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FL Congressional Delegation Needs To Smell The Coffee

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:16:47 PM EST
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By Big Tent Democrat

Speaking for me only.

So the Florida Congressional Delegation is said to oppose the only viable plan for a revote in Florida:

[A]fter meeting with Mr. Nelson on Tuesday night, Florida’s Democratic members of the House of Representatives added a serious new wrinkle by announcing they were unanimously opposed to a mail-in contest. They did not elaborate, but released a statement that said, “Our House delegation is opposed to a mail-in campaign or any redo of any kind.” The statement also said the delegation was committed to working with state and national Democrats and the two candidates “to reach an expedited solution that ensures our 210 delegates are seated.”

It is too late for sitting down for more blather. Senator Bill Nelson has the plan, the financing plans and the preapproval of Howard Dean. This is the only way to have a representative Florida delegation seated. The Florida Congressional delegation has a dollar and a dream. They have done no work at all on this. These Florida Congresspersons will find they have hell to pay if they are the obstacles to seating the Florida delegation. The Florida Democratic Party is submitting this plan. Period. What do these Congresspersons plan to do? Be the reason why Florida does not have a delegation at the Convention? They need to get over it and get with the plan.

NOTE - Comments are now closed.

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    FL Congressional Delegation Needs To Smell The Coffee | 202 comments (202 topical)

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    Florida Full Primary (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Coral Gables on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:56:37 PM EST
    A full primary has been deemed impossible as there are 15 different counties in the process of changing out touch screen machines for ones with a paper trail for the presidential election.

    It will be by mail or a fight at the convention. We don't need a floor fight at the convention.

    BTD, what are the chances the FL (none / 0) (#1)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:20:45 PM EST
    delegation will be seated according to the Jan results? I think the Obama plan is to stall on re-votes, using his allies like this Congressmen to help him, and then leave seating the delegation as is the only option. Obama will then argue that has already been decided against. Therefore, very unfortunately, the FL votes can't count.

    The simplest, cheapest, fairest thing is to count the votes from Jan.

    Hastings and Wasserman-Schultz... (none / 0) (#6)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:23:39 PM EST
    ... are not allies of Obama.

    The Clinton Campaign today announced that Florida Reps. Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Congressman Alcee Hastings have been named national Campaign Co-Chairs.

    "We need a leader with a clear vision and sound judgment, who can work with a Democratic Congress to renew the promise of America. Hillary is that leader," Rep. Wasserman Schultz said.

    Rep. Hastings said, "When we elect the next President Clinton, this country will be a much better place for the African-American community, Floridians and all Americans."

    Both Reps. Wasserman Schultz and Hastings serve in the Democratic leadership in the House of Representatives, and Hastings is the Vice Chair of Florida's congressional delegation.

    "I am delighted that Debbie and Alcee will take on leadership roles in my campaign," Clinton said. "With their help, we will bring our message of change throughout Florida and across the country."



    Parent
    Sigh (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:25:52 PM EST
    You are determined aren't you?

    So when the Clinton campaign presses for the revote then what will you say?

    Parent

    Still. . . (none / 0) (#22)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:29:32 PM EST
    why the opposition from these congresspeople?

    Parent
    Cause they are idiots (none / 0) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:36:40 PM EST
    who think they can get a full blown revote primary?

    Parent
    Doesn't sound like it. . . (none / 0) (#58)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:39:42 PM EST
    when they say:

    "Our House delegation is opposed to a mail-in campaign or any redo of any kind."

    Sounds like they want to fight it out for the existing vote which I think is stupid for any number of reasons, most not having to do with the possible effect on Clinton's campaign.

    Parent

    Then they are really stupider (none / 0) (#67)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:42:24 PM EST
    than I thought.

    That ship has sailed.

    Parent

    Are they opposed (none / 0) (#199)
    by MKS on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:23:24 AM EST
    to mail-in votes as a matter of principle--because it could be used against them in their own elections....

    This really makes no sense.....All of the Democrats in the Florida House oppose the mail-in plan?  Must be a bargaining position.....

    Parent

    I don't think that's their motivation. (none / 0) (#70)
    by corn on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:43:06 PM EST
    Wisely or not, I think they are offended by the dismissal of their first vote and they don't want to let it go.

    Parent
    Let's wake up and (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:44:07 PM EST
    smell the coffee shall we?

    Parent
    meaning what? (none / 0) (#86)
    by corn on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:48:00 PM EST


    Parent
    With you there (none / 0) (#154)
    by blogtopus on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:15:24 PM EST
    It's a "my way or the highway" kind of mentality they've gotten into.

    How much can they screw things up? How much say do they have on how things are done, and what can they do if things aren't done their way? I'm not sure about these questions. BTD? Anyone? Bueller?

    Parent

    I'll say, "Bully for you!" (none / 0) (#32)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:32:54 PM EST
    And I'll ask, "Why is your campaign in such disarray?"

    Parent
    My campaign? (none / 0) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:36:08 PM EST
    Yes this is MY campaign for a revote.

    I take full credit for it.

    Thank you for giving it to me.

    Parent

    I wasn't saying that to you, BTD. (none / 0) (#54)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:39:06 PM EST
    I was saying that to Hillary, for doing the right thing.

    Though if you are willing to take credit for that mess, you're a braver man than I.

    Parent

    IF a revote happens? (none / 0) (#65)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:41:14 PM EST
    And I get the credit? I will have saved the Dems bacon in Florida and Michigan. PLEASE give me the credit.

    Parent
    Actually, the mess I was talking about... (none / 0) (#83)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:47:03 PM EST
    ... was Hillary's mess of a campaign.

    Parent
    Huh? they're already pressing for it, right? (none / 0) (#37)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:34:25 PM EST


    Parent
    Not officially (none / 0) (#41)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:35:33 PM EST
    Look for it tomorrow or the next day.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#15)
    by Steve M on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:27:45 PM EST
    So what about Obama supporters Robert Wexler and Kathy Castor, also from the "unanimous" Florida delegation?  Have they secretly joined the Borg as well?

    You can make 100 posts declaring Hastings and Wasserman-Schultz the ringleaders but you'll still have to deal with this inconvenient fact.

    Parent

    Hastings made the statement for the group. (none / 0) (#40)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:34:57 PM EST
    'Sall I'm saying.

    Debbie Wasserman-Schultz was emphatic on Fox News Sunday.

    Why is she fighting against the Hillary campaign she is a part of?

    Parent

    Believe it or not (none / 0) (#49)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:37:45 PM EST
    Not EVERYBODY is SOLELY motivated by their endorsement of a candidate.

    I am not assuming Wexler is acting on behalf of Obama. Are you?

    Parent

    I'm asking questions... (none / 0) (#63)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:40:32 PM EST
    ... and sharing the information I have.

    I don't claim to have all the answers.

    Parent

    Oh you don't? (none / 0) (#72)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:43:33 PM EST
    Sure. I do not mind the ridicule on this. No one was with me at all on this a month ago.

    But do not insult my intelligence please.

    Parent

    This issue (none / 0) (#91)
    by katiebird on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:50:20 PM EST
    is what drew me to your site.  And your posts on it kept me here.  

    And I know from the response to my comments (attempting to talk about it) on other blogs that you were indeed very much alone a month ago.  A month ago talking about ways to get FL & MI included at the convention were totally dismissed.  The Rules are Rules response.  

    Parent

    Okay (none / 0) (#107)
    by Steve M on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:55:44 PM EST
    and do you contend Hastings has Wexler and Castor locked in a closet?  Because you're being awfully strident about this.

    Parent
    So many people were presuming... (none / 0) (#193)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:59:18 PM EST
    ... on absolutely no evidence other than relative melanin content, that Hastings was working for Obama.  I had to look it up myself, and figured that  if I had to look it up to be sure, it would be useful information to provide.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#198)
    by Steve M on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 12:30:50 AM EST
    To provide 20 times?

    As BTD says, do not insult our intelligence.

    Parent

    As many times as misinformation... (none / 0) (#204)
    by tbetz on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:13:18 AM EST
    ... is presented, it needs to be corrected.

    Parent
    This is truly bizarre (none / 0) (#113)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:57:59 PM EST
    The January primary results won't count and any delegation based on it won't be seated. I can understand state party officials and elected Dems in the legislature being adamant because they are in part responsible. But it would seem that the Congressional delegation is playing chicken. Clinton would probably still win, and very possibly win with numbers near January's.

    If now Clinton's people in Florida somehow block this I'm not sure how it would play out in November, but it will hurt Clinton at the convention. If Clinton really wants a do-over she better get on the horn with her people down there.

    Parent

    I ronically, Clinton would probably (none / 0) (#152)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:14:54 PM EST
    win again lol.  I mean what is she waiting for?  She could claim the prize of winning Florida twice.

    Parent
    ZERO!!! (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:24:48 PM EST
    LESS THAN ZERO!!!

    Parent
    So then Obama is playing it smart. (none / 0) (#13)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:26:36 PM EST
    If he has the political muscle to block a re-vote, then he may win the nomination this way.
    Whoopee.

    Parent
    Why are so many Clinton supporters (none / 0) (#18)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:28:10 PM EST
    not getting behind this?

    Parent
    Are they supporters of Clinton now? (none / 0) (#28)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:31:03 PM EST


    Parent
    A supermajority of the Democratic delegation (none / 0) (#30)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:32:06 PM EST
    is.

    Parent
    Because (none / 0) (#53)
    by MichaelGale on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:39:00 PM EST
    we already voted!

    Parent
    You go with that (none / 0) (#62)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:40:13 PM EST
    Dean ain't budging. Hell, he thinks Obama is going to win and he wants to stay the DNC Chairman.

    No revote suits him fine.

    Parent

    Okay then (none / 0) (#124)
    by MichaelGale on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:00:45 PM EST
    If the voters of Florida mean what they are saying, and that is a big fat NO, then Howard Dean
    is going to be the jerk in all this.  

    Howard can again explain his "rules" and his arrogant dismissal of a couple of million Florida
    Democrats.

    Parent

    Noooo (none / 0) (#130)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:02:33 PM EST
    This is a viable plan that will cost Florida nothing.

    If this gets blocked, it become THEIR FAULT and no one leses. Not Dean's. Not Brazile's. Not Obama's. No one but their fault.

    Parent

    I disagree with you (none / 0) (#201)
    by MMW on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 07:47:00 AM EST
    I have never seen why Florida should revote. I don't buy the arguments you're putting forward. It was a fair election and it should count. It doesn't matter that Clinton would win again, great, but it delegitimizes the votes of those who did vote.

    This is to make everyone else particularly Obama campaign feel better. Had they won, this would not be an issue - it's another double standard.

    Michigan I buy the argument for, but not Florida. And it will reflect on Dean, not Florida as you think. Dean CREATED this mess, Florida did not. They are not compelled to have a revote of an already fair election. It's time someone in the Democratic party got some brass ones.

    Parent

    He's not going to win the nomination (none / 0) (#19)
    by katiebird on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:28:46 PM EST
    by blocking the re-vote.

    I don't know what he thinks he's doing, but he needs MI & FL on that floor -- and he needs to win one of them.

    Parent

    Who's "he" (none / 0) (#61)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:40:11 PM EST
    This is about the Florida democratic delegation apparently acting like idiots.  A re-vote needs to happen.

    Parent
    Political muscle? (none / 0) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:28:52 PM EST
    You mean the FL congressional delegation? NO, they are being idiots thinking they can get a full blown revote primary.

    They can not. They will fall in line. Dopes.

    Parent

    And it always seemed like (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:29:55 PM EST
     Bill Nelson was the dope. I guess there's a reason he's the Senator and they're all not. . .

    Parent
    Bill Nelson knows what can be done (none / 0) (#38)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:34:40 PM EST
    and what can't be done.

    A week ago, Nelson opposed ALL REVOTES!!!

    Parent

    The others are acting like George Bush (none / 0) (#46)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:37:10 PM EST
    This is really pretty simple: the situation has changed, and they need to take the best deal they can get. It's such a good deal for them that the person most of them didn't endorse opposes it. DUH

    Parent
    Just stupid (none / 0) (#52)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:38:24 PM EST


    Parent
    I'm reading the Florida press (none / 0) (#50)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:37:48 PM EST
    and others online there on this, and a couple of things seem to be surfacing:

    -- they still want the original vote and delegates recognized;

    -- they are getting pressure from state legislators, and that gets really complex as it is GOP-controlled and the state has budgetary problems;

    -- there is no assurance about covering the cost, and they think that Florida will get stuck with it.

    Above all, this is rushed -- as Florida faces a deadline in a few days of getting this done and approved and getting it going to abide by laws such as that ballots have to be received by military overseas at least 45 days before the election.  Lots of other laws, deadlines, and factors, but this comments is long enough to suggest that it may look simple from here, but. . . .

    Parent

    Stuck with the costs? (none / 0) (#55)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:39:16 PM EST
    Then condition it on fundraising. But the plan has to go to the DNC NOW!!

    Parent
    I bet it is. And I bet this could tell (none / 0) (#138)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:06:11 PM EST
    Carville and Corzine to pick up the phone NOW.

    Parent
    What? (none / 0) (#66)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:42:19 PM EST
    They are opposed b/c they are holding out for a full-blown primary?  Obama was on the losing side of this narrative before this happened.  Hopefully HRC (or someone) slaps them upside the head.

    Parent
    But he'll lose the General Election (none / 0) (#172)
    by Curtis93433 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:35:53 PM EST
    If Obama choses to not seat Florida as is or declines a revote he will have a serious back lash in the general election.

    Parent
    Counting the votes from January is the RIGHT (none / 0) (#27)
    by Angel on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:30:35 PM EST
    thing to do.  Honestly.  

    Parent
    I would agree with you (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by litigatormom on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:36:59 PM EST
    but it's not going to happen.  Obama will not accept it, and it can't be imposed over his objections.

    A full primary would be the next best alternative, but no one can pay for one.

    So the mail-in becomes the only practical alternative.

    Parent

    Why should his objections enable (none / 0) (#56)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:39:16 PM EST
    disenfranchisement? It's ridiculous.

    Parent
    Control (none / 0) (#79)
    by waldenpond on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:45:59 PM EST
    The credential committee is split between Obama and Clinton.  Neither can get a majority decision.  The rules committee on the other hand will approve a vote.  It leans more heavily Clinton and it will be able to reach a majority decision.

    Parent
    So does a plan automatically (none / 0) (#136)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:05:11 PM EST
    go to one committee or the other -- or does the staff aka Dean and Brazile get to decide which?

    I've worked on enough boards to see staff work the committees as they want to do to achieve the staff's desired result.

    Parent

    So hold your breath until you turn blue (none / 0) (#126)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:01:01 PM EST
    and then cry in your beer. Hell of a plan.

    Parent
    well, I don't have any say in the matter. (none / 0) (#131)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:02:39 PM EST
    If Obama cheats so brazenly to win, then a lot of Democrats are staying home  in Nov.
    How many votes is he costing himself by choosing this course of action?

    Parent
    What cheating? What course of action? (none / 0) (#153)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:15:14 PM EST
    In September 2007, Hillary said that Florida and Michigan shouldn't count.

    Sep 1, 2007 4:02 PM
    Clinton Campaign Statement

    The following is a statement by Clinton Campaign Manager Patti Solis Doyle.

    "We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process.

    And we believe the DNC's rules and its calendar provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role.

    Thus, we will be signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar."

    Then suddenly, in February, she wants to change the rules.

    So exactly how is Obama cheating here?  Exactly what course of action is he taking that constitutes cheating?

    Parent

    Uhhh..... (none / 0) (#169)
    by Oje on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:32:48 PM EST
    TalkLeft, been there and done that.

    Parent
    You are talking about two different (none / 0) (#179)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:42:12 PM EST
    issues, and you could look it up.  I'm too tired to do the work again.

    Parent
    This was for tbetz (nt) (none / 0) (#181)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:43:16 PM EST


    Parent
    don't bother posting misinformation here (none / 0) (#182)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:43:59 PM EST
    as others have said, that's false and we've covered it extensively.

    Parent
    As others have said... (none / 0) (#194)
    by tbetz on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 12:02:57 AM EST
    ... accepting the votes from a primary as yours is about the most intimate form of participation in said primary imaginable.

    The pledge was, "I shall not campaign or participate".

    So don't try to high-hat me, sister.

    Parent

    Excuse me (none / 0) (#195)
    by blogtopus on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 12:09:01 AM EST
    But Jeralyn wasn't condescending or direspectful to you, and treated your argument with the attention it deserves in light of the fact that she posted the 'rules' in full yesterday and wrote about it. The comment boards there are all you need to see the argument you are trying to make.

    There's no need to 'sister' her, that's just out of line.

    Parent

    Excuse me... (none / 0) (#197)
    by tbetz on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 12:26:44 AM EST
    .. I thought using an ancient expression like that would be sufficient snark alert for anyone.

    It seems that I was wrong.

    Should I go with a smiley face next time?

    Parent

    It certainly isn't (none / 0) (#102)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:54:28 PM EST
    You can't change the stakes after you know the outcome.  There are many names for that kind of thing.  Among them are "fraud" and "bait and switch".  It's really troubling that Democrats fail to grasp this basic principle of Western democracy.

    Parent
    Despite Jeralyn's post yesterday (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:07:15 PM EST
    the candidates agreed to neither campaign nor PARTICIPATE in the Florida and Michigan primaries.

    Seems to me that demanding delegates from a primary that the DNC ruled would not count is "participating." Afterall, getting delegates from an election is the most important participation you can have.

    Parent

    that's not what participating means (none / 0) (#184)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:44:50 PM EST
    look it up.

    Parent
    The principle we understand is counting (none / 0) (#105)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:55:32 PM EST
    votes.

    Parent
    Real votes made by real voters in real elections (none / 0) (#119)
    by Angel on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:59:39 PM EST
    for real reasons.  

    Parent
    The voters in Jan. had real reasons, and (1.00 / 0) (#123)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:00:44 PM EST
    their real votes should be counted. If this is what you are saying I agree. If not, you are  a sophist.

    Parent
    What's really troubling (none / 0) (#117)
    by xspowr on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:59:25 PM EST
    is the number of "Democrats" that fail to grasp the basic principle of Western democracy called "every vote counts," even when it's inconvenient for their candidate.

    Parent
    Is there really not a pragmatic one (none / 0) (#2)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:21:24 PM EST
    in the bunch? Meek, Wasserman-Schultz, Klein, Hastings?

    I don't get their angle here.

    they all support Hillary? (none / 0) (#8)
    by Josey on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:23:58 PM EST


    Parent
    Think so (none / 0) (#14)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:27:31 PM EST
    And those who didn't before can read a poll.

    Parent
    No. They're 50-50, I think (nt) (none / 0) (#203)
    by Cream City on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 10:20:44 AM EST


    Parent
    Look at me, Look at me (none / 0) (#33)
    by waldenpond on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:32:57 PM EST
    They get a bunch of media attention for themselves and their state, they get to look like they are working hard for their constituents, they get to see if they really look 10 pds heavier on camera.

    They get to look like obstructionist jerks.

    Parent

    Their constituents are not pleased (none / 0) (#35)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:33:46 PM EST
    Believe you me, they will catch hell for this.

    Parent
    They hate their interns. (none / 0) (#39)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:34:49 PM EST


    Parent
    Maybe not.. Again, in the Florida press, (none / 0) (#68)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:42:50 PM EST
    it seems that they are responding to constituents saying that they want their original votes to count.

    Parent
    Not any constituents I know of (none / 0) (#77)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:45:12 PM EST
    I am in Florida BTW. If they block this, they will get slammmed. HARD.

    Parent
    While I am far from Florida (none / 0) (#100)
    by Steve M on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:54:24 PM EST
    it seems unlikely to me that the people of Florida would be clamoring for something and the congressional delegation would line up UNANIMOUSLY to block it.  Something else must be afoot.

    Parent
    they are clamoring for (none / 0) (#121)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:59:49 PM EST
    their voices to be heard. Anyway it gets done.

    This is the opposite of getting it done.

    Parent

    That's not true (none / 0) (#76)
    by MichaelGale on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:44:22 PM EST
    Comments on television and in the press are just the opposite. Constituents do not want a revote and they do not want to pay again to vote.

    So in reality, she is doing exactly what her constituents want her to do.

    Parent

    I am in Florida too (none / 0) (#80)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:46:21 PM EST
    and you are not reading or seeing what I am seeing.

    The cost will NOT be borne by Florida.

    Wake up and smell the coffee.

    Consider how they will look when it is apparent they are against the onyl way to get a representative delegation seated.

    Parent

    What if there is a different result? (Obama wins) (none / 0) (#202)
    by MMW on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 07:56:46 AM EST
    How will that square with the original vote and Floridians? Will they accept it? Will there be another battle again?

    What if Clinton Blows Obama out by more? Will Obama campaign accept this vote or will they want the original?

    I really want answers to these. This is like one more try - no no no let's try again, and again until I get an answer that works for me.

    Sorry I don't get why votes (legitimate votes) should be canned and redone.

    Parent

    Other than being Super-Ds, what power (none / 0) (#162)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:28:34 PM EST
    does the FL delegation to Congress have re credential committee, rules committee, etc. regarding seating of the present FL delegates?  Also, are they one of the parts of the equation for re-vote whose approval is required?  

    Parent
    Yeah, why are Alcee Hastings... (none / 0) (#3)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:21:51 PM EST
    ... and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz so determined to block a re-vote?

    Who could they possibly be doing this for?

    The situation has changed (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:23:15 PM EST
    and a revote is good for Hillary now.

    Parent
    I wouldn't go that far (none / 0) (#74)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:43:54 PM EST
    But it's probably a wash for her at worst.  At the very least it's worse than being seen as stomping your feet and insisting that the results of the fake election count.

    Parent
    The election was not "fake." And you (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Angel on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:46:52 PM EST
    know it and have been told that before on this blog.  It was a level playing field, everyone was on the ballot, etc., etc.  The people of FL thought it was a real election.  Real people voted in a real election for real reasons.  Okay?

    Parent
    It was not sanctioned (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:11:58 PM EST
    People were told it did not count. All candidates agreed not to campaign or PARTICIPATE. Demanding that the election count is a form of participation.  

    Parent
    No candidate is demanding here (none / 0) (#183)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:44:48 PM EST
    -- what are you talking about?  These are members of Congress from Florida.

    Parent
    Just because "I've been told it" (none / 0) (#160)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:23:24 PM EST
    by people who don't care much about basic fairness either as a general matter or because it hurts their candidate, doesn't mean it's true.  You are aware that Florida is one of only two states where Dem turnout was lower than GOP turnout compared to previous elections, don't you?

    If you're so fond of bogus contests, let's flip a coin.  Loser pays the winner one dollar.  I may decide to raise the stakes to $1 million, but I won't tell you if I'm going to do that until after the flip.  I'm sure you'll go for that.  It's as "real" as the Florida elections, after all.

    Parent

    As it was a record-turnout primary (none / 0) (#185)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:45:34 PM EST
    what you say doesn't compute.

    Parent
    Doesn't make any sense. (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:25:23 PM EST
    Clinton wants this re-vote, or she should.  Really badly.  It's her only hope of a clear-cut victory.

    No idea why the congresspeople are causing problems but it's no benefit to Clinton.

    Parent

    Boy you are determined to be foolish (none / 0) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:24:13 PM EST
    Believe me, I KNOW the Clinton campaign wants a revote. I know it. You will know it too in the next few days.

    Parent
    Then why are these Clinton surrogates... (none / 0) (#21)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:29:06 PM EST
    ... opposing it so strongly?

    I heard Wasserman-Schultz practically rip Obama fan Stephanie Miller's head off over the phone the other day.  She's a huge Hillary advocate.  But here she and Hastings are, fighting tooth and nail against what you insist are the campaign's interest.  Is Hillary's campaign really in that much disarray?

    Parent

    Could it be stupidity? (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:33:10 PM EST
    Ever heard of Congressperson being idiots before? No?

    Parent
    Or ever hear of politicians saying (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:47:37 PM EST
    what they have to say for their constituents to hear to protect themselves -- and then caving later and saying they were forced to do so?  

    Didn't Nelson start out against this and come over?

    Just saying.  ALL in the House are up for re-election this fall, after all.  (And see upthread re what may be between the lines in the Florida press on this re anger of constituents who want their votes to count.)

    If they're doing what they have to do to save Dem seats in the House, despite what the DNC is doing to endanger those seats, they may know what they're doing for different reasons than we can see.

    Parent

    Indeed (none / 0) (#115)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:58:49 PM EST
    THAT is the point. Nelson knows the jig is up. No more time for games.

    Time to get behind the plan. Period.

    Parent

    I don't think the Congressional group (none / 0) (#129)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:02:33 PM EST
    is blocking the fax machine.

    They're too busy saying what their constituents want to hear, just as Nelson did a few days ago.

    He was part of their meeting tonight, btw.  Maybe passing on tips on how to get cover with their constituents?

    Parent

    She should have ripped harder (1.00 / 1) (#48)
    by RalphB on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:37:26 PM EST


    Parent
    I had to rate you a 1 because (none / 0) (#99)
    by jerry on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:53:26 PM EST
    Normally, I only rate posts up.

    But Stephanie Miller is my future wife().  So you had to be rated down.

    () Stephanie Miller fans should understand.

    Yes, yes, yes, she is a pod person at the moment, but once we break the spell, she will come back to sanity.  And if we can't break the spell, I will eagerly drink the potion and work to get my pod next to hers.

    Don't be hating on Stephanie Miller!

    Parent

    Sorry hahahahahaha (none / 0) (#137)
    by RalphB on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:05:44 PM EST


    Parent
    I'm glad you understand.... :) (none / 0) (#140)
    by jerry on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:07:09 PM EST


    Parent
    So Miller was advocating a re-vote? (none / 0) (#29)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:32:06 PM EST
    say it ain't so!

    Parent
    She's all for it. (none / 0) (#118)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:59:26 PM EST
    It's the right thing to do.

    Parent
    LOL.. please give me a link. (none / 0) (#134)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:03:50 PM EST


    Parent
    Well, I can give you a link... (none / 0) (#173)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:37:07 PM EST
    ... to an MP3 of the phone interview segment.

    Will that do?

    Parent

    I can't believe no one gets this... (none / 0) (#59)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:39:46 PM EST
    The more the Clinton-supporting members of the Florida Congressional delegation push for a re-vote, the more it looks like they are doing it because it would help their candidate.  By not pushing for it, and looking like they are being  dragged kicking and screaming to get behind it, the more impartial they look.  

    When they "grudgingly" fall in line with the decision to do it, Hillary is standing on the moral high ground - all by herself - looking like the heroine who cares about the principles of all voices being counted, and Obama - as he continues to hem and haw and equivocate and stick his finger in the political wind, just looks more and more self-interested.

    The voters of Florida will thank Hillary for caring enough to fight for their voices, by coming out in even larger numbers to vote for her.

    She wins this one no matter what.

    Parent

    This is wildly convoluted (none / 0) (#78)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:45:37 PM EST
    and unpersuasive.  If they kick and scream it looks like HRC wants the sham results to count, and only reluctantly agrees.  People aren't going to draw a distinction between HRC surrogates and the HRC campaign.

    Parent
    Nonsense (none / 0) (#84)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:47:13 PM EST
    The time for posturing is over. the time to get behind the plan is NOW!

    Parent
    Know (none / 0) (#57)
    by corn on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:39:17 PM EST
    as in, a little birdie told you this, or as in, you just know it.

    Parent
    Wait and see (none / 0) (#112)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:57:48 PM EST


    Parent
    nice hedge (none / 0) (#143)
    by corn on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:08:05 PM EST


    Parent
    Sheesh (none / 0) (#145)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:10:32 PM EST
    I am rather sick of the lot of you tonight.

    See you later.

    Parent

    I think you're right , Big TD (none / 0) (#149)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:14:17 PM EST
    I hope there is a followup story. Something that gives a little insight into their position.

    Parent
    I think the florida delegation is working with (none / 0) (#4)
    by athyrio on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:22:28 PM EST
    Obama to ensure that there is no revote....After all the "good ole boys" of the democratic party have all endorsed him....

    Well, obviously. I think it's important for the (none / 0) (#7)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:23:48 PM EST
    Clinton surrogates to make it clear that the only options are a re-vote, or seating the delegation according to the Jan. results.

    Parent
    These aren't Obama people (none / 0) (#36)
    by Socraticsilence on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:34:24 PM EST
    The vast majority of these people, are and aleays have been Hillary people, I don't think this is a move by either camp I think; like BTD is saying, they're just being stupid.

    Parent
    If Sen. Obama is behind the stall (none / 0) (#16)
    by zfran on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:27:51 PM EST
    tactics, then he is practicing "politics as usual" which he has been preaching against. If Sen. Obama is not behind this stall and his supporters in the Fl legislature are pushing this, then shame on them for speaking against Sen. Obama's talking points of change in Washington (albeit Florida). I don't understand (still) how people are still blindly following Sen. Obama and think he's going to "change" everything. He still hasn't said "HOW" he's going to go about this. Gee, didn't GWB talk about being a uniter not a divider and how he could "bring us all together." Sen. Obama is a politician and had to "play the game" (and I believe still is) to get where he is now!!!

    He is not behind this (none / 0) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:29:45 PM EST
    Not everything is a nefarious shceme.

    Some things are just sheer stupidity.

    Parent

    Sounds like it. (none / 0) (#26)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:30:20 PM EST


    Parent
    FL Voters (none / 0) (#17)
    by Iphie on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:27:51 PM EST
    I wonder if there's been any polling done in FL about what the voters would like to see happen. I would guess that they want a re-vote, and that the Congressional Delegation is going to begin to feel some heat from their constituents, especially if this thing drags on -- which seems likely. This is FL after all, they're a little sensitive to the whole disenfranchisement thing.

    What are the possible actions (none / 0) (#24)
    by waldenpond on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:29:46 PM EST
    Is there anyway they can block this?  Not allowing resources to be dedicated etc. I can't think of how they can put up roadblocks but I'm sure they can.

    Well (none / 0) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:32:10 PM EST
    They actually have nothing to say to it to be honest.

    The Florida Dem Party is submitting the Nelson Plan. But they make it easier for others, cough cough, to block it.

    Parent

    Does this mean Hillary & Obama (none / 0) (#43)
    by katiebird on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:36:24 PM EST
    Have agreed as well?  

    At what point does that happen?

    It happens the day after (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:38:02 PM EST
    Obama gets finished deploying his ground game.


    Parent
    They're expressing the will (none / 0) (#47)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:37:25 PM EST
    Of their constituents.  If they have no power or not.

    Poll Floridians.  Do you think you should have to vote twice?

    What's the result?

    If I were in FL I woul dnot want to vote again. (none / 0) (#64)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:40:33 PM EST


    Parent
    I agree. (none / 0) (#82)
    by corn on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:46:54 PM EST
    I think this point is overlooked.

    Parent
    So if you have this choice (none / 0) (#87)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:48:08 PM EST
    Vote gain OR do not have a representative delegation, what do you choose then?

    Parent
    Well, I might be happy that my (none / 0) (#89)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:50:16 PM EST
    Congressional delegation were fighting to seat the delegation based on my vote in FL.

    Parent
    And whn the fail? (none / 0) (#110)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:56:52 PM EST
    As they will and squandered the revote chance, then how will you feel?

    Parent
    Then the delegation must be seated. (none / 0) (#116)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:59:03 PM EST
    There is no other option.

    Parent
    Oh, there's another option (none / 0) (#146)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:11:08 PM EST
    It's one I employ with my son.  If he acts like a whiny idiot, I put him time-out until he learns his lesson.

    Parent
    "Poor dears" "Whiny children" (none / 0) (#148)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:13:19 PM EST
    Your motif has been established.


    Parent
    That's the name (none / 0) (#155)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:16:40 PM EST
    for people who have to have everything exactly their way, even though everyone else is bending over backwards to accommodate them.  I guess if you can't argue the merits your only recourse is to complain about sarcastic language.

    Parent
    Funny (none / 0) (#158)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:19:12 PM EST
    It seems like the guy who's gotten his way on all of this is Obama.

    Parent
    That is, if you think he opposes a re-vote. (none / 0) (#174)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:39:15 PM EST
    As of today, he and his campaign have not voiced a word of opposition.

    Parent
    Unless his position is that Florida shouldn't (none / 0) (#180)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:42:50 PM EST
    count at all, he's getting his way with a re-vote scheduled at his leisure.


    Parent
    In their mind (none / 0) (#90)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:50:20 PM EST
    there's an option you're omitting.


    Parent
    It's time they wake up (none / 0) (#104)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:55:20 PM EST
    and smell the coffee.

    Parent
    Add offense (none / 0) (#135)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:04:06 PM EST
    To the inconvenience.


    Parent
    That's a different question. (none / 0) (#103)
    by corn on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:54:57 PM EST
    Of course a re-vote is preferable to nothing.  That doesn't mean the voters wouldn't find the re-vote offensive.  I know you support a re-vote, think the train has left the station, ship has sailed, etc.  That doesn't mean there isn't nuance to the situation and various motivations at play.  These are being discussed too.  

    Parent
    There is no nuance (none / 0) (#108)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:56:12 PM EST
    The Midnight hour has struck.

    This is the choice. Period.

    Parent

    That doesn't alter the point I was agreeing with. (none / 0) (#132)
    by corn on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:02:49 PM EST
    That being, that the locals might not want to vote again.  

    But since you only want to address this from one perspective tonight...  A re-vote is not the only option.  There is always the potential to cut a deal.  That's still my prediction.

    Parent

    BTD says they're being stupid (none / 0) (#88)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:49:27 PM EST
    Are Floridians who don't want to vote again stupid?


    Parent
    Then they shouldn't have let the party (none / 0) (#94)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:51:03 PM EST
    refuse to work with the DNC after the legislature moved the date.  First the butterfly ballot now this - the idiocy of the dems in florida is getting quite tiresome.

    Parent
    I'm sure if you polled voters in FL (none / 0) (#97)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:53:06 PM EST
    When they would prefer to vote, earlier or later, they also would have chosen later.

    A lot of things are being exposed here.


    Parent

    Sure they would, <i>now</i> (none / 0) (#125)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:00:51 PM EST
    But they thought early primaries were more influential, and the legislature picked that date and the party wouldn't work with the DNC to fix it when it happened.  Now that they know it's coming down to the end, they would prefer the end.  And they could probably get it because they are lucky enough to live in a swing state.  If this was North Dakota nobody would be going to all this trouble to make sure their pwecious widdle feewings aren't hurted.  And still their Congresspeople make trouble.  

    Parent
    They would have been more influential (none / 0) (#133)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:02:57 PM EST
    If they counted.


    Parent
    Yep, and they could have counted (none / 0) (#142)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:07:41 PM EST
    But they had to be early in the process.  And then they couldn't work it out with the DNC.  And now everyone is bending backwards to accommodate the poor dears, and they still cause problems.

    Parent
    You ought to be an official spokesman (5.00 / 0) (#156)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:18:40 PM EST
    for Obama. You project the perfect sense of entitlement and derision.

    Parent
    Do you have an actual argument? (none / 0) (#163)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:28:54 PM EST
    If not, I'll have to reluctantly conclude that you oppose a recount only because you think a bird in Hillary's hand is worth two in the bush at this point.  

    Parent
    Proved MarkL's point for him. (none / 0) (#166)
    by RalphB on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:32:05 PM EST


    Parent
    "The poor dears" (none / 0) (#144)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:08:41 PM EST
    Hmmmm.


    Parent
    "They"? Who are "they" here? (none / 0) (#187)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:49:54 PM EST
    You do understand, I hope, that the Dem members of Congress from Florida do not set the date of a state primary.

    You do understand that was set by the Republican state legislature?

    Parent

    That is a ridiculous comment. (none / 0) (#98)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:53:14 PM EST
    The butterfly ballot was the work of ONE Democrat in  one county. Blaming all Floridians for it makes no sense. Nor does it make sense to blame Democrats for the way the Republican legislature voted.


    Parent
    the ridiculous thing (none / 0) (#139)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:06:32 PM EST
    is you didn't even read the comment.  I know the GOP legislature moved the date.  But the DNC wanted to work it out with the FL party even before it happened, and they mucked about like idiots.  

    Parent
    Voting again lets them decide the race! (none / 0) (#111)
    by jerry on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:57:02 PM EST
    I'd love to vote again.  What a great vote to be a part of in terms of the sheer excitement of a close horse race.

    Theirs is the vote that could break the tie and decide one of our historically most important races.

    Parent

    Great PR (none / 0) (#127)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:02:11 PM EST
    And a better case than BTD makes.

    DO IT CAUSE YOU HAVE NO CHOICE.

    Parent

    But that's not the choice (none / 0) (#157)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:19:00 PM EST
    The choice is, Do Floridians want a vote that counts? I'm not saying that it's impossible that the January results might figure in to a compromise delegation at the convention, but I wouldn't bet on it. A revote assures everyone gets to vote in an election, knowing beforehand that it will count.

    Parent
    Obama is going to try to block a re-vote, (none / 0) (#168)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:32:42 PM EST
    which means the delegates have to be seated according to the Jan. vote

    Parent
    No he won't block (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:34:19 PM EST
    He's stalling to deploy his ground game.

    He'll agree, acting like he's doing everyone a favor,.... when he's ready.


    Parent

    It's hard to imagine Mr. Yes We Can not agreeing (none / 0) (#188)
    by jerry on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:50:10 PM EST
    to a revote of some sort or seating the original delegates.

    Given all that the values he claims to run on, it would seem pretty outrageous to block any delegation for FL or MI.

    Of course, politicians rarely take my advice.....

    No, os puedes!
    No, no es posible!

    I apologize for mangling that....  But to those that had Spanish less than 20 years ago, or even speak Spanish today, why is "Se se puede" translated as "yes WE can" and not translated as "yes YOU" or "yes THEY"?

    Parent

    totally agree. nt (none / 0) (#71)
    by jpete on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:43:25 PM EST


    haven't gotten to Florida yet (none / 0) (#73)
    by Miss Devore on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:43:48 PM EST
    but here's my take on PA:

    http://www.politicalfleshfeast.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2398

    Were you surprised at all (none / 0) (#93)
    by riddlerandy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:50:50 PM EST
    by the MS turnout today?

    Parent
    I'm not registered to comment on your site (none / 0) (#151)
    by ding7777 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:14:38 PM EST
    but you asked
    tell me why the always reliable AA Dem vote should turn out this year if democracy has to be decided by entrenched Dem organizations?
     

    My guess would be that there are plenty of AA's entrenched in the Dem organization.

    Parent

    Incredibly stupid (none / 0) (#92)
    by muffie on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:50:43 PM EST
    I've got to think their objection is the money.  Seems to me the logical thing to do is for some of Hillary's big donors to step up and contribute to the cost.  In addition, she can put pressure on Obama to do the same -- a move that I'm sure he would be less than delighted about.

    Maybe also worth noting that the Florida Democratic Party also rejected plans to have mail-in votes or caucuses in the early stages of the game, before the DNC penalty kicked in.  I blame both them and Dean for all this stupidity.

    Can't we just fix it already?

    (Off-topic note: BTD, you were correct earlier in the day that I was way off on the popular vote.  But do note that realclearpolitics number is a little bogus, as it excludes Iowa, Nevada, Washington & Maine.)

    The problem is that (none / 0) (#159)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:22:34 PM EST
    The problem is that Obama doesn't have the big donors like Clinton. Also, let's face it, Clinton donors are more motivated to pay for an election where she would likely win.

    Whatever, I hope they get enough money to run the election.

    Parent

    The most common flaw I see in people (none / 0) (#95)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:51:27 PM EST
    is a stubborn unwillingness to cut losses.

    So it apparently goes for this Congressional delegation .

    There are other potential losses (none / 0) (#106)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:55:38 PM EST
    for them to consider, maybe?  They're all up for re-election this fall.  Their constituents are angry about their votes not counting already.

    The DNC is supposed to help us keep seats in Congress, too.

    Parent

    meh (none / 0) (#114)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:58:20 PM EST
    all but Klein and Mahoney could vacation in Africa next fall and still win their districts without breaking a sweat.

    Parent
    Okay, what's two seats to us? (nt) (none / 0) (#122)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:00:19 PM EST


    Parent
    At the end of the day (none / 0) (#128)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:02:16 PM EST
    it's more dangerous not to support this. The alternative is not having the January delegation seated. That ship has sailed.

    Parent
    BTD (none / 0) (#96)
    by Coral Gables on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:52:15 PM EST
    Don't know if this has been posted yet but looks like Florida is still a go on a mail in revote.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/campaign08/story/452802.html

    That's the plan (none / 0) (#101)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:54:24 PM EST
    There is no other.

    Parent
    Interesting stuff in a sidebar, too (none / 0) (#120)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:59:41 PM EST
    about "few fans of the plan," in part because of:

    "Little help from the Democratic National Committee's chairman, Howard Dean, in reaching a compromise. Dean has yet to discuss the options with state Democratic chairwoman Karen Thurman."

    Isn't the DNC supposed to help state parties?

    Parent

    They tried (none / 0) (#150)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:14:23 PM EST
    Here.

    Thurman tried to play hardball.  Looks like she lost.

    Parent

    Democratic candidate loses in November (none / 0) (#164)
    by RalphB on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:29:55 PM EST
    if this isn't cleared up for FL to count.

    Parent
    I agree (none / 0) (#167)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:32:14 PM EST
    Re-vote all the way.  Unfortunately some hard-liners don't take that view.

    Parent
    Bottom for me now is (none / 0) (#161)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:27:31 PM EST
    As this was developing I smelled a rat.  It didn't seem right.

    A re-vote sounds like a good idea.  How could I be against that?

    But the little voice in my head said "No."

    My rational mind said "Why not?"

    Now I saw the post by Jeralyn where she links to all the events Obama is now scheduling in Florida.  Events that I would not have seen scheduled back in January.

    This is being played out in such a way so that Obama will have all the time he needs to situate himself in Florida the way he wants.  Prior to the re-vote.

    I do smell a rat.  Not an intentional rat.  A nice big convenient rat that will probably work out just great for Obama in the long run.

    So the bottom line now for me is this.

    If they do this re-vote and the results are the same as the previous results, then fine, I'll be the first to say "I was wrong.

    But if they do this re-vote and there's significant movement to Obama, then I, for one, will regard this re-vote as just as insulting to Democracy as simply not seating the delegates.

    I would encourage Floridian Clinton supporters to feel the same way.

    If they do this re-vote and it breaks heavily for Obama, it could make things even worse on the Party Unity front.

    You mean he might actually CAMPAIGN!?!?! (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:30:58 PM EST
    The horror, the horror.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#170)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:32:55 PM EST
    He'll be able to focus all of his resources there which wasn't the case back in January.

    This is going to work out well for Obama.


    Parent

    He's still likely to lose (none / 0) (#175)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:39:17 PM EST
    And a double-win is a good argument for HRC.  Even if he picks up a couple more delegates, at that point convincing the superdelegates will be all that matters.

    Parent
    I've decided (none / 0) (#178)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:41:05 PM EST
    What the bottom line is here for me.

    Every one gets to make up their own minds.

    Sure wouldn't mind doing a re-vote in all of those states Clinton didn't spend any money on.


    Parent

    thanks for pointing this out (none / 0) (#189)
    by english teacher on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:50:26 PM EST
    i too have been concerned about this potential huge downside myself.  wouldn't it be a disaster if the turnout is significantly less than january and obama wins it.  what a fiasco!

    Parent
    Obama playing hardball in Michigan (none / 0) (#176)
    by nell on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:39:38 PM EST
    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080311/NEWS15/80311067

    Michigan Obama supporters to give a press conference calling for 50/50 seating of delegates in Michigan.

    This is just wrong. This is not the will of the voters.

    If Hastings and Wasserman-Schultz aren't speaking (none / 0) (#186)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:48:35 PM EST
    ... for the Clinton campaign, of which they are national co-chairs, surely two Michigan State Senators can't be considered to be speaking on behalf of Obama.

    Parent
    As I suspected. (none / 0) (#192)
    by tbetz on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:54:58 PM EST
    As Nedra Pickler writes:

    Two co-chairman of Obama's campaign in Michigan also say they're leery of redoing the primary by mail. They'd prefer that the DNC evenly split Michigan's 128 delegates between Clinton and Obama, who was not on the primary ballot because he didn't want to anger other early voting states.

    State Sens. Buzz Thomas and Tupac Hunter, both of Detroit, said they've taken their concerns to Obama's national campaign in Chicago.

    "You can't really verify signatures on ballots" in a mail-in election held by the state Democratic Party, state Sen. Buzz Thomas. "I strongly recommend that we do look to splitting Michigan's delegates 50-50 and taking that back to the national party."

    Thomas and Hunter are state co-chairmen, appealing to the national campaign to block vote-by-mail, but not speaking for the national campaign.

    Parent

    why not.... (none / 0) (#177)
    by txprog on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:40:21 PM EST
    just stip florida of its superdelegates (since there seems to be an overwhelming sentiment that it was not the voters fault but the politicans) and let the vote by the people stand as is? no revote...nothing.

    i am certainly in favor of saying to hell with florida and michigan.  if people feel 'disenfranchised' then they need to vote their representatives out of office that did this.

    michigan can have a closed (closed in terms of not allowing republicans)caucus..strip supers..and move on. in know you blind hillary supporters dont like a good caucus when see one (except when she wins)but it is the best bet.  she should win that one anyway.

    i think barack will do much better in a complete redo in florida due to lack of name recognition in florida in january but not well enough to change to results that much.  hillary is bound to win a few states that have yet to vote.  even huckabee kept winning states after it was impossible for him to win.

    michigan is different because (as you all know) obama and edwards were not even on the ballot.  you can project whatever reasons you want as to why they removed their names and hillary did not but if you truly care about the voters will then you have to concede that they should be able to pick somthing other than uncommited.

    in short...let florida stand as is...strip its supers...

    new caucus in michigan...strip its supers...

    You can't smell the coffee... (none / 0) (#190)
    by Dadler on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:50:31 PM EST
    ...if you're too busy sucking down DNC kool-aid.

    i love tent, and i love talk left (none / 0) (#191)
    by english teacher on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:52:53 PM EST
    but why can't the lawyer behind this post recognize a good cop bad cop routine?  perhaps he's not a criminal attorney?  

    why should obama be the only one to play the brinksmanship game?  he's boxed in from both sides here.  agree to a revote and lose.  don't agree to a revote and we will fight you all the way to convention.  i think it is a very smart move.  bare knuckled, even.  

    Leave it as it stands (none / 0) (#196)
    by obscure on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 12:17:55 AM EST
    Leave the results as they stand, from a delegate distribution stand point. Then divide the number of delegates for each by half. They get seated, but also get punished for being jerks.

    The party needs to get this settled ASAP (none / 0) (#200)
    by diplomatic on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 06:19:23 AM EST
    Howard Dean, Donna Brazile, and the Obama Campaign need to stop playing with fire and get their act together and accept re-voting in Fl and MI sometime in May.(not at the last moment, thus it won't seem like these 2 states "decided" the whole thing)

    They are risking that this situation will get completely out of hand and could cause Democrats the general election.  The party is looking increasingly disorganized and incompetent.

    FL Congressional Delegation Needs To Smell The Coffee | 202 comments (202 topical)

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