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The Obama Rules: Huff Po Style

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 04:39:52 PM EST
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By Big Tent Democrat

Speaking for me only.

When is mocking your opponent a good thing? According to HuffPo wire service selections, when you are Barack Obama. When is it a bad thing? According to Huff Po, when you are Hillary Clinton.

Yes, it is the Obama Rules again:
Any criticism of Obama's statements which do not take into account Obama's clarifications and explanations of what he REALLY meant are unfair personal attacks and the attacker is a "liar" who will say and do anything to get elected. . . . Obama's attacks are always fair and merited. . . .

More . . .

Classic from Huff Po. Defending Obama:

Humor is a tradition on the Las Vegas Strip and in presidential campaigns because it's a way to score a point without sounding too negative. President Bush used it to skewer John Kerry in 2004 as fancy and soft on terrorism, while Ronald Reagan was one of the best at wielding one-liners.

Attacking Clinton:

Hillary Clinton's campaign is on its last legs after suffering a string of defeats to her rival Barack Obama. Clinton made the decision to go negative in an effort to halt Obama's rising momentum. Today, Clinton was at a campaign rally in Providence, Rhode Island, and she mocked Obama and his message of hope and change in a very theatrical, over-the-top manner.

That's pretty fair no? According to the Obama Rules.

< Wolcott On The Malign Acceptance Of Sexism | Outrageous Attack On Obama's Patriotism >

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    The Obama Rules: Huff Po Style | 177 comments (177 topical)

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    What I think they don't realize (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by andgarden on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 04:44:30 PM EST
    is that the "Obama is SO last season" media narrative is starting to gel. IOW, the hype is burning off.

    Whether that will have any impact on the race at all is an open question: obama's money is substantial, and the political pundits are remarkably unhip.

    Yep (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by spit on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 04:54:30 PM EST
    I'm seeing the loss of coolness gaining steam, too. It's the trajectory these things always take.

    Which is good, honestly, regardless of the outcome. I'm just fine with him winning, but I'll feel a lot better about the whole thing if I feel like people aren't just jumping on a hip new bandwagon, and hopefully if the left broadly starts to display a little more understanding of the deal it's making.

    [ Parent ]

    Also the loss of underdog status (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Cream City on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:27:52 PM EST
    as the persecution complex is problematic if your candidate is the frontrunner.

    [ Parent ]
    I lost it (none / 0) (#142)
    by sara seattle on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 06:03:39 PM EST
    when I read that 14,000 people applauded Obama for blowing his nose -- they have come undone

    Shades of "The Life of Brian"

    [ Parent ]

    Unmerited self-esteem. (none / 0) (#155)
    by oculus on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 06:37:21 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    He's not the Messiah... (none / 0) (#181)
    by Rainsong on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:25:19 AM EST
    .. he's just a very naughty boy!

    [ Parent ]
    Right.. Republican pundits can't (none / 0) (#3)
    by MarkL on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 04:49:23 PM EST
    pretend to change their mind after the convention, or it's too obvious. Now that Obama is almost assured of the nomination, they're starting to express doubts. Brooks was at it this morning, for instance.

    [ Parent ]
    One reason is that he doesn't (none / 0) (#9)
    by MarkL on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 04:56:27 PM EST
    change his stump speech at all (so I have read).
    Reporters and pundits know this, and they'll get bored, even if the public doesn't.
    I assume that Hilllary does not give the same speech  ; since she is not a packaged product like Obama, there's no reason she would.

    [ Parent ]
    well, Obama is giving the identical (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by MarkL on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:42:44 PM EST
    speech in every state---or so I have read.
    Sure sounds like Bush-lite to me.

    [ Parent ]
    sounds like lots of bored reporters (none / 0) (#124)
    by Kathy on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:49:50 PM EST
    who have time to look at the audience with derision.

    I said two weeks ago that the press's love affair was quickly fading because they were no longer being coddled by the campaign.

    Simple politicking: don't make the press wait in line.  Make sure they've got coffee and donuts.  Don't deny them access or they will all write the same story, and it won't be flattering.

    [ Parent ]

    really? frankly, the obama supporters (none / 0) (#185)
    by hellothere on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 09:02:57 AM EST
    don't take the time to listen to hillary or study her proposals. you are an excellent example.

    [ Parent ]
    I wonder if Hillary's mocking of Obama (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by MarkL on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 04:45:04 PM EST
    will strike a chord with Democrats.
    I know that she is speaking to a big audience.
    There are millions of Democrats who think Obama is at best an ordinary candidate, and who think that Obama's ego is totally out of control as well.

    I saw the video and thought it was kind of funny (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by Daryl24 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 04:49:50 PM EST
    Just came from one blog where the majority of folks were acting like she had just foreclosed on an orphanage.

    I knew a lot of the liberal blogosphere didn't like her (understatement) but YIKES!!

    The thing most people ... (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 04:57:48 PM EST
    don't seem to get is that many men in the progressive blogosphere aren't just like other male Internet addicts, they're the same people.

    It's a few hours as a level 60 Mage in World of Warcraft, then a few hours on Dkos.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

    So why do they hate women?  Do I really need to answer that question?

    [ Parent ]

    i doubt you are correct. (none / 0) (#18)
    by MarkL on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:01:34 PM EST
    I am the typical demographic for a blog like DK:
    I have a Ph.D and I'm in my 40's.

    [ Parent ]
    You should look up the ... (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:05:30 PM EST
    demographics of World of Warcraft.  I think you'd fit right in.

    [ Parent ]
    lol.. really? Well, I don't play (none / 0) (#30)
    by MarkL on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:06:44 PM EST
    any of those games. I assumed people in their teens and 20s were playing.

    [ Parent ]
    Congrats on an extremely (none / 0) (#131)
    by oculus on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:54:23 PM EST
    polite and judicious reply.

    [ Parent ]
    Actually (none / 0) (#20)
    by Mystic55 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:03:12 PM EST
    Eve online is much cooler.

    And, as I said other places, you are not automatically a misogynist if you are male and support Obama just as much as you are not automatically a racist if you are white and support Sen. Clinton.

    [ Parent ]

    Obviously ... (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:08:09 PM EST
    but the Obama supporters who are sexist, are sexist.  

    And the fact that there are a lot of them in the progressive blogosphere who fall into this category really isn't a matter of debate anymore.

    [ Parent ]

    You're definitely right about that!! (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by MarkL on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:09:15 PM EST
    Aravosis is the most disappointing, since as a gay man he should have SOME sensitivity to sexism.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm just surprised (none / 0) (#78)
    by Nasarius on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:25:49 PM EST
    That after getting very, very angry (with good reason) at Obama over the whole McClurkin debacle, he seems to have forgotten it entirely.

    [ Parent ]
    He's always been uneven, but (none / 0) (#84)
    by MarkL on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:28:13 PM EST
    usually his irrational snits lasted only a few days.

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks for the random unsubstantiated slander (none / 0) (#39)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:09:07 PM EST
    While we're at it, why don't we consider why do people that support Clinton hate black people? Do I really need to answer that question? (this is snark btw).

    [ Parent ]
    People who support Clinton (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by andgarden on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:14:19 PM EST
    do not typically attack Obama by saying that he's behaving like a stereotypical black movie character.

    [ Parent ]
    So I take it ... (none / 0) (#50)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:14:49 PM EST
    your Mage hasn't gotten to level 60 yet?

    ;)

    [ Parent ]

    I don't even know what you're talking about (none / 0) (#58)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:16:47 PM EST
    so I guess not :'(

    [ Parent ]
    It was meant to reply ... (none / 0) (#82)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:27:46 PM EST
    to someone up thread, but a bunch of posts fell in between.  So my little humorous comment didn't work.

    [ Parent ]
    Link? (none / 0) (#26)
    by Kathy on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:05:57 PM EST
    Anyone have the link to this?

    I just read something troubling on Taylor Marsh--that TL has been targeted for its perceived pro-Clinton bias.  Is that correct?

    I am very troubled by the nasty tone out there.  I know Marsh gets lots of nasty emails (she posts them) but HERE?

    I thought we were safe here.

    Folks, if you've got it, donate money to TL to help keep them going and let them know that they have our support.  Nobody gets to play for free...

    [ Parent ]

    Donate to Hillary, too. (none / 0) (#37)
    by john5750 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:08:41 PM EST
    She is not financed by the GOP like Obama is.

    [ Parent ]
    News to me (none / 0) (#41)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:09:41 PM EST
    But I am always targetted.

    [ Parent ]
    Here is the link (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by Kathy on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:17:59 PM EST
    from Taylor Marsh

    Booman (Booman Tribune) has apparently taken on the role of Netroots Police and has deemed that Talk Left for the Clinton leanings probably shouldn't be trusted after the primaries are over, to "get back on board" for the general election.

    LINK

    [ Parent ]

    On Booman (none / 0) (#72)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:24:48 PM EST
    He is an old firend of mne. Seriously, We have been cursing each other out and calling each other idiots in e-mails for months now.

    We'll make up after this is over.

    [ Parent ]

    he's trashing me (none / 0) (#180)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:17:54 AM EST
    more than you. Very juvenile. Very unprogressive.

    [ Parent ]
    See also "Obama Blog Targets Talk Left" (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Cream City on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:25:42 PM EST
    at taylormarsh.com.

    [ Parent ]
    Hoping you and J don't get the kind of (none / 0) (#105)
    by oculus on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:39:28 PM EST
    e mail Digby posted recently.  I'd change e mail addresses if I had to wade through that.

    [ Parent ]
    one of the recent obama supporters (none / 0) (#186)
    by hellothere on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 09:07:33 AM EST
    who i no longer see on here had a post that looked like a threat to me. i even questioned it. the recent obama supporter who remains showed more courtesy and a willingness to debate most of the time.

    [ Parent ]
    That's because you don't understand the Obama Rule (none / 0) (#191)
    by kenoshaMarge on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 10:31:06 AM EST
    Obama says something negative about Hillary Clinton that is fair and nothing unusual in a campaign. Just Hunky Dory.

    Clinton says something negative about Obama and the Daffy Duck Brigade begins sputtering "Despicable". Or worse. Much, much worse!

    [ Parent ]

    I used to go there (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by glennmcgahee on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 04:51:55 PM EST
    I no longer read Huffpost and alot of other so-called progressive blogs. You have to wonder if they all hope that they will get donations from the youth vote people just like the newspapers are endorsing to get all the advertising dollars that Obama has accumulated. I also wonder if they don't care that they are losing 50% of the democratic electorate that is voting for Clinton. Do they think they are gonna get the right-wing people's donations that are skewing the vote towards Obama? If he is elected, how are they gonna explain his joining with Republicans and his support of Leiberman's re-election for all the bi-partisanship he is promising.

    The buyer's remorse will come (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 04:59:39 PM EST
    almost immediately after the election too. (if he wins, that is).

    Once the infatuation fades, they'll complain that he isn't progressive....well DUH, I could have told them that before they elected him!

    [ Parent ]

    This... (none / 0) (#16)
    by Mystic55 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:01:03 PM EST
    As compared to the buyer's remorse in future generations in which it becomes easier for other members of the Bush family run because they believe family ties matter more than issues?

    [ Parent ]
    It's that last part I worry about (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Daryl24 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:00:16 PM EST
    Isn't Lieberman supposed to be Obama's mentor?

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, Lieberman was Obama's mentor (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Cream City on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:29:29 PM EST
    in the Senate -- said to be by assignment, but Obama campaigned for Lieberman against the good guy in Connecticut in return.

    [ Parent ]
    So did Clinton (none / 0) (#91)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:31:17 PM EST
    Most of the major Dems campaigned for Lieberman in the primary. (Which is a failure of most of the party imo). Obama did not actively support Lieberman in the general.

    [ Parent ]
    Did he support Lamont in the general? (none / 0) (#97)
    by Florida Resident on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:34:50 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Yes (none / 0) (#102)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:38:22 PM EST

    HARTFORD, Conn. --Ned Lamont got a boost Thursday from one of the Democratic party's brightest rising stars, Sen. Barack Obama.

    The Illinois senator and potential 2008 presidential candidate sent an e-mail message to his Connecticut supporters urging them to rally behind Lamont's challenge to three-term Sen. Joe Lieberman.

    "Ned Lamont has waged an impressive grass roots campaign to give the people of Connecticut a choice in the November Senate election," Obama wrote. "Please join me in supporting Ned Lamont with your hard work on-the-ground in these closing weeks of the campaign." The Lamont camp said Obama's e-mail went to about 5,000 Connecticut residents.

    Lamont aides said they welcomed the support of Obama, who has enjoyed a surge in popularity in recent weeks as speculation about his national ambitions mounts.

    "He's a very credible, charismatic and inspiring politician," said senior Lamont adviser Tom D'Amore. "We're thrilled to have his support. Obama has also given $5,000 to Lamont's campaign through a political committee.

    "Ned Lamont and I share a commitment to bringing our troops home safely from Iraq, to achieving energy independence, to helping all our citizens realize the American dream, and to empowering the American people to reclaim their government," Obama wrote.

    link

    He didn't go all out for Lamont, and I wish he would have, but he did respect the results of the primary and support the Dem.

    [ Parent ]

    Hahaha that cracked (none / 0) (#31)
    by mg7505 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:06:49 PM EST
    me up because Lieberman has been campaigning with McCain (even while JM makes infamous statements). Making a decision between BO and JM will be harder than I thought!

    [ Parent ]
    well there will be new blogs that fill the gap. (none / 0) (#187)
    by hellothere on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 09:09:04 AM EST
    vacuums are always filled. and these "older" blogs will suffer. my answer, who cares! like i told countdown, i used to trust you, but no more.

    [ Parent ]
    I liked what she said (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Coldblue on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 04:55:17 PM EST
    Did she get advice from JRE on her visit with him?

    Now that is a very interesting speculation. (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by MarkL on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 04:57:20 PM EST
    A Hillary/Edwards ticket makes sense to me now.


    [ Parent ]
    Here's some speculation: (none / 0) (#46)
    by MarkL on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:11:25 PM EST
    suppose Edwards endorsed Hillary AND she said he would be her VP choice. Would that be enough to stop Obama?

    [ Parent ]
    imo, it would be difficult (none / 0) (#68)
    by Coldblue on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:23:10 PM EST
    for Edwards in that he was the first to take Hillary on for her accepting lobbyist money.

    I'm also not sure that Obama is stoppable at this point, although I hope I'm very wrong.

    [ Parent ]

    Well, the superdelegates can (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by MarkL on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:25:06 PM EST
    change their mind, if there is good reason to do so.
    Their purpose is to prevent the party from going off a cliff in its choice of nominee.

    [ Parent ]
    Yuck, I broke my own rule and went to (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by RalphB on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:25:24 PM EST
    HuffPo to read that piece.  The piece was bad enough but the comments were just sick.

    Who are those people?  

    hopefully Republican trolls and not (none / 0) (#87)
    by Florida Resident on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:29:38 PM EST
    Democrats

    [ Parent ]
    Unfortunately (none / 0) (#152)
    by sara seattle on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 06:22:01 PM EST
    it is Democrats -- of the Obama followers version/conversion

    [ Parent ]
    They are tabloid editorialists (none / 0) (#88)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:29:55 PM EST
    The credibility free zone.

    [ Parent ]
    The place is a festering sore (none / 0) (#107)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:41:17 PM EST
    I try to avoid it at all costs, and I'm an Obama supporter.

    [ Parent ]
    It's not just the politics section either (none / 0) (#125)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:49:59 PM EST
    that bothers me.

    It's nice to agree with you about something ;-).

    Have a good day.

    [ Parent ]

    One of the first links (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 06:03:08 PM EST
    in this post was to Obama talking about his really bad answer to the "what is your weakness" question.

    His answer proved to me that he's never had a legitimate job interview.  In job interviews, you're always asked that question.  But if you read good books on interviewing skills (What Color is your Parachute, etc), you should NEVER actually answer with a weakness.   You should always list a strength and pretend it's a weakness (e.g. I'm a workaholic, I'm too dedicated to my work and sometimes forget my family responsibilities, etc.).

    Imagine saying, "my weakness is I always lose my paperwork".  You wouldn't get the job.

    I think it's truly a mistake for Obama to bring that horrible moment in his campaign out in a stump speech.  It's going to get trounced by Repubs.

    Makes you wonder why Michelle (none / 0) (#148)
    by oculus on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 06:15:23 PM EST
    wouldn't accept a job offer until the interviewer met Barack.

    [ Parent ]
    Uh what? (none / 0) (#149)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 06:16:23 PM EST
    No, you should never answer with the "I like to work too much" response. That's in interviewing 101. The correct answer to what is your greatest weakness is that you have a small, minor weakness (maybe say scheduling or messy desk) but you've identified it and are taking proactive measures to make it better (to compensate, I've signed up for an alert system or make it a priority once a week to get things in order).

    [ Parent ]
    I disagree! (none / 0) (#158)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 06:46:20 PM EST
    So I guess we don't agree about everything!

    [ Parent ]
    Not so fast (none / 0) (#8)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 04:55:45 PM EST
    The Obama piece is by the AP off the wires (note the little AP next to the byline), and the headline uses the word mocking. Quibble with the AP if you want about the content.

    The HuffPo piece on Clinton asks if the readers think it is a good thing for her to mock him, without much editorializing.

    Bwahahaha!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 04:58:13 PM EST
    This is NOT editorializing?

    Hillary Clinton's campaign is on its last legs after suffering a string of defeats to her rival Barack Obama. Clinton made the decision to go negative</b? in an effort to halt Obama's rising momentum. Today, Clinton was at a campaign rally in Providence, Rhode Island, and she mocked Obama and his message of hope and change <b>in a very theatrical, over-the-top manner.

    Please Andrew, you a a nice commenter, but you just made a fool of yourself.

    [ Parent ]

    Hillary won all the BIG states (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by john5750 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:12:08 PM EST
    and she likely will win TX, OH, RI, PA, etc.

    Peole are starting to get sick of Obama's lies and repetition.

    [ Parent ]

    Do me a favor (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by flyerhawk on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:34:55 PM EST
    instead of just spamming the same smear how bout you back up your claims that Obama is a liar?

    [ Parent ]
    here's one, (none / 0) (#172)
    by kangeroo on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 08:25:29 PM EST
    particularly relevant to ohio.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm afraid that (none / 0) (#139)
    by mg7505 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 06:01:33 PM EST
    Hillary may not win the March 4th states. Not because of the media's nonsensical comparison of the Hillary/Giuliani firewall strategies. But because of what happened to HRC in Iowa, and the tightening of polls. Almost without exception this primary, when his numbers get that close they shoot right up.

    [ Parent ]
    So what happened in California? (none / 0) (#163)
    by diplomatic on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 07:01:45 PM EST
    What happened in Massachussetts?  What happened in New Jersey?  In all those states he was "closing" in the final days and even leading in the polls but it was actually Clinton who rebounded and won with solid margins.

    [ Parent ]
    It's the usual HuffPo line (none / 0) (#25)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:05:51 PM EST
    but it's not like they went on an extended soliloquy about it. Furthermore, it was an out-and-out editorial comment, so it's not like they're trying to subtly bias the news in Obama's favor. You're comparing that to an AP article off the wires, which I don't think is much of a comparison if you're trying to do the whole "Obama Rules" thing.

    The HuffPo is partisan in this race, news at 11; have they pretended otherwise? Jerome, Jeralyn, and Hillaryis44 are also partisan about this race, more news at 11.

    [ Parent ]

    IT is the usual Huff Po Line (none / 0) (#38)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:09:01 PM EST
    That is the problem Andrew.

    This is supposed to be what kind of coverage?

    [ Parent ]

    Do they pretend to be a news organization? (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:12:02 PM EST
    I thought your point about the "Obama Rule" was that he got more favorable coverage in traditional media.

    HuffPo is the opinion-fueled dumping ground for all second-rate pundits that can't make it onto the cable news, and has always been a cesspool. Saying that an editorial blurb written on there compared to an AP wire article proves anything seems a little silly to me.

    [ Parent ]

    Why yes they do (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:16:42 PM EST
    Tom Edsall, know who he is?

    [ Parent ]
    I know who he is (none / 0) (#64)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:20:59 PM EST
    when he writes there, does he pretend that it is dispassionate news or is it up front editorialism? And he's one of the very few decent commentators there out of the swamp of seemingly endless hacks.

    If you've got an AP article about Clinton's comment to compare to the AP article about Obama, then I think we can start to talk about "Obama Rules," or at least how you've defined it.

    [ Parent ]

    Both (none / 0) (#69)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:23:50 PM EST
    It depends.

    Huff Po is a hybrid.

    But so what really. You accept  then that this second story is utterly biased BS?

    [ Parent ]

    If they write about Clinton (none / 0) (#76)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:25:32 PM EST
    differently, then you've got some evidence. If they give Clinton the same pass, then no, it isn't biased.

    [ Parent ]
    Here's a misleading headline up since (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by oculus on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:46:18 PM EST
    yesterday:  Clinton Apologizes for Husband's Racist Remarks"

    HUFF POST

    [ Parent ]

    that is deplorable. (none / 0) (#173)
    by kangeroo on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 08:30:16 PM EST
    it's so irresponsible of the media to exploit racial tensions, and they've been doing it gleefully.  i'm really upset at the lot of them.

    [ Parent ]
    It is comforting to me that you (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:19:12 PM EST
    do not view Huff Po as a newswire.  Quick, yes, but those deceptive headlines and/or absolutely false headlines. I do enjoy Nora Ephron's thoughts and humor and Erica Jong's op eds, but I do wonder why they post there.    

    [ Parent ]
    I got to this bloq via Huffpo (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by Florida Resident on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:01:29 PM EST
    They have gotten in the habit of placing all the anti-clinton pieces in prominent places.  They also have allowed anti-Hillary or Pro-Obama Threads to remain posted longer than any Pro-Hillary piece.  I have yet to see any anti-Obama piece there (they might have been) and the general attitude of the commentaries there is like a piranha feeding frenzy when it comes to attacking Hillary and Bill Clinton.

    [ Parent ]
    The Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:03:09 PM EST
    pictures they pick are always horrid.  

    [ Parent ]
    I like this photo of Hillary and Bill... (none / 0) (#51)
    by john5750 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:15:16 PM EST
    http://www.drudgereport.com/hb1.jpg

    [ Parent ]
    And editors choose which wire service story to use (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:22:18 PM EST
    and how much of it.

    [ Parent ]
    Having seen (none / 0) (#14)
    by Mystic55 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:00:15 PM EST
    Many extraordinarily acidic anti Obama editorials on HuffingtonPost, I think you would be far more effective in your criticism if you mentioned specific people rather than the venue.

    BTW (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:21:45 PM EST
    The choice of wire service stories is an editorial choice.

    [ Parent ]
    This is their news coverage (none / 0) (#36)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:08:12 PM EST
    Excuse me. You need to acknowledge that.

    [ Parent ]
    When Obama (none / 0) (#21)
    by kid oakland on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:03:56 PM EST
    won 64% in Virginia, I asked, hypothetically, what it would take for you to analyze it at TalkLeft (BTD used MD exit polls to predict that the Potomac primary was actually bad news for Obama), winning with 70% of the vote??

    When Obama crosses 1,000,000 small donors, will that merit serious discussion about the implications?

    There are TalkLeft rules too. Some things don't get addressed but should, some things used to get addressed here but have fallen by the wayside.

    58% in Wisconsin. Winning by almost 200,000 votes in a state with favorable demographics to Clinton.

    Splitting the vote of women in Wisconsin, winning the vote of voters who make less than $50,000, winning registered Democrats 53 to 46%. Senator Feingold's vote.

    I mean this in all sincerity, these are real topics of substance that folks in our party are looking at and thinking about.

    Winning the vote of Democrats and popular vote totals were topics that were HOT TOPICS here just two weeks ago.

    At some point one or the other primary candidate has to win and we have to come together.

    Either candidate will face challenges in the general. I think we can all understand that.

    At some point Senator Clinton will either succeed or fail in the firewall strategy. We all know that. It could be sooner rather than later.

    Are her current tactics helping any of us? I don't happen to think so. And I think that you can lose Wisconsin the way she just did and then take such a divisive tone...190,000 votes in WI is a very big deal.  

    At some point, it has to register that the voters want change, and, with all due respect to the Senator from New York, the voters have so far decided that she is not the candidate they prefer.

    This is completely off topic and you know it (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:05:31 PM EST
    This comment will be deleted.

    Post it in the Open Thread.

    I will give you 10 minutes to cut and past your comment.

    [ Parent ]

    asking about the Talk Left rules (none / 0) (#34)
    by kid oakland on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:07:56 PM EST
    seems on topic to me at this point.

    [ Parent ]
    It's one of the most transparent (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by andgarden on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:09:59 PM EST
    attempts to change the subject that I've ever seen.

    [ Parent ]
    quote (none / 0) (#45)
    by kid oakland on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:11:23 PM EST
    There are TalkLeft rules too. Some things don't get addressed but should, some things used to get addressed here but have fallen by the wayside.

    [ Parent ]
    You're lucky that this (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by andgarden on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:15:18 PM EST
    is going to be deleted.

    [ Parent ]
    Use the Open Thread (none / 0) (#55)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:16:07 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Well (none / 0) (#53)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:15:43 PM EST
    I just told you the rules.

    Did you copy your comment yet?

    Put it in the Open Thread.

    [ Parent ]

    If you delete me here (none / 0) (#67)
    by kid oakland on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:23:10 PM EST
    when I am responding to you attacking Huff Post about the Obama rules...bringing up that there are Talk Left rules, too. Challenging you on that.

    And addressing Senator Clinton's rhetoric to boot.

    I would strongly disagree with that choice of action. It confirms a set of bad trends here, in my view.

    Blogging can be better than this. I am far from perfect, or even a long time member here, but I think, like any other reader here, I should be able to make a sincere blog comment without it being summarily deleted.

    [ Parent ]

    You should do that anyway (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:28:30 PM EST
    if you believe it.

    hell, write the DIARY HERE!!

    Frankly, if it was my blog I would invite you to write on the Front Page. I would love to debate this issue with you.

    It would be fun and illuminating.

    But NOT as an off topic comment in this thread.

    [ Parent ]

    Where is there a link (none / 0) (#94)
    by kid oakland on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:33:25 PM EST
    where you can write diaries here?

    I don't see it. Am I blind?

    [ Parent ]

    Actually (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:39:11 PM EST
    I have to ask Jeralyn to give you privileges. Sorry.

    I tell you what. Write it at your blog and I promise you I will link and quote as much as you allow me to in a FP post.

    This is a serious discussion and you and I have wildly divergent views here.

    [ Parent ]

    I thought I was missing a button (none / 0) (#112)
    by kid oakland on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:44:18 PM EST

    I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    [ Parent ]

    I know (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:45:10 PM EST
    It is what Jeralyn wants.

    I would be less sparing with the right to diary but as I say, it is not my blog.

    [ Parent ]

    Or you could e-mail it to me (none / 0) (#113)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:44:25 PM EST
    and I could post it for you as a Guest Post.

    [ Parent ]
    With respect (none / 0) (#136)
    by kid oakland on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:58:18 PM EST
    I think that's a fair offer but I'm not sure that's the right thing to do at this point.

    Why don't I just look for a better post to try to have this discussion in someday?

    I'm seriously not interested in being seen as threadjacking or becoming a controversial figure here.

    You saw this as a post about HuffPost I guess.

    [ Parent ]

    Come on (none / 0) (#147)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 06:08:50 PM EST
    I am ASKING you for the piece because I do want to air out this issue.

    I want you to have your say and I want my say to air it out.

    I think this issue goes beyond you and me.

    [ Parent ]

    honor sincerity? (none / 0) (#120)
    by Miss Devore on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:47:07 PM EST
    asking too much. all the blogs have unwritten rules, which are rationalized as ways of making some sort of quality product.

    that said, I have noticed from many old-timers on the blogs that a candidate who seems to be doing all those thangs bloggers fantasized about, is called into question. 50 state strategies, GOTV--no one gets out the vote the way Obama seems to be doing. And it isn't because of his affinity for the blogosphere. If it was,the Obama organization would encourage people to opinionate non-stop on blogs, and write incessant retorts to David Brooks or William Kristol.

    I say that, of course, as a highly valued member of this "community", and expect my comment to be deleted accordingly.

    [ Parent ]

    Heh (none / 0) (#130)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:53:22 PM EST
    Yes I am right in the sweet spot of the blogosphere right now Miss D. Everyone follow my lead on Obama.

    Actually, I am the one who is consistent in my desire for a Politics of Contrast.

    But you love Kos now right?

    [ Parent ]

    goddess no (none / 0) (#144)
    by Miss Devore on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 06:04:25 PM EST
    they've just been caught with their rants down, so to speak.

    blogs introduced a new form of passivity, to counter television. and heralded themselves as some great agent of change.

    one phrase of Markos' usually dreadful writing may make the MSM, but the fact that the blogs celebrated themselves before confronting the entire community of voters--th Yk thang "politicians realize they have to come to us" is one for the hubris files.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm insulted that you've missed (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Cream City on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:35:07 PM EST
    all the comments by Ben Masel, KenoshaMarge, myself and other Wisconsinites analyzing our primary here on this blog, in reply to diaries about it here.

    I'm just going to have to miss your comments here, too.

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry meant no offense (none / 0) (#118)
    by kid oakland on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:46:10 PM EST
    if you link to them I will read them.

    [ Parent ]
    A request for BTD (none / 0) (#22)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:04:43 PM EST
    Hi BTD,

    Would you mind fixing your italics tag in this post?  You've got an open tag without a corresponding closed tag.  It's turning the whole page into italics.

    The missing tag appears to be the closing bracket on the "/i" following your "By Big Tent Democrat" signature line..

    I have a migraine today, so the italics really hurt.  Of course, I could go lay down, but I'm a hopeless addict.

    Thank you.

    I'll check it (none / 0) (#28)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:06:12 PM EST
    Not showing for me.

    [ Parent ]
    Wierd (none / 0) (#43)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:10:04 PM EST
    It was there a minute ago (SWEAR!!!).  The whole page was in italics.  Now it's fixed.  

    Must be the magic of Talkleft (or maybe too much headache).

    Thanks very much anyway, you can delete this thread.

    [ Parent ]

    How about now? (none / 0) (#33)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:07:37 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    It's perfect, thank you ;-). (none / 0) (#44)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:10:31 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Please use the proper linking (none / 0) (#32)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:07:23 PM EST
    I have to delete this comment.

    Please try it again.

    its an honest criticsim of a narcissistic (none / 0) (#54)
    by sammiemorris on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:16:04 PM EST
    candidate whos wife claims he not only speaks the truth, but he KNOWS it as well.

    Whatever

    "My job is to be so persuasive that if there's anybody left out there who is still not sure whether they will vote, or is still not clear who they will vote for, that a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany ... and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama, the Democrat said in Hanover."

    Add that to what Robin Abcarian (none / 0) (#71)
    by oculus on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:24:24 PM EST
    included in her piece about Michelle Obama's efforts in South Carolina:

    At Glori Glori, a hair salon in Florence, S.C., she said she'd bumped into a young man earlier in the day who said he'd voted for Clinton. "Who on Earth will help you?" she said she told the young man. "If Hillary Clinton gets into office, I can envision what's gonna happen, and you can too!"


    [ Parent ]
    Michele Obama will be a huge (none / 0) (#80)
    by MarkL on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:27:11 PM EST
    liability for Obama in the GE---probably worse than Teresa Kerry.
    I have actually not seen one remark of hers which I find uplifting, but I've seen many snide put downs and delusional messianic comments about Barack.

    [ Parent ]
    The first time I heard here, she was (none / 0) (#89)
    by oculus on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:30:30 PM EST
    speaking to a group.  It was on C-Span.  She didn't use any notes, she was very direct in her comments, and I was quite impressed.  But that was b/4 NH.

    [ Parent ]
    Well, I only see the comments that (none / 0) (#92)
    by MarkL on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:31:46 PM EST
    are deemed newsworthy.

    [ Parent ]
    The problem is (none / 0) (#95)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:34:23 PM EST
    she is an outspoken, independent woman with her own opinions. Sometimes she says things that people here have disagreed with. But she's no push-over potential first lady.

    If that's the worst liability he has in the general, then I'm happy to fight for her.

    [ Parent ]

    Sometimes she says them twice (none / 0) (#104)
    by Cream City on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:39:17 PM EST
    as she did with her comment about not being proud of her country until now -- twice in Wisconsin, in both Milwaukee and Madison -- and then her husband had to say What the Other Obama Really Meant, as if the quote was a slip and not from a script.  That's just dishonesty, yet again.  

    [ Parent ]
    It's pretty clear what she meant from the context (none / 0) (#110)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:43:18 PM EST
    Trying to go after other Democrats by levying the insufficient patriotism card is not a road I think we really want to go down.

    Let's let the Republicans own the circular firing squad this election.

    [ Parent ]

    Ah, it was "just words"? (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Cream City on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:45:37 PM EST
    Soundbytes are how politics is done, with no opportunity for context.  Knowing that is one of the reasons why experience matters.

    [ Parent ]
    Really? (none / 0) (#127)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 05:51:22 PM EST
    So why is the better sound byte candidate losing? (yes, I know, media bias, irresponsible youth, rigged voting systems, etc. etc. etc.). But I thought experience was learning how to defeat those?

    [ Parent ]
    </