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Race-Free Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:33:00 PM EST
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Bumped BTD

I'll be at the dentist most of the day and I'm tired of moderating race-baiting comments. Here's an open thread with a caveat....no Rev. Wright, no race talk. Those comments will be deleted when I get back.

In other news:

  • Ann Althouse writes about Obama pitches to Texas delegates, including those like her son who are Hillary delegates, encouraging them to vote for Obama at the county convention.

More...

In the mail department, my e-mail box is flooded with hate messages from right-wing Rush supporters.

One writes:

"I am proud soldier serving in the Army and a proud supporter of Rush Limbaugh and Operation Chaos! ....Your party chose our candidate and now we will choose yours SO GET OVER IT! "

He seems to think we forced McCain on them.

Then there's ones like these, from long time Clinton haters, with very long memories:

I see that you are hot to trot in getting Limbaugh (for abetting fraud) and some Ohio voters indicted on falsifying an affidavit. Weren't you the same lawyer who was on TV every nite during the Clinton crime family presidency saying that the sex predator Bill Clinton shouldn't be prosecuted for lying to a grand jury under oath? Why your 180 degree turn...or is that SOP for left-wingers?

And this,

How ingenious of you, Herr Abrams. Lock up people who don't vote the way we want them to vote. The party will be pleased when they hear of your idea. And to bring in a former Clinton waterboy...I mean watergirl....in Jeralyn Merritt. A numbskull lawyer to scare people. Brilliant! Just brilliant, Herr Abrams. Heil Hitler.
Adolph Hitler 2nd.

And my personal favorite:

You're a desperate, attention seeking, aging
ex-celeb and we're tired of you. Oh yeah, and comb your hair, for God's sake.

There are some really sick people out there in radioland.

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    Race-Free Open Thread | 192 comments (192 topical)

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    I'm (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by tek on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:09:37 PM EST
    curious what people think about the Party possibly nominating Gore?  Would that unite all of us behind one candidate?

    You can't have a race... (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:48:50 PM EST
    ... between the first serious female candidate and the first serious black candidate, and emerge with a white guy on top of the ticket, no matter how much I like Al Gore.

    [ Parent ]
    I'd vote for Gore (none / 0) (#7)
    by CST on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:10:46 PM EST
    or Obama or Clinton.  I don't think Gore would take it if they offered it.  Otherwise, why not just run?

    [ Parent ]
    That would disenfranchise 25 million voters (none / 0) (#8)
    by diplomatic on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:11:00 PM EST
    other than that...

    [ Parent ]
    2 million, 25 million - who's counting? (none / 0) (#39)
    by Fabian on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:54:35 PM EST
    Or not counting...

    I'd vote for Gore without hesitation.

    [ Parent ]

    way more than 2 million have voted this primary (none / 0) (#45)
    by diplomatic on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:34:54 PM EST
    that's what I meant.  Al Gore has not received many votes in this primary.  He had his chance to run again.  The nomination was his for the taking, but he didn't seize the moment.

    [ Parent ]
    Looking at this race (none / 0) (#48)
    by Fabian on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:40:56 PM EST
    I can see why he didn't.  Hillary is a formidable opponent and if Gore didn't get the nom, he'd never get that year of his life back.

    I think Gore is a realist.  What people like to vote for are a pretty face, a safe, comfortable platform and lots of happy talk.  I don't think he wanted to play that game again.  Voters only pay attention when they are directly threatened, unfortunately.  Issue Number One is the Economy.  Why?  Because people are afraid.

    [ Parent ]

    Your post made me wonder (none / 0) (#57)
    by diplomatic on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:13:25 PM EST

    What people like to vote for are a pretty face, a safe, comfortable platform and lots of happy talk.  

    "So much for that," says John Edwards

    [ Parent ]

    That's funny (none / 0) (#154)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:33:54 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I thought delegates were free (none / 0) (#72)
    by rebrane on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 04:17:38 PM EST
    to vote for any candidate they chose. At least, that's what I've been hearing from one campaign.

    [ Parent ]
    If Clinton gives her support to Gore (none / 0) (#93)
    by Prabhata on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:43:40 PM EST
    And only then, I would support Gore.  Don't get me wrong, if Gore had ran against Clinton, I would have supported him, not HRC.  But if Clinton and Obama agreed that the Democrats are divided and the party benefits with Gore, then I would follow HRC with my support.

    [ Parent ]
    Actually... (none / 0) (#139)
    by Exeter on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:48:45 PM EST
    I real like this idea. And it really not as unrealistic as it seems. If neither candidate has enough delegates, we have a brokered selection. In that scenario, with both sides digging in deep and hating the other side, there is an opportunity for a third person that is liked by both sides to win. Historically, this has happened numerous times.

    Gore could be such a person. Richardson actually is another possability -- and it would still be a historical election if it were him.  I can't think of any other "elder statesman" of the party that could fit the bill.

    [ Parent ]

    To my knowledge, (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by NJDem on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:13:35 PM EST
    two things have never happened:

    1. A Democratic Convention that didn't seat two states.

    2. Someone getting the nomination who didn't actually run for president (this year).

    Then again, it is a historic election :)
    Who would you hire for CEO of America - (none / 0) (#96)
    by Josey on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:59:44 PM EST
    Clinton or Obama?  insightful and amusing article.

    www.Philly.com
    http://tinyurl.com/2n62r3

    [ Parent ]

    Believe it or not #2 is wrong (none / 0) (#103)
    by eric on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 07:29:41 PM EST
    In 1952, the Democrats nominated Adlai Stevenson, who had not, up to that point, been running for President.

    LINK

    [ Parent ]

    Election Rigging (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by squeaky on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:15:48 PM EST
    US style, or Iraq puppet government style both are the same, imo. Looks like the provincial election in October will be determined by the heavy hand of the US if things continue as planned. This is not surprising as the US has a long history of disenfranchising voters by jailing them, gerrymandering, etc.
    Although, killing them is not something we see a lot of here in the US

    Provincial elections are at long last being held in October. But the US seems to be arresting or killing all the voters, that is voters that belong to al-Sadr's block.

    BAGHDAD -- Fierce gunbattles erupted between U.S.- backed Iraqi security forces and supporters of anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr in Basra, Baghdad and other cities Tuesday, undermining a long-term truce that has helped reduce the level of violence in the five-year-old Iraq war.

    In the southern oil-hub city of Basra, Iraq's major port, at least 31 people were killed as the government began a citywide crackdown on armed groups in areas controlled by al-Sadr's militia, the Mahdi Army.

    link via Juan Cole

    It will only get worse, The US is dead set against an Iraqi nationalist gaining power in the government. It seems that they will not allow al-Sadr a bigger platform via democracy, and it seems that this end badly and  blow up in the US occupier's face.


    wasn't one of the reasons (none / 0) (#29)
    by thereyougo on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Iraq was invaded was so that they'd have free elections?

    oh more lies? figures

    [ Parent ]

    Sadr is Iran's (none / 0) (#156)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:36:26 PM EST
    puppet. You know that, Juan Cole knows that.

    [ Parent ]
    Hahahhhahaha (none / 0) (#165)
    by squeaky on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:49:28 PM EST
    Back at it ppj?  

    Sadr is a fierce Iraqi nationalist. To imagine that he is anyones puppet is jhilarious.

    It is true that he does not like the US, though. If he gains power he will make allies with Iran, China, Pakistan and Afghanistan, and the US if they were willing, but on Iraqi terms.

    [ Parent ]

    sadr's lucky i wasn't in charge (none / 0) (#179)
    by cpinva on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:16:17 PM EST
    of US forces early on, he'd be nothing but a distant, unpleasant memory, and his city a smoking, black hole in the ground. of course, had i been in charge, we'd have gone into iraq with at least 500k troops, and anyone who even looked crosseyed at me would have been instantly vaporized. sets a good example for the rest.

    a country can't have more than one leader, it confuses the citizens.

    [ Parent ]

    Genocide? (none / 0) (#187)
    by squeaky on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:41:00 PM EST
    You share neocon fantasies. He is a very popular nationalist hero like his father was, a man killed by Sadaam. Too many  people to kill. Martyring him would not help the US.

    [ Parent ]
    Im guessing that (none / 0) (#197)
    by jondee on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 10:31:40 AM EST
    was sarcasm, if I know cp's m.o.

    [ Parent ]
    Guess Again (none / 0) (#198)
    by squeaky on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 10:34:37 AM EST
    He has always hated al-Sadr and has rooted for eliminating him and his followers.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh, And (none / 0) (#173)
    by squeaky on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:12:14 PM EST
    Just so you are not up to date with the latest developments:

    Al-Zaman reports in Arabic that members of the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq (ISCI, formerly SCIRI, led by Abdul Aziz al-Hakim); the Da'wa Party led by Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki; and the Badr Corps paramilitary of ISCI have fled their HQs in Basra and Kut, because of the threat that they will be stormed by Mahdi Army militiamen [seeking revenge for the current offensive], In fact, some such buildings already have been attacked.

    Juan Cole


    [ Parent ]

    Dont confuse (none / 0) (#202)
    by jondee on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 11:01:56 AM EST
    us with thorny realities on the ground.

    I want my The Surge is Working bumpersticker and my blanky.

    [ Parent ]

    It Is Looking Quite Bad (none / 0) (#204)
    by squeaky on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 11:26:21 AM EST
    Looks like another Falluja assault, but this time with the help of Hakim's badr brigade and the Iraq army. Many civilians will die as usual.

    Juan Cole

    [ Parent ]

    What our resident (none / 0) (#199)
    by jondee on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 10:35:31 AM EST
    omniscient connoiseur of wingnut talk radio pablum knows, everyone knows -- deep down.

    We're all just afraid to admit it.

    [ Parent ]

    lol (none / 0) (#200)
    by squeaky on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 10:41:20 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    and what (none / 0) (#207)
    by jondee on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 12:19:02 PM EST
    was going to keep the Shia propped up by those Neocon geniouses from having ties to Iran or becoming "puppets"?

    [ Parent ]
    That Is The Weirdest THing (none / 0) (#208)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 12:38:49 PM EST
    Hakim and his party ISCI has very close ties to Iran, and there is no secret about it. Yet he is BushCo favorite, wants the US troops to remain and is fiercely fighting al Sadr's Mahdi army in the new push to liquidate them so that they do not sweep the south in the Provincial elections come October. They want the US out of Iraq ASAP, and that means out, no embassies or bases,  until they are invited back by Iraq on Iraqs terms.

    Bush lastest bald face lie is that everyone is being treated fairly in this new Basra initiative meant to stop the 'illegal' militas. Hakim's milita the Badr  brigade is openly fighting along with the Iraq army. This initiative is only meant to wipe out al-Sadr and his Mahdi army, which seems ludicrous to me because the Mahdi army is ever increasing rag tag bunch of Iraqi citizens that grow rather than decrease when attacked by dishonest agendas. You cannot wipe out nationalism but you can flame it and that is just what the US is doing here.

    [ Parent ]

    Glenn Greenwald (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by shoephone on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:19:52 PM EST
    has a fantastic post up called What Can and Can't be Spoken on Television about the U.S. media's need (and ultimate inability) to control all the talking points coming from guest speakers on the Iraq War.

    Oh, and by the way, I think Jeralyn's hair looks great. LOL!

    it seems the media's luv fest (none / 0) (#97)
    by Josey on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 07:01:18 PM EST
    with the Dem horse race distracts from Iraq.


    [ Parent ]
    from Craig Crawford (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:35:04 PM EST
    It is possible that Hillary Rodham Clinton benefited from her "mistake," as she called her recent assertion of once landing in Bosnia under sniper fire.
    Although seemingly embarrassing for her, this episode did serve to provoke repeated airings of video showing Clinton on her trip to Bosnia 12 years ago looking more like a Commander in Chief than like a First Lady. While hardly arriving under a hail of bullets, as she has repeatedly claimed, the video clips do show Clinton in a much grittier setting than anything that might be expected for a purely ceremonial visit.
    Not saying this flap was clearly purposeful. Just saying that the visuals are not entirely bad for Clinton.

    Generally speaking (none / 0) (#77)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 05:17:12 PM EST
    politicians rarely have such devious machinations.  They are far too likely to backfire on you.

    Some photo images don't really negate a constant barrage of "Hillary is a self-promoting liar" memes.

    [ Parent ]

    I've actually heard this from a lot of people... (none / 0) (#81)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:23:32 PM EST
    ...another reaction I've heard is, what's the big deal. Even Obama supporters I know...not enraged blogger types...are kind of wtf about this.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (none / 0) (#84)
    by Steve M on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:26:03 PM EST
    Here's a comment I saw from one of the Obama supporters who are now swarming at mydd (since they have no one to bully at Daily Kos any more):

    This is a devastating week for your girl. She lied about facing SNIPER FIRE. That's probably one of the most despicable lies I can think of - especially when we have troops in battle right now.

    Even on the blogs I rarely see comments as clearly over-the-top as this.

    [ Parent ]

    Numbers help (none / 0) (#86)
    by waldenpond on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:31:23 PM EST
    I think when someone post a 15 point list of the sins Clinton has perpetrated... cried before every make or break moment, calls her a liar and a pretender... when someone trots out those kinds of numbers and statements, I think they have gone over the top.  sheesh.

    [ Parent ]
    Great video in Bosnia (none / 0) (#82)
    by Prabhata on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:25:05 PM EST
    The photo images help because reporter on the video I saw stated that the area she was visiting was dangerous and that the president was not able to visit that same area because it was too dangerous.

    [ Parent ]
    I guess (none / 0) (#92)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:41:58 PM EST
    I doubt most people care all that much.

    [ Parent ]
    caught chelsea clinton (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by cpinva on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:53:33 PM EST
    on the news last night, briefly. oh my goodness, the girl has grown into a fine young lady! whatever else you may think of the clintons, they did an excellent job with her (give the obamas their due, they have cute kids), and have every reason to be proud of her. if my daughter turns out anywhere close to that, i'll die a happy daddy!

    read the althouse post, read the "very moving story" by the "35 year-old black man", wasn't moved. ok, i was when my butt got uncomfortable in my chair. aside from that, no.

    some of those posters there are true nutjobs.

    btw, for those who forgot, obama's family wasn't brought here in chains as slaves, they came here to get a college degree.  

    as regards rush's "dittohead" fans, bear in mind, they think he's actually a journalist of some sort, a seasoned, trained, experienced analyst. he's just another college dropout, who found a niche audience of dingbats. dingbats who wouldn't vote for jesus christ if he showed up as the democratic nominee.

    He seems to think we forced McCain on them.

    well.............yeah, we did. we refuse to let dead people run for president (although, if you think about it, it would make the secret service's job a lot easier!), and insist on adhering to the 22nd amendment, so reagan couldn't run this time.

    Oh yeah, and comb your hair, for God's sake.

    hey, i think you're a hottie, uncombed hair or not! :)

    Obama has never claimed his family was slaves. (none / 0) (#100)
    by halstoon on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 07:22:03 PM EST
    He did, however, note that his wife carries the blood of slaves and slave holders in her. Care to deny what he actually said?

    [ Parent ]
    His mother descended from slaves? (none / 0) (#118)
    by Cream City on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:02:53 PM EST
    So his heritage is more than 50% African?  Link or source or something, as that is fascinating, and I never heard that.  (I had read about his mother's heritage including slaveholders.)

    [ Parent ]
    Hey Cream. (none / 0) (#180)
    by halstoon on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:21:56 PM EST
    Once again, you have misread my statement. What I said was Obama never claimed his family was slaves. I said nothing about his blood and slaveholders. I would not be surprised that any white American has a slave holder in their family tree, but I don't know. Can you cite your source?

    What I said is that Michelle Obama carries the blood of both slaves and slave holders. I didn't even mention Obama's mother.

    Maybe your eyes are tired. Nice to hear from you again, though.

    [ Parent ]

    Ah, got it -- (none / 0) (#191)
    by Cream City on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:26:58 AM EST
    I see it now.  (TL comes up in really tiny type; you got it.)  Interesting that there are slaveholders on both sides -- yes, it was shockingly widespread (and well beyond the South for too long a time, as too many forget in thinking only of slavery's last era).

    [ Parent ]
    When you consider the revelations that came (none / 0) (#192)
    by halstoon on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:33:59 AM EST
    out this week about the genealogical histories of the 3 candidates, I would guess that if you go back far enough, we all probably have a butcher, a baker, and a candlestick maker in our family histories. ;o)

    [ Parent ]
    I thought (none / 0) (#194)
    by kayla on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 08:12:11 AM EST
    It was common knowledge that most black people have ancestors who were slave owners.  I remember looking up my family history and my great great grandfather was a slave owner in Mississippi.  Heh, I wasn't surprised.  My grandfather could pass for white.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh, (none / 0) (#195)
    by kayla on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 08:14:56 AM EST
    That comment might be too much about race.  Sorry, if it is.

    [ Parent ]
    That is just bizarre. His FATHER's (none / 0) (#188)
    by MarkL on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:43:09 PM EST
    family is descended from slaveowners in Africa.
    Obama is one weird dude.

    [ Parent ]
    Who said his father's family (none / 0) (#190)
    by halstoon on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:02:39 AM EST
    is descended from slave owners? Are you saying that?

    [ Parent ]
    I posted what Obama supporters are saying (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Josey on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:47:38 PM EST
    And your response is my point - anti-Hillary diaries are often based on non-stories but provides Obama supporters opportunities to bash Hillary.
    Thanks for responding.

    I'm sure you don't mean to say that (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:58:08 PM EST
    anti-Obama scribblings aren't often also based on their fair share of non-stories as well, right?

    Of many, this one probably takes the cake for me...

    And then there's the matter of Obama wrongfully deducting a contribution and having to file an amended return:

    The 2006 return also show a charitable deduction for a $13,000 donation to the Congressional Black Caucus. It is illegal to deduct political contributions as charitable contributions. The campaign said Mr. Obama had filed an amended return to eliminate that item as a deduction.

    Obama's accountant made a mistake on Obama's return, I've been in the same situation.

    Very much a "matter."

    Not.

    [ Parent ]

    yes - (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Josey on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:38:33 PM EST
    but there's a difference in sharing info and writing a whole diary on a non-story - followed by 500 anti-Obama comments that aren't related to a CPA error.
    Peace

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by badger on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:55:40 PM EST
    You'd have to be a lawyer (or married to one) to catch a mistake like that.

    [ Parent ]
    if sen. obama's cpa made that (none / 0) (#182)
    by cpinva on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:28:48 PM EST
    "error", he should have his license lifted. full disclosure: i'm a cpa, and my area of expertise is federal tax law. i practice and teach it.

    considering how minimal the returns were, missing something that glaring is beyond embarrassing, it borders almost on professional negligence.

    had we been talking about some complex tax shelter, i might perhaps be a tad more charitable (semi-pun intended), we aren't, we're talking very basic tax law 101. a quick swing through IRC 170 would have cleared that right up.

    as well, both sen. obama and his wife are well educated lawyers, required to take at least 3 hours of tax law. they both should have known better.

    [ Parent ]

    I agree totally (none / 0) (#203)
    by tree on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 11:16:30 AM EST
    about the stupidity of a cpa listing a political contribution as a charitable one. Full disclosure, I'm NOT a cpa, just someone who's done her own taxes for years. It was an idiotic mistake for anyone to make. The Obamas need to get a new cpa pronto.

    That said, as a political story, it means nothing. Just more chaff.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama Just Wants to "Be Left Alone" (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:06:50 PM EST
    Obama Just Wants to "Be Left Alone"

    Interesting CNN video interview with Obama who talks briefly, and tersely, about being on vacation because he's "just trying to be left alone". First Garbo, then Britney and now Barack. All in the wrong line of work, for people who want to be left alone.

    I think he would have gotten better (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:31:08 PM EST
    PR renting a cabin in a U.S. national park.

    [ Parent ]
    Doh (none / 0) (#70)
    by diplomatic on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 04:09:11 PM EST
    And El Yunque in Puerto Rico was right next door...   Go P.R. for good PR !

    [ Parent ]
    I'm rather shocked Jeralyn isn't (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:32:07 PM EST
    blogging from the dentist's office. Where is her commitment to TL?

    "Most of the day" at the dentist (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Cream City on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 04:34:00 PM EST
    sent me into major sympathy mode.  Sounds awful, Jeralyn.  Hope it all went well -- and that, if needed, you enjoyed massive pain meds.

    [ Parent ]
    thanks and (none / 0) (#184)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:35:18 PM EST
    I'm fine. My dentist is in Boulder so that adds 1.5 hours to the 2 hours in the chair. My dentist had a new toy today...sunglasses through which you watch movies on an ipod. It was pretty cool and definitely a pain-distraction. I get to do it again next Weds., then I'm done.

    [ Parent ]
    I believe she's back. (none / 0) (#65)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:43:12 PM EST
    Seconds ago I tried to repond to a recent comment and it was deleted before I could click "post."

    [ Parent ]
    Gravel leaving the Democratic party... (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:31:30 PM EST
    ...to become a libertarian. Shocking!!!

    Ben Masel, what say you? (none / 0) (#109)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 07:42:20 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Interesting radio piece (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by akaEloise on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:32:24 PM EST
    on "The World" -- an interview with a reporter from Der Spiegel who interviewed "Curveball".  http://www.theworld.org/?q=node/16899

    Democratic Party (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by countme on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 07:51:51 PM EST
    In the 2000 election I spoke endlessly to my parents about voting democratic instead of republican.  After many discussions, the question that became definitive was "How can you support a party and a candidate that does not support you?"  These words have come back to haunt me in this primary.  With the actions of the DNC in disenfranching MI and FL, the sexist and racist comments carelessly thrown about and charged, I have come to question whether or not the democratic party is representative of my views.  The democratic party should be worried about losing members.  I am not just a person that votes every election but one that canvases neighborhoods, calls, holds meetings etc...  I am a Hillary supporter and feel that my party no longer refelcts my views.

    Just what I said to the Dem Party (none / 0) (#120)
    by Cream City on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:12:58 PM EST
    when its state branch called tonight for me to be a "neighborhood leader" -- and donor -- again.

    I said I was continuing to work for Dem candidates but would not do so for the Dem Party again, because the leaders did not stand up to the sexism in this campaign -- and because of its disenfranchising of two states.  The guy hemmed and hawed.  

    Then I added a few choice things about Dean and especially about Brazile -- and the guy agreed.

    [ Parent ]

    Good To Know (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by countme on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:25:16 PM EST
    I thought I was the only one who felt this way.

    [ Parent ]
    Jamie Rubin video (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:29:51 PM EST
    Have others seen this

    ...Wow...made my day.  Andrea Mitchel, whack, Maureen Dowd whack...

    Bravo Jamie.   Where was he hiding all this time?

    Fix da link (none / 0) (#137)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:42:24 PM EST
    n/t.

    [ Parent ]
    fix (none / 0) (#138)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:47:17 PM EST
    link

    [ Parent ]
    Thank you (none / 0) (#143)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:05:46 PM EST
    I suppose it's supposed to be a race-free open thread.

    So I'll say Thanks and leave it at that.

    Great answers.


    [ Parent ]

    What, What, What (none / 0) (#140)
    by waldenpond on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:51:10 PM EST
    What was it?  Link didn't work.  Thanks.

    [ Parent ]
    Wow (none / 0) (#142)
    by Steve M on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:59:50 PM EST
    He is an effective spokesman.

    [ Parent ]
    John McCain (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by countme on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:24:39 PM EST
    Some people here believe that McCain would be easy to beat. He won't be.  The msm love McCain.  He is a war hero.  He has a proven record of working with democrats against his own party.  He has a reputation of "doing what is right" even if it is not popular.  Many believe he has integrity.  His nomination may be significant in that it may show that the republicans have been able to break free from the religious right.  So it is time to recognize that Senator McCain will not be viewed by many many american as McSame.

    Glad to see someone recognize this (none / 0) (#150)
    by RalphB on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:30:38 PM EST
    When I see supposed democrats talk about how easy McCain will be to beat because he's old.  Or how he'll look bad debating Obama.  I want to scream.  Have they no real world experience?  It's ludicrous.


    [ Parent ]
    DNC/Obama/Dean/Brazile (none / 0) (#168)
    by countme on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:55:39 PM EST
    IMO the DNC pushing Obama is an unwise tactic.  The republicans may be carefully extricating themselves from the stanglehold of the religious right to move more towards the center (not on all issues but some) while the democrats are abandoning the middle in favor of the extreme left. This leaves the majority of americans left out.  This makes McCain the more attractive candidate to many americans. I recognize it but will the DNC, Dean, Brazile and Obama recognize it before its too late?

    [ Parent ]
    O.k, this is big! (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by NJDem on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:54:46 PM EST
    HRC just laid it down and dared the DNC to not seat FL and MI--'tell them they don't matter three months before November'.  She said no Dem can be legitimate w/o them--it was like when she said "meet me in Ohio" to BO, but "meet me in Denver."  

    The video [Greta on Fox (yes I know)] has to be a thread--BDT!  This was the fight in her you wanted to see.  

    Please and thank you :)

    Yep, she called the bluff (none / 0) (#169)
    by diplomatic on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:02:31 PM EST
    Hillary has the upper hand on FL/MI and she seems to know it.  Her comments clearly indicated she  will fight for the votes to count one way or the other, even if she has to go to the convention.  That's what it sounded like to me and I am glad.

    [ Parent ]
    No Democrat can win in November (none / 0) (#171)
    by RalphB on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:06:51 PM EST
    with MI/FL.  I think that was the major quote.


    [ Parent ]
    without! (none / 0) (#176)
    by diplomatic on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:20:58 PM EST
    Taylor Marsh has the video clip of this whole segment... I like her attitude.

    [ Parent ]
    Why we need (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by PlayInPeoria on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:04:32 PM EST
    to UNITE for the Dem nominee.

    While many may be hesitant to vote for the "other candidate"... the real goal is to have a person in the WH that will do the best for our country.

    The real issue for every one of us is theeconomy

    Let me give you three numbers that will put this economic asteroid into perspective: $200 billion, $14.1 trillion, and $53 trillion.

    $200 billion is the approximate total amount of write-downs announced so far as a result of the current credit crisis.

    $14.1 trillion is the size of the entire U.S. economy.

    And $53 trillion is (drum roll please) the approximate size of this country's bill for the Social Security and Medicare promises we've made.

    I've seen John McCain's Economic Plan.... I'm scared!

    But it is NOT just the Ecomonic Plans that will effect out nation... Health Care, Energy,... will also impact out life. American needs a package that can get us out of this mess.

    Vote Dem!!

    John McCain (none / 0) (#1)
    by CST on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:42:34 AM EST
    I wish he was in the news more.  He seems to be messing up all over the place with his "senior moments" about national security.  Does anyone really think this man can win the general election?  If it comes to any debate over the economy, he is toast.

    he's a media darling (none / 0) (#18)
    by diplomatic on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:22:25 PM EST
    The press has been treating him like this for years.

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe (none / 0) (#20)
    by CST on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:25:07 PM EST
    Although the coverage I've seen of him this year hasn't been very positive (besides the BBQ thing).  Mainly he just hasn't been in the news at all.   Most of the time he makes it in it's by messing up.  I just wish we could have more posts on these types of things.  The democratic infighting is killing me, I'll vote for either of them.

    [ Parent ]
    the more he puts his foot in his mouth (none / 0) (#23)
    by thereyougo on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:49:32 PM EST
    the better for the Dem nominee.

    There will be less work ahead.
    He's organically unfit to lead.

    firedoglake has a great piece by a doctor.
    everyone should read.

    His past illnesses and pow service have taken a toll on him.

    Jeralyn, there are some weird folks out there. Rush and GOP can break the rule of law and they just gloss over it. When someone calls them on it the knives come out. Those are the Rush listeners.

    [ Parent ]

    jesus (none / 0) (#193)
    by english teacher on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:04:16 AM EST
    will you never learn?

    did you see gore debate bush?

    did you see kerry debate bush?

    if you have learned anything by now it should be that the media will always spin the debates for the republican no matter how badly they are made to look.  please get over this fantasy that obama will beat mccain based on debates.  get over it now.  

    [ Parent ]

    I Just Heard (none / 0) (#2)
    by flashman on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:56:16 AM EST
    from a severly conservative friend that Dennis Miller was trashing the appearance of Bill Richardson during the announcement of his support for Obama.  Apparently, Miller was saying Richardson looked fat, tired, sick and rediculous in her beard.  That is what passes for political analysis on the right.

    This is going to be a very, very ugly year.

    I mean.... (none / 0) (#3)
    by flashman on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:57:03 AM EST
    her beard=his beard.  Sorry.

    [ Parent ]
    I have only seen very small bits (none / 0) (#13)
    by zyx on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:18:32 PM EST
    of Dennis Miller on the teevee--don't watch much teevee to begin with, and I never was in the market of his several shows.  But I just read about him in James Wolcott's "Attack Poodles".  Miller gets an entire chapter ("The Miller's Tale").

    No matter what is going on in the world, this guy is going to be a bottom feeder.  I can't express it like Wolcott, of course.  Snag the book and read that chapter.  It's putrid and horrifying, but the guy is such an inept clown that it is pretty funny, too.

    [ Parent ]

    He hosts some very crappy gameshow (none / 0) (#15)
    by diplomatic on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:21:33 PM EST
    I was flipping through the channels one day and there he was trying to be the next Howie Mandel.

    It seemed like a horrible concept, starting with the choice of host.

    [ Parent ]

    The really funny thing about Dennis Miller (none / 0) (#19)
    by FlaDemFem on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:24:58 PM EST
    is that until he got married and had kids, he was a gung-ho Democrat. Apparently, having children causes some people's brains to leak out their ears. He used to really rag on the Repugs back in the day. I would love to get some of those old clips and run them next to his present day rants. It would totally gut his credibility as a political commentator. And back then he was a lot funnier, too.

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe he married a wingnut... (none / 0) (#83)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:25:14 PM EST
    ...it happens.

    [ Parent ]
    I believe (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Steve M on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:28:34 PM EST
    it was because of 9/11.  Some people really did have a bed-wetting episode and come to the belief that only the big strong Republicans can keep us safe.

    Speaking of which, great column by Harold Meyerson in today's WaPo:

    It is 3 a.m., and the stillness of the White House night is shattered by the ringing of the red phone. President John McCain, rousing himself from a deep sleep, turns on the light and picks up the receiver. A U.S. embassy in a Middle Eastern country, he is told, has been blown up, and al-Qaeda is taking credit.

    McCain takes a deep breath. "Character counts, my friend," he says. "Bomb Iran. Bomb, bomb Iran."

    There is a rustling of blankets, and, brushing aside Cindy McCain, a concerned Joe Lieberman rises from the bed. "Not Iran, Mr. President," he says. "They hate al-Qaeda."

    "That's right," the president says. "I remember now." He sighs with relief. "Good thing you're here every night, Joe."

    But suppose, dear reader, that John McCain becomes president and Joe Lieberman doesn't bunk with the McCains on a nightly basis. How easily should the rest of us sleep? It's anything but an academic question after McCain's bizarre performance in Jordan last week.



    [ Parent ]
    Actually (none / 0) (#151)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:31:53 PM EST
    it would be a good deed either way.

    [ Parent ]
    Well (none / 0) (#160)
    by Steve M on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:40:02 PM EST
    recent events have taught some of us the lesson that taking out bad guys isn't necessarily worth the price.

    [ Parent ]
    He actually said... (none / 0) (#106)
    by Raheem on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 07:36:05 PM EST
    He was always a little on the right... but did not turn into the neo con he is today until after 9/11

    makes sense since he is from Western Pennsylvania

    [ Parent ]

    Just caught Chelsea's comment (none / 0) (#4)
    by suisser on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:59:25 AM EST
    re ML. Loved it! Honest human being speaking, "May I have some more, please?"

    Chelsea In 2032! (none / 0) (#5)
    by flashman on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:05:55 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    This story on aol claims questioner was... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:13:43 PM EST
    ...a Hillary supporter who appeared all concern troll on the CBS morning show this am talking about what an opportunity Chelsea missed to defend her mother. Who buys it? No way this guy was a Clinton supporter.

    link

    [ Parent ]

    Yeah, on CNN too (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by waldenpond on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:21:52 PM EST
    The questioner and a friend were on CNN part deux.  He was disappointed she didn't take the opportunity to discuss an issue and was dismissive of his question.  His sincerity was underwhelming.

    [ Parent ]
    My spouse, an ardent Obama supporter... (none / 0) (#21)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:34:18 PM EST
    ..has vowed to stop watching cable news because he can't stand the bashing. Having raised our kids in DC, we always looked at Chelsea as if she was somehow our own kid. I feel that the earnest Chelsea bashing will now begin and it is a huge mistake. My husband was never a Clinton hater and I think he is starting to wonder at what cost comes his support for Team Obama. I don't think it will change his mind, but at least I don't feel like such a crazy shrew when I see it gets to him too.

    [ Parent ]
    she should've told them all to (none / 0) (#26)
    by thereyougo on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:57:18 PM EST
    go to hell and that would have ended it.

    GD em. vicious, classless media.

    Ann Althouse site talks about the caucus her son went to in Tex. A great and very moving story was posted by a 35 YO very educated blackman talking about Obama's decision to stay in the same church. In few words, it aint easy.

    [ Parent ]

    Chelsea was great (none / 0) (#40)
    by riddlerandy on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:00:52 PM EST
    poise, intelligence and class

    [ Parent ]
    I don't get it... (none / 0) (#43)
    by kredwyn on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:30:52 PM EST
    Why on earth would HRC's credibility be damaged because of her husband's affair?
    "Wit has truth in it; wisecracking is simply calisthenics with words." Dorothy Parker
    [ Parent ]
    no earthly reason it should. oh wait, I forgot... (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by irene adler on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 04:02:13 PM EST
    women are the ones who have complete and total responsibility for men's behavior. how could I have forgotten that?

    it's why michelle obama's barb about HRC,'if you can't run your own house you certainly can't run the White House' bugged the cr*p out of me and still does.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm thinking perhaps Michelle Obama (none / 0) (#104)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 07:30:54 PM EST
    listens to Dr. Laura, who opined Ms. Spitzer was the cause of her husband's hiring the call girl.

    [ Parent ]
    MIchele really said that?? about the gov.'s wife?? (none / 0) (#107)
    by athyrio on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 07:37:55 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Michelle spoke about Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by waldenpond on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:14:47 PM EST
    the 'if you can't take care of your own house' comment was in reference to Hillary Clinton not be able to control Bill.

    BTW Michelle apparently has a new comment... she was speaking about people not mixing when living in diverse communities.....  and ended with "That's America"  It is now on MSNBC.  

    [ Parent ]

    No. Dr. Laura was interviewed (none / 0) (#119)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:03:04 PM EST
    and she attributed men's infidelity to their wives's failings.  The interview was just after the Spitzer story hit the news.  

    [ Parent ]
    I hate when women say that about other women... (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:28:54 PM EST
    ...it's so Jerry Springer.

    [ Parent ]
    I've suspected (none / 0) (#201)
    by jondee on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 10:49:43 AM EST
    for a while now that Dr. Laura is just a hard right cross dresser with a serious authoritarian complex.

    [ Parent ]
    Not a Michelle fan (none / 0) (#132)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:33:53 PM EST
    I saw this clip a while ago.  I don't think she was referring to Hillary.  It was one of those, what a great family the Obama's are.  I gave her the benefit of the doubt, cause it was one of those "family boosterism" events last summer.  

    [ Parent ]
    Well (none / 0) (#136)
    by Steve M on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:39:02 PM EST
    I gave her the benefit of the doubt at first, but I've seen clips of her using the line in contexts that aren't nearly as excusable.  And the fact that she kept on using it after it became a source of controversy is pretty telling, in my book.

    I guess the thinking is that "plausible deniability" is good enough.

    [ Parent ]

    whoopee for Michelle (none / 0) (#133)
    by zyx on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:34:22 PM EST
    but really, suppose that tomorrow she found out that Mr. Perfect had an affair last year?  The odds are such that it's not that unlikely that he did, in a random way.  So what would SHE do?  Doesn't it depend on your overall relationship to your spouse, really?  I mean, twenty years of togetherness and friendship and the kids and whether you really get along and like each others' company?  That, and yes, sex issues too, and forgiveness issues--a different mix for everyone, I'm sure.  But I think it's just really dumb to say "she should have left him" or whatever, in that binary way we have.  In fact, the ENTIRE (public) Lewinsky flap showed how what astounding levels of public stupidity we Americans have.  It made me cringe then and it makes me cringe when anyone brings it up now.  MYOB already!

    [ Parent ]
    Shouldn't that be (none / 0) (#12)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:16:27 PM EST