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Obama's 2006 Earmarks

Update: The AP says Obama has not responded to repeated requests to release his earmark legislation for six of his eightyears in the Illinois Senate. Yet, he's criticizing Hillary on this score:

While silent about Obama's spending in Illinois, his campaign has criticized Democratic presidential rival Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton for withholding similar information about her years in the U.S. Senate.

Obama communications director Robert Gibbs said Thursday that her position should prompt voters to "ask why she doesn't believe they have the right to know she wants to spend their tax dollars."

***

Sen. Barack Obama released his list of 2006 legislation with earmarks today. He has the list on his website here.

Among them, an $8 million request for the "High Explosive Air Burst Technology Program." Ultimately, $1.3 million in funding was awarded for the program. [More...]

the defense project was overseen by General Dynamics, one of the nation's largest military contractors. Obama's Illinois finance chairman, James S. Crown, serves on the company's board of directors and his family holds a sizable stake in the company.

Crown and his wife, Paula Crown, are members of Obama's National Finance Committee and have raised more than $200,000 for the Obama campaign, according to a list of fundraisers posted on Obama's campaign website.

Obama had released his 2007 list earlier, but held back on the 2006 list until today.

The request reads (from his website):

Obama Requested $8 Million And Helped Secure $1.3 Million For The High Explosive Air Burst Technology Program. In 2006, Obama requested $8 million and helped secure $1.3 million for High Explosive Air Burst Technology funding. Through General Dynamics, this project supported the 25mm Bushmaster cannon, the primary weapon on the Army Bradley Fighting Vehicle (BFV) and the US Marines’ Light Armor Vehicle (LAV). Under contract for System Design and Demonstration (SDD), GD-OTS is developing a Family of Ammunition for the Army’s Future Combat System (FCS) to include a High Explosive Air Burst (HEAB) round. This program will upgrade the capability of the current forces BFV and LAV. Additional funding for the 25mm HEAB for the SFV and LAV will ensure this program will run effectively during its planned service until 2051. [House Report 109-676 (109th Congress); Obama Request Letter To The Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense, 2006]

General Dynamics in 2006 was the largest military contractor in the world.

More on the Crown family's donations to Obama are here and from the New York Times, in an article reprinted on Obama's website, here.

Mr. Crown, whose family's investments include a major stake in the military contractor General Dynamics, said family members normally avoided taking sides in a primary, in part because it was not good for business. But with Mr. Obama, they made an exception, with 10 family members giving a total of $112,500. "I was just so personally impressed with Barack that it was worth the risk," Mr. Crown said.

More on the Crown holdings:

Founded in 1919 as a family-owned building material business, The Henry Crown Companies grew to become one of the nation's largest privately held business organizations and a major force in land development throughout the U.S. The organization's diverse interests range from large-scale office buildings such as Rockefeller Center in New York City, to Aspen Ski Company and the Ojai Resort in Ojai California. Additionally, the Crown family holds significant stock positions and board memberships in General Dynamics, JP Morgan Chase, Sara Lee, and Hilton Hotels, as well as investment holdings in the New York Yankees and Chicago Bulls.

Update: Comments over 200, thread now closed.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Okay, let's talk about how (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by jtaylorr on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:14:59 PM EST
    since starting in the US Senate, Hillary has delivered $100 million in earmarks directly benefiting 59 corporations, 65% of which have donated to her campaign.

    Last time I checked, this thread was (5.00 / 7) (#3)
    by Virginian on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:18:07 PM EST
    about Obama's earmarks...when Hillary releases hers, we'll discuss those too...but by reporting the facts, and discussing them, we are not attacking Obama, and a knee-jerk response to point the finger back at Hillary isn't appropriate.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm just presenting the facts (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by jtaylorr on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:20:21 PM EST
    because if we're talking about Obama's earmarks, it's only fair we talk about Hillary's.

    Oh and I made a typo.
    Since 2001, she's delivered $500 million in earmarks.

    [ Parent ]

    You're spinning (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Virginian on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:24:17 PM EST
    not "just presenting facts"...I think you've made your intent clear enough, so I'll leave it at that.

    [ Parent ]
    Name one thing I said (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by jtaylorr on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:26:36 PM EST
    that isn't a fact.


    [ Parent ]
    The entire concept... (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:54:54 PM EST
    ...of what is "fair" is by nature an opinion.

    [ Parent ]
    They are irrelvant (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by kredwyn on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:55:02 PM EST
    in a thread discussing Obama's earmarks...one of which appears to be in connection to the dreaded Defense Industry where
    Obama's Illinois finance chairman, James S. Crown, serves on ... [General Dynamics's] board of directors and his family holds a sizable stake in the [defense contracting] company.


    [ Parent ]
    False premise... (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:54:22 PM EST
    ...I don't recall Clinton ever making a big stink about earmarks.

    Why does Obama get to set the ground rules?  What Clinton does or does not do has no reflection on Obama.

    [ Parent ]

    Dude (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Kathy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:00:47 PM EST
    Let's make the next leap...Obama wants debates, he releases his earmarks a week or so in advance.  Earmarks get press spin so they are old news by the debate.  Obama attacks Clinton and demands she releases earmarks when/if Rezko get a mention.  Let's count the seconds for how long it takes for him to bring up the Woodstock museum (which will get tourist dollars to a depressed reason, but whatever)

    Frankly, as to earmarks, I think senators work for their state, and they get as much for their state as they can.  NY is the most populous state.  It is an International City.  Clinton has a lot of seniority.  I'm not surprised NY got more earmarks.

    [ Parent ]

    No (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by The GrandPanjandrum on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:22:09 PM EST
    NY is the most populous state.
    NY is the third most populous state with a little over 19 million people.

    [ Parent ]
    You are right (none / 0) (#52)
    by Kathy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:25:55 PM EST
    I should have said, "one of the most"

    I wonder how CA and TX senators stack up in the earmark dept.

    [ Parent ]

    Ask and ye shall receive (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:31:37 PM EST
    http://www.taxpayer.net/

    Has an Excel spreadsheet with FY08 earmarks.  State population seems to have little to do with dollar amount.

    For FY08 Clinton has $98,000 solo and $342M with other members.  Meanwhile Thad Cochran of MS has $289M solo and $837M joint.

    Obama has $3.3M solo and $98M joint.

    [ Parent ]

    Thanks (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by waldenpond on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:30:28 PM EST
    I could have used that before I copied Obama's data in to a spreadsheet and dinked with it.

    Those are some decent sized pivot tables.  Fun!

    [ Parent ]

    Finestein brings home the bacon (none / 0) (#78)
    by Radix on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:34:06 PM EST
    Don't know if I spelled her name right. shrug
    Actually, jtaylorr's post never mentions which companies received those 500mil from Clinton earmarks. I would assume they would be in NY, but not necessarily so.

    Since NY is a donor state, that is, a state whose people pay more in fed taxes than the fed spends in their state, I would argue she's a little light on the vig. No matter how you look at it, Obama used his earmarks to benefit his state, as he should, as well as himself, he is a politician after all. The fact that he is a Junior Senator with fewer earmarks to give is irrelevant to the fact that he gave all that he could.

    [ Parent ]

    Um So is she (none / 0) (#208)
    by Socraticsilence on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:51:11 PM EST
    You people who keep mentioning Obama as a "Junior Senator" relaize that this is the case for Hillary as well right?

    [ Parent ]
    LOL (none / 0) (#206)
    by Socraticsilence on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:49:34 PM EST
    "Clinton has a lot of seniority" What, how does the JR senator have a lot of Seniority?

    [ Parent ]
    I think you are mistaking... (none / 0) (#211)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:56:51 PM EST
    ...the term "junior" is only relevant in comparison to the other Senator for the state.  A "junior" Senator from West Virginia could easily be on a 3rd or 4th term...

    [ Parent ]
    I know this (none / 0) (#215)
    by Socraticsilence on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:23:10 AM EST
    I know this, I was using it for the same because everyone seems to think its relevant about Obama, but not about Hillary. By the way 1.5 terms, that's not a lot of Seniority (just geussing but it's probably like 30th of so at best among the 50+ Senate Dems

    [ Parent ]
    The opposite (none / 0) (#39)
    by waldenpond on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:12:11 PM EST
    in fact.

    [ Parent ]
    Of course Senator Clinton wouldn't make a lot of (none / 0) (#100)
    by Rigelian on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:13:54 PM EST
    noise about earmarks...she's keeping her's quiet.  I mean if someone wants to hide the earmarks they're getting why would they make a lot of noise about them?

    [ Parent ]
    LOL (none / 0) (#155)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:54:40 PM EST
    A priori logic run amok.  Every action has a sinister motive when your last name is Clinton.

    [ Parent ]
    Every action has a sinister motive.... (none / 0) (#230)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:11:02 AM EST
    when you have an "R" or a "D" after your name, if you ask me.  The sinister motive being money and power for your team and their contributors, America be damned.

    On the bright side, Jesse the Body might throw his hat in the ring...between him, Nader, and Kubby we've got some real choices.  If only the American people have the courage to think outside the crooked two-party box.

    [ Parent ]

    Um, that's hardly a typo. (5.00 / 1) (#222)
    by BrandingIron on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 01:58:37 AM EST
    You just added more of your facts to your original swingback comment.  A typo is typing "jwrk" when you meant "jerk".

    [ Parent ]
    I think it's fair... (none / 0) (#40)
    by rdandrea on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:14:29 PM EST
    ... since we're talking about earmarks, to ask about Clinton's earmarks.

    [ Parent ]
    please stick to the subject. (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by hellothere on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:51:21 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Will it still be fair to talk about Clinton's (none / 0) (#220)
    by Manuel on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 01:43:47 AM EST
    earmarks when Obama is the nominee?  Not everything has to be about Clinton.

    [ Parent ]
    assuming she actually does (none / 0) (#43)
    by JJE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:19:01 PM EST
    I wouldn't hold my breath

    [ Parent ]
    so you're a mind reader now? (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Josey on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:36:05 PM EST
    or just using an opportunity to demonize Hillary.


    [ Parent ]
    just a well-founded prediction (none / 0) (#83)
    by JJE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:40:25 PM EST
    about a secretive candidate.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama was secretive about Rezko (none / 0) (#227)
    by Josey on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:50:46 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    That's going to happen when? (none / 0) (#204)
    by Socraticsilence on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:47:45 PM EST
    So the third of never then? Seriously, Hillary could have earmarks depositing cash directly into foriegn accounts and this site wouldn''t report on it (I'm being a bit sarcastic here, BTD would have a post about it, then Jer would rationalize it).

    [ Parent ]
    No Problem there (5.00 / 6) (#11)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:32:57 PM EST
    The problem is Obama pretending he's different.


    [ Parent ]
    Talk about trying to divert the discussion! (none / 0) (#225)
    by splashy on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 03:44:23 AM EST
    This tactic is getting old. It would be nice to stick to the subject.

    We can talk about Clinton in another discussion. I am interested in knowing about this, so we can know what may influence Obama.

    [ Parent ]

    Sure looks like (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by OxyCon on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:15:13 PM EST
    ...a new kinda politics to me!

    Obama is the one promoting (5.00 / 9) (#4)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:18:43 PM EST
    himself as the ethics reform guy , campaign finance reform guy and the anti-war guy.

    Exactly (5.00 / 5) (#42)
    by Andy08 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:16:39 PM EST
    the point of this post. It is and has been Obama the one whose raison d'etre as candidate has been his
    "different kind of politics" (anti-special interests, etc etc etc.)

    What this proves sis that he is just another politician. There would be nothing wrong with it except that his "urgency" of a Presidential run was
    based on "changing Washington" and the "politics as usual"

    Ahem....


    [ Parent ]

    Yes He Can! (none / 0) (#92)
    by OxyCon on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:54:27 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Do you (none / 0) (#108)
    by Andy08 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:18:38 PM EST
    mean that "yes he can" be a hypocrite?  If so I agree!
    (O/T : are you the same OxyCon from NQ?)

    [ Parent ]
    As he should (3.50 / 4) (#48)
    by Korha on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:22:22 PM EST
    Because Obama is, in fact, the ethics reform guy and campaign finance reform guy (I'll agree that he's not anti-war, just anti-dumb war). That doesn't mean he is "perfect" or "pure"--far from it. But what it does mean is that he consistently pushes that agenda forward in the political discourse, and has a record of legislative achievement in those areas. This is in contrast to Hillary Clinton, who has never made ethics or good government reform one of her political priorities.

    If you think reform is an important and necessary priority and a prerequisite to real progressive change, as I do, then you ought to be pleased that Obama is at least being more transparent than he needs to be (again, unlike Hillary Clinton). He didn't need to reveal what he spent all his Senate earmarks on. But it's a good thing that he did. Obama has also worked on increasing government transparency while in the Senate, i.e. the bill he passed last year that organized all government spending in a searchable database online. So Obama's reform credentials are in fact real--not perfect, not ideal, but real. It is also one of the few areas where he really has a significant policy difference with Senator Clinton.

    The front page post completely ignores this important and vital context to Obama's release of his earmarks. What it does focus on is one specific earmark that benefited one of his important financial contributers, with a charge of hypocrisy is heavily implied. Of course, the RELEVANT question is not this--the earmark has to benefit somebody. The relevant question is whether the specific earmark was or was not a good one, that is, whether it was a wise or appropriate use of government money or not. If it was, then good on Obama for being an effective legislator. If it was not, then bad on him. I have no opinion on the matter because I have no idea what a "High Explosive Air Burst Technology Program" is. However, it appears Jeralyn does not know either. Shouldn't we investigate a little before throwing around accusations of hypocrisy?

    Now there is a double standard for reformers, and this is fair to some extent. But I think the double standard can go too far. Chris Bowers put this well in a post on Openleft a couple days ago:

    Above all else, there is double standard for reformers. Even the faintest whiff of impropriety by politicians who seek to reform the political, economic, or media institutions in America automatically places that politician into a double-standard. The media even admits this [i.e. when they attack Obama for taking money from people who work at companies who have lobbying arms in Washington while claiming to be reforming the system]. The subtext here is that there is not wrong with accepting lobbyist money, but there is something wrong with no being hermetically sealed from lobbyists if you calim tyou want to reform the system. There have been dozens of articles in the press working to find some sort of hypocrisy in Obama's fundraising and lobbyist money. Nowhere in these articles will you find the obvious point that Obama has taken more steps to separate himself from lobbyists more than some of his opponents in the campaign. The point in these articles isn't that Obama while not perfect, is doing better according to the same standard, but rather that Obama is worse because he should be held to a higher standard [...] Ultimately, reforming our political, media and economic systems is a higher value than being perfectly, internally consistent. Unfortunately, it its attempt to be non-ideological, the media holds a concept like consistency as a far, far higher value than it holds reform. The media takes no position on reform, but does take a position on consistency. This necessarily leads to reformers being held to a higher standards, inevitable flaws being found in anyone, the reformer appearing like a hypocrite, and then reform not taking place. In the end, by valuing consistency above things like reducing the influence of corporate money in the political process, reformers are outed as hypocrites, necessary reforms never take place and the status quo is protected.


    [ Parent ]
    Of course... (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:36:12 PM EST
    ...reformers are held to a higher standard.  Would you take credibly a cop who routinely broke the law?    How about a minister who sinned up a storm during the week and told you how to live your life come Sunday?

    The point is that reformers who don't hold themselves to the same standards they endorse are lacking in sincerity.

    [ Parent ]

    To some extent, yes, that is true (none / 0) (#110)
    by Korha on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:20:27 PM EST
    Obviously egregious hypocrisy is unacceptable. But in politics you're also never going to find anyone with perfect or pure reformist credentials. Any politician on the national stage is going to be somewhat compromised and hypocritical. Everyone's swimming in the same dirty water to some extent. The question is who is, within that system, trying to clean up the water and making it one of their priorities to clean up the water? In politics the perfect is the enemy of the good.

    I recommend this article in Harpers Magazine, which I think is a fair take on things:

    Barack Obama Inc.

    [ Parent ]

    Typically... (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:56:47 PM EST
    ...the real reformers are outside the system.

    I really don't take sincerely the ambitious political climbers and power brokers who purport to be motivated by a desire to 'change the system'

    [ Parent ]

    People who are outside the system (none / 0) (#213)
    by Korha on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:01:58 AM EST
    By definition cannot be elected to office inside the system. Look, outside pressure and agitation is obviously indispensable and necessary to any sort of reform movement. But we also need people who are our allies in positions of power. They're two sides to the same coin.

    Bottom line I think there is a clear difference between the kind of ethics and campaign finance reform policies a President Obama would pursue and a President Clinton would pursue (i.e. Clinton would not pursue those kinds of policies at all, while Obama would put some political capital into them).    

    [ Parent ]

    this comment.... (none / 0) (#71)
    by jor on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:13:00 PM EST
    ... is the perfect response to this "gotcha-like" post.  I eagerly await the other sides response.

    [ Parent ]
    oh please (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Kathy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:22:01 PM EST
    This is like being sort of pregnant.

    [ Parent ]
    Was she fer it or agin it? (none / 0) (#91)
    by Radix on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:52:16 PM EST
    Did Hillary vote up or down on this measure?

    [ Parent ]
    Yep, he advocates transparency (none / 0) (#46)
    by JJE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:21:48 PM EST
    and acts on it by releasing this information.

    [ Parent ]
    JJE (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by Andy08 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:30:22 PM EST
    do you really believe what you just wrote? So, I take it you favor special interests, politics as usual, no change; so long as he shows you that is what he is about? Makes no sense.

    What has he been stumping about all these months and months?  What was his message again?

    If that's your definition of transparency, as long a I tell you you'd be ok. with me robing a bank?

    [ Parent ]

    Nobody has shown that the earmark in question (1.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Korha on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:43:44 PM EST
    was a bad one or a good one. Can you show this? I would appreciate it, because I have no idea what a "High Explosive Air Burst Technology Program" is. Could be good or bad.

    Earmarks are not all created equal. There are good, proper ones and bad, corrupt ones. But the only way we can tell which is which is if our politicians release their list of earmarks so we know what they're spending our tax dollars on.

    Obama has taken this extra step. Clinton has not.

    [ Parent ]

    Tomato (none / 0) (#182)
    by waldenpond on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:14:06 PM EST
    Tomawto... isn't that like saying you'll vote for a staunch Republican if he's up front about his positions?  You'll disagree, but what the heck, he's honest about it.

    [ Parent ]
    He advocates... (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:37:43 PM EST
    ...selective transparency.  Should we compile a list of disclosures he's refused to make?

    [ Parent ]
    sure (none / 0) (#85)
    by JJE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:42:15 PM EST
    we can also compile a list of those Clinton has refused to make.  which list do you think will be longer?

    [ Parent ]
    Ah yes... (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:14:47 PM EST
    ...the infamous playground defense... "but but but what about HER!"


    [ Parent ]
    tu quoque (none / 0) (#129)
    by JJE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:36:05 PM EST
    is the whole point of this post.  A bit late in the day to complain about that.

    [ Parent ]
    Not really... (5.00 / 2) (#166)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:01:29 PM EST
    ...clearly it's not good enough for Obama to release his earmarks and feel good about living up to his ethical high ground.  His overarching premise is 'but where are Clinton's??'

    [ Parent ]
    But he is the one that is going (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by Florida Resident on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:25:14 PM EST
    to bring a new politics to Washington.  So we have to judge him by a higher standard.  I mean you can't be saying how sneaky and conniving Clinton is and then say it's ok for him to be like her.

    [ Parent ]
    But Clinton... (none / 0) (#96)
    by Radix on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:09:33 PM EST
    Apparently there are degrees of ethical? He's not as unethical as Hillary, see his list is shorter. Shorter, not nonexistent, there is a difference.  

    [ Parent ]
    Not Anti-War (none / 0) (#73)
    by cannondaddy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:21:58 PM EST
    He never claimed to be anti-war, just anti Iraq war, anti dumb war.

    [ Parent ]
    Jeralyn are you opposed to ethics reform (none / 0) (#102)
    by Rigelian on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:15:18 PM EST
    or you content about secret earmarks.  If yo uare content about secret earmarks could you plausibly give me an explanation why you would favor such a policy?

    [ Parent ]
    Rhetorical Logic 101... (none / 0) (#104)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:16:24 PM EST
    ...today's lesson; the false dichotomy

    [ Parent ]
    Remeber, (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by 0 politico on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:19:52 PM EST
    Chicago.  What is new politics about that?

    How about his (5.00 / 9) (#7)
    by Wile ECoyote on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:24:05 PM EST
    Earmarks that helped out his wife:

    One of Obama's Earmarks Went to Hospital That Employs Michelle Obama

    $1 Million was requested for the construction of a new hospital pavilion at the University Of Chicago. The request was put in in 2006.

    As Byron noted, "In 2006, the Chicago Tribune reported that Mrs. Obama's compensation at the University of Chicago Hospital, where she is a vice president for community affairs, jumped from $121,910 in 2004, just before her husband was elected to the Senate, to $316,962 in 2005, just after he took office."

    Earmarks are not a bad thing (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by Virginian on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:35:31 PM EST
    We need to discard this "political" notion. Earmarks are what help build roads, schools, hospitals, jobs, etc...

    Sure there are examples of STUPID earmarks, and excessive earmarks...but to always discuss earmarks as if they are something poisonous is more than a bit disingenuous...chances are...no no...fact is, as we type on this blog, and use this internet, it is a result of one of Al Gore's earmarks...

    Tell it to Obama... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:41:46 PM EST
    ...you know... the guy who never misses a chance to rail on the evil of 527s, earmarks, lobbyists or whatever his hypocritical stance du jour happens to be...

    [ Parent ]
    Right (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Korha on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:28:59 PM EST
    There are good earmarks, and bad earmarks. We should applaud our politicians for requesting good earmarks that will benefit the state/country, and hold them accountable for bad earmarks that are corrupt and suspicious. John McCain is just being an ineffective legislator by never requesting earmarks, because it means he's not getting stuff done for his state/country that he could get done.  

    But, how do we tell which earmarks are good or bad when they're all secret? This is why all earmarks should be made public and why all our politicians should release their earmarks to the public--so we can judge for ourselves what they've been doing with them.

    Barack Obama's transparency here is a good thing. I hope Clinton follows.

    [ Parent ]

    Confused (1.00 / 1) (#22)
    by waldenpond on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:54:41 PM EST
    I'm on both sides of this issue.  When the benefit is beyond the state, I might support it.  When it benefits only the state, I think the state needs to manage itself.  I'm looking at genetic mapping.. if that's for cloned beef, I don't approve.  I see soybean subsidies, I don't approve.  I am looking at the list.. it looks like sewage system upgrades.  I don't necessarily think my tax dollars should pay for that.  If it turns out to be a private/wealthier neighborhood, I'm going to be unhappy. We'll see.  I need to look at this more closely.  Looks like just another pol to me.  It's sad, but I bet I would approve of McCain's list.

    [ Parent ]
    Earmarks are necessary (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Virginian on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:59:47 PM EST
    they build infrastructure, create jobs, and build public services...how else do you propose we fund these costs as a nation (we are a nation, not a collection of smaller states and localities).

    [ Parent ]
    I agree (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Kathy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:03:17 PM EST
    earmarks are there for a reason.  It's when ego projects get done (bridge to nowhere) that I have a problem with them.

    Of course, living in the south, knowing history (such as one of the root problems the south had with the north pre-Civil War was sending our tax dollars up to build roads in New England while no money was sent back here for our roads), I think that there is a good potential for corruption in the earmark system, and I am glad that we have more transparency now.  Of course, every senator knew the reform was coming, even Obama, so they cleaned up their earmarks real pretty-like in 2005-2006.

    [ Parent ]

    excuse me? (5.00 / 1) (#214)
    by cpinva on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:09:23 AM EST
    what "tax dollars" might you be referring to, since the income tax, as we kind of know it, didn't even come into existence until after the civil war started, in late 1861.

    boy, that's a new rationalization for starting a war over slavery. next you're going to tell me it was all about "stat's raht's" too. that would be, um, uh, the right to own slaves i believe.

    [ Parent ]

    Without earmarks and limitations (none / 0) (#61)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:41:00 PM EST
    George Bush and his cronies would have had a series of huge lum sums of money at their disposal to do with what they wished.  Not that that didn't sort of happen, but Congress is supposed to decide how money is spent - not the Executive Branch.

    [ Parent ]
    If they are that important they (5.00 / 1) (#226)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:12:37 AM EST
    should be requested via a bill, not attatched.

    [ Parent ]
    Here, Here (none / 0) (#231)
    by waldenpond on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:53:52 AM EST
    Thank you for saying the obvious.

    [ Parent ]
    One of the problems with earmarks (none / 0) (#35)
    by ding7777 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:05:07 PM EST
    is that the legislators will inflate a budget bill knowing earmarks will be made.

    If they would budget according to what the government actually needs, budget bills would be smaller (that's the theory anyway)

    [ Parent ]

    Earmarks may not be a bad thing but (none / 0) (#68)
    by Rigelian on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:04:03 PM EST
    to determine whether they are a bad or good thing they must be disclosed.  Transparency is at least a requirement for oversight.  Barack Obama has released his earmarks...what possible excuse could Hilary Clinton have for not releasing hers?

    [ Parent ]
    New politics indeed! (5.00 / 6) (#14)
    by davnee on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:41:43 PM EST
    Sure Clinton and McCain do the same thing when it comes to pork and payoffs.  But that is the whole point.  Obama's in no position to put on ethical airs.  He's an ordinary, every day pol.  Now if he happens to be the pol you like best or think can do the most for you and your country, then more power to you.  Get thee to the polls.  But don't pretend he's worthy of the presidency because he's above it all.  I don't want to hear that argument any more.

    Selective disclosure... (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:01:07 PM EST
    ...the bigger point is that Obama has appointed himself the arbiter of what's worthy of disclosure and what's not.  You get the '06 tax return but not the '05 or earlier.  You get the earmarks but not the list of attendees at Rezko fundraisers.  Blabbity blah.

    [ Parent ]
    law firm billing hours (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Kathy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:03:44 PM EST
    please.

    [ Parent ]
    As well as... (none / 0) (#82)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:39:51 PM EST
    ...the non-existent records, memos, schedules from 8 years in the Illinois Senate.  Zippo.

    [ Parent ]
    Go check it out (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by waldenpond on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:42:02 PM EST
    Obama supporters think it was 'gutsy' of Obama to release his earmarks.  Shows new politics/transparency.  I disagree, but then I'm not a supporter.  I thought that he didn't release them until he was forced to by McCain was kind of too little, too late.


    hmm, if i told you the moon was blue? (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by hellothere on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:55:43 PM EST
    would you believe me? i didn't think so. all these passes obama gets won't continue in the general election. it won't be pretty.

    [ Parent ]
    This argument is akin... (none / 0) (#25)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:56:22 PM EST
    ...to having a candidate confess to wrong-doing and the sycophants swoon that "at least he was honest about it!"

    groan

    [ Parent ]

    Good for Obama (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:45:50 PM EST
    I really have no problem with "earmarks" or other such budget provisos, per se, as long as the process is open and above-board, and the attendant results are subject to public scrutiny.

    I'm not of the opinion... (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:51:54 PM EST
    ... that this makes him any different from Hillary. Of course, that's the point.

    What is your opinion based on? (none / 0) (#97)
    by Rigelian on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:11:11 PM EST
    Look he pushed for transparency and has acted consistent with the transparency.  Senator Clinton in contrast has not.  That makes him different from Senator Clinton.  The question is whether this difference is relevant for you or not.  From my perspective I welcome this transparency...perhaps you can explain to me why you wouldn't?

    [ Parent ]
    Still not getting it... (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:23:48 PM EST
    http://sweetness-light.com/archive/shocker-the-press-asks-obama-questions

    ...columnist Carol Marin with the Chicago Sun-Times -- broke in. Marin, a visitor to the Obama entourage who accused the regulars of being too "quiet," accused the candidate of concealing details about fundraisers Rezko had for him and a real estate transaction between the two.

    "I don't think it's fair to suggest somehow that we've been trying to hide the ball on this," Obama answered. But this only provoked a noisy back-and-forth between Marin, Sun-Times colleague Lynn Sweet and Michael Flannery from Chicago's CBS affiliate. "How many fundraisers? . . . Who was there? . . . Disclosure of the closing documents?"

    Obama, while repeating his formulation that it was "a boneheaded move" to do business with Rezko, tried to shut down the requests for more information. "These requests, I think, could just go on forever," he said. "At some point, what we need to try to do is respond to what's pertinent."

    [ Parent ]

    urls must be in html format (none / 0) (#223)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:02:52 AM EST
    or they skew the site and your comment will be deleted. Use the link button at the top of the comment box.

    [ Parent ]
    My question is: Is General Dynamics (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by hairspray on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:58:26 PM EST
    a company in Illinois that employs thousands of Illinois residents and brings lots of money into the community?

    A quick check of their company website... (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by jor on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:09:17 PM EST
    ... shows they have three offices in illinois, but it is not their home base.

    [ Parent ]
    That's what I'd like to know. (none / 0) (#38)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:10:06 PM EST
    It is Obama's job to fight for his constituents, just like it's Hillary's, and for that matter McCain's. I don't really have a problem with any Senator fighting for defensible spending that creates jobs in their state, even if it does benefit a contributor.

    [ Parent ]
    do you have a problem (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by Kathy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:20:41 PM EST
    with eleven slums operating in Obama's state senate district?

    [ Parent ]
    I think Obama's district... (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:25:02 PM EST
    ... has always had slums, and I'm sure his options for getting rid of them were limited. But I'm not an Obama supporter, and I'm aware of the Rezko business. I think Obama's a good politician who negotiated his way pretty well through Chicago's notoriously messy politics. Since I don't put him on a pedestal, that's okay with me. I just don't know if his apostles can accept it.

    [ Parent ]
    I have a problem (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Kathy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:30:43 PM EST
    with his not taking care of people in his district who were living in squalor.  I want a president who tries to help those people instead of blaming them for the environment in which they live.

    I think it speaks to character.

    [ Parent ]

    I don't disagree... (none / 0) (#64)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:44:16 PM EST
    ... but I also accept that Obama would probably never have gotten out of the state senate if he did that. Not being overly starry-eyed about him, I can accept that. I think it's something his true believers might take issue with, though.

    [ Parent ]
    Mr. Change... (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:55:56 PM EST
    ...can apparently remake national politics in his image but can't address the slums in his small corner of Chicago.  It's hyperbole when it suits the argument and a mea culpa that there was nothing he could do when it doesn't...

    Yes we can.  Except when we can't.

    [ Parent ]

    Do you have a problem with the slums operating in (none / 0) (#70)
    by Rigelian on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:11:01 PM EST
    in the State of New York.  It's not like New York State doesn't have ecoomically disadvantage areas?  Has Senator Clinton fixed all of this?

    [ Parent ]
    Senator Clinton's district (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by Kathy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:20:45 PM EST
    is in upstate New York which, if I am recalling from my visits, isn't exactly filled with public housing.  I do recall, however, that she worked very closely with NY while President Clinton was in office to help Cisneros push through a law that made it possible to evict drug dealers from public housing if they were caught and convicted instead of sending them back into the housing projects.  This was nation-wide, not just in NY, and she was the face of this program.  She did a poverty tour.  Very Bobby Kennedy-esque.

    Clinton has also worked aggressively to get public housing re-opened in NO, which is a hotbutton issue  to say the least.  I am recalling this from memory, but I believe she has a bill or cosponsored a bill that had strict penalties for criminals trying to game public housing in NO.  See, she doesn't just offer blanket solutions, she thinks them out to the next step.

    I wonder what Obama did while he was in the IL senate?  Oh, wait, he won't release all of his records.  Hm...curious.

    [ Parent ]

    Senator Clinton represents the entire state (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by JJE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:48:48 PM EST
    She doesn't have a district.  Good lord.

    [ Parent ]
    my bad--late night for me (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Kathy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:32:45 PM EST
    You are right, I was wrong about districting.

    Now that I've admitted that, would you address the rest of my comment about what she has done re: public housing while Obama had ELEVEN SLUMS IN HIS DISTRICT where people were living in squalor, had no heat or trash pick-up, and he never noticed, but could take the time to write letters on behalf of his friend Rezko, who, by the way, at that time could not afford to pay the bills to have the heat on but still managed to raise money for Obama's campaigns as well as help oil the purchase of Obama's mansion?

    Come on--I admitted I goofed.  Now you answer my question, and don't use the words "But Clinton did" anywhere.  Just answer the questions about Obama and his district.  The one with the 11 slums.  

    [ Parent ]

    What was he supposed to do? (none / 0) (#142)
    by JJE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:44:30 PM EST
    Wave a magic wand and eliminate you?  It seems anything short of that would fail to satisfy you.

    That drug dealer eviction law you're so fond of, by the way, has been used to evict people from public housing simply because one member of their family is involved in drug activity.

    [ Parent ]

    What was he supposed to do? (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by Kathy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:49:18 PM EST
    ADMIT THAT IT HAPPENED.  His response when he was asked about eleven slums where people in his district were living in squalor was to say that he was not aware of it, then to make some blanket remark about people of a certain demographic and crime.

    That's okay with you?

    [ Parent ]

    Ack (none / 0) (#143)
    by JJE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:44:56 PM EST
    I meant "eliminate poverty" not "eliminate you".  Sorry about that.

    [ Parent ]
    I am tired (none / 0) (#165)
    by waldenpond on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:00:13 PM EST
    I'm sure I have the info somewhere, but didn't his wife get in to a conflict with some of the people from the housing.  I don't see how he could be unaware.

    [ Parent ]
    Not Sure If This Is (none / 0) (#76)
    by squeaky on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:31:15 PM EST
    The same, but the family of a drug dealer, which is a nonviolent crime, also gets evicted. And when a convicted drug has finished serving his or her sentence, there is often no where for them to live. Should they choose to move in with their family who lives in  public housing everyone gets evicted.

    Seems incredibly unfair to me, for the person who has done their time and the family that is trying to help them out after prison.

    For HRC fans I doubt BHO is any better on this kind of nonsense.

    [ Parent ]

    Senator Clinton is a Senator (none / 0) (#95)
    by Rigelian on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:06:11 PM EST
    Meaning that her district is the entire state not upstate New York.  Is Senator Clinton responsible for all of the slums in New York State?  If so, why hasn't she fixed it?

    [ Parent ]
    When did Hillary and Obama (none / 0) (#111)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:21:25 PM EST
    start working for the House of Representatives?

    [ Parent ]
    Well, that's the risk he's taking. (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:09:23 PM EST
    The marketing concept underscoring Sen. Obama's entire presidential campaign has been pretty much predicated upon the general idea that the candidate himself is the proverbial "man on the white horse." As no less than the Goddess Oprah herself has ordained, "He is The One."

    Therefore, his supporters best realize that anything holding potential for soiling their favorite son's mount -- i.e., the Rezko trial, the NAFTA controversy, the remarks of Rev. Jeremiah Wright -- is going to appear far more problematic to the general public, than any dirt that was affixed long ago to the shoes of his rival.

    McCain has some degree of the same... (none / 0) (#45)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:20:53 PM EST
    ... except that much of the Republican base doesn't really like that aspect of him, so showing that he's a phony might actually make them feel better.

    Hillary may have other flaws, but she more or less embraces the sausage-making aspect of politics, and is who she appears to be.

    [ Parent ]

    Tell me if I'm wrong (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by waldenpond on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:14:46 PM EST
    wasn't his wife involved with the County board that approved the division?  I can't remember where I saw that so I could be wrong.

    The Crowns mentioned in the earmark (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by RalphB on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:34:54 PM EST
    are the same family who was the major stockholder of Maytag with the plant closing in Illinois Obama brought up earlier in the campaign.  Remember the union president with Clinton in Ohio excoriating Obama.

    Same family, more contributions, no help for the union or workers.  Same Obama.


    Chicago Tribune article on (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:44:28 PM EST
    Obama, Crown and Maytag is here.

    [ Parent ]
    no insults here please (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:46:10 PM EST


    Jeralyn (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Andy08 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:13:11 PM EST
    The Obama's earmarks for General Dynamics and its ties to Chicago's Crown family seems peculiar
    given what happened to the Maytag workers.
    What do you think?
    Please check:
    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/13/obamas-2006-earmarks-the-crown-family/

    Gave NQ a link to your post here.

    It's interesting that you use the information (none / 0) (#105)
    by Rigelian on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:16:28 PM EST
    about earmarks to formulate questions about Obama and yet don't seem to be concerned with the fact that Senator Clinton doesn't identify hers?  

    [ Parent ]
    This is very warped... (5.00 / 3) (#118)
    by DudeE on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:27:12 PM EST