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FL Congressional Delegation Needs To Smell The Coffee

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:16:47 PM EST
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By Big Tent Democrat

Speaking for me only.

So the Florida Congressional Delegation is said to oppose the only viable plan for a revote in Florida:

[A]fter meeting with Mr. Nelson on Tuesday night, Florida’s Democratic members of the House of Representatives added a serious new wrinkle by announcing they were unanimously opposed to a mail-in contest. They did not elaborate, but released a statement that said, “Our House delegation is opposed to a mail-in campaign or any redo of any kind.” The statement also said the delegation was committed to working with state and national Democrats and the two candidates “to reach an expedited solution that ensures our 210 delegates are seated.”

It is too late for sitting down for more blather. Senator Bill Nelson has the plan, the financing plans and the preapproval of Howard Dean. This is the only way to have a representative Florida delegation seated. The Florida Congressional delegation has a dollar and a dream. They have done no work at all on this. These Florida Congresspersons will find they have hell to pay if they are the obstacles to seating the Florida delegation. The Florida Democratic Party is submitting this plan. Period. What do these Congresspersons plan to do? Be the reason why Florida does not have a delegation at the Convention? They need to get over it and get with the plan.

NOTE - Comments are now closed.

< Florida Finalizes Mail In Revote Plan | Final MS Recap >

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    FL Congressional Delegation Needs To Smell The Coffee | 202 comments (202 topical)

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    Florida Full Primary (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Coral Gables on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:56:37 PM EST
    A full primary has been deemed impossible as there are 15 different counties in the process of changing out touch screen machines for ones with a paper trail for the presidential election.

    It will be by mail or a fight at the convention. We don't need a floor fight at the convention.

    BTD, what are the chances the FL (none / 0) (#1)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:20:45 PM EST
    delegation will be seated according to the Jan results? I think the Obama plan is to stall on re-votes, using his allies like this Congressmen to help him, and then leave seating the delegation as is the only option. Obama will then argue that has already been decided against. Therefore, very unfortunately, the FL votes can't count.

    The simplest, cheapest, fairest thing is to count the votes from Jan.

    Hastings and Wasserman-Schultz... (none / 0) (#6)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:23:39 PM EST
    ... are not allies of Obama.

    The Clinton Campaign today announced that Florida Reps. Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Congressman Alcee Hastings have been named national Campaign Co-Chairs.

    "We need a leader with a clear vision and sound judgment, who can work with a Democratic Congress to renew the promise of America. Hillary is that leader," Rep. Wasserman Schultz said.

    Rep. Hastings said, "When we elect the next President Clinton, this country will be a much better place for the African-American community, Floridians and all Americans."

    Both Reps. Wasserman Schultz and Hastings serve in the Democratic leadership in the House of Representatives, and Hastings is the Vice Chair of Florida's congressional delegation.

    "I am delighted that Debbie and Alcee will take on leadership roles in my campaign," Clinton said. "With their help, we will bring our message of change throughout Florida and across the country."



    [ Parent ]
    Sigh (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:25:52 PM EST
    You are determined aren't you?

    So when the Clinton campaign presses for the revote then what will you say?

    [ Parent ]

    Still. . . (none / 0) (#22)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:29:32 PM EST
    why the opposition from these congresspeople?

    [ Parent ]
    Cause they are idiots (none / 0) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:36:40 PM EST
    who think they can get a full blown revote primary?

    [ Parent ]
    Doesn't sound like it. . . (none / 0) (#58)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:39:42 PM EST
    when they say:

    "Our House delegation is opposed to a mail-in campaign or any redo of any kind."

    Sounds like they want to fight it out for the existing vote which I think is stupid for any number of reasons, most not having to do with the possible effect on Clinton's campaign.

    [ Parent ]

    Then they are really stupider (none / 0) (#67)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:42:24 PM EST
    than I thought.

    That ship has sailed.

    [ Parent ]

    Are they opposed (none / 0) (#199)
    by MKS on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:23:24 AM EST
    to mail-in votes as a matter of principle--because it could be used against them in their own elections....

    This really makes no sense.....All of the Democrats in the Florida House oppose the mail-in plan?  Must be a bargaining position.....

    [ Parent ]

    I don't think that's their motivation. (none / 0) (#70)
    by corn on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:43:06 PM EST
    Wisely or not, I think they are offended by the dismissal of their first vote and they don't want to let it go.

    [ Parent ]
    Let's wake up and (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:44:07 PM EST
    smell the coffee shall we?

    [ Parent ]
    meaning what? (none / 0) (#86)
    by corn on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:48:00 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    With you there (none / 0) (#154)
    by blogtopus on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:15:24 PM EST
    It's a "my way or the highway" kind of mentality they've gotten into.

    How much can they screw things up? How much say do they have on how things are done, and what can they do if things aren't done their way? I'm not sure about these questions. BTD? Anyone? Bueller?

    [ Parent ]

    I'll say, "Bully for you!" (none / 0) (#32)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:32:54 PM EST
    And I'll ask, "Why is your campaign in such disarray?"

    [ Parent ]
    My campaign? (none / 0) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:36:08 PM EST
    Yes this is MY campaign for a revote.

    I take full credit for it.

    Thank you for giving it to me.

    [ Parent ]

    I wasn't saying that to you, BTD. (none / 0) (#54)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:39:06 PM EST
    I was saying that to Hillary, for doing the right thing.

    Though if you are willing to take credit for that mess, you're a braver man than I.

    [ Parent ]

    IF a revote happens? (none / 0) (#65)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:41:14 PM EST
    And I get the credit? I will have saved the Dems bacon in Florida and Michigan. PLEASE give me the credit.

    [ Parent ]
    Actually, the mess I was talking about... (none / 0) (#83)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:47:03 PM EST
    ... was Hillary's mess of a campaign.

    [ Parent ]
    Huh? they're already pressing for it, right? (none / 0) (#37)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:34:25 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Not officially (none / 0) (#41)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:35:33 PM EST
    Look for it tomorrow or the next day.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (none / 0) (#15)
    by Steve M on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:27:45 PM EST
    So what about Obama supporters Robert Wexler and Kathy Castor, also from the "unanimous" Florida delegation?  Have they secretly joined the Borg as well?

    You can make 100 posts declaring Hastings and Wasserman-Schultz the ringleaders but you'll still have to deal with this inconvenient fact.

    [ Parent ]

    Hastings made the statement for the group. (none / 0) (#40)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:34:57 PM EST
    'Sall I'm saying.

    Debbie Wasserman-Schultz was emphatic on Fox News Sunday.

    Why is she fighting against the Hillary campaign she is a part of?

    [ Parent ]

    Believe it or not (none / 0) (#49)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:37:45 PM EST
    Not EVERYBODY is SOLELY motivated by their endorsement of a candidate.

    I am not assuming Wexler is acting on behalf of Obama. Are you?

    [ Parent ]

    I'm asking questions... (none / 0) (#63)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:40:32 PM EST
    ... and sharing the information I have.

    I don't claim to have all the answers.

    [ Parent ]

    Oh you don't? (none / 0) (#72)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:43:33 PM EST
    Sure. I do not mind the ridicule on this. No one was with me at all on this a month ago.

    But do not insult my intelligence please.

    [ Parent ]

    This issue (none / 0) (#91)
    by katiebird on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:50:20 PM EST
    is what drew me to your site.  And your posts on it kept me here.  

    And I know from the response to my comments (attempting to talk about it) on other blogs that you were indeed very much alone a month ago.  A month ago talking about ways to get FL & MI included at the convention were totally dismissed.  The Rules are Rules response.  

    [ Parent ]

    Okay (none / 0) (#107)
    by Steve M on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:55:44 PM EST
    and do you contend Hastings has Wexler and Castor locked in a closet?  Because you're being awfully strident about this.

    [ Parent ]
    So many people were presuming... (none / 0) (#193)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:59:18 PM EST
    ... on absolutely no evidence other than relative melanin content, that Hastings was working for Obama.  I had to look it up myself, and figured that  if I had to look it up to be sure, it would be useful information to provide.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (none / 0) (#198)
    by Steve M on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 12:30:50 AM EST
    To provide 20 times?

    As BTD says, do not insult our intelligence.

    [ Parent ]

    As many times as misinformation... (none / 0) (#204)
    by tbetz on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:13:18 AM EST
    ... is presented, it needs to be corrected.

    [ Parent ]
    This is truly bizarre (none / 0) (#113)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:57:59 PM EST
    The January primary results won't count and any delegation based on it won't be seated. I can understand state party officials and elected Dems in the legislature being adamant because they are in part responsible. But it would seem that the Congressional delegation is playing chicken. Clinton would probably still win, and very possibly win with numbers near January's.

    If now Clinton's people in Florida somehow block this I'm not sure how it would play out in November, but it will hurt Clinton at the convention. If Clinton really wants a do-over she better get on the horn with her people down there.

    [ Parent ]

    I ronically, Clinton would probably (none / 0) (#152)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:14:54 PM EST
    win again lol.  I mean what is she waiting for?  She could claim the prize of winning Florida twice.

    [ Parent ]
    ZERO!!! (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:24:48 PM EST
    LESS THAN ZERO!!!

    [ Parent ]
    So then Obama is playing it smart. (none / 0) (#13)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:26:36 PM EST
    If he has the political muscle to block a re-vote, then he may win the nomination this way.
    Whoopee.

    [ Parent ]
    Why are so many Clinton supporters (none / 0) (#18)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:28:10 PM EST
    not getting behind this?

    [ Parent ]
    Are they supporters of Clinton now? (none / 0) (#28)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:31:03 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    A supermajority of the Democratic delegation (none / 0) (#30)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:32:06 PM EST
    is.

    [ Parent ]
    Because (none / 0) (#53)
    by MichaelGale on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:39:00 PM EST
    we already voted!

    [ Parent ]
    You go with that (none / 0) (#62)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:40:13 PM EST
    Dean ain't budging. Hell, he thinks Obama is going to win and he wants to stay the DNC Chairman.

    No revote suits him fine.

    [ Parent ]

    Okay then (none / 0) (#124)
    by MichaelGale on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:00:45 PM EST
    If the voters of Florida mean what they are saying, and that is a big fat NO, then Howard Dean
    is going to be the jerk in all this.  

    Howard can again explain his "rules" and his arrogant dismissal of a couple of million Florida
    Democrats.

    [ Parent ]

    Noooo (none / 0) (#130)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:02:33 PM EST
    This is a viable plan that will cost Florida nothing.

    If this gets blocked, it become THEIR FAULT and no one leses. Not Dean's. Not Brazile's. Not Obama's. No one but their fault.

    [ Parent ]

    I disagree with you (none / 0) (#201)
    by MMW on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 07:47:00 AM EST
    I have never seen why Florida should revote. I don't buy the arguments you're putting forward. It was a fair election and it should count. It doesn't matter that Clinton would win again, great, but it delegitimizes the votes of those who did vote.

    This is to make everyone else particularly Obama campaign feel better. Had they won, this would not be an issue - it's another double standard.

    Michigan I buy the argument for, but not Florida. And it will reflect on Dean, not Florida as you think. Dean CREATED this mess, Florida did not. They are not compelled to have a revote of an already fair election. It's time someone in the Democratic party got some brass ones.

    [ Parent ]

    He's not going to win the nomination (none / 0) (#19)
    by katiebird on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:28:46 PM EST
    by blocking the re-vote.

    I don't know what he thinks he's doing, but he needs MI & FL on that floor -- and he needs to win one of them.

    [ Parent ]

    Who's "he" (none / 0) (#61)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:40:11 PM EST
    This is about the Florida democratic delegation apparently acting like idiots.  A re-vote needs to happen.

    [ Parent ]
    Political muscle? (none / 0) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:28:52 PM EST
    You mean the FL congressional delegation? NO, they are being idiots thinking they can get a full blown revote primary.

    They can not. They will fall in line. Dopes.

    [ Parent ]

    And it always seemed like (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:29:55 PM EST
     Bill Nelson was the dope. I guess there's a reason he's the Senator and they're all not. . .

    [ Parent ]
    Bill Nelson knows what can be done (none / 0) (#38)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:34:40 PM EST
    and what can't be done.

    A week ago, Nelson opposed ALL REVOTES!!!

    [ Parent ]

    The others are acting like George Bush (none / 0) (#46)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:37:10 PM EST
    This is really pretty simple: the situation has changed, and they need to take the best deal they can get. It's such a good deal for them that the person most of them didn't endorse opposes it. DUH

    [ Parent ]
    Just stupid (none / 0) (#52)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:38:24 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I'm reading the Florida press (none / 0) (#50)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:37:48 PM EST
    and others online there on this, and a couple of things seem to be surfacing:

    -- they still want the original vote and delegates recognized;

    -- they are getting pressure from state legislators, and that gets really complex as it is GOP-controlled and the state has budgetary problems;

    -- there is no assurance about covering the cost, and they think that Florida will get stuck with it.

    Above all, this is rushed -- as Florida faces a deadline in a few days of getting this done and approved and getting it going to abide by laws such as that ballots have to be received by military overseas at least 45 days before the election.  Lots of other laws, deadlines, and factors, but this comments is long enough to suggest that it may look simple from here, but. . . .

    [ Parent ]

    Stuck with the costs? (none / 0) (#55)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:39:16 PM EST
    Then condition it on fundraising. But the plan has to go to the DNC NOW!!

    [ Parent ]
    I bet it is. And I bet this could tell (none / 0) (#138)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:06:11 PM EST
    Carville and Corzine to pick up the phone NOW.

    [ Parent ]
    What? (none / 0) (#66)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:42:19 PM EST
    They are opposed b/c they are holding out for a full-blown primary?  Obama was on the losing side of this narrative before this happened.  Hopefully HRC (or someone) slaps them upside the head.

    [ Parent ]
    But he'll lose the General Election (none / 0) (#172)
    by Curtis93433 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:35:53 PM EST
    If Obama choses to not seat Florida as is or declines a revote he will have a serious back lash in the general election.

    [ Parent ]
    Counting the votes from January is the RIGHT (none / 0) (#27)
    by Angel on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:30:35 PM EST
    thing to do.  Honestly.  

    [ Parent ]
    I would agree with you (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by litigatormom on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:36:59 PM EST
    but it's not going to happen.  Obama will not accept it, and it can't be imposed over his objections.

    A full primary would be the next best alternative, but no one can pay for one.

    So the mail-in becomes the only practical alternative.

    [ Parent ]

    Why should his objections enable (none / 0) (#56)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:39:16 PM EST
    disenfranchisement? It's ridiculous.

    [ Parent ]
    Control (none / 0) (#79)
    by waldenpond on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:45:59 PM EST
    The credential committee is split between Obama and Clinton.  Neither can get a majority decision.  The rules committee on the other hand will approve a vote.  It leans more heavily Clinton and it will be able to reach a majority decision.

    [ Parent ]
    So does a plan automatically (none / 0) (#136)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:05:11 PM EST
    go to one committee or the other -- or does the staff aka Dean and Brazile get to decide which?

    I've worked on enough boards to see staff work the committees as they want to do to achieve the staff's desired result.

    [ Parent ]

    So hold your breath until you turn blue (none / 0) (#126)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:01:01 PM EST
    and then cry in your beer. Hell of a plan.

    [ Parent ]
    well, I don't have any say in the matter. (none / 0) (#131)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:02:39 PM EST
    If Obama cheats so brazenly to win, then a lot of Democrats are staying home  in Nov.
    How many votes is he costing himself by choosing this course of action?

    [ Parent ]
    What cheating? What course of action? (none / 0) (#153)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:15:14 PM EST
    In September 2007, Hillary said that Florida and Michigan shouldn't count.

    Sep 1, 2007 4:02 PM
    Clinton Campaign Statement

    The following is a statement by Clinton Campaign Manager Patti Solis Doyle.

    "We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process.

    And we believe the DNC's rules and its calendar provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role.

    Thus, we will be signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar."

    Then suddenly, in February, she wants to change the rules.

    So exactly how is Obama cheating here?  Exactly what course of action is he taking that constitutes cheating?

    [ Parent ]

    Uhhh..... (none / 0) (#169)
    by Oje on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:32:48 PM EST
    TalkLeft, been there and done that.

    [ Parent ]
    You are talking about two different (none / 0) (#179)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:42:12 PM EST
    issues, and you could look it up.  I'm too tired to do the work again.

    [ Parent ]
    This was for tbetz (nt) (none / 0) (#181)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:43:16 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    don't bother posting misinformation here (none / 0) (#182)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:43:59 PM EST
    as others have said, that's false and we've covered it extensively.

    [ Parent ]
    As others have said... (none / 0) (#194)
    by tbetz on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 12:02:57 AM EST
    ... accepting the votes from a primary as yours is about the most intimate form of participation in said primary imaginable.

    The pledge was, "I shall not campaign or participate".

    So don't try to high-hat me, sister.

    [ Parent ]

    Excuse me (none / 0) (#195)
    by blogtopus on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 12:09:01 AM EST
    But Jeralyn wasn't condescending or direspectful to you, and treated your argument with the attention it deserves in light of the fact that she posted the 'rules' in full yesterday and wrote about it. The comment boards there are all you need to see the argument you are trying to make.

    There's no need to 'sister' her, that's just out of line.

    [ Parent ]

    Excuse me... (none / 0) (#197)
    by tbetz on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 12:26:44 AM EST
    .. I thought using an ancient expression like that would be sufficient snark alert for anyone.

    It seems that I was wrong.

    Should I go with a smiley face next time?

    [ Parent ]

    It certainly isn't (none / 0) (#102)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:54:28 PM EST
    You can't change the stakes after you know the outcome.  There are many names for that kind of thing.  Among them are "fraud" and "bait and switch".  It's really troubling that Democrats fail to grasp this basic principle of Western democracy.

    [ Parent ]
    Despite Jeralyn's post yesterday (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:07:15 PM EST
    the candidates agreed to neither campaign nor PARTICIPATE in the Florida and Michigan primaries.

    Seems to me that demanding delegates from a primary that the DNC ruled would not count is "participating." Afterall, getting delegates from an election is the most important participation you can have.

    [ Parent ]

    that's not what participating means (none / 0) (#184)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:44:50 PM EST
    look it up.

    [ Parent ]
    The principle we understand is counting (none / 0) (#105)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:55:32 PM EST
    votes.

    [ Parent ]
    Real votes made by real voters in real elections (none / 0) (#119)
    by Angel on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:59:39 PM EST
    for real reasons.  

    [ Parent ]
    The voters in Jan. had real reasons, and (1.00 / 0) (#123)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:00:44 PM EST
    their real votes should be counted. If this is what you are saying I agree. If not, you are  a sophist.

    [ Parent ]
    What's really troubling (none / 0) (#117)
    by xspowr on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:59:25 PM EST
    is the number of "Democrats" that fail to grasp the basic principle of Western democracy called "every vote counts," even when it's inconvenient for their candidate.

    [ Parent ]
    Is there really not a pragmatic one (none / 0) (#2)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:21:24 PM EST
    in the bunch? Meek, Wasserman-Schultz, Klein, Hastings?

    I don't get their angle here.

    they all support Hillary? (none / 0) (#8)
    by Josey on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:23:58 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Think so (none / 0) (#14)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:27:31 PM EST
    And those who didn't before can read a poll.

    [ Parent ]
    No. They're 50-50, I think (nt) (none / 0) (#203)
    by Cream City on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 10:20:44 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Look at me, Look at me (none / 0) (#33)
    by waldenpond on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:32:57 PM EST
    They get a bunch of media attention for themselves and their state, they get to look like they are working hard for their constituents, they get to see if they really look 10 pds heavier on camera.

    They get to look like obstructionist jerks.

    [ Parent ]

    Their constituents are not pleased (none / 0) (#35)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:33:46 PM EST
    Believe you me, they will catch hell for this.

    [ Parent ]
    They hate their interns. (none / 0) (#39)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:34:49 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Maybe not.. Again, in the Florida press, (none / 0) (#68)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:42:50 PM EST
    it seems that they are responding to constituents saying that they want their original votes to count.

    [ Parent ]
    Not any constituents I know of (none / 0) (#77)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:45:12 PM EST
    I am in Florida BTW. If they block this, they will get slammmed. HARD.

    [ Parent ]
    While I am far from Florida (none / 0) (#100)
    by Steve M on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:54:24 PM EST
    it seems unlikely to me that the people of Florida would be clamoring for something and the congressional delegation would line up UNANIMOUSLY to block it.  Something else must be afoot.

    [ Parent ]
    they are clamoring for (none / 0) (#121)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:59:49 PM EST
    their voices to be heard. Anyway it gets done.

    This is the opposite of getting it done.

    [ Parent ]

    That's not true (none / 0) (#76)
    by MichaelGale on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:44:22 PM EST
    Comments on television and in the press are just the opposite. Constituents do not want a revote and they do not want to pay again to vote.

    So in reality, she is doing exactly what her constituents want her to do.

    [ Parent ]

    I am in Florida too (none / 0) (#80)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:46:21 PM EST
    and you are not reading or seeing what I am seeing.

    The cost will NOT be borne by Florida.

    Wake up and smell the coffee.

    Consider how they will look when it is apparent they are against the onyl way to get a representative delegation seated.

    [ Parent ]

    What if there is a different result? (Obama wins) (none / 0) (#202)
    by MMW on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 07:56:46 AM EST
    How will that square with the original vote and Floridians? Will they accept it? Will there be another battle again?

    What if Clinton Blows Obama out by more? Will Obama campaign accept this vote or will they want the original?

    I really want answers to these. This is like one more try - no no no let's try again, and again until I get an answer that works for me.

    Sorry I don't get why votes (legitimate votes) should be canned and redone.

    [ Parent ]

    Other than being Super-Ds, what power (none / 0) (#162)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:28:34 PM EST
    does the FL delegation to Congress have re credential committee, rules committee, etc. regarding seating of the present FL delegates?  Also, are they one of the parts of the equation for re-vote whose approval is required?  

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah, why are Alcee Hastings... (none / 0) (#3)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:21:51 PM EST
    ... and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz so determined to block a re-vote?

    Who could they possibly be doing this for?

    The situation has changed (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:23:15 PM EST
    and a revote is good for Hillary now.

    [ Parent ]
    I wouldn't go that far (none / 0) (#74)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:43:54 PM EST
    But it's probably a wash for her at worst.  At the very least it's worse than being seen as stomping your feet and insisting that the results of the fake election count.

    [ Parent ]
    The election was not "fake." And you (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Angel on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:46:52 PM EST
    know it and have been told that before on this blog.  It was a level playing field, everyone was on the ballot, etc., etc.  The people of FL thought it was a real election.  Real people voted in a real election for real reasons.  Okay?

    [ Parent ]
    It was not sanctioned (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:11:58 PM EST
    People were told it did not count. All candidates agreed not to campaign or PARTICIPATE. Demanding that the election count is a form of participation.  

    [ Parent ]
    No candidate is demanding here (none / 0) (#183)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:44:48 PM EST
    -- what are you talking about?  These are members of Congress from Florida.

    [ Parent ]
    Just because "I've been told it" (none / 0) (#160)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:23:24 PM EST
    by people who don't care much about basic fairness either as a general matter or because it hurts their candidate, doesn't mean it's true.  You are aware that Florida is one of only two states where Dem turnout was lower than GOP turnout compared to previous elections, don't you?

    If you're so fond of bogus contests, let's flip a coin.  Loser pays the winner one dollar.  I may decide to raise the stakes to $1 million, but I won't tell you if I'm going to do that until after the flip.  I'm sure you'll go for that.  It's as "real" as the Florida elections, after all.

    [ Parent ]

    As it was a record-turnout primary (none / 0) (#185)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:45:34 PM EST
    what you say doesn't compute.

    [ Parent ]
    Doesn't make any sense. (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:25:23 PM EST
    Clinton wants this re-vote, or she should.  Really badly.  It's her only hope of a clear-cut victory.

    No idea why the congresspeople are causing problems but it's no benefit to Clinton.

    [ Parent ]

    Boy you are determined to be foolish (none / 0) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:24:13 PM EST
    Believe me, I KNOW the Clinton campaign wants a revote. I know it. You will know it too in the next few days.

    [ Parent ]
    Then why are these Clinton surrogates... (none / 0) (#21)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:29:06 PM EST
    ... opposing it so strongly?

    I heard Wasserman-Schultz practically rip Obama fan Stephanie Miller's head off over the phone the other day.  She's a huge Hillary advocate.  But here she and Hastings are, fighting tooth and nail against what you insist are the campaign's interest.  Is Hillary's campaign really in that much disarray?

    [ Parent ]

    Could it be stupidity? (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:33:10 PM EST
    Ever heard of Congressperson being idiots before? No?

    [ Parent ]
    Or ever hear of politicians saying (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:47:37 PM EST
    what they have to say for their constituents to hear to protect themselves -- and then caving later and saying they were forced to do so?  

    Didn't Nelson start out against this and come over?

    Just saying.  ALL in the House are up for re-election this fall, after all.  (And see upthread re what may be between the lines in the Florida press on this re anger of constituents who want their votes to count.)

    If they're doing what they have to do to save Dem seats in the House, despite what the DNC is doing to endanger those seats, they may know what they're doing for different reasons than we can see.

    [ Parent ]

    Indeed (none / 0) (#115)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:58:49 PM EST
    THAT is the point. Nelson knows the jig is up. No more time for games.

    Time to get behind the plan. Period.

    [ Parent ]

    I don't think the Congressional group (none / 0) (#129)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:02:33 PM EST
    is blocking the fax machine.

    They're too busy saying what their constituents want to hear, just as Nelson did a few days ago.

    He was part of their meeting tonight, btw.  Maybe passing on tips on how to get cover with their constituents?

    [ Parent ]

    She should have ripped harder (1.00 / 1) (#48)
    by RalphB on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:37:26 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I had to rate you a 1 because (none / 0) (#99)
    by jerry on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:53:26 PM EST
    Normally, I only rate posts up.

    But Stephanie Miller is my future wife().  So you had to be rated down.

    () Stephanie Miller fans should understand.

    Yes, yes, yes, she is a pod person at the moment, but once we break the spell, she will come back to sanity.  And if we can't break the spell, I will eagerly drink the potion and work to get my pod next to hers.

    Don't be hating on Stephanie Miller!

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry hahahahahaha (none / 0) (#137)
    by RalphB on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:05:44 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I'm glad you understand.... :) (none / 0) (#140)
    by jerry on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:07:09 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    So Miller was advocating a re-vote? (none / 0) (#29)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:32:06 PM EST
    say it ain't so!

    [ Parent ]
    She's all for it. (none / 0) (#118)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:59:26 PM EST
    It's the right thing to do.

    [ Parent ]
    LOL.. please give me a link. (none / 0) (#134)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:03:50 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Well, I can give you a link... (none / 0) (#173)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:37:07 PM EST
    ... to an MP3 of the phone interview segment.

    Will that do?

    [ Parent ]

    I can't believe no one gets this... (none / 0) (#59)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:39:46 PM EST
    The more the Clinton-supporting members of the Florida Congressional delegation push for a re-vote, the more it looks like they are doing it because it would help their candidate.  By not pushing for it, and looking like they are being  dragged kicking and screaming to get behind it, the more impartial they look.  

    When they "grudgingly" fall in line with the decision to do it, Hillary is standing on the moral high ground - all by herself - looking like the heroine who cares about the principles of all voices being counted, and Obama - as he continues to hem and haw and equivocate and stick his finger in the political wind, just looks more and more self-interested.

    The voters of Florida will thank Hillary for caring enough to fight for their voices, by coming out in even larger numbers to vote for her.

    She wins this one no matter what.

    [ Parent ]

    This is wildly convoluted (none / 0) (#78)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:45:37 PM EST
    and unpersuasive.  If they kick and scream it looks like HRC wants the sham results to count, and only reluctantly agrees.  People aren't going to draw a distinction between HRC surrogates and the HRC campaign.

    [ Parent ]
    Nonsense (none / 0) (#84)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:47:13 PM EST
    The time for posturing is over. the time to get behind the plan is NOW!

    [ Parent ]
    Know (none / 0) (#57)
    by corn on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:39:17 PM EST
    as in, a little birdie told you this, or as in, you just know it.

    [ Parent ]
    Wait and see (none / 0) (#112)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:57:48 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    nice hedge (none / 0) (#143)
    by corn on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:08:05 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Sheesh (none / 0) (#145)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:10:32 PM EST
    I am rather sick of the lot of you tonight.

    See you later.

    [ Parent ]

    I think you're right , Big TD (none / 0) (#149)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:14:17 PM EST
    I hope there is a followup story. Something that gives a little insight into their position.

    [ Parent ]
    I think the florida delegation is working with (none / 0) (#4)
    by athyrio on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:22:28 PM EST
    Obama to ensure that there is no revote....After all the "good ole boys" of the democratic party have all endorsed him....

    Well, obviously. I think it's important for the (none / 0) (#7)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:23:48 PM EST
    Clinton surrogates to make it clear that the only options are a re-vote, or seating the delegation according to the Jan. results.

    [ Parent ]
    These aren't Obama people (none / 0) (#36)
    by Socraticsilence on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:34:24 PM EST
    The vast majority of these people, are and aleays have been Hillary people, I don't think this is a move by either camp I think; like BTD is saying, they're just being stupid.

    [ Parent ]
    If Sen. Obama is behind the stall (none / 0) (#16)
    by zfran on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:27:51 PM EST
    tactics, then he is practicing "politics as usual" which he has been preaching against. If Sen. Obama is not behind this stall and his supporters in the Fl legislature are pushing this, then shame on them for speaking against Sen. Obama's talking points of change in Washington (albeit Florida). I don't understand (still) how people are still blindly following Sen. Obama and think he's going to "change" everything. He still hasn't said "HOW" he's going to go about this. Gee, didn't GWB talk about being a uniter not a divider and how he could "bring us all together." Sen. Obama is a politician and had to "play the game" (and I believe still is) to get where he is now!!!

    He is not behind this (none / 0) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:29:45 PM EST
    Not everything is a nefarious shceme.

    Some things are just sheer stupidity.

    [ Parent ]

    Sounds like it. (none / 0) (#26)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:30:20 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    FL Voters (<