this to be encouraging news.

    Parent
    x (5.00 / 0) (#37)
    by CognitiveDissonance on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:16:24 PM EST
    She has also mentioned McCain in every stump speech that I've heard on CSPAN and the other networks. The big problem, as it always is this year, is what the MSM actually reports. Just because the media doesn't talk about it doesn't mean the campaigns aren't discussing it.

    Which reminds me of a segment I saw on Lou Dobbs the other day. He was complaining about the fact that the issues weren't being discussed by the campaigns, just the Rev. Wright stuff. But that isn't true at all. It's the media that only focuses on one irrelevancy after another. They seldom discuss the issues the campaigns are bringing out unless they think they can find a "gotcha" in it.


    Parent

    As an American of mixed Italian decent (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:58:46 PM EST
    I was going to take great offense to Wright's comment, but since my mouthful of Trident only barely covers the residuals from last night's pasta dinner, I guess I'll have to find something else to get all self-righteous over...

    Original ideas. (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by TokenLiberal on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:15:47 PM EST
    That's the one thing I find so lacking in him. When I was listening to his speech this morning all I heard were talking points - probably given to him by his advisors. That got me to thinking how last week he was tying the cost of the Iraq war to our economic problems here at home - which was what John Edwards was doing over a month ago. I'm afraid the reporters won't be doing any serious questioning of what his actual policies are - too busy looking for mis-statements by Clinton to look for any on the other side.

    Expert Advice (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by kc on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:56:11 PM EST
    --you know, one person's expert is anothers idiot.

    Leaders have to know something about issues and have some 'intellectual curiousity' to discern if their experts advice makes sense and is workable.

    I recall the debate (none / 0) (#1)
    by DCDemocrat on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:32:33 PM EST
    where Hillary asked whether we should get a pillow for Senator Obama and asked why the Russert and Williams always led questions with her, letting the Senator from Illinois essentially say, "Ditto.  What she said."

    Wasn't There... (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by AmyinSC on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:38:54 PM EST
    A NY Times article last week in which the Obama people tried to claim Clinton copied HIM on another package?  It was LAUGHABLE considering Mr. Ditto and his, "Yeah, what SHE said.."

    I would love - just once - for him to come out with an actual plan ALL HIS own that he had not copied.

    And I would love for the media to do its job and HIGHLIGHT this instead of having to wait for parodies to make the point...

    Parent

    I would like him (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by TheRefugee on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:55:00 PM EST
    to be able to debate a single issue in a substantive manner.  I have reservations about Obama for that reason alone.  Hillary knows her stuff...she could sit down and talk issues with any reporter who wanted to do so...for hours.  Obama?  I have no idea because he steadfastly refuses to address issues.  It works so much better for him to have the media focus on 'negatives' than issues because if the talk turns to issues he will lose.  I happen to think that he loses on negatives as well but apparently the media has remembered how much they loved the intro-line "Well, the Clintons are at it again" during the 90's.

    Parent
    Because after a while (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by suisser on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:59:22 PM EST
    that beautiful voice, that fine cadence, that particularly perfect phrasing runs dry.  And the candidate who sounds so wonderful and moves so many, would fall silent, and what a very telling silence it would be.

    Parent
    Example in NYT article (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by oculus on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    today on Gov. Patrick.  "Early Dazzle, Then Tough Path for a Governor."

    Parent
    Exactly... (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by AmyinSC on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:34:44 PM EST
    And along the lines of Anne's comments, I am sick and tired of him not only taking credit, but GETTING credit, for work he has not done.  Just like when everyone blew off his plagarizing before, he seems not to just get away with it, but gets away with a wink and a nod as well!  

    With just about everything else in this election, whenever this happens, like with Wright, and MEEKS (about whom we have heard blessed little - ahem), or Rezko, or not creating his OWN plans, I think: if this was HILLARY, how would the MS respond?!?!  I think we all know the answer to that.  It makes me nuts.

    Like TheRefugee says, Clinton can talk policy because she KNOWS it! I would rather hear my president talk policy and issues until the cows come home - isn't that what we EXPECT a prez to be able to do?!

    Parent

    I have a theory (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Anne on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:53:14 PM EST
    that the mainstream just doesn't want to believe that Hillary stands head and shoulders above Obama on policy details, and so treats her as if she is invisible; when he comes out with plans that are similar, the media acts as if this is Obama breaking new ground and fall all over themselves to lavish him with praise and credit.

    I agree that it is infuriating, and all she can do - which I think she is doing very well - is take her arguments right to the people who can see and hear that she knows her stuff, and that she knows what their problems are.

    Parent

    Excellent... (none / 0) (#82)
    by AmyinSC on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 02:42:13 PM EST
    Theory!  I concur!

    Parent
    He regularly does town meetings (none / 0) (#35)
    by zzyzx on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:15:28 PM EST
    CNN.com live streams them quite frequently.  It's just him being asked question after question for an hour or two.  He was able to talk rather intelligently on patent reform, off all issues, so it's not like he doesn't have this ability.  

    Parent
    He has the ability to answer questions (none / 0) (#102)
    by kayla on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:22:24 PM EST
    But I've seen them both in a town hall question and answer setting, and she seems to have a depth of knowledge that Obama hasn't shown.  However, I have the sneaking suspicion that if he gets the nom, he's going to speak in more specifics.

    Parent
    This thread is about (none / 0) (#16)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:49:29 PM EST
    what was said and asked on the conference calls, their economic packages, and Hillary's charge that he copies her plans.

    Off topic comments must go to an open thread.

    Please focus on McCAIN! (none / 0) (#21)
    by MSS on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:56:02 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton and Barack bama are NOT the enemies!

    Please keep the focus on McCAIN -- whose policies would drives us far into a war in Iran, continuation of the terrible Bush policies that brought us to Ira q and near bankruptcy.

    BOTH Hillary and Barack have economic plans to get us out of this dire economic mess. Does any of us really believe it would be WORSE to have Obama's plan than McCain's?

    Why are we feeding the McCain machine at this time?

    You know what I think, (none / 0) (#28)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:04:16 PM EST
    I think no matter what stim plan gets implemented and no matter who implements it, the economy will get better. Until it gets worse, of course. But after that it'll get better again. Until it gets worse, and then better, then worse, then...

    Well said. (none / 0) (#33)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:11:36 PM EST
    I don't believe this (none / 0) (#49)
    by thereyougo on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:29:59 PM EST
    because it goes to leadership to instill confidence that the country is at peace.

    If a president can't do that, then the markets react. Thats one of the reasons we're in a pickle.War doesn't help except the chosen few.

    Historically, the US economy has done better under democratic leadership

    Parent

    x (none / 0) (#41)
    by CognitiveDissonance on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:20:40 PM EST
    Do you really think the policies of the Bush administration have had no effect on the economy???? If that were true, why are we working so hard to elect a democratic president?

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#51)
    by Steve M on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:33:23 PM EST
    do you think the government's approach to regulating the financial markets has no effect in terms of warding off problems like the ones we're currently dealing with?

    do you think the administration's antitrust policy, to name an example, is irrelevant to the orderly functioning of the market?

    Of course the President cannot overrule the business cycle by fiat.  But I dislike the jaded argument that says only rubes believe the President has an effect on the economy.  Economic policy matters a great deal.

    Parent

    Definitely (none / 0) (#53)
    by badger on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:35:03 PM EST
    Bush's tax cuts and the war in Iraq have had no impact on the economy. I guess that guy upthread who was looking for Clinton's positions on financial regulation was wrong too, since the President has no effect on the economy (excuse me, "significant" effect).

    Parent
    and of course "the guy upthread" (none / 0) (#60)
    by tree on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:46:13 PM EST
    and the one dissing the ability of any President to have a "significant" effect on the economy are the same poster.

    Parent
    Short and long term are different (none / 0) (#54)
    by Manuel on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:35:24 PM EST
    The effect a president can have in the short term is limited.  Long term, however, the effects can be large (e.g. The New Deal).  The tax policy will have an effect long term.

    Parent
    I guess when (none / 0) (#93)
    by PlayInPeoria on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 03:35:36 PM EST
    Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman Christopher Cox had an emergency meeting with Pres Bush on Sunday March 16th .... it was just a party! They must not have discussed that emergency cut in key interest rates.

    Parent
    Check her website (none / 0) (#32)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:11:05 PM EST
    Her $30 billion second stimulus plan was on March 20.

    She unveiled a new policy today "on rebuilding the middle class by creating new jobs and promoting job training." The AP reports:

    Among other things, the former first lady called for a new program to extend federal aid known as Pell Grants to workers enrolled in education programs aimed at updating their skills. She also promoted a pre-emptive training initiative to allow workers concerned about potential threats to their jobs to receive grants to help transition into other industries.

    She also released a four point plan on retirement and medicare this week.

    You can read about her leadership on the economy here.

    That must be why (5.00 / 0) (#48)
    by badger on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:29:55 PM EST
    Obama said we couldn't do any large NASA programs because we don't have enough scientists.

    Creating jobs is not as simple as demand-side vs. supply-side, and a trained workforce is one factor - Clinton has made other proposals which address other factors. As Obama supporters always say: check her website.

    On the other hand, Obama's chief econ advisor (Goolsbee) wrote an op-ed in the NYT a few months back saying the sub-prime lending crisis was a good thing. Maybe that was because Obama has taken more donations from sub-prime lenders than Clinton and McCain combined, and is doing a speech/fundraiser at Credit Suisse First Boston today.

    That must be the "new politics" he talks about.

    Parent

    Actually (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Steve M on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:30:13 PM EST
    Hillary has been very, very clear about the need for tougher regulation of the financial markets.

    "If you go back and look at our history, we were most successful when we had that balance between an effective, vigorous government and a dynamic, appropriately regulated market," Mrs. Clinton said. "And we have systematically diminished the role and the responsibility of our government, and we have watched our market become imbalanced."

    She added: "I want to get back to the appropriate balance of power between government and the market."

    In the last two weeks, Mrs. Clinton has devoted most of her public remarks to the economy, and she won the New Hampshire primary and the Nevada caucus largely because of support from households making less than $50,000 a year, according to polls conducted by Edison/Mitofsky.

    Mrs. Clinton's approach to the economy would have three main components. She would roll back the Bush tax cuts for households with incomes over $250,000 while creating more tax breaks below that threshold; impose closer scrutiny on financial markets, including the investments being made by foreign governments in the United States; and raise spending on job-creating projects like the development of alternative energy.

    Perhaps she doesn't focus on this as much in her stump speech because it's difficult for regular voters to understand the connection between this issue and the problems they face in their own lives.  But she had no reservations about going on record on the subject in the New York Times.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Steve M on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 02:06:15 PM EST
    You want her to talk about stricter regulation of the financial markets, and then when she does talk about it, you dismiss it as meaningless because she didn't sit there and draft a statute for you.  I'm getting the impression you don't come from a position of good faith on this.


    Parent
    They've got their talking points (none / 0) (#55)
    by RalphB on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:37:33 PM EST
    and are sticking to them.  Confusing with the facts probably won't help.  :-)

    It's always nice to see people who don't know the difference between demand side and supply side talking about others being economically illiterate.


    Parent

    You might want (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by nemo52 on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 02:04:26 PM EST
    to do some additional research.  It has been cited by several sources, including David Gergen and Carl Bernstein, that Hillary was vocally opposed to NAFTA at the time.  (And neither Gergen nor Bernstein is a big Hillary supporter.)

    Parent
    "he offered no specifics" (none / 0) (#39)
    by nycstray on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:17:08 PM EST
    why am I not surprised. Seems to be a trend. {sigh}

    I wonder if this is his 'response' to Krugman's remarks on Monday?

    Jeralyn, I'm sorry but (none / 0) (#47)
    by echinopsia on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:29:14 PM EST
    you have an apostrophe from hell in the title. It should be "Hers".

    </editor>

    I'm sorry too (none / 0) (#73)
    by mmeo on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 02:07:39 PM EST
    but it's necessary to keep repeating the message.  

    Hers is a pronoun.  The one belonging to her.

    Standard English is already an endangered species.

    Parent

    Obama's response to Clinton's (none / 0) (#56)
    by waldenpond on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:40:19 PM EST
    plan.

    At a follow-up conference call, Obama economic adviser Daniel Tarullo was asked why the candidate's speech this morning didn't include hard numbers for his financial reform proposal.

    Tarullo pointed out that new regulations are hundreds of pages long, in "microscopic federal registry font."

    "Anyone who thinks you should have specificity like that probably doesn't understand how financial regulation is supposed to work," he said.

    He said that pinpointing the need for liquidity requirements and internal risk management protocols for investment banks and the like was more valuable than issuing minutely detailed proposals. "What he [Obama] does is lay down the starting point for the elaboration of the specifics," Tarullo said

    This would be funny (none / 0) (#66)
    by Cream City on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:54:28 PM EST
    if it wasn't so worrisome.

    Parent
    Obama's got a lock on the investor/ (none / 0) (#78)
    by MarkL on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 02:21:42 PM EST
    banker vote.

    Parent
    Specifically Credit Suisse (none / 0) (#84)
    by waldenpond on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 02:53:59 PM EST
    "On Monday, the Obama campaign responded to Hillary unveiling a comprehensive plan to deal with the housing crisis by attacking her for taking contributions connected to subprime lenders. Campaign manager David Plouffe said: 'If we're really going to crack down on the practices that caused the credit and housing crises, we're going to need a leader who doesn't owe those industries any favors.'

    "As it turns out, those were just words. ... Today, Sen. Obama gives an economy speech followed by a fundraiser at -- you guessed it -- one of the top 10 issuers of subprime loans in America, Credit Suisse. In fact, Sen. Obama has taken more money from the top 10  loans than BOTH Sen. Clinton and Sen. McCain [cq.com]."

    I think that one is going to come back on Obama in the general when the 'I'm cleaner than you' fight starts.

    Parent

    This Would Be Funny... (none / 0) (#83)
    by AmyinSC on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 02:47:11 PM EST
    If it wasn't TRUE!!!  Good grief!!  And below, someone said Obama gets top billing at the NYT with the photo, the flags, and all of that, for CLINTON'S plan?!?!?  Oh, holy toledo..

    Parent
    Money Changes Everything (none / 0) (#62)
    by Jaman on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:50:20 PM EST
    It has been said over and again that there is very little real political difference between Clinton and Obama.  There is a big difference.

    The most powerful institutions in our world today are not governments they are corporations.  Relying on the Fourteenth Amendment, added to the Constitution in 1868 to protect the rights of freed slaves, the Court ruled that a private corporation is a natural person under the U.S. Constitution, and consequently has the same rights and protection extended to persons by the Bill of Rights, including the right to free speech.  Unless and until the Supreme Court revisits this radical decision we cannot take the corporate money out of our politics.  Any law that attempts to limit the money corporations can spend to influence our laws and policies will be struck down using this precedent.  Corporations are not people.  The word "corporation" does not appear anywhere in our Constitution or Bill of Rights.

    Hillary and Bill Clinton have mastered the art of using corporate money as their political tools.  That is the how NAFTA and Welfare Reform came to be.  This money has corrupted them, as well as most of our representatives of both parties.  We all need to examine our religions; how we believe what we believe.  Realizing not one politician has explained the above is the primary example of how powerful this corrupt system is.  It is no mystery how we came to this.  One bad Supreme Court decision, referenced over and over put us where we are.

    Will Obama change this?  I have no idea, but I am positive another round of the Clintons and the DLC will not.


    Issues and differences (none / 0) (#64)
    by BarnBabe on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:52:50 PM EST
    I have long said he was a follower and when I saw today he has a new plan, I was like, once again, she has one, he has one.Glad to notice others saw that too.

    But today I was checking the weather in NE PA on a Scranton weather site TV Station. They had this quiz on who fits your particular issues. I answered the 11 questions and guess what, it was Hillary with 57,BHO 53,Paul 20,Mitt 15,McCain 5, and Huck 1. If I can link this, you might want to test your candidate. Quiz
     

    My score is... (none / 0) (#99)
    by alexei on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 04:26:47 PM EST
    Clinton 85, Obama 78, Gravel 68, Paul 24, McCain 14 Romney 14 and Huckabee 7.

    I knew I couldn't vote for McCain, but I can still write in for Hillary (and if VT goes red, won't matter who I voted for).

    Nice little quiz. Thanks

    Parent

    Annual disclosure forms (none / 0) (#68)
    by rilkefan on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 02:02:12 PM EST
    What's the difference between these and tax returns?

    My understanding (none / 0) (#89)
    by tree on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 03:05:33 PM EST
    is that the Senate annual disclosure forms are a required filing for all Senators. Its a series of questions to be answered on sources of income,etc. Its filed with, and published by, the Senate Ethics panel.

    Parent
    When I first saw them (none / 0) (#98)
    by nycstray on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 04:26:17 PM EST
    I thought they were part of the tax return. You can got to Open Secrets and see hers for the senate years and they include Bill's lecture fees etc.

    Parent
    to suggest that the president (none / 0) (#69)
    by cpinva on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 02:03:37 PM EST
    has little or no effect on the economy is to display a complete lack of knowledge on both the presidency and the economy. recent history is but a glaring example of the short and long-term effects a president can have: bush's tax cuts, unnecessariy war in iraq, scaling back banking regulation, ad infinitum.

    the president has the bully pulpit, he/she can craft and have legislation proposed, and put their political capital behind it. your party in the majority in both houses is also quite helpful.

    i like specifics. not minutiae mind you, but a decently filled in outline of the actual plan of attack. most thinking people do. it's helpful as well if the president has at least a basic grasp of economic theory, and gets solid advisors.

    sen. clinton has amply demonstrated a good working knowledge of economics, sen. obama has not.

    Bill Clinton (none / 0) (#71)
    by kc on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 02:04:31 PM EST
    --meant to add that I think that is one reason that WJC moved so many Democrats.  For me, I could listen to him talk about policies and be on the edge of my seat because he had a way of explaining even difficult things so that it was understandable. Plus, You felt his excitement and interest in it.
    That is his forte. A couple of years ago, my daughter heard him speak to a convention that her company and industry reps. (corp. governance)had in San Diego and she  called me afterwards so excited. She said that he had everyone in the room spellbound.

    I'm not an economist (none / 0) (#75)
    by DodgeIND on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 02:13:02 PM EST
    But this seems a pretty decent (if not most likely abridged) report of what Obama thinks of the economy.

    http://obama.3cdn.net/f9836ef496f75a9be0_39gimvt5b.pdf

    Does Hilary have a similar document?  I'd like to read it.

    Obama copies Hillary but gets front (none / 0) (#76)
    by thereyougo on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 02:16:07 PM EST
    page ink in the NYT, if that isn't biased.

    and the backdrop, the flag, the podium, man this guy is just all show.

    wheres the beef Obama?

    I linked something a few posts up. (none / 0) (#79)
    by DodgeIND on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 02:21:50 PM EST
    that I think is detailed enough.

    I think part of his problem is (none / 0) (#97)
    by nycstray on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 04:24:26 PM EST
    he's too wordy. It's his problem in debates and in his issue writing. He's gotten better in the debates, but not as much in his writing. You shouldn't have to wade through 48 pages to find out where he is on something. He needs to find a balance between lack of specifics and reading a book  ;)

    But of course, it's harder to be held to his word if he doesn't have some easy direct info out there. And it's easier to pander without them also.

    Parent

    Moopsey (none / 0) (#103)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 06:00:42 PM EST
    Enough from you today. Come back tomorrow if you'd like but don't try to dominate the posts. And stop insulting commenters.

    Parent
    Interesting (none / 0) (#87)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 03:02:11 PM EST
    So I guess this 48 page policy document isn't specific enough?

    But I am truly shocked that the Clinton Campaign finds Obama's plan lacking, except when it matches Hillary's.  I'm equally shocked that they believe he doesn't connect with the average American on the economy.

    What's next?  Are they going to go out on a limb and say that Hillary is the better choice for President?

    compare/contrast (none / 0) (#90)
    by Robert Oak on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 03:11:43 PM EST
    I've briefly scanned the speech.  While it does appear he is mentioning derivatives, (see Derivatives, investment vehicles no one Understands) I did not see clear plans, but he did mention an oversight committee.  

    I plan on doing a comparison/contrast as I've done on

    Higher Education
    and
    Trade

    between the two.

    I think Hillary made a huge mistake in mentioning Rubins and Greenspan, that's really letting the foxes in the hen house, but someone somewhere has to start regulating these financial investment vehicles, long term.

    I get sick of the accusations, I became truly disgusting on the NAFTA slams because Obama simply has no public position position that implies he will renegotiate trade deals, so I find the finger pointing ridiculous.

    heh, I did a few compare reads (none / 0) (#96)
    by nycstray on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 04:20:05 PM EST
    early on with some issues that I care about. On some, I can't find anything substantive in O's past that would give me a clue. On others, no meat and/or teeth.

    I look forward to see yours on this issue :) I do not trust him on trade. Or the safety of imports, etc.

    Parent

    Corporations Control the Economy (none / 0) (#100)
    by Jaman on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 05:00:29 PM EST
    It has been said over and again that there is very little real political difference between Clinton and Obama.  There is a big difference.

    The most powerful institutions in our world today are not governments they are corporations.  Relying on the Fourteenth Amendment, added to the Constitution in 1868 to protect the rights of freed slaves, the Court ruled that a private corporation is a natural person under the U.S. Constitution, and consequently has the same rights and protection extended to persons by the Bill of Rights, including the right to free speech.  Unless and until the Supreme Court revisits this radical decision we cannot take the corporate money out of our politics.  Any law that attempts to limit the money corporations can spend to influence our laws and policies will be struck down using this precedent.  Corporations are not people.  The word "corporation" does not appear anywhere in our Constitution or Bill of Rights.

    Hillary and Bill Clinton have mastered the art of using corporate money as their political tools.  That is the how NAFTA and Welfare Reform came to be.  This money has corrupted them, as well as most of our representatives of both parties.  We all need to examine our religions; how we believe what we believe.  Realizing not one politician has explained the above is the primary example of how powerful this corrupt system is.  It is no mystery how we came to this.  One bad Supreme Court decision, referenced over and over put us where we are.

    Will Obama change this?  I have no idea, but I am positive another round of the Clintons and the DLC will not.


    Response by Obama campaign: (none / 0) (#104)
    by oculus on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 07:54:48 PM EST
    Asked about the comments, Bill Burton, a spokesman for Mr. Obama, wrote in an email message, "The American people are tired of the sniping from the Clinton campaign -- both real and imagined."


    Mortgage mess (none / 0) (#105)
    by diogenes on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 10:29:47 PM EST
    NY Times Editorial on 3/27 said that Obama's plan to amend bankruptcy law to handle mortgages made much more sense than Hillary's plan to handle troubled mortgages, and his plan IS DIFFERENT in this regard.