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Obama Says Rezko Played a Bigger Fundraising Role Than Previously Known

In a just published interview with Sen. Barack Obama, the Chicago Tribune reports:

Indicted Chicago businessman Antoin "Tony" Rezko was a more significant fundraiser for presidential candidate Barack Obama's earlier political campaigns than previously known. Rezko raised as much as $250,000 for the first three offices Obama sought, the senator told the Tribune on Friday.

Obama also said for the first time that his private real estate transactions with Rezko involved repeated lapses of judgment. The mistake, Obama said, was not simply that Rezko was under grand jury investigation at the time of their 2005 and 2006 dealings. "The mistake was he had been a contributor and somebody involved in politics," he said.

Repeated lapses of judgment. The Tribune says that's how Obama views it.

The interview raises another question: Obama's naivite.

Obama said that when he questioned Rezko about news reports of his questionable political dealings, his friend assured him there was nothing wrong. "My instinct was to believe him," he said.

He relied on his "instinct" and didn't do anything to verify it. [More...]

Then there's this:

Asked if he ever thought Rezko would expect something from their relationship, Obama was definitive. "No, precisely because I'd known him for [many] years and he hadn't asked me for favors."

Again, this isn't some unfamiliar contributor (like Norman Hsu, who contributed to both Hillary and Obama's campaigns without having a relationship with either.) Rezko is a man allegedly engaged in corruption at the highest level of Illinois politics. Obama had an ongoing relationship with him for 15 years -- since 1991 -- that included the time periods when Obama was serving in the Illinois legislature, running for U.S. Senate and serving as U.S. Senator. His real estate transactions with Rezko's wife occurred in June and December, 2005, after a year of serving as U.S. Senator.

The Tribune notes:

Though Obama insists he has answered all inquiries, his campaign's piecemeal written statements have left lingering uncertainties about whether the up-and-coming senator exchanged favors with the target of a federal probe.

Rezko helped "bankroll" Obama's 1995 and 1998 state senate campaigns, his failed congressional bid in 2000 and his 2004 U.S. Senate campaign.

I've consistently maintained there's no indication Obama did anything legally improper in his Rezko dealings. Rezko is presumed innocent -- his criminal trial is only a few weeks old and scheduled to last months. Obama is not a player in any of the alleged misconduct.

But it's hard to say he didn't exercise poor judgment and it's fair to ask whether it might happen again, whether he's too naive and whether personal loyalties might again impair his judgment on some issue.

Also, on Monday, the jury questionnaire was unsealed in the Rezko trial. There were three pages of names (pdf)that prospective jurors were told might be witnesses at Rezko's trial. Barack Obama's name was one of them, for reasons unknown. Rezko's lawyer has since stated he has no plans to call Obama. I have written before I doubt it will come to pass. But, the lawyers for either Rezko or the Government at one time thought it a reasonable enough possibility that they submitted his name for inclusion. It's unlikely it was because Rezko helped Obama buy his house...that's neither here nor there in the criminal trial.

So, either Rezko contemplated Obama might be a character witness for him, or the Government thought they might need Obama to establish that he received campaign contributions from Joseph Amaranda and another contributor, which the Government claims were proceeds of an illegal finders' fee scheme. Rezko may be innocent, and Obama did nothing legally improper, but there's plent of dirty laundry to go around.

I'll close by returning to Norman Hsu. How silly that some want to compare Hsu to Rezko. Hsu was a bundler and a contributor with no personal relationship with either Obama or Hillary. Even Obama says in this latest interview, the mistake in doing personal real estate transactions with Rezko was not just that Rezko was under criminal investigation, but that "he had been a contributor and somebody involved in politics." Norman Hsu was never involved in politics. I'd bet he couldn't have reached either Obama or Hillary on the phone directly. Rezko may never have asked for favors, but I bet if he called Obama, he got through, and not just to a staffer.

Obama says voters who are concerned about his judgment should view his involvement with Rezko as "a mistake in not seeing the potential conflicts of interest."

Obama says despite his mistakes (engaging in personal real estate deals with someone under criminal investigation who was a contributor to his multiple campaigns for public office and involved in politics -- and his failure to spot the potential conflicts of interest) voters should "also "see somebody who is not engaged in any wrongdoing . . . and who they can trust."

I think that's a fair statement of what voters should ask themselves. For me, I see someone who is not engaged in any wrongdoing, but the trust issue gives me pause.

Update: Comments now closed.

< MI Dems Approve Revote, Now Up to Legislature and Campaigns | Obama Tells Sun Times Rezko is Still a Friend >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Obama claims in the Trib. interview (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by MarkL on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:47:14 PM EST
    that Rezko never asked him for a favor.
    Oh really? I would be the naive one if I believed that. Did he really do no favors for Rezko at all?
    Did Rezko do any for him?


    Well, his wife bought Obama's yard. (none / 0) (#111)
    by derridog on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:58:53 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Bad journalism (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Steve M on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:50:09 PM EST
    I'm pretty unimpressed by the Trib saying they did an "extensive interview" with Obama which Obama gave in an attempt to quell the controversy, yet they give us only tiny snippets of what was discussed.

    It's a classic case of the media acting as gatekeeper.  Obama knows the issue is not whether he can reassure voters there is nothing to worry about, it's whether he can reassure the press and thus make them stop writing about it.  Our friends in the MSM will decide whether or not we need to worry our pretty little heads.

    I might (none / 0) (#52)
    by standingup on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:29:22 PM EST
    agree if this were not such an ongoing issue.  Obama had the chance to come out with everything well over a year ago instead of allowing the situation to progress as it has with the press.  It has simply been an error on his part to attempt to downplay his relationship, brush off the press only to have more information come out that contradicts what was previously reported.  Obama knows or should know better than to assume he can let this go without it coming back on him and his campaign.  

    The same holds true for Hillary or John McCain.  Part of running a successful campaign is knowing how to respond to the press.  

    [ Parent ]

    more like... (none / 0) (#86)
    by Josey on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:48:57 PM EST
    political calculation to downplay Rezko. When is omission considered lying?
    Edwards supporters always said his true relationship with Rezko would be revealed AFTER  Iowa.


    [ Parent ]
    Or how much more (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by standingup on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:43:26 PM EST
    might still be revealed.  

    [ Parent ]
    Judgement (5.00 / 8) (#3)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:51:56 PM EST
    Remember Obama is only referring to the Federal case, all this time Rezko was in default on a number of  properties financed with public funds.  

    How does a community organizer and elected official conduct a real estate transaction with someone who basically depleted all the reserves of the properties, defaulted on loans and violated the terms of the Low Income Housing Tax Credit agreements.  Needles to say, ended up with numerous low income people losing their housing.  To me this is OBAMA"s lack of judgement.  This is not a simple matter and no one is covering it.  

    I bang my head.  

    Stellaaa That Is The Part Of This Whole Thing (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by MO Blue on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:26:20 PM EST
    that bothers me the most too. Got to wonder if that aspect of this will be reported later when or if Obama becomes the nominee.

    There is illegal behavior and there in inappropriate behavior. The  RE deal was IMO inappropriate behavior IMO.

    [ Parent ]

    Lesson learned (5.00 / 5) (#160)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:48:18 PM EST
    Ultimately no one cares that a bunch of low income people lost their housing. That has been my experience. No one cares that Rezko ripped off resources for low income community. No one cares that Obama, the City of Chicago, the non profit that joint ventured with Rezko and the law firm all took fees and did not do their job. No body cares. What I despise are politicians who use low income people and communities for their own ambitions. In the end, Obama took the NIMBY position when he told the Chicago Tribune:
    The reasons for the problems such partnerships struggle are complex but frequently include urban crime, demographic changes and social factors outside the control of any developer or owner.
    Sun Times Now this is the ultimate Oke Doke. Blaming low income AA community for the obvious Rezko failures. Low Income Housing Tax Credit projects rarely, rarely fail. The neighborhood is not the reason for the failure, it's the developer, your supporter, Senator Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    What does "ol' okee doke" mean? (none / 0) (#192)
    by jawbone on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:32:19 PM EST
    In usage above? In Obama's speeches? I know he places it next to "hoodwink" and "bamboozle." But how did a simply affirmative become something close to hoodwink?

    I did look it up in Urban Dictionary--and, oof, some of the meanings are weird, some gross.  There is one about tricking opponents in playing a card game called "spades."

    But, what does it mean and where does it come from?

    [ Parent ]

    Long Playful Form (none / 0) (#195)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:35:48 PM EST
    Of OK

    [ Parent ]
    From the Urban Dictionary for okey doke: (none / 0) (#215)
    by jawbone on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:11:08 PM EST
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=okey+dokee+okey+dokey+okie+dokee

    7. okey doke  
      1.a convict
     2.A person found or declared guilty of an offense or crime.

    8. okey doke  
      oak-e doke, An extremely stupid looking person, of southern redneck origins.

    What is this okey doke thinking, putting a rebel flag on his lawnmower?

    11. okey doke  
      1. someone whose been tricked or duped
     2. a trick
     3. someone who was slipped something
    i.e.drugs    or alcohol

    "Man that okey doke was easy prey, we got his money and his car from him without him even realizing."
    "They played an okey doke on you, shad"
    "He's just an okey doke,his friends slipped him something in his drink"

    10. okey doke  
     in reference to football or basketball, to juke or break someones ankles

    The linebacker got okeydoked by Mike Vick

    13. okey doke  
      To go along with something until you are in a position where you can get your way.

    Girl, that's the okey doke, you do what he wants, marry him, and then you run his life.

    30. okie doke  
      This is the slang name in the card game of spades for when you set your opponent in one hand, then make them lose 100 points for going over on bags in the next. A usual okie doke results in a loss of 150 to 180 points.

    We bid 5 tricks, but only took 4, and we already had 8 overbooks. Then on the next hand, we took 2 bags. We lost 150 points in 2 hands. Man, I hate getting the okie doke.

    Do these seem to be what Obama is saying in using the phrase "old okee doke"? There are lots more and I left out all the sexual references.

    Strange that one phrase can have so many purported meanings. 3, 13, 30 might be what he meant?

    [ Parent ]

    Don't Know (5.00 / 1) (#227)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:24:58 PM EST
    The okey dokey flap never made it on to my radar, not so interesting AFAIC. But I do like etymology.  

    [ Parent ]
    Considering... (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by DudeE on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:39:07 PM EST
    ...he's been hammering on the whole judgment thing, it appears he's lacking in that as well.

    [ Parent ]
    Tribune articles and LA Times (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:55:50 PM EST
    The $250,000 is nothing new, the Trib and LA times already had the number.

    Of course this probably does not include all the money Rezko bundled for Obama as a member of his finance committee.  

    Bundling... (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by DudeE on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:48:03 PM EST
    There is way more to Rezko than the tepid media has reported:

    Rezko Cash Triple What Obama Says

    "At the time of the (fundraiser), the state was in the process of foreclosing on a low-income apartment building Rezko's company rehabbed in Obama's state Senate district..."

    "Between 75 and 80 people attended Rezko's cocktail party, according to Burton, but he said the campaign has no list of the guests.

    More than half a dozen people who were there said between 100 and 150 guests were treated to an open bar and food served by Jewell Events Catering, run by renowned Chicago caterer George Jewell. Valets parked cars for the guests, who each were asked to donate at least $1,000.

    Rezko picked up the tab. The exact cost of the party has never been disclosed to the Federal Election Commission, which allows hosts to pay up to $2,000 for fund-raisers held in their homes and not report the expense. If a party costs more than $2,000, the candidate must tell the FEC about it. "

    [ Parent ]

    I thought it was $180K - now it's $250K! (none / 0) (#15)
    by Josey on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:02:34 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I think Obama's campaign has (none / 0) (#75)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:45:04 PM EST
    donated about $180,000 to charity, money they say is attributable to Rezko.

    [ Parent ]
    worried (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by Lil on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:58:46 PM EST
    I'm really starting to worry about Obama getting the nomination and the Republicans having a field day with him, and us losing in Nov. Even though I think some of his problems this week are sad and unwarranted, I'd rather have them fleshed out before the GE, because it is child's play compared to what the right wing will try to do to him. I want a Dem victory, and although a Hillary supporter, in the end I want a winner. Too many macro issues are at stake that have nothing to do with which one is president...starting with SCOTUS, and ending with John McCain being a disasterous president (more than likely).

    It is certainly better... (none / 0) (#110)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:58:34 PM EST
    ... to have these discussions while there is still a viable Democratic alternative. I know Obama supporters attack the Clinton campaign for bringing a lot of stuff up, but Republicans certainly will, and it's better to hash it all out now.

    [ Parent ]
    Well, this is an excerpt from Taylor Marsh's (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by derridog on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:18:51 PM EST
    excellent post on this subject. It's on the side of her website under Obama and Rezko at the top of a list of topics. I'll try not to make this too big because I tried to quote some of it before and Jeralyn asked me to take it off. I'm not sure how big is too big, so I hope I'm not messing things up again. If you are interested, you should go to her site and read this in its entirety:

    As this article also cites, while Obama worked as a lawyer and to "improve living conditions for the poor," he took campaign cash from Rezko's slum empire. The reason he's called a "slumlord" is that as the Chicago Sun-Times has reported, Rezko left African American families in buildings that lacked heat, even in the middle of Chicago's brutal winters, and in buildings that were home to squatters and drug dealers.

    But Obama's ties with Rezko go beyond those two real estate sales and the political support, the Sun-Times found. Obama was an attorney with a small Chicago law firm -- Davis Miner Barnhill & Galland -- that helped Rezmar get more than $43 million in government funding to rehab 15 of their 30 apartment buildings for the poor.

    Obama role unclear

    Just what legal work -- and how much -- Obama did on those deals is unknown. His campaign staff acknowledges he worked on some of them.


    [ Parent ]

    Thanks for that. (none / 0) (#164)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:58:18 PM EST
    I'm trying to learn what I can about the situation. I support Hillary, and I know her hands are certainly not entirely clean when it comes to doing business with morally dubious people (nor, I might add, are McCain's). But in her case it's a built-in part of her narrative, and already reflected in how people perceive her. Whereas I think it could seriously erode support for Obama, based on the idealism of his campaign and his supporters.

    [ Parent ]
    here's something from a site called (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by derridog on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:43:43 PM EST
    fallbackbelmontblogspot.com   I know nothing more about it. But I found this there:

    In 2003, Nick Cohen at the Guardian wrote ... (about) Nadhmi Auchi. He was charged in the 1950s with being an accomplice of Saddam Hussein.... He was investigated in the 1980s for his part in alleged bribes to the... corrupt leaders of post-war Italy. In the 1990s, the Belgium Ambassador to Luxembourg claimed that Auchi's bank held money Saddam and Colonel Gadaffi had stolen from their ...peoples. In 2002, ...the Serious Fraud Squad raided the offices of one of Auchi's drug companies as part of an investigation of what is alleged to be the biggest swindle ever of the NHS.

    ....now The Times reports that the "British-Iraqi billionaire  (Auchi) lent millions of dollars to Barack Obama's fundraiser (Rezko) just weeks before an imprudent land deal that has returned to haunt the presidential contender."....the ...story is that the Rezkos were broke at the time the Chicago property developer's wife bought a garden lot for full price just as Barack Obama was sold the house adjacent at a $300,000 discount. Obama later expanded his property by purchasing part of the garden lot from the Rezkos at $104,500 when it was appraised at $40,500.

    Asked if she [Mrs Rezko] used money from her husband to buy the land next to Mr Obama's house, she said: "I can't answer these questions, I'm sorry."

    Asked how long she and her husband had known Mr Auchi, she replied: "I will not be able to answer this question."

    Mr Auchi's lawyer, asked whether the Fintrade Services loan was used to buy the land which became Mr Obama's garden, stated: "No, not as far as my client is aware."

    ....Bloomberg describes how the sale took place. Rezko's wife, Rita ...bought the adjoining plot in Hyde Park... for the $625,000 asking price, the same day that Obama bought the house for $300,000 less than the asking price. Antoin Rezko was under federal investigation at the time.

    [ Parent ]

    Judgment isn't at issue here (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by Edgar08 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:12:07 PM EST
    It's his claim that he can bring the country together.

    These are precisely the kinds of things that Republicans can use to polarize Obama to the point where he becomes a divisive figure in Politics.

    And we all know they will.


    Judgement is the issue (none / 0) (#235)
    by Prabhata on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:08:57 PM EST
    Obama advertises his judgment against HRC.  As proof of his sound judgment, he brings out his opposition to the war in Iraq in 2002.  Clearly, he has shown lack of judgment when confronted with self-interest, and that is a mark of weak moral compass.

    [ Parent ]
    Not a Good Day For (5.00 / 5) (#34)
    by facta non verba on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:13:03 PM EST
    the junior Senator from Illinois. First his pastor is all over the news, highlighted on MSNBC, CNN, & Fox News after the ABC News story from yesterday. "God Damn America" just doesn't play well in Peoria. And twenty year relationship with the Reverend Jeremiah Wright. And now this? A seventeen-year relationship. When do people pull the plug? I am flabbergasted that his supporters are still coming up with excuses. Jeremiah Wright is like an uncle to Obama. He's now retired. Yup about a month ago. The fact that he said "Hillary ain't ever been called a n-" Well that was in a sermon, he was quoting Jesus. The analogy to Hsu is nonsense. Hsu and Clinton did not have a personal relationship. They didn't vacant lots for each other. Clinton didn't vote Illinois State Funds to throw Rezko's way.

    Please pull the plug on this charade. It's getting offensive.

    This'll be (none / 0) (#35)
    by Edgar08 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:13:55 PM EST
    Deleted.


    [ Parent ]
    Why? (none / 0) (#40)
    by facta non verba on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:19:32 PM EST
    It is hard to take this barrage of unsavory news from the Obama. Please elaborate. Happy to understand why?

    [ Parent ]
    No (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by standingup on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:35:26 PM EST
    The reason it will be deleted is because it violates the site policy against using profanity in comments.  

    [ Parent ]
    How do you (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by facta non verba on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:54:29 PM EST
    quote Wright then? There are his words, not mine. It's a direct quote from his sermon of January 13, 2008.

    His language was offensive. That line offends me. I understand if I were saying it but I am quoting him, word for word.

    These two long-term relationships are only going to get worse. I am sure the GOP is pouring over all those sermons for sale splicing and dicing, getting all the juicy parts. I wrote on my blog two months ago that 2008 would bring a new word to the political lexicon, a swiftchurch.

    This will not play well in Peoria. Or the Upper West Side. Can you imagine months of unrelenting coverage of Jeremiah Wright? Every show has devoted major airtime to this story today. Anderson Cooper last night seemed stunned. Why didn't we know this earlier? Simple, people aren't paying attention.

    Obama has serious flaws but broach a criticism and you're called a racist. Many Obama supporters see what they want to see. That's why BTD is so refreshing because he admits he has flaws. Obama has this tendency to deny everything, to trivialize it and then deny again. Say no it wasn't that way. Rezko. I barely knew him. Only billed five hours. Drip drip drip. And down the drain we go.

    [ Parent ]

    Try this (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by standingup on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:39:28 PM EST
    as others do when it is necessary for a direct quote - "God D*#n America" - and context.  

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks! (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by facta non verba on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:13:33 PM EST
    I did do the letter#- thing but more context is the way to go. Thanks.

    [ Parent ]
    I don't know (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Edgar08 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:35:42 PM EST
    I was wrong.

    I thought Wright was taboo.


    [ Parent ]

    Obama has done (none / 0) (#58)
    by MKS on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:33:00 PM EST
    nothing illegal and nothing unethical as far as the known facts show.....Speculation is something entirely different....

    Worrying about appearances can go too far....Hillary has her own treasure trove of issues...

    [ Parent ]

    This is from an interview on Jan. 21, 2007 of (5.00 / 3) (#147)
    by derridog on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:33:48 PM EST
    Barack by Wolf Blitzer. Note what he says then about his relationship with Rezko. He won't even use his name (also from Taylor Marsh --see my quote above).  Obama is lying by omission:

    BLITZER: .... I just want to give you a chance, Senator Obama.... Senator Clinton made a serious allegation that you worked for a slumlord. And I wonder if you want to respond.

    OBAMA: I'm happy to respond. Here's what happened: I was an associate at a law firm that represented a church group that had partnered with this individual to do a project and I did about five hours worth of work on this joint project. That's what she's referring to.

    --Democratic presidential debate sponsored by CNN and the Congressional Black Caucus Institute on January 21, 2008

    This individual? .... never mind that Antoin "Tony" Rezko and Barack Obama are deeply linked throughout his political career and have been friends since 1990.

    Mr. Obama has portrayed Mr. Rezko as a one-time fund-raiser whom he had occasionally seen socially. But interviews with more than a dozen political and business associates suggest that the two men were closer than the senator has indicated.

    Mr. Obama turned to Mr. Rezko for help at several important junctures. Records show that when Mr. Obama needed cash in the waning days of his losing 2000 Congressional campaign, Mr. Rezko rounded up thousands of dollars from business contacts. In 2003, Mr. Rezko helped Mr. Obama expand his fund-raising for the Senate primary by being host of a dinner at his Mediterranean-style home for 150 people, including some whose names have since come up in the influence scandal.

    [ Parent ]

    So much for the "judgment argument" (5.00 / 8) (#45)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:24:42 PM EST
    This is the problem when you run a "wonk free" campaign.  A campaign based on slogans.

    When the slogans are found wanting, what is there left to support?

    It's also not helpful to find Obama wasn't entirely forthcoming about Rezko's role in his campaigns.  

    Do people still really believe he's going to be stronger than Hillary in the GE?

    I mean ... really?  Really?

    Obama thinks (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by Foxx on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:35:43 PM EST
    he can talk his way out of anything.

    I didn't know about (unmentionable) even though I was a member of (unmentionable) for 20 years. I didn't know who Rezko really was even though I closely associated with him and Blagojevich (sp?) for 17 years.

    We haven't YET found that Obama has done anything illegal (stupid, unethical yes). CAn anyone doubt that he associated with Rezko all this time and really did nothing illegal, even tho we may never find out about it?

    "Doubt"? (none / 0) (#69)
    by MKS on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:40:53 PM EST
    Proof is preferred to speculation that aids one candidate over another.

    [ Parent ]
    We already got the memo... (5.00 / 4) (#84)
    by Camorrista on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:48:45 PM EST
    Here we have an item about Senator Obama's links to a developer on trial for corruption, an item which quotes Obama as admitting to repeated lapses in judgement.  And what's the response by a vigorous Obama defender?

    It doesn't matter, because Senator Clinton is worse:

    After Clinton's litany of screw-ups...

    That's a refreshing difference from Bush and Clinton.

    I realize Clinton supporters are desperate to find some slime...

    Thank you for the reminder.  

    Just in case there are some truly unpleasant revelations at the Rezco trial, don't forget to haul out your files on Whitewater, Vincent Foster, the Travel Office and the Rose Law Firm.  No doubt, there's plenty there to demonstrate how much worse she is.  And if all that falls short, you can always dredge up Senator Clinton's vote on the war.  That, of course, will trump everything.  

    They obviously heard the accusations (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Dancing Bear on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:46:00 PM EST
    They should have stayed tuned for the results

    Not Guilty
    Not Guilty
    Not Guilty
    Not Guilty
    Not Guilty

    She was elected and could therefore vote.
    He wants to keep Mercenery forces there instead of troops.  Perhaps because they only cost 5 times as much and don't have to answer questions truthfully, and can't be prosecuted.
    Remember when Hillary donated her book royalties to Children's Hospitals and Barack bought a Georgian Mansion?  Gotta love a man of the people.
    Throw it right back at them,lol!

    [ Parent ]

    Obama's Big Downside Potential, Even if Unjustied (5.00 / 3) (#157)
    by pluege on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:44:03 PM EST
    I continue to submit (and disagree with BTD) that Obama's media position is a great liability; he will be fried by the wingnut MSM if he is the dem nominee. What we know of Obama is not good; what we don't yet know could be much worse; what the wingnut MSM will do just with what we know and what they will infer and speculate in full smear regalia could be devastating.

    Clinton has been throughly, unjustifiably trashed for 15 years by the wingnut MSM. They've maxed out on damage to her. This is a strength of Clinton in comparison to Obama whose downside potential in the media is unknown and most likely is large regardless of his innocence.

    Obama would be a much, much better candidate in 8 years than he is now.

    Just the fact (none / 0) (#176)
    by ding7777 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:14:24 PM EST
    that TL doesn't want comments re Rev Wright tells you how explosive its going to get

    [ Parent ]
    just heard this a little while ago (none / 0) (#209)
    by irene adler on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:53:37 PM EST
    I live in Chicago. this is how the WGN 9 o'clock news opened its newscast tonight:

    "Obama comes to Chicago to discuss his ties to indicted businessman Tony Rezko."

    that's paraphrased, but pretty much verbatim. short. pithy. and political poison. if that's how this story is starting to be languaged here in Chicago I can't see how this is going to be anything but terribly damaging nationwide.

    though the Chicago press is pretty scrappy and fearless, the tv stations here tend to fawn over BO for the most part. that's why that headline got my attention.

    [ Parent ]

    A little law firm lore...... (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by Linda on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:03:34 PM EST

    May I point out that some information comes into law firms through the back door.  Lawyers know stuff about their clients and their situations that the client never told them about.  Lawyers hear stuff from a lawyer at another firm, a banker, a broker, whoever.  

    Also, in my experience, junior lawyers have their ears to the ground at all times because their futures depend on it.  They know stuff about clients no partner ever told them.  
     

    Fascinating, but what are you responding to? (none / 0) (#207)
    by cymro on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:53:12 PM EST
    It would help if you included some context for such comments, or replied to another comment, rather than to the original post. If you are responding to another comment, the relationship is lost when later comments are interspersed. Also, ratings can alter the displayed order.

    Thanks!

    [ Parent ]

    Cymro.... (none / 0) (#214)
    by Linda on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:06:40 PM EST
    Sorry.  I was responding to the various posters who seemed to be saying that information about Rezko wouldn't have reached Senator Obama when he was at that law firm.  I find that hard to believe because information just doesn't confine itself to formal channels.

    [ Parent ]
    No need to apologise, but ... (none / 0) (#222)
    by cymro on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:18:41 PM EST
    ... it would help you to make your point (or have other people grasp it) if you attached it to one of those comments. We don't always have time to read and absorb and mentally collate every train of thought within a thread, there is just too much to read sometimes!

    [ Parent ]
    A few things come to mind (5.00 / 3) (#169)
    by rghojai on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:06:41 PM EST
    Not knowing the state of Rezko buildings in his district feels either like he was doing a shoddy job or is being dishonest. More fundamentally, seems that the Rezko-relationship story has changed more than a couple times.

    Okay, though, this time it really is the whole truth. Promise.

    Me thinks any reasonable person would wonder.

    Too, how he's handled this relative to the press does not come across as wise. How did he not see this coming?

    The Chicago Sun-Times and Chicago (none / 0) (#173)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:11:28 PM EST
    Tribune have peen publishing articles about the Obama/Rezko relationship for quite awhile.  More recently, NYT and LA Times have also published articles.  I gather the Obama campaign believes the considered wisdom that most people don't subscribe to or read a newspaper anymore.  Hence Obama's reply to HRC's comment during the debate and his short version to the media covering his campaign.

    [ Parent ]
    Innocent, until . . . (none / 0) (#205)
    by Marguerite Quantaine on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:49:58 PM EST

    A former Harvard Law Review editor and attorney at the top of his game, whose wife is a lawyer at the top of her game, knowingly enter into land deals with a man under federal indictment.

    I wrote a piece for talkleft about this on March 11th that was deleted because it was considered to be off topic.

    Maybe so.

    But it was right on the money -- and when it breaks in the news (I guarantee it will), answers will be demanded of Obama that can't (and won't) be dismissed as simply
    "boneheaded."

    [ Parent ]

    http://susiemadrak.com/2008/03/14/17/47/obamas-friday-news-dump/

    When you dump a story like this on a Friday night, it's because you're hiding something bigger. Bet on it.

    More than the third time, if you were (none / 0) (#210)
    by Cream City on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:53:45 PM EST
    watching the Chicago press.  Every time Obama said he gave to charity all that Rezko gave to Obama, the Chicago press found more -- at least five times so far, that I've seen -- and then there was foot-dragging by Obama until finally admitting it and donating more to charity again.

    This unfortunately has to make me think that there is yet more to be unearthed by the Chicago media, to go through this game again.  If Obama had good accounting methods, had been more forthright about it and ahead of this story instead of always having to be told by Chicago media which donations were made, that would be far better.  But that is not what has happened, over many months now, and there simply is no reason to trust Obama that we have seen the end of it.

    [ Parent ]

    One man's bad judgement.... (5.00 / 2) (#206)
    by ineedalife on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:52:52 PM EST
    is another man's ethical lapse.

    Wasn't Kos on the warpath last year demanding an ethics investigation of Lisa Murkowski, Republican senator from Alaska, because she bought some choice riverfront property from a donor?

    Didn't Rezko host a fundraiser for Obama to prove to party movers that Obama could raise money? I wonder if Obama's Senate run would have ever happened if it wasn't for seed money Rezko pilfered from the teacher's pension fund?  Of course Obama has donated it to charity since then, now that he has deeper pockets. And most of the unwitting teachers probably voted for him.

    Yeah, but he's severely handicapped Clinton. (5.00 / 1) (#220)
    by Susie from Philly on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:17:52 PM EST
    Even if she wins the nomination, she can't win if the AA base doesn't turn out. The slash-and-burn Obama camp has done such a great job painting her as a racist, the wound may be fatal and McCain may win.

    And I suspect the racism charges have eroded his appeal. He was polling favorably among independents and moderate Republicans as the "postracial" candidate - now he's the "black" candidate and there goes the crossover vote.

    Appearance of Impropriety. (5.00 / 2) (#224)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:23:28 PM EST
    Obama should have sold that house and gotten himself a different one.  I've known some good people in DC brought down with much less.  

    Hey you... (5.00 / 1) (#234)
    by kredwyn on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:06:44 PM EST
    Long time no see...the appearance is always a strange thing.

    [ Parent ]
    Naive? (5.00 / 1) (#239)
    by rose city on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:27:40 PM EST
    Anybody who's every watched an episode of a cheesy television drama knows that if you take favors from bad guys, they'll call the favors in someday. Come on!

    And this is the guy who thinks he can run the free world?

    there will be blood.................... (5.00 / 1) (#240)
    by cpinva on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:28:45 PM EST
    in the water, come the GE, should sen. obama be the dem. nominee. contrary to BTD's continued, totally unsupported assertions, the media sharks will circle sen. obama come the fall. piece by piece, chunks of him will be ripped off, torn with the help of the republican/right-wing smear machines. when they're done, only his blood-drained head will be left, bobbing in the water like some grotesque child's fishing float.

    sen. obama may well be pure as the driven snow for all i know. however, by his own admission, he's guilty of serial poor judgment. in the real world, perception counts, a lot. by the time those 527's get done, he'll be perceived as the second coming of al capone. by comparison, the whole muslim non-issue pales.

    why people continue to think sen. obama is the more electable of the two remains a mystery. he is fresh meat, a virtually untapped source for smears. sen. clinton is pretty much played out in that regard, unless they find her with a live boy or dead girl.

    i really, really wish he hadn't let his ego get the better of him, and waited until 2012 or 2016 to run. i fear he may become permanently damaged goods.

    Barely a word (5.00 / 1) (#242)
    by facta non verba on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:39:47 PM EST
    on the news programmes about Rezko. I watched Washington Week, Hardball, Hannity & Colmes, Countdown, O'Reilly Factor and CNN. However they all covered Jeremiah Wright. KO was pathetic. "I don't need to replay the tape." But 600 word article from the Torrance Daily Breeze gets a Special Commentary. Hypocrisy? Chris Matthews and Sean Hannity both said that Obama is finished, Hannity going one step further noting Obama should resign from the Senate (wow, I agree with Sean Hannity though this is not the reason I think Obama should resign), O'Reilly was having a cow. It's pretty funny to watch. CNN is trying to stay above it all. Just the facts and a few clips. I missed the pundits talking. Washington Week was taped in early in the day but Gwen Ifill just wondered how this doesn't just hurt the Democratic Party in the long-run. Geez you think Barack Obama has destroyed the Democratic Party. Well buckle my bridges. I've been saying that for months.

    Judgement (4.80 / 5) (#127)
    by Dancing Bear on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:11:04 PM EST
    Have you taken a look at his Chicago District?  It isn't any larger than the neighborhood I live in. I have looked at blighted buildings, called "Codes" and reported violations as a neighbor. I find it impossible that "The Man of the People", "The Community Activist" failed to see crumbling slums all around him. If he walked down the streets of his District I would guess someone would come up and say "Hey, Barack.  I voted for you.  We have no heat'!  I see my Representative at the grocery store because she lives in my District.  That's why I voted for her. Her judgements affect the quality of her own life so she has a personal stake in it. I tell her that new graffitti appeared from the 13th Street Gang on a wall and The Gang task for came by two hours later and took pictures and asked me questions about when it appeared. He was too busy making plans.  BIG PLANS for his bright and shiny future full of money , property, and prestige. He is no man of the people.  He is a guy on the make and on the take.  It's all about him and if you think otherwise you need to take a nap and read the Newspaper once in awhile.  He heard of things about Rezko?  They were all over the front page of the Newspaper this interview is from.  Bad judgement would also include being a local Politician and not keeping up on local politics.
    So his wife doesn't like America, his pastor doesn't like America or white people (what color was Barack's single mother?)and one of his best friends was a domestic terrorist who was freed in 1981 on a technicality. And all this for President? He may have walked around Chicago for a short time sticking flowers into turds so he could brag about his accomplishments but if any of them lasted I have not seen any proof of it. "The Audacity of Hope" was given to him by his hateful preacher (who performed his wedding ceremony to Michelle) How is he going to distance himself from that?  Some friend.  His friends are all being tossed aside once their usefullness has expired. Did the Kennedy's go on vcation?  I haven't seen very much since the big wing ding in California. Maybe they were scared he'd toss them aside too. If you don't know or like who you plan on representing then you may want to try another vocation. Maybe you could become an Evengelical Pastor of a Satellite owning Christian Broadcasting Network. We know you're a good talker.  Your judgement?  Not too sure about that.

    Well said (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by allimom99 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:26:00 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Wow. Here's something I just found online. It's (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by derridog on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:04:42 PM EST
    Fox News (sorry) minute by minute account of the Rezko trial yesterday. There's a lot of stuff in there besides this that makes me very uneasy. Is this why he's suddenly coming out with these new interviews?:

    1:57 p.m. ET)

    Sen. Barack Obama's name surfaced briefly during day two of testimony in the public corruption trial of Chicago businessman and political fundraiser Tony Rezko.

    This morning, Rezko's defense team revealed an e-mail sent from an associate of David Wilhelm, the former campaign manager for Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich, to the governor's former general counsel, Susan Lichtenstein. The memo states that Obama -- then an Illinois state senator --consulted with other state lawmakers about who should serve as board members on the Illinois Health Facilities Planning Board (IHFPB).

    The IHFPB oversees the construction and expansion of Illinois hospitals. It's one of two state boards Tony Rezko is accused of trying to steal money from in what prosecutors call a "pay-to-play" scheme. Rezko never served on either board, but today two former employees with the governors office testified Rezko recommended dozens of people to those boards who eventually were appointed by the governor to serve. Prosecutors say Rezko's plan was to recommend people he knew would conspire with him to accept bribes and kickbacks from companies doing business with the boards.

    [ Parent ]

    IHFPB (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by Dancing Bear on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:16:59 PM EST
    More will be revealed as they say.  Much more,

    [ Parent ]
    I forgot to mention (none / 0) (#131)
    by Dancing Bear on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:16:05 PM EST
    Tony gave Barack $250,000. and then another $180,000. for President and now he's walking away?  With friends like that Tony you may wish to back a Republican. At least you'll get your money's worth. $430,000....Posh Mansion adjacent lot, Lavish cocktail parties, victory parties,.......Priceless!

    [ Parent ]
    I've not been particularly concerned (4.50 / 4) (#4)
    by litigatormom on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:52:26 PM EST
    about the Rezko matter (perhaps I am still suffering from PTSD after Whitewater), but I am a bit troubled by Obama's comment that he didn't think Rezko would ever ask him for a favor because Rezko was a friend.  That really is naive.

    Yes, because (none / 0) (#213)
    by Dancing Bear on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:04:11 PM EST
    we all know that Whitewater ended up being such a huge scandal. Like the Emperors New Clothes. Boy, that was only what about 15 years ago?  Maybe some rest would help. Or the results of the investigation. You should read about it sometime.

    [ Parent ]
    This response would have more merit (4.50 / 2) (#230)
    by echinopsia on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:58:00 PM EST
    if it weren't something that Obama has threatened to bring up against Clinton.

    You know and I know it turned out to be nothing.

    It did, however, dog the Clinton administration and blunt its effectiveness in major ways.

    And a lot of ill-informed people still think it's something the Clintons have to answer for even though they were exonerated.

    You want a new president who has to deal with his own version of Whitewater? Nominate Obama.

    Not that I think he'd win.

    [ Parent ]

    This is how inexperience costs us all (4.50 / 2) (#152)
    by dianem on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:38:31 PM EST
    I suspect that there was not any wrongdoing on Obama's part involving Rezko. However, a more experienced politician would have used better judgment in his dealings with contributor's. If he had waited 8 years to run, then Rezko would be a distant memory and he would have a significant track record of positive accomplishments to balance out his bad judgment in dealing with this particular individual.

    Okay, this is what bothers me (4.33 / 6) (#13)
    by caseyOR on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:01:46 PM EST
    Obama's campaign is based on his assertion that he possesses superior judgment, as evidenced by  his 2002 Iraq War speech. As far as I can see that single moment in time may be the only time he has used good judgement. How did he not know that a big-time political fixer like Rezko was bad news? Obama didn't just have one interaction with Rezko and then figure it was a bad idea. He kept it up until he decided to run for president. My guess is that someone (Kerry, Daschle, Durbin) told Obama to cut the ties to Rezko and try to soft pedal everything.

    And what else is there to this story? Everytime Obama's campaign releases some bit of info they insist that now everything is out in the open, until the next thing comes up.

    And let me be clear-- I agree that there is no evidence that Obama did anything illegal. There is plenty of evidence that he seriously lacks judgement.

    Not ready for prime time.

    Not Illegal is not enough (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by Cream City on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:46:27 PM EST
    as it appears unethical -- and we have had too many presidents who skirted the law, stayed barely within it, but acted immorally.

    And it is unethical and immoral behavior that has brought down too many candidates before.  I fear that it will happen again in this case, by the end of the trial, months from now.

    And then where would we be, if this is our nominee?  Not for me.

    [ Parent ]

    One matter means he has bad judgment? (3.00 / 2) (#23)
    by JJE on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:05:45 PM EST
    After Clinton's litany of screw-ups?  And Obama is the one not ready for prime time?  Give me a break.

    [ Parent ]
    Well they were six months apart (5.00 / 5) (#32)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:11:42 PM EST
    He bought the house in June and the lot in December. He had six months to reconsider whether he should be doing land deals with the guy.

    [ Parent ]
    How many years passed between (none / 0) (#59)
    by JoeA on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:34:48 PM EST
    the resolution authorising military action against Iraq,  and the one sabre rattling against Iran.  Hillary's judgement didnt seem to improve any there.

    [ Parent ]
    It's time to note (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Steve M on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:40:58 PM EST
    that no fewer than 10 Senators who had the good judgment to vote against the AUMF voted for the Kyl-Lieberman amendment.  Not everyone agrees that the amendment was saber-rattling or that it gave Bush a blank check.

    [ Parent ]
    Why do I feel like I'm always repeating myself (none / 0) (#91)
    by ahazydelirium on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:50:54 PM EST
    Obama was not so consistent on his views concerning the Iraq war. As TalkLeft and eRiposte have numerously pointed out, his position on the Iraq war has shifted depending on the time.

    Hillary has shown consistency in that she acknowledged, with the gift of hindsight, she would not have voted for the war. Her votes concerning the funding of the war have been consistent with this view.

    As for the Iran vote. I'm ready to be crucified, so I'll just say it.

    The vote was not a vote for war, she said in her defense. It was designed to put diplomatic pressure on Iran. Much needed pressure. Personally, I think Iran is a terrorist country that must change. As a gay man--nay, a human being--I find the routine practice of throwing queers off cliffs in bundled sacks to be one of the worst actions in all modern history.

    While going to war is certainly not the answer, I think Hillary's vote was made in good conscience. And I don't think it is totally without merit.

    [ Parent ]

    This is getting very tiresome (5.00 / 5) (#140)
    by Marvin42 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:26:48 PM EST
    What does what Sen Clinton did or did not do have to do with Sen Obama's judgment? Does she control him remotely?

    [ Parent ]
    Here's the thing... (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by sas on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:32:49 PM EST
    HRC and McCain have had many years involvement in politics.  After that much time, things are bound to show up, that all politicians have....old enemies criticize you, you have brushes with questionable people, you make mistakes....

    What worries me with Obama is that people really don't know him.  What is his judgement, his weaknesses, his liabilities.....

    This is a huge risk we are taking, putting someone like him in power who is not well known.

    We simply do not know if Obama is ready for prime time.  Oh, and yes, he will screw up many times.


    [ Parent ]

    He has handled it poorly... (none / 0) (#185)
    by DudeE on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:22:37 PM EST
    ...as original poster stated... he claims everything has been disclosed.  oops, no not everything.  now it's all out there.  wait, not yet.

    he could get away with it 6 months ago when nobody was paying attention.  but 6 months from now when McCain and Republican 527 groups are ready to draw blood, he's going to be flattened if he can't better address these kinds of issues.

    let's even forget the substance of the scandal.  he's ill-equipped to manage the PR beyond resting on charm and media laxity.

    [ Parent ]

    Favor or not? (4.33 / 3) (#46)
    by ding7777 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:25:43 PM EST
    As a state senator, Barack Obama wrote letters to city and state officials supporting his political patron Tony Rezko's successful bid to get more than $14 million from taxpayers to build apartments for senior citizens.

    The deal included $855,000 in development fees for Rezko and his partner, Allison S. Davis, Obama's former boss, according to records from the project, which was four blocks outside Obama's state Senate district

    Why did Obama write a letter if the project is outside his district?

    How many (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by mattt on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:28:11 PM EST
    of Obama's constituents might have moved 4 blocks into this shiny new housing?

    Though, if he knew at this point that Rezko's projects had a habit of failing it's questionable.

    [ Parent ]

    You might have a point (none / 0) (#76)
    by ding7777 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:45:19 PM EST
    if Obama's only desire was helping his constituents relocate to another district.  

    But the other State Representative may not like the idea of Obama's interference; especially if that State Rep had  his own "mentor" line-up for the project.

    [ Parent ]

    Good that Obama can admit mistakes (none / 0) (#5)
    by JJE on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:53:15 PM EST
    and errors in judgment.  That's a refreshing difference from Bush and Clinton.

    Except that (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by badger on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:00:01 PM EST
    a large part of his campaign revolves around the assertion that his judgment (on the Iraq AUMF vote, for example) is superior to Clinton's.

    Now we find out he doesn't think his own judgment is so good.

    [ Parent ]

    No silly, his judgement is fine (none / 0) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:03:18 PM EST
    It's his instincts that are off but he'll lay off using instinct when he's president because Bush has proven that relying on your instincts in the oval office burns the planet down.

    [ Parent ]
    i don't think he claimed it was infallible (none / 0) (#19)
    by JJE on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:03:40 PM EST
    just better than HRC's, particularly on Iraq.  Seems accurate to me.

    [ Parent ]
    He didn't really have to use his (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:07:16 PM EST
    judgement though when it came to the AUMF now did he?  Having to send loved ones into this mess, I'm not impressed with any arm chair quarterback and when it came to playing warball Obama has funded it with the best of them.  And allowed people to remain unaccountable with the best of them.  I'm so sick of his AUMF spin.

    [ Parent ]
    Politics not Judgment (5.00 / 4) (#163)
    by suskin on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:57:37 PM EST
    I am so tired of people saying that Obama's anti war speech shows good judgment.  It was a political speech, nothing more.  And a safe one at that.
    *    Obama made the speech in 2002 when he was running for state senator in an anti-war district;
    *    In 2004, when Obama was running for the US Senate and the war in Iraq was largely supported by voters, Obama backed away from his 2002 antiwar speech by saying he had not been a US Senator at the time, and was not sure if he would have voted for or against the Authorization if he had been.  
    *    In 2007-2008, as a candidate for US President, at a time when the majority of American voters are against the War, Obama says he was always against it.
    It's politics, not judgment.  

    And the Rezko deal?  It's not about judgment either.  It's the consummate political quid pro quo - a favor - a gift -an illegal one at that.  This from the guy who sponsored ethics reform?  Obama gets a corrupt businessmen to help him buy his dream house and we're letting him off the hook as a lapse in judgment?  


    [ Parent ]

    he did (none / 0) (#30)
    by JJE on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:10:54 PM EST
    He thought it was a bad idea, she thought it was a good idea.  If you can't recognize a distinction between not funding the effort once it starts and the decision to go in in the first instance, I doubt I can convince you of much.

    [ Parent ]
    You really think that Hillary Clinton (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:20:08 PM EST
    and John Edwards thought that the AUMF was a "GOOD" idea?  I think they thought it was their best option at that time of all the available options.  I don't think that anyone I find respectable thought it was a "GOOD" idea but hey, maybe you know all these people personally and they told you it was a "GOOD" idea.  I can totally understand funding after it starts and funding without oversite because I've lived it......oh Yeah, and when he's president he can't figure this Iraq thing out without having mercs at his disposal either.  And oh yeah........if he had some trouble with Pakistan he would bomb them.  Get over yourself.  Obama is not some war is bad peacenick unless your personal denial problem insists that you must see him that way.  He would have voted for the AUMF based on everything I've heard him say and watched him vote for when military force is on the table and it is time for him to vote or say what he would do if the safety of the nation buck stopped at his desk....but he's certainly free to say that he wouldn't have because we will never really now will we?

    [ Parent ]
    they thought it was better than (none / 0) (#49)
    by JJE on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:26:29 PM EST
    voting "no".  As the rest of your post is irrelevance and ad hominem, it's not worth responding to.

    [ Parent ]
    And Obama didn't have to vote NO (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:39:37 PM EST
    He didn't have to vote anything.  He had nothing at risk and nothing to lose, but he's free to speculate all day and he does all day until I have a splitting headache listening to it.  All that can be done once the deed is done is for leadership to lead. And once he had a chance to lead on the issue of Iraq he became part of the problem and led us deeper in.  He did not begin to be part of anything leading us out.  I've begged my husband to quit the fricken military soooo many times.  I blog to keep my sanity about it and I'm reminded daily that if ALL the senior leadership leaves then kids will have to lead during this insanity and my husband doesn't believe in it and will not do it.  My husband has shown REAL leadership when the chips are down but Obama has not.  He has shown no more leadership on the done deed of Iraq than Clinton or Edwards did and Obama gets no extra kudos for doing nothing from me on the issue of Iraq.....not now, not ever.

    [ Parent ]
    John Edwards thought it was a BAD idea (none / 0) (#64)
    by JoeA on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:37:53 PM EST
    He has confirmed this, as have his advisors from the time.  He didn't want to vote for it,  Elizabeth Edwards tried to convince him to vote against it also.  His political advisors convinced him to vote for the resolution as part of a calculation to do with him running for president.  He has since acknowledged that it was a mistake and that he regrets it.

    Hillary Clinton has not acknowledged that her vote for the resolution was a mistake,  nor is it even clear that she regrets the vote which I find even more worrying with regards to any potential future confrontations with Iran.

    [ Parent ]

    I doubt she thought it was a "GOOD" idea (none / 0) (#71)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:41:06 PM EST
     

    [ Parent ]
    I'd like to think you are right. (none / 0) (#90)
    by JoeA on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 07:50:46 PM EST
    and that if she does become President she will feel strong enough to do what she thinks is right,  and not support invading a country due to some kind of electoral or political calculation about needing to appear tough.

    [ Parent ]