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Why The Obama/Clinton Rules Led Us To This Rough Campaign

By Big Tent Democrat

Speaking for me only

When the Media and the Left blogs deplore the negativity of the Democratic presidential campaign, especially from the Clinton campaign, they ignore that they are a major reason why it has happened. Why? Because they attack the Clinton campaign no matter what it does while ignoring or defending every negative attack and questionable tactic of the Obama campaign.

The examples are legion. There is not an ounce of doubt that it was the campaigns challenging Hillary Clinton last fall that first engaged in negative attacks. The Media and some of the Left blogs were imploring the Barack Obama campaign to do that and certainly not a single word of reproach was written about it.

Led by Tim Russert and Brian Williams in the October 2007 debate, and followed eagerly by the entire NBC network and many Left blogs, the attacks on Hillary Clinton, especially on her character, were applauded on a daily basis. More.

I criticized the character attacks and dirty politics. I was quite alone in this at the time. (I dropped my endorsement of Chris Dodd as a result.) And Clinton suffered because of these personal attacks against her. To wit, Barack Obama was rewarded for his dirty politics last Fall.

The Obama/Clinton rules were in full flower in the run up to New Hampshire. The Media and some Left blogs led the charge - cheeering negative attacks on Clinton, attacking and distorting the Clinton campaign's responses and attacking her for trumped charges of negative campaigning. They were ready to dance on Hillary Clinton's political grave.

Since then the rules have been locked in. No matter what happens or is said - to NBC and to some Left blogs, Hillary is evil and Obama is without sin. The coverage of the Nevada at large district issue led to the most ludicrous charges of "disenfranchisement" from the Media and some Left bloggers.

Then, expecting Clinton to be knocked out in Texas, NBC and some Left blogs were bitterly disappointed and argued Clinton should drop out even though she won both Ohio and Texas (some even float the idea that the Texas caucus results were the true contest in Texas, rather than what they were - proof positive that caucuses disenfranchise voters.)

Indeed, disenfranchisement now becomes the key guiding principle of some Obama supporters - they support it at every turn. My own personal anger is tied up in the attitudes about the Michigan and Florida revotes. Everyone knows that Barack Obama blocked revotes in Florida and Michigan. No one outside of Michigan and Florida seems to care.

Let me put it bluntly, the dirtiest politics practiced in this campaign was Barack Obama's blocking of the Michigan and Florida revotes. There is nothing uglier in politics, nothing dirtier, than blocking voters' chances to vote. The stain on Barack Obama for this will not wash away with me. (BTW, I am not saying Clinton would not have done the same thing, I THINK she would have. But she did not.) Especially since I believe it would have helped Obama in the general election.

The Clinton campaign realizes that no matter what they do, they will be declared evil. They realize that no matter what Obama does, he will be declared a saint. In such an environment, both the Clinton campaign and the Obama campaign will feel no restraint to their behavior.

The Media and some of the Left blogs have created this climate. Pols are pols and do what they do. I expect nothing else from them. I once expected honest assessments from some in the Media and from most in the Left blogs. I no longer do. Clearly neither do the campaigns.

If the headlines and coverage do not change no matter what is done by the campaigns, then you can not expect the headlines and coverage to matter to the campaigns in terms of tactics. For all those in the Media and in the Left blogs deploring the negativity of the campaign, I suggest they look in the mirror for the main culprits.

NOTE - Comments closed.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Exactly (5.00 / 10) (#1)
    by lepidus on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:37:24 AM EST
    Thanks, this is the most concise and well-stated explanation of this issue that I've seen. I've been trying to explain this to friends of mine on both sides, and while I've had success, your words here should make it a lot easier.

    Observers Should Know (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by flashman on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:46:29 AM EST
    how the media has been sucking up to Obama in this campaign, especially NBC.  I almost can't watch the news anymore, because of the nauseating slant represented by the news organizations.  On an emotional level, I have begun to want to see BO lose, because I don't like it when cheaters win.  Not that I totally blame him for the slanted coverage, but because I hate the idea that those who have been so blatantly dishonest in presenting their narratives might win to the detriment of honesty and fairness in the public arena.  

    The national news organizations have been deemed the "4th Estate of Government."  They should be held to the same standards of honesty as any of the other 3.


    [ Parent ]

    cheating? (1.25 / 4) (#172)
    by shaharazade on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:06:06 AM EST
    Both MI and FL broke the rules. They were told of the consequences and proceeded anyway. Hillary  also ignored the rules, and now wants a redo as she's losing. I understood that the state legislature put the kibosh on a new primary because of the legeal problems involved.

    [ Parent ]
    Waht rules? (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by flashman on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:15:15 AM EST
    Hillary  also ignored the rules

    What rules did Hillary ignor?

    Hillary wants the voters in Fl. and Mi. to have a voice.  Yes, rules were broken, but in a very close race, those voters are important, as they will be in Novermber.  She has broken no rules by her efforts to enfranchise all of the voters.  Rather, she suggested the rules change so that all votes get counted.

    BTW, the thread is about media coverage, and we've gone off-topic.

    [ Parent ]

    Ther states put the kibosh (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:28:38 AM EST
    because Obama BLOCKED the revotes.

    [ Parent ]
    Agree and disagree (none / 0) (#138)
    by Claw on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:48:23 AM EST
    You're dead on that blocking the vote in MI and being of absolutely no help in FLA constitutes the dirtiest kind of politics.  And I agree with you that the revotes would have helped him in a GE.  I do think Obama's sainthood sheen has worn off, though.  The media LOVES the rev. Wright clips and for obvious, if not good, reason.  You don't have to work as hard or engage in actual journalism if you've got clips of a crazy pastor to play.
    No doubt Hillary gets much less favorable press coverage. We all (should) know that...but Obama isn't getting a free pass anymore.

    [ Parent ]
    But, only on ... (5.00 / 2) (#210)
    by alexei on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:05:33 PM EST
    the Rev Wright issue does he get any bad press.  And even on that issue, I haven't seen or heard the MSM talk about Obama's lies and on what he heard the Rev say.

    [ Parent ]
    Eh (none / 0) (#223)
    by Claw on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:12:57 PM EST
    I don't think so.  Like I said, Hillary gets much, much worse coverage, but I think he gets bad press.  They question his experience, an astonishing number of Americans still think he might be Muslim, Michelle Obama gets plenty of bad press, they question his patriotism (no flag pin!).  You know, I'm not saying Hillary wouldn't kill to get the kind of press Obama gets but I don't think he gets a free pass anymore.  For a while I think he did.  
    And I'm not sure what Obama lies you're referring to, but if you haven't heard/read all the massive speculation about what Obama did/didn't hear you must not be watching T.V. or reading any newspapers.  I don't mean to be snarky, but it's just been everywhere.

    [ Parent ]
    you know (5.00 / 6) (#2)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:38:47 AM EST
    for an Obama supporter you're OK.


    He's among a growing number (5.00 / 4) (#81)
    by blogtopus on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:20:15 AM EST
    Who are 'waking up' to some of the problems with the Campaign coverage.

    Although I give BTD credit for being there from the beginning.

    [ Parent ]

    yes (5.00 / 4) (#92)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:26:26 AM EST
    credit where credit is due.
    big time.

    [ Parent ]
    And beneath the anger, grief (5.00 / 7) (#4)
    by lambert on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:40:52 AM EST
    I remember when we had a media critique. I remember reading vibrant posts from many writers I'd never dream of classifying as "in the tank." No longer. Silly me, not cynical enough.

    Absolutely! (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by nemo52 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:49:21 AM EST
    This entire campaign is making me very sad.  And I started with great hope.  (Not necessarily Obama's kind!)


    [ Parent ]
    Dare I say it: Genius. (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by Jim J on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:45:18 AM EST
    Extremely well-reasoned and well-written analysis. Forgive me for gushing, but I am so happy I found this blog.

    I say it all the time (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:53:56 AM EST
    Finally, someone recognizes my genius . . .

    [ Parent ]
    The Audacity of Survival (5.00 / 4) (#109)
    by Athena on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:34:21 AM EST
    BTD, concise and spot-on.  In such an asymmetric media environment, and with asymmetric rules - what's amazing is that Clinton has done so well, and is gaining momentum.  It's clear that Obama has only managed a close contest despite having structural advantages that should have given him a blowout.

    The rabid anger against Clinton stems from the existence of a well-organized MSM/blog campaign to annihilate her - and the fact that she is still standing.  Dare I say - the "audacity" of survival?

    [ Parent ]

    Yes! That should be a talking point. (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:40:01 AM EST
    "Will do anything" morphs to "fighter"(good quality in a President).

    [ Parent ]
    Tonya Harding (5.00 / 4) (#149)
    by americanincanada on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:52:41 AM EST
    The media also, blindly, that it was Obama who started the Tonya Harding memo so the new reference by an unnamed DNC person obviously came from them.

    LINK

    Obama: Not Going to Pull a Tonya Harding
    December 28, 2007 7:49 AM

    ABC News' Sunlen Miller reports: Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., told a crowd in Vinton, Iowa Thursday that he's not going to pull a Tonya Harding on his rival candidates.

    "Folks said there's no way Obama has a chance unless he goes and kneecaps the person ahead of us, does a Tonya Harding," Obama joked, referring to the female skating champion who conspired to harm a competitor during the 1994 U.S. Figure Skating Championships.

    "We decided that's not the kind of campaign we wanted to run," he said.

    [ Parent ]

    of course, (5.00 / 4) (#204)
    by nemo52 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:45:02 AM EST
    This comment itself of Obama's belies its own subject!

    [ Parent ]
    heh (none / 0) (#20)
    by andgarden on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:56:54 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    BTD gets picked up widely.... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:54:35 AM EST
    ...your analysis is spot on accurate. I tend to over defend my side, as we all do. But given the platform that they have, it is grossly irresponsible behavior on the part of the media. I don't even think that people like Matthews, O'Donnell, and Mitchell  and some of the other shills on NBC are particularly supportive of Obama. Indeed they have never been truly supportive of any Democrats. But they seem to be drunk with power. How else to explain their interference. The only other time I remember hearing an intense media drumbeat for a candidate to concede was in 2000. And we all know how that turned out.

    drunk with power (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by CLancy on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:58:32 AM EST
    is a good way to describe most in the large media outlets. I don't know if NBC is any worse than any other. They are undoubtedly unfair to Clinton, but the same can be said for almost any network/newspaper. It doesn't help that Matthews seems to take particular glee in attacking either Clinton. I have no idea how any one can watch him.

    [ Parent ]
    I've been really bothered by the Today show (5.00 / 4) (#42)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:04:23 AM EST
    ...I don't expect much from the Today Show. It's what comes on my TV to help me wake up in the morning. But the past couple of days they have run some vicious attacks on Clinton and have brought on "experts" (David Brooks???) to act as concern trolls while Lauer says things like, "can we really believe anything she says anymore?" I would really like to know if they have ever asked the Clinton campaign to appear and do a rebuttal of this Bosnia story? Or if they just don't bother anymore. And Lauer implying that Chelsea Clinton was rude in her response to that person who asked her about Lewinsky, oh please. Just oh please.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by Mary Mary on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:07:04 AM EST
    shows like that are the ones to worry about because a lot of people watch them.

    I'm glad, though, to hear that they covered the Chelsea Clinton answer. IMO, it will resonate to the good of the Clinton campaign.

    [ Parent ]

    Good point (none / 0) (#153)
    by Daryl24 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:56:23 AM EST
    I think we're having a pretty good primary fight. Like any campaign some things cross the line but that's politics. Kerry was brutal toward Edwards (the diaper comment?) but he picked him as his running mate. That's they way the play the game.

    But the media has gone off the deep end.
    Don't they think people notice that or do they even care? You'd think MSNBC being one of the lowest rated networks would have figured that out. Instead we get the high school kids reminding us why they don't like Hillary the mean hall monitor.

     

    [ Parent ]

    In that case (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by txchicanoforhillary on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:55:43 AM EST
    HRC should go nuclear on Obama. If they are going to say she's all these horrible things, give them REASON to.  If I were running the Clinton campaign I would give Obama and his supporters a REALLY good reason to be saying and doing what THEY are doing.

    Man, Obama's campaign is SO thin-skinned.  I don't see one strong thing about them.  This is not invective language, just an observation.  It seems they are the eternal victims over there.  Is that a snapshot of what his presidency (God forbid) would be like?  No backbone whatsoever.

    Unfortunately (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:57:02 AM EST
    I think she is going to.

    And I will be criticizing her for it here at Talk Left.

    [ Parent ]

    She can't. (5.00 / 1) (#207)
    by ghost2 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:54:34 AM EST
    Depsite the coverage, she can't go negative.  The media crucifies her at each turn.  Look at how they are covering her simple answer to the Wright question.  Did she get credit when didn't  talk about it? Did the media cover how absolutely disgusting and abhorent it was to equate Ferraro with Wright? No.

    Now, no one in media is putting the actual clip of her trip to Bosnia, and the report at the time.  

    I love Gore, and I was disgusted with the way press treated him in 2000. Perhaps I have forgotten, but this time, it seems far, far worse.


    [ Parent ]

    I know.... (none / 0) (#29)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:59:06 AM EST
    ...While on a personal level I could understand her doing that, it's something I have trouble with from a political perspective. It will just lead to an even bigger GE disaster for whomever.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (none / 0) (#35)
    by Steve M on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:02:05 AM EST
    I notice how readily the blogs have seized upon the "Tonya Harding" soundbite.  Every time Hillary so much as raises her voice from here on out, the Tonya Harding accusations will fly fast and furious.

    I wonder how people would react if some anonymous DNC official speculated that the Obama campaign might take an "OJ Simpson approach" going forward?  Tell me, do you think the blogs would consider that kind of label fair game?

    [ Parent ]

    It's a disgusting talking point (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by andgarden on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:03:47 AM EST
    made worse by the fact that you know they've always felt this way about her.

    [ Parent ]
    You bet they have (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by txchicanoforhillary on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:11:09 AM EST
    The media, the "progressive" bloggers who were conservatives during the Clinton years (Arianna Huffington, Americablog creator) will characterize her as nothing more than an unscrupulous candidate.

    It comes as NO suprise that these blogs hold the views they do of the Clintons.  Yeah, low gas prices, peace, prosperity...Americans HATE those things!  And obviously so did the creators of the aforementioned blogs.  Not very "progressive" in my mind's eye.

    [ Parent ]

    That might explain the disconnect (none / 0) (#170)
    by Daryl24 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:04:18 AM EST
    They just can't believe people like the Clintons.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (none / 0) (#51)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:07:35 AM EST
    Some anonymous DNC official sounds like Donna Brazile to me.

    [ Parent ]
    BTD (none / 0) (#39)
    by txchicanoforhillary on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:03:38 AM EST
    I agree with a lot of your analysis. And I feel that it would be have been better to have stayed on course with respect to issues.  But politics is a knife fight, and we have to have a strong person to come up against the R's.  

    Winners are winners for a reason.  Dirty or not, to the victor, goes the spoils. The R's are better at playing the game than the D's (hence 8 disastrous years of Bushco).

    Critical analysis needs to be out there.  But if and when Clinton goes for the jugular, I won't criticize. I really don't want the Wright ads playing ad nauseum this fall when the new swiftboaters come out against Obama, daggers and all.

    [ Parent ]

    chances. I will state what I think with my main focus being what I think is good for Democrats.

    [ Parent ]
    stay tuned (none / 0) (#50)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:07:20 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    on the other hand its very effective in quelling (none / 0) (#89)
    by dotcommodity on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:24:35 AM EST
    dissent.

    So, if a President Obama were to adopt these same tactics getting the hordes of bottomup talkingpoint spewers in the mediacumblogosphere to go after the global warming deniers and their lobbyists in congress, with the same gusto that they use to hound Hillary we could easily pass the energy bills that Mcain keeps blocking by not voting.

    I know I get his talking points in my daily emails from his campaign, ever since I contacted him to change a coal to liquids vote a year ago.

    He is conducting a brilliant campaign. If only he would use it for good.

    [ Parent ]

    Quelling dissent? (none / 0) (#226)
    by txchicanoforhillary on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:44:07 PM EST
    Wow. I think that was used in Germany back in the 1930s.

    [ Parent ]
    Wow, truth (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by vastleft on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:58:30 AM EST
    I remember that.

    The up is down nature of this campaign (5.00 / 4) (#27)
    by annabelly on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:58:36 AM EST
    is what infuriates me most of all. The O/C rules, the way Obama supporters have to betray things they've believed in for years in order to support him (Remember every vote counts? Or how about intolerance for repugnant politicizing from the pulpit?), and the double standard between the treatment of racism and sexism in this country have dramatically effected my  view of my country, and of Obama himself.

    Good points (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by andgarden on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:59:00 AM EST
    Especially:

    The Clinton campaign realizes that no matter what they do, they will be declared evil. They realize that no matter what Obama does, he will be declared a saint. In such an environment, both the Clinton campaign and the Obama campaign will feel no restraint to their behavior.

    This really concerns me. The two candidates will almost have to play chicken with Democratic chances in November.

    there's a new talking point (5.00 / 5) (#36)
    by Turkana on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:02:21 AM EST
    that the only way for her to win is to tear obama down. the horror! as if those decrying such a possibility haven't been tearing her down, for months.

    what you call "the left blogs" have forfeited all credibility, in the past month. they will never regain it.

    I actually believe (none / 0) (#45)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:05:53 AM EST
    She should not discuss him at all.

    The narrative for Clinton depends on a big win in PA. All she does she be focused on running up the score in PA.

    [ Parent ]

    i'm no fan of negative campaigning (3.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Turkana on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:08:12 AM EST
    and i think she should do her own bus tour. i have a feeling it would be even more successful.

    [ Parent ]
    I heard her Generals are (none / 0) (#104)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:33:02 AM EST
    doing a bus tour.

    [ Parent ]
    she has a ton of resources (1.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Turkana on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:39:27 AM EST
    she can use, in pennsylvania. but she should be going town to town, the way she did in upstate and western new york, when she first ran for senate.

    [ Parent ]
    Here's my worry (none / 0) (#62)
    by andgarden on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:10:37 AM EST
    Do you know how you win big in PA if you've already lost the vast majority of the AA vote?

    I need a hole to crawl into.

    [ Parent ]

    I think Clinton (none / 0) (#69)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:13:40 AM EST
    misunderstands that Wright is out there and that she need not do another thing about it.

    What she needs now is to provide a rationale for voters who do not like Wright but do not want to think of themselves as racists - The Economy should be her issue for the next month.

    [ Parent ]

    And having John Murtha (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by andgarden on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:51:24 AM EST
    be such a good advocate for her does not hurt one bit.

    [ Parent ]
    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by Daryl24 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:17:44 AM EST
    regarding Wright. That story hasn't even gotten started. But if people are uncomfortable with the race part they have no problem voting against him when it comes down to Wright's anti-American statements. That imo is a dealbreaker.

    [ Parent ]
    She's already on the air (none / 0) (#72)
    by andgarden on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:15:42 AM EST
    with her Ohio strategy, which is pretty much as you say.

    What worries me is the potential for a 30 second "god damn America" spot.

    [ Parent ]

    I share your worry (none / 0) (#87)
    by lilburro on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:23:57 AM EST
    BUT I would say that Clinton's few remarks about this suggest she is trying to take the high ground by condemning all hate speech (and presenting herself, of course, as the only one who truly does that...sort of like the Farrakhan moment in the debate) and lumping Wright into that.  Thus, I would think it unlikely that she would replay his 'hate speech' in an advertisement (exposing the speech to the American public again).  To me that wouldn't tally with her line.

    [ Parent ]
    I wish she had said nothing (none / 0) (#95)
    by andgarden on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:28:45 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I don't agree with that ... (5.00 / 4) (#146)
    by gmo on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:51:38 AM EST
    ...isn't saying nothing tantamount to being complicit in hate speech?   I think she said the bare minimum necessary.  

    [ Parent ]
    I strongly disagree. She answered (5.00 / 2) (#221)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:04:23 PM EST
    a question in a judicious manner.  Of course, the media immed. trumpeted that she "resurrected" the Wright issue, even though obama spoke of it the same day to the media.  Which I guess just proves BTD's point.

    [ Parent ]
    Don't think that's insurmountable (none / 0) (#111)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:34:59 AM EST
    in PA. Also, AA Mayor of Philly backs her.

    [ Parent ]
    I know, and it doesn't matter (none / 0) (#116)
    by andgarden on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:37:29 AM EST
    Obama will walk away with 90% of the black vote. Nutter can help Hillary with white liberals in Philly and the near suburbs.

    [ Parent ]
    A new Public Policy Polling survey (none / 0) (#193)
    by Daryl24 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:30:33 AM EST
    In Pennsylvania

    Key findings: "Some of the lead is attributable to Clinton racking up large leads in her key demographics, such as a 66-20 advantage with female voters. But she's holding Obama down with his key groups. He is only at 63% with black voters in the poll, a percentage much smaller than what he has been getting in most states.
    "

    That's very bad considering he was getting roughly 90% in most places. If Hillary cuts into that any further, Obama will look back at his loss in Ohio with fond memories.

    [ Parent ]

    PPP is not a reliable pollster yet IMO (none / 0) (#198)
    by andgarden on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:37:36 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Absolutely. (none / 0) (#90)
    by Fabian on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:24:49 AM EST
    It's hard not to respond, but unless it's necessary to respond on a substantive and significant issue, I vote that Hillary say nothing about Obama except carefully worded platitudes.  

    Better not to invite attack than to become a reliable source for the next cable news sound bites.    She'd be baited at every opportunity just to see what she would say about Obama this time.

    [ Parent ]

    Here's (5.00 / 3) (#101)
    by Mary Mary on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:31:46 AM EST
    my take on Hillary's answer. It was perfect. And I hope they play it over and over and over again. Why?
    Because IMO that's exactly what the average voter would think when exposed to the Wright clips.

    Someone here wrote a two-line post about the Rs tying Wright around all Dem candidates' necks this fall and that person was absolutely correct. I wished for 100's of fives to bestow on that post.

    Hillary's answer was the first salvo in what all Dem candidates are going to have to be doing in the general election if Obama is the Pres nominee.

    [ Parent ]

    consider the difficulty of doing that: (none / 0) (#98)
    by dotcommodity on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:31:08 AM EST
    all day, every day, sunup to sundown, reporters dogging her to get the daily comment to get mangled...how would any human being manage to say nothing?

    Or even when for one day they do succeed, then reporters will capture some comment that will be somehow construed as about him, like Bills wish that presidential campaigns could be about issues, and of course it can be construed negatively.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama is just following Karl Rove's advice (5.00 / 4) (#53)
    by myiq2xu on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:08:09 AM EST
    Rove laid it out for him in a Dec. 2nd, 2007 column in Newsweek.  From Earl Ofari Hutchinson:

    In an open memo which got almost no media play and zilch public attention last December, Rove spit out six things Obama should do to zap Clinton.

    Obama has followed the script to the letter. He's unleashed an all-out no holds barred attack on Clinton's personality, record, and demeanor, and even tossed in some blatant racial digs at her and hubby Bill for supposedly demeaning Dr. King, Jesse Jackson, and of course himself. He's made bold, brash, and loud pitches and promises to do everything from end the war to clean up the economy. This fulfills Rove's admonition to him to stop sounding wishy-washy on the big ticket issues and create an aura and persona of confidence, expertise, and even invincibility about himself.

    I always thought I smelled the stench of Turdblossom in the Obot attacks.

    Turdblossom's rule number 1 (5.00 / 7) (#85)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:23:35 AM EST
    and most successful tactic is to go after your opponent on his/her strengths.  With Kerry, it was his military record.

    With Clinton, it was her and her husband's strong civil rights record and consequent support in the African-American community.  The racism charges are no accident.  What must have suprised even Axelrod is how easily they stuck.

    [ Parent ]

    And why? (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by Foxx on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:12:54 AM EST
    Thank you. I hope this is widely circulated.

    The remaining question is Why? Why this relentless hostility, self-righteousness, hypocrisy, loss of objectivity on the part of so many?

    Given the content of a lot of the attacks, I've had to conclude it is because Hillary is a woman. Many men are angry that she would dare, and many women are afraid that anger will spill over onto them.

    How's about this (none / 0) (#132)
    by po on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:43:42 AM EST
    It ain't because she's a woman.  Who cares if she's a woman? not me.  Some do I'm sure, but that's life and I'm willing to bet it less than the number who have issues with a black man, especially now with Wright out there.  

    Perhaps it's because she's married to Bill Clinton.  Great guy, voted for him twice.  Thought he did a good job with what he had to work with.   But we did 8 years of Clinton before we did 8 years of Bush and Clinton's last 4 years weren't all that great because he put himself in the position he did and we all payed for it.  And just like I hate waking up in the morning to NPR and the Israeli-Palestinian fubar that will (apparently) never end, so too will i detest waking up and hearing about all those old scandals made new again and the new scandals that will surely arise.  It's time to move on, past the 20th century, into the 21st, and her star is tied too far to the past.  it's got very little to do with "hate" per se; just a weariness and fatigue.

    And what are men supposedly so afraid of that Hillary would "dare" -- to run for office?  No, most everyone saw that coming the day the she won her Senate seat.

    [ Parent ]

    Do you really think that... (5.00 / 2) (#216)
    by alexei on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:29:05 PM EST
    the Rev Wright will go away if Obama happens to get by McCain (which I seriously doubt)?  I know I've tuned out all the Clinton "scandals" of the '90's and have real nostalgia for that "peace and prosperity".

    [ Parent ]
    Seriously (5.00 / 2) (#218)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:37:58 PM EST
    The "scandals" of the Clinton years were mostly fake, fakey, fakesters created by the Republicans and pushed by breathless reporters (see David Brock's Blinded by the Right).  

    I feel pretty confident that sleazy GOP operatives will have no troubles coming up with similiar re:  Obama.  Rezko will be a start.

    [ Parent ]

    exactly! - more traffic, more revenue (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Josey on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:13:15 AM EST
    >>>The Media and some of the Left blogs have created this climate

    Obama followers admit they're more interested in inspiration not solutions. And pro-Obama blogs have promoted the horse race more than Obama's positions on the issues.
    The media accommodates those seeking "inspiration" by hyping and mischaracterizing a Hillary trip 12 years ago while ignoring her major speech on the Economy.

    That's because (none / 0) (#107)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:33:47 AM EST
    Obama's positions on the issues are ultimately dissappointing to all of those peope.

    The lastest proof of that is Obama saying Welfare may have worsened the lives of black people in his big speech.

    I've been arguing that (because I think it's true) for years amongst progressive only to be vilified.

    See?  Obama and I agree on something.


    [ Parent ]

    I'll say this for Obama, he's got a certain (5.00 / 4) (#154)
    by tigercourse on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:56:29 AM EST
    quality that makes people forget/change many of their core beliefs.

    An example: When Harold Ford attacked equal marriage in New Jersey Kos was very angry. From then on, he didn't care if Ford won. Obama embraced, defended and gave a platform to a guy who believes he can cure homosexuality. Kos swept that under the rug.

    [ Parent ]

    What you are implying about Kos (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:06:39 AM EST
    is sort of off limits on this blog.

    I agree.  I go much further on other blogs.


    [ Parent ]

    The media is picking our candidate (5.00 / 6) (#76)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:17:52 AM EST
    just as they "chose" the Iraq War for us.

    That is a little of why, my knee-jerk is if the media likes it, I automatically don't.

    Media darling status is a negative for me.

    Um, BTD (none / 0) (#108)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:34:10 AM EST
    if media darling status is a negative, then why are you supporting Obama, which you say you're doing primarily because of that media darling status?

    Or are you making a distinction between pure practicality and your frank opinion of the person/campaign?

    [ Parent ]

    That is Teresa's comment (none / 0) (#136)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:46:53 AM EST
    not mine.

    [ Parent ]
    It's still a conundrum for me at least (none / 0) (#167)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:03:22 AM EST
    The juxtaposition of your electability argument, the reason why you say you support Obama, with your contempt for the media creates and interesting dynamic to say the least.

    One could have some negative things to say about that dynamic but you seem like such a great guy in general, why force the issue??

    [ Parent ]

    Oops (none / 0) (#168)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:03:27 AM EST
    Never mind! :-)

    [ Parent ]
    You are on to something (5.00 / 6) (#78)
    by Kahli on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:19:28 AM EST
    On super Tuesday I was so depressed that I had only Obama and Clinton to choose from.  I agonized.  I had worked on Obama's senatorial campaign and had become disenchanted by his actions is Washington and in Illinois.  I wasn't fond of Clinton - her using Mark Penn as an advisor struck a real reaction in this strong labor supporter.  I ended up voting for Hillary convincing myself that it was because her health care plan was a little bit better.  But in large part I think I made the decision because of the way many Obama supporters were behaving.  They would extol the politics of change and of of coming together with some of the most hateful rhetoric I have ever seen online.  The reaction that Obama was stirring up in people repulsed me and turned me into a tepid Hillary supporter.

    Someone Asks "Why" Above (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:27:25 AM EST
    And while it's tempting to blame sexism and racism.  While I do think both are in play to some degree (I think Ferrarro might be right at this point, you just can't say it), they are not the primary reasons.

    It is because the media resents Bill's success from the 90s.

    Because Bill governed well and the lives of all Americans inproved in the 90s Bill got away with too much.  This is their second chance at destroying that legacy.

    I agree with Big Tent Democrat (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Marguerite Quantaine on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:31:45 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    He clearly and accurately describes (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:36:09 AM EST
    How the campaign turned ugly.

    There's no incentive for Clinton to change cause they're going to rip her to shreds either way.

    There's no incentive for Obama to change cause they're going to fawn over him anyway.


    [ Parent ]

    The media (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Mary Mary on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:38:06 AM EST
    resents that they weren't able to take Bill Clinton down. The Clinton presidency showed that the press has much less influence over the American electorate than was previously thought before.

    They began ratcheting it up in 2000 and escalated in 2004, but I think they have overplayed their hand and have lost credibility with the public. This election will be an interesting test of my hypothesis.

    [ Parent ]

    If Obama wins (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:41:11 AM EST
    Your hypothesis is false.

    Indeed, while BTD cuts throught the BS on this issue, BTD concedes that his support of Obama is based primarily on the assumption that the media has the power to make and break candidates.


    [ Parent ]

    x (none / 0) (#181)
    by Mary Mary on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:14:35 AM EST
    If Obama wins your hypothesis is false.

    Yep. Especially in the general, where I expect the media to favor McCain. We shall see.

    Also, the power of the media wanes as the pain of Americans rises. Will there be enough pain spread far enough in Nov to overcome media bias?

    [ Parent ]

    I totally agree. (5.00 / 4) (#97)
    by Marguerite Quantaine on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:29:33 AM EST
    And may I add, anyone who lives in Florida has seen the sign holders at intersections in the dead of heat, or pouring rain, waving at drivers on election day, urging them to go to the polls and vote.

    For 30 years (in one state or another) I've been one of those sign holders, fending off discouragement over the voter apathy that's been proclaimed by the media since the 1970's.

    Finally, we have people going to the polls and taking part in the process.

    And what does the media do?

    It demands Clinton drop out of the campaign, while simutaneously doing whatever it takes to start a race war in this country.

    And, what does Howard Dean, Donna Brazile and the DNC do?

    They punish the people of Florida and Michigan for what a group of elitists (holding the reigns of power) did.

    And, what did Nancy Pelosi do?

    She appeared on national television during prime time to say, "The votes don't matter. Only the delegates matter."

    Well then Nancy, since you said it and you rule the roost, discount the delegates as an act of punishment for not obeying the DNC rules, but demand the votes be counted!

    We have 10 more states who want a voice in this, and no elected official, or superdelegate, or wannabe talking head should be telling any American citizen not to vote, or that his/her vote doesn't count.

    Personally, I think Pelosi deserves to be voted out of office for this, as a reminder of how important our right to vote is.

    As for the media encouraging Clinton to step aside so they can put their choice of nominee on the road to the White House, maybe it's time you look at your falling circulation figures and Nielsen ratings and brace for the loss of women 55 and older.

    Just a thought.

    The attacks on Hillary (5.00 / 11) (#102)
    by stillife on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:31:56 AM EST
    by the MSM and "progressive" blogs have strengthened my support for her.  The media pundits are the same clowns who slobbered all over Bush and slammed Gore in 2000. I resent the presumptuousness of the idiotic media trying to pick my candidate.

    I remember the days not so very long ago, when I used to like Obama OK, although I always thought he was a weaker candidate than Hillary or Edwards.  The media and the blogosphere have been fanning the flames and yes, I believe that Obama's campaign was the first to go "dirty".  They're certainly the first to whine about unfair treatment.  

    Yesterday, I received an e-mail from Brave New Films which, along with moveon.org (I unsubbed when they endorsed Obama), is delivering a petition to NBC studios asking them not to "parrot right-wing Fox" in bashing Obama.  Like there's any danger of that!

    I e-mailed them back:

    Your concern for Obama is touching.  Funny I haven't heard anything from you on the horrendous bias of MSNBC, CNN and much of the MSM against Hillary Clinton.

    Of course, I just got an automated response but it made me feel better.

    That's what I've realized too (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:45:16 AM EST
    Ultimately the situation described above forces me to resent Obama for a lot of things that he might not be guilty of.

    But he's clearly embracing it.  It's his only path to victory.

    The hardening of Clinton support in this context is something for Obama to worry about in the general election.

    I don't need to repeat where I stand on this.

    Everyone makes their own decisions when the time comes.


    [ Parent ]

    Heh (none / 0) (#120)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:38:17 AM EST
    Hilarious.

    [ Parent ]
    funny (none / 0) (#169)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:03:34 AM EST
    early in this campaign this was an argument FOR Obama and against Hillary.
    you still hear Obama fans on some sites saying the media pick is Hillary and that is why they are against her.


    [ Parent ]
    They tagged her (none / 0) (#202)
    by stillife on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:43:28 AM EST
    the "presumptive nominee" while sharpening their knives.  They never liked her.

    [ Parent ]
    Real Change (5.00 / 3) (#129)
    by OxyCon on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:42:38 AM EST
    I often say that the only change Obama has accomplished is that he changed many Clinton supporters into Clinton haters.
    I remember when most of the left blogoshpere were avid Clinton supporters who felt honored to be associated with the Clintons.
    One case in particular was John Aravosis of Americablog, who was thrilled to meet President Clinton, along with several other lucky bloggers, when President Clinton arranged a meeting with them solely because he personally took an interest in them and their blogs.
    Sadly, you won't find a more irrational, anti-Hillary blog than Americablog today.
    What changed them? Their new allegiance to Obama.

    Do you still support Obama? (5.00 / 4) (#131)
    by dianem on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:43:41 AM EST
    You sound a lot like I did when I went from supporting Edwards but preferring Obama over Clinton to preferring Clinton over Obama. It didn't happen overnight, and I was a bit ambivalent about the change. Clinton was never my favorite politician. I initially started defending her just because I felt that she was being treated unfairly, but in the process of defending her, I learned a bit about her history and qualifications and I came to realize that there was a lot more to this woman than the media had been showing me. I guess that a lot of other people already knew this, judging by her support.

    The reverse has happend with Obama. I started out sympathetic to him, but the more I have learned the less I like him. I thought he was just inexperienced, but I'm wondering at this point if he is not simply a Potemkin candidate, put forward and propped up by people who want to use his natural appeal and speaking skills to launch a legend. Whenever I ask one of his supporters to tell me why Obama should be President, they point to his web site, which is nothing but platitudes. Is there something more to this man or is it simply that his supporters prefer platitudes to cold, hard, reality.

    More so than ever (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:49:32 AM EST
    This all has confirmed my thesis.

    I do not care about candidates per se, I care about issues. On the issues, I see not a dime worth of difference between them.

    Indeed, my ultimate point is there really is no basis for all this PASSION for two very uninspiring cautious candidates.

    [ Parent ]

    A small sad truth (5.00 / 3) (#148)
    by suisser on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:52:26 AM EST
    A middle aged woman is viewed by the media as the least valuable human being.  No matter who she is, or what she's done, she's a post menopausal female.
    There. I've said it - now I think I need to go throw-up.

    If the Clintons really were evil racists (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by OxyCon on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:57:58 AM EST
    ...as many Obama supporters seem to believe, then why didn't Hillary bring up Rev Wright in South Carolina when President Clinton was being attacked as a racist? Or why not before the Iowa caucuses?
    If they had, Obama would have been the first candidate to bow out of the election.

    And why would Bill Clinton's offices (5.00 / 3) (#197)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:35:52 AM EST
    be in Harlem?  etc. etc.

    If the media wanted to, they could have ho-hummed the racism charge with plenty of evidence.  They didn't.

    And I'll state my bumper sticker slogan again, in the hopes it catches on someday:

    "The Iraq War Was a Media Darling Too"

    [ Parent ]

    I found it curious (none / 0) (#199)
    by waldenpond on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:37:41 AM EST
    that a party that believes the Clinton's will do anything to win hasn't brought this up.  Maybe everyone knew about it and knew it would come up and it gave the Clinton's a position to argue that Obama was unelectable until the situation had time to shake out.

    [ Parent ]
    Are We Really Different Than the Republicans? (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by Elporton on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:02:24 AM EST
    Much has been said here (rightly so) about intra-party conflict and dirty tricks, and it does seem to me that Sen. Clinton seems to get the worst of it more often.

    But I'm sure we all remember the 2000 Republican presidential race in South Carolina.  Whispers of McCain's illegitimate black child and his wife's instability/drug addiction.  Politicians are generally not beyond throwing low blows, even at their own team.

    BTD said this hurts the party's chances in the GE and he's probably right.  But what will really hurt our chances is putting up the candidate that can't win.  Look what we did in 2004.  There was no internal bickering about or among the candidates, and we found a way to lose to Pres. Bush!

    While we'll get past this squabbling among ourselves, it looks like the candidate most likely to defeat the presumptive Republican nominee won't get that chance because we've been hijacked by the wacky and bitter elements of our own party, just like the Republicans.

    And this farce has self-marginalized (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by Pacific John on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:49:37 AM EST
    NBC and the blogs. They are now nearly irrelevant to the election.

    As a humble volunteer for Hillary in TX, it was clear that there was no connection between what we saw in the media and what voters were thinking. Strike that, our biggest phone banking night was after Russert's blatantly misogynistic debate performance. If anything, the adversity generated by the current left-media farce is fueling the opposition.

    I won't vote for Obama (5.00 / 2) (#225)
    by lentinel on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:42:28 PM EST
    I agree with the framing of how and when the negativity started.

    At the time I was reading Arianna and Dowd. Both of them practically were stating that Obama was unmanly for not attacking Hillary Clinton.

    Then it began. Stinkers like Russert revealed themselves.
    The press enjoyed what they think was a heavyweight fight.
    They lured folks into the tent with the big fight so that they could sell their hair tonic and snake oil.

    But it is Obama who went for it.
    His campaign became one of the sleaziest in memory.
    Bill Clinton, you know, the one who has his presidential office in Harlem, was recast as a racist.

    And so on.

    I admit that I never liked Obama. His campaigning for Lieberman disqualified him for me. His speech before the convention in 2004 that everyone found so electrifying was an absolute nothing for me. He said nothing about Iraq. He said practically nothing about Kerry. He waved the flag, and talked about himself.

    And so if he is the nominee, in my view he will have gotten it by destroying Hillary Clinton, the one viable candidate in the race.
    He would have done it in concert with a rabid sexist media.

    If he is the nominee, I must admit that I don't think he is prepared to be President. I don't think he knows what the hell he is doing.

    I'm not saying I could vote for McCain, but Obama can forget about it. I think he is potentially dangerous.

    media love to hate Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#228)
    by NO2WONDERBOY on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:39:47 AM EST
    BTD,you are right! The media has shown their bias against her intelligence, her competence, and her gender. They revel in distorting, and misrepresenting her statements, underscoring her life-time, untiring efforts to bring equality for the underprivileged, Blacks, Latinos and other minorities on the issues that challenge them most. The media hangs on her every word, the slightest facial expression to vilify and disparage her.
    Carl Rove just recited a lithany of Obama's "mispeaks" on the Greta Susteren(spelling?): that his parents met on the Selma march, when this happened when he was four years old; that he and Rezko didn't have any kind of relationship, yet went on record the Friday of Wright's bombshell with a Chicago newspaper man to disclose just how much Rezko had contributed to his campaign ($250,000+)and his shady deal on his 1.6 million dollar home; that he spoke fluid Indonesian which was denied by his teacher there; that his father was a humble shepperd, when it has been proven that his father was a member of the elite of the revolutionary dictator Odinga in Kenya, whose government paid for his trip and post graduate education in Hawaii; the list goes on, and on, and on...
    Now the media is blowing way out of proportion and is chastising Hillary Clinton for he Bosnia exaggeration, as if she had driven a dagger to the American people's heart. Give me, us, a break!!

    Who plays dirty? (4.00 / 4) (#22)
    by myiq2xu on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:57:53 AM EST
    I am an Oakland Raiders fan.  The Raiders have long been considered the dirtiest team in football, and are almost always the most penalized.

    But I recall back during the Niners glory years when they polled the NFL players as to which team played dirtiest, and the Niners were the consensus pick.

    I don't mind negative campaigns.  "Politics ain't beanbag" as Molly Ivins used to say. (RIP Molly)

    I really don't mind that Obama gets away with playing dirty.  Life isn't fair, and the Clintons know that.

    But what annoys me is the Obamaniacs acting all sanctimonious and smarmy, accusing Hillary of playing dirty.

    BTW - The Niner fans are the reason I hate the Niners.

    Yes (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by Steve M on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:09:42 AM EST
    In a perfect world the blogs would at least be clear-eyed enough to take note of what is going on.  Instead, they've all become willing participants in the sort of reality-free media narrative the blogosphere used to deplore.

    As you say, if he gets away with it, he gets away with it (and maybe that's the mark of a skilled politician), but savvy political observers ought to be at least able to point it out.  You'd think a sharp media critic like Josh Marshall would be one of the first to catch on, but instead, you find Josh and friends doing nothing but obsessing over the anti-Hillary talking point of the day.

    [ Parent ]