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Boehlert On Tweety And Hillary's 60 Minutes Moment

By Big Tent Democrat

Eric Boehlert writes about Tweety and Hillary's 60 Minute Moment:

Less than one second. That's how long it took Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton to answer, "Of course not," to Steve Kroft's question on 60 Minutes about whether she thought Sen. Barack Obama was a Muslim. You can time it yourself by watching the clip at YouTube.

Still, that didn't stop MSNBC's Chris Matthews from complaining on-air last week that it took Clinton "the longest time" to answer Kroft's question.

More...

Lots of eager, tsk-tsking pundits and reporters agreed. They said Clinton was guilty of "hemming and hawing" in response to Kroft's peculiar, repeated insistence that she make some sort of declarative statement about her opponents religious beliefs. And then when she did, Kroft asked that she do it again. That's when Clinton, looking befuddled by the multiple requests, added some qualifiers to her response, including "as far as I know." What stood out in the exchange was not Clinton's responses, but Kroft's weird persistence in asking a question that Clinton addressed unequivocally the first time, as though he was trying to draw out something she was not saying. . . .

Read the whole thing.

NOTE - Comments closed.

< Obama Camp Resisting Revotes | Obama Camp's False Description Of Hillary's 60 Minutes Statement >
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    well, hey! (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by Turkana on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:44:39 PM EST
    but i heard she all but called him a muslim. at least that's what i read, on the daily dross wreck list.

    Now, now. Don't be bitter. (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:45:48 PM EST
    that's what i read, on the daily dross wreck list.

    Leave that to me.

    Parent

    i mourn the loss (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by Turkana on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:47:45 PM EST
    of the reality-based community, and all it was, and all it should have been.

    i don't want to get in the habit of snarling about that, but there were so many dishonest diaries about this story, and so many hit the wreck list.

    Parent

    I'm sure some of y'all have read up (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Kathy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:11:28 PM EST
    on confessions.  There are many hallmarks, but the main one is that the interrogator asks the same question repeatedly in different ways until the suspect either starts to explain themselves into a hole or pushes back against the interrogator.

    I suppose Clinton could have asked Croft, "Why do you keep asking the same question over and over again?" but that would have put Croft on his back foot, so all she could do was keep answering the question.

    Parent

    So true (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Steve M on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:45:36 PM EST
    I have said a million times how unbelievable I find it that she denied 10 different ways that Obama is a Muslim, yet some people want to pretend that the only words out of her mouth were "as far as I know."

    a major factor in this primary (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Josey on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:48:34 PM EST
    has been the continual faux outrage by Obamabots.


    Parent
    And too often ... (none / 0) (#30)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:10:49 PM EST
    it ends up sounding like Claude Rains' line from Casablanca:

    "I'm shocked! Shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"

    Then he's handed his winnings.

    Parent

    Looks like (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Steve M on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:50:26 PM EST
    Joe Scarborough, of all people, found a way to illustrate the absurdity of this attack:

       SCARBOROUGH: Let me ask you this question, David Shuster, do you think [co-host] Mika Brzezinski is a Christian? She says she is. Is she a Christian?

        SHUSTER: Yeah, I believe she is. But here's the point --

        SCARBOROUGH: Hold on a second. You say you believe she's a Christian. You 'believe.' What does that mean? Is she or isn't she? Is she a Christian or not?

        SHUSTER: Well look, Mika and I have never actually had that conversation and I've never heard anybody have a conversation about her religion.

        SCARBOROUGH: But Mika says she's a Christian. So you're saying you don't know if she's a Christian or not?

        SHUSTER: That's fine! To me it doesn't matter.

        SCARBOROUGH: Oh, it doesn't matter? So now you're saying it doesn't matter.

    As Boehlert says, there is "a cardinal rule that the press adheres to when parsing Clinton syntax: No phrase is uttered accidentally. Nothing -- nothing -- the candidate (or her husband) has said over the course of a 14 month campaign, including spontaneous exchanges with journalists, has been spoken by chance. Incredibly, it's all pre-planned."

    Good for Scarborough (none / 0) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:53:16 PM EST
    Not the first time. . . (none / 0) (#15)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:54:21 PM EST
    I've heard this guy Scarborough cited as reasonable.

    Parent
    Not by me (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:58:27 PM EST
    I call him Crazy Joe.

    But he is right here.

    Parent

    On MSNBarack ... (none / 0) (#27)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:05:24 PM EST
    it's usually the Republicans who defend Clinton.

    Scarborough also called out the network's Obama fans the night of TX and OH primaries.  Buchanan often does as well.

    Parent

    this is what I'd like to see (none / 0) (#61)
    by Kathy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:51:33 PM EST
    Q: Senator Obama, do you think Senator Clinton is a monster?

    Q: Do you think she is desperate?

    Q:  Do you think she will do anything to win?

    Q:  Do you think she is a liar?

    When Obama has to answer those questions, then I'll start to pay attention.  Character is standing by your words, and Clinton has been drilled over and over again by the press on any and everything she says.  Time to send it back to Obama.

    Parent

    The Analogous Question (none / 0) (#70)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:55:50 PM EST
    Would be:

    Mr Obama, do you think that Hillary is a lesbian?

    Parent

    That's a stretch (none / 0) (#88)
    by Kathy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:27:23 PM EST
    Because only about .000001% of Americans have heard that rumor.  I would liken asking about the lesbian rumors to asking about the cat-killer rumors or the Vince Foster rumors.

    Have you seen the interview where she answered the question, like, eight times?  Shouldn't that be enough?

    Parent

    Rumor? (none / 0) (#93)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:48:37 PM EST
    Not responding in terms of rumors floating around, but in terms of loaded questions meant to kill two birds (HRC and BHO) with one stone.  Of course the press would not dare to be obviously  nasty and ask Obama about Hillary's sexuality. An anti muslim question is easier to slip by than an anti gay question these days.

    I care less about Hillary's answer than the question. She handled it in the best way she could. Ungracious to tell Kroft to f'off, not to mention unwise. Any hesitation that she had was obviously due to having been set up.  I do not think, for a second, that she was trying to harm Obama in any way.

    Parent

    On the media. . . (none / 0) (#2)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:45:10 PM EST
    you saw, of course, that David Gregory's suspension has resulted in his getting a prime slot of his own on MSNBC?

    when was he (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Turkana on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:45:49 PM EST
    suspended? i don't remember that.

    Parent
    Are you (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Steve M on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:45:51 PM EST
    confusing David Gregory with David Shuster?

    Parent
    Yes. (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:46:54 PM EST
    I think so.  Or rather, the other way around.  I know who Gregory is, never heard of Shuster (or at least, I thought I hadn't).

    Got to get me one of them TV things, maybe?

    Parent

    don't waste your money. (none / 0) (#63)
    by cpinva on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:52:01 PM EST
    Got to get me one of them TV things, maybe?

    it's overrated, unless you're using it to play "crash bandicoot". lol

    Parent

    Wonder if it's true (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by waldenpond on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:16:11 PM EST
    I read yesterday that Tucker is going to be out and that David Gregory is getting his own hour.  I forgot the name of the show.  

    Parent
    Hey, this comment is off topic! (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:47:57 PM EST
    (not to mention embarrassing to me).  Moderators, where are you when I need you!

    Parent
    Howe Often Does . . . (none / 0) (#11)
    by Doc Rock on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:50:24 PM EST
    .  .  . Matthews make any substantive contribution getting facts out?  Not very often in my limited experience.

    How about (none / 0) (#13)
    by 1jane on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:52:52 PM EST
    "No, Mr. Obama is a Christian. He is not a Muslim." The qualifier's used by Mrs. Clinton in her answer left an impression of "Gee, I guess not..." instead of her usual firm answers. It was like watching her say to herself how do I answer the question and use my answer to gain a political advantage.

    Her answer reminded me of her vote on the Iraq War. Mrs. Clinton said, "This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make - any vote that may lead to war should be hard - but I cast it with conviction."

    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Steve M on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:55:08 PM EST
    if only she had responded with something like "of course not."

    Parent
    of course not (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:56:20 PM EST
    she did the first 5 times

    Parent
    Snark (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:57:40 PM EST
    Cap't Howdy.

    Recognize it.

    Parent

    um (none / 0) (#40)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:19:14 PM EST
    perils of poppin in and out.
    it did sound like something "they" would say you have to admit.

    Parent
    have you actually seen the tape? (none / 0) (#19)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:56:51 PM EST
    they see the tapes they just have to (none / 0) (#23)
    by Florida Resident on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:58:33 PM EST
    say what their going to say anyway.

    Parent
    I mean you know the (none / 0) (#20)
    by rooge04 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:57:21 PM EST
    meaning of complex right? Because even down to the Iraq vote...it's not as easy as YES/NO. It's complex. Like foreign policy and most everything else.  But somehow her very clear point on that vote gets lost in the "she should have voted no" rhetoric of this thing.

    Same thing with the Muslim thing. She was asked. She answered directly. OF COURSE NOT. Is that not clear enough? They kept asking and she kept answering no.  

    Parent

    Where are the qualifiers in.... (none / 0) (#25)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:01:46 PM EST
    ... "of course not?"

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#41)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:19:40 PM EST
    Apart from having no problem with Clinton's response, I do wish she would have said something like:

    'Why do you people repeatedly ask such stupid questions while making believe that you do not know the answer to them.'

    Parent

    her sxpression was saying that (none / 0) (#42)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:23:35 PM EST
    the actual video is much more understandable than reading a transcript.
    I think a preferable response would have been "what do you want from me? I answered the question"
    but "as far as I know" was a completely understandable response to the yammering.
    this whole episode makes my blood pressure rise.  it was like he was trying to get a soundbite out of it.

    Parent
    He was trying (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:07:12 PM EST
    That's what this whole thing was about, a successful attempt to fluster her enough to finally get something "newsworthy" out of her mouth.  That's practically a patented "60 Minutes" technique.  The question didn't belong in the interview to begin with.  There was literally no other reason to ask it except in hopes she would trip over her tongue.


    Parent
    Like he was trying? (none / 0) (#47)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:30:31 PM EST
    No qualifications needed, it was a soundbyte setup for sure. The presumption of the question is that there is something bad about being a Muslim.

    Not far off from 'do you still beat your wife.'    

    Parent

    because... (none / 0) (#64)
    by kredwyn on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:53:44 PM EST
    "Of course not" is such squishy language, right?

    Parent
    Don't forget (none / 0) (#71)
    by ChrisO on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:57:09 PM EST
    "there's no basis for that." Wow, she's practically calling him a terrorist.

    Parent
    as recently as last night (none / 0) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:55:38 PM EST
    they were pawing this dead horse on LardBall.
    Lawerence Odonnell, Tweety and some little twerp from HuffPo.
    on and on and over and over and on and on.


    Bohlert's account is much closer to (none / 0) (#24)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:58:45 PM EST
    the exchange that I watched that night.  The only "mistake" Clinton made was in not getting more visibly irritated with Kroft - but had she done that people would have said she was being mean to Kroft.  It was a typical set up for a "gottcha" moment.  Kroft's and his producers' decision to include both "takes" rather than the just the initial answer could be said to have been a bit disengenuous on their part.

    This whole issue just depresses me (none / 0) (#26)
    by frankly0 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:02:24 PM EST
    because it reminds me of how easy it is to get an ugly mob -- in both the media and in the blogosphere -- to believe anything they are already inclined to believe.

    To me, the most absurd assumption of the argument is that Hillary had in mind to cast doubts on whether Obama was really not a Muslim, but waited until she was asked three direct and essentially identical questions on the point before she uttered a single word that might be interpreted as casting those doubts.

    How could Hillary have known in advance that she would essentially have been asked the same question three times in a row, allowing her to spring on the world these "doubts"? Why would she anticipate being badgered like this on that precise point? If she wanted to sow doubts, wouldn't she have had something to say on the very first occasion in which she was asked that question?

    Obviously... (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:11:59 PM EST
    ... not only is everything she says preplanned, she also preplans everything the interviewers say.

    I only hope that most ordinary people (i.e. not the obsessive few who hang out on blogs) find all of this stuff absurd.

    Right around now I'm betting that Hillary Clinton wishes the press would only treat her as badly as they treated Al Gore in 2000.

    Parent

    would be a relief for her (none / 0) (#39)
    by RalphB on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:18:28 PM EST
    LOL (none / 0) (#65)
    by Daryl24 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:54:01 PM EST
    not only is everything she says preplanned, she also preplans everything the interviewers say.

    Yes of course! That means Walter Huston had the Falcon all along. Clever lay Hillary.

    Ahh the Fat Man and Mary Astor were right. The woman is diabolical.

    Parent

    I LOVE (none / 0) (#69)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:55:43 PM EST
    black and white film references

    Parent
    You and Me both. (none / 0) (#74)
    by Daryl24 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:04:23 PM EST
    Love the writing as much as the acting from that era.  

    Spade: You are a liar.

    Astor: Yes I am. I've always been a liar.

    Bogie (laughing) Well don't brag about it.

    And silent movies too.

    Parent

    Ugh (none / 0) (#76)
    by Daryl24 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:05:51 PM EST
    meant O'Shaughnessy and Spade.

    Parent
    Barbara Stanwick (none / 0) (#79)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:08:23 PM EST
    Hillary could take some lessons from that babe.

    Parent
    By the time the general election rolls around, (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:17:15 PM EST
    we may all be sitting in a corner sucking our thumbs, our minds having been totally lost after months of this endless parsing of the language.

    Meanwhile, Senator Obama is on the trail in Mississippi, speaking blatantly racially coded language that is either falling on the ears of the media like pearls, or they are all just petrified to call him on it for fear of being labeled racist.  If I weren't growing to loathe the sound of Obama's voice, I might be impressed with his ability to construct an environment where he seems to be exempt from criticism, but I can't seem to distance myself from the feeling that there is an electoral disaster looming, the psychological punch from which will make the depression and anger that followed the contests of 2000 and 2004 seem like a day at the spa.

    I think it really started for me when Obama delivered the "you're likeable enough, Hillary" line at one of the debates; oh, there were a few instances of media saying it "wasn't his best moment," but no one spent an entire news cycle picking it apart to determine what he really meant by it.  So what if it came off snide and mean-spirited to her humorous remarks?  

    Someone needs to explain to me why, if I have eyes, ears and a functioning brain, I need every single person who is or fancies him- or herself to be some kind of "expert" to tell me the meaning of every word the candidates utter and every nuance of their body language.  

    And I think that is what is driving me around the bend - that somehow, somewhere at some time, the media decided it was their job to tell us what to think and how to feel.  Could they ever just once get the hell out of the way and confine themselves to an accurate reporting of what people said, and leave the "what it means" to us?

    Yes, I know, I really do need to stop living in a dream world.


    Parent

    She's just that clever. (none / 0) (#28)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:08:00 PM EST
    But you're right. It's just preposterous.

    Parent
    Exactly. (none / 0) (#29)
    by rooge04 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:08:27 PM EST
    Wouldn't she have said as her first answer "not as far as I know." that would have been something. but she only said that after three times of being asked the same question. And it's a reasonable response in an exchange...when you are trying to make the same point yet again in different words.

    Parent
    Stanley Milgram would be proud. (none / 0) (#57)
    by Kathy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:46:11 PM EST
    Believe it or not (none / 0) (#80)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:10:02 PM EST
    I have seen it suggested in all seriousness that the whole thing was a set-up with 60 Minutes, that Hillary "arranged" to have Kroft do the interview and ask the question that way so she could slip in a little hint.

    That's how completely deranged and removed from reality some folks have now gotten.

    Parent

    This is part of the Obama narrative (none / 0) (#33)
    by Manuel on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:14:13 PM EST
    The narrative being pushed hard by the Obama campaign is that Clinton has been using every dirty trick in the book to smear Obama.  He has been aided by the media in pushing this story.  He is now saying in MS that her campaign was responsible for the Drudge photo.

    This goes to Ferraror's cooments (which could have been phrased better).  This line of attack could not have been employed by a white candidate.  I don't blame the Obama campaign for taking advantage of this.  It just shows that it is really hard to change the nature of politics.

    Hillary has been less active and effective in pushing a similar gender based argument against the Obama campaign.

    That's because (none / 0) (#49)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:34:23 PM EST
    Sisko came before Janeway.

    Women have to wait their turn.


    Parent

    Sisko came before Janeway (none / 0) (#52)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:37:09 PM EST
    hilariously nerdy.
    Sisko was such an ass.


    Parent
    It's nerdy (none / 0) (#53)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:38:20 PM EST
    And true.


    Parent
    I prefer B5 (none / 0) (#67)
    by Nasarius on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:54:32 PM EST
    Where Susan Ivanova outranked Dr. Franklin.

    Parent
    or the avengers (none / 0) (#72)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:58:55 PM EST
    ms peel kicked butt

    Parent
    Tweety's full of it (none / 0) (#34)
    by scribe on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:14:56 PM EST
    (and of himself - "it" and "he" are indistinguishable) and I change the channel when he comes on.

    I have to admit (none / 0) (#51)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:36:20 PM EST
    I sometimes take guilty pleasure in seeing just how far into the deep end he will go.
    or how much I can tolerate before throwing something at the tv.
    a dangerous game.  I have a very expensive tv.


    Parent
    The exchange reminded me (none / 0) (#35)
    by eric on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:15:35 PM EST
    of being in front of the Court of Appeals and responding to a question.  The judge asks you a question, and you can answer it by just saying "No".  Then, you think "hey, I have got to look good here so I am not just going to say 'No', I am going to explain myself.  It's a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

    Now, imagine if the Court follows up by asking the same question, again?  You begin to wonder why the Court isn't getting it and you wonder how many different ways you can say No.

    * * *
    Q: Mr. eric, do you think that the Smith case was reversed by the Jones case?

    No, I don't think that is true.  I don't think there is any evidence of that.

    Q:  But didn't Jones overrule Smith?

    No, it didn't.  I have read the Jones case and it says that it is not overruling Smith.  I mean, as far as I know there is no reason to believe that Smith has been overruled...

    In a sane and rational world (none / 0) (#43)
    by tree on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:25:33 PM EST
    I would have preferred that Clinton also mentioned that being a Muslim is not an inherently bad thing, but in the context of the interview I can understand why she didn't. And in the Loopyville that passes for our current political arena, she would have been roasted alive for saying such a thing.


    for saying such a thing (none / 0) (#44)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:28:33 PM EST
    oh my god
    can you imagine?

    Parent
    yes tree, (none / 0) (#54)
    by cpinva on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:44:47 PM EST
    that's exactly what i thought, when i first heard about this: what the f*ck difference does it make what his religious beliefs are, as long as they don't require human sacrifice?

    what i would have really enjoyed, though i know she couldn't, would have been for her to respond:

    "gee, no, i don't believe he is, and i really don't care. why would you ask such an obviously stupid and irrelevant question?"

    give her credit for having far more patience with the intellectually challenged than i would. at the 3rd time, i'd have ripped him a new one.

    Parent

    ripped him a new one (none / 0) (#56)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:46:07 PM EST
    this is why you and I will never be president

    Parent
    Hillary's should've answered like this: (none / 0) (#45)
    by Dadler on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:29:23 PM EST
    "Do I think Barack Obama is a Muslim?  Wow.  I think a much more vital question at this point is 'Do I think Steve Kroft is sane?'"

    And Tweety is most certainly NOT sane (none / 0) (#46)
    by Dadler on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:30:29 PM EST
    The guy is literally so off the deep end with Hillary, I wonder if it's not masking something in his own skeleton closet.  I'm almost sure it is.

    Parent
    Tweety (none / 0) (#48)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:33:27 PM EST
    has hated the Clintons ever since he learned that not only could Bill get women he never could but that Hillary would not divorce him for it.


    Parent
    Your on her, your honor (none / 0) (#58)
    by Dadler on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:48:14 PM EST
    It's definitely a psycho-sexual screw loose.  Pun intended.  Ego + envy + dysfunction + media exposure = a malady known as Tweetis Clintonitis.

    Parent
    capt., that isn't quite true, (none / 0) (#59)
    by cpinva on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:48:43 PM EST
    the big difference is that bill doesn't have to pay cash for them. :)

    Parent
    More That (none / 0) (#62)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:51:58 PM EST
    He couldn't get Bill, to flirt with him. Not even after the Old Spice upgrade.

    Parent
    euuuu (none / 0) (#66)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:54:10 PM EST
    Then the story is she's combative with (none / 0) (#50)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:36:13 PM EST
    The media.

    Nice try.


    Parent

    Parsing (none / 0) (#55)
    by kc on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:45:10 PM EST
    I really believe that Hillary and Bill got the reputation for parsing because the right-wing media constantly tried to trap them--so out of caution, fear of getting burned, they did parse more.  But, does anyone blame them?  I read this site alot, but usually don't have time to comment. I am so angry over the media in this election that I am going to have to up my blood pressure meds.!

    The crime of all this is that our democracy is played with by the media brain washing.  I really wish we could sue them or something. Now, I just boycott them--will not watch MSNBC or CNN.  I also apply the 6 minute rule - ( don't stay on a channel for over, or even up to, 6 minutes, so they can't get the ratings). Also, found out that a Nielson box isn't necessary with cable. Have been checking tvnewser.com  for their ratings.

    Oh well, enough of my rants!!  Does anybody suppose that this media bias is related to GE defense contracts?

    up my blood pressure meds (none / 0) (#60)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:50:25 PM EST
    dont get me started.
    but honestly I think the good news is that the only people most voters dislike more than politicians is the news media.  
    I think most people believe exactly the opposite of whatever they think the MSM is pushing.
    a lot of this if not started was certainly cemented into the culture during the clinton years when I honestly thought Cokie Roberts head would explode right there on camera if we didnt start hating the Clintons as much as she did.
    I think the MSM is helping Hillary.  I really do.

    Parent
    You don't understand (none / 0) (#68)
    by ChrisO on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:55:10 PM EST
    To Obama supporters, the main purpose of Hillary's campaign should be to defend Obama against slurs about his religion.

    I don't think she was obligated to make a speech about there being no problem with Muslims or anything like that. Candidates have to pick their way through so many minefields, why should she take that on? It's Obama's problem, not hers, and the reason his campaign yells about it so much is because they know how much it can hurt him in the GE. Of course I don't favor spreading rumors about him, and it's only civilized for Hillary to respond to those questions with a forceful denial, as she did. After that he's on his ownn.

    When's the last time we saw Obama speak out about misogyny among his supporters, or condemn Internet rumors about Hillary?

    About those Obama Supporters (none / 0) (#73)
    by CST on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:01:54 PM EST
    Look, we are not robots we are not a cult we are not all sexist, mysoginist, whatever.  There are a few, loud ones, who give us a bad name.  DO NOT assume this is all of us.  I don't think this is the purpose of her campaign.  I don't think she did anything wrong in this case at all, it's so rediculous its not even funny.

    "When's the last time we saw Obama speak out about misogyny among his supporters, or condemn Internet rumors about Hillary? "

    Read this site a little better and you will find it.

    Parent

    With all due respect (none / 0) (#86)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:25:31 PM EST
    "read this site" is not helpful.

    I don't ever remember Obama speaking out on the misogyny, but I could have blinked.  If you say he has, you have to at least describe what you remember and preferably do a little Googling yourself and provide a link.

    "Read this site" isn't the way to convince people you're right and they're wrong.


    Parent

    That's how I felt at first about the photo... (none / 0) (#75)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:04:47 PM EST
    ...since Obama didn't himself start the rumor that it was Hillary campaign the sent it around, I sort of didn't blame his side for taking advantage of the kerfuffle...after all, nobody directly asked him about it the way they asked Hillary about his religion. But now that he has brought it up himself on the stump, I say shame on him. Next thing you know he's going to be telling people that Hillary darkened his picture too.

    Parent
    I don't know that (none / 0) (#87)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:27:09 PM EST
    Obama didn't start the rumor it was Hillary.  As far as I ever heard, his were exactly the people who rushed out immediately to accuse her campaign.  Why do you say differently?

    Parent
    No.... (none / 0) (#89)
    by Kathy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:28:18 PM EST
    just like he didn't stir up the story about Edwards' $400 haircut.

    Parent
    He hasn't even forcefully (none / 0) (#85)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:19:12 PM EST
    defended himself on the Muslim issue, so why should she have to?  He would have to defend Muslims as well as assert his Christianity, and he is afraid to do that, IMHO.

    So his campaign tactic is to pounce on everything they can blame on Hillary and let the media defend him by pummeling her.

    This ain't gonna work against McCain.

    Parent

    I totally agree (none / 0) (#90)
    by tree on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:28:21 PM EST
    that he should defend Muslims as well.

     And he took the totally wrong tack on the garb photo. He should have taken the same tack that the Clinton campaign, that it was no big thing and that plenty of other Congresspeople, including Clinton, have donned native garb on trips abroad. In attacking Clinton for allegedly circulating the photo,he made it sound like there was something wrong with the photo in the first place. Not a smart move,and if the press didn't love every half-a**ed attempt to smear Clinton it would have been seen as a big bolitical blunder on his part.

    Parent

    the obamacons (none / 0) (#77)
    by wiredick on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:07:09 PM EST
    have lost all credibility with me.  Daily Kos, Huffington, on and on it goes.  The fact that the leftist on the Barack side have used every right wing talking point agains Ms Clinton has just about turned off a lot of voters such as myself.
    Someone will have to do a lot of convincing to get me to the polls in nov for Barack.
    On the same subject, me thinks Josh
    Marshall is vying for a spot with Time mag or Newsweek, possibly a spot with Fox or Tweety.


    I was going at it with some (none / 0) (#81)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:12:49 PM EST
    of them on this subject yesterday at americablog.
    as far as I am concerned there are things that matter and things that dont matter.
    as far as I am concerned his demagoging about how "everyone will have to buy health insurance even if they cant afford it" is far worse than anything Hillary or any of her supporters have said or done.
    it is a bald faced lie and it has policy consequences for every man woman and child in this country.


    Parent
    Then what's a mandate? (none / 0) (#82)
    by JJE on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:15:14 PM EST
    If it's not a requirement for everyone to have health insurance, then what does it mean?

    Parent
    social security is a mandate (none / 0) (#83)
    by RalphB on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:17:01 PM EST
    the lie (none / 0) (#84)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:18:39 PM EST
    is that people "who cant afford it" will have to buy it.
    the POINT is that people WILL be able to afford it with help.
    that is the point and that is the lie.


    Parent
    A few reasons (none / 0) (#91)
    by CST on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:28:25 PM EST
    If John McCain is president...

    Forget about the right to choose, this has been one of his most consistent right-wing points

    Forget about a reworking of tax breaks.  Once against them, McCain just realized he is running for president as a Republican.

    Once loudly protesting torture, recently voted NOT to ban it.

    Foreign Policy Experience?  The best foreign policy is the one that keeps us out of wars in the first place.  Not John McCain with his "bomb Iran" jokes, thanks.

    Parent

    Comments closed (none / 0) (#92)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:38:01 PM EST


    Obama and the Media, Version 2.1 (none / 0) (#94)
    by Oje on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:19:05 PM EST
    I find it amusing that the Obama campaign and MSNBC chortled when Hillary Clinton defended herself by airing criticisms of her treatment by the press. Now, the Obama campaign and MSNBC want to condemn Clinton if she does not transform herself into Barack Obama's knight in shining armor and battle the wind(bag)-mill of the rightwing press on his behalf. Honestly, Clinton may not defend herself--but gawd forbid, if the mindless press asks her if Obama is a Musllim, repeatedly, she should slay them in a single blow from her categorical denial and rhetorical flourish!

    Last month when trying to get a sense of how important debates are to Clinton's campaign, I noticed a trend in Obama's national momentum. His campaign only really gained traction and "accelerated only in the absence of national debates after mid-November, when his campaign and the media could control and project his image at speeches and rallies." Later, Tina Fey's SNL commentary seemed to have that satirical kernel of truth since his upward trend coincided the Oprah endorsement and press hullabaloo.

    I think we are in a situation again where, SNL be damned, elements of the media are working in overdrive to recapture the narrative for Obama. Coming out of Ohio and Texas losses, the initial strategy seemed to be that Obama's surrogates and media repeaters would do the campaign's dirty work, in order to keep Obama and his strategists clear of the fray. That strategy became inoperative when academic surrogates (Goolsbee, Power, etc.) proved to be entirely inept at delivering messages without introducing nuances and attacks that undermined the campaign.

    I left the comfortable bubble of TalkLeft last night and saw the coverage on both CNN (Jonah Goldberg again?) and MSNBC. It seems to me, in light of direct attacks by Obama and Axelrod on Hillary Clinton and the Michigan/Florida revotes, that a new strategy is in play. My sense is that Obama's gambit is to affect a campaign-media realignment against Clinton once again: propose  ridiculous solutions, search and destroy Clinton's surrogates with vague accusations of racism,  and directly dish out their talking points to the media (insert recent TalkLeft post here). Then, sit back and let the indigenous population of media talking heads who suffer from Clinton Derangement Syndrome propagate the "truthiness" of Obama's words and attacks. It can't really hurt Obama, because all men of good faith (and lucrative media contracts) know: she really is a monster!