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Obama Says Hillary Thinks GOP Is Bad, He Does Not

By Big Tent Democrat

Via Chris Bowers, party building Obama style:

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Thursday he would be more willing than Hillary Rodham Clinton to work with Republicans.

"Her natural inclination is to draw a picture of Republicans as people who need to be crushed and defeated," Obama said during a telephone interview from Texas with the Cincinnati Enquirer editorial board. "It's not entirely her fault. She's been the target of some unfair attacks in the past."

"I'm not a person who believes any one party has a monopoly on wisdom," Obama said.

(Emphasis supplied.) Indeed. Who needs a Democratic Congress? Not Obama apparently.

NOTE - comments are now closed.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Well I hope he gets a Democratic Congress (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Florida Resident on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:46:28 AM EST
    if he is elected.  Cause if he gets a Republican Senate or House he will learn real fast how they deal with  people who need to be crushed and defeated,

    I'm sure he does to... (none / 0) (#190)
    by ObamaMaMa on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:14:54 AM EST
    I think BTD was awfully irresponsible here.

    Obama said, rightly, that our party (nor any party) has no monopoly on wisdom.

    So the logical conclusion drawn by BTD was.... Obama doesn't believe we need a Democratic congress?

    This is just entirely inflammatory. And, frankly, if something like that was posted in a comment, that comment would probably be removed.

    And.. ya know.. I'm really disheartened by the way so many Clinton supporters frame the opposition we have with the GOP.

    So many of you believe that the only choice we have is to destroy them and steamroll over them and take what we want.

    But tell me: How well has that worked for us in the past, oh, 30 years? What major problems have we solved? What great advances have we made?

    Obama has made it clear in his record that he has no problem taking the fight to the GOP. He's shown he has a prowess at gaining an advantage in negotiations, but still leaving something on the table for the opposition.

    Look at the VERY contentious disputes Obama has already had in the Senate with John McCain.

    I'm reminded of a line in the West Wing that went something like this: I want to win; You want to beat them; which is a problem for me because I WANT TO WIN.

    And that's what I see here. It doesn't matter to you that Obama is a strong advocate of our progressive agenda. It doesn't matter that Obama has empowered our parties Net Roots and Grass Roots as perhaps no other modern candidacy has. It doesn't matter at all, because it seems that you care about our agenda so long as the number one point in our agenda is to first DESTROY the GOP.

    Obama wants to win; Hillary wants to beat the GOP.

    What's ironic about all of this is that Bill Clinton was ANYTHING but a man who sought to destroy the GOP. He didn't advance a progressive agenda, he won by co-opting the Conservative Agenda and passing it in the best possible way causing as little damage as possible to the people of our nation and to our progressive causes.

    Welfare reform, NAFTA, "Era of Big Gov't is Over," School Uniforms, V-Chips, etc.

    All I'm saying is that Clinton supporters jump up and down on Obama anytime he suggests that the GOP is not, in fact, the scourge of the Earth.

    I'm as angry at them as anyone for the state of our nation. But I'd rather WIN, you'd rather BEAT THEM.

    [ Parent ]

    what will it take (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:50:31 AM EST
    to wake up the leftie brigades for Obama?
    he praises republicans he says he wont scare the homophobes for the sake of civil rights, what will it take?
    think they will get it once they are actually UNDER the bus?


    If 8 Years of Wreckage (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by Athena on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:34:29 AM EST
    ..are not enough to make Obama shed his accommodation of the GOP - what will it take?  Doesn't this guy have any standards?

    Will Obama define what "wisdom" he locates in the GOP?  I'm waiting.

    [ Parent ]

    so much for obama mania! (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:06:09 AM EST
    so much for bush mania! flowing rhetoric (written by someone else) and verbally challenged and neither has real common sense!

    [ Parent ]
    american idol redux! (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:17:48 AM EST
    i try and not watch jay lino where they ask people on the street questions about geography, etc. the amount of uninformed and poorly educated people boggles the mind. not to say that uneducated make poor political choices all the time. often they rely on good common sense which many have. my neighbor is a retired attorney who has his law degree from harvard. he is voting for obama.

    i just wish folks would indulge in critical thinking.

    [ Parent ]

    OT: Captain Howdy (2.00 / 1) (#8)
    by kmblue on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:52:49 AM EST
    is your handle perchance an "Exorcist" reference?
    if so, how clever!  

    [ Parent ]
    "Exorcist" (none / 0) (#9)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:53:51 AM EST
    of course
    I am an effects guy.


    [ Parent ]
    I love it! (none / 0) (#11)
    by kmblue on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:55:05 AM EST
    thanks for confirmation.

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe manna from Heaven (none / 0) (#6)
    by Florida Resident on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:51:49 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    praises? (none / 0) (#10)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:53:57 AM EST
    Please tell me how Obama "praises" Republicans here.

    [ Parent ]
    Yep (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:57:01 AM EST
    Not a kind word at all for the GOP there.

    Nor a negative one for Hillary for distrusting the GOP.

    You are funny.

    [ Parent ]

    Come on. (none / 0) (#23)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:03:58 AM EST
    There is a difference between "praising" somebody/something and saying saying a kind word about somebody/something, and you know it.

    [ Parent ]
    Actually (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:05:20 AM EST
    no I do not see the difference.

    Tell me, can you find the argument for why voters should vote for Democrats in that statement? I sure can't.

    [ Parent ]

    There is a difference between "praising" (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:09:38 AM EST
    for me, I do not think the republican party has been the "party of ideas" for the last few decades.
    I do not think Reagan was transformational beyond transforming trees to polluters and ketchup to a food group.


    [ Parent ]
    And starting the process that (none / 0) (#45)
    by Florida Resident on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:12:13 AM EST
    has destroyed the American economy.

    [ Parent ]
    No (none / 0) (#47)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:12:24 AM EST
    I can't either.  But that was not related to what Obama was saying.

    I understand what you are saying, and I understand where you are coming from.

    But lets be honest - this statement was made to get Republicans to like him, and in turn vote for him even though his policies are are the "left" end of the spectrum of those in the Senate.  

    [ Parent ]

    They are? (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Florida Resident on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:15:03 AM EST
    funny but I thought both Obama and Hillary are more to the center of the political spectrum.

    [ Parent ]
    they are... (none / 0) (#62)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:18:27 AM EST
    ... but not among Senators and Democrats.

    I have said this numerous times.  Both Clinton and Obama are moderately progressive, and not nearly as progressive as I would like them to be.

    BUT... both are more progressive than most of their colleagues in the Senate.

    [ Parent ]

    If you understand what I am saying (none / 0) (#83)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:21:55 AM EST
    why not actually comment on what I am saying.

    [ Parent ]
    He actually praises himself.... (5.00 / 3) (#76)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:20:59 AM EST
    ...for liking Republicans and disses us for not liking them. :)

    [ Parent ]
    how Obama "praises" Republicans (2.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:55:27 AM EST
    how much time do you have?


    [ Parent ]
    Oh this is too funny (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by kmblue on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:51:15 AM EST
    high broderism at its finest.

    The closer he gets to the center (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:56:24 AM EST
    The fewer the differences people will find between him and McCain...

    ...

    the more RELIABLE VOTERS will say, gee, Ralph Nader is right, there are no differences between Republicans and Democrats! Why don't I vote for the one with more experience.

    And they'll pull the McCain lever.

    The Democratic Party doesn't have the monopoly on wisdom, but it SHOULD have the monopoly on Democratic votes.  These kinds of statements will ensure that it will not.

    In 2000 George Bush (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by sancho on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:12:06 AM EST
    of course ran as a uniter who promised to work with Democrats. Anybody from Texas (as I am) knew that was a joke--and look how well he has worked with Democrats since.

    This time, copying Bush's winnng campaign strategy, Obama promises to work with Republicans. This time, I fear, the promise is not a joke--except yet another one that will be perpetrated on "Democrats."

    Obama will work with Republicans. Frankly, I can see him accidentally giving Roe away just to get some Repub. street cred.

    He is a Lieberman uniter come to exalt himself at the expense of the democratic party.

    On the upside, Obama likley will not beat McCain and after '08 we can continue to pretend that the arrival of the Democratic party is nigh. We'll get'em next time--the usual refrain since '68.

    [ Parent ]

    Amen (none / 0) (#160)
    by sara seattle on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:04:15 AM EST
    Bush - the Uniter

    and now Obama has taken on the same meme

    Obama - the Uniter

    It gives me the creeps - I do not want the next President to be anything like the Bush Precidency -- but there are similarities - the adolation, the "he can do no wrong"

    I would feel better about the Obama followers - if just once in a while there would be some critical words of Obama -- but that would be so wrong - how can Obama be wrong?? yiiikkkkeeees

    [ Parent ]

    A book I read in the 60's (none / 0) (#19)
    by Florida Resident on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:01:26 AM EST
    or was it the 70's? called "Fat Cats and Democrats" had this words in it's introduction " The only difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is the Name " is Obama out to prove the author of the book right?

    [ Parent ]
    use your logic (none / 0) (#113)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:37:15 AM EST
    If I say, "you know, I think the Dems are right 95% of the time, but that 5% of the time the GOP is right" -- does that mean I am calling them the same?

    [ Parent ]
    I don't think I've Obama express it that way (none / 0) (#129)
    by Florida Resident on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:46:20 AM EST
    95% 5%/  My question is based on a lot of what I've seen coming out of his campaign.  Also in his willingness to use Republican Tactics for political gain, something that is not new for him.

    [ Parent ]
    Ralph Nader is right (none / 0) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:02:52 AM EST
    you know what.
    I think Nader is going to emerge as a real threat this cycle in a way he has not been since 2000.
    particularly if it is not a Hillary/Obama Obama/Hillary ticket.
    if not there are going to be a lot of pissed off democrats looking for a place to go besides McCain.
    I am honestly starting to think it is the only way we will win in November.


    [ Parent ]
    oh, puleeze (none / 0) (#46)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:12:22 AM EST
    No differences?  Between Obama and McCain?

    For starters:

    One represents getting out of Iraq, the other represents staying in for 100 years.

    One represents the same tired old economic solution for everything: "cut taxes, no matter what the problem is cutting taxes will solve it."  The other does not.

    One represents a health care plan (even if it not universal, it's 100 light years ahead of where we are now), one doesn't want government involvement at all and that the private sector should figure it out.

    I think the public will be plenty aware of differences.  

    [ Parent ]

    I laugh (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:18:57 AM EST
    at your assurance about Obama's positions, because he has a different position depending on who he's talking to.

    Realistically, nobody will get us out of Iraq, especially Obama.  Obama doesn't want to own what's going to happen when we get out.  

    If we have a Democrat-heavy Congress, then McCain won't pass his tax cuts.  Besides that, a lot of the folks who will think there are few differences between McCain and Obama, also will think tax cuts are a good thing.

    And the health care thing?  LOL!  Obama threw that one under the bus with his Harry and Louise ads.  If you don't think his own ads have prevented any form of healthcare from passing, think again.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama is not taking us out of Iraq. (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by sancho on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:25:26 AM EST
    No American president is. Obama would be better than McCain. And a democrate would be better than both of them.

    [ Parent ]
    it is very interesting (none / 0) (#54)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:15:12 AM EST
    that he is rated as the most liberal senator.
    one can only hope we are seeing a rope a dope.
    and that we are not the dope.

    [ Parent ]
    The only people who rate him (none / 0) (#61)
    by Florida Resident on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:17:00 AM EST
    liberal are the extreme right.

    [ Parent ]
    Actually... no. (none / 0) (#82)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:21:50 AM EST
    You can look here.

    But again... that is not "liberal" as much as "more liberal" than others.

    [ Parent ]

    not true -- the facts say otherwise (none / 0) (#120)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:41:37 AM EST
    • Americans for Democratic Action gave him 100 rating
    • Children's Defense Fund, 100
    • League of Conservation Voters, 95
    • NARAL, 100

    So, it is not true that "the only people who rate him liberal are the extreme right."

    HRC, btw, got those very same scores.

    Can we please not late our hatred of candidates blind us to facts?

    (Source of the above)

    [ Parent ]

    This organiztions rate for their own reasons (none / 0) (#143)
    by Florida Resident on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:55:43 AM EST
    and also do not necessarily take No Votes as bad votes.  Sorry but when I read and talk to long time Liberals the rate them both as centrist.  These people gave Bill Nelson a rating in the of 81% and after hearing speak and watch some of legislative actions he is as liberal as Bush.  Not much there to convince me he is a Liberal.

    [ Parent ]
    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by kmblue on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:58:12 AM EST
    This has been another edition of
    "what Obama Really Meant"

    no, he meant what he said (none / 0) (#63)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:18:28 AM EST
    Is it so hard to understand that he's saying the the GOP is not 100% stupid on every issue always?

    It is ironic to the extreme that people who criticize Obama followers for thinking he's the messiah, and now they are acting like the Democratic party is the messiah.

    Nobody's perfect.  Not Obama, not Clinton, not me, not the Dem party.  A little acknowledgment of that can go a long way.

    Last I checked, hubris often leads to a downfall.

    [ Parent ]

    It is very hard to see that (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:20:11 AM EST
    Since he did not say that.

    [ Parent ]
    English and Math? (none / 0) (#123)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:43:45 AM EST
    doesn't "not have a monopoly" mean "not 100%"?

    And if one party has "not 100%", doesn't that mean the other party has "more than 0%"?

    [ Parent ]

    as he is so freakin fond (none / 0) (#126)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:45:09 AM EST
    of pointing out.
    words matter.

    [ Parent ]
    this is something (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:59:32 AM EST
    Morning Hoe Scarboro talks about this almost every morning.
    how republicans like Obama because he is just such a nice guy and he doesnt talk about republicans like all those other filthy democrats do.
    you know, like mentioning all the vile, underhanded, dirty crap that is the republican stock and trade.

    when are the Obama supporters going to understand? (5.00 / 4) (#18)
    by desmoinesdem on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:59:38 AM EST
    Their candidate is simply not making any case for Democrats or progressives--ever. Why do they think he will go to the mat for us if he is elected?

    He couldn't be telegraphing more clearly that he is going to try to play the compromiser standing above both parties.

    in a GE and work our butts off for a progressive Democratic Congress to  negotiate against Obama and the GOP.

    [ Parent ]
    First time I think I've heard that (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:22:03 AM EST
    from you.

    Do you really think orangites are going to ignore their lord and savior?

    I think this is a "what you mean 'we'?" situation.

    [ Parent ]

    Of course they will not (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:29:58 AM EST
    They will ignore the Congressional races.

    Not the FP, but the diaries will.

    [ Parent ]

    Amen and May (none / 0) (#31)
    by Florida Resident on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:07:42 AM EST
    your words be prophecy.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama and the GOP? (none / 0) (#41)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:10:34 AM EST
    Funny.

    Once again... Obama has a long record of progressive voting and progressive policy.

    We will NOT be seeing a fight between progressive Dems and Obama.

    [ Parent ]

    Oh yes we will (5.00 / 5) (#55)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:15:46 AM EST
    Why? Because Obama has set himself up as the honest broker between Dems and the GOP. He will not be on the Dem side or the GOP side. He will be the great compromiser. The honest broker.

    Some USED to call that triangulation.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm going to stop.... (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:24:52 AM EST
    ...trying to give you a 5 for everything you say but you are really on a roll with this thread!!

    [ Parent ]
    I imagine (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Kathy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:06:49 AM EST
    his strategy is to win the nomination by recruiting repubs into his cadre, then spend the ge trying to win dems by insisting all that other stuff he said was just politickin'.  You know, like the CTV story that still insists he did this with Canada and NAFTA.

    This dem has a long memory.

    [ Parent ]

    Thats a losing strategy (none / 0) (#220)
    by Virginian on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:38:35 AM EST
    Convince the people that don't vote in your primary to support you when it doesn't count, then flip on them and try to convince your base to vote for you when it does?

    I REALLY hope thats not his strategy...if it is, my worries about the GE just got bigger.

    [ Parent ]

    What part of ....... (5.00 / 2) (#148)
    by sara seattle on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:58:30 AM EST
    Republican co-operating with Democrats in Congress have I missed??

    On what planet will Republican roll over and play dead and play with Obama - just because he thinks that will happen

    That is it in a nutshell -- it will not happen - which is why we need more Democrats in Congress - enough to cut through any filibusters.

    Obama's happy talk is not going to get Universal Healthcare passed

    Get a grip.

    [ Parent ]

    Strawman Obama (5.00 / 5) (#33)
    by cal1942 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:08:31 AM EST
    "Her natural inclination is to draw a picture of Republicans as people who need to be crushed and defeated," Obama said ..."

    Sounds a bit strawmanish to me.

    Big of him to say "It's not entirely her fault ..."

    Incredible that so many of his supporters miss his penchant for setting up strawman arguments and taking cheap shots.

    This guy is breaking every cardinal rule of party building by using commentary on a fellow Democrat that's worthy of a Maureen Dowd and implying that the other side is virtuous. He's forgotten his guy Ronald Reagan's eleventh commandment to never criticize a fellow party member.  

    To date his campaign seems to want to confirm the George Wallace dictum that 'there's not a nickle's worth of difference ..."

    who need to be crushed and defeated (none / 0) (#43)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:11:47 AM EST
    I dont have a problem with this

    [ Parent ]
    Rank and file republicans are not evil (none / 0) (#60)
    by cannondaddy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:16:55 AM EST
    just wrong.  You will never be able to change their minds if you refuse to even hear what they are saying.  

    (Republican party leadership is evil.)

    [ Parent ]

    You disagree with Obama (none / 0) (#64)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:18:38 AM EST
    He does not believe GOP leadership is bad. That's the point.

    [ Parent ]
    Really? (none / 0) (#162)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:05:41 AM EST
    Then why is he not running on their platform, with their positions?Oh, I get it.....he is saying that Republican Leaders are not bad just what they do is bad.  

    [ Parent ]
    He hates the Sin not the Sinners (none / 0) (#175)
    by Florida Resident on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:10:02 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Where? (none / 0) (#184)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:13:17 AM EST
    Please tell me where he said this.

    [ Parent ]
    Sorry but the kind of talk I have heard (none / 0) (#79)
    by Florida Resident on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:21:31 AM EST
    from his Campaign will not necessarily help him get rank and file republicans.

    [ Parent ]
    A Tactic that seems to entice Republicans (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by kenoshaMarge on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:16:15 AM EST
    will alienate the base. That would be us low-information, poorly educated, old, white, women, who support Hillary Clinton and do want to see the Republicans and the Democrats that have done such damage to our country crushed, defeated, and sent packing.

    We don't want to hear Reagan Praised or to condescendingly be told that,
     

    "I'm not a person who believes any one party has a monopoly on wisdom," Obama said.
    Don't remember Hillary Clinton ever saying that only Democrats have wisdom as Obama seems to be suggesting by his rhetoric.

    Show us some Republicans with integrity and concern for the people of this country and not just for their party and we'll be content to see Democrats work with them.

    only Democrats have wisdom (none / 0) (#80)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:21:33 AM EST
    yeah
    its funny
    once it was Hillary who was being criticized for working across the isle.
    oddly by most of the same people who are now wetting their pants over Obamas wonderful "outreach".

    [ Parent ]
    Hillary defends Democrat ideas and (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by MarkL on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:27:38 AM EST
    policies; Obama does not.


    [ Parent ]
    Republicans disgusted with Bush (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by kmblue on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:19:57 AM EST
    don't need courting.
    But Democrats who doubt Obama will
    fight for them do.

    Forgot to say (none / 0) (#75)
    by kmblue on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:20:51 AM EST
    in my opinion.

    [ Parent ]
    don't need courting? (none / 0) (#102)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:30:22 AM EST
    OK, perhaps they don't need courting.

    But they don't need insults, either.  To say "GOP is utterly stupid and wrong on every single thing" doesn't seem very wise.

    [ Parent ]

    You accept then that (none / 0) (#105)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:34:17 AM EST
    Obama will not be arguing that Dems are better than Republicans? Except for himself of course.

    [ Parent ]
    Please don't put words in my mouth (none / 0) (#133)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:49:24 AM EST
    I never, and in no way, said that "Obama will not be arguing that Dems are better than Republicans"

    There is a difference between "usually" and "a monopoly"

    A party can be better than the other party and still not have a monopoly on wisdom.  Is that so hard to comprehend?

    [ Parent ]

    Got a quote where he says they are better? (none / 0) (#138)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:52:50 AM EST
    Indeed, do you know what issues Obama believes Republicans have been wise about?

    [ Parent ]
    Yes. (none / 0) (#182)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:12:12 AM EST
    He thought Tom Coburn was right about some of the complaints about Earmarks.  He convinced Coburn that even though Obama disagreed that all earmarks were evil, that Coburn would be happy with, at the least, exposing earmarks, by requiring the Govt to create a publically web-accessible database.

    He thought Nunn-Lugar (nuclear non-prolif) was a good idea, and went to Lugar to see if they could expand the bill to cover non-nuclear weapons.  He obviously thought Lugar had wisdom on this.

    [ Parent ]

    Gosh, you're right (none / 0) (#125)
    by ChrisO on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:45:06 AM EST
    I couldn't believe it when Hillary said the "GOP is utterly stupid and wrong on every single thing." What was she thinking? I seem to have lost the link to that speech of hers. Do you think you could provide it?

    [ Parent ]
    Please don't put words in my mouth (none / 0) (#139)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:53:15 AM EST
    I never said, nor intended to imply that Hillary said "GOP is utterly stupid and wrong on every single thing."

    What I am saying is this:

    Logically speaking, the negation of the sentence "no party has a monopoly on wisdom" is "one party is utterly and completely without any wisdom"

    This is just pure logic, right?

    Let me say it again.  You either believe that:

    • no party has a monopoly on wisdom; or
    • one party is utterly and completely without any wisdom

    They are complements of each other.

    So, if you reject the first, you are accepting the second.  And vice versa.

    Obama rejected the first.  Everyone here is criticizing him for it.  Those who think Obama is wrong, therefore, must believe the second statment.

    [ Parent ]

    Thankfully real life is not semantics. nt (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:56:06 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    We're talking about what Obama actually (none / 0) (#158)
    by kmblue on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:04:11 AM EST
    said.
    And is out there.

    Your and mindfulmission's frantic spinning of his words doesn't alter their meaning.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm not spinning his words. (none / 0) (#171)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:08:25 AM EST
    And I'm not being frantic. What I've actually said in this thread is that Obama is spinning Hillary's words. Because if he says that he is not a person that believes that wisdom resides in only one party, then he clearly must be saying that there are some people who do believe that...and then he went on to talk about Hillary Clinton so I guess logically I can assume he meant her...but when did she say that? You tell me?

    [ Parent ]
    so, when I explain Obama's words (none / 0) (#189)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:14:51 AM EST
    I am spinning them.

    But when you explain them as a criticism of Hillary, you are not spinning them?

    You are guessing that he is talking about Hillary.

    I am guessing that he is sending a message to GOP voters.

    I am spinning and you're not?

    Perhaps we have a genuinely different point of view?

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry Maria I didn't mean you. (none / 0) (#215)
    by kmblue on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:25:07 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    unions and civil liberties organizations (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:25:52 AM EST
    are whores who want to endorse a winner.
    most of them are far more concerned about clinging to power than helping their membership.
    i.e. the Human Rights Campaign will never get another penny from me.


    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by ChrisO on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:49:37 AM EST
    I think it's silly to assume that anyone who endorsed Obama after Wisconsin (see: SEIU; John Lewis) is acting from some sort of ideological motive.

    [ Parent ]
    in the case of Lewis (none / 0) (#136)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:52:00 AM EST
    and other elected superdelegates I think it could have as much to do with possible primary challenges.


    [ Parent ]
    SEIU ... (none / 0) (#173)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:09:21 AM EST
    ... endorsed before Wisconsin.

    [ Parent ]
    They endorsed on Feb 14 (none / 0) (#193)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:15:11 AM EST
    hardly a statement of their convictions....more a bandwagon jumping.

    [ Parent ]
    Again... (none / 0) (#206)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:19:05 AM EST
    SEIU was split early between Obama and Edwards.  Once Edwards dropped out, the International was able to endorse Obama.

    There was very little consideration of endorsing Clinton.

    [ Parent ]

    AND... (none / 0) (#181)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:11:46 AM EST
    SEIU didn't have a hard time choosing between Obama and Clinton.

    They couldn't endorse early because the vote was split, mostly between Obama and Edwards.

    [ Parent ]

    Hillary has (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by pavaoh on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:39:14 AM EST
    proven she can show respect to republicans and work with them where she can without giving up her core beliefs.  I remember the ninties and the things that were said on a daily basis.  She went to the Senate and dispite their treatment earned their respect.  Senator Brownback said he had to offer his apologies for things he said because she wasn't the person they made her out to be.  She has done what Obama claims only he will do.

    This is one of the things (5.00 / 5) (#121)
    by ChrisO on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:42:03 AM EST
    that has really been bugging me about Obama. He's trying so hard to pander to the voters that he actually reinforces the notion that the Democrats and Republicans are equally responsible for the nasty tone in Washington. And please, the idea that it's only possible to oppose his approach if you can assert that the Dems have never done anything wrong is just silly. His statement that no one party has a monopoly on wisdom is hardly the sum total of what he's saying, and latching onto an absolutist word like "monopoly" is just cheap high school debating team tactics.

    As others have pointed out, how exactly is he going to include the Republicans in promoting a progressive agenda? Are a bunch of Republican legislators suddenly going to switch positions and become pro-choice, or support raising the minimum wage, because Obama just makes them feel so darn good? I don't think it's necessary to demonize the Republicans in the campaign but I could give a shit if their needs are met. They have shown no hesitation in kicking around the Dems, impugning their patriotism and demogoguing them in every way imaginable. They had their chance to get along, and weren't interested. Tom DeLay hasn't been out of office that long, that we need to suddenly act like it's a new day. The way Pat Roberts chumped the Dems on Phase 2 of the intelligence report (although admittedly Jay Rockefeller didn't put up much of a fight) made it clear that the only way to deal with the Republicans was to kick their ass. Hillary has shown an ability to work across the aisle, so Obama's not so subtle depiction of her as someone who only wants to oppose everything they do is inaccurate and scurrilous. I've never heard Hillary assert that only the Dems have good ideas, but that doesn't stop Obama from resorting to his typical strawman tactics. I don't expect her to declare war on the Republicans, but I think she's much better equipped to use the Presidency to advance the Democratic agenda.

    Obama supporters get so offended at being depicted as starry eyed followers, yet when they resort to rhetoric like "Obama will unite everyone" or "everyone will have a seat at the table," it's hard not to see more than a little naivete at work.

    BTW, this is my first post here. I haven't visited in a while, and it's refresshing to find a place that's not just endless Hillary haters and Obama apologists. I used to go to a lot of right wing blogs, especially during the Plame affair, and argue endlessly with people who were never going to agree with me, and rarely even tried to respond to factual arguments. I find many of the Obama supporters at TPM and HuffPo, particularly (I don't even bother going to Kos) to have a very similar approach in tone, whether they like it or not. They remind me a lot of right wing talk radio audiences, just waiting for another chance to be outraged. Only instead of accusing everyone with whom they disagree of being anti-American, or a terrorist lover, their epithets of choice are "Rovian," "slime" and "smear."

    TPM and HuffPo (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:44:15 AM EST
    try americablog if you really want to find some koolaid drinkers

    If we're nice to them, they'll agree with us! (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by sarahfdavis on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:02:39 AM EST
    As some one who Long ago worked (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by Florida Resident on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:07:38 AM EST
    as a Republican Organizer in California,  And one who still receives the Republican Correspondence and is invited to the Rallies and Meetings.  Let me explain a little about the Republican Mantra

                  You Have to Mobilize the Base

    As someone that used to work (5.00 / 2) (#203)
    by Practically Lactating on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:18:42 AM EST
    as a Dem organizer, that used to be our mantra as well.

    If he is already hedging in the primary, I am scared to see what happens in the GE.

    [ Parent ]

    how can you possibly want another clinton? (1.00 / 1) (#219)
    by desoeuvrement on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:33:03 AM EST
    how does one claim progressive politics and then side with a clinton?  bill clinton's presidency was disastrous: welfare "reform" that was catastrophic, "humanitarian" wars waged to liberalize economies, damaging free trade policies, the sham agreement he tried to foist on the palestinians as a "peace" settlement, and not to mention the conservative supreme court judges he appointed.  hillary will undoubtedly repeat bill's neoliberal economic agenda, absolutely fail to push through any health care reform (she receives the second highest amount of money from pharmaceutical companies), and she appears happy to forward the same american arrogance in foreign policy that characterized the past eight years.  

    obama is not the beacon of progressivism in american politics, but there are far more indications in what he has actually done that his presidency and his cabinet will be more to the left than whatever right/centrist collection of neoliberal opportunists that hillary will assemble.  

    Obama is reaching out to Republicans; (none / 0) (#2)
    by lindalawyer on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:46:30 AM EST
    So dont the Dems want to win in November?
    And BTW isnt it Obama who is more open to talks with Cuba? What did Hillary say---no talks with Rogue dictators. Trying to curry favor with the fanatics in South Florida.  I think that Obama's will woo some Reublicans who are fed up with the party and policies.  Alienated Republicans probably wont vote for Hillary. She tried to go along and vote for the war against Iraq. Shame on her.

    The best way to get GOP votes (5.00 / 4) (#40)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:10:15 AM EST
    is to agree with them. Do you advocate for that?

    Remember what Harry Truman said?

    [ Parent ]

    Hillary said she wouldn't pledge that SHE (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by litigatormom on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:11:18 AM EST
    would personally meet with rogue dictators in her first year in office. She DID say that she would authorize diplomatic contacts as a precursor to direct personal talks.

    I don't think that was pandering -- I think it was what she considered a more balanced approach to what she has always said is one of Bush's major mistakes: the refusal to talk on ANY level with countries who don't agree to capitulate before we talk to them.

    [ Parent ]

    For some Dems (1.00 / 1) (#30)
    by JJE on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:06:57 AM EST
    ideological purity is more important than winning elections.

    [ Parent ]
    Pissing off core democrats (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:09:59 AM EST
    using right wing talking points is NOT going to win elections.  

    And if it does?  Guaranteed, "progressives" like KOS and are going to have buyer's remorse, just as they have with all the other blue dogs they've helped.

    [ Parent ]

    Let's Get Along (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Athena on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:38:11 AM EST
    Oh, we're all just the same flawed human beings!  Happy, happy, clap, clap.

    Obama is already discarding ideology and policy - it's only February?

    Again, I repeat - Obama is a people-pleaser.

    [ Parent ]

    You mean... (none / 0) (#202)
    by ObamaMaMa on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:18:22 AM EST
    using right wing talking points is NOT going to win elections.  

    You mean like "The era of Big Government is over" ?

    [ Parent ]

    I am a partisan Democrat (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:11:30 AM EST
    This is not an ideological issue.

    It is a POLITICAL issue.

    IT is obvious that you do not understand my point at all.

    You are reduced to falsehoods to defend Obama.

    [ Parent ]

    I should have said partisan purity (none / 0) (#51)
    by JJE on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:14:08 AM EST
    But telling half the country they're stupid and evil remains a terrible election strategy.

    [ Parent ]
    Hillary is not telling half the country that... (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:20:05 AM EST
    ...they are stupid and evil. Obama is perhaps putting those words into her mouth. But please she never said it.

    [ Parent ]
    Desperately Seeking A Democrat (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by Athena on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:55:29 AM EST
    Would the Democratic Party consider nominating a........Democrat?  

    Clinton is still available.

    [ Parent ]

    Guilty (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:22:56 AM EST
    I am a partisan purist.

    Many of my blogging colleagues USED to be.

    My message has not changed since 2003.

    [ Parent ]

    I am a partisan purist. (none / 0) (#103)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:33:22 AM EST
    I mean this question seriously -- what does that mean?

    Because I'd be astounded if you believe what I think it means.

    Does it mean "my party is always right?"  You couldn't possibly mean that, could you?  The Dems have been folding under Bush pressure for a while (see: FISA, Patriot Act) . . . surely you don't think that was right, do you?

    [ Parent ]

    It means that I am sure (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:37:31 AM EST
    the country is in better hands when Democrats, NOT Republicans, are running it.

    This seems a difficult concept for you.

    Do you vote for Republicans often?

    [ Parent ]

    well, it seems we agree (none / 0) (#152)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:00:46 AM EST
    I agree that "the country is in better hands when Democrats, NOT Republicans, are running it."

    But that is completely different from saying that the GOP is utterly without any wisdom.

    Again, I will point to Jeralyn's comment of today.  She seems to think the GOP has the correct view on at least one issue (hate-crimes).

    Again, I agree that "the country is in better hands when Democrats, NOT Republicans, are running it." but that doesn't mean I think they are always right.  Those are two completely different issues. When Dems start talking about criminalizing hate speech, I think they are wrong (I'm a stauch 1st Amendment guy).  When Barry Goldwater was an early supporter of gays in the military, I thought he was right.  When William F Buckley, using right wing freedom principles, argued for decriminalization of marijuana, I thought he was right.

    I completely and utterly fail to see why "Democratic purist" is in any way in conflict with admitting that every once in a while the GOP has a decent idea.

    [ Parent ]

    Dem principles are the right ones (none / 0) (#137)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:52:40 AM EST
    is what it means. But no, clearly the party is not always right -- not when it follows the lead of those who do not uphold those principles.

    [ Parent ]
    i find it very interesting that many (none / 0) (#174)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:09:32 AM EST
    obama supporters often try and change the subject rather than admit their candidate has flaws. blind support is never a good thing.

    [ Parent ]
    Blind Support? (1.00 / 1) (#209)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:20:18 AM EST
    You must be blind because there are several HRC supporters here that fit your description of blind support.

    [ Parent ]
    now that's ironic! (none / 0) (#201)
    by A DC Wonk on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:18:06 AM EST
    Let's look at your two sentences:

    i find it very interesting that many obama supporters often try and change the subject rather than admit their candidate has flaws.

    That's ironic because Obama seems to be getting criticized here for saying exactly that about the Dem party.

    blind support is never a good thing.

    Agreed!  The Dems are usually right, not always.  As in "No party has a monopoly on wisdom", eh?

    [ Parent ]

    let's talk about the dems caving into repubs. (none / 0) (#212)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:23:10 AM EST
    that is a national tragedy. they tried going along and getting along. it is very clear what the results are. so here is obama wanting more of the same? duh! it answers itself.

    [ Parent ]
    and please stop using the term (none / 0) (#218)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:26:13 AM EST
    that's idiotic. i don't use terms like that for you. it is insulting. that doesn't fly on talk left.

    [ Parent ]
    Telling the truth is bad? (none / 0) (#159)
    by Marvin42 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:04:13 AM EST
    :)

    [ Parent ]
    Among things described as ideological purity: (5.00 / 3) (#164)
    by Ellie on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:06:44 AM EST
    The rule of law; the Constitution; other people's inalienable human rights ...

    Which of yours are you ante'ing up in the name of One Party "unity"?

    Which were offered up on the block lately against your will and without your prior permission?

    Pers