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Hillary Hate In The Blogs: Krugman Notices

By Big Tent Democrat

Ezra Klein notes Krugman writing:

By my count, 3 of my last 10 columns have criticized Barack Obama. 7 of Frank Rich’s 10 last columns, and 6 of Maureen Dowd’s last 10 columns, have criticized Hillary Clinton. But, of course, that’s different: Hillary is eeevil, and deserves it.

But Ezra misses Krugman's point I think, writing:

The sense I get from some of those critiquing him is that they're tired of hearing about this disagreement and think Paul should get over it already. And that's a fair point. But while there are a lot of folks who accurately diagnose the illegitimacy of Dowd and Rich's critiques of Clinton, very few seem to notice or care that these attacks on her personal comportment are repetitive. Continual Hillary-bashing is somehow far less jarring than continual Obama-bashing. Maybe that's a strength of his.

(Emphasis supplied.) I think Krugman's point, one Bob Somerby makes continually, is that it is a weakness of the progressive blogs. Fanboydom is unattractive in supposedly intelligent people.

Update [2008-2-4 17:29:30 by Big Tent Democrat]:

Stepping up to the plate to make Krugman's point is Kevin Drum, who announces he will vote for Obama (so will I), which is fine, but the WHY is hilariously hypocritical:

So who am I going to vote for tomorrow? Answer: Barack Obama.

I've got some good reasons and some bad reasons for changing my mind. The good reasons include (a) the ugliness coming out of the Clinton camp over the past couple of weeks, which has turned me off . . . There are also some not-so-good reasons. I'm half embarrassed to admit that this stuff even affects me, but the fact is that the actions of both the candidates' supporters and detractors has had an impact. Watching Andrew Sullivan rant and rave on a daily basis about Hillary, for example, has had the perverse effect of keeping me on her side. I just hated the thought of fever swamp hatred like that influencing my party's nomination. Conversely, today's Paul Krugman column, which was yet another installment in his months-long anti-Obama jihad, had the opposite effect. I don't like Obama's mini-demagoguery of Hillary's healthcare plan either, but for chrissake, it's an election. A bit of hardball is to be expected and I can't for the life of me figure out what Obama has done to drive a sensible guy like Krugman over a cliff.

(Emphasis supplied.) One man's ugliness is another man's hardball I guess. It is not often it is the SAME man though. Good to see Kevin is not letting the "fever swamp hatred" get to him . . .

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  • Display: Sort:
    If he wants to hold himself to (5.00 / 0) (#4)
    by Geekesque on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 04:35:23 PM EST
    the Maureen Dowd standard .  . .

    Heh (none / 0) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 04:37:35 PM EST
    You are having an Obamanaut day.

    Obviously, I missed all those swipes at MoDo at daily kos . . .

    Parent

    Listen, for Geek... (none / 0) (#149)
    by rhbrandon on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 03:45:13 AM EST
    Everyday is an Obamanaut day. Thanks to people like him, DKos is completely unreadable.

    Parent
    See also (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by andgarden on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 04:41:28 PM EST
    He Nails It (none / 0) (#12)
    by squeaky on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 04:48:11 PM EST
    Uhh (none / 0) (#33)
    by rilkefan on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:10:37 PM EST
    Fish is not helpful - anti-Semitism???  Liberals to blame for whatever-it-was?

    Parent
    She should have NO fans (5.00 / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 04:43:38 PM EST
    NOt sure what your point is here.

    I'd let her have fans, but banish her to (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 04:49:45 PM EST
    NYT Style section.

    Parent
    Hahaha (none / 0) (#15)
    by squeaky on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 04:50:44 PM EST
    You are right about this (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by BernieO on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:12:32 PM EST
    Maureen Dowd is like Mikey - she hates everything. People love her when she is trashing someone they oppose, but do not realize that she will trash anyone. Reminds me of some girls I knew in high school. She is a true cynic, something that is damaging for our society. It is great to be sceptical, but cynics poison the debate. Scepticism is a healty questioning of  conventional wisdom reliance on facts over opinion: cynicism is a knee jerk, negative emotional reaction that is not based on facts or reason.

    People need to just stop reading Dowd. Her trashing of Gore in 2000 was petty and mean spirited, but carried a lot of weight. Every time anyone clicks on her columns they are voting for this sour, self absorbed pessimist. If we all just stopped reading her, her influence would be greatly diminished. The woman is a pathetic, miserable fool.


    Parent

    sorry, i have to vigorously (5.00 / 0) (#158)
    by cpinva on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 06:11:12 AM EST
    disagree with your characterization of ms. dowd as a "cynic". she's no such thing, and you've insulted true cynics everywhere by putting her in that category.

    a true cynic has actual facts on their side, when expressing their cynicism; ms. dowd never lets facts clutter her mind, she just makes stuff up as she goes along, and the rubes eat it up.

    Parent

    Bitter much? (2.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Mo MoDo on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 09:41:53 PM EST
    Her recent columns have been bright and witty. Yes, she bashes the Clintons. A lot. But she has been pretty easy on Obama unless he deserves it.

    Parent
    Still a Need for Feminism (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by BDB on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:00:46 PM EST
    I believe it was on Whiskey Fire, but I read somewhere the fact that Maureen Dowd has a column on the New York Times op-ed pages instead of Digby or some other bright, mentally well woman proves that the need for feminism has not passed.  

    Not that anyone watching Tweety Matthews or Bill Bennett could think otherwise this election season.

    Parent

    Kevin Drum's Obama Vote (5.00 / 5) (#13)
    by BDB on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 04:48:25 PM EST
    Is backed up by some of the weakest reasoning I've read in awhile.  If you like Obmama better, fine, but just say that.  

    And not to go all Bob Sommerby on you, but his buying into this "Clinon is racist" and running an ugly campaign mainstream meme is why I hold little hope for progressive media after this election cycle.  Sure, when someone gets something blantantly wrong like Jake Tapper or Joe Klein, they take them down, but mostly they've been way too happy to fall for mainstream media narratives.  Eight years after Gore, Drum, et al, still aren't screaming and fighting back.  

    That doesn't mean Drum has to back Hillary, but it does mean he shouldn't be citing MSM crap as a reason for voting for Obama.

    And if you want to see "I'm a real journalist, so even though I was wrong, I was right" arrogance on the blogosphere, check out Harold Meyerson at The American Prospect.  First, he put up a smear of Clinton based on no evidence whatsoever and what a surprised it was race-based (about an alleged phone call in LA using a stereotypical African American voice).  Then after getting called on it (and I'm proud to say I was one of many commentators, including some Obama folks, who complained as did the Clinton campaign), he took down his original post and replaced it with a post that essentially said that even though he has no proof that Clinton was behind the calls, it still must be her supporters because he's an expert on Los Angeles politics, citing his standing with the LA Times and LA Weekly.  That's right, he just knows who is behind it because he's trusted to cover politics by the LA Times, a paper that publishes Jonah Goldberg.  With self-aggrandizment and rationalization like that, who needs Joe Klein and Jake Tapper?

    God bless Media Matters.  If only it also covered the blogosphere.

    I nearly puked when I read Kevin's endorsement (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Angel on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:05:05 PM EST
    of Obama.  Weak reasoning if you ask me.  

    Parent
    puked (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by tek on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:02:11 PM EST
    My reaction to Maria Shrivers' Obama endorsement. Her interpretation of Obama as the state of CA truly made me ill. Where do people get this stuff. I have lost all respect for this wing of the Kennedy clan, not they were highly respected by Americans in the first place.

    Maria Shriver: "Arnold will definitely NOT run for a second term."

    Parent

    Goodbye Kevin (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by CognitiveDissonance on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 01:57:25 AM EST
    I responded to Kevin's endorsement by removing my bookmark to his site. If he can't differentiate his reasoning from MSM memes then I might as well just listen to Tweety. No thanks!


    Parent
    typical (4.00 / 0) (#150)
    by ghost2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 05:16:47 AM EST
    I've been reading blogs for a few years, and Kevin Drum never impressed me with his reasoning.

    Kevin is about conventional wisdom.  He just sort of assembles viewpoints, and then says it seems to him something is the sensible approach.  I guess I am a bit harsh, but he buys into the media pressure and narratives, and that's why I stopped regularly checking his blog.

    Josh Marshall is a bit like that too, but in a slightly different way.  He works in a new medium, but yearn for the approval of traditional media, and says, look I can be serious.   Both, if I need to remind you, were lukewarm in debacle of the Iraq war, and took a while to come against it.  Sometimes, the posts were, could you hippies not make life difficult for us serious people? At the time, I really saw that as a reflection of their personalities.

    Markos is more like a revolutionary, but then he crashed the gate, and amazed that the clean people inside invited him in.  He realized it's cozy and hasn't looked back.

    Yeah, I know. Not a particularly warm tone towards the blogsphere.  But they haven't shown any power of independent opinion or insight to deserve otherwise.  They've gotten to some nice spot on the internet tubes, and their revolution (if there was ever one) is over.


    Parent

    The Democratic Party (none / 0) (#22)
    by IndependantThinker on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:05:24 PM EST
    is doomed.

    Parent
    Ruined by the "roots" (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:06:46 PM EST
    that were supposed to prop it up.

    Parent
    The roots are still there (5.00 / 0) (#56)
    by Virginian on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:45:36 PM EST
    Think of it as pest infestation...

    Parent
    Wow, that's a lot of typos (none / 0) (#29)
    by BDB on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:07:45 PM EST
    Sorry about that post, that's truly awful spelling and grammar.

    Parent
    The substance was perfect (none / 0) (#32)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:09:14 PM EST
    you got the point across, that's what matters.

    Parent
    Thanks (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by BDB on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:17:36 PM EST
    But still a pathetic display for a person who owns a shirt that says "Good Grammar Costs Nothing."  

    Parent
    I have that (none / 0) (#40)
    by PlayInPeoria on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:15:37 PM EST
    problem when my mind goes faster than my fingers.

    I was able to follow your logic.

    Parent

    you can't fool me (5.00 / 8) (#16)
    by Turkana on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 04:57:57 PM EST
    hillary is objectively evil! i read it, on the daily kos rec list! every day!

    Harold Meyerson thinks so (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:05:34 PM EST
    What more do you need?

    Parent
    Eugene Robinson just said something. (none / 0) (#151)
    by ghost2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 05:17:25 AM EST
    I don't know what though.  I've stopped reading him.

    Parent
    Who is over the edge (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by koshembos on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:00:11 PM EST
    The truth is that Big T's belief that Obama is a progressive is in a huge mind stretch. The same mental stretch is now performed by many in the Netroots community. What is clearly missing, and what Krugman supplies, is the risk analysis. Not only didn't Krugman get off the edge, but a mirror image, namely all the bloggers mentioned above, applies. Too many bloggers have left the reservation. Dowd, whose talent seems to with handling mad dogs, and Rich, another mental acrobatic star, have gone from Hillary hate to even more Hillary hate.

    Kevin Drum's statement: the ugliness coming out of the Clinton camp over the past couple of weeks, which has turned me off. is made without looking at the ugliness, meanness and nastiness of the Obama camapaign. Talk about throwing darts and drawing the target afterwards.

    Interestingly to me in this campaign is the fact that Klein, Drum, Yglesias and others are as bad and as guilty and mediocre as Klein, Broder, Hiatt and others.

    Personally, I alarmed at the serious possibility that a con man such as Obama will be president.

    Disclaimer: I am and will stay an Edwards supporter.

    The blogosphere tends to support (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:05:35 PM EST
    "progressive candidate" who turn out to be blue dogs.  I think this is happening once again.


    Parent
    Oh come now. I haven't seen a single picture (none / 0) (#58)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:53:13 PM EST
    of Obama standing in a field.

    Parent
    with a tractor (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Nasarius on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:19:35 PM EST
    Don't forget the tractor.

    Parent
    Shouldn't it be a tank? (none / 0) (#128)
    by echinopsia on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:42:41 PM EST
    Yglesias had a post (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by Warren Terrer on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:04:10 PM EST
    a couple days ago in which he seriously attempted to address the burning issue of whether HRC would have invaded Iraq in 2003 had she been president at the time instead of Bush. Yes, that's the test we should be applying.

    It was simply dreadful. He couldn't even see that the premise was preposterous. I think I'll be skipping his blog until after the primaries.

    I read fewer and fewer blogs as the primaries lumber on. DKos now reads like the bathroom wall.

    Parent

    Risk Analysis (5.00 / 0) (#152)
    by ghost2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 05:22:50 AM EST
    Well said.  Why do you think serious, hard working people are for Hillary?

    I know I generalize.  But I feel like it.

    Seriously though, you think after 7 years of Bush, America will think long and hard about the next president.  But even so-called progressives have joined the new bandwagon.  I mean, this country and the world is in a f***d up state, if you pardon the expression.  

    Hypocrisy knows no bounds. On dkos, a mere mention of a republican by a democrat in a positive light was enough to get the whole site mad with rage.  But now, Obama talks about change, post-partisanship and they are eating it up.  What's even more annoying is that Obama blames the mess not on Bush, but on partisanship.  Which is utterly stupid.

    Parent

    I am an Obamanaut (none / 0) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:04:54 PM EST
    And the reason is? (none / 0) (#31)
    by oldpro on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:08:26 PM EST
    I wrote a post called (none / 0) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:11:02 PM EST
    "Why Obama" - check it out.

    Parent
    So, Michelle's comment didn't (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:15:17 PM EST
    change your mind; yet?

    Parent
    Not yet (none / 0) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:17:17 PM EST
    You will let us know, won't you? (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:21:32 PM EST
    and the nyt piece (none / 0) (#51)
    by Turkana on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:28:31 PM EST
    on his sell-out to exelon energy?

    Parent
    But HRC sold out also so its king's X. (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:37:00 PM EST
    not as (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by Turkana on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:45:26 PM EST
    blatantly. and that article underscored that obama's whole schtick of being different is nothing more than a schtick.

    Parent
    I guess I'm a "Clintonista," but (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:50:50 PM EST
    in my opinion, Obama's relationship with Rezko severely undercuts Obama's cred. on the "not one of them" issue.  

    Parent
    he lost me (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by Turkana on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:03:48 PM EST
    with mcclurkin. but rezko (not a criminal relationship, but certainly not a "different" one), his taking big money from banks and the health care industry, that nuke article- the more i learn, the more proof i find that he's really just another player. no surprise. and i prefer hillary's edwardsian health care plan, too.

    Parent
    I forgot about McClurkin. (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:11:10 PM EST
    I read the exchanges between BTD and andgarden but didn't realize what McClurkin stands for and advocates and is a symbol of.  I guess if Obama wants those ole time religion voters he has to send signals he agrees with some quite conservative views.  But it is pretty disappointing.  Of course, like the Log Cabin Republicans, I guess the demographic he offended is too small to worry about.   But, from a candidate whose audacity of hope included announcing his candidacy from the steps of the old capitol in Springfield, I expect more inclusiveness.  

    Parent
    He lost me (5.00 / 4) (#67)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:13:03 PM EST
    (sounds like a country music song) when I read on his own website that he wouldn't let his wife take a job until he met her future employer and gave his stamp of approval.  And then came the "you're likable enough" crap.  And then came the snub.  And then he lost me...he lost me, oh, mama he lost me...

    Parent
    Kathy, when people ask you who you (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:25:55 PM EST
    support, do you tell them the tale of the Michelle Obama interview?  Do they even know what you are talking about?  That's how people react to me talking about Rezko.  

    Parent
    actually... (none / 0) (#72)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:42:24 PM EST
    my story is a bit easier, because what woman would not be incensed by the story?  With Rezko, it's so convoluted and dicey and won't really make sense until the republicans boil it down to some talking points.  With the Obama work thing, it's clear-cut misogyny and they absolutely FREAK.

    But, I gotta be honest: most people I know support Hillary anyway, so it's just fuel on the fire.

    Parent

    Reno Gazette (none / 0) (#90)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:14:28 PM EST
    The entire interview, not just the clip. His disdain for Democrats, his praising of Reagan, his putting down the 60's and 70's, the fact that those struggles do not resonate with him, his Bush like " he will delegate everything, real executive work not for him", his idea of how he will come up with a health plan, his distortion of his anti war record, his voting record, when he started talking about what kind of a VP he would choose, someone that would supplement his skill weaknesses: economics, military and foreign policy. Gee, on that last one, why should I not vote for one who has those skills? I think he is super achiever who has believed his own mythology. I find that dubious and dangerous. Who will dare tell him he is not the reincarnation of JFK, MLK, Moses and the Christ Child? False idols and all that still applies.

    Parent
    What woman would not? (none / 0) (#127)
    by echinopsia on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:37:41 PM EST
    I tried to tell that story on the forum I frequent to deminstrate that Barry's not your boy when it comes to women.

    I added that sure, I would ask advice (if I though it would be valuable and appropriate) from a husband or serious BF before I applied for a job.

    Hasn't happened yet; I'm no Ivy League-educated lawyer with a politically-inclined fiance, but I think I can manage my own career. And I think having to get ANYONE's permission to take a job, or having to have anyone meet the prospective employer, would be humiliating.

    I was ripped to shreds. Apparently I said people should never involve their SOs in ANY of their decisions. I neglected to take into account that Michelle just probably thought Barry was a good/better judge of character than she was. The story just demonstrates what a wonderful marriage they have and how collaborative they are. I must be a bitter hairy-legged man-hating feminist (just like Hillary).

    These people are nuts. You cannot question the Godhead, and you may not point out disturbing things about what his holy wife says or does.

    Parent

    echinopsia... (none / 0) (#133)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 09:26:29 PM EST
    You had me at "I tried..."

    Parent
    He never had me. (none / 0) (#75)
    by g8grl on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:50:56 PM EST
    I'm just so tired of guys coming along, late in the game, talking a good story and getting the prize.  It's always the same.  A woman works hard, day after day.  Not always glamorous but grinding it out.  Laying down the infrastructure to build on.  She doesn't really get much credit and lots of folks don't like her because she just wants to get stuff done and sometimes that's not the most popular thing.  Then along comes a man who gets along, everyone likes him.  He does a couple of good things, doesn't do anything controversial which would get him on someone's bad side.  And because everyone likes him, he wins the popularity contest.  Same old story.  That's why I think it's time for a woman in the White House.  

    Parent
    That's how a female friend put it too: (none / 0) (#79)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:59:16 PM EST
    its her turn.  Not sure that will win many voters though.  

    Parent
    No -- it's our turn (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:07:46 PM EST
    I'm with Robin Morgan.  It's not because Clinton is a woman -- hardworking, brilliant, and all -- but because I'm a woman . . . and many of us women have a different perspective on many political and societal issues, and most of my stands are hers.

    I don't have problems with voting for a guy who shares my stands on my issues.  It's just that there isn't one.

    Edwards came darn close.

    Obama doesn't.

    Parent

    I did not say it (none / 0) (#87)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:08:03 PM EST
    the "R" word.

    Parent
    Such self-control. (none / 0) (#93)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:18:41 PM EST
    Its o.k., I already did.

    Parent
    so (none / 0) (#89)
    by dwightkschrute on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:12:19 PM EST
    Rezko is an issue for you but Norman Hsu is not?

    Parent
    Rezko (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:26:06 PM EST
    was a close, personal friend and worked on Obama's campaigns from the get-go.  I think it says a lot about Obama's judgment that even when the man was being seriously investigated, Obama still entered into a land deal with him.

    If you think that a funny-smelling land deal isn't important, I have but one word for you: Whitewater.

    Parent

    Hsu is a bi-bundler: Obama and HRC (none / 0) (#91)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:15:08 PM EST
    the $843,000 caveat (none / 0) (#100)
    by dwightkschrute on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:28:16 PM EST
    It's not quite fair to compare $7,000 (Hsu to Obama) with $850,000 (Hsu to Clinton).

    Parent
    how about (none / 0) (#106)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:32:09 PM EST
    900,000, Rezko to Obama vis-a-vis the land deal (300K off the price of the house, plus "giving" him the lot, or at least letting him fence in property that he does not own and joining it to his yard)

    Not for a campaign, but for personal gain.  For a yard and a driveway to park his car in.

    I didn't see this mentioned in The Audacity of Hope.  Maybe I should go to Walmart and buy a copy.  You know, Walmart, the chain that's sold hundreds of thousands of copies of his books.

    Did he donate that money to charity?  I didn't see it mentioned on his tax form.  Granted, I was a little blown away by the folks his wife was "working" for, but maybe you can go look for me and explain...

    what Obama meant.

    Parent

    Maytag workers? (none / 0) (#112)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:37:13 PM EST
    Did not support them when they closed plant, oops he did not know one of his big supporters was on Maytag Board.  

    Oops did not know  Rezko's properties were failing when he took money and made the real estate deal.

    Oops, did not know he pushed the wrong votes.

    Oops, he did it again and again.

    If Chicago was so filled with pitfalls, what about Washington?  

    Parent

    wow lots of spite and inaccuracies (none / 0) (#119)
    by dwightkschrute on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:00:15 PM EST
    First off I don't think there's a need to go at Clinton for Hsu or Obama for Rezko. I was just saying it's a bit odd to use Rezko as an example when Hsu is as bad if not worse.

    Ok, as to the off base allegations here's where a little understanding of the facts would help. Obama did not buy his house from Rezko. Yes, he paid $300,000 less than the $1.9 million listing after the house had been on the market unsuccessfully for 3 months, but again it was not from Rezko. Rezko's wife bought an undeveloped lot at the same time from the same owner. Later, Obama bought from Rezko 1/6 of the vacant lot for $104,500, which was 1/6 of what Rezko paid for the entire lot. Despite no clear evidence of wrongdoing, Obama himself has called his action in this matter "bone-headed".

    And yes, he has donated all donations from, or tied to, Rezko to charity.

    Parent

    No, a lot of Rezko gang's money not (none / 0) (#123)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:10:03 PM EST
    donated yet and still in Obama's coffers, according to the Chicago press, ABC, etc.

    As for the rest of the above, that is quite an oversimplification.  The two Obamas got a deal on the driveway that wasn't part of their property and now greatly increases its value.  Etc. . . .

    The deal stinks.

    Parent

    From ABC News (none / 0) (#124)
    by dwightkschrute on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:14:25 PM EST
    The campaign of Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama is donating to charity an additional $72,650 in contributions linked to Antoin "Tony" Rezko.

    With the latest donations, Obama has returned a total of $149,985 in contributions from Rezko and his associates since Rezko was indicted on federal fraud charges in the fall of 2006.



    Parent

    Still another $50,000 difference (none / 0) (#135)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 10:07:25 PM EST
    according to Chicago press.  Total -- $200,000 in donations from Rezko and his bf's.

    Parent
    3 months on the market (none / 0) (#131)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 09:20:49 PM EST
    The average home in that area in that price range spent ten to twelve months on the market.  Do you know who owned the house and took 300K less after only three months?  Michelle Obama's boss.

    (hey, does anyone have access to MLS in Chicago?  Because you could find out the purchase price of the house and the land when Obama's boss first bought it.  Ooh!  Ooh!  Taylor Marsh, here I come!)

    Parent

    hey, dont let facts (none / 0) (#136)
    by Tano on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 10:07:57 PM EST
    get in the way of a little hate-fest

    Parent
    For Future Reference (none / 0) (#121)
    by MO Blue on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:07:19 PM EST
    Norman Hsu made political contributions to Obama, helped host a California event for his political action committee and introduced the senator from Illinois to one of the biggest fundraisers for his presidential bid.

    Not a good debating point IMO.

    Parent

    IIRC Obama In An Iowa Speech (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by MO Blue on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:22:59 PM EST
    claimed that the bill passed when it did not. That bothered me more than the spin.

    Parent
    just watch the (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:26:42 PM EST
    big, giant head, folks.  Don't look behind the curtain.

    Parent
    Got it. Talent and hope... (none / 0) (#50)
    by oldpro on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:27:23 PM EST
    ...that the MSM won't turn on him...hooboy...that's a big one.  They won't, of course, until he gets the nomination and puts the Clintons in cold storage.

    A faith-based decision, as you admitted some time ago.

    But how will you get him elected in the general?

    Parent

    Here's a summary: faith, media darling, and (none / 0) (#46)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:20:04 PM EST
    Hillary hate.  

    Subtext may be:  support for driver licensese for undocumenteds and speech against invasion of Iraq while an IL state senator.

    Parent

    Actually, my summary was unfair. (none / 0) (#47)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:20:47 PM EST
    Hilary hate by others lessens HRC's electability.  

    Parent
    TPM is down. Must have been overwhelmed (none / 0) (#26)
    by Angel on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:06:37 PM EST
    with all the Obama fans hating on HRC.

    Parent
    Trojan Horse-Breathtaking sense of entitlement (none / 0) (#118)
    by lily15 on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:55:34 PM EST
    That's all you need to remember.  These so called progressive writers are in on it.  No rational person with a good college education could publish such a weak and absurd analysis of the candidates (and why his choice was superior) and not be embarrassed...Drum and the others of his ilk are shills.  Only Krugman is intellectually honest.  The rest want to be in the in crowd or the paid well crowd.  But when Democrats lose because of Obama hysteria, these blogs will lose readership...the fall out will be huge.  The desire to punish these lying pieces of trash will be intense.  After being lied to by the MSM while Bush and his merry Republicans raped this country in full view of a  media that stood by in mute deference, we find ourselves facing the same behavior in the blogs...as they blot out Obama's record and trash Hillary's.

     Ignominy isn't enough for these traitors.  Not because they have a different opinion...but because they are intellectually dishonest.  As for women?  It will sink in for enough women...that they have been betrayed. Obama, the Trojan Horse, with his racial credentials, is destroying the Democratic party at its very core.  He and his arrogant, mean wife...are the worst examples of liberal elites...with Harvard degrees..and undeserved credibility.

    Their sense of entitlement is breathtaking.

    Parent

    Another Antidote to the Hate (5.00 / 5) (#25)
    by BDB on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:06:26 PM EST
    Vastleft on Corrente, who recently endorsed Clinton after Edwards dropped out, explains why he hates Hillary Clinton.  Among the reasons:

    Because she's so old, and the Baby Boomers ruined everything. Youth voting is inspiring. Older voters? Ho-hum.

    Because she thinks the progressive fights of the 1960s and 1990s are still worth fighting

    Because her campaign is focused on energizing Democrats instead of those all-important Independents and repentant Republicans (in case there are any)

    Because her husband ran on that awful, triangulating "third way," unlike Obama's awesome triangulating post-partisanship

    Because she's too much like a Republican, and not in some undefinable awesome way that appeals to Republicans but is really incredibly progressive

    Because she supported the war since the beginning, while Obama was gracious enough to wait until he was in the Senate to support the war



    VastLeft is quite a wit (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:07:58 PM EST
    You should see (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by andgarden on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:12:54 PM EST
    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by BDB on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:16:13 PM EST
    Another example of Vastleft's wit - Breaking Hillary Clinton Sneezes.  Excerpt:

    An unnamed source from the Obama campaign suggests that the sneeze may have been on purpose, perhaps to curry favor with the pharmaceutical lobby.

    Heh.  Sometimes wit really is the best weapon.

    Parent

    New talking points (5.00 / 0) (#153)
    by ghost2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 05:24:44 AM EST
    When Hillary compromises, she is a triangulating sellout.  

    When Obama compromises, he is a unifying visionary.

    Parent

    Hillary on Hallmark (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:07:24 PM EST
    Has banned the press.  Holy crap, I didn't know you could do that.  I think this ties into our topic nicely: if you can't get a fair shake, stop paying their way.  Why have them there when they are just waiting to pounce?  I also read that the campaign has stopped paying travel expenses for reporters to follow Bill around, which might explain why they have stopped picking on him so much.  They should've done this ages ago.

    And, before Obamagoobers come out in full swing, Obama stays in first class on the plane and seldom goes back to talk to the press, but when he does, he refuses to go on record with them.

    "Transparency"

    Who Can Blame Her? (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by BDB on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:12:51 PM EST
    Her new openness with the press that she started a couple of weeks ago got her decent press coverage for like a day and then it went back to the same old crap.

    One of the many reasons why I support her is that a win by her has the capacity to severely weaken the pundits' influence.  I admit it has the chance of making her less electable, but to me I'd rather take that risk to try and break the influence of the media, than take the risk on Obama, which in part relies on gaming the broken media system.

    Parent

    Hell yes you can do that. (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by echinopsia on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:51:28 PM EST
    I used to be a tech reporter. One sentence in a review of a conference that criticized the food, and the organization's president revoked my press privileges.  

    It's not considered ethical, since you are not supposed to treat the press as though they are part of your marketing department. But I can certainly understand why she did it for tonight's event.

    And it may not be because she's tired of getting stabbed in the back. It could be because the press is incredibly distracting, and this is supposed to be about the people. The press can watch it on TV.

    Parent

    Why is it that legitimate (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by BernieO on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:20:55 PM EST
    criticism of the substance of Obama's proposals is "going over a cliff" or "playing hardball". Krugman is one of the most intelligent, well-informed economists we have. If he has a problem with Obama's positions, he should say so. Who better than someone who is actually an expert? To criticise each equally is intellectually dishonest if the facts convince you that one person has the better positions.
    I have yet to see anyone point to a well-respected economic analyst who thinks Obama's position on health care - the single most important domestic problem that faces our country in the long run - is better than Hillary's. You could probably get some free market fundamentalist, supply side ideologue to make that judgment but they are about as fact-based and objective as Bush is.

    apparently not (5.00 / 0) (#154)
    by ghost2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 05:31:00 AM EST
    some old farts on the blogsphere who used to yap about 'issues' and 'fairnesss' and 'media bias' and you name it, now have problem with Krugman specifying in detail his differences with a candidate's position.

    Look, I even thought (and I think I was right) that Krugman was mostly an Edwards fan. But he is an honest man, and he got p***ed over social security cuteness from Obama campaign.  

    Obama campaign treated him like an opponent and were vicious.  Now, Kevin Drum complains about viciousness of the Clinton campaign? Give me a break.  (really want to swear, but don't think Jeralyn would approve!)

    Parent

    Great review in NEWSWEEK (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:53:36 PM EST
    of 30 Ways of Looking at Hillary, wherein well educated women pounce on Hillary from everything from her headbands to staying with Bill.  In sum:

    "The problem is that many of the authors seem unaware of how much support Hillary has among women.  Roiphe [one of the writers] declares, 'I have yet to meet a woman who likes Hillary Clinton.'  How, then, to explain the polling that has consistently shown blue collar women have rallied to Clinton's campaign?  ...  So, not all women think the same way.  It's just that some voices are a lot louder than others."

    It's kind of like the way I've seen some of my well-educated friends (most of whom had abortions in college) turn anti-choice in later life.  Everything we fought for they are now turning their backs on because they don't feel like they NEED the freedoms anymore.  Title 9, choice, the ERA?  What's it to them?  (I am hoping this will change when their daughters get to be teenagers)

    The problem is that there is a complete disconnect between wealthy, well educated women and the average woman who has two jobs, no insurance and can barely feed her kids.  I don't understand where it comes from.  My granny would call it "forgetting your roots."  I would call it turning your back on the people who got you where you are.

    "[S]ulfurous emanations (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:02:57 PM EST
    from the national collective unconscious"

    Good, eh?

    Parent

    change later in life (none / 0) (#77)
    by tek on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:53:45 PM EST
    Unfortunately these women don't change when their daughters become teenagers. I can't tell you how many 14, 15, 16 year old girls I have see in my community have to go through life-threatening preganancies because their mothers are now born-again Christians--women who were entirely wild in their own youth.

    Parent
    hatred (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by phat on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:02:32 PM EST
    The hatred of Hillary is visceral to the point of dehumanizing. It's truly awful.

    And I suspect that Obama's positioning and rhetoric has helped fan this flame.

    phat

    Anyone that buys into (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by athyrio on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:03:24 PM EST
    Hillary hatred, obviously lacks the ability to think for themselves and in reality hates themselves...

    hillary hate (5.00 / 0) (#74)
    by tek on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:50:44 PM EST
    Taylor Marsh has a good piece up about how Democratic men have responded to the candidacy of a woman and it isn't pretty. What bothers me even more is the reaction of so-called progressive women to Hillary Clinton.  As Taylor said, I'll never feel quite the same about Democrats again. At least Republicans are honest, they come right out and say women should be at home in the kitchen.

    Interesting (none / 0) (#82)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:01:26 PM EST
    Did a lot of calling today, and many Democrats said that to me, that the party has been divided.

    Parent
    I amy not be progressive (none / 0) (#96)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:20:57 PM EST
    but I am a man and a Democrat.

    Parent
    1972 The Dem big love fest (5.00 / 0) (#109)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:34:10 PM EST
    I was one of the kids that took over the party.  And look what happened.  I thought Mr. Unity would do a better job at it instead of blowing it assunder. I guess it's Karma.  

    Parent
    I prefer my nostalgic assessment of (none / 0) (#111)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:36:16 PM EST
    McGovern not as Mr. Unity but as Mr. Right on getting out of Vietnam now.  

    Parent
    Agreed... (none / 0) (#113)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:38:19 PM EST
    How many states did we lose?  49....

    Parent
    Maybe we should a blog devoted (5.00 / 0) (#114)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:39:48 PM EST
    to Why McGovern Lost.

    Parent
    It hurt. (none / 0) (#116)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:44:26 PM EST
    Memories still painful.  I had convinced a nephew who was 12 at the time to go for McGovern and they did a straw poll in his class and he was the only one.  He still has trauma--blames me.  

    Parent
    Thats simple (none / 0) (#139)
    by Tano on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 10:16:57 PM EST
    he was against the war.
    Single issue.
    By time election day rolled around, our involvement was effectivly over.


    Parent
    You are fair and objective. (5.00 / 0) (#155)
    by ghost2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 05:34:45 AM EST
    and you acknowledge the crap that is hurled in Hillary's way.  

    I didn't know so much misogeny existed in leftly blogsphere.  This election opened my eyes, and of many other women's.

    Parent

    Hey BTD Did You Legally Change Your Name (none / 0) (#126)
    by MO Blue on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:32:34 PM EST
    This was in the comments at TPM on MO GMA interview. Thought you might get a laugh out of it. Couldn't post on MO post. Just too full.

    Yeah! Paul Rosenberg, writing as Big Tent Democrat, was spreading the vapors about this earlier. The truth is: she said everyone would support the nominee of the party. She failed to say she would campaign for the nominee, which is understandable given the Clintons' behavior post-Iowa through South Carolina. I don't even know if I can vote for HRC. And I know all you TPM people will say that's immature, but they weren't talking about you. Were they?


    Parent
    Taylor Marsh (none / 0) (#138)
    by Tano on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 10:14:34 PM EST
    is a complete, over the top, Hillary lover. And Obama hater. And all she seems to do is to find new themes around which to express that.

    Parent
    coming from Obama supporters (none / 0) (#156)
    by ghost2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 05:35:26 AM EST
    this expressions are funny.  Thanks for the laugh of the day.

    Parent
    Geek endorses Hillary. Has Hell (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by oldpro on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:53:25 PM EST
    frozen over?

    Check it on on DK.  An amazind diary.

    ULTRA Geek (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:03:21 PM EST
    an old dkos hand.

    Used to war with him in the Clark-Dean days.

    Parent

    Big difference. (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:06:58 PM EST
    Yes. I remember. (none / 0) (#85)
    by oldpro on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:06:56 PM EST
    And now we are all with Hillary while you are...somwhere else.

    Parent
    I see glacial incremental change. (none / 0) (#92)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:17:48 PM EST
    Global warming (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by oldpro on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:20:47 PM EST
    is our only hope?

    Jeez Louise!  Oh, wait...better not say "Louise..."

    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#94)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:19:51 PM EST
    Let me ask you something, do you really think WHO I support matters that much?

    Heck, anything I write matter not at all.

    I just write what I think. I have zero influence.

    I had a little more on Iraq funding last year, which demonstrates how pathetic my influence level is on this.

    Parent

    Not in the larger picture...no. (none / 0) (#101)
    by oldpro on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:28:51 PM EST
    What you write or I write or, evidently, what Wes Clark writes doesn't matter "that much."

    Zero influence?  Probably wrong about that.  Zero?  Nah.  

    We all have influence on others which isn't measurable...or even known.  But dialogue about real politics and real candidates may open the minds of some to see -- something or someone -- in a way they didn't see before.  Education.  Ideas.  Facts.

    It doesn't matter?  We are only engaging in entertainment?

    Good to know.

    Parent

    I write what I think (none / 0) (#117)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:50:38 PM EST
    which matters to me.

    If it entertains you, that is a bonus, for you.

    Parent

    Well.....try not to take this too (none / 0) (#132)
    by oldpro on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 09:21:55 PM EST
    personally but the act needs work if you're going to take it on the road and charge admission!  Of course, costumes and background music would be good...and if you could work up a rap delivery you'd be a hit with the kiddies...but then you'd lose me and the older folks.  Oh, well...

    Online...more engaging than most.

    Parent

    I do, I really do. You are so bright (none / 0) (#103)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:29:54 PM EST
    and analytical and interested in dissecting politics.  How could you, of all people, choose who to support Obama based on faith and that fact the media, lots of blogs and bloggers and others have irrational hatred of HRC?  

    Parent
    It matters to me (none / 0) (#130)
    by echinopsia on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 09:00:49 PM EST
    Because this is the ONLY place I know of where the two principal bloggers are for two different candidates, and yet you and Jeralyn still manage to be fair.

    You are about the only Obama supporter I can think of who is not a member of the cult.

    You stay for Obama. You give me "hope" that they're not all cultists.

    Parent

    Come BTD (none / 0) (#157)
    by ghost2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 05:37:50 AM EST
    Vote for someone you really believe in!

    Parent
    He pretty well speaks for me! (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by RalphB on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:01:35 PM EST
    no snark tag? (none / 0) (#81)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:01:24 PM EST
    Yes, And His Diary Made It To The Rec List n/t (none / 0) (#104)
    by MO Blue on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:30:18 PM EST
    Amazing (none / 0) (#115)
    by phat on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:41:45 PM EST
    Really well written and if I could write, I could have written that.

    phat

    Parent

    Not Just Obamanauts (none / 0) (#1)
    by tjproudamerican on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 04:23:56 PM EST
    One can be sick of the Clinton's and not be an Obamanaut or conservative.

    Their record is mixed. I voted twice for each of them and now, like an ex-smoker, even the whiff of them makes me sick, but I am not for McCain (who I think may be crazy), Huckabee (who is, and is a dangerous religious nut to boot), nor any of the other Gang of Empty-Headed Billionaires like Romney or the midget mayor of NYC.

    I know nothing of Obama except that in the one debate I watched Hillary so badly misrepresented his remarks I had a sudden awakening that she and her husband do say and do anything.

    This is a tough election. I know there are people who are enthusiastic for Hillary, but most of the heat and passion and fire and excitement travels with Obama.

    According to you people, Obama is some kind of Liebocrat (and therefore like Liebocrat, a fascist, and I DO loathe Lieberman). I think Hillary has, and always has had the nomination wrapped up and I wonder why she and Bill chose to drive away long-time supporters like me. (I guess Toto always gets to the curtain eventually).

    It is sad.

    But please don't think only enemies of progressive ideas are sick of the Clinton's. You are wrong at least about my politics and me. They got my contempt the old fashioned, Popeye-way: eventually, it was all I could stand because I couldn't stand no more. And I write this in sorrow and fear for the future because the Supreme Court is already evil from my point of view.


    Details? (5.00 / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 04:31:46 PM EST
    I know nothing of Obama except that in the one debate I watched Hillary so badly misrepresented his remarks I had a sudden awakening that she and her husband do say and do anything.

    Also, if you twice voted for HRC as NY Senator, why do you now not support her candidacy?

    Parent

    I think you're making Krugman's point (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Jack Frost on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 04:39:43 PM EST
    The double standard in what you just said is astonishing.
    Obama too has not only misrepresented Clinton's remarks but has outright lied on stage at debates and the media and blogs gave him a TOTAL pass -  1 example: Obama claimed that Bill Clinton said Obama was never against the war - which Obama knew to be false, he knew they were criticizing his transformational position over time.  Yet he still said it.  not a peep from Dkos, Openleft, TPM, etc

    you had an awakening that the Clintons would "say and do anything " to win???  HAHA! Is that about the time the Obama campaign made that their mantra against the Clintons in South Carolina?

    Its totally legitimate for you to not like a candidate, but conversely its legitimate to point out the imbalance and unfairness in which Obama supporters rationalize their arguments.  Maybe that is his strength .. that he gets a pass where others do not

    Parent

    What are you talking about? (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by IndependantThinker on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:03:53 PM EST
    What hateful, negative criticism has come out of the Clinton camp in the last few weeks?? Maybe you are confusing the Clintons with the MSM? Or, gasp! the Obama camp.

    Parent
    You read like an Obamanaut (none / 0) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 04:34:58 PM EST
    just sayin'

    Parent
    Hahaha! (none / 0) (#5)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 04:36:19 PM EST
    I'm glad you said it and not me.  

    Parent
    Is it "naut," not "nut"? (none / 0) (#71)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:26:56 PM EST
    She also coined "electable suit," (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 04:43:44 PM EST
    which was before the upcoming Vanity Fair photo shoot.

    Media Matters (none / 0) (#18)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:01:38 PM EST
    After this election cycle it DEFINITELY needs to start covering the blogosphere.

    So since you counting (none / 0) (#35)
    by Jgarza on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:12:06 PM EST
    whats your how many of your posts have been critical of Obama v critical of Clinton.  If it is uneven will you admit you are bias?  Or do you get a different standard?

    Missed the point (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:16:24 PM EST
    Krugman is AGAINST the counting. But if you are GOING TO COUNT, then count EVERYBODY.

    Go do a count of Josh Marshall if you like.

    MY point, I think Krugman's point, is WHAT ARE the critiques? Do they have merit? That is the point.

    Parent

    I wish you knew me (none / 0) (#43)
    by tjproudamerican on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:16:55 PM EST
    Please forgive this post for being long. I am a real person.

    I wish you knew me. I would give you my address and phone number. I live in Buffalo, NY, voted for Bill and Hillary twice, saw them both speak many, many times.

    I always excused what they did.

    I had doubts all along, but the Clinton's were almost always better than their enemies. The murder of Rector was unforgivable. But Clinton had enemies and Democratic candidates cannot afford to be seen as "weak" on crime.

    The secrecy surrounding HillaryCare was necessary, supposedly, and when it got shot down (unfairly, I think), the Clinton's retreated on the whole issue. Bill declared "The Era of Big Government is over." Which I guess meant that the corporations were our only hope. Welfare "Reform" punished the poor, yes, but he won his second term on the backs of the poorest, so it was worth it.  Real wages did go up.

    He retired to make tons of money, but again, all for a good cause.

    Hillary's cowardly vote to go to war was said to be politically smart, because "The Left doesn't matter." She could bask in the reflected glow of Dumbo's triumph.

    None of what I say makes Obama a good candidate. But criticizing the Clinton's enemies doesn't make them good either. I wonder if there are many people like me who are sick of them. All defenses of the Clinton's begin with "Others do the same thing..."

    The Huffington Post reports that last year Hillary refused to vote to ban "cluster bombs". She is tough on National Security Issues. I guess that makes her our best candidate. Some of you are excited about her and I wonder why.

    Big Tent, if you write me an e-mail I will try to prove to you I am a real person. I hope I am a lone crank. Maybe the rest of the liberal and progressive ranks fall in behind her.

    Would it help if I bad-mouthed Obama?


    hillary hate (none / 0) (#78)
    by tek on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:55:40 PM EST
    LOL, trusting anything you read in Huffington Post! That's the funniest thing I've read this month.

    Parent
    This (none / 0) (#52)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:36:25 PM EST
    This may be no more than the press goinf after the front runner.  A horse race sells papers.

    Just Like They (none / 0) (#54)
    by squeaky on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:40:58 PM EST
    Are going after McCain?  Or was it Giulaiani? Romney?

    Stop making excuses. The press hates Clintons it is a fact.

    Parent

    Obamites are all so sure (none / 0) (#65)
    by g8grl on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:06:49 PM EST
    that their man is going to appeal across party lines and yet no one has addressed the fact that those Republicans and Independents are exactly the least likely to overcome their bigotry and vote for a black man.  No one ever talks about it but the Bradley effect is real.

    Most Republicans I know in NJ (none / 0) (#88)
    by hellskitchen on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:10:29 PM EST
    who are of the outmoded liberal Republican variety are for John McCain.

    Parent
    oh really? I though the talking point was (none / 0) (#137)
    by Tano on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 10:12:42 PM EST
    that the only reason Obama is doing so well in the primaries is that republicans and independents ARE voting for him.

    Just so confusing...

    Parent

    They want him in the primary (none / 0) (#140)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 10:38:11 PM EST
    That's why Brooks, Luntz, etal. are piling on, saying wonderful things about him.

    When the generals come around, they're going to suck their people right back up under their wing.

    Parent

    Ugliness? (none / 0) (#69)
    by TheRealFrank on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:25:15 PM EST
    The "ugliness" from the "Clinton camp" is standard campaign talk, and has been matched by the "Obama camp" on several occasions.

    But, in the Church of Clinton Hate (CCH), the basic truth is that the Clintons are evil. Everything else is based on that. But don't you dare challenge the basic truth of the universe that the Clintons are Evil.


    Not all the youth is (none / 0) (#73)
    by athyrio on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:49:47 PM EST
    in love Thought you'd enjoy this headline from the Syracuse Post Standard, "Obama rally falls short". A rally at Syracuse University drew 19 supporters and 11 media with Obama....

    Jack Nicholson (none / 0) (#102)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:29:34 PM EST
    Endorses Hillary...yes.  Easy Rider, take that Grateful Dead.  

    Ha. Take that Robert DeNiro. (none / 0) (#105)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:30:43 PM EST
    Nicholson says he's looking for love.  Thought he would be in Obama's camp.

    Parent
    He's not gay. (none / 0) (#107)
    by oldpro on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:32:22 PM EST
    Are you insinuating the (none / 0) (#108)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:34:05 PM EST
    Male Kennedy endorsers are?  

    Parent
    Not likely! (none / 0) (#110)
    by oldpro on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:35:03 PM EST
    Pretty funny, tho!  LOL

    Parent
    How are all you Hillary lovers doing (none / 0) (#125)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:20:33 PM EST
    over here today? ;)

    Hillary Hate Antidote # 2 (none / 0) (#141)
    by BDB on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 11:15:21 PM EST
    Via commenter on correntewire, Hillary reacts to Ann Coulter's endorsement.  

    And for those who haven't seen it, lambert has endorsed Hillary Clinton.  Yes, hell has frozen over, go out and sin to your heart's content.  From his endorsement:

    Now that Edwards is out of the race I find myself, like VastLeft, surprised, even chagrined, to find myself endorsing Hillary. But there it is. I wish this could be something other than a rambling, impressionistic post, but heck: Maybe that's how we all make decisions anyhow.

    My bottom line is this:

    I feel that I know Hillary. For all her faults, I know her.

    I want to entrust the very challenging future of our country to someone I know. Simple as that.

    I don't feel that I know Obama, and the more I learn about him, the less I like.

    When I think about Hillary, I think of incredible discipline, focus, courage, and endurance in the face of constant, manufactured hatred by the same people and institutions who are also assaulting our Constitutional form of government. Her ability to "work every day" in the face of all that tells me a lot--and maybe all I need to know--about her strength of character.



    Thanks, (none / 0) (#143)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 11:40:07 PM EST
    Brilliant, sorry for being a blogger idiot, who is he, cannot find in his web page.

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    Does the Link Not Work? (none / 0) (#144)
    by BDB on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 12:18:23 AM EST
    It works (none / 0) (#145)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 12:46:53 AM EST
    But I am trying to find out about him on the site and I cannot, is he writer, poet, prof, plumber? Does not even matter, it was a brilliant , it had all the critical points.

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    The main site (none / 0) (#146)
    by BDB on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 12:56:02 AM EST
    is a collection of blogs, called correntewire.  It can be found here.  Or you can click on the banner that says Corrente at the top of the link to the endorsement.

    Lambert was recently cited by Krugman, which is how I found him, for this post - Obama Stump Speech Strategy Of Conciliation Considered Harmful

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    Thanks... (none / 0) (#147)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 01:04:35 AM EST
    See, we now find some really good voices out there through necessity.

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    Modern Icons and their meaning. (none / 0) (#142)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 11:20:10 PM EST
    I was looking yesterday at the 'icons" that were paraded to represent the modern JFK, Barack Obama. Frst we had Oprah, a plutocrat, then the aristocrats: Maria Shriver, Caroline Kennedy and Ted Kennedy. It looked like a weekend at the Hamptons in People magazine photo op. Is this populism? Or am I getting something wrong? Do these guys think that the average joe will identify with them vs. a war hero?

    Stellaaa (5.00 / 0) (#159)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 08:02:50 AM EST
    the problem is that Obama is a brand (like Kleenex and Activ-On, which you apply directly to the forehead).  He needs these celebrity endorsements to promote the brand.  It's pure marketing.  Axlehead has created a product that everyone wants.  This is why Obama is never specific--so he can be all things to all people.  Student?  I support legalizing pot.  Insurance honcho?  I don't support universal healthcare.  etc.

    He is the iPhone of politics.  Gotta have it now and load onto it whatever you want.

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    I like that (none / 0) (#160)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 10:01:42 AM EST
    Am I at a rally or a weekend at the Hamptons.

    Yes, the "progressive blogosphere," those interested in the "little guy".

    LOL!

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